| Update - Slangers (Sep 16, 2013, 1:37 pm) |
| Could we have the end to this game confirmed on the DC site please.It has been over for a while and I want my moment of glory! [Reply] |
| Austria's end game statement - stevieh (Aug 23, 2013, 12:49 pm) |
Congratulations Simon
Steve
On 8/23/2013 4:11 AM, Jeremiah Attento wrote:
Well, this took some time for me to do. I've been quite
busy these past few days. And, oh, it's been an interesting
thread I've seen so far.
Now for my end game statement. It's been a pleasure to play
with all of you, even if I got eliminated after Turkey. One
thing I've learned about playing with Austria is that I should
always do the Hedgehog opening from now on. (Sigh.) I had
hoped to make peace with Italy, but it seems he wanted me out
immediately. I do remember that I lost my temper with Italy on
one occasion, and as a result he (graciously) returned one of
my SC's. I still wonder why he did that. It allowed me to
survive a few turns, though. I wish Germany was more vocal and
open with me; he would have helped me stare down Italy in
Tyrolia, allowing me to do the Balkan Gambit without any
problems. But since nobody wanted to talk to me, I decided to
ally with Russia, mainly to destroy Turkey, but when he turned
against me, I decided to ally with him still. Some of you may
wonder why I did it, but it was because I wanted to
inconvenience Italy. I would rather not bitch about getting
stabbed; I would have done the same. The best I could hope for
was to take somebody down with me. It's not a nice game, but
that's the way things have to be. To paraphrase a quote from a
favorite series of mine, "When you play the game of Diplomacy,
you win or you lose; there is no middle ground."
Well, there you have it. It's not much of an end game
statement, but I don't think I can say anything more. Somebody
in the email thread mentioned something about Simon having
some Jedi mind powers or whatnot: as a Diplomacy fan, I'd like
to learn that as well.  I hope to play with you guys next
time.
Jeremiah[Reply] |
| Austria's end game statement - johnterrencekelly (Aug 23, 2013, 5:11 am) |
Well, this took some time for me to do. I've been quite busy these past few days. And, oh, it's been an interesting thread I've seen so far. Now for my end game statement. It's been a pleasure to play with all of you, even if I got eliminated after Turkey. One thing I've learned about playing with Austria is that I should always do the Hedgehog opening from now on. (Sigh.) I had hoped to make peace with Italy, but it seems he wanted me out immediately. I do remember that I lost my temper with Italy on one occasion, and as a result he (graciously) returned one of my SC's. I still wonder why he did that. It allowed me to survive a few turns, though. I wish Germany was more vocal and open with me; he would have helped me stare down Italy in Tyrolia, allowing me to do the Balkan Gambit without any problems. But
since nobody wanted to talk to me, I decided to ally with Russia, mainly to destroy Turkey, but when he turned against me, I decided to ally with him still. Some of you may wonder why I did it, but it was because I wanted to inconvenience Italy. I would rather not bitch about getting stabbed; I would have done the same. The best I could hope for was to take somebody down with me. It's not a nice game, but that's the way things have to be. To paraphrase a quote from a favorite series of mine, "When you play the game of Diplomacy, you win or you lose; there is no middle ground." Well, there you have it. It's not much of an end game statement, but I don't think I can say anything more. Somebody in the email thread mentioned something about Simon having some Jedi mind powers or whatnot: as a Diplomacy fan, I'd like to learn that as well. I hope to play with you guys next time.
Jeremiah[Reply] |
| Austria's end game statement (dc450) stevieh Aug 23, 12:49 pm |
Congratulations Simon
Steve
On 8/23/2013 4:11 AM, Jeremiah Attento wrote:
Well, this took some time for me to do. I've been quite
busy these past few days. And, oh, it's been an interesting
thread I've seen so far.
Now for my end game statement. It's been a pleasure to play
with all of you, even if I got eliminated after Turkey. One
thing I've learned about playing with Austria is that I should
always do the Hedgehog opening from now on. (Sigh.) I had
hoped to make peace with Italy, but it seems he wanted me out
immediately. I do remember that I lost my temper with Italy on
one occasion, and as a result he (graciously) returned one of
my SC's. I still wonder why he did that. It allowed me to
survive a few turns, though. I wish Germany was more vocal and
open with me; he would have helped me stare down Italy in
Tyrolia, allowing me to do the Balkan Gambit without any
problems. But since nobody wanted to talk to me, I decided to
ally with Russia, mainly to destroy Turkey, but when he turned
against me, I decided to ally with him still. Some of you may
wonder why I did it, but it was because I wanted to
inconvenience Italy. I would rather not bitch about getting
stabbed; I would have done the same. The best I could hope for
was to take somebody down with me. It's not a nice game, but
that's the way things have to be. To paraphrase a quote from a
favorite series of mine, "When you play the game of Diplomacy,
you win or you lose; there is no middle ground."
Well, there you have it. It's not much of an end game
statement, but I don't think I can say anything more. Somebody
in the email thread mentioned something about Simon having
some Jedi mind powers or whatnot: as a Diplomacy fan, I'd like
to learn that as well. I hope to play with you guys next
time.
Jeremiah |
| DC450 France EOG - Slangers (Aug 22, 2013, 8:00 am) |
I guess what you are all trying to do is say "well done, Simon". I accept your good wishes graciously. 
S
Simon Langley-EvansProfessor of Human NutritionDeputy Head of School of BiosciencesUniversity of Nottingham
On Aug 22, 2013, at 1:08 PM, Douglas Kent <dougray30(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
Motivations in Diplomacy are different for different people in different
situations when you are no longer going to win.....
From: Isaac Zinner
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 6:55 AM
To: Douglas Kent
Cc: Simon
Langley-Evans ; Craig - Austria Galad ; Doug1 -
France Galad ; Jeremiah Attento ; kaficek8(at)gmail.com
; Steve Hills
; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com ; Douglas Kent ;
John
Langley
Subject: Re: DC450 France EOG
I thought you knew about it ONLY AFTER Fall 1906,
Now I see you knew about it already from 1906. When it all started.
So apparently you did work with him from 1906 , just as I said you
did.
And now it is me who gave Simon the game and it's all my fault.
Unfortunately, I still can't understand you. However if that makes you feel
better, suit yourself. I don't mind.
On a side note, I don't take diplomacy games ( or any other game for that
matter ) personally. And I'm ready to accept losing games or being eliminated,
I've had my share of both.
Therefore I didn't get angry and I hope I wasn't rude by anyway.
If you think that helping Simon ( who did take Steve's comments personally
and who REALLY got angry ) is a punishment for me , so be it , though I think
this is somewhat childish.
On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Douglas Kent <dougray30(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
Exactly Isaac...1906...BEFORE that I was not working with Russia.
Once it became clear that YOU personally had given Russia a huge advantage by
telegraphing moves to the wrong player, making it nearly impossible to stop
him from winning, I congratulated Simon on his sneakiness and he agreed that
rather than attack me we would punish the foolishness of the person who made
it so easy for him to win. We would eliminate Germany and he would hold
off from taking 18 until then, and I would attack you...if there was a way to
eliminate you too before he got to 18 we would have done that. But it
was too difficult to figure out.
The reason for the attack wasn???t just because you gave him the game by
falling for his tricks, but also because you were unable to see how funny they
were. You got angry. *I???m* the one he impersonated and *I* saw how
funny it was that you fell for it hook line and sinker. Those who get
angry (or rude) over a game of Diplomacy should be punished....so I agreed to
make Simon???s victory take less time, not drag it out.
From: Isaac Zinner
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 2:01 AM
To: Simon Langley-Evans
Cc: Douglas Kent ; Craig - Austria Galad ; Doug1 - France Galad ; Jeremiah Attento ; kaficek8(at)gmail.com ; Steve Hills ; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com ; Douglas Kent ; John Langley
Subject: Re: DC450 France EOG
Till 1906 Italy was fighting Austria , and would not stop ( Steve
did asked them so a couple of times ) , though it was clear there was a huge
Russia emerging. So till then there is no direct evidence.
However in Spring 1906 ( while I was conducting a lot of dip with the
other Doug ) and Russia had 12 !! SC and was a clear threat , what did Italy
do ?
Did he try to stop Russia ? the other way round, he ordered this
:
A Tyrolia - Munich - - This had Russian support
A Venice - Piedmont
Italy decided to turn West and attack France and Germany with Russian
support.
On Fall 1906 he ordered:
F Ionian Sea - Tyrrhenian Sea
A Piedmont - Marseilles (*Bounce*)
A Munich Supports A Russia Galicia - Silesia (*Void*)
Italy continued to attack France. while leaving Russia to continue to
grow to 14 SC. and then said it is too late to stop Russia.
And during all this time he never tried to approach me .( while I thought
I'm dipping with him).
I don't see why working with you to eliminate Germany was a much better
option for me , since it was clear Germany was going to attack you
And having Russia growing on and on with no one to stop it wasn't in my
interest. ( Although it apparently was an Italian one).
As for "fair play" I still feel that impersonating another player might
be a legal and victorious way of a play , however it's on the very edge of
"fair play".
I have learned much from this , and will do my best not to fall for this
dirty ( and legal ) trick a second time.
On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 7:32 PM, Simon Langley-Evans
<slangers(at)me.com> wrote:
Can you back that up with actual evidence, as Doug and I had only
sporadic communication up to 1906? There were no cooperative moves and I was
merely fortunate that the intractable Italy-Austria war allowed me to expand
through a friendless Turkey and the Balkans with no credible
opposition.
It is very difficult to accurately interpret the motives of other
players in the game, especially when the events are not in your immediate
sphere of action. For example, until yesterdayI had no idea that Craig had
started the game trying to get you all to neutralize me. Craig! I thought
you were a friend I had wronged, but now I see your demise was fully
deserved. Doug played a strange game from my perspective and the first few
years left me baffled as to who he was working with (turned out it was
nobody). And Isaac, I felt that you were quite unreasonably wedded to
Germany and illogically fixated on eliminating England (a lengthy process
when Germany was entirely eastward facing) when working with me to seize
German centre was a much better option for you.
As for what's "fair play", I simply refer you to the tag line on the DC
site.
"Diplomacy games may contain lying, stabbing, or deliberately
deceiving communications that may not be suitable for and may pose a hazard
to young children, gullible adults, and small farm
animals."
Simon
Simon Langley-Evans
Professor of Human Nutrition
Deputy Head of School of Biosciences
University of Nottingham
On Aug 21, 2013, at 10:57 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Given the way Italy was playing before this phony mail issue
happened , I doubt it very much , it would have changed anything.
As we are talking on period from Spring 06 to Fall 06. Before
and after that, Italy was playing just the same old game of supporting
Russia without any logical explanation.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 6:47 PM, Douglas Kent <dougray30(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
I will try to write a full EOG later, but let me just state that I
???helped??? Russia in the end game for two reasons...one, because nobody
would write me (which leads to reason #2)...and two, France was
conducting all his Diplomacy with Russia thinking it was me, and I felt
it only right to punish that foolishness by eliminating Germany and
making sure Russia took the win. It wouldn???t have mattered,
because any hope of an E/F/I or F/G/I was destroyed with France writing
to a fake email address...
From: garry b
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 10:38 AM
To: Isaac Zinner ; Craig - Austria Galad ; Doug1 - France Galad ; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com ; kaficek8(at)gmail.com ;
stevieh(at)taosnet.com ; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com ; Cartesian ;
Michael Sims ; Douglas Kent ; Doug2 - France Galad ; Simon Langley-Evans
Subject: RE: DC450 France EOG
As an unaffected party (and DC Moderator), I think it is
only fair to point out several things:
1. Italy (Doug) is a very
established player who also publishes Diplomacy World (an e-zine about
Diplomacy). While it is odd the way things unraveled I can assure you he
is both real and typically a strong, passionate player.
2. With a
third solo it might be time to realize that Simon has some weird Jedi
Mind Trick that enables him to make the best of us make bad Diplomacy
decisions.
3. Having played against him, I can't figure out how
he does it and I too have been frustrated and on the receiving end of a
Simon beat down. I feel your pain Isaac but so far I have seen nothing
that would convince me that he is nothing more than annoyingly
good.
As a player-run community we try to self-police any
shenanigans; typically if they exist they work themselves out because
players have no tolerance for such. I encourage you to join another game
and give it a whirl.
Garry
From: isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013
10:57:59 +0300
Subject: Re: DC450 France EOG
To: cbconnell(at)gmail.com;
diplomacyworld(at)yahoo.com; isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com; kaficek8(at)gmail.com;
stevieh(at)taosnet.com; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com; cartesian.i(at)googlemail.com; mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net; kielmarch(at)hotmail.com; dougray3o(at)yahoo.com;
dougray30(at)yahoo.com; slangers(at)me.com
Sorry ,forgot to include some.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Justin for GMing, you did a great job.
As for the game, It's hard to understand the reason for Russia's
glorifying himself for his Solo.
This was more of a joint Italian / Russian cooperation in order
to get the Solo for Russia.
It does appear as if the Italian was playing for one purpose - to
get a solo for Russia.
Italy conceded his SC (at least 6 SC in 2 turns ) to Russia and
instead of trying to fight Russia had been trying to help him even
more. Go figure.
As it was more of a joint Italian / Russian solo -
congratulations for both Simon and Doug for achieving it.
--Isaac
BTW it turned out that there was a fake email address pretending
to be that of Italy, with which I had made quite a lot of dipping,
till this day I'm not sure if this email address was Russia or Italy
after all.
However this put together with the way Italy was playing made me
wonder if there is an Italian player at
all.
[Reply] |
| DC450 France EOG - egni (Aug 22, 2013, 6:55 am) |
I thought you knew about it ONLY AFTER Fall 1906, Now I see you knew about it already from 1906. When it all started. So apparently you did work with him from 1906 , just as I said you did.
And now it is me who gave Simon the game and it's all my fault. Unfortunately, I still can't understand you. However if that makes you feel better, suit yourself. I don't mind.
On a side note, I don't take diplomacy games ( or any other game for that matter ) personally. And I'm ready to accept losing games or being eliminated, I've had my share of both.
Therefore I didn't get angry and I hope I wasn't rude by anyway. If you think that helping Simon ( who did take Steve's comments personally and who REALLY got angry ) is a punishment for me , so be it , though I think this is somewhat childish.
On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Douglas Kent <dougray30(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
Exactly Isaac...1906...BEFORE that I was not working with Russia.
Once it became clear that YOU personally had given Russia a huge advantage by
telegraphing moves to the wrong player, making it nearly impossible to stop him
from winning, I congratulated Simon on his sneakiness and he agreed that rather
than attack me we would punish the foolishness of the person who made it so easy
for him to win. We would eliminate Germany and he would hold off from
taking 18 until then, and I would attack you...if there was a way to eliminate
you too before he got to 18 we would have done that. But it was too
difficult to figure out.
The reason for the attack wasn't just because you gave him the game by
falling for his tricks, but also because you were unable to see how funny they
were. You got angry. *I'm* the one he impersonated and *I* saw how
funny it was that you fell for it hook line and sinker. Those who get
angry (or rude) over a game of Diplomacy should be punished....so I agreed to
make Simon's victory take less time, not drag it out.
From: Isaac Zinner
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 2:01 AM
To: Simon
Langley-Evans
Cc: Douglas Kent ; Craig - Austria
Galad ; Doug1 - France Galad ; Jeremiah
Attento ; kaficek8(at)gmail.com ; Steve Hills ; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com ; Douglas Kent ;
John
Langley
Subject: Re: DC450 France EOG
Till 1906 Italy was fighting Austria , and would not stop ( Steve
did asked them so a couple of times ) , though it was clear there was a huge
Russia emerging. So till then there is no direct evidence.
However in Spring 1906 ( while I was conducting a lot of dip with the other
Doug ) and Russia had 12 !! SC and was a clear threat , what did Italy do
?
Did he try to stop Russia ? the other way round, he ordered this
:
A Tyrolia - Munich - - This had Russian support
A Venice - Piedmont
Italy decided to turn West and attack France and Germany with Russian
support.
On Fall 1906 he ordered:
F Ionian Sea - Tyrrhenian Sea
A Piedmont - Marseilles (*Bounce*)
A Munich Supports A Russia Galicia - Silesia (*Void*)
Italy continued to attack France. while leaving Russia to continue to grow
to 14 SC. and then said it is too late to stop Russia.
And during all this time he never tried to approach me .( while I thought
I'm dipping with him).
I don't see why working with you to eliminate Germany was a much better
option for me , since it was clear Germany was going to attack you
And having Russia growing on and on with no one to stop it wasn't in my
interest. ( Although it apparently was an Italian one).
As for "fair play" I still feel that impersonating another player might be
a legal and victorious way of a play , however it's on the very edge of "fair
play".
I have learned much from this , and will do my best not to fall for this
dirty ( and legal ) trick a second time.
On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 7:32 PM, Simon Langley-Evans
<slangers(at)me.com> wrote:
Can you back that up with actual evidence, as Doug and I had only
sporadic communication up to 1906? There were no cooperative moves and I was
merely fortunate that the intractable Italy-Austria war allowed me to expand
through a friendless Turkey and the Balkans with no credible opposition.
It is very difficult to accurately interpret the motives of other players
in the game, especially when the events are not in your immediate sphere of
action. For example, until yesterdayI had no idea that Craig had started the
game trying to get you all to neutralize me. Craig! I thought you were a
friend I had wronged, but now I see your demise was fully deserved. Doug
played a strange game from my perspective and the first few years left me
baffled as to who he was working with (turned out it was nobody). And Isaac, I
felt that you were quite unreasonably wedded to Germany and illogically
fixated on eliminating England (a lengthy process when Germany was entirely
eastward facing) when working with me to seize German centre was a much better
option for you.
As for what's "fair play", I simply refer you to the tag line on the DC
site.
"Diplomacy games may contain lying, stabbing, or deliberately
deceiving communications that may not be suitable for and may pose a hazard to
young children, gullible adults, and small farm
animals."
Simon
Simon Langley-Evans
Professor of Human Nutrition
Deputy Head of School of Biosciences
University of Nottingham
On Aug 21, 2013, at 10:57 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Given the way Italy was playing before this phony mail issue
happened , I doubt it very much , it would have changed anything.
As we are talking on period from Spring 06 to Fall 06. Before and
after that, Italy was playing just the same old game of supporting Russia
without any logical explanation.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 6:47 PM, Douglas Kent <dougray30(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
I will try to write a full EOG later, but let me just state that I
"helped" Russia in the end game for two reasons...one, because nobody
would write me (which leads to reason #2)...and two, France was conducting
all his Diplomacy with Russia thinking it was me, and I felt it only right
to punish that foolishness by eliminating Germany and making sure Russia
took the win. It wouldn't have mattered, because any hope of an
E/F/I or F/G/I was destroyed with France writing to a fake email
address...
From: garry b
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 10:38 AM
To: Isaac Zinner ; Craig - Austria Galad ; Doug1 - France Galad ; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com ; kaficek8(at)gmail.com ; stevieh(at)taosnet.com ; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com ; Cartesian ; Michael Sims ; Douglas Kent ; Doug2 - France Galad ;
Simon
Langley-Evans
Subject: RE: DC450 France EOG
As an unaffected party (and DC Moderator), I think it is only
fair to point out several things:
1. Italy (Doug) is a very
established player who also publishes Diplomacy World (an e-zine about
Diplomacy). While it is odd the way things unraveled I can assure you he
is both real and typically a strong, passionate player.
2. With a
third solo it might be time to realize that Simon has some weird Jedi Mind
Trick that enables him to make the best of us make bad Diplomacy
decisions.
3. Having played against him, I can't figure out how he
does it and I too have been frustrated and on the receiving end of a Simon
beat down. I feel your pain Isaac but so far I have seen nothing that
would convince me that he is nothing more than annoyingly good.
As
a player-run community we try to self-police any shenanigans; typically if
they exist they work themselves out because players have no tolerance for
such. I encourage you to join another game and give it a whirl.
Garry
From: isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013
10:57:59 +0300
Subject: Re: DC450 France EOG
To: cbconnell(at)gmail.com;
diplomacyworld(at)yahoo.com; isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com; kaficek8(at)gmail.com; stevieh(at)taosnet.com;
dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com; cartesian.i(at)googlemail.com; mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net; kielmarch(at)hotmail.com; dougray3o(at)yahoo.com;
dougray30(at)yahoo.com; slangers(at)me.com
Sorry ,forgot to include some.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Justin for GMing, you did a great job.
As for the game, It's hard to understand the reason for Russia's
glorifying himself for his Solo.
This was more of a joint Italian / Russian cooperation in order to
get the Solo for Russia.
It does appear as if the Italian was playing for one purpose - to
get a solo for Russia.
Italy conceded his SC (at least 6 SC in 2 turns ) to Russia and
instead of trying to fight Russia had been trying to help him even
more. Go figure.
As it was more of a joint Italian / Russian solo -
congratulations for both Simon and Doug for achieving it.
--Isaac
BTW it turned out that there was a fake email address pretending to
be that of Italy, with which I had made quite a lot of dipping, till
this day I'm not sure if this email address was Russia or Italy after
all.
However this put together with the way Italy was playing made me
wonder if there is an Italian player at
all.
[Reply] |
| DC450 France EOG - egni (Aug 22, 2013, 2:18 am) |
I don't think so,I have written as a reply to Simon, why I think so.
On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 8:24 PM, Douglas Kent <dougray30(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
I think, Isaac, you are blatantly mischaracterizing my moves up to the
final game year or two....in other words, up to when you were conducting "my"
diplomacy with someone else....
From: Simon Langley-Evans
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 11:32 AM
To: Isaac Zinner
Cc: Douglas Kent ; Craig - Austria
Galad ; Doug1 - France Galad ; Jeremiah
Attento ; kaficek8(at)gmail.com ; Steve Hills ; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com ; Douglas Kent ;
John
Langley
Subject: Re: DC450 France EOG
Can you back that up with actual
evidence, as Doug and I had only sporadic communication up to 1906? There were
no cooperative moves and I was merely fortunate that the intractable
Italy-Austria war allowed me to expand through a friendless Turkey and the
Balkans with no credible opposition.
It is very difficult to accurately
interpret the motives of other players in the game, especially when the events
are not in your immediate sphere of action. For example, until yesterdayI had no
idea that Craig had started the game trying to get you all to neutralize me.
Craig! I thought you were a friend I had wronged, but now I see your demise was
fully deserved. Doug played a strange game from my perspective and the first few
years left me baffled as to who he was working with (turned out it was nobody).
And Isaac, I felt that you were quite unreasonably wedded to Germany and
illogically fixated on eliminating England (a lengthy process when Germany was
entirely eastward facing) when working with me to seize German centre was a much
better option for you.
As for what's "fair play", I simply
refer you to the tag line on the DC site.
"Diplomacy
games may contain lying, stabbing, or deliberately deceiving communications that
may not be suitable for and may pose a hazard to young children, gullible
adults, and small farm animals."
Simon
Simon Langley-Evans
Professor of Human Nutrition
Deputy Head of School of Biosciences
University of Nottingham
On Aug 21, 2013, at 10:57 AM,
Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com>
wrote:
Given the way Italy was playing before this phony mail issue
happened , I doubt it very much , it would have changed anything.
As we are talking on period from Spring 06 to Fall 06. Before and
after that, Italy was playing just the same old game of supporting Russia
without any logical explanation.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 6:47 PM, Douglas Kent <dougray30(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
I will try to write a full EOG later, but let me just state that I
"helped" Russia in the end game for two reasons...one, because nobody would
write me (which leads to reason #2)...and two, France was conducting all his
Diplomacy with Russia thinking it was me, and I felt it only right to punish
that foolishness by eliminating Germany and making sure Russia took the
win. It wouldn't have mattered, because any hope of an E/F/I or F/G/I
was destroyed with France writing to a fake email address...
From: garry b
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 10:38 AM
To: Isaac Zinner ; Craig - Austria Galad ; Doug1 - France
Galad ; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com
; kaficek8(at)gmail.com ; stevieh(at)taosnet.com ; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com ; Cartesian ; Michael Sims ; Douglas Kent ; Doug2 - France Galad ;
Simon
Langley-Evans
Subject: RE: DC450 France EOG
As an unaffected party (and DC Moderator), I think it is only
fair to point out several things:
1. Italy (Doug) is a very
established player who also publishes Diplomacy World (an e-zine about
Diplomacy). While it is odd the way things unraveled I can assure you he is
both real and typically a strong, passionate player.
2. With a third
solo it might be time to realize that Simon has some weird Jedi Mind Trick
that enables him to make the best of us make bad Diplomacy
decisions.
3. Having played against him, I can't figure out how he
does it and I too have been frustrated and on the receiving end of a Simon
beat down. I feel your pain Isaac but so far I have seen nothing that would
convince me that he is nothing more than annoyingly good.
As a
player-run community we try to self-police any shenanigans; typically if
they exist they work themselves out because players have no tolerance for
such. I encourage you to join another game and give it a whirl.
Garry
From: isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 10:57:59
+0300
Subject: Re: DC450 France EOG
To: cbconnell(at)gmail.com; diplomacyworld(at)yahoo.com; isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com;
kaficek8(at)gmail.com; stevieh(at)taosnet.com; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com; cartesian.i(at)googlemail.com; mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net; kielmarch(at)hotmail.com;
dougray3o(at)yahoo.com;
dougray30(at)yahoo.com;
slangers(at)me.com
Sorry ,forgot to include some.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Justin for GMing, you did a great job.
As for the game, It's hard to understand the reason for Russia's
glorifying himself for his Solo.
This was more of a joint Italian / Russian cooperation in order to
get the Solo for Russia.
It does appear as if the Italian was playing for one purpose - to get
a solo for Russia.
Italy conceded his SC (at least 6 SC in 2 turns ) to Russia and
instead of trying to fight Russia had been trying to help him even
more. Go figure.
As it was more of a joint Italian / Russian solo -
congratulations for both Simon and Doug for achieving it.
--Isaac
BTW it turned out that there was a fake email address pretending to
be that of Italy, with which I had made quite a lot of dipping, till this
day I'm not sure if this email address was Russia or Italy after all.
However this put together with the way Italy was playing made me
wonder if there is an Italian player at all.
[Reply] |
| DC450 France EOG - egni (Aug 22, 2013, 2:01 am) |
Till 1906 Italy was fighting Austria , and would not stop ( Steve did asked them so a couple of times ) , though it was clear there was a huge Russia emerging. So till then there is no direct evidence.However in Spring 1906 ( while I was conducting a lot of dip with the other Doug ) and Russia had 12 !! SC and was a clear threat , what did Italy do ?
Did he try to stop Russia ? the other way round, he ordered this :
A Tyrolia - Munich - - This had Russian support A Venice - Piedmont
Italy decided to turn West and attack France and Germany with Russian support.
On Fall 1906 he ordered:
F Ionian Sea - Tyrrhenian SeaA Piedmont - Marseilles (*Bounce*)
A Munich Supports A Russia Galicia - Silesia (*Void*)
Italy continued to attack France. while leaving Russia to continue to grow to 14 SC. and then said it is too late to stop Russia.And during all this time he never tried to approach me .( while I thought I'm dipping with him).
I don't see why working with you to eliminate Germany was a much better option for me , since it was clear Germany was going to attack youAnd having Russia growing on and on with no one to stop it wasn't in my interest. ( Although it apparently was an Italian one).
As for "fair play" I still feel that impersonating another player might be a legal and victorious way of a play , however it's on the very edge of "fair play".I have learned much from this , and will do my best not to fall for this dirty ( and legal ) trick a second time.
On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 7:32 PM, Simon Langley-Evans <slangers(at)me.com> wrote:
Can you back that up with actual evidence, as Doug and I had only sporadic communication up to 1906? There were no cooperative moves and I was merely fortunate that the intractable Italy-Austria war allowed me to expand through a friendless Turkey and the Balkans with no credible opposition.
It is very difficult to accurately interpret the motives of other players in the game, especially when the events are not in your immediate sphere of action. For example, until yesterdayI had no idea that Craig had started the game trying to get you all to neutralize me. Craig! I thought you were a friend I had wronged, but now I see your demise was fully deserved. Doug played a strange game from my perspective and the first few years left me baffled as to who he was working with (turned out it was nobody). And Isaac, I felt that you were quite unreasonably wedded to Germany and illogically fixated on eliminating England (a lengthy process when Germany was entirely eastward facing) when working with me to seize German centre was a much better option for you.
As for what's "fair play", I simply refer you to the tag line on the DC site.
"Diplomacy games may contain lying, stabbing, or deliberately deceiving communications that may not be suitable for and may pose a hazard to young children, gullible adults, and small farm animals."
Simon
Simon Langley-EvansProfessor of Human Nutrition
Deputy Head of School of BiosciencesUniversity of Nottingham
On Aug 21, 2013, at 10:57 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Given the way Italy was playing before this phony mail issue happened , I doubt it very much , it would have changed anything. As we are talking on period from Spring 06 to Fall 06. Before and after that, Italy was playing just the same old game of supporting Russia without any logical explanation.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 6:47 PM, Douglas Kent <dougray30(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
I will try to write a full EOG later, but let me just state that I "helped"
Russia in the end game for two reasons...one, because nobody would write me
(which leads to reason #2)...and two, France was conducting all his Diplomacy
with Russia thinking it was me, and I felt it only right to punish that
foolishness by eliminating Germany and making sure Russia took the win. It
wouldn't have mattered, because any hope of an E/F/I or F/G/I was destroyed with
France writing to a fake email address...
From: garry b
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 10:38 AM
To: Isaac Zinner ; Craig - Austria
Galad ; Doug1 - France Galad ; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com ; kaficek8(at)gmail.com
; stevieh(at)taosnet.com ; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com ; Cartesian ; Michael
Sims ; Douglas Kent ; Doug2 - France
Galad ; Simon
Langley-Evans
Subject: RE: DC450 France EOG
As an unaffected party (and DC Moderator), I think it is only fair
to point out several things:
1. Italy (Doug) is a very established player
who also publishes Diplomacy World (an e-zine about Diplomacy). While it is odd
the way things unraveled I can assure you he is both real and typically a
strong, passionate player.
2. With a third solo it might be time to
realize that Simon has some weird Jedi Mind Trick that enables him to make the
best of us make bad Diplomacy decisions.
3. Having played against him, I
can't figure out how he does it and I too have been frustrated and on the
receiving end of a Simon beat down. I feel your pain Isaac but so far I have
seen nothing that would convince me that he is nothing more than annoyingly
good.
As a player-run community we try to self-police any shenanigans;
typically if they exist they work themselves out because players have no
tolerance for such. I encourage you to join another game and give it a whirl.
Garry
From: isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 10:57:59
+0300
Subject: Re: DC450 France EOG
To: cbconnell(at)gmail.com;
diplomacyworld(at)yahoo.com; isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com;
kaficek8(at)gmail.com; stevieh(at)taosnet.com; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com;
cartesian.i(at)googlemail.com; mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net; kielmarch(at)hotmail.com;
dougray3o(at)yahoo.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com; slangers(at)me.com
Sorry ,forgot to include some.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Justin for GMing, you did a great job.
As for the game, It's hard to understand the reason for Russia's
glorifying himself for his Solo.
This was more of a joint Italian / Russian cooperation in order to get
the Solo for Russia.
It does appear as if the Italian was playing for one purpose - to get a
solo for Russia.
Italy conceded his SC (at least 6 SC in 2 turns ) to Russia and instead
of trying to fight Russia had been trying to help him even more.
Go figure.
As it was more of a joint Italian / Russian solo -
congratulations for both Simon and Doug for achieving it.
--Isaac
BTW it turned out that there was a fake email address pretending to be
that of Italy, with which I had made quite a lot of dipping, till this day I'm
not sure if this email address was Russia or Italy after all.
However this put together with the way Italy was playing made me wonder
if there is an Italian player at all.
[Reply] |
| DC450 France EOG - Slangers (Aug 21, 2013, 12:42 pm) |
Of course no hard feelings Craig. Only a fool takes grudges from one game to another.
Simon
Simon Langley-EvansProfessor of Human NutritionDeputy Head of School of BiosciencesUniversity of Nottingham
On Aug 21, 2013, at 6:00 PM, Craig Connell <cbconnell(at)gmail.com> wrote:
No hard feelings I hope Simon? Obviously none of those plans really worked to help me.
This was a strange game from my perspective as well. Everyone seemed to be out for them self with no interest in making any solid alliances. Even after the stab in Norway, Simon was kind enough to do what he said he would do in helping me against Germany.
As to impersonating players.. I understand that even back in the days of playing by postal mail, attempts were made to impersonate other players. Even today, the use of Gray or Black press is an attempt at impersonation. While players may not experience this kind of email impersonation in most games played on Diplomaticcorp, I don't see any problems if it is done. The real problem is the player who is not careful enough to know who he is communicating with (I am guilty of THAT myself in this game).
Craig
On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 10:32 AM, Simon Langley-Evans <slangers(at)me.com> wrote:
Can you back that up with actual evidence, as Doug and I had only sporadic communication up to 1906? There were no cooperative moves and I was merely fortunate that the intractable Italy-Austria war allowed me to expand through a friendless Turkey and the Balkans with no credible opposition.
It is very difficult to accurately interpret the motives of other players in the game, especially when the events are not in your immediate sphere of action. For example, until yesterdayI had no idea that Craig had started the game trying to get you all to neutralize me. Craig! I thought you were a friend I had wronged, but now I see your demise was fully deserved. Doug played a strange game from my perspective and the first few years left me baffled as to who he was working with (turned out it was nobody). And Isaac, I felt that you were quite unreasonably wedded to Germany and illogically fixated on eliminating England (a lengthy process when Germany was entirely eastward facing) when working with me to seize German centre was a much better option for you.
As for what's "fair play", I simply refer you to the tag line on the DC site.
"Diplomacy games may contain lying, stabbing, or deliberately deceiving communications that may not be suitable for and may pose a hazard to young children, gullible adults, and small farm animals."
Simon
Simon Langley-EvansProfessor of Human Nutrition
Deputy Head of School of BiosciencesUniversity of Nottingham
On Aug 21, 2013, at 10:57 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Given the way Italy was playing before this phony mail issue happened , I doubt it very much , it would have changed anything. As we are talking on period from Spring 06 to Fall 06. Before and after that, Italy was playing just the same old game of supporting Russia without any logical explanation.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 6:47 PM, Douglas Kent <dougray30(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
I will try to write a full EOG later, but let me just state that I ???helped???
Russia in the end game for two reasons...one, because nobody would write me
(which leads to reason #2)...and two, France was conducting all his Diplomacy
with Russia thinking it was me, and I felt it only right to punish that
foolishness by eliminating Germany and making sure Russia took the win. It
wouldn???t have mattered, because any hope of an E/F/I or F/G/I was destroyed with
France writing to a fake email address...
From: garry b
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 10:38 AM
To: Isaac Zinner ; Craig - Austria
Galad ; Doug1 - France Galad ; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com ; kaficek8(at)gmail.com
; stevieh(at)taosnet.com ; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com ; Cartesian ; Michael
Sims ; Douglas Kent ; Doug2 - France
Galad ; Simon
Langley-Evans
Subject: RE: DC450 France EOG
As an unaffected party (and DC Moderator), I think it is only fair
to point out several things:
1. Italy (Doug) is a very established player
who also publishes Diplomacy World (an e-zine about Diplomacy). While it is odd
the way things unraveled I can assure you he is both real and typically a
strong, passionate player.
2. With a third solo it might be time to
realize that Simon has some weird Jedi Mind Trick that enables him to make the
best of us make bad Diplomacy decisions.
3. Having played against him, I
can't figure out how he does it and I too have been frustrated and on the
receiving end of a Simon beat down. I feel your pain Isaac but so far I have
seen nothing that would convince me that he is nothing more than annoyingly
good.
As a player-run community we try to self-police any shenanigans;
typically if they exist they work themselves out because players have no
tolerance for such. I encourage you to join another game and give it a whirl.
Garry
From: isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 10:57:59
+0300
Subject: Re: DC450 France EOG
To: cbconnell(at)gmail.com;
diplomacyworld(at)yahoo.com; isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com;
kaficek8(at)gmail.com; stevieh(at)taosnet.com; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com;
cartesian.i(at)googlemail.com; mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net; kielmarch(at)hotmail.com;
dougray3o(at)yahoo.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com; slangers(at)me.com
Sorry ,forgot to include some.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Justin for GMing, you did a great job.
As for the game, It's hard to understand the reason for Russia's
glorifying himself for his Solo.
This was more of a joint Italian / Russian cooperation in order to get
the Solo for Russia.
It does appear as if the Italian was playing for one purpose - to get a
solo for Russia.
Italy conceded his SC (at least 6 SC in 2 turns ) to Russia and instead
of trying to fight Russia had been trying to help him even more.
Go figure.
As it was more of a joint Italian / Russian solo -
congratulations for both Simon and Doug for achieving it.
--Isaac
BTW it turned out that there was a fake email address pretending to be
that of Italy, with which I had made quite a lot of dipping, till this day I'm
not sure if this email address was Russia or Italy after all.
However this put together with the way Italy was playing made me wonder
if there is an Italian player at all.
[Reply] |
| DC450 France EOG - cbconnell (Aug 21, 2013, 12:00 pm) |
No hard feelings I hope Simon? Obviously none of those plans really worked to help me.
This was a strange game from my perspective as well. Everyone seemed to be out for them self with no interest in making any solid alliances. Even after the stab in Norway, Simon was kind enough to do what he said he would do in helping me against Germany.
As to impersonating players.. I understand that even back in the days of playing by postal mail, attempts were made to impersonate other players. Even today, the use of Gray or Black press is an attempt at impersonation. While players may not experience this kind of email impersonation in most games played on Diplomaticcorp, I don't see any problems if it is done. The real problem is the player who is not careful enough to know who he is communicating with (I am guilty of THAT myself in this game).
Craig
On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 10:32 AM, Simon Langley-Evans <slangers(at)me.com> wrote:
Can you back that up with actual evidence, as Doug and I had only sporadic communication up to 1906? There were no cooperative moves and I was merely fortunate that the intractable Italy-Austria war allowed me to expand through a friendless Turkey and the Balkans with no credible opposition.
It is very difficult to accurately interpret the motives of other players in the game, especially when the events are not in your immediate sphere of action. For example, until yesterdayI had no idea that Craig had started the game trying to get you all to neutralize me. Craig! I thought you were a friend I had wronged, but now I see your demise was fully deserved. Doug played a strange game from my perspective and the first few years left me baffled as to who he was working with (turned out it was nobody). And Isaac, I felt that you were quite unreasonably wedded to Germany and illogically fixated on eliminating England (a lengthy process when Germany was entirely eastward facing) when working with me to seize German centre was a much better option for you.??
As for what's "fair play", I simply refer you to the tag line on the DC site.??
"Diplomacy games may contain lying, stabbing, or deliberately deceiving communications that may not be suitable for and may pose a hazard to young children, gullible adults, and small farm animals."
Simon
Simon Langley-EvansProfessor of Human Nutrition
Deputy Head of School of BiosciencesUniversity of Nottingham
On Aug 21, 2013, at 10:57 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Given the way ??Italy was playing before this phony mail issue happened , I doubt it very much , it would have changed anything.??As we are talking on period from Spring 06 to Fall 06. ??Before and after that, Italy was playing just the same old game of supporting Russia without any logical explanation.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 6:47 PM, Douglas Kent <dougray30(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
I will try to write a full EOG later, but let me just state that I ???helped???
Russia in the end game for two reasons...one, because nobody would write me
(which leads to reason #2)...and two, France was conducting all his Diplomacy
with Russia thinking it was me, and I felt it only right to punish that
foolishness by eliminating Germany and making sure Russia took the win.?? It
wouldn???t have mattered, because any hope of an E/F/I or F/G/I was destroyed with
France writing to a fake email address...
??
From: garry b
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 10:38 AM
To: Isaac Zinner ; Craig - Austria
Galad ; Doug1 - France Galad ; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com ; kaficek8(at)gmail.com
; stevieh(at)taosnet.com ; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com ; Cartesian ; Michael
Sims ; Douglas Kent ; Doug2 - France
Galad ; Simon
Langley-Evans
Subject: RE: DC450 France EOG
??
As an unaffected party (and DC Moderator), I think it is only fair
to point out several things:
1. Italy (Doug) is a very established player
who also publishes Diplomacy World (an e-zine about Diplomacy). While it is odd
the way things unraveled I can assure you he is both real and typically a
strong, passionate player.
2. With a third solo it might be time to
realize that Simon has some weird Jedi Mind Trick that enables him to make the
best of us make bad Diplomacy decisions.
3. Having played against him, I
can't figure out how he does it and I too have been frustrated and on the
receiving end of a Simon beat down. I feel your pain Isaac but so far I have
seen nothing that would convince me that he is nothing more than annoyingly
good.
As a player-run community we try to self-police any shenanigans;
typically if they exist they work themselves out because players have no
tolerance for such. I encourage you to join another game and give it a whirl.
Garry
From: isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 10:57:59
+0300
Subject: Re: DC450 France EOG
To: cbconnell(at)gmail.com;
diplomacyworld(at)yahoo.com; isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com;
kaficek8(at)gmail.com; stevieh(at)taosnet.com; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com;
cartesian.i(at)googlemail.com; mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net; kielmarch(at)hotmail.com;
dougray3o(at)yahoo.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com; slangers(at)me.com
Sorry ,forgot to include some.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Justin for GMing, you did a great job.
??
As for the game, It's hard to understand the reason for Russia's
glorifying himself for his Solo.
This was more of a joint Italian / Russian cooperation in order to get
the Solo for Russia.
It does appear as if the Italian was playing for one purpose - to get a
solo for Russia.
??
Italy conceded his SC (at least 6 SC in 2 turns ) to Russia and instead
of trying to fight Russia had been trying to help him even more.????
Go figure.
??
As it was more of a joint Italian / Russian solo?? -??
congratulations for both Simon and Doug for achieving it.
??
--Isaac
??
??
BTW it turned out that there was a fake email address pretending to be
that of Italy, with which I had made quite a lot of dipping, till this day I'm
not sure if this email address was Russia or Italy after all.
??
However this put together with the way Italy was playing made me wonder
if there is an Italian player at all.
??[Reply] |
| DC450 France EOG - Slangers (Aug 21, 2013, 11:32 am) |
Can you back that up with actual evidence, as Doug and I had only sporadic communication up to 1906? There were no cooperative moves and I was merely fortunate that the intractable Italy-Austria war allowed me to expand through a friendless Turkey and the Balkans with no credible opposition.
It is very difficult to accurately interpret the motives of other players in the game, especially when the events are not in your immediate sphere of action. For example, until yesterdayI had no idea that Craig had started the game trying to get you all to neutralize me. Craig! I thought you were a friend I had wronged, but now I see your demise was fully deserved. Doug played a strange game from my perspective and the first few years left me baffled as to who he was working with (turned out it was nobody). And Isaac, I felt that you were quite unreasonably wedded to Germany and illogically fixated on eliminating England (a lengthy process when Germany was entirely eastward facing) when working with me to seize German centre was a much better option for you.
As for what's "fair play", I simply refer you to the tag line on the DC site.
"Diplomacy games may contain lying, stabbing, or deliberately deceiving communications that may not be suitable for and may pose a hazard to young children, gullible adults, and small farm animals."
Simon
Simon Langley-EvansProfessor of Human NutritionDeputy Head of School of BiosciencesUniversity of Nottingham
On Aug 21, 2013, at 10:57 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Given the way Italy was playing before this phony mail issue happened , I doubt it very much , it would have changed anything. As we are talking on period from Spring 06 to Fall 06. Before and after that, Italy was playing just the same old game of supporting Russia without any logical explanation.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 6:47 PM, Douglas Kent <dougray30(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
I will try to write a full EOG later, but let me just state that I ???helped???
Russia in the end game for two reasons...one, because nobody would write me
(which leads to reason #2)...and two, France was conducting all his Diplomacy
with Russia thinking it was me, and I felt it only right to punish that
foolishness by eliminating Germany and making sure Russia took the win. It
wouldn???t have mattered, because any hope of an E/F/I or F/G/I was destroyed with
France writing to a fake email address...
From: garry b
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 10:38 AM
To: Isaac Zinner ; Craig - Austria
Galad ; Doug1 - France Galad ; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com ; kaficek8(at)gmail.com
; stevieh(at)taosnet.com ; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com ; Cartesian ; Michael
Sims ; Douglas Kent ; Doug2 - France
Galad ; Simon
Langley-Evans
Subject: RE: DC450 France EOG
As an unaffected party (and DC Moderator), I think it is only fair
to point out several things:
1. Italy (Doug) is a very established player
who also publishes Diplomacy World (an e-zine about Diplomacy). While it is odd
the way things unraveled I can assure you he is both real and typically a
strong, passionate player.
2. With a third solo it might be time to
realize that Simon has some weird Jedi Mind Trick that enables him to make the
best of us make bad Diplomacy decisions.
3. Having played against him, I
can't figure out how he does it and I too have been frustrated and on the
receiving end of a Simon beat down. I feel your pain Isaac but so far I have
seen nothing that would convince me that he is nothing more than annoyingly
good.
As a player-run community we try to self-police any shenanigans;
typically if they exist they work themselves out because players have no
tolerance for such. I encourage you to join another game and give it a whirl.
Garry
From: isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 10:57:59
+0300
Subject: Re: DC450 France EOG
To: cbconnell(at)gmail.com;
diplomacyworld(at)yahoo.com; isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com;
kaficek8(at)gmail.com; stevieh(at)taosnet.com; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com;
cartesian.i(at)googlemail.com; mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net; kielmarch(at)hotmail.com;
dougray3o(at)yahoo.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com; slangers(at)me.com
Sorry ,forgot to include some.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Justin for GMing, you did a great job.
As for the game, It's hard to understand the reason for Russia's
glorifying himself for his Solo.
This was more of a joint Italian / Russian cooperation in order to get
the Solo for Russia.
It does appear as if the Italian was playing for one purpose - to get a
solo for Russia.
Italy conceded his SC (at least 6 SC in 2 turns ) to Russia and instead
of trying to fight Russia had been trying to help him even more.
Go figure.
As it was more of a joint Italian / Russian solo -
congratulations for both Simon and Doug for achieving it.
--Isaac
BTW it turned out that there was a fake email address pretending to be
that of Italy, with which I had made quite a lot of dipping, till this day I'm
not sure if this email address was Russia or Italy after all.
However this put together with the way Italy was playing made me wonder
if there is an Italian player at all.
[Reply] |
| DC450 France EOG - egni (Aug 21, 2013, 4:57 am) |
Given the way Italy was playing before this phony mail issue happened , I doubt it very much , it would have changed anything. As we are talking on period from Spring 06 to Fall 06. Before and after that, Italy was playing just the same old game of supporting Russia without any logical explanation.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 6:47 PM, Douglas Kent <dougray30(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
I will try to write a full EOG later, but let me just state that I "helped"
Russia in the end game for two reasons...one, because nobody would write me
(which leads to reason #2)...and two, France was conducting all his Diplomacy
with Russia thinking it was me, and I felt it only right to punish that
foolishness by eliminating Germany and making sure Russia took the win. It
wouldn't have mattered, because any hope of an E/F/I or F/G/I was destroyed with
France writing to a fake email address...
From: garry b
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 10:38 AM
To: Isaac Zinner ; Craig - Austria
Galad ; Doug1 - France Galad ; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com ; kaficek8(at)gmail.com
; stevieh(at)taosnet.com ; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com ; Cartesian ; Michael
Sims ; Douglas Kent ; Doug2 - France
Galad ; Simon
Langley-Evans
Subject: RE: DC450 France EOG
As an unaffected party (and DC Moderator), I think it is only fair
to point out several things:
1. Italy (Doug) is a very established player
who also publishes Diplomacy World (an e-zine about Diplomacy). While it is odd
the way things unraveled I can assure you he is both real and typically a
strong, passionate player.
2. With a third solo it might be time to
realize that Simon has some weird Jedi Mind Trick that enables him to make the
best of us make bad Diplomacy decisions.
3. Having played against him, I
can't figure out how he does it and I too have been frustrated and on the
receiving end of a Simon beat down. I feel your pain Isaac but so far I have
seen nothing that would convince me that he is nothing more than annoyingly
good.
As a player-run community we try to self-police any shenanigans;
typically if they exist they work themselves out because players have no
tolerance for such. I encourage you to join another game and give it a whirl.
Garry
From: isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 10:57:59
+0300
Subject: Re: DC450 France EOG
To: cbconnell(at)gmail.com;
diplomacyworld(at)yahoo.com; isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com;
kaficek8(at)gmail.com; stevieh(at)taosnet.com; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com;
cartesian.i(at)googlemail.com; mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net; kielmarch(at)hotmail.com;
dougray3o(at)yahoo.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com; slangers(at)me.com
Sorry ,forgot to include some.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Justin for GMing, you did a great job.
As for the game, It's hard to understand the reason for Russia's
glorifying himself for his Solo.
This was more of a joint Italian / Russian cooperation in order to get
the Solo for Russia.
It does appear as if the Italian was playing for one purpose - to get a
solo for Russia.
Italy conceded his SC (at least 6 SC in 2 turns ) to Russia and instead
of trying to fight Russia had been trying to help him even more.
Go figure.
As it was more of a joint Italian / Russian solo -
congratulations for both Simon and Doug for achieving it.
--Isaac
BTW it turned out that there was a fake email address pretending to be
that of Italy, with which I had made quite a lot of dipping, till this day I'm
not sure if this email address was Russia or Italy after all.
However this put together with the way Italy was playing made me wonder
if there is an Italian player at all.
[Reply] |
| DC450 France EOG - egni (Aug 21, 2013, 4:56 am) |
First time ever that I have encountered such a situation where a player was impersonating another one. using a fake email.As far as I understand this is legal, however I do feel it is on the borderline of fair play.
However I have learned my lesson and will be much more careful from now on.Especially when having Simon as a player.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 6:38 PM, garry b <kielmarch(at)hotmail.com> wrote:
As an unaffected party (and DC Moderator), I think it is only fair to point out several things:
1. Italy (Doug) is a very established player who also publishes Diplomacy World (an e-zine about Diplomacy). While it is odd the way things unraveled I can assure you he is both real and typically a strong, passionate player.
2. With a third solo it might be time to realize that Simon has some weird Jedi Mind Trick that enables him to make the best of us make bad Diplomacy decisions.
3. Having played against him, I can't figure out how he does it and I too have been frustrated and on the receiving end of a Simon beat down. I feel your pain Isaac but so far I have seen nothing that would convince me that he is nothing more than annoyingly good.
As a player-run community we try to self-police any shenanigans; typically if they exist they work themselves out because players have no tolerance for such. I encourage you to join another game and give it a whirl.
Garry
From: isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 10:57:59 +0300
Subject: Re: DC450 France EOG
To: cbconnell(at)gmail.com; diplomacyworld(at)yahoo.com; isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com; kaficek8(at)gmail.com; stevieh(at)taosnet.com; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com; cartesian.i(at)googlemail.com; mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net; kielmarch(at)hotmail.com; dougray3o(at)yahoo.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com; slangers(at)me.com
Sorry ,forgot to include some.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Justin for GMing, you did a great job.
As for the game, It's hard to understand the reason for Russia's glorifying himself for his Solo.
This was more of a joint Italian / Russian cooperation in order to get the Solo for Russia.
It does appear as if the Italian was playing for one purpose - to get a solo for Russia.
Italy conceded his SC (at least 6 SC in 2 turns ) to Russia and instead of trying to fight Russia had been trying to help him even more. Go figure.
As it was more of a joint Italian / Russian solo - congratulations for both Simon and Doug for achieving it.
--Isaac
BTW it turned out that there was a fake email address pretending to be that of Italy, with which I had made quite a lot of dipping, till this day I'm not sure if this email address was Russia or Italy after all.
However this put together with the way Italy was playing made me wonder if there is an Italian player at all.[Reply] |
| DC450 France EOG - Slangers (Aug 20, 2013, 11:42 am) |
I will teach you this skill one day, my young padawan
Simon Langley-EvansProfessor of Human NutritionDeputy Head of School of BiosciencesUniversity of Nottingham
On Aug 20, 2013, at 4:38 PM, garry b <kielmarch(at)hotmail.com> wrote:
As an unaffected party (and DC Moderator), I think it is only fair to point out several things:
1. Italy (Doug) is a very established player who also publishes Diplomacy World (an e-zine about Diplomacy). While it is odd the way things unraveled I can assure you he is both real and typically a strong, passionate player.
2. With a third solo it might be time to realize that Simon has some weird Jedi Mind Trick that enables him to make the best of us make bad Diplomacy decisions.
3. Having played against him, I can't figure out how he does it and I too have been frustrated and on the receiving end of a Simon beat down. I feel your pain Isaac but so far I have seen nothing that would convince me that he is nothing more than annoyingly good.
As a player-run community we try to self-police any shenanigans; typically if they exist they work themselves out because players have no tolerance for such. I encourage you to join another game and give it a whirl.
Garry
From: isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 10:57:59 +0300
Subject: Re: DC450 France EOG
To: cbconnell(at)gmail.com; diplomacyworld(at)yahoo.com; isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com; kaficek8(at)gmail.com; stevieh(at)taosnet.com; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com; cartesian.i(at)googlemail.com; mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net; kielmarch(at)hotmail.com; dougray3o(at)yahoo.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com; slangers(at)me.com
Sorry ,forgot to include some.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Justin for GMing, you did a great job.
As for the game, It's hard to understand the reason for Russia's glorifying himself for his Solo.
This was more of a joint Italian / Russian cooperation in order to get the Solo for Russia.
It does appear as if the Italian was playing for one purpose - to get a solo for Russia.
Italy conceded his SC (at least 6 SC in 2 turns ) to Russia and instead of trying to fight Russia had been trying to help him even more. Go figure.
As it was more of a joint Italian / Russian solo - congratulations for both Simon and Doug for achieving it.
--Isaac
BTW it turned out that there was a fake email address pretending to be that of Italy, with which I had made quite a lot of dipping, till this day I'm not sure if this email address was Russia or Italy after all.
However this put together with the way Italy was playing made me wonder if there is an Italian player at all.[Reply] |
| DC450 England EOG - cbconnell (Aug 20, 2013, 11:02 am) |
Wow, I should have written this sooner... it has been a while.
Congratulations Simon on another Solo. However this is not how I wanted this game to end.
I decided to play again after being a GM for a few games; I had seen Simon play in one of my games and I knew him to be determined and to take any advantage possible. I had hoped to build a 4-6 person alliance against Simon as soon as I knew he was going to play Russia (again). I started to talk with Germany, Turkey, Austria and Italy about what we could do to work against Russia. It seemed to me that no one was taking me seriously and I really didn't get too far with this plan. Germany was perhaps the only person to consider my thoughts, but I made a mistake and sent an email to Germany that should have gone to Russia.
Even though I was plotting against Simon, I was also trying to hedge my options. I was talking with Simon, Steve and Isaac to see where my best alliance might be. By showing my hand to Steve by mistake, I lost any hope alliance with him and he evidently made it his mission to take me out. So even until the Fall of 02, I had not fully decided if I was going to work with Simon or Isaac. But with Simon's stab in Norway, I realized that I too was going to fall victim to Simon's empire. There was a point around spring of 04 where I thought I that Steve might
be interested in working with me again. If that had worked out, we
might have been able to slow Simon somewhat.
On one hand, I was hoping that Isaac would take a stronger role in this game early on. To me it seemed that for several seasons Isaac didn't do anything. I had tried to promote the idea of working against Germany with me, but by Spring of 05 it seemed clear that Germany and France were in an alliance to take me out.
On the other hand, I was grateful that Isaac waited so long to start attacking me. I had been under attack from Germany, but Simon came to my "rescue" and kept Steve busy. I don't claim to be good at this game, but I was truly amazed that I was able to stay alive and hold on for 4 game years. Simon - thank you for helping me even when it slowed down your game.
As much as we all don't like to admit it, taking supply centers is how
this game is won - even if happens to be open and/or controlled by a
friend. Players seem to be concerned about fair-play and honoring
commitments. However, that is NOT this game. Simon has shown us, if we
care to see it, that to win this game a player must take ANY advantage
presented. We will all be better players when we learn that (and to send emails to the correct addresses!)
What I have learned from DC450 is that I am not good at this game. I LOVE the game, I plan to run more games as GM, but I think my enjoyment of the game will mostly come from watching others play... but don't be surprised to see me play once in a while.
Thank you everyone for a fun game!
Craig[Reply] |
| DC450 France EOG - garry.bledsoe (Aug 20, 2013, 10:38 am) |
As an unaffected party (and DC Moderator), I think it is only fair to point out several things:
1. Italy (Doug) is a very established player who also publishes Diplomacy World (an e-zine about Diplomacy). While it is odd the way things unraveled I can assure you he is both real and typically a strong, passionate player.
2. With a third solo it might be time to realize that Simon has some weird Jedi Mind Trick that enables him to make the best of us make bad Diplomacy decisions.
3. Having played against him, I can't figure out how he does it and I too have been frustrated and on the receiving end of a Simon beat down. I feel your pain Isaac but so far I have seen nothing that would convince me that he is nothing more than annoyingly good.
As a player-run community we try to self-police any shenanigans; typically if they exist they work themselves out because players have no tolerance for such. I encourage you to join another game and give it a whirl.
Garry
From: isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 10:57:59 +0300
Subject: Re: DC450 France EOG
To: cbconnell(at)gmail.com; diplomacyworld(at)yahoo.com; isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com; kaficek8(at)gmail.com; stevieh(at)taosnet.com; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com; cartesian.i(at)googlemail.com; mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net; kielmarch(at)hotmail.com; dougray3o(at)yahoo.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com; slangers(at)me.com
Sorry ,forgot to include some.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Justin for GMing, you did a great job.
As for the game, It's hard to understand the reason for Russia's glorifying himself for his Solo.
This was more of a joint Italian / Russian cooperation in order to get the Solo for Russia.
It does appear as if the Italian was playing for one purpose - to get a solo for Russia.
Italy conceded his SC (at least 6 SC in 2 turns ) to Russia and instead of trying to fight Russia had been trying to help him even more. Go figure.
As it was more of a joint Italian / Russian solo - congratulations for both Simon and Doug for achieving it.
--Isaac
BTW it turned out that there was a fake email address pretending to be that of Italy, with which I had made quite a lot of dipping, till this day I'm not sure if this email address was Russia or Italy after all.
However this put together with the way Italy was playing made me wonder if there is an Italian player at all.[Reply] |
| DC450 France EOG - Slangers (Aug 20, 2013, 3:31 am) |
The Tsar yawns... Any good losers out there? The traditional DC sour grapes are getting boring.
Sent from my iPhone
On 20 Aug 2013, at 08:57, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Sorry ,forgot to include some.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Justin for GMing, you did a great job.
As for the game, It's hard to understand the reason for Russia's glorifying himself for his Solo.
This was more of a joint Italian / Russian cooperation in order to get the Solo for Russia.
It does appear as if the Italian was playing for one purpose - to get a solo for Russia.
Italy conceded his SC (at least 6 SC in 2 turns ) to Russia and instead of trying to fight Russia had been trying to help him even more. Go figure.
As it was more of a joint Italian / Russian solo - congratulations for both Simon and Doug for achieving it.
--Isaac
BTW it turned out that there was a fake email address pretending to be that of Italy, with which I had made quite a lot of dipping, till this day I'm not sure if this email address was Russia or Italy after all.
However this put together with the way Italy was playing made me wonder if there is an Italian player at all.[Reply] |
| DC450 France EOG - egni (Aug 20, 2013, 2:57 am) |
Sorry ,forgot to include some.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Justin for GMing, you did a great job.
As for the game, It's hard to understand the reason for Russia's glorifying himself for his Solo.
This was more of a joint Italian / Russian cooperation in order to get the Solo for Russia.
It does appear as if the Italian was playing for one purpose - to get a solo for Russia.
Italy conceded his SC (at least 6 SC in 2 turns ) to Russia and instead of trying to fight Russia had been trying to help him even more. Go figure.
As it was more of a joint Italian / Russian solo - congratulations for both Simon and Doug for achieving it.
--Isaac
BTW it turned out that there was a fake email address pretending to be that of Italy, with which I had made quite a lot of dipping, till this day I'm not sure if this email address was Russia or Italy after all.
However this put together with the way Italy was playing made me wonder if there is an Italian player at all.[Reply] |
| DC450 France EOG - egni (Aug 20, 2013, 2:57 am) |
Sorry ,forgot to include some.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Justin for GMing, you did a great job.
As for the game, It's hard to understand the reason for Russia's glorifying himself for his Solo.
This was more of a joint Italian / Russian cooperation in order to get the Solo for Russia.
It does appear as if the Italian was playing for one purpose - to get a solo for Russia.
Italy conceded his SC (at least 6 SC in 2 turns ) to Russia and instead of trying to fight Russia had been trying to help him even more. Go figure.
As it was more of a joint Italian / Russian solo - congratulations for both Simon and Doug for achieving it.
--Isaac
BTW it turned out that there was a fake email address pretending to be that of Italy, with which I had made quite a lot of dipping, till this day I'm not sure if this email address was Russia or Italy after all.
However this put together with the way Italy was playing made me wonder if there is an Italian player at all.[Reply] |
| DC450 France EOG - egni (Aug 20, 2013, 2:26 am) |
Thanks Justin for GMing, you did a great job.
As for the game, It's hard to understand the reason for Russia's glorifying himself for his Solo.This was more of a joint Italian / Russian cooperation in order to get the Solo for Russia.
It does appear as if the Italian was playing for one purpose - to get a solo for Russia.
Italy conceded his SC (at least 6 SC in 2 turns ) to Russia and instead of trying to fight Russia had been trying to help him even more. Go figure.
As it was more of a joint Italian / Russian solo - congratulations for both Simon and Doug for achieving it.
--Isaac
BTW it turned out that there was a fake email address pretending to be that of Italy, with which I had made quite a lot of dipping, till this day I'm not sure if this email address was Russia or Italy after all.
However this put together with the way Italy was playing made me wonder if there is an Italian player at all.[Reply] |
| DC450 France EOG (dc450) egni Aug 20, 02:57 am |
Sorry ,forgot to include some.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Justin for GMing, you did a great job.
As for the game, It's hard to understand the reason for Russia's glorifying himself for his Solo.
This was more of a joint Italian / Russian cooperation in order to get the Solo for Russia.
It does appear as if the Italian was playing for one purpose - to get a solo for Russia.
Italy conceded his SC (at least 6 SC in 2 turns ) to Russia and instead of trying to fight Russia had been trying to help him even more. Go figure.
As it was more of a joint Italian / Russian solo - congratulations for both Simon and Doug for achieving it.
--Isaac
BTW it turned out that there was a fake email address pretending to be that of Italy, with which I had made quite a lot of dipping, till this day I'm not sure if this email address was Russia or Italy after all.
However this put together with the way Italy was playing made me wonder if there is an Italian player at all. |
| DC450 France EOG (dc450) egni Aug 20, 02:57 am |
Sorry ,forgot to include some.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Justin for GMing, you did a great job.
As for the game, It's hard to understand the reason for Russia's glorifying himself for his Solo.
This was more of a joint Italian / Russian cooperation in order to get the Solo for Russia.
It does appear as if the Italian was playing for one purpose - to get a solo for Russia.
Italy conceded his SC (at least 6 SC in 2 turns ) to Russia and instead of trying to fight Russia had been trying to help him even more. Go figure.
As it was more of a joint Italian / Russian solo - congratulations for both Simon and Doug for achieving it.
--Isaac
BTW it turned out that there was a fake email address pretending to be that of Italy, with which I had made quite a lot of dipping, till this day I'm not sure if this email address was Russia or Italy after all.
However this put together with the way Italy was playing made me wonder if there is an Italian player at all. |
| DC450 France EOG (dc450) garry.bledsoe Aug 20, 10:38 am |
As an unaffected party (and DC Moderator), I think it is only fair to point out several things:
1. Italy (Doug) is a very established player who also publishes Diplomacy World (an e-zine about Diplomacy). While it is odd the way things unraveled I can assure you he is both real and typically a strong, passionate player.
2. With a third solo it might be time to realize that Simon has some weird Jedi Mind Trick that enables him to make the best of us make bad Diplomacy decisions.
3. Having played against him, I can't figure out how he does it and I too have been frustrated and on the receiving end of a Simon beat down. I feel your pain Isaac but so far I have seen nothing that would convince me that he is nothing more than annoyingly good.
As a player-run community we try to self-police any shenanigans; typically if they exist they work themselves out because players have no tolerance for such. I encourage you to join another game and give it a whirl.
Garry
From: isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 10:57:59 +0300
Subject: Re: DC450 France EOG
To: cbconnell(at)gmail.com; diplomacyworld(at)yahoo.com; isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com; kaficek8(at)gmail.com; stevieh(at)taosnet.com; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com; cartesian.i(at)googlemail.com; mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net; kielmarch(at)hotmail.com; dougray3o(at)yahoo.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com; slangers(at)me.com
Sorry ,forgot to include some.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Justin for GMing, you did a great job.
As for the game, It's hard to understand the reason for Russia's glorifying himself for his Solo.
This was more of a joint Italian / Russian cooperation in order to get the Solo for Russia.
It does appear as if the Italian was playing for one purpose - to get a solo for Russia.
Italy conceded his SC (at least 6 SC in 2 turns ) to Russia and instead of trying to fight Russia had been trying to help him even more. Go figure.
As it was more of a joint Italian / Russian solo - congratulations for both Simon and Doug for achieving it.
--Isaac
BTW it turned out that there was a fake email address pretending to be that of Italy, with which I had made quite a lot of dipping, till this day I'm not sure if this email address was Russia or Italy after all.
However this put together with the way Italy was playing made me wonder if there is an Italian player at all. |
| DC450 France EOG (dc450) Slangers Aug 20, 03:31 am |
The Tsar yawns... Any good losers out there? The traditional DC sour grapes are getting boring.
Sent from my iPhone
On 20 Aug 2013, at 08:57, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Sorry ,forgot to include some.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Justin for GMing, you did a great job.
As for the game, It's hard to understand the reason for Russia's glorifying himself for his Solo.
This was more of a joint Italian / Russian cooperation in order to get the Solo for Russia.
It does appear as if the Italian was playing for one purpose - to get a solo for Russia.
Italy conceded his SC (at least 6 SC in 2 turns ) to Russia and instead of trying to fight Russia had been trying to help him even more. Go figure.
As it was more of a joint Italian / Russian solo - congratulations for both Simon and Doug for achieving it.
--Isaac
BTW it turned out that there was a fake email address pretending to be that of Italy, with which I had made quite a lot of dipping, till this day I'm not sure if this email address was Russia or Italy after all.
However this put together with the way Italy was playing made me wonder if there is an Italian player at all. |
| DC450 France EOG (dc450) Slangers Aug 20, 11:42 am |
I will teach you this skill one day, my young padawan
Simon Langley-EvansProfessor of Human NutritionDeputy Head of School of BiosciencesUniversity of Nottingham
On Aug 20, 2013, at 4:38 PM, garry b <kielmarch(at)hotmail.com> wrote:
As an unaffected party (and DC Moderator), I think it is only fair to point out several things:
1. Italy (Doug) is a very established player who also publishes Diplomacy World (an e-zine about Diplomacy). While it is odd the way things unraveled I can assure you he is both real and typically a strong, passionate player.
2. With a third solo it might be time to realize that Simon has some weird Jedi Mind Trick that enables him to make the best of us make bad Diplomacy decisions.
3. Having played against him, I can't figure out how he does it and I too have been frustrated and on the receiving end of a Simon beat down. I feel your pain Isaac but so far I have seen nothing that would convince me that he is nothing more than annoyingly good.
As a player-run community we try to self-police any shenanigans; typically if they exist they work themselves out because players have no tolerance for such. I encourage you to join another game and give it a whirl.
Garry
From: isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 10:57:59 +0300
Subject: Re: DC450 France EOG
To: cbconnell(at)gmail.com; diplomacyworld(at)yahoo.com; isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com; kaficek8(at)gmail.com; stevieh(at)taosnet.com; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com; cartesian.i(at)googlemail.com; mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net; kielmarch(at)hotmail.com; dougray3o(at)yahoo.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com; slangers(at)me.com
Sorry ,forgot to include some.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Justin for GMing, you did a great job.
As for the game, It's hard to understand the reason for Russia's glorifying himself for his Solo.
This was more of a joint Italian / Russian cooperation in order to get the Solo for Russia.
It does appear as if the Italian was playing for one purpose - to get a solo for Russia.
Italy conceded his SC (at least 6 SC in 2 turns ) to Russia and instead of trying to fight Russia had been trying to help him even more. Go figure.
As it was more of a joint Italian / Russian solo - congratulations for both Simon and Doug for achieving it.
--Isaac
BTW it turned out that there was a fake email address pretending to be that of Italy, with which I had made quite a lot of dipping, till this day I'm not sure if this email address was Russia or Italy after all.
However this put together with the way Italy was playing made me wonder if there is an Italian player at all. |
| DC450 France EOG (dc450) egni Aug 21, 04:56 am |
First time ever that I have encountered such a situation where a player was impersonating another one. using a fake email.As far as I understand this is legal, however I do feel it is on the borderline of fair play.
However I have learned my lesson and will be much more careful from now on.Especially when having Simon as a player.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 6:38 PM, garry b <kielmarch(at)hotmail.com> wrote:
As an unaffected party (and DC Moderator), I think it is only fair to point out several things:
1. Italy (Doug) is a very established player who also publishes Diplomacy World (an e-zine about Diplomacy). While it is odd the way things unraveled I can assure you he is both real and typically a strong, passionate player.
2. With a third solo it might be time to realize that Simon has some weird Jedi Mind Trick that enables him to make the best of us make bad Diplomacy decisions.
3. Having played against him, I can't figure out how he does it and I too have been frustrated and on the receiving end of a Simon beat down. I feel your pain Isaac but so far I have seen nothing that would convince me that he is nothing more than annoyingly good.
As a player-run community we try to self-police any shenanigans; typically if they exist they work themselves out because players have no tolerance for such. I encourage you to join another game and give it a whirl.
Garry
From: isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 10:57:59 +0300
Subject: Re: DC450 France EOG
To: cbconnell(at)gmail.com; diplomacyworld(at)yahoo.com; isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com; kaficek8(at)gmail.com; stevieh(at)taosnet.com; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com; cartesian.i(at)googlemail.com; mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net; kielmarch(at)hotmail.com; dougray3o(at)yahoo.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com; slangers(at)me.com
Sorry ,forgot to include some.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Justin for GMing, you did a great job.
As for the game, It's hard to understand the reason for Russia's glorifying himself for his Solo.
This was more of a joint Italian / Russian cooperation in order to get the Solo for Russia.
It does appear as if the Italian was playing for one purpose - to get a solo for Russia.
Italy conceded his SC (at least 6 SC in 2 turns ) to Russia and instead of trying to fight Russia had been trying to help him even more. Go figure.
As it was more of a joint Italian / Russian solo - congratulations for both Simon and Doug for achieving it.
--Isaac
BTW it turned out that there was a fake email address pretending to be that of Italy, with which I had made quite a lot of dipping, till this day I'm not sure if this email address was Russia or Italy after all.
However this put together with the way Italy was playing made me wonder if there is an Italian player at all. |
| DC450 France EOG (dc450) egni Aug 21, 04:57 am |
Given the way Italy was playing before this phony mail issue happened , I doubt it very much , it would have changed anything. As we are talking on period from Spring 06 to Fall 06. Before and after that, Italy was playing just the same old game of supporting Russia without any logical explanation.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 6:47 PM, Douglas Kent <dougray30(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
I will try to write a full EOG later, but let me just state that I "helped"
Russia in the end game for two reasons...one, because nobody would write me
(which leads to reason #2)...and two, France was conducting all his Diplomacy
with Russia thinking it was me, and I felt it only right to punish that
foolishness by eliminating Germany and making sure Russia took the win. It
wouldn't have mattered, because any hope of an E/F/I or F/G/I was destroyed with
France writing to a fake email address...
From: garry b
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 10:38 AM
To: Isaac Zinner ; Craig - Austria
Galad ; Doug1 - France Galad ; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com ; kaficek8(at)gmail.com
; stevieh(at)taosnet.com ; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com ; Cartesian ; Michael
Sims ; Douglas Kent ; Doug2 - France
Galad ; Simon
Langley-Evans
Subject: RE: DC450 France EOG
As an unaffected party (and DC Moderator), I think it is only fair
to point out several things:
1. Italy (Doug) is a very established player
who also publishes Diplomacy World (an e-zine about Diplomacy). While it is odd
the way things unraveled I can assure you he is both real and typically a
strong, passionate player.
2. With a third solo it might be time to
realize that Simon has some weird Jedi Mind Trick that enables him to make the
best of us make bad Diplomacy decisions.
3. Having played against him, I
can't figure out how he does it and I too have been frustrated and on the
receiving end of a Simon beat down. I feel your pain Isaac but so far I have
seen nothing that would convince me that he is nothing more than annoyingly
good.
As a player-run community we try to self-police any shenanigans;
typically if they exist they work themselves out because players have no
tolerance for such. I encourage you to join another game and give it a whirl.
Garry
From: isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 10:57:59
+0300
Subject: Re: DC450 France EOG
To: cbconnell(at)gmail.com;
diplomacyworld(at)yahoo.com; isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com;
kaficek8(at)gmail.com; stevieh(at)taosnet.com; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com;
cartesian.i(at)googlemail.com; mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net; kielmarch(at)hotmail.com;
dougray3o(at)yahoo.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com; slangers(at)me.com
Sorry ,forgot to include some.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Justin for GMing, you did a great job.
As for the game, It's hard to understand the reason for Russia's
glorifying himself for his Solo.
This was more of a joint Italian / Russian cooperation in order to get
the Solo for Russia.
It does appear as if the Italian was playing for one purpose - to get a
solo for Russia.
Italy conceded his SC (at least 6 SC in 2 turns ) to Russia and instead
of trying to fight Russia had been trying to help him even more.
Go figure.
As it was more of a joint Italian / Russian solo -
congratulations for both Simon and Doug for achieving it.
--Isaac
BTW it turned out that there was a fake email address pretending to be
that of Italy, with which I had made quite a lot of dipping, till this day I'm
not sure if this email address was Russia or Italy after all.
However this put together with the way Italy was playing made me wonder
if there is an Italian player at all.
|
| DC450 France EOG (dc450) Slangers Aug 21, 11:32 am |
Can you back that up with actual evidence, as Doug and I had only sporadic communication up to 1906? There were no cooperative moves and I was merely fortunate that the intractable Italy-Austria war allowed me to expand through a friendless Turkey and the Balkans with no credible opposition.
It is very difficult to accurately interpret the motives of other players in the game, especially when the events are not in your immediate sphere of action. For example, until yesterdayI had no idea that Craig had started the game trying to get you all to neutralize me. Craig! I thought you were a friend I had wronged, but now I see your demise was fully deserved. Doug played a strange game from my perspective and the first few years left me baffled as to who he was working with (turned out it was nobody). And Isaac, I felt that you were quite unreasonably wedded to Germany and illogically fixated on eliminating England (a lengthy process when Germany was entirely eastward facing) when working with me to seize German centre was a much better option for you.
As for what's "fair play", I simply refer you to the tag line on the DC site.
"Diplomacy games may contain lying, stabbing, or deliberately deceiving communications that may not be suitable for and may pose a hazard to young children, gullible adults, and small farm animals."
Simon
Simon Langley-EvansProfessor of Human NutritionDeputy Head of School of BiosciencesUniversity of Nottingham
On Aug 21, 2013, at 10:57 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Given the way Italy was playing before this phony mail issue happened , I doubt it very much , it would have changed anything. As we are talking on period from Spring 06 to Fall 06. Before and after that, Italy was playing just the same old game of supporting Russia without any logical explanation.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 6:47 PM, Douglas Kent <dougray30(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
I will try to write a full EOG later, but let me just state that I ???helped???
Russia in the end game for two reasons...one, because nobody would write me
(which leads to reason #2)...and two, France was conducting all his Diplomacy
with Russia thinking it was me, and I felt it only right to punish that
foolishness by eliminating Germany and making sure Russia took the win. It
wouldn???t have mattered, because any hope of an E/F/I or F/G/I was destroyed with
France writing to a fake email address...
From: garry b
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 10:38 AM
To: Isaac Zinner ; Craig - Austria
Galad ; Doug1 - France Galad ; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com ; kaficek8(at)gmail.com
; stevieh(at)taosnet.com ; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com ; Cartesian ; Michael
Sims ; Douglas Kent ; Doug2 - France
Galad ; Simon
Langley-Evans
Subject: RE: DC450 France EOG
As an unaffected party (and DC Moderator), I think it is only fair
to point out several things:
1. Italy (Doug) is a very established player
who also publishes Diplomacy World (an e-zine about Diplomacy). While it is odd
the way things unraveled I can assure you he is both real and typically a
strong, passionate player.
2. With a third solo it might be time to
realize that Simon has some weird Jedi Mind Trick that enables him to make the
best of us make bad Diplomacy decisions.
3. Having played against him, I
can't figure out how he does it and I too have been frustrated and on the
receiving end of a Simon beat down. I feel your pain Isaac but so far I have
seen nothing that would convince me that he is nothing more than annoyingly
good.
As a player-run community we try to self-police any shenanigans;
typically if they exist they work themselves out because players have no
tolerance for such. I encourage you to join another game and give it a whirl.
Garry
From: isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 10:57:59
+0300
Subject: Re: DC450 France EOG
To: cbconnell(at)gmail.com;
diplomacyworld(at)yahoo.com; isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com;
kaficek8(at)gmail.com; stevieh(at)taosnet.com; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com;
cartesian.i(at)googlemail.com; mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net; kielmarch(at)hotmail.com;
dougray3o(at)yahoo.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com; slangers(at)me.com
Sorry ,forgot to include some.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Justin for GMing, you did a great job.
As for the game, It's hard to understand the reason for Russia's
glorifying himself for his Solo.
This was more of a joint Italian / Russian cooperation in order to get
the Solo for Russia.
It does appear as if the Italian was playing for one purpose - to get a
solo for Russia.
Italy conceded his SC (at least 6 SC in 2 turns ) to Russia and instead
of trying to fight Russia had been trying to help him even more.
Go figure.
As it was more of a joint Italian / Russian solo -
congratulations for both Simon and Doug for achieving it.
--Isaac
BTW it turned out that there was a fake email address pretending to be
that of Italy, with which I had made quite a lot of dipping, till this day I'm
not sure if this email address was Russia or Italy after all.
However this put together with the way Italy was playing made me wonder
if there is an Italian player at all.
|
| DC450 France EOG (dc450) cbconnell Aug 21, 12:00 pm |
No hard feelings I hope Simon? Obviously none of those plans really worked to help me.
This was a strange game from my perspective as well. Everyone seemed to be out for them self with no interest in making any solid alliances. Even after the stab in Norway, Simon was kind enough to do what he said he would do in helping me against Germany.
As to impersonating players.. I understand that even back in the days of playing by postal mail, attempts were made to impersonate other players. Even today, the use of Gray or Black press is an attempt at impersonation. While players may not experience this kind of email impersonation in most games played on Diplomaticcorp, I don't see any problems if it is done. The real problem is the player who is not careful enough to know who he is communicating with (I am guilty of THAT myself in this game).
Craig
On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 10:32 AM, Simon Langley-Evans <slangers(at)me.com> wrote:
Can you back that up with actual evidence, as Doug and I had only sporadic communication up to 1906? There were no cooperative moves and I was merely fortunate that the intractable Italy-Austria war allowed me to expand through a friendless Turkey and the Balkans with no credible opposition.
It is very difficult to accurately interpret the motives of other players in the game, especially when the events are not in your immediate sphere of action. For example, until yesterdayI had no idea that Craig had started the game trying to get you all to neutralize me. Craig! I thought you were a friend I had wronged, but now I see your demise was fully deserved. Doug played a strange game from my perspective and the first few years left me baffled as to who he was working with (turned out it was nobody). And Isaac, I felt that you were quite unreasonably wedded to Germany and illogically fixated on eliminating England (a lengthy process when Germany was entirely eastward facing) when working with me to seize German centre was a much better option for you.??
As for what's "fair play", I simply refer you to the tag line on the DC site.??
"Diplomacy games may contain lying, stabbing, or deliberately deceiving communications that may not be suitable for and may pose a hazard to young children, gullible adults, and small farm animals."
Simon
Simon Langley-EvansProfessor of Human Nutrition
Deputy Head of School of BiosciencesUniversity of Nottingham
On Aug 21, 2013, at 10:57 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Given the way ??Italy was playing before this phony mail issue happened , I doubt it very much , it would have changed anything.??As we are talking on period from Spring 06 to Fall 06. ??Before and after that, Italy was playing just the same old game of supporting Russia without any logical explanation.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 6:47 PM, Douglas Kent <dougray30(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
I will try to write a full EOG later, but let me just state that I ???helped???
Russia in the end game for two reasons...one, because nobody would write me
(which leads to reason #2)...and two, France was conducting all his Diplomacy
with Russia thinking it was me, and I felt it only right to punish that
foolishness by eliminating Germany and making sure Russia took the win.?? It
wouldn???t have mattered, because any hope of an E/F/I or F/G/I was destroyed with
France writing to a fake email address...
??
From: garry b
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 10:38 AM
To: Isaac Zinner ; Craig - Austria
Galad ; Doug1 - France Galad ; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com ; kaficek8(at)gmail.com
; stevieh(at)taosnet.com ; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com ; Cartesian ; Michael
Sims ; Douglas Kent ; Doug2 - France
Galad ; Simon
Langley-Evans
Subject: RE: DC450 France EOG
??
As an unaffected party (and DC Moderator), I think it is only fair
to point out several things:
1. Italy (Doug) is a very established player
who also publishes Diplomacy World (an e-zine about Diplomacy). While it is odd
the way things unraveled I can assure you he is both real and typically a
strong, passionate player.
2. With a third solo it might be time to
realize that Simon has some weird Jedi Mind Trick that enables him to make the
best of us make bad Diplomacy decisions.
3. Having played against him, I
can't figure out how he does it and I too have been frustrated and on the
receiving end of a Simon beat down. I feel your pain Isaac but so far I have
seen nothing that would convince me that he is nothing more than annoyingly
good.
As a player-run community we try to self-police any shenanigans;
typically if they exist they work themselves out because players have no
tolerance for such. I encourage you to join another game and give it a whirl.
Garry
From: isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 10:57:59
+0300
Subject: Re: DC450 France EOG
To: cbconnell(at)gmail.com;
diplomacyworld(at)yahoo.com; isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com;
kaficek8(at)gmail.com; stevieh(at)taosnet.com; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com;
cartesian.i(at)googlemail.com; mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net; kielmarch(at)hotmail.com;
dougray3o(at)yahoo.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com; slangers(at)me.com
Sorry ,forgot to include some.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Justin for GMing, you did a great job.
??
As for the game, It's hard to understand the reason for Russia's
glorifying himself for his Solo.
This was more of a joint Italian / Russian cooperation in order to get
the Solo for Russia.
It does appear as if the Italian was playing for one purpose - to get a
solo for Russia.
??
Italy conceded his SC (at least 6 SC in 2 turns ) to Russia and instead
of trying to fight Russia had been trying to help him even more.????
Go figure.
??
As it was more of a joint Italian / Russian solo?? -??
congratulations for both Simon and Doug for achieving it.
??
--Isaac
??
??
BTW it turned out that there was a fake email address pretending to be
that of Italy, with which I had made quite a lot of dipping, till this day I'm
not sure if this email address was Russia or Italy after all.
??
However this put together with the way Italy was playing made me wonder
if there is an Italian player at all.
?? |
| DC450 France EOG (dc450) Slangers Aug 21, 12:42 pm |
Of course no hard feelings Craig. Only a fool takes grudges from one game to another.
Simon
Simon Langley-EvansProfessor of Human NutritionDeputy Head of School of BiosciencesUniversity of Nottingham
On Aug 21, 2013, at 6:00 PM, Craig Connell <cbconnell(at)gmail.com> wrote:
No hard feelings I hope Simon? Obviously none of those plans really worked to help me.
This was a strange game from my perspective as well. Everyone seemed to be out for them self with no interest in making any solid alliances. Even after the stab in Norway, Simon was kind enough to do what he said he would do in helping me against Germany.
As to impersonating players.. I understand that even back in the days of playing by postal mail, attempts were made to impersonate other players. Even today, the use of Gray or Black press is an attempt at impersonation. While players may not experience this kind of email impersonation in most games played on Diplomaticcorp, I don't see any problems if it is done. The real problem is the player who is not careful enough to know who he is communicating with (I am guilty of THAT myself in this game).
Craig
On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 10:32 AM, Simon Langley-Evans <slangers(at)me.com> wrote:
Can you back that up with actual evidence, as Doug and I had only sporadic communication up to 1906? There were no cooperative moves and I was merely fortunate that the intractable Italy-Austria war allowed me to expand through a friendless Turkey and the Balkans with no credible opposition.
It is very difficult to accurately interpret the motives of other players in the game, especially when the events are not in your immediate sphere of action. For example, until yesterdayI had no idea that Craig had started the game trying to get you all to neutralize me. Craig! I thought you were a friend I had wronged, but now I see your demise was fully deserved. Doug played a strange game from my perspective and the first few years left me baffled as to who he was working with (turned out it was nobody). And Isaac, I felt that you were quite unreasonably wedded to Germany and illogically fixated on eliminating England (a lengthy process when Germany was entirely eastward facing) when working with me to seize German centre was a much better option for you.
As for what's "fair play", I simply refer you to the tag line on the DC site.
"Diplomacy games may contain lying, stabbing, or deliberately deceiving communications that may not be suitable for and may pose a hazard to young children, gullible adults, and small farm animals."
Simon
Simon Langley-EvansProfessor of Human Nutrition
Deputy Head of School of BiosciencesUniversity of Nottingham
On Aug 21, 2013, at 10:57 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Given the way Italy was playing before this phony mail issue happened , I doubt it very much , it would have changed anything. As we are talking on period from Spring 06 to Fall 06. Before and after that, Italy was playing just the same old game of supporting Russia without any logical explanation.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 6:47 PM, Douglas Kent <dougray30(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
I will try to write a full EOG later, but let me just state that I ???helped???
Russia in the end game for two reasons...one, because nobody would write me
(which leads to reason #2)...and two, France was conducting all his Diplomacy
with Russia thinking it was me, and I felt it only right to punish that
foolishness by eliminating Germany and making sure Russia took the win. It
wouldn???t have mattered, because any hope of an E/F/I or F/G/I was destroyed with
France writing to a fake email address...
From: garry b
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 10:38 AM
To: Isaac Zinner ; Craig - Austria
Galad ; Doug1 - France Galad ; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com ; kaficek8(at)gmail.com
; stevieh(at)taosnet.com ; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com ; Cartesian ; Michael
Sims ; Douglas Kent ; Doug2 - France
Galad ; Simon
Langley-Evans
Subject: RE: DC450 France EOG
As an unaffected party (and DC Moderator), I think it is only fair
to point out several things:
1. Italy (Doug) is a very established player
who also publishes Diplomacy World (an e-zine about Diplomacy). While it is odd
the way things unraveled I can assure you he is both real and typically a
strong, passionate player.
2. With a third solo it might be time to
realize that Simon has some weird Jedi Mind Trick that enables him to make the
best of us make bad Diplomacy decisions.
3. Having played against him, I
can't figure out how he does it and I too have been frustrated and on the
receiving end of a Simon beat down. I feel your pain Isaac but so far I have
seen nothing that would convince me that he is nothing more than annoyingly
good.
As a player-run community we try to self-police any shenanigans;
typically if they exist they work themselves out because players have no
tolerance for such. I encourage you to join another game and give it a whirl.
Garry
From: isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 10:57:59
+0300
Subject: Re: DC450 France EOG
To: cbconnell(at)gmail.com;
diplomacyworld(at)yahoo.com; isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com;
kaficek8(at)gmail.com; stevieh(at)taosnet.com; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com;
cartesian.i(at)googlemail.com; mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net; kielmarch(at)hotmail.com;
dougray3o(at)yahoo.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com; slangers(at)me.com
Sorry ,forgot to include some.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Justin for GMing, you did a great job.
As for the game, It's hard to understand the reason for Russia's
glorifying himself for his Solo.
This was more of a joint Italian / Russian cooperation in order to get
the Solo for Russia.
It does appear as if the Italian was playing for one purpose - to get a
solo for Russia.
Italy conceded his SC (at least 6 SC in 2 turns ) to Russia and instead
of trying to fight Russia had been trying to help him even more.
Go figure.
As it was more of a joint Italian / Russian solo -
congratulations for both Simon and Doug for achieving it.
--Isaac
BTW it turned out that there was a fake email address pretending to be
that of Italy, with which I had made quite a lot of dipping, till this day I'm
not sure if this email address was Russia or Italy after all.
However this put together with the way Italy was playing made me wonder
if there is an Italian player at all.
|
| DC450 France EOG (dc450) egni Aug 22, 02:01 am |
Till 1906 Italy was fighting Austria , and would not stop ( Steve did asked them so a couple of times ) , though it was clear there was a huge Russia emerging. So till then there is no direct evidence.However in Spring 1906 ( while I was conducting a lot of dip with the other Doug ) and Russia had 12 !! SC and was a clear threat , what did Italy do ?
Did he try to stop Russia ? the other way round, he ordered this :
A Tyrolia - Munich - - This had Russian support A Venice - Piedmont
Italy decided to turn West and attack France and Germany with Russian support.
On Fall 1906 he ordered:
F Ionian Sea - Tyrrhenian SeaA Piedmont - Marseilles (*Bounce*)
A Munich Supports A Russia Galicia - Silesia (*Void*)
Italy continued to attack France. while leaving Russia to continue to grow to 14 SC. and then said it is too late to stop Russia.And during all this time he never tried to approach me .( while I thought I'm dipping with him).
I don't see why working with you to eliminate Germany was a much better option for me , since it was clear Germany was going to attack youAnd having Russia growing on and on with no one to stop it wasn't in my interest. ( Although it apparently was an Italian one).
As for "fair play" I still feel that impersonating another player might be a legal and victorious way of a play , however it's on the very edge of "fair play".I have learned much from this , and will do my best not to fall for this dirty ( and legal ) trick a second time.
On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 7:32 PM, Simon Langley-Evans <slangers(at)me.com> wrote:
Can you back that up with actual evidence, as Doug and I had only sporadic communication up to 1906? There were no cooperative moves and I was merely fortunate that the intractable Italy-Austria war allowed me to expand through a friendless Turkey and the Balkans with no credible opposition.
It is very difficult to accurately interpret the motives of other players in the game, especially when the events are not in your immediate sphere of action. For example, until yesterdayI had no idea that Craig had started the game trying to get you all to neutralize me. Craig! I thought you were a friend I had wronged, but now I see your demise was fully deserved. Doug played a strange game from my perspective and the first few years left me baffled as to who he was working with (turned out it was nobody). And Isaac, I felt that you were quite unreasonably wedded to Germany and illogically fixated on eliminating England (a lengthy process when Germany was entirely eastward facing) when working with me to seize German centre was a much better option for you.
As for what's "fair play", I simply refer you to the tag line on the DC site.
"Diplomacy games may contain lying, stabbing, or deliberately deceiving communications that may not be suitable for and may pose a hazard to young children, gullible adults, and small farm animals."
Simon
Simon Langley-EvansProfessor of Human Nutrition
Deputy Head of School of BiosciencesUniversity of Nottingham
On Aug 21, 2013, at 10:57 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Given the way Italy was playing before this phony mail issue happened , I doubt it very much , it would have changed anything. As we are talking on period from Spring 06 to Fall 06. Before and after that, Italy was playing just the same old game of supporting Russia without any logical explanation.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 6:47 PM, Douglas Kent <dougray30(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
I will try to write a full EOG later, but let me just state that I "helped"
Russia in the end game for two reasons...one, because nobody would write me
(which leads to reason #2)...and two, France was conducting all his Diplomacy
with Russia thinking it was me, and I felt it only right to punish that
foolishness by eliminating Germany and making sure Russia took the win. It
wouldn't have mattered, because any hope of an E/F/I or F/G/I was destroyed with
France writing to a fake email address...
From: garry b
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 10:38 AM
To: Isaac Zinner ; Craig - Austria
Galad ; Doug1 - France Galad ; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com ; kaficek8(at)gmail.com
; stevieh(at)taosnet.com ; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com ; Cartesian ; Michael
Sims ; Douglas Kent ; Doug2 - France
Galad ; Simon
Langley-Evans
Subject: RE: DC450 France EOG
As an unaffected party (and DC Moderator), I think it is only fair
to point out several things:
1. Italy (Doug) is a very established player
who also publishes Diplomacy World (an e-zine about Diplomacy). While it is odd
the way things unraveled I can assure you he is both real and typically a
strong, passionate player.
2. With a third solo it might be time to
realize that Simon has some weird Jedi Mind Trick that enables him to make the
best of us make bad Diplomacy decisions.
3. Having played against him, I
can't figure out how he does it and I too have been frustrated and on the
receiving end of a Simon beat down. I feel your pain Isaac but so far I have
seen nothing that would convince me that he is nothing more than annoyingly
good.
As a player-run community we try to self-police any shenanigans;
typically if they exist they work themselves out because players have no
tolerance for such. I encourage you to join another game and give it a whirl.
Garry
From: isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 10:57:59
+0300
Subject: Re: DC450 France EOG
To: cbconnell(at)gmail.com;
diplomacyworld(at)yahoo.com; isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com;
kaficek8(at)gmail.com; stevieh(at)taosnet.com; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com;
cartesian.i(at)googlemail.com; mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net; kielmarch(at)hotmail.com;
dougray3o(at)yahoo.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com; slangers(at)me.com
Sorry ,forgot to include some.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Justin for GMing, you did a great job.
As for the game, It's hard to understand the reason for Russia's
glorifying himself for his Solo.
This was more of a joint Italian / Russian cooperation in order to get
the Solo for Russia.
It does appear as if the Italian was playing for one purpose - to get a
solo for Russia.
Italy conceded his SC (at least 6 SC in 2 turns ) to Russia and instead
of trying to fight Russia had been trying to help him even more.
Go figure.
As it was more of a joint Italian / Russian solo -
congratulations for both Simon and Doug for achieving it.
--Isaac
BTW it turned out that there was a fake email address pretending to be
that of Italy, with which I had made quite a lot of dipping, till this day I'm
not sure if this email address was Russia or Italy after all.
However this put together with the way Italy was playing made me wonder
if there is an Italian player at all.
|
| DC450 France EOG (dc450) egni Aug 22, 02:18 am |
I don't think so,I have written as a reply to Simon, why I think so.
On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 8:24 PM, Douglas Kent <dougray30(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
I think, Isaac, you are blatantly mischaracterizing my moves up to the
final game year or two....in other words, up to when you were conducting "my"
diplomacy with someone else....
From: Simon Langley-Evans
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 11:32 AM
To: Isaac Zinner
Cc: Douglas Kent ; Craig - Austria
Galad ; Doug1 - France Galad ; Jeremiah
Attento ; kaficek8(at)gmail.com ; Steve Hills ; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com ; Douglas Kent ;
John
Langley
Subject: Re: DC450 France EOG
Can you back that up with actual
evidence, as Doug and I had only sporadic communication up to 1906? There were
no cooperative moves and I was merely fortunate that the intractable
Italy-Austria war allowed me to expand through a friendless Turkey and the
Balkans with no credible opposition.
It is very difficult to accurately
interpret the motives of other players in the game, especially when the events
are not in your immediate sphere of action. For example, until yesterdayI had no
idea that Craig had started the game trying to get you all to neutralize me.
Craig! I thought you were a friend I had wronged, but now I see your demise was
fully deserved. Doug played a strange game from my perspective and the first few
years left me baffled as to who he was working with (turned out it was nobody).
And Isaac, I felt that you were quite unreasonably wedded to Germany and
illogically fixated on eliminating England (a lengthy process when Germany was
entirely eastward facing) when working with me to seize German centre was a much
better option for you.
As for what's "fair play", I simply
refer you to the tag line on the DC site.
"Diplomacy
games may contain lying, stabbing, or deliberately deceiving communications that
may not be suitable for and may pose a hazard to young children, gullible
adults, and small farm animals."
Simon
Simon Langley-Evans
Professor of Human Nutrition
Deputy Head of School of Biosciences
University of Nottingham
On Aug 21, 2013, at 10:57 AM,
Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com>
wrote:
Given the way Italy was playing before this phony mail issue
happened , I doubt it very much , it would have changed anything.
As we are talking on period from Spring 06 to Fall 06. Before and
after that, Italy was playing just the same old game of supporting Russia
without any logical explanation.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 6:47 PM, Douglas Kent <dougray30(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
I will try to write a full EOG later, but let me just state that I
"helped" Russia in the end game for two reasons...one, because nobody would
write me (which leads to reason #2)...and two, France was conducting all his
Diplomacy with Russia thinking it was me, and I felt it only right to punish
that foolishness by eliminating Germany and making sure Russia took the
win. It wouldn't have mattered, because any hope of an E/F/I or F/G/I
was destroyed with France writing to a fake email address...
From: garry b
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 10:38 AM
To: Isaac Zinner ; Craig - Austria Galad ; Doug1 - France
Galad ; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com
; kaficek8(at)gmail.com ; stevieh(at)taosnet.com ; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com ; Cartesian ; Michael Sims ; Douglas Kent ; Doug2 - France Galad ;
Simon
Langley-Evans
Subject: RE: DC450 France EOG
As an unaffected party (and DC Moderator), I think it is only
fair to point out several things:
1. Italy (Doug) is a very
established player who also publishes Diplomacy World (an e-zine about
Diplomacy). While it is odd the way things unraveled I can assure you he is
both real and typically a strong, passionate player.
2. With a third
solo it might be time to realize that Simon has some weird Jedi Mind Trick
that enables him to make the best of us make bad Diplomacy
decisions.
3. Having played against him, I can't figure out how he
does it and I too have been frustrated and on the receiving end of a Simon
beat down. I feel your pain Isaac but so far I have seen nothing that would
convince me that he is nothing more than annoyingly good.
As a
player-run community we try to self-police any shenanigans; typically if
they exist they work themselves out because players have no tolerance for
such. I encourage you to join another game and give it a whirl.
Garry
From: isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 10:57:59
+0300
Subject: Re: DC450 France EOG
To: cbconnell(at)gmail.com; diplomacyworld(at)yahoo.com; isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com;
kaficek8(at)gmail.com; stevieh(at)taosnet.com; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com; cartesian.i(at)googlemail.com; mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net; kielmarch(at)hotmail.com;
dougray3o(at)yahoo.com;
dougray30(at)yahoo.com;
slangers(at)me.com
Sorry ,forgot to include some.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Justin for GMing, you did a great job.
As for the game, It's hard to understand the reason for Russia's
glorifying himself for his Solo.
This was more of a joint Italian / Russian cooperation in order to
get the Solo for Russia.
It does appear as if the Italian was playing for one purpose - to get
a solo for Russia.
Italy conceded his SC (at least 6 SC in 2 turns ) to Russia and
instead of trying to fight Russia had been trying to help him even
more. Go figure.
As it was more of a joint Italian / Russian solo -
congratulations for both Simon and Doug for achieving it.
--Isaac
BTW it turned out that there was a fake email address pretending to
be that of Italy, with which I had made quite a lot of dipping, till this
day I'm not sure if this email address was Russia or Italy after all.
However this put together with the way Italy was playing made me
wonder if there is an Italian player at all.
|
| DC450 France EOG (dc450) egni Aug 22, 06:55 am |
I thought you knew about it ONLY AFTER Fall 1906, Now I see you knew about it already from 1906. When it all started. So apparently you did work with him from 1906 , just as I said you did.
And now it is me who gave Simon the game and it's all my fault. Unfortunately, I still can't understand you. However if that makes you feel better, suit yourself. I don't mind.
On a side note, I don't take diplomacy games ( or any other game for that matter ) personally. And I'm ready to accept losing games or being eliminated, I've had my share of both.
Therefore I didn't get angry and I hope I wasn't rude by anyway. If you think that helping Simon ( who did take Steve's comments personally and who REALLY got angry ) is a punishment for me , so be it , though I think this is somewhat childish.
On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Douglas Kent <dougray30(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
Exactly Isaac...1906...BEFORE that I was not working with Russia.
Once it became clear that YOU personally had given Russia a huge advantage by
telegraphing moves to the wrong player, making it nearly impossible to stop him
from winning, I congratulated Simon on his sneakiness and he agreed that rather
than attack me we would punish the foolishness of the person who made it so easy
for him to win. We would eliminate Germany and he would hold off from
taking 18 until then, and I would attack you...if there was a way to eliminate
you too before he got to 18 we would have done that. But it was too
difficult to figure out.
The reason for the attack wasn't just because you gave him the game by
falling for his tricks, but also because you were unable to see how funny they
were. You got angry. *I'm* the one he impersonated and *I* saw how
funny it was that you fell for it hook line and sinker. Those who get
angry (or rude) over a game of Diplomacy should be punished....so I agreed to
make Simon's victory take less time, not drag it out.
From: Isaac Zinner
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 2:01 AM
To: Simon
Langley-Evans
Cc: Douglas Kent ; Craig - Austria
Galad ; Doug1 - France Galad ; Jeremiah
Attento ; kaficek8(at)gmail.com ; Steve Hills ; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com ; Douglas Kent ;
John
Langley
Subject: Re: DC450 France EOG
Till 1906 Italy was fighting Austria , and would not stop ( Steve
did asked them so a couple of times ) , though it was clear there was a huge
Russia emerging. So till then there is no direct evidence.
However in Spring 1906 ( while I was conducting a lot of dip with the other
Doug ) and Russia had 12 !! SC and was a clear threat , what did Italy do
?
Did he try to stop Russia ? the other way round, he ordered this
:
A Tyrolia - Munich - - This had Russian support
A Venice - Piedmont
Italy decided to turn West and attack France and Germany with Russian
support.
On Fall 1906 he ordered:
F Ionian Sea - Tyrrhenian Sea
A Piedmont - Marseilles (*Bounce*)
A Munich Supports A Russia Galicia - Silesia (*Void*)
Italy continued to attack France. while leaving Russia to continue to grow
to 14 SC. and then said it is too late to stop Russia.
And during all this time he never tried to approach me .( while I thought
I'm dipping with him).
I don't see why working with you to eliminate Germany was a much better
option for me , since it was clear Germany was going to attack you
And having Russia growing on and on with no one to stop it wasn't in my
interest. ( Although it apparently was an Italian one).
As for "fair play" I still feel that impersonating another player might be
a legal and victorious way of a play , however it's on the very edge of "fair
play".
I have learned much from this , and will do my best not to fall for this
dirty ( and legal ) trick a second time.
On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 7:32 PM, Simon Langley-Evans
<slangers(at)me.com> wrote:
Can you back that up with actual evidence, as Doug and I had only
sporadic communication up to 1906? There were no cooperative moves and I was
merely fortunate that the intractable Italy-Austria war allowed me to expand
through a friendless Turkey and the Balkans with no credible opposition.
It is very difficult to accurately interpret the motives of other players
in the game, especially when the events are not in your immediate sphere of
action. For example, until yesterdayI had no idea that Craig had started the
game trying to get you all to neutralize me. Craig! I thought you were a
friend I had wronged, but now I see your demise was fully deserved. Doug
played a strange game from my perspective and the first few years left me
baffled as to who he was working with (turned out it was nobody). And Isaac, I
felt that you were quite unreasonably wedded to Germany and illogically
fixated on eliminating England (a lengthy process when Germany was entirely
eastward facing) when working with me to seize German centre was a much better
option for you.
As for what's "fair play", I simply refer you to the tag line on the DC
site.
"Diplomacy games may contain lying, stabbing, or deliberately
deceiving communications that may not be suitable for and may pose a hazard to
young children, gullible adults, and small farm
animals."
Simon
Simon Langley-Evans
Professor of Human Nutrition
Deputy Head of School of Biosciences
University of Nottingham
On Aug 21, 2013, at 10:57 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Given the way Italy was playing before this phony mail issue
happened , I doubt it very much , it would have changed anything.
As we are talking on period from Spring 06 to Fall 06. Before and
after that, Italy was playing just the same old game of supporting Russia
without any logical explanation.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 6:47 PM, Douglas Kent <dougray30(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
I will try to write a full EOG later, but let me just state that I
"helped" Russia in the end game for two reasons...one, because nobody
would write me (which leads to reason #2)...and two, France was conducting
all his Diplomacy with Russia thinking it was me, and I felt it only right
to punish that foolishness by eliminating Germany and making sure Russia
took the win. It wouldn't have mattered, because any hope of an
E/F/I or F/G/I was destroyed with France writing to a fake email
address...
From: garry b
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 10:38 AM
To: Isaac Zinner ; Craig - Austria Galad ; Doug1 - France Galad ; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com ; kaficek8(at)gmail.com ; stevieh(at)taosnet.com ; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com ; Cartesian ; Michael Sims ; Douglas Kent ; Doug2 - France Galad ;
Simon
Langley-Evans
Subject: RE: DC450 France EOG
As an unaffected party (and DC Moderator), I think it is only
fair to point out several things:
1. Italy (Doug) is a very
established player who also publishes Diplomacy World (an e-zine about
Diplomacy). While it is odd the way things unraveled I can assure you he
is both real and typically a strong, passionate player.
2. With a
third solo it might be time to realize that Simon has some weird Jedi Mind
Trick that enables him to make the best of us make bad Diplomacy
decisions.
3. Having played against him, I can't figure out how he
does it and I too have been frustrated and on the receiving end of a Simon
beat down. I feel your pain Isaac but so far I have seen nothing that
would convince me that he is nothing more than annoyingly good.
As
a player-run community we try to self-police any shenanigans; typically if
they exist they work themselves out because players have no tolerance for
such. I encourage you to join another game and give it a whirl.
Garry
From: isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013
10:57:59 +0300
Subject: Re: DC450 France EOG
To: cbconnell(at)gmail.com;
diplomacyworld(at)yahoo.com; isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com; kaficek8(at)gmail.com; stevieh(at)taosnet.com;
dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com; cartesian.i(at)googlemail.com; mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net; kielmarch(at)hotmail.com; dougray3o(at)yahoo.com;
dougray30(at)yahoo.com; slangers(at)me.com
Sorry ,forgot to include some.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Justin for GMing, you did a great job.
As for the game, It's hard to understand the reason for Russia's
glorifying himself for his Solo.
This was more of a joint Italian / Russian cooperation in order to
get the Solo for Russia.
It does appear as if the Italian was playing for one purpose - to
get a solo for Russia.
Italy conceded his SC (at least 6 SC in 2 turns ) to Russia and
instead of trying to fight Russia had been trying to help him even
more. Go figure.
As it was more of a joint Italian / Russian solo -
congratulations for both Simon and Doug for achieving it.
--Isaac
BTW it turned out that there was a fake email address pretending to
be that of Italy, with which I had made quite a lot of dipping, till
this day I'm not sure if this email address was Russia or Italy after
all.
However this put together with the way Italy was playing made me
wonder if there is an Italian player at
all.
|
| DC450 France EOG (dc450) Slangers Aug 22, 08:00 am |
I guess what you are all trying to do is say "well done, Simon". I accept your good wishes graciously.
S
Simon Langley-EvansProfessor of Human NutritionDeputy Head of School of BiosciencesUniversity of Nottingham
On Aug 22, 2013, at 1:08 PM, Douglas Kent <dougray30(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
Motivations in Diplomacy are different for different people in different
situations when you are no longer going to win.....
From: Isaac Zinner
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 6:55 AM
To: Douglas Kent
Cc: Simon
Langley-Evans ; Craig - Austria Galad ; Doug1 -
France Galad ; Jeremiah Attento ; kaficek8(at)gmail.com
; Steve Hills
; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com ; Douglas Kent ;
John
Langley
Subject: Re: DC450 France EOG
I thought you knew about it ONLY AFTER Fall 1906,
Now I see you knew about it already from 1906. When it all started.
So apparently you did work with him from 1906 , just as I said you
did.
And now it is me who gave Simon the game and it's all my fault.
Unfortunately, I still can't understand you. However if that makes you feel
better, suit yourself. I don't mind.
On a side note, I don't take diplomacy games ( or any other game for that
matter ) personally. And I'm ready to accept losing games or being eliminated,
I've had my share of both.
Therefore I didn't get angry and I hope I wasn't rude by anyway.
If you think that helping Simon ( who did take Steve's comments personally
and who REALLY got angry ) is a punishment for me , so be it , though I think
this is somewhat childish.
On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Douglas Kent <dougray30(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
Exactly Isaac...1906...BEFORE that I was not working with Russia.
Once it became clear that YOU personally had given Russia a huge advantage by
telegraphing moves to the wrong player, making it nearly impossible to stop
him from winning, I congratulated Simon on his sneakiness and he agreed that
rather than attack me we would punish the foolishness of the person who made
it so easy for him to win. We would eliminate Germany and he would hold
off from taking 18 until then, and I would attack you...if there was a way to
eliminate you too before he got to 18 we would have done that. But it
was too difficult to figure out.
The reason for the attack wasn???t just because you gave him the game by
falling for his tricks, but also because you were unable to see how funny they
were. You got angry. *I???m* the one he impersonated and *I* saw how
funny it was that you fell for it hook line and sinker. Those who get
angry (or rude) over a game of Diplomacy should be punished....so I agreed to
make Simon???s victory take less time, not drag it out.
From: Isaac Zinner
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 2:01 AM
To: Simon Langley-Evans
Cc: Douglas Kent ; Craig - Austria Galad ; Doug1 - France Galad ; Jeremiah Attento ; kaficek8(at)gmail.com ; Steve Hills ; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com ; Douglas Kent ; John Langley
Subject: Re: DC450 France EOG
Till 1906 Italy was fighting Austria , and would not stop ( Steve
did asked them so a couple of times ) , though it was clear there was a huge
Russia emerging. So till then there is no direct evidence.
However in Spring 1906 ( while I was conducting a lot of dip with the
other Doug ) and Russia had 12 !! SC and was a clear threat , what did Italy
do ?
Did he try to stop Russia ? the other way round, he ordered this
:
A Tyrolia - Munich - - This had Russian support
A Venice - Piedmont
Italy decided to turn West and attack France and Germany with Russian
support.
On Fall 1906 he ordered:
F Ionian Sea - Tyrrhenian Sea
A Piedmont - Marseilles (*Bounce*)
A Munich Supports A Russia Galicia - Silesia (*Void*)
Italy continued to attack France. while leaving Russia to continue to
grow to 14 SC. and then said it is too late to stop Russia.
And during all this time he never tried to approach me .( while I thought
I'm dipping with him).
I don't see why working with you to eliminate Germany was a much better
option for me , since it was clear Germany was going to attack you
And having Russia growing on and on with no one to stop it wasn't in my
interest. ( Although it apparently was an Italian one).
As for "fair play" I still feel that impersonating another player might
be a legal and victorious way of a play , however it's on the very edge of
"fair play".
I have learned much from this , and will do my best not to fall for this
dirty ( and legal ) trick a second time.
On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 7:32 PM, Simon Langley-Evans
<slangers(at)me.com> wrote:
Can you back that up with actual evidence, as Doug and I had only
sporadic communication up to 1906? There were no cooperative moves and I was
merely fortunate that the intractable Italy-Austria war allowed me to expand
through a friendless Turkey and the Balkans with no credible
opposition.
It is very difficult to accurately interpret the motives of other
players in the game, especially when the events are not in your immediate
sphere of action. For example, until yesterdayI had no idea that Craig had
started the game trying to get you all to neutralize me. Craig! I thought
you were a friend I had wronged, but now I see your demise was fully
deserved. Doug played a strange game from my perspective and the first few
years left me baffled as to who he was working with (turned out it was
nobody). And Isaac, I felt that you were quite unreasonably wedded to
Germany and illogically fixated on eliminating England (a lengthy process
when Germany was entirely eastward facing) when working with me to seize
German centre was a much better option for you.
As for what's "fair play", I simply refer you to the tag line on the DC
site.
"Diplomacy games may contain lying, stabbing, or deliberately
deceiving communications that may not be suitable for and may pose a hazard
to young children, gullible adults, and small farm
animals."
Simon
Simon Langley-Evans
Professor of Human Nutrition
Deputy Head of School of Biosciences
University of Nottingham
On Aug 21, 2013, at 10:57 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Given the way Italy was playing before this phony mail issue
happened , I doubt it very much , it would have changed anything.
As we are talking on period from Spring 06 to Fall 06. Before
and after that, Italy was playing just the same old game of supporting
Russia without any logical explanation.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 6:47 PM, Douglas Kent <dougray30(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
I will try to write a full EOG later, but let me just state that I
???helped??? Russia in the end game for two reasons...one, because nobody
would write me (which leads to reason #2)...and two, France was
conducting all his Diplomacy with Russia thinking it was me, and I felt
it only right to punish that foolishness by eliminating Germany and
making sure Russia took the win. It wouldn???t have mattered,
because any hope of an E/F/I or F/G/I was destroyed with France writing
to a fake email address...
From: garry b
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 10:38 AM
To: Isaac Zinner ; Craig - Austria Galad ; Doug1 - France Galad ; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com ; kaficek8(at)gmail.com ;
stevieh(at)taosnet.com ; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com ; Cartesian ;
Michael Sims ; Douglas Kent ; Doug2 - France Galad ; Simon Langley-Evans
Subject: RE: DC450 France EOG
As an unaffected party (and DC Moderator), I think it is
only fair to point out several things:
1. Italy (Doug) is a very
established player who also publishes Diplomacy World (an e-zine about
Diplomacy). While it is odd the way things unraveled I can assure you he
is both real and typically a strong, passionate player.
2. With a
third solo it might be time to realize that Simon has some weird Jedi
Mind Trick that enables him to make the best of us make bad Diplomacy
decisions.
3. Having played against him, I can't figure out how
he does it and I too have been frustrated and on the receiving end of a
Simon beat down. I feel your pain Isaac but so far I have seen nothing
that would convince me that he is nothing more than annoyingly
good.
As a player-run community we try to self-police any
shenanigans; typically if they exist they work themselves out because
players have no tolerance for such. I encourage you to join another game
and give it a whirl.
Garry
From: isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013
10:57:59 +0300
Subject: Re: DC450 France EOG
To: cbconnell(at)gmail.com;
diplomacyworld(at)yahoo.com; isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com; kaficek8(at)gmail.com;
stevieh(at)taosnet.com; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com; cartesian.i(at)googlemail.com; mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net; kielmarch(at)hotmail.com; dougray3o(at)yahoo.com;
dougray30(at)yahoo.com; slangers(at)me.com
Sorry ,forgot to include some.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Justin for GMing, you did a great job.
As for the game, It's hard to understand the reason for Russia's
glorifying himself for his Solo.
This was more of a joint Italian / Russian cooperation in order
to get the Solo for Russia.
It does appear as if the Italian was playing for one purpose - to
get a solo for Russia.
Italy conceded his SC (at least 6 SC in 2 turns ) to Russia and
instead of trying to fight Russia had been trying to help him even
more. Go figure.
As it was more of a joint Italian / Russian solo -
congratulations for both Simon and Doug for achieving it.
--Isaac
BTW it turned out that there was a fake email address pretending
to be that of Italy, with which I had made quite a lot of dipping,
till this day I'm not sure if this email address was Russia or Italy
after all.
However this put together with the way Italy was playing made me
wonder if there is an Italian player at
all.
|
| DC450 Russian Game End Statement - Slangers (Aug 20, 2013, 1:22 am) |
Thanks everyone for a good game. I think that the result has been inevitable for a while and I am glad that I have finally ground it out to a successful conclusion. With my third solo on DC and having maintained my record of never being eliminated, I find myself radiating copious quantities of smugness. The long lay off due to holidays made the end of the game a bit of an anti-climax, but I am still thrilled.
I got the dream start in being allocated Russia. it is my favourite Power and has delivered me two previous solos in DC games. I think Craig knew what was coming as soon as the allocation was announced. My initial plan for this game was to ally with Turkey and Italy to destroy Austria and then develop the juggernaut. Italy didn't say very much, but it was clear he would be after Austrian territory and Turkey seemed convincing and negotiated well. Spring 1901 was disastrous though. Turkey broke all of the agreed DMZs and I found myself under heavy siege to the south. Without German cooperation over Sweden I would have been in big trouble. The next few seasons were about consolidation and defense, whilst rebuilding trust and an alliance with Austria. I took Norway from England against my better judgement, purely to fuel some growth to get the edge over Turkey. As the stalemate grew to the south I convinced Turkey to switch sides and attack Austria with me- but I was lying and I hit him hard, sealing his demise.
My attack on Germany came next. This was premature, but necessary to preserve England for a little extra time and prevent a strong F-G alliance developing. I made a mistake really, but got away with it due to some poor build choices from Germany. 3 fleets was way over the top and kept my central corridor safe. As a result I was free to overrun Austria, with loose cooperation from Italy. Austria remained focused on vengeance for the early attack against him by Italy and remained prepared to work with me as a puppet to drive Italy out of the Balkans. It seemed a strange decision on Jeremiah's part, but one for which I am immensely grateful. From this point in the game I knew that I would eventually win. Italy had the chance to slow me down towards the end, but instead opted to try and eliminate Germany with me. This suited my plans for world domination very well.
Initial negotiations were good, but after the first few years the game changed and people stopped talking. Diplomacy fell by the wayside and communications became random one- liners (apart from Austria) and so I decided to treat the game as a game of gunboat. I attacked everyone and everything I could and played the most aggressive game that I ever have attempted. This was spurred on particularly by the disgraceful insulting behavior of one player. Diplomacy is a game of negotiation, dirty tricks, deceit and skulduggery. if you can't engage with that and accept being stabbed without resorting to abuse, then you should not be playing. In contrast Craig, Sean and Jeremiah all took it on the chin and were true gents.
With no organized resistance and the total refusal of France to take positive action, everything went well for me. The thing I feared most was that France (who was of similar size to me) would abandon the attack on England and instead form an EIF grouping to move through Germany and challenge me. However Isaac seemed determined to kill England and to stick by Germany no matter what. This handed me the win.
Jeremiah- you had it tough as Austria, particularly as Doug decided to get rid of you from the start. Thanks for being such a good friend and ally, even though I was hurting you more than anyone else. This win would have been impossible without our alliance. Good luck with your other games- success will come as a reward for your commitment to communicate and plan.
Craig- I was really sorry after I took Norway from you. I think we could have allied well and achieved an interesting game together. Maybe next time - if you can trust me (guess I had better not be Russia).
Isaac- sorry if I offended you by suggesting you we're a new player. I didn't mean to sound patronizing. However, your moves were a mystery to me for a long time and I think you missed a chance here for a better result than just survival. We should have talked more.
Steve- I promised you pay back and you got it. Hopefully we will not meet again.
Doug- that was fun! Thanks for providing some tremendous entertainment in the endgame.
Sean- I was really hoping that I would finally get to play a juggernaut in this game, but you thought differently. Your strong opening had me seriously rattled, but thankfully you couldn't win Austria over to your cause. You played well until you were overwhelmed.
Thanks Justin for being efficient and regular in your GM activities- a flawless performance. Being GM is always a challenge and you can never please everybody all of the time. Thanks for giving so much of your time to the game- hugely appreciated.
Simon[Reply] |
| DC450 Spring 07 Due Fri 06/28 - Joral (Aug 19, 2013, 10:06 pm) |
Forget my head were it not attached. This time with maps.
-----Original Message-----
From: joral(at)darkenedpath.com
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2013 11:05pm
To: joral(at)darkenedpath.com
Cc: cbconnell(at)gmail.com, diplomacyworld(at)yahoo.com, isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com, freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com, kaficek8(at)gmail.com, slangers(at)me.com, stevieh(at)taosnet.com, dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Subject: Re: DC450 Spring 07 Due Fri 06/28
Finally got everything back to normal. Will update the site in the next few days I hope.
France A Spain can retreat to Portugal, but this doesn't have any effect on Russia's solid 23 center solo victory. Congratulations Simon.
Justin
Fall 08 orders:
France:
A Belgium - Holland (*Fails*)
A Burgundy - Marseilles
F English Channel Convoys A London - Belgium
A Gascony Supports A Burgundy - Marseilles
A London - Belgium (*Fails*)
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean Supports A Spain
A Paris - Burgundy
A Spain Supports A Burgundy - Marseilles (*Dislodged*)
Germany:
F Baltic Sea, no move received
Italy:
F Gulf of Lyon Supports A Marseilles - Spain
A Marseilles - Spain
A Ruhr - Holland
A Venice - Rome
F Western Mediterranean Supports A Marseilles - Spain
Russia:
A Berlin Supports A Munich
A Budapest - Trieste
A Denmark Supports F Kiel
A Greece Hold
F Ionian Sea - Naples
F Kiel Supports A Ruhr - Holland
A Munich Hold
F North Sea - Edinburgh
F Norway - North Sea
A Prussia Supports A Berlin
A Silesia Supports A Munich
F Skagerrak Supports F Norway - North Sea
A Smyrna Hold
F Sweden Hold
A Trieste - Venice
A Tyrolia Supports A Trieste - Venice
A Vienna - Bohemia
-----Original Message-----
From: joral(at)darkenedpath.com
Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013 10:47pm
To: "Justin Card"
Cc: cbconnell(at)gmail.com, diplomacyworld(at)yahoo.com, isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com, freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com, kaficek8(at)gmail.com, slangers(at)me.com, stevieh(at)taosnet.com, dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Subject: Re: DC450 Spring 07 Due Fri 06/28
!#$%^&*()
Sorry about that guys. Lost ability to get at email for a few days due to having to rebuild my computer. The dpy file is safely stored on dropbox though, and now that I'm back, I'll get the final results out some time tomorrow.
Although, to kill the suspense, Simon wins this one.
Justin
-----Original Message-----
From: "Justin Card"
Sent: Friday, August 2, 2013 7:00am
To: "Justin Card"
Cc: cbconnell(at)gmail.com, diplomacyworld(at)yahoo.com, isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com, freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com, kaficek8(at)gmail.com, slangers(at)me.com, stevieh(at)taosnet.com, dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Subject: Re: DC450 Spring 07 Due Fri 06/28
This is what I get for not paying attention. Isaac is on vacation until
Aug 10th.
I'll extend it until the 12th, so he can get moves in (if you find email
and can send sooner, that's great as well.)
Justin
On 07/29/2013 07:54 PM, Justin Card wrote:
Another Russian solo fails, and so on to fall.
Let's make this one Sunday, August 04.
France:
A Belgium Supports A Picardy - Burgundy
A Brest - Paris
F English Channel - North Sea (*Fails*)
A Gascony - Marseilles (*Fails*)
A London Hold
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean Supports A Spain
A Picardy - Burgundy
A Spain Supports A Gascony - Marseilles (*Cut*)
Germany:
F Baltic Sea, no move received
A Berlin, no move received (*Disbanded*)
A Kiel, no move received (*Disbanded*)
Italy:
A Burgundy Supports A Marseilles - Gascony (*Disbanded*)
F Gulf of Lyon - Spain(sc) (*Fails*)
A Marseilles - Gascony (*Fails*)
A Munich - Ruhr
F Tyrrhenian Sea - Western Mediterranean
A Venice Hold
Russia:
F Aegean Sea - Ionian Sea
A Bohemia - Munich
A Budapest Supports A Serbia - Trieste
A Denmark Supports F Helgoland Bight - Kiel
A Greece Hold
F Helgoland Bight - Kiel
F Norway - North Sea
A Prussia - Berlin
A Serbia - Trieste
A Silesia Supports A Prussia - Berlin
F Skagerrak Supports F Norway - North Sea
A Smyrna Hold
F St Petersburg(nc) - Norway
F Sweden - Baltic Sea (*Fails*)
A Trieste - Tyrolia
A Vienna Supports A Trieste - Tyrolia
A Warsaw - Prussia[Reply] |
| DC450 Spring 07 Due Fri 06/28 - Joral (Aug 19, 2013, 10:05 pm) |
Finally got everything back to normal. Will update the site in the next few days I hope.
France A Spain can retreat to Portugal, but this doesn't have any effect on Russia's solid 23 center solo victory. Congratulations Simon.
Justin
Fall 08 orders:
France:
A Belgium - Holland (*Fails*)
A Burgundy - Marseilles
F English Channel Convoys A London - Belgium
A Gascony Supports A Burgundy - Marseilles
A London - Belgium (*Fails*)
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean Supports A Spain
A Paris - Burgundy
A Spain Supports A Burgundy - Marseilles (*Dislodged*)
Germany:
F Baltic Sea, no move received
Italy:
F Gulf of Lyon Supports A Marseilles - Spain
A Marseilles - Spain
A Ruhr - Holland
A Venice - Rome
F Western Mediterranean Supports A Marseilles - Spain
Russia:
A Berlin Supports A Munich
A Budapest - Trieste
A Denmark Supports F Kiel
A Greece Hold
F Ionian Sea - Naples
F Kiel Supports A Ruhr - Holland
A Munich Hold
F North Sea - Edinburgh
F Norway - North Sea
A Prussia Supports A Berlin
A Silesia Supports A Munich
F Skagerrak Supports F Norway - North Sea
A Smyrna Hold
F Sweden Hold
A Trieste - Venice
A Tyrolia Supports A Trieste - Venice
A Vienna - Bohemia
-----Original Message-----
From: joral(at)darkenedpath.com
Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013 10:47pm
To: "Justin Card"
Cc: cbconnell(at)gmail.com, diplomacyworld(at)yahoo.com, isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com, freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com, kaficek8(at)gmail.com, slangers(at)me.com, stevieh(at)taosnet.com, dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Subject: Re: DC450 Spring 07 Due Fri 06/28
!#$%^&*()
Sorry about that guys. Lost ability to get at email for a few days due to having to rebuild my computer. The dpy file is safely stored on dropbox though, and now that I'm back, I'll get the final results out some time tomorrow.
Although, to kill the suspense, Simon wins this one.
Justin
-----Original Message-----
From: "Justin Card"
Sent: Friday, August 2, 2013 7:00am
To: "Justin Card"
Cc: cbconnell(at)gmail.com, diplomacyworld(at)yahoo.com, isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com, freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com, kaficek8(at)gmail.com, slangers(at)me.com, stevieh(at)taosnet.com, dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Subject: Re: DC450 Spring 07 Due Fri 06/28
This is what I get for not paying attention. Isaac is on vacation until
Aug 10th.
I'll extend it until the 12th, so he can get moves in (if you find email
and can send sooner, that's great as well.)
Justin
On 07/29/2013 07:54 PM, Justin Card wrote:
Another Russian solo fails, and so on to fall.
Let's make this one Sunday, August 04.
France:
A Belgium Supports A Picardy - Burgundy
A Brest - Paris
F English Channel - North Sea (*Fails*)
A Gascony - Marseilles (*Fails*)
A London Hold
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean Supports A Spain
A Picardy - Burgundy
A Spain Supports A Gascony - Marseilles (*Cut*)
Germany:
F Baltic Sea, no move received
A Berlin, no move received (*Disbanded*)
A Kiel, no move received (*Disbanded*)
Italy:
A Burgundy Supports A Marseilles - Gascony (*Disbanded*)
F Gulf of Lyon - Spain(sc) (*Fails*)
A Marseilles - Gascony (*Fails*)
A Munich - Ruhr
F Tyrrhenian Sea - Western Mediterranean
A Venice Hold
Russia:
F Aegean Sea - Ionian Sea
A Bohemia - Munich
A Budapest Supports A Serbia - Trieste
A Denmark Supports F Helgoland Bight - Kiel
A Greece Hold
F Helgoland Bight - Kiel
F Norway - North Sea
A Prussia - Berlin
A Serbia - Trieste
A Silesia Supports A Prussia - Berlin
F Skagerrak Supports F Norway - North Sea
A Smyrna Hold
F St Petersburg(nc) - Norway
F Sweden - Baltic Sea (*Fails*)
A Trieste - Tyrolia
A Vienna Supports A Trieste - Tyrolia
A Warsaw - Prussia[Reply] |
| DC450 Spring 07 Due Fri 06/28 - Joral (Aug 16, 2013, 9:47 pm) |
!#$%^&*()
Sorry about that guys. Lost ability to get at email for a few days due to having to rebuild my computer. The dpy file is safely stored on dropbox though, and now that I'm back, I'll get the final results out some time tomorrow.
Although, to kill the suspense, Simon wins this one.
Justin
-----Original Message-----
From: "Justin Card"
Sent: Friday, August 2, 2013 7:00am
To: "Justin Card"
Cc: cbconnell(at)gmail.com, diplomacyworld(at)yahoo.com, isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com, freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com, kaficek8(at)gmail.com, slangers(at)me.com, stevieh(at)taosnet.com, dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Subject: Re: DC450 Spring 07 Due Fri 06/28
This is what I get for not paying attention. Isaac is on vacation until
Aug 10th.
I'll extend it until the 12th, so he can get moves in (if you find email
and can send sooner, that's great as well.)
Justin
On 07/29/2013 07:54 PM, Justin Card wrote:
Another Russian solo fails, and so on to fall.
Let's make this one Sunday, August 04.
France:
A Belgium Supports A Picardy - Burgundy
A Brest - Paris
F English Channel - North Sea (*Fails*)
A Gascony - Marseilles (*Fails*)
A London Hold
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean Supports A Spain
A Picardy - Burgundy
A Spain Supports A Gascony - Marseilles (*Cut*)
Germany:
F Baltic Sea, no move received
A Berlin, no move received (*Disbanded*)
A Kiel, no move received (*Disbanded*)
Italy:
A Burgundy Supports A Marseilles - Gascony (*Disbanded*)
F Gulf of Lyon - Spain(sc) (*Fails*)
A Marseilles - Gascony (*Fails*)
A Munich - Ruhr
F Tyrrhenian Sea - Western Mediterranean
A Venice Hold
Russia:
F Aegean Sea - Ionian Sea
A Bohemia - Munich
A Budapest Supports A Serbia - Trieste
A Denmark Supports F Helgoland Bight - Kiel
A Greece Hold
F Helgoland Bight - Kiel
F Norway - North Sea
A Prussia - Berlin
A Serbia - Trieste
A Silesia Supports A Prussia - Berlin
F Skagerrak Supports F Norway - North Sea
A Smyrna Hold
F St Petersburg(nc) - Norway
F Sweden - Baltic Sea (*Fails*)
A Trieste - Tyrolia
A Vienna Supports A Trieste - Tyrolia
A Warsaw - Prussia[Reply] |
| DC450 Spring 07 Due Fri 06/28 - Joral (Aug 02, 2013, 6:00 am) |
This is what I get for not paying attention. Isaac is on vacation until
Aug 10th.
I'll extend it until the 12th, so he can get moves in (if you find email
and can send sooner, that's great as well.)
Justin
On 07/29/2013 07:54 PM, Justin Card wrote:
Another Russian solo fails, and so on to fall.
Let's make this one Sunday, August 04.
France:
A Belgium Supports A Picardy - Burgundy
A Brest - Paris
F English Channel - North Sea (*Fails*)
A Gascony - Marseilles (*Fails*)
A London Hold
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean Supports A Spain
A Picardy - Burgundy
A Spain Supports A Gascony - Marseilles (*Cut*)
Germany:
F Baltic Sea, no move received
A Berlin, no move received (*Disbanded*)
A Kiel, no move received (*Disbanded*)
Italy:
A Burgundy Supports A Marseilles - Gascony (*Disbanded*)
F Gulf of Lyon - Spain(sc) (*Fails*)
A Marseilles - Gascony (*Fails*)
A Munich - Ruhr
F Tyrrhenian Sea - Western Mediterranean
A Venice Hold
Russia:
F Aegean Sea - Ionian Sea
A Bohemia - Munich
A Budapest Supports A Serbia - Trieste
A Denmark Supports F Helgoland Bight - Kiel
A Greece Hold
F Helgoland Bight - Kiel
F Norway - North Sea
A Prussia - Berlin
A Serbia - Trieste
A Silesia Supports A Prussia - Berlin
F Skagerrak Supports F Norway - North Sea
A Smyrna Hold
F St Petersburg(nc) - Norway
F Sweden - Baltic Sea (*Fails*)
A Trieste - Tyrolia
A Vienna Supports A Trieste - Tyrolia
A Warsaw - Prussia[Reply] |
| DC450 Spring 07 Due Fri 06/28 - Joral (Jul 29, 2013, 6:54 pm) |
Another Russian solo fails, and so on to fall.
Let's make this one Sunday, August 04.
France:
A Belgium Supports A Picardy - Burgundy
A Brest - Paris
F English Channel - North Sea (*Fails*)
A Gascony - Marseilles (*Fails*)
A London Hold
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean Supports A Spain
A Picardy - Burgundy
A Spain Supports A Gascony - Marseilles (*Cut*)
Germany:
F Baltic Sea, no move received
A Berlin, no move received (*Disbanded*)
A Kiel, no move received (*Disbanded*)
Italy:
A Burgundy Supports A Marseilles - Gascony (*Disbanded*)
F Gulf of Lyon - Spain(sc) (*Fails*)
A Marseilles - Gascony (*Fails*)
A Munich - Ruhr
F Tyrrhenian Sea - Western Mediterranean
A Venice Hold
Russia:
F Aegean Sea - Ionian Sea
A Bohemia - Munich
A Budapest Supports A Serbia - Trieste
A Denmark Supports F Helgoland Bight - Kiel
A Greece Hold
F Helgoland Bight - Kiel
F Norway - North Sea
A Prussia - Berlin
A Serbia - Trieste
A Silesia Supports A Prussia - Berlin
F Skagerrak Supports F Norway - North Sea
A Smyrna Hold
F St Petersburg(nc) - Norway
F Sweden - Baltic Sea (*Fails*)
A Trieste - Tyrolia
A Vienna Supports A Trieste - Tyrolia
A Warsaw - Prussia[Reply] |
