| DC209 ENDS -V&T - Githraine (Mar 11, 2009, 7:11 pm) |
Thanks Mike, Good map, a few issues, but I won't rehash them again.
Thanks all, it was real... um... real. 
From: MICHAEL BOUTOT <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com>
To: 209Thailand Trout former.trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com>; Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com>; Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com>; Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca>
Cc: 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com; cloudhurler77(at)yahoo.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 4:37:27 PM
Subject: DC209 ENDS -V&T
Congrats to Rob & Trout. Thanks to Andrew for being ready to come in if needed. I believe I have made the proper closing moves on the DC site. You guys really have it together there. I put a Versailles or SA 5.2 up on Cat23 a while ago just because that place has gotten pathetic. Non-starters. Maybe will post here or maybe wait until some folk wake up to the ages old wonder of wargames. Maybe I'll even learn 1830 to play Mr Sims' stuff. Acquire games continue to go on - very little time/wk if any. Not sure EOGs necessary after the latest flood of media but feel free anyway I do see some potential fixes to this 1 but won't work hard on it until I am sure I will run it again. Been fun.
Mike B[Reply] |
| DC209 ENDS -V&T - vegas_iwish (Mar 11, 2009, 4:38 pm) |
Congrats to Rob & Trout. Thanks to Andrew for being ready to come in if needed. I believe I have made the proper closing moves on the DC site. You guys really have it together there. I put a Versailles or SA 5.2 up on Cat23 a while ago just because that place has gotten pathetic. Non-starters. Maybe will post here or maybe wait until some folk wake up to the ages old wonder of wargames. Maybe I'll even learn 1830 to play Mr Sims' stuff. Acquire games continue to go on - very little time/wk if any. Not sure EOGs necessary after the latest flood of media but feel free anyway I do see some potential fixes to this 1 but won't work hard on it until I am sure I will run it again. Been fun.
Mike B[Reply] |
| DC209 ENDS -V&T (dc209) Githraine Mar 11, 07:11 pm |
Thanks Mike, Good map, a few issues, but I won't rehash them again.
Thanks all, it was real... um... real.
From: MICHAEL BOUTOT <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com>
To: 209Thailand Trout former.trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com>; Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com>; Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com>; Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca>
Cc: 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com; cloudhurler77(at)yahoo.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 4:37:27 PM
Subject: DC209 ENDS -V&T
Congrats to Rob & Trout. Thanks to Andrew for being ready to come in if needed. I believe I have made the proper closing moves on the DC site. You guys really have it together there. I put a Versailles or SA 5.2 up on Cat23 a while ago just because that place has gotten pathetic. Non-starters. Maybe will post here or maybe wait until some folk wake up to the ages old wonder of wargames. Maybe I'll even learn 1830 to play Mr Sims' stuff. Acquire games continue to go on - very little time/wk if any. Not sure EOGs necessary after the latest flood of media but feel free anyway I do see some potential fixes to this 1 but won't work hard on it until I am sure I will run it again. Been fun.
Mike B |
| DC209 status - vegas_iwish (Mar 09, 2009, 3:47 pm) |
| if no word of change heard by days end will post for new Phillipine. Penguin has already heard (although he should have heard&responded about Gettysburg, Chickamauga, Napoleon, Flying Circus (all educational for students) & did not) so he is aware. [Reply] |
| DC209 W09 3/13 NEXT - jason4747 (Mar 06, 2009, 7:27 pm) |
Excellent - from bad to worse to bonehead. Apologies Mike, I overlooked my removal. I just totally missed it.
Jason
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 08:18:22 -0800
From: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com
Subject: DC209 W09 3/13 NEXT
To: former.trout(at)gmail.com; jason4747(at)hotmail.com; mike(at)southwall.com; rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca
CC: githraine(at)yahoo.com; zeclient(at)hotmail.com; salexander37(at)gmail.com; stevelytton(at)hotmail.com; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Waited extra days...
Indonesia:
Defaults, removing F Ked
Thailand:
Build F Ban
Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync. Check it out.[Reply] |
| DC209 W09 3/13 NEXT - vegas_iwish (Mar 06, 2009, 10:19 am) |
Waited extra days...
Indonesia:
Defaults, removing F Ked
Thailand:
Build F Ban[Reply] |
| DC209 W09 3/13 NEXT (dc209) jason4747 Mar 06, 07:27 pm |
Excellent - from bad to worse to bonehead. Apologies Mike, I overlooked my removal. I just totally missed it.
Jason
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 08:18:22 -0800
From: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com
Subject: DC209 W09 3/13 NEXT
To: former.trout(at)gmail.com; jason4747(at)hotmail.com; mike(at)southwall.com; rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca
CC: githraine(at)yahoo.com; zeclient(at)hotmail.com; salexander37(at)gmail.com; stevelytton(at)hotmail.com; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Waited extra days...
Indonesia:
Defaults, removing F Ked
Thailand:
Build F Ban
Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync. Check it out. |
| DC209 A09 ADJS WED - vegas_iwish (Mar 03, 2009, 11:03 am) |
Jason was not late. Internet outage last night. Adjs tomorrow.
Indonesia:
F Jav - Bal
Adjustments:
Australia: Supp 0 Unit 0 Build 0
China: Supp 0 Unit 0 Build 0
Indonesia: Supp 6 Unit 7 Remove 1
Malaysia: Supp 1 Unit 1 Build 0
Philippines: Supp 7 Unit 7 Build 0
Thailand: Supp 11 Unit 10 Build 1
Vietnam: Supp 8 Unit 8 Build 0[Reply] |
| DC209 F09 CJA HAS COASTS - roback80 (Mar 03, 2009, 8:54 am) |
Really? Misorder again??!!?? Jason, c'mon man its been several turns in a row that you cannot seem to get it right. And each time you mess up you let Trout farther and farther in behind you... almost beginning to think you are throwing the game to him...
Anyhow... as for an extra room Vegas, I would offer it if I had... you can occupy the floor for a while if needs be... hope for your sake it doesn't come to that!!
From: MICHAEL BOUTOT <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com>
To: 209Thailand Trout former.trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com>; Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com>; Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com>
Cc: 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 9:25:48 AM
Subject: DC209 F09 CJA HAS COASTS
Still does. That is why there is a hold for F Jak. The real deal is loss of Jav. Indonesian F Jav can retreat to NIO or Bal or SlS or Slw or BaS
or ETi or WTi or CJa(nc).
rets due Mon. Meanwhile V has 2 fleets sitting in port. BTW if all the insurance cos are put out of business by market fall + Bankruptcy judges being allowed to cramdown mortgages I will be wiped out so someone start clearing an extra room..
Indonesia:
F And - Ked
F TiS - SIO
F Jav Supports F Jak - CJa(nc) (*Dislodged*)
F Jak Hold
F Med - And (*Bounce*)
A Bal - Sab
A Kuc Supports F Bru
Malaysia:
F Bru Supports A Bal - Sab
Philippines:
F NPS - SCS (*Fails*)
F SuS Supports F Ceb - SSe
F BaS - SPS
F Ceb - SSe (*Fails*)
A Man Hold
F Luz Supports F NPS - SCS
F Tai Supports F NPS - SCS
Thailand:
F GTh Supports F MSe
F MSe Convoys A KBh - WKa
F MSt - Jav
F SIO - PHe
F Sur Supports F MSt - Jav
F Sin Supports F MSt - Jav
A KBh - WKa
A KLu Supports F Sin
A Bur Hold
F Tha(wc) - And (*Bounce*)
Vietnam:
F SCS Convoys A HKo - Sab
F SSe Convoys A HKo - Sab
F GTo Hold
F ViS Supports F SCS
F SpI Supports F SSe
F Sai Hold
A HKo - Sab (*Fails*)
F Guz Supports F SCS
Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail [Reply] |
| DC209 F09 CJA HAS COASTS - vegas_iwish (Feb 28, 2009, 9:26 am) |
Still does. That is why there is a hold for F Jak. The real deal is loss of Jav. Indonesian F Jav can retreat to NIO or Bal or SlS or Slw or BaS
or ETi or WTi or CJa(nc).
rets due Mon. Meanwhile V has 2 fleets sitting in port. BTW if all the insurance cos are put out of business by market fall + Bankruptcy judges being allowed to cramdown mortgages I will be wiped out so someone start clearing an extra room..
Indonesia:
F And - Ked
F TiS - SIO
F Jav Supports F Jak - CJa(nc) (*Dislodged*)
F Jak Hold
F Med - And (*Bounce*)
A Bal - Sab
A Kuc Supports F Bru
Malaysia:
F Bru Supports A Bal - Sab
Philippines:
F NPS - SCS (*Fails*)
F SuS Supports F Ceb - SSe
F BaS - SPS
F Ceb - SSe (*Fails*)
A Man Hold
F Luz Supports F NPS - SCS
F Tai Supports F NPS - SCS
Thailand:
F GTh Supports F MSe
F MSe Convoys A KBh - WKa
F MSt - Jav
F SIO - PHe
F Sur Supports F MSt - Jav
F Sin Supports F MSt - Jav
A KBh - WKa
A KLu Supports F Sin
A Bur Hold
F Tha(wc) - And (*Bounce*)
Vietnam:
F SCS Convoys A HKo - Sab
F SSe Convoys A HKo - Sab
F GTo Hold
F ViS Supports F SCS
F SpI Supports F SSe
F Sai Hold
A HKo - Sab (*Fails*)
F Guz Supports F SCS[Reply] |
| DC209 F09 CJA HAS COASTS (dc209) roback80 Mar 03, 08:54 am |
Really? Misorder again??!!?? Jason, c'mon man its been several turns in a row that you cannot seem to get it right. And each time you mess up you let Trout farther and farther in behind you... almost beginning to think you are throwing the game to him...
Anyhow... as for an extra room Vegas, I would offer it if I had... you can occupy the floor for a while if needs be... hope for your sake it doesn't come to that!!
From: MICHAEL BOUTOT <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com>
To: 209Thailand Trout former.trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com>; Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com>; Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com>
Cc: 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 9:25:48 AM
Subject: DC209 F09 CJA HAS COASTS
Still does. That is why there is a hold for F Jak. The real deal is loss of Jav. Indonesian F Jav can retreat to NIO or Bal or SlS or Slw or BaS
or ETi or WTi or CJa(nc).
rets due Mon. Meanwhile V has 2 fleets sitting in port. BTW if all the insurance cos are put out of business by market fall + Bankruptcy judges being allowed to cramdown mortgages I will be wiped out so someone start clearing an extra room..
Indonesia:
F And - Ked
F TiS - SIO
F Jav Supports F Jak - CJa(nc) (*Dislodged*)
F Jak Hold
F Med - And (*Bounce*)
A Bal - Sab
A Kuc Supports F Bru
Malaysia:
F Bru Supports A Bal - Sab
Philippines:
F NPS - SCS (*Fails*)
F SuS Supports F Ceb - SSe
F BaS - SPS
F Ceb - SSe (*Fails*)
A Man Hold
F Luz Supports F NPS - SCS
F Tai Supports F NPS - SCS
Thailand:
F GTh Supports F MSe
F MSe Convoys A KBh - WKa
F MSt - Jav
F SIO - PHe
F Sur Supports F MSt - Jav
F Sin Supports F MSt - Jav
A KBh - WKa
A KLu Supports F Sin
A Bur Hold
F Tha(wc) - And (*Bounce*)
Vietnam:
F SCS Convoys A HKo - Sab
F SSe Convoys A HKo - Sab
F GTo Hold
F ViS Supports F SCS
F SpI Supports F SSe
F Sai Hold
A HKo - Sab (*Fails*)
F Guz Supports F SCS
Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail |
| DC209 S09 MORE STREET REPAIR - vegas_iwish (Feb 19, 2009, 10:29 pm) |
yup. Man hol(d)s again. Contrast that with the excitement of a major cavalry charge at Waterloo which we could be seeing. *sigh* P can change ret to sab if he wishes. Turns will be done on d/l if I can going forward whether Malay in or not. THURS NEXT
Indonesia:
F And - Tha(wc) (*Bounce*)
F SIO - TiS
F CJa(nc) - Jav
F Jak Supports F CJa(nc) - Jav
F Med - MSt (*Fails*)
A WKa - Bal
A Kuc Supports F Bru
Malaysia:
F Bru, no move received
Philippines:
F NPS Supports F Tai
F SSe Supports F Luz - SCS (*Dislodged*)RET CEB
F SuS Supports F SSe
F BaS Supports F CJa(nc) - Jav
A Man Hold
F Luz - SCS (*Fails*)
F Tai Supports F Luz - SCS
Thailand:
F GTh Supports F MSe
F MSe Supports F SCS - SSe
F MSt Supports F Tha(wc) - And (*Cut*)
F Jav - SIO
F Sur Supports F Jav - SIO
F Sin Supports F MSt
A KBh - Tha (*Bounce*)
A KLu Supports F Sin
A Bur - Tha (*Bounce*)
F Tha(wc) - And (*Fails*)
Vietnam:
F ECS - SCS
F SCS - SSe
F ViS Supports F ECS - SCS
F SpI Supports F SCS - SSe
F Sai Supports F MSe
F DNa - GTo
A HKo Hold
F Guz Supports F ECS - SCS[Reply] |
| DC209 map changed - vegas_iwish (Feb 16, 2009, 12:45 am) |
| as I have not put my house rules forward I have to change & have. If they were in force it would have stayed as was. [Reply] |
| DC209 W08 NEXT WED NEXT - FuzzyLogic (Feb 15, 2009, 10:04 pm) |
Just checking, are we going to correct this default removal?
-mike
From: MICHAEL BOUTOT [mailto:vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com]
Sent: Wed 2/11/2009 10:22 PM
Subject: DC209 W08 NEXT WED NEXT
Did not have them all yesterday at D/L then got tied up. Processing what I have now. Actually started changing some of the key spots to small letters (that fixed early similiar issues in earlier versions of Amed & worse Sengoku (worse because I don't have that geography in my head to just blow through it). As simple as taking the file into wordpad and changing but have to get all the connective places as well. Until I am sure I will make other changes to this (China & Australia cause the war by moving fleets to SCS & ARA eespectively + maybe sc moves if I can remember how) the effort seems not of great value this late in the game. Would use a file someone else fixes if they want to. If people would just play SSI wargames or SPI board 1s we would not have this trouble...
Indonesia:
Remove F TiS
Malaysia:
Defaults, removing F Bru
Thailand:
Build F Tha(wc)
Vietnam:
Build F DNa[Reply] |
| DC209 W08 NEXT WED NEXT - roback80 (Feb 12, 2009, 5:07 pm) |
Like letting a fight go to the judges...
From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com>
To: Jason K <githraine(at)yahoo.com>; MICHAEL BOUTOT <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com>; 209Thailand Trout former.trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com>; Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com>
Cc: 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 11:27:03 AM
Subject: RE: DC209 W08 NEXT WED NEXT
A unit in a center adjacent to a home center should stay, and the one not in a center (but also adjacent to a home center) should go. The rules for this game say this is the order:
[list=1:1ab74a4020] [*:1ab74a4020] Units furthest from the nearest home center before units closer to the nearest home center
[*:1ab74a4020]Units not in a supply center before units in a supply center if equidistant from home [/list :1ab74a4020]
[*]Fleets before armies if still no unique unit selected per above [*]Alphabetical [list=1:1ab74a4020][/list:1ab74a4020]
They are equal per (1), then (2) is the deciding line.
-mike
From: Jason K [mailto:githraine(at)yahoo.com]
Sent: Thu 2/12/2009 10:27 AM
To: MICHAEL BOUTOT; Michael Sims; 209Thailand Trout former.trout; Jason 4747
Cc: 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Subject: Re: DC209 W08 NEXT WED NEXT
Why under defaults would F Bru, sitting on an SC bordering a Home SC be disbanded before a unit on a Non SC adjacent to a Home SC?
From: MICHAEL BOUTOT <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com>
To: 158GMMike Sims <mike(at)southwall.com>; 209Thailand Trout former.trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com>; Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com>
Cc: 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 11:22:41 PM
Subject: DC209 W08 NEXT WED NEXT
Did not have them all yesterday at D/L then got tied up. Processing what I have now. Actually started changing some of the key spots to small letters (that fixed early similiar issues in earlier versions of Amed & worse Sengoku (worse because I don't have that geography in my head to just blow through it). As simple as taking the file into wordpad and changing but have to get all the connective places as well. Until I am sure I will make other changes to this (China & Australia cause the war by moving fleets to SCS & ARA eespectively + maybe sc moves if I can remember how) the effort seems not of great value this late in the game. Would use a file someone else fixes if they want to. If people would just play SSI wargames or SPI board 1s we would not have this trouble...
Indonesia:
Remove F TiS
Malaysia:
Defaults, removing F Bru
Thailand:
Build F Tha(wc)
Vietnam:
Build F DNa
Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr![Reply] |
| DC209 W08 NEXT WED NEXT - FuzzyLogic (Feb 12, 2009, 11:30 am) |
A unit in a center adjacent to a home center should stay, and the one not in a center (but also adjacent to a home center) should go. The rules for this game say this is the order:
[list=1:84156a985b] [*:84156a985b] Units furthest from the nearest home center before units closer to the nearest home center [*:84156a985b]Units not in a supply center before units in a supply center if equidistant from home
[*:84156a985b]Fleets before armies if still no unique unit selected per above [*:84156a985b]Alphabetical[/list:84156a985b]
They are equal per (1), then (2) is the deciding line.
-mike
From: Jason K [mailto:githraine(at)yahoo.com]
Sent: Thu 2/12/2009 10:27 AM
To: MICHAEL BOUTOT; Michael Sims; 209Thailand Trout former.trout; Jason 4747
Cc: 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Subject: Re: DC209 W08 NEXT WED NEXT
Why under defaults would F Bru, sitting on an SC bordering a Home SC be disbanded before a unit on a Non SC adjacent to a Home SC?
From: MICHAEL BOUTOT <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com>
To: 158GMMike Sims <mike(at)southwall.com>; 209Thailand Trout former.trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com>; Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com>
Cc: 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 11:22:41 PM
Subject: DC209 W08 NEXT WED NEXT
Did not have them all yesterday at D/L then got tied up. Processing what I have now. Actually started changing some of the key spots to small letters (that fixed early similiar issues in earlier versions of Amed & worse Sengoku (worse because I don't have that geography in my head to just blow through it). As simple as taking the file into wordpad and changing but have to get all the connective places as well. Until I am sure I will make other changes to this (China & Australia cause the war by moving fleets to SCS & ARA eespectively + maybe sc moves if I can remember how) the effort seems not of great value this late in the game. Would use a file someone else fixes if they want to. If people would just play SSI wargames or SPI board 1s we would not have this trouble...
Indonesia:
Remove F TiS
Malaysia:
Defaults, removing F Bru
Thailand:
Build F Tha(wc)
Vietnam:
Build F DNa[Reply] |
| DC209 W08 NEXT WED NEXT - Githraine (Feb 12, 2009, 10:28 am) |
Why under defaults would F Bru, sitting on an SC bordering a Home SC be disbanded before a unit on a Non SC adjacent to a Home SC?
From: MICHAEL BOUTOT <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com>
To: 158GMMike Sims <mike(at)southwall.com>; 209Thailand Trout former.trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com>; Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com>
Cc: 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 11:22:41 PM
Subject: DC209 W08 NEXT WED NEXT
Did not have them all yesterday at D/L then got tied up. Processing what I have now. Actually started changing some of the key spots to small letters (that fixed early similiar issues in earlier versions of Amed & worse Sengoku (worse because I don't have that geography in my head to just blow through it). As simple as taking the file into wordpad and changing but have to get all the connective places as well. Until I am sure I will make other changes to this (China & Australia cause the war by moving fleets to SCS & ARA eespectively + maybe sc moves if I can remember how) the effort seems not of great value this late in the game. Would use a file someone else fixes if they want to. If people would just play SSI wargames or SPI board 1s we would not have this trouble...
Indonesia:
Remove F TiS
Malaysia:
Defaults, removing F Bru
Thailand:
Build F Tha(wc)
Vietnam:
Build F DNa[Reply] |
| DC209 A08 ADJS DUE TUES - former.trout (Feb 11, 2009, 11:56 pm) |
Scratch that. Read all your emails first, Trout. Sorry guys...
T.
On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 10:53 PM, Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
Didn't get a confirm on my order either... Guess Michaels busy right now...
T.
On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 8:29 PM, Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])> wrote:
[quote:2371951de6]Did we lose Vegas? Dues Tues but late wed and nothing and no response on 2 sent build orders...
Anyone?
From: MICHAEL BOUTOT <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
To: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; 209Thailand Trout former.trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Cc: DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 3:15:18 PM
Subject: DC209 A08 ADJS DUE TUES
If everyone was playing Battles of Napoleon, Sons of liberty, or Flying Circus (let alone Acquire) there would not be all this confusion+ there would be much more happiness
Indonesia:
F Jav - CJa(nc)
Philippines:
F SCS - Luz
Adjustments:
Australia: Supp 0 Unit 0 Build 0
China: Supp 0 Unit 0 Build 0
Indonesia: Supp 7 Unit 8 Remove 1
Malaysia: Supp 1 Unit 2 Remove 1
Philippines: Supp 7 Unit 7 Build 0
Thailand: Supp 10 Unit 9 Build 1
Vietnam: Supp 8 Unit 7 Build 1
Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail
[/quote:2371951de6][Reply] |
| DC209 A08 ADJS DUE TUES - former.trout (Feb 11, 2009, 11:54 pm) |
Didn't get a confirm on my order either... Guess Michaels busy right now...
T.
On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 8:29 PM, Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])> wrote:
Did we lose Vegas? Dues Tues but late wed and nothing and no response on 2 sent build orders...
Anyone?
From: MICHAEL BOUTOT <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
To: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; 209Thailand Trout former.trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Cc: DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 3:15:18 PM
Subject: DC209 A08 ADJS DUE TUES
If everyone was playing Battles of Napoleon, Sons of liberty, or Flying Circus (let alone Acquire) there would not be all this confusion+ there would be much more happiness
Indonesia:
F Jav - CJa(nc)
Philippines:
F SCS - Luz
Adjustments:
Australia: Supp 0 Unit 0 Build 0
China: Supp 0 Unit 0 Build 0
Indonesia: Supp 7 Unit 8 Remove 1
Malaysia: Supp 1 Unit 2 Remove 1
Philippines: Supp 7 Unit 7 Build 0
Thailand: Supp 10 Unit 9 Build 1
Vietnam: Supp 8 Unit 7 Build 1
Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail
[Reply] |
| DC209 W08 NEXT WED NEXT - vegas_iwish (Feb 11, 2009, 10:23 pm) |
Did not have them all yesterday at D/L then got tied up. Processing what I have now. Actually started changing some of the key spots to small letters (that fixed early similiar issues in earlier versions of Amed & worse Sengoku (worse because I don't have that geography in my head to just blow through it). As simple as taking the file into wordpad and changing but have to get all the connective places as well. Until I am sure I will make other changes to this (China & Australia cause the war by moving fleets to SCS & ARA eespectively + maybe sc moves if I can remember how) the effort seems not of great value this late in the game. Would use a file someone else fixes if they want to. If people would just play SSI wargames or SPI board 1s we would not have this trouble...
Indonesia:
Remove F TiS
Malaysia:
Defaults, removing F Bru
Thailand:
Build F Tha(wc)
Vietnam:
Build F DNa[Reply] |
| DC209 W08 NEXT WED NEXT (dc209) Githraine Feb 12, 10:28 am |
Why under defaults would F Bru, sitting on an SC bordering a Home SC be disbanded before a unit on a Non SC adjacent to a Home SC?
From: MICHAEL BOUTOT <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com>
To: 158GMMike Sims <mike(at)southwall.com>; 209Thailand Trout former.trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com>; Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com>
Cc: 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 11:22:41 PM
Subject: DC209 W08 NEXT WED NEXT
Did not have them all yesterday at D/L then got tied up. Processing what I have now. Actually started changing some of the key spots to small letters (that fixed early similiar issues in earlier versions of Amed & worse Sengoku (worse because I don't have that geography in my head to just blow through it). As simple as taking the file into wordpad and changing but have to get all the connective places as well. Until I am sure I will make other changes to this (China & Australia cause the war by moving fleets to SCS & ARA eespectively + maybe sc moves if I can remember how) the effort seems not of great value this late in the game. Would use a file someone else fixes if they want to. If people would just play SSI wargames or SPI board 1s we would not have this trouble...
Indonesia:
Remove F TiS
Malaysia:
Defaults, removing F Bru
Thailand:
Build F Tha(wc)
Vietnam:
Build F DNa |
| DC209 W08 NEXT WED NEXT (dc209) FuzzyLogic Feb 12, 11:30 am |
A unit in a center adjacent to a home center should stay, and the one not in a center (but also adjacent to a home center) should go. The rules for this game say this is the order:
[list=1:84156a985b] [*:84156a985b] Units furthest from the nearest home center before units closer to the nearest home center [*:84156a985b]Units not in a supply center before units in a supply center if equidistant from home
[*:84156a985b]Fleets before armies if still no unique unit selected per above [*:84156a985b]Alphabetical[/list:84156a985b]
They are equal per (1), then (2) is the deciding line.
-mike
From: Jason K [mailto:githraine(at)yahoo.com]
Sent: Thu 2/12/2009 10:27 AM
To: MICHAEL BOUTOT; Michael Sims; 209Thailand Trout former.trout; Jason 4747
Cc: 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Subject: Re: DC209 W08 NEXT WED NEXT
Why under defaults would F Bru, sitting on an SC bordering a Home SC be disbanded before a unit on a Non SC adjacent to a Home SC?
From: MICHAEL BOUTOT <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com>
To: 158GMMike Sims <mike(at)southwall.com>; 209Thailand Trout former.trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com>; Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com>
Cc: 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 11:22:41 PM
Subject: DC209 W08 NEXT WED NEXT
Did not have them all yesterday at D/L then got tied up. Processing what I have now. Actually started changing some of the key spots to small letters (that fixed early similiar issues in earlier versions of Amed & worse Sengoku (worse because I don't have that geography in my head to just blow through it). As simple as taking the file into wordpad and changing but have to get all the connective places as well. Until I am sure I will make other changes to this (China & Australia cause the war by moving fleets to SCS & ARA eespectively + maybe sc moves if I can remember how) the effort seems not of great value this late in the game. Would use a file someone else fixes if they want to. If people would just play SSI wargames or SPI board 1s we would not have this trouble...
Indonesia:
Remove F TiS
Malaysia:
Defaults, removing F Bru
Thailand:
Build F Tha(wc)
Vietnam:
Build F DNa |
| DC209 W08 NEXT WED NEXT (dc209) roback80 Feb 12, 05:07 pm |
Like letting a fight go to the judges...
From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com>
To: Jason K <githraine(at)yahoo.com>; MICHAEL BOUTOT <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com>; 209Thailand Trout former.trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com>; Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com>
Cc: 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 11:27:03 AM
Subject: RE: DC209 W08 NEXT WED NEXT
A unit in a center adjacent to a home center should stay, and the one not in a center (but also adjacent to a home center) should go. The rules for this game say this is the order:
[list=1:1ab74a4020] [*:1ab74a4020] Units furthest from the nearest home center before units closer to the nearest home center
[*:1ab74a4020]Units not in a supply center before units in a supply center if equidistant from home [/list:1ab74a4020]
[*]Fleets before armies if still no unique unit selected per above [*]Alphabetical [list=1:1ab74a4020][/list:1ab74a4020]
They are equal per (1), then (2) is the deciding line.
-mike
From: Jason K [mailto:githraine(at)yahoo.com]
Sent: Thu 2/12/2009 10:27 AM
To: MICHAEL BOUTOT; Michael Sims; 209Thailand Trout former.trout; Jason 4747
Cc: 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Subject: Re: DC209 W08 NEXT WED NEXT
Why under defaults would F Bru, sitting on an SC bordering a Home SC be disbanded before a unit on a Non SC adjacent to a Home SC?
From: MICHAEL BOUTOT <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com>
To: 158GMMike Sims <mike(at)southwall.com>; 209Thailand Trout former.trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com>; Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com>
Cc: 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 11:22:41 PM
Subject: DC209 W08 NEXT WED NEXT
Did not have them all yesterday at D/L then got tied up. Processing what I have now. Actually started changing some of the key spots to small letters (that fixed early similiar issues in earlier versions of Amed & worse Sengoku (worse because I don't have that geography in my head to just blow through it). As simple as taking the file into wordpad and changing but have to get all the connective places as well. Until I am sure I will make other changes to this (China & Australia cause the war by moving fleets to SCS & ARA eespectively + maybe sc moves if I can remember how) the effort seems not of great value this late in the game. Would use a file someone else fixes if they want to. If people would just play SSI wargames or SPI board 1s we would not have this trouble...
Indonesia:
Remove F TiS
Malaysia:
Defaults, removing F Bru
Thailand:
Build F Tha(wc)
Vietnam:
Build F DNa
Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! |
| DC209 W08 NEXT WED NEXT (dc209) FuzzyLogic Feb 15, 10:04 pm |
Just checking, are we going to correct this default removal?
-mike
From: MICHAEL BOUTOT [mailto:vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com]
Sent: Wed 2/11/2009 10:22 PM
Subject: DC209 W08 NEXT WED NEXT
Did not have them all yesterday at D/L then got tied up. Processing what I have now. Actually started changing some of the key spots to small letters (that fixed early similiar issues in earlier versions of Amed & worse Sengoku (worse because I don't have that geography in my head to just blow through it). As simple as taking the file into wordpad and changing but have to get all the connective places as well. Until I am sure I will make other changes to this (China & Australia cause the war by moving fleets to SCS & ARA eespectively + maybe sc moves if I can remember how) the effort seems not of great value this late in the game. Would use a file someone else fixes if they want to. If people would just play SSI wargames or SPI board 1s we would not have this trouble...
Indonesia:
Remove F TiS
Malaysia:
Defaults, removing F Bru
Thailand:
Build F Tha(wc)
Vietnam:
Build F DNa |
| DC209 A08 ADJS DUE TUES - roback80 (Feb 11, 2009, 9:30 pm) |
Did we lose Vegas? Dues Tues but late wed and nothing and no response on 2 sent build orders...
Anyone?
From: MICHAEL BOUTOT <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com>
To: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com>; 209Thailand Trout former.trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com>; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca>; Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com>
Cc: DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 3:15:18 PM
Subject: DC209 A08 ADJS DUE TUES
If everyone was playing Battles of Napoleon, Sons of liberty, or Flying Circus (let alone Acquire) there would not be all this confusion+ there would be much more happiness
Indonesia:
F Jav - CJa(nc)
Philippines:
F SCS - Luz
Adjustments:
Australia: Supp 0 Unit 0 Build 0
China: Supp 0 Unit 0 Build 0
Indonesia: Supp 7 Unit 8 Remove 1
Malaysia: Supp 1 Unit 2 Remove 1
Philippines: Supp 7 Unit 7 Build 0
Thailand: Supp 10 Unit 9 Build 1
Vietnam: Supp 8 Unit 7 Build 1
Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail [Reply] |
| DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD - jason4747 (Feb 11, 2009, 3:59 pm) |
Mike and Mike,
I do appreciate your argument on my behalf - for what it's worth I agree, but, Vegas is kind enough to be the GM and what the GM says, goes.
I also have to agree that someone did successfully reach the spot and I have gotten it correct in the past. Just too hurried this round. For whatever reason this last two weeks has been a buzzsaw at work for several of us who usually do pay good, close attention.
For what it's worth, the space in Australia's west Coast is hard to distinguish for the same reason so if anyone is able to fix it eventually it might be worth addressing for other provinces. The whole RP and other file types are beyond my technical capacity.
Anyway, lets play on, I think we are reaching critical mass anyway.
Jason
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 14:27:33 -0800
From: mike(at)southwall.com
To: former.trout(at)gmail.com
CC: rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com; jason4747(at)hotmail.com; githraine(at)yahoo.com; zeclient(at)hotmail.com; salexander37(at)gmail.com; stevelytton(at)hotmail.com; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
That's fine, I dont really care it's just a game... and an inactive one where 2 players aren't even diploming at that. I only brought up the rule cuz you brought up a rule first. And the rule I brought up clearly states that the abbreviation "will be accepted" unless you're going to argue that abbreviations printed on the map are not reasonable. (it seems you're making that argument?)
But what's done is done, I wouldnt mind having the map have clear abbreviations added, since the ones printed on the map are not reasonable to use. I have been going along this game, just guessing at the spots, under the premise that if an H was swapped for an M, it would be accepted, since they look the same. If that's not the case, then the map needs to be clarified, cuz that's all we have to go on.
From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 4:07 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Rob Ackerley; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com; Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
What is 'reasonable' is defined by the GM. Not just in this game, but in any PBEM game. Obviously in this case, Michael (the GM) feels differently about it then you do.
Anyways, I apologize to my fellow players for the public argument. I'll just shut up now. =P
Trout
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 2:46 PM, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
Are you serious??
The rule ALSO says:
The GM will accept all reasonable abbreviations. However if an order is unclear and not clarified by the deadline, the order will be declared void and the unit will hold. Abbreviations that could be applied to more than one space on the map (such as NOR and LIV) should be avoided. EG Lvp or Liverpool for Liverpool and Lvn or Livonia or Livonia.
"The GM will accept all reasonable abbreviations". That is blatantly clear!
Is this a "reasonable abbreviation"? Well it's on the map, it looks like HST to me. I would say it counts as "reasonable", as in it can be reasoned that that space would be HST by the writing on the map.
Is the order unclear? Well could HST be anything else on the map? Let's look at the map. Nope... there it is. Right there, one space. Even labeled HST (or is it MST? I cant tell)
If you're going to suggest we follow the rules, then I think there is absolutely no grounded case to say HST should fail!
I am not trying to pressure anyone. Tho you seem to think we should not even discuss it like gentlemen. Other players were even joking about it. I would say there is no pressure, just bewilderment as to why the above rule is not being applied, when it seems very appropriate that HST is not ambiguous, can not be mistaken for anywhere else, and it's LABELED ON THE MAP as such, in such a bad font, that one cant possibly tell if it's HST or MST. And the rules of the game clearly state The GM will accept all reasonable abbreviations. So it fails???
Come on Trout you usually stand up for following the rules... this is a weird position for you to take.
-mike
From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 3:34 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Rob Ackerley; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
I'll ignore the inflammatory stuff in this email and just focus on the pertinent detail.
Michael uses the default DC house rules, according to the game page. Point 4 of those HRs - (which YOU helped write might I add) state:
As always in all DC games, the GM of the game has the final say and final decision on all matters relating to the game, whether they are covered in the rules or not
What I think of the decision, or what you think of the decision is frankly irrelevent. Michael made the call, based on player questions reconsidered it, and then kept with the original ruling.
For the record, I would have had no problem bouncing in MST if Michael had reversed his decision. BUT - I DO have a problem with a player attempting to loudly pressure the GM into doing so. Especially when that player knows better.
Trout
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 2:11 PM, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:da3e25679a] Point? That a player wrote an order, using the letters printed on the map, which as best I can tell by actually looking at the map the M and the H are indistinguishable, yet it was misordered. The order was not ambiguous - if there was another space nearby that was HST, then MST and HST need to be different. But given that's how it's labeled, I see no reason not to accept it. But I guess there's no point, and it's in your best interest to see to it that nothing is changed, but I did want to voice that it was a challengeable ruling, and so I challenged it. Er seconded Jason's challenge rather. Am I not entitled to challenge a ruling? Michael has made his statement, doesnt mean I cant point out that a player used the abbreviation printed on the map, and that was misordered cuz apparently we're supposed to make up our own abbreviation based on the textual wording which only exists on some of the provinces. Because you did get it right, I'll give you a pat on the back for that. I never suggested invalidating your order.
From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 3:01 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Rob Ackerley; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
I don't know if I buy that argument. I used the same map that the GM sent out and ordered to the same spot. Somehow I managed to get the correct abbreviation...
What exactly is the point of all of this, Mike? Again - I don't know if I agree with the call made by the GM, but it is definitely HIS call to make...
T.
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 1:28 PM, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:da3e25679a] I know you were, and it was amusing, and it does exemplify the fact that using an unrelated 3rd party app we'd be correct, but using the maps our gm sends out, we'd get misorders. (it was also nice to get an email from you Rob, I think this conversation has resulted in us doubling our total communique in this game thus far! :-p)
From: Rob Ackerley [mailto:rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 2:07 PM
To: Michael Sims; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
I was just trying to interject some humour... I am torn and we all have probably been on both sides of choices like this... Sucks yes, but part of the game and part of the duty of the GM's who graciously grant us their time to manage our games.
I jumping out of this debate now...
From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
To: Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 1:59:35 PM
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
So we need to rely on a 3rd-party program, which Michael does not send out the .dpy files for, instead of using the map he does send, which does have abbreviations on it which are supposedly to be accepted? It definitely looks like HST, irrelevant of what the actual text name is.
Can you at least pls take the abbreviations off the map, if you're not going to allow the ones that are printed on it?
I guess I didnt look at the error initially, but this is silly to not accept an abbrev that's on the map that's sent out.
-mike
From: Rob Ackerley [mailto:rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:51 PM
To: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout; Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Cut and paste from RP  Saves all the problems and is a lot less work too!
From: MICHAEL BOUTOT <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
To: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Cc: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 1:49:43 PM
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
1 can clearly read Malacca Strait underneath the 3 letters in dispute. That alone makes it clear. The other earlier errors had the same conflict that should have raised a white flag.
--- On Mon, 2/9/09, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:da3e25679a]From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: "Former Trout" <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: "Jason 4747" <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT" <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "158NewArchersJason Longbow" <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "209Australia Nick Cherrier" <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts" <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "209Vietnam Rob Ackerley" <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>, "DC101tGMStephen Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 11:24 AM
Yeah but you have to agree the map clearly looks like HST,
or certainly could be read that way. I mean if we cant rely
on the abbreviations on the map we're receiving from the
GM, then what can we rely on?
________________________________
From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:20 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason
Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob
Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley; DC101tGMStephen Lytton;
dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Personally I would allow the move as well. However, to be
fair to Michael, he identified WAY early at the beginning of
the game that he was going to be taking a strict
interpretation of the abbreviations. I almost had an order
disallowed because I didn't call the province the right
name - but luckily I included the correct abbreviation in
brackets...
Long story short, I'd say its the GMs call to make. =)
T.
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Michael Sims
<mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
MST and HST look identical in that font. Why are we not
allowing that move? It's not ambiguous, and the
lettering could be read as either one.
-mike
________________________________
From: Jason 4747 [mailto:jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 11:35 AM
To: 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason Longbow;
209Thailand Trout former.trout; 209Australia Nick Cherrier;
209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley;
Michael Sims
Cc: DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Mike,
To be fair, MSt almost equals HSt on my screen, but it is
no excuse for goegraphy stupidity on my part....
As for that and other error, kids, let it be a lesson to
you - multitasking just does not work. And just say no to
drugs.
Jason
[quote:da3e25679a]Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 18:46:41 -0800
From: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Subject: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email]); Githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]Githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email]);
former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email]);
salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email]); rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email]);
mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])
CC: stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
I didn't think I'd see days like these
either. John Lennon. P was on the road away from map but it
is I's moves which are the show. 1. Malacca Strait
clearly can't be HST so not a reading the map issue.
Hold. 2. F jak move to Cjak has no coast. Hold. 3. Only 7
moves - none for F Jav. Hold. The 1 P ret is a given but F
Jav can go many places. Mon due. Indonesian F Jav can
retreat to NIO or Bal or SlS or Slw or ETi
or WTi or CJa(nc).
Philippine F SCS can retreat to Luz.
Indonesia:
F And - Bur (*Fails*)
F TiS Supports F PHe - SIO
F Jav, no move received (*Dislodged*)
F PHe - SIO
F Jak Hold
F Med Hold
A Sab - Kuc
A Kuc - WKa
Malaysia:
F Bru Supports A Sab - Kuc
A Pah - KLu (*Fails*)
Philippines:
F NPS - ECS (*Fails*)
F SCS Supports F NPS - ECS (*Dislodged*)
F SuS Supports F Ceb - SSe
F Ara - BaS
F Ceb - SSe
A Luz - Man
F Tai Supports F SCS
Thailand:
F GTh - Tha(ec) (*Bounce*)
F MSe - Jav
F Sur Supports F MSe - Jav
F Sin Supports F MSe - Jav
F SpI - MSe
F Ked - MSt
A KBh - Tha (*Bounce*)
A KLu Supports F Sin (*Cut*)
A Bur Hold
Vietnam:
F ECS - NPS (*Fails*)
F SSe - SpI
F ViS Supports F Fuj - SCS
F Sai Supports F SpI - MSe
A HKo - Dav (*Fails*)
F Fuj - SCS
F Guz Supports F Fuj - SCS
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| DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD - FuzzyLogic (Feb 09, 2009, 4:28 pm) |
That's fine, I dont really care it's just a game... and an inactive one where 2 players aren't even diploming at that. I only brought up the rule cuz you brought up a rule first. And the rule I brought up clearly states that the abbreviation "will be accepted" unless you're going to argue that abbreviations printed on the map are not reasonable. (it seems you're making that argument?)
But what's done is done, I wouldnt mind having the map have clear abbreviations added, since the ones printed on the map are not reasonable to use. I have been going along this game, just guessing at the spots, under the premise that if an H was swapped for an M, it would be accepted, since they look the same. If that's not the case, then the map needs to be clarified, cuz that's all we have to go on.
From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 4:07 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Rob Ackerley; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com; Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
What is 'reasonable' is defined by the GM. Not just in this game, but in any PBEM game. Obviously in this case, Michael (the GM) feels differently about it then you do.
Anyways, I apologize to my fellow players for the public argument. I'll just shut up now. =P
Trout
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 2:46 PM, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
Are you serious??
The rule ALSO says:
The GM will accept all reasonable abbreviations. However if an order is unclear and not clarified by the deadline, the order will be declared void and the unit will hold. Abbreviations that could be applied to more than one space on the map (such as NOR and LIV) should be avoided. EG Lvp or Liverpool for Liverpool and Lvn or Livonia or Livonia.
"The GM will accept all reasonable abbreviations". That is blatantly clear!
Is this a "reasonable abbreviation"? Well it's on the map, it looks like HST to me. I would say it counts as "reasonable", as in it can be reasoned that that space would be HST by the writing on the map.
Is the order unclear? Well could HST be anything else on the map? Let's look at the map. Nope... there it is. Right there, one space. Even labeled HST (or is it MST? I cant tell)
If you're going to suggest we follow the rules, then I think there is absolutely no grounded case to say HST should fail!
I am not trying to pressure anyone. Tho you seem to think we should not even discuss it like gentlemen. Other players were even joking about it. I would say there is no pressure, just bewilderment as to why the above rule is not being applied, when it seems very appropriate that HST is not ambiguous, can not be mistaken for anywhere else, and it's LABELED ON THE MAP as such, in such a bad font, that one cant possibly tell if it's HST or MST. And the rules of the game clearly state The GM will accept all reasonable abbreviations. So it fails???
Come on Trout you usually stand up for following the rules... this is a weird position for you to take.
-mike
From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 3:34 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Rob Ackerley; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
I'll ignore the inflammatory stuff in this email and just focus on the pertinent detail.
Michael uses the default DC house rules, according to the game page. Point 4 of those HRs - (which YOU helped write might I add) state:
As always in all DC games, the GM of the game has the final say and final decision on all matters relating to the game, whether they are covered in the rules or not
What I think of the decision, or what you think of the decision is frankly irrelevent. Michael made the call, based on player questions reconsidered it, and then kept with the original ruling.
For the record, I would have had no problem bouncing in MST if Michael had reversed his decision. BUT - I DO have a problem with a player attempting to loudly pressure the GM into doing so. Especially when that player knows better.
Trout
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 2:11 PM, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:76315721ce] Point? That a player wrote an order, using the letters printed on the map, which as best I can tell by actually looking at the map the M and the H are indistinguishable, yet it was misordered. The order was not ambiguous - if there was another space nearby that was HST, then MST and HST need to be different. But given that's how it's labeled, I see no reason not to accept it. But I guess there's no point, and it's in your best interest to see to it that nothing is changed, but I did want to voice that it was a challengeable ruling, and so I challenged it. Er seconded Jason's challenge rather. Am I not entitled to challenge a ruling? Michael has made his statement, doesnt mean I cant point out that a player used the abbreviation printed on the map, and that was misordered cuz apparently we're supposed to make up our own abbreviation based on the textual wording which only exists on some of the provinces. Because you did get it right, I'll give you a pat on the back for that. I never suggested invalidating your order.
From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 3:01 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Rob Ackerley; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
I don't know if I buy that argument. I used the same map that the GM sent out and ordered to the same spot. Somehow I managed to get the correct abbreviation...
What exactly is the point of all of this, Mike? Again - I don't know if I agree with the call made by the GM, but it is definitely HIS call to make...
T.
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 1:28 PM, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:76315721ce] I know you were, and it was amusing, and it does exemplify the fact that using an unrelated 3rd party app we'd be correct, but using the maps our gm sends out, we'd get misorders. (it was also nice to get an email from you Rob, I think this conversation has resulted in us doubling our total communique in this game thus far! :-p)
From: Rob Ackerley [mailto:rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 2:07 PM
To: Michael Sims; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
I was just trying to interject some humour... I am torn and we all have probably been on both sides of choices like this... Sucks yes, but part of the game and part of the duty of the GM's who graciously grant us their time to manage our games.
I jumping out of this debate now...
From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
To: Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 1:59:35 PM
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
So we need to rely on a 3rd-party program, which Michael does not send out the .dpy files for, instead of using the map he does send, which does have abbreviations on it which are supposedly to be accepted? It definitely looks like HST, irrelevant of what the actual text name is.
Can you at least pls take the abbreviations off the map, if you're not going to allow the ones that are printed on it?
I guess I didnt look at the error initially, but this is silly to not accept an abbrev that's on the map that's sent out.
-mike
From: Rob Ackerley [mailto:rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:51 PM
To: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout; Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Cut and paste from RP Saves all the problems and is a lot less work too!
From: MICHAEL BOUTOT <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
To: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Cc: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 1:49:43 PM
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
1 can clearly read Malacca Strait underneath the 3 letters in dispute. That alone makes it clear. The other earlier errors had the same conflict that should have raised a white flag.
--- On Mon, 2/9/09, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:76315721ce]From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: "Former Trout" <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: "Jason 4747" <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT" <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "158NewArchersJason Longbow" <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "209Australia Nick Cherrier" <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts" <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "209Vietnam Rob Ackerley" <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>, "DC101tGMStephen Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 11:24 AM
Yeah but you have to agree the map clearly looks like HST,
or certainly could be read that way. I mean if we cant rely
on the abbreviations on the map we're receiving from the
GM, then what can we rely on?
________________________________
From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:20 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason
Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob
Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley; DC101tGMStephen Lytton;
dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Personally I would allow the move as well. However, to be
fair to Michael, he identified WAY early at the beginning of
the game that he was going to be taking a strict
interpretation of the abbreviations. I almost had an order
disallowed because I didn't call the province the right
name - but luckily I included the correct abbreviation in
brackets...
Long story short, I'd say its the GMs call to make. =)
T.
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Michael Sims
<mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
MST and HST look identical in that font. Why are we not
allowing that move? It's not ambiguous, and the
lettering could be read as either one.
-mike
________________________________
From: Jason 4747 [mailto:jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 11:35 AM
To: 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason Longbow;
209Thailand Trout former.trout; 209Australia Nick Cherrier;
209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley;
Michael Sims
Cc: DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Mike,
To be fair, MSt almost equals HSt on my screen, but it is
no excuse for goegraphy stupidity on my part....
As for that and other error, kids, let it be a lesson to
you - multitasking just does not work. And just say no to
drugs.
Jason
[quote:76315721ce]Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 18:46:41 -0800
From: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Subject: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email]); Githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]Githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email]);
former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email]);
salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email]); rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email]);
mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])
CC: stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
I didn't think I'd see days like these
either. John Lennon. P was on the road away from map but it
is I's moves which are the show. 1. Malacca Strait
clearly can't be HST so not a reading the map issue.
Hold. 2. F jak move to Cjak has no coast. Hold. 3. Only 7
moves - none for F Jav. Hold. The 1 P ret is a given but F
Jav can go many places. Mon due. Indonesian F Jav can
retreat to NIO or Bal or SlS or Slw or ETi
or WTi or CJa(nc).
Philippine F SCS can retreat to Luz.
Indonesia:
F And - Bur (*Fails*)
F TiS Supports F PHe - SIO
F Jav, no move received (*Dislodged*)
F PHe - SIO
F Jak Hold
F Med Hold
A Sab - Kuc
A Kuc - WKa
Malaysia:
F Bru Supports A Sab - Kuc
A Pah - KLu (*Fails*)
Philippines:
F NPS - ECS (*Fails*)
F SCS Supports F NPS - ECS (*Dislodged*)
F SuS Supports F Ceb - SSe
F Ara - BaS
F Ceb - SSe
A Luz - Man
F Tai Supports F SCS
Thailand:
F GTh - Tha(ec) (*Bounce*)
F MSe - Jav
F Sur Supports F MSe - Jav
F Sin Supports F MSe - Jav
F SpI - MSe
F Ked - MSt
A KBh - Tha (*Bounce*)
A KLu Supports F Sin (*Cut*)
A Bur Hold
Vietnam:
F ECS - NPS (*Fails*)
F SSe - SpI
F ViS Supports F Fuj - SCS
F Sai Supports F SpI - MSe
A HKo - Dav (*Fails*)
F Fuj - SCS
F Guz Supports F Fuj - SCS
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| DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD - former.trout (Feb 09, 2009, 4:08 pm) |
What is 'reasonable' is defined by the GM. Not just in this game, but in any PBEM game. Obviously in this case, Michael (the GM) feels differently about it then you do.
Anyways, I apologize to my fellow players for the public argument. I'll just shut up now. =P
Trout
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 2:46 PM, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
Are you serious??
The rule ALSO says:
The GM will accept all reasonable abbreviations. However if an order is unclear and not clarified by the deadline, the order will be declared void and the unit will hold. Abbreviations that could be applied to more than one space on the map (such as NOR and LIV) should be avoided. EG Lvp or Liverpool for Liverpool and Lvn or Livonia or Livonia.
"The GM will accept all reasonable abbreviations". That is blatantly clear!
Is this a "reasonable abbreviation"? Well it's on the map, it looks like HST to me. I would say it counts as "reasonable", as in it can be reasoned that that space would be HST by the writing on the map.
Is the order unclear? Well could HST be anything else on the map? Let's look at the map. Nope... there it is. Right there, one space. Even labeled HST (or is it MST? I cant tell)
If you're going to suggest we follow the rules, then I think there is absolutely no grounded case to say HST should fail!
I am not trying to pressure anyone. Tho you seem to think we should not even discuss it like gentlemen. Other players were even joking about it. I would say there is no pressure, just bewilderment as to why the above rule is not being applied, when it seems very appropriate that HST is not ambiguous, can not be mistaken for anywhere else, and it's LABELED ON THE MAP as such, in such a bad font, that one cant possibly tell if it's HST or MST. And the rules of the game clearly state The GM will accept all reasonable abbreviations. So it fails???
Come on Trout you usually stand up for following the rules... this is a weird position for you to take.
-mike
From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 3:34 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Rob Ackerley; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
I'll ignore the inflammatory stuff in this email and just focus on the pertinent detail.
Michael uses the default DC house rules, according to the game page. Point 4 of those HRs - (which YOU helped write might I add) state:
As always in all DC games, the GM of the game has the final say and final decision on all matters relating to the game, whether they are covered in the rules or not
What I think of the decision, or what you think of the decision is frankly irrelevent. Michael made the call, based on player questions reconsidered it, and then kept with the original ruling.
For the record, I would have had no problem bouncing in MST if Michael had reversed his decision. BUT - I DO have a problem with a player attempting to loudly pressure the GM into doing so. Especially when that player knows better.
Trout
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 2:11 PM, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:95b76770da] Point? That a player wrote an order, using the letters printed on the map, which as best I can tell by actually looking at the map the M and the H are indistinguishable, yet it was misordered. The order was not ambiguous - if there was another space nearby that was HST, then MST and HST need to be different. But given that's how it's labeled, I see no reason not to accept it. But I guess there's no point, and it's in your best interest to see to it that nothing is changed, but I did want to voice that it was a challengeable ruling, and so I challenged it. Er seconded Jason's challenge rather. Am I not entitled to challenge a ruling? Michael has made his statement, doesnt mean I cant point out that a player used the abbreviation printed on the map, and that was misordered cuz apparently we're supposed to make up our own abbreviation based on the textual wording which only exists on some of the provinces. Because you did get it right, I'll give you a pat on the back for that. I never suggested invalidating your order.
From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 3:01 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Rob Ackerley; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
I don't know if I buy that argument. I used the same map that the GM sent out and ordered to the same spot. Somehow I managed to get the correct abbreviation...
What exactly is the point of all of this, Mike? Again - I don't know if I agree with the call made by the GM, but it is definitely HIS call to make...
T.
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 1:28 PM, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:95b76770da] I know you were, and it was amusing, and it does exemplify the fact that using an unrelated 3rd party app we'd be correct, but using the maps our gm sends out, we'd get misorders. (it was also nice to get an email from you Rob, I think this conversation has resulted in us doubling our total communique in this game thus far! :-p)
From: Rob Ackerley [mailto:rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 2:07 PM
To: Michael Sims; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
I was just trying to interject some humour... I am torn and we all have probably been on both sides of choices like this... Sucks yes, but part of the game and part of the duty of the GM's who graciously grant us their time to manage our games.
I jumping out of this debate now...
From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
To: Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 1:59:35 PM
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
So we need to rely on a 3rd-party program, which Michael does not send out the .dpy files for, instead of using the map he does send, which does have abbreviations on it which are supposedly to be accepted? It definitely looks like HST, irrelevant of what the actual text name is.
Can you at least pls take the abbreviations off the map, if you're not going to allow the ones that are printed on it?
I guess I didnt look at the error initially, but this is silly to not accept an abbrev that's on the map that's sent out.
-mike
From: Rob Ackerley [mailto:rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:51 PM
To: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout; Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Cut and paste from RP Saves all the problems and is a lot less work too!
From: MICHAEL BOUTOT <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
To: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Cc: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 1:49:43 PM
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
1 can clearly read Malacca Strait underneath the 3 letters in dispute. That alone makes it clear. The other earlier errors had the same conflict that should have raised a white flag.
--- On Mon, 2/9/09, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:95b76770da]From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: "Former Trout" <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: "Jason 4747" <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT" <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "158NewArchersJason Longbow" <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "209Australia Nick Cherrier" <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts" <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "209Vietnam Rob Ackerley" <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>, "DC101tGMStephen Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 11:24 AM
Yeah but you have to agree the map clearly looks like HST,
or certainly could be read that way. I mean if we cant rely
on the abbreviations on the map we're receiving from the
GM, then what can we rely on?
________________________________
From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:20 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason
Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob
Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley; DC101tGMStephen Lytton;
dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Personally I would allow the move as well. However, to be
fair to Michael, he identified WAY early at the beginning of
the game that he was going to be taking a strict
interpretation of the abbreviations. I almost had an order
disallowed because I didn't call the province the right
name - but luckily I included the correct abbreviation in
brackets...
Long story short, I'd say its the GMs call to make. =)
T.
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Michael Sims
<mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
MST and HST look identical in that font. Why are we not
allowing that move? It's not ambiguous, and the
lettering could be read as either one.
-mike
________________________________
From: Jason 4747 [mailto:jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 11:35 AM
To: 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason Longbow;
209Thailand Trout former.trout; 209Australia Nick Cherrier;
209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley;
Michael Sims
Cc: DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Mike,
To be fair, MSt almost equals HSt on my screen, but it is
no excuse for goegraphy stupidity on my part....
As for that and other error, kids, let it be a lesson to
you - multitasking just does not work. And just say no to
drugs.
Jason
[quote:95b76770da]Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 18:46:41 -0800
From: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Subject: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email]); Githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]Githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email]);
former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email]);
salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email]); rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email]);
mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])
CC: stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
I didn't think I'd see days like these
either. John Lennon. P was on the road away from map but it
is I's moves which are the show. 1. Malacca Strait
clearly can't be HST so not a reading the map issue.
Hold. 2. F jak move to Cjak has no coast. Hold. 3. Only 7
moves - none for F Jav. Hold. The 1 P ret is a given but F
Jav can go many places. Mon due. Indonesian F Jav can
retreat to NIO or Bal or SlS or Slw or ETi
or WTi or CJa(nc).
Philippine F SCS can retreat to Luz.
Indonesia:
F And - Bur (*Fails*)
F TiS Supports F PHe - SIO
F Jav, no move received (*Dislodged*)
F PHe - SIO
F Jak Hold
F Med Hold
A Sab - Kuc
A Kuc - WKa
Malaysia:
F Bru Supports A Sab - Kuc
A Pah - KLu (*Fails*)
Philippines:
F NPS - ECS (*Fails*)
F SCS Supports F NPS - ECS (*Dislodged*)
F SuS Supports F Ceb - SSe
F Ara - BaS
F Ceb - SSe
A Luz - Man
F Tai Supports F SCS
Thailand:
F GTh - Tha(ec) (*Bounce*)
F MSe - Jav
F Sur Supports F MSe - Jav
F Sin Supports F MSe - Jav
F SpI - MSe
F Ked - MSt
A KBh - Tha (*Bounce*)
A KLu Supports F Sin (*Cut*)
A Bur Hold
Vietnam:
F ECS - NPS (*Fails*)
F SSe - SpI
F ViS Supports F Fuj - SCS
F Sai Supports F SpI - MSe
A HKo - Dav (*Fails*)
F Fuj - SCS
F Guz Supports F Fuj - SCS
________________________________
Windows Live(tm): Keep your life in sync. See how it
works.
<http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_022009>
[/quote:95b76770da]
Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!
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[/quote:95b76770da]
[/quote:95b76770da]
[/quote:95b76770da][Reply] |
| DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD - FuzzyLogic (Feb 09, 2009, 3:47 pm) |
Are you serious??
The rule ALSO says:
The GM will accept all reasonable abbreviations. However if an order is unclear and not clarified by the deadline, the order will be declared void and the unit will hold. Abbreviations that could be applied to more than one space on the map (such as NOR and LIV) should be avoided. EG Lvp or Liverpool for Liverpool and Lvn or Livonia or Livonia.
"The GM will accept all reasonable abbreviations". That is blatantly clear!
Is this a "reasonable abbreviation"? Well it's on the map, it looks like HST to me. I would say it counts as "reasonable", as in it can be reasoned that that space would be HST by the writing on the map.
Is the order unclear? Well could HST be anything else on the map? Let's look at the map. Nope... there it is. Right there, one space. Even labeled HST (or is it MST? I cant tell)
If you're going to suggest we follow the rules, then I think there is absolutely no grounded case to say HST should fail!
I am not trying to pressure anyone. Tho you seem to think we should not even discuss it like gentlemen. Other players were even joking about it. I would say there is no pressure, just bewilderment as to why the above rule is not being applied, when it seems very appropriate that HST is not ambiguous, can not be mistaken for anywhere else, and it's LABELED ON THE MAP as such, in such a bad font, that one cant possibly tell if it's HST or MST. And the rules of the game clearly state The GM will accept all reasonable abbreviations. So it fails???
Come on Trout you usually stand up for following the rules... this is a weird position for you to take.
-mike
From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 3:34 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Rob Ackerley; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com; Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
I'll ignore the inflammatory stuff in this email and just focus on the pertinent detail.
Michael uses the default DC house rules, according to the game page. Point 4 of those HRs - (which YOU helped write might I add) state:
As always in all DC games, the GM of the game has the final say and final decision on all matters relating to the game, whether they are covered in the rules or not
What I think of the decision, or what you think of the decision is frankly irrelevent. Michael made the call, based on player questions reconsidered it, and then kept with the original ruling.
For the record, I would have had no problem bouncing in MST if Michael had reversed his decision. BUT - I DO have a problem with a player attempting to loudly pressure the GM into doing so. Especially when that player knows better.
Trout
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 2:11 PM, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
Point? That a player wrote an order, using the letters printed on the map, which as best I can tell by actually looking at the map the M and the H are indistinguishable, yet it was misordered. The order was not ambiguous - if there was another space nearby that was HST, then MST and HST need to be different. But given that's how it's labeled, I see no reason not to accept it. But I guess there's no point, and it's in your best interest to see to it that nothing is changed, but I did want to voice that it was a challengeable ruling, and so I challenged it. Er seconded Jason's challenge rather. Am I not entitled to challenge a ruling? Michael has made his statement, doesnt mean I cant point out that a player used the abbreviation printed on the map, and that was misordered cuz apparently we're supposed to make up our own abbreviation based on the textual wording which only exists on some of the provinces. Because you did get it right, I'll give you a pat on the back for that. I never suggested invalidating your order.
From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 3:01 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Rob Ackerley; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
I don't know if I buy that argument. I used the same map that the GM sent out and ordered to the same spot. Somehow I managed to get the correct abbreviation...
What exactly is the point of all of this, Mike? Again - I don't know if I agree with the call made by the GM, but it is definitely HIS call to make...
T.
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 1:28 PM, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:b67ee9c41f] I know you were, and it was amusing, and it does exemplify the fact that using an unrelated 3rd party app we'd be correct, but using the maps our gm sends out, we'd get misorders. (it was also nice to get an email from you Rob, I think this conversation has resulted in us doubling our total communique in this game thus far! :-p)
From: Rob Ackerley [mailto:rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 2:07 PM
To: Michael Sims; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
I was just trying to interject some humour... I am torn and we all have probably been on both sides of choices like this... Sucks yes, but part of the game and part of the duty of the GM's who graciously grant us their time to manage our games.
I jumping out of this debate now...
From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
To: Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 1:59:35 PM
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
So we need to rely on a 3rd-party program, which Michael does not send out the .dpy files for, instead of using the map he does send, which does have abbreviations on it which are supposedly to be accepted? It definitely looks like HST, irrelevant of what the actual text name is.
Can you at least pls take the abbreviations off the map, if you're not going to allow the ones that are printed on it?
I guess I didnt look at the error initially, but this is silly to not accept an abbrev that's on the map that's sent out.
-mike
From: Rob Ackerley [mailto:rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:51 PM
To: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout; Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Cut and paste from RP Saves all the problems and is a lot less work too!
From: MICHAEL BOUTOT <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
To: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Cc: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 1:49:43 PM
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
1 can clearly read Malacca Strait underneath the 3 letters in dispute. That alone makes it clear. The other earlier errors had the same conflict that should have raised a white flag.
--- On Mon, 2/9/09, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:b67ee9c41f]From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: "Former Trout" <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: "Jason 4747" <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT" <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "158NewArchersJason Longbow" <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "209Australia Nick Cherrier" <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts" <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "209Vietnam Rob Ackerley" <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>, "DC101tGMStephen Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 11:24 AM
Yeah but you have to agree the map clearly looks like HST,
or certainly could be read that way. I mean if we cant rely
on the abbreviations on the map we're receiving from the
GM, then what can we rely on?
________________________________
From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:20 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason
Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob
Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley; DC101tGMStephen Lytton;
dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Personally I would allow the move as well. However, to be
fair to Michael, he identified WAY early at the beginning of
the game that he was going to be taking a strict
interpretation of the abbreviations. I almost had an order
disallowed because I didn't call the province the right
name - but luckily I included the correct abbreviation in
brackets...
Long story short, I'd say its the GMs call to make. =)
T.
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Michael Sims
<mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
MST and HST look identical in that font. Why are we not
allowing that move? It's not ambiguous, and the
lettering could be read as either one.
-mike
________________________________
From: Jason 4747 [mailto:jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 11:35 AM
To: 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason Longbow;
209Thailand Trout former.trout; 209Australia Nick Cherrier;
209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley;
Michael Sims
Cc: DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Mike,
To be fair, MSt almost equals HSt on my screen, but it is
no excuse for goegraphy stupidity on my part....
As for that and other error, kids, let it be a lesson to
you - multitasking just does not work. And just say no to
drugs.
Jason
[quote:b67ee9c41f]Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 18:46:41 -0800
From: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Subject: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email]); Githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]Githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email]);
former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email]);
salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email]); rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email]);
mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])
CC: stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
I didn't think I'd see days like these
either. John Lennon. P was on the road away from map but it
is I's moves which are the show. 1. Malacca Strait
clearly can't be HST so not a reading the map issue.
Hold. 2. F jak move to Cjak has no coast. Hold. 3. Only 7
moves - none for F Jav. Hold. The 1 P ret is a given but F
Jav can go many places. Mon due. Indonesian F Jav can
retreat to NIO or Bal or SlS or Slw or ETi
or WTi or CJa(nc).
Philippine F SCS can retreat to Luz.
Indonesia:
F And - Bur (*Fails*)
F TiS Supports F PHe - SIO
F Jav, no move received (*Dislodged*)
F PHe - SIO
F Jak Hold
F Med Hold
A Sab - Kuc
A Kuc - WKa
Malaysia:
F Bru Supports A Sab - Kuc
A Pah - KLu (*Fails*)
Philippines:
F NPS - ECS (*Fails*)
F SCS Supports F NPS - ECS (*Dislodged*)
F SuS Supports F Ceb - SSe
F Ara - BaS
F Ceb - SSe
A Luz - Man
F Tai Supports F SCS
Thailand:
F GTh - Tha(ec) (*Bounce*)
F MSe - Jav
F Sur Supports F MSe - Jav
F Sin Supports F MSe - Jav
F SpI - MSe
F Ked - MSt
A KBh - Tha (*Bounce*)
A KLu Supports F Sin (*Cut*)
A Bur Hold
Vietnam:
F ECS - NPS (*Fails*)
F SSe - SpI
F ViS Supports F Fuj - SCS
F Sai Supports F SpI - MSe
A HKo - Dav (*Fails*)
F Fuj - SCS
F Guz Supports F Fuj - SCS
________________________________
Windows Live(tm): Keep your life in sync. See how it
works.
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| DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD - former.trout (Feb 09, 2009, 3:35 pm) |
I'll ignore the inflammatory stuff in this email and just focus on the pertinent detail.
Michael uses the default DC house rules, according to the game page. Point 4 of those HRs - (which YOU helped write might I add) state:
As always in all DC games, the GM of the game has the final say and final decision on all matters relating to the game, whether they are covered in the rules or not
What I think of the decision, or what you think of the decision is frankly irrelevent. Michael made the call, based on player questions reconsidered it, and then kept with the original ruling.
For the record, I would have had no problem bouncing in MST if Michael had reversed his decision. BUT - I DO have a problem with a player attempting to loudly pressure the GM into doing so. Especially when that player knows better.
Trout
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 2:11 PM, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
Point? That a player wrote an order, using the letters printed on the map, which as best I can tell by actually looking at the map the M and the H are indistinguishable, yet it was misordered. The order was not ambiguous - if there was another space nearby that was HST, then MST and HST need to be different. But given that's how it's labeled, I see no reason not to accept it. But I guess there's no point, and it's in your best interest to see to it that nothing is changed, but I did want to voice that it was a challengeable ruling, and so I challenged it. Er seconded Jason's challenge rather. Am I not entitled to challenge a ruling? Michael has made his statement, doesnt mean I cant point out that a player used the abbreviation printed on the map, and that was misordered cuz apparently we're supposed to make up our own abbreviation based on the textual wording which only exists on some of the provinces. Because you did get it right, I'll give you a pat on the back for that. I never suggested invalidating your order.
From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 3:01 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Rob Ackerley; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
I don't know if I buy that argument. I used the same map that the GM sent out and ordered to the same spot. Somehow I managed to get the correct abbreviation...
What exactly is the point of all of this, Mike? Again - I don't know if I agree with the call made by the GM, but it is definitely HIS call to make...
T.
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 1:28 PM, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:f8412ebb61] I know you were, and it was amusing, and it does exemplify the fact that using an unrelated 3rd party app we'd be correct, but using the maps our gm sends out, we'd get misorders. (it was also nice to get an email from you Rob, I think this conversation has resulted in us doubling our total communique in this game thus far! :-p)
From: Rob Ackerley [mailto:rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 2:07 PM
To: Michael Sims; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
I was just trying to interject some humour... I am torn and we all have probably been on both sides of choices like this... Sucks yes, but part of the game and part of the duty of the GM's who graciously grant us their time to manage our games.
I jumping out of this debate now...
From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
To: Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 1:59:35 PM
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
So we need to rely on a 3rd-party program, which Michael does not send out the .dpy files for, instead of using the map he does send, which does have abbreviations on it which are supposedly to be accepted? It definitely looks like HST, irrelevant of what the actual text name is.
Can you at least pls take the abbreviations off the map, if you're not going to allow the ones that are printed on it?
I guess I didnt look at the error initially, but this is silly to not accept an abbrev that's on the map that's sent out.
-mike
From: Rob Ackerley [mailto:rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:51 PM
To: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout; Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Cut and paste from RP Saves all the problems and is a lot less work too!
From: MICHAEL BOUTOT <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
To: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Cc: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 1:49:43 PM
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
1 can clearly read Malacca Strait underneath the 3 letters in dispute. That alone makes it clear. The other earlier errors had the same conflict that should have raised a white flag.
--- On Mon, 2/9/09, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:f8412ebb61]From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: "Former Trout" <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: "Jason 4747" <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT" <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "158NewArchersJason Longbow" <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "209Australia Nick Cherrier" <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts" <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "209Vietnam Rob Ackerley" <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>, "DC101tGMStephen Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 11:24 AM
Yeah but you have to agree the map clearly looks like HST,
or certainly could be read that way. I mean if we cant rely
on the abbreviations on the map we're receiving from the
GM, then what can we rely on?
________________________________
From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:20 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason
Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob
Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley; DC101tGMStephen Lytton;
dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Personally I would allow the move as well. However, to be
fair to Michael, he identified WAY early at the beginning of
the game that he was going to be taking a strict
interpretation of the abbreviations. I almost had an order
disallowed because I didn't call the province the right
name - but luckily I included the correct abbreviation in
brackets...
Long story short, I'd say its the GMs call to make. =)
T.
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Michael Sims
<mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
MST and HST look identical in that font. Why are we not
allowing that move? It's not ambiguous, and the
lettering could be read as either one.
-mike
________________________________
From: Jason 4747 [mailto:jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 11:35 AM
To: 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason Longbow;
209Thailand Trout former.trout; 209Australia Nick Cherrier;
209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley;
Michael Sims
Cc: DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Mike,
To be fair, MSt almost equals HSt on my screen, but it is
no excuse for goegraphy stupidity on my part....
As for that and other error, kids, let it be a lesson to
you - multitasking just does not work. And just say no to
drugs.
Jason
[quote:f8412ebb61]Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 18:46:41 -0800
From: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Subject: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email]); Githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]Githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email]);
former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email]);
salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email]); rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email]);
mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])
CC: stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
I didn't think I'd see days like these
either. John Lennon. P was on the road away from map but it
is I's moves which are the show. 1. Malacca Strait
clearly can't be HST so not a reading the map issue.
Hold. 2. F jak move to Cjak has no coast. Hold. 3. Only 7
moves - none for F Jav. Hold. The 1 P ret is a given but F
Jav can go many places. Mon due. Indonesian F Jav can
retreat to NIO or Bal or SlS or Slw or ETi
or WTi or CJa(nc).
Philippine F SCS can retreat to Luz.
Indonesia:
F And - Bur (*Fails*)
F TiS Supports F PHe - SIO
F Jav, no move received (*Dislodged*)
F PHe - SIO
F Jak Hold
F Med Hold
A Sab - Kuc
A Kuc - WKa
Malaysia:
F Bru Supports A Sab - Kuc
A Pah - KLu (*Fails*)
Philippines:
F NPS - ECS (*Fails*)
F SCS Supports F NPS - ECS (*Dislodged*)
F SuS Supports F Ceb - SSe
F Ara - BaS
F Ceb - SSe
A Luz - Man
F Tai Supports F SCS
Thailand:
F GTh - Tha(ec) (*Bounce*)
F MSe - Jav
F Sur Supports F MSe - Jav
F Sin Supports F MSe - Jav
F SpI - MSe
F Ked - MSt
A KBh - Tha (*Bounce*)
A KLu Supports F Sin (*Cut*)
A Bur Hold
Vietnam:
F ECS - NPS (*Fails*)
F SSe - SpI
F ViS Supports F Fuj - SCS
F Sai Supports F SpI - MSe
A HKo - Dav (*Fails*)
F Fuj - SCS
F Guz Supports F Fuj - SCS
________________________________
Windows Live(tm): Keep your life in sync. See how it
works.
<http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_022009>
[/quote:f8412ebb61]
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| DC209 A08 ADJS DUE TUES - vegas_iwish (Feb 09, 2009, 3:16 pm) |
If everyone was playing Battles of Napoleon, Sons of liberty, or Flying Circus (let alone Acquire) there would not be all this confusion+ there would be much more happiness
Indonesia:
F Jav - CJa(nc)
Philippines:
F SCS - Luz
Adjustments:
Australia: Supp 0 Unit 0 Build 0
China: Supp 0 Unit 0 Build 0
Indonesia: Supp 7 Unit 8 Remove 1
Malaysia: Supp 1 Unit 2 Remove 1
Philippines: Supp 7 Unit 7 Build 0
Thailand: Supp 10 Unit 9 Build 1
Vietnam: Supp 8 Unit 7 Build 1[Reply] |
| DC209 A08 ADJS DUE TUES (dc209) roback80 Feb 11, 09:30 pm |
Did we lose Vegas? Dues Tues but late wed and nothing and no response on 2 sent build orders...
Anyone?
From: MICHAEL BOUTOT <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com>
To: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com>; 209Thailand Trout former.trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com>; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca>; Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com>
Cc: DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 3:15:18 PM
Subject: DC209 A08 ADJS DUE TUES
If everyone was playing Battles of Napoleon, Sons of liberty, or Flying Circus (let alone Acquire) there would not be all this confusion+ there would be much more happiness
Indonesia:
F Jav - CJa(nc)
Philippines:
F SCS - Luz
Adjustments:
Australia: Supp 0 Unit 0 Build 0
China: Supp 0 Unit 0 Build 0
Indonesia: Supp 7 Unit 8 Remove 1
Malaysia: Supp 1 Unit 2 Remove 1
Philippines: Supp 7 Unit 7 Build 0
Thailand: Supp 10 Unit 9 Build 1
Vietnam: Supp 8 Unit 7 Build 1
Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail |
| DC209 A08 ADJS DUE TUES (dc209) former.trout Feb 11, 11:54 pm |
Didn't get a confirm on my order either... Guess Michaels busy right now...
T.
On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 8:29 PM, Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])> wrote:
Did we lose Vegas? Dues Tues but late wed and nothing and no response on 2 sent build orders...
Anyone?
From: MICHAEL BOUTOT <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
To: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; 209Thailand Trout former.trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Cc: DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 3:15:18 PM
Subject: DC209 A08 ADJS DUE TUES
If everyone was playing Battles of Napoleon, Sons of liberty, or Flying Circus (let alone Acquire) there would not be all this confusion+ there would be much more happiness
Indonesia:
F Jav - CJa(nc)
Philippines:
F SCS - Luz
Adjustments:
Australia: Supp 0 Unit 0 Build 0
China: Supp 0 Unit 0 Build 0
Indonesia: Supp 7 Unit 8 Remove 1
Malaysia: Supp 1 Unit 2 Remove 1
Philippines: Supp 7 Unit 7 Build 0
Thailand: Supp 10 Unit 9 Build 1
Vietnam: Supp 8 Unit 7 Build 1
Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail
|
| DC209 A08 ADJS DUE TUES (dc209) former.trout Feb 11, 11:56 pm |
Scratch that. Read all your emails first, Trout. Sorry guys...
T.
On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 10:53 PM, Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
Didn't get a confirm on my order either... Guess Michaels busy right now...
T.
On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 8:29 PM, Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])> wrote:
[quote:2371951de6]Did we lose Vegas? Dues Tues but late wed and nothing and no response on 2 sent build orders...
Anyone?
From: MICHAEL BOUTOT <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
To: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; 209Thailand Trout former.trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Cc: DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 3:15:18 PM
Subject: DC209 A08 ADJS DUE TUES
If everyone was playing Battles of Napoleon, Sons of liberty, or Flying Circus (let alone Acquire) there would not be all this confusion+ there would be much more happiness
Indonesia:
F Jav - CJa(nc)
Philippines:
F SCS - Luz
Adjustments:
Australia: Supp 0 Unit 0 Build 0
China: Supp 0 Unit 0 Build 0
Indonesia: Supp 7 Unit 8 Remove 1
Malaysia: Supp 1 Unit 2 Remove 1
Philippines: Supp 7 Unit 7 Build 0
Thailand: Supp 10 Unit 9 Build 1
Vietnam: Supp 8 Unit 7 Build 1
Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail
[/quote:2371951de6] |
| DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD - FuzzyLogic (Feb 09, 2009, 3:12 pm) |
Point? That a player wrote an order, using the letters printed on the map, which as best I can tell by actually looking at the map the M and the H are indistinguishable, yet it was misordered. The order was not ambiguous - if there was another space nearby that was HST, then MST and HST need to be different. But given that's how it's labeled, I see no reason not to accept it. But I guess there's no point, and it's in your best interest to see to it that nothing is changed, but I did want to voice that it was a challengeable ruling, and so I challenged it. Er seconded Jason's challenge rather. Am I not entitled to challenge a ruling? Michael has made his statement, doesnt mean I cant point out that a player used the abbreviation printed on the map, and that was misordered cuz apparently we're supposed to make up our own abbreviation based on the textual wording which only exists on some of the provinces. Because you did get it right, I'll give you a pat on the back for that. I never suggested invalidating your order.
From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 3:01 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Rob Ackerley; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com; Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
I don't know if I buy that argument. I used the same map that the GM sent out and ordered to the same spot. Somehow I managed to get the correct abbreviation...
What exactly is the point of all of this, Mike? Again - I don't know if I agree with the call made by the GM, but it is definitely HIS call to make...
T.
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 1:28 PM, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
I know you were, and it was amusing, and it does exemplify the fact that using an unrelated 3rd party app we'd be correct, but using the maps our gm sends out, we'd get misorders. (it was also nice to get an email from you Rob, I think this conversation has resulted in us doubling our total communique in this game thus far! :-p)
From: Rob Ackerley [mailto:rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 2:07 PM
To: Michael Sims; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
I was just trying to interject some humour... I am torn and we all have probably been on both sides of choices like this... Sucks yes, but part of the game and part of the duty of the GM's who graciously grant us their time to manage our games.
I jumping out of this debate now...
From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
To: Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 1:59:35 PM
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
So we need to rely on a 3rd-party program, which Michael does not send out the .dpy files for, instead of using the map he does send, which does have abbreviations on it which are supposedly to be accepted? It definitely looks like HST, irrelevant of what the actual text name is.
Can you at least pls take the abbreviations off the map, if you're not going to allow the ones that are printed on it?
I guess I didnt look at the error initially, but this is silly to not accept an abbrev that's on the map that's sent out.
-mike
From: Rob Ackerley [mailto:rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:51 PM
To: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout; Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Cut and paste from RP Saves all the problems and is a lot less work too!
From: MICHAEL BOUTOT <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
To: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Cc: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 1:49:43 PM
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
1 can clearly read Malacca Strait underneath the 3 letters in dispute. That alone makes it clear. The other earlier errors had the same conflict that should have raised a white flag.
--- On Mon, 2/9/09, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:4f6bf6e59e]From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: "Former Trout" <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: "Jason 4747" <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT" <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "158NewArchersJason Longbow" <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "209Australia Nick Cherrier" <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts" <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "209Vietnam Rob Ackerley" <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>, "DC101tGMStephen Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 11:24 AM
Yeah but you have to agree the map clearly looks like HST,
or certainly could be read that way. I mean if we cant rely
on the abbreviations on the map we're receiving from the
GM, then what can we rely on?
________________________________
From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:20 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason
Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob
Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley; DC101tGMStephen Lytton;
dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Personally I would allow the move as well. However, to be
fair to Michael, he identified WAY early at the beginning of
the game that he was going to be taking a strict
interpretation of the abbreviations. I almost had an order
disallowed because I didn't call the province the right
name - but luckily I included the correct abbreviation in
brackets...
Long story short, I'd say its the GMs call to make. =)
T.
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Michael Sims
<mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
MST and HST look identical in that font. Why are we not
allowing that move? It's not ambiguous, and the
lettering could be read as either one.
-mike
________________________________
From: Jason 4747 [mailto:jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 11:35 AM
To: 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason Longbow;
209Thailand Trout former.trout; 209Australia Nick Cherrier;
209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley;
Michael Sims
Cc: DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Mike,
To be fair, MSt almost equals HSt on my screen, but it is
no excuse for goegraphy stupidity on my part....
As for that and other error, kids, let it be a lesson to
you - multitasking just does not work. And just say no to
drugs.
Jason
[quote:4f6bf6e59e]Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 18:46:41 -0800
From: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Subject: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email]); Githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]Githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email]);
former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email]);
salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email]); rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email]);
mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])
CC: stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
I didn't think I'd see days like these
either. John Lennon. P was on the road away from map but it
is I's moves which are the show. 1. Malacca Strait
clearly can't be HST so not a reading the map issue.
Hold. 2. F jak move to Cjak has no coast. Hold. 3. Only 7
moves - none for F Jav. Hold. The 1 P ret is a given but F
Jav can go many places. Mon due. Indonesian F Jav can
retreat to NIO or Bal or SlS or Slw or ETi
or WTi or CJa(nc).
Philippine F SCS can retreat to Luz.
Indonesia:
F And - Bur (*Fails*)
F TiS Supports F PHe - SIO
F Jav, no move received (*Dislodged*)
F PHe - SIO
F Jak Hold
F Med Hold
A Sab - Kuc
A Kuc - WKa
Malaysia:
F Bru Supports A Sab - Kuc
A Pah - KLu (*Fails*)
Philippines:
F NPS - ECS (*Fails*)
F SCS Supports F NPS - ECS (*Dislodged*)
F SuS Supports F Ceb - SSe
F Ara - BaS
F Ceb - SSe
A Luz - Man
F Tai Supports F SCS
Thailand:
F GTh - Tha(ec) (*Bounce*)
F MSe - Jav
F Sur Supports F MSe - Jav
F Sin Supports F MSe - Jav
F SpI - MSe
F Ked - MSt
A KBh - Tha (*Bounce*)
A KLu Supports F Sin (*Cut*)
A Bur Hold
Vietnam:
F ECS - NPS (*Fails*)
F SSe - SpI
F ViS Supports F Fuj - SCS
F Sai Supports F SpI - MSe
A HKo - Dav (*Fails*)
F Fuj - SCS
F Guz Supports F Fuj - SCS
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