| DC399 Europe EOG - Sean2010 (Jun 24, 2012, 9:49 pm) |
Hello Everyone (On WiFi at the moment),
First, I would like to thank Michael for GMing, and I would like to congratulate Amazon, Oceania, Persia, and Quebec on their 4-way draw.
Second, I would like to thank everyone for a good game.
In my opinion, I screwed up in hindsight based on two major compounding mistakes. First, I didn't communicate as much as I should have during the build phase in the opening of the game, and I was overly hopeful. Second, I largely fought the last war. To clarify, I believed that Russia was my biggest and most immediate threat, so I based my strategy on slow expansion and growth and tactically on defenses. To accomplish these, I sought for peaceful relations with Quebec and Sahara diplomatically and through physical influence. With Quebec, I set the ground work to DMZ Atlantic through friendly diplomatic relations and built A Fra instead of F Fra, and I mostly kept my naval builds in Dub, Lon, and Sto. To my understanding, the tactical strategy was a eastern defensive pivot. Essentially, the pivot shifts the units into defensive positions designed to impale/halt an offensive from the east; the main exception was F Sto and making Oslo neutral. I was hoping that if European-Russo didn't end up in an immediate war; I could create more flexibility. For the sake of simplicity, the advantage is that defensive pivots offer strong defenses, but the disadvantages are not very flexible and ineffective pointed in the wrong direction. To be blunt, when Quebec rather than Russia proved to be anti-European, I was in very poor position to do much. In my opinion, I made a very poor showing here as I largely had difficulty adapting to the situational and map dynamic's progression through the game. Quebec did a nice job keeping me on my toes, and I suspect my usefulness played a factor in Persia's alliance here.
I apologize for being brief, but things are rather hectic and have forgotten much of what happened.
The map suggestions that I would make are:
A). I think that combining Elbe and Poland would be beneficial as the neutral zone between Europe and Russia would remain, but it also speeds up both defenses and offensive options here.
B). The Antarctic should mirror the Arctic.
C).
"2. 'S' denotes a strait. Armies may cross straits without a convoy. In
addition, if both centers on either side of a strait are occupied, a
fleet wishing to go through the strait must have permission of one of
the occupying units (A Ethiopia Permit F Red Sea - Arabian Sea). A unit
is considered to occupy a center if it begins and ends its movement in
that center. Permission does not constitute an order (so the same unit
can support another unit)."
This should also extend to units wishing to move from Somalia and Yemen should also have permission of a unit in the Red Sea or Arabian Sea.
from Sean
Again, I apologize for my EOG being so brief, but I don't remember much with how hectic things have been.
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2012 13:10:30 -0700
Subject: DC399 Oceania EGS
From: amtrating(at)gmail.com
To: jerome777(at)ymail.com
CC: mjn82(at)yahoo.com; gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com; alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com; worldwidegm(at)gmail.com; maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk; nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com; sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com; timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com; dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com
Hey all, EGS as promised:
Well, this has been my second game on the worldwide variant, and have to say Mike that I feel like you've done a great job opening up the possibilities on this version. My opening strategy was very different than when I played Amazon/South America before. The Arctic opening influenced my moves even though I was at the other side of the map, because it immediately had half the players immediately concerned about the space.
I immediately felt like Congo,Amazon, and Oceania were part of a triple that needed to go to 2 as soon as possible. If 2 of us took out the third, and then stayed well away from one another's home centers, we'd forge a 2-way alliance with each of us becoming effectively corner powers. Of the two, Jerome in Amazon seemed the most on board, and willing to discuss moves. My success in this game is almost entirely due to his good faith and willingness to collaborate while resisting the urge to stab when I was vulnerable. For example, when Mexico pushed southwest, had Amazon joined in with a couple strong moves I'd have lost all my southern centers. He did not, and I was able to slowly and surely expand.
We decided on a strategy of containing Mexico while cooperating in Africa to eliminate our opposition there. I negotiated peaceful relations with both Persia and China, and Amazon helped me push Mexico back to the eastern Pacific while I helped Jerome take some Congoese centers. When I was in a good enough position, I attacked and seized some African centers for myself, and Congo was eliminated as a threat. At this point, my attention turned to the Pacific. I moved to establish a stalemate with Persia and went after Gino's China.
My choice of targets at this point was pretty much chosen by who was most willing to actively discuss moves. I was concerned about a stab from Amazon, but he had been honest so far and I figured it would take some time to set up an effective stab, so I'd have some indications. China had taken what of Russia he wanted, and it appeared that Persia was planning to stab him. Mexico was stalemated, but too far to garner any gains too quickly. So pretty much by process of elimination I chose to move on China. Slow going, but I made progress, and kept pace with Amazon.
From there things proceeded fairly mechanically. Quebec's apparent path to growth through Europe and Sahara began to worry Amazon and I; we feared he might be able to run for a solo by saving Mexico's centers for last. We decided to jointly go after Mexico to prevent this, and bolster our own position. And so the both of us marched North, collecting centers as we went. It was a long slog through China's naturally strong defenses, but I managed to do some damage and force some key disbands. Pretty much the same story in North America.
Then the endgame - a Persia/Quebec was suspected, and I proposed a 3 way draw excluding Persia to try and make it look like Quebec was planning to stab Persia with our help. Whether that had any effect or not, about that time Persia and Quebec started to get hostile around their borders. I made some key moves to surround Persia and lock his armies into place, then planned to push into the Arctic to outflank him. I think Amazon planned the same for Quebec. We both supported a 4 way draw publicly, and I know I at least voted for it each time it came up, but planned to keep improving our respective positions until it passed or we were strong enough for force a 2-way draw.
Probably the main reason we didn't push for a 2 way draw was concern that the other would make faster progress and solo. We'd spoken before about racing to a solo without attacking one another, and though I was becoming sorely tempted by the thought of snagging some of his centers after I had turned Persia's flank, I preferred to avoid the risk and walk away as the joint SC leader in a 4-way draw.
Great game you guys, and thanks Mike for GMing!
Now map comments:
I really like how this map is shaping up. I still feel like Oceania is too hard to attack, and exploited that throughout the game. I calculated that with 7 units and one ally I could make myself safe indefinitely. 11-12 units and no ally would make me effectively impregnable to attack if I had the right centers. The relatively few mid-ocean spaces makes stalemates fairly easy, as was seen in the Atlantic and Indian. As a predominantly naval power (unless I wanted to bring down a joint China-Persia assault, armies in Bangkok and Jakarta were not a good idea till later) Oceania can fairly easily make any attack unprofitable to the medium term.
Contrast this with Russia, who - especially with Arctic open - isn't safe anywhere. The geography of a worldwide map makes Oceania a very safe position. Amazon is likewise very safe. The map does a great job of allowing corner type powers avenues of expansion against neighbors who usually have more fronts to worry about.
Now Congo's performance in both games I've played has been surprising to me, largely because both Congos have been skilled players. I wonder if there isn't a sort of psychological bias at work - Congo could be as much of a corner power as Oceania or Amazon, either of which could be the odd man out in the southern triple. But its almost as if being in the perceived center of a 2D map makes Congo like Austria to a juggernaut in standard Dip - a concentration of inviting, easily surrounded centers that seems to get attacked early because gains outweigh risks in a lot of cases.
Part of the problem, I feel, is that Amazon and Oceania don't have a lot of incentive to go after one another. Accessible primarily through 1 sea lane, a stab either way probably makes one center change hands. A possible solution, in my opinion, would be to create an Antarctic space as a counterpart to the Arctic. If such a space could border Melbourne, Jo-Burg, and Buenos Aires, it could make an early stab more likely, and raise some tension - just as Arctic does for the northern powers.
Making China a little more naval oriented might also help. If Bangkok became a neutral center and was exchanged for Borneo or Singapore, that could make Oceania more compact and thus a better target for China early on.
Another possibility might perhaps be the addition of several neutrals SCs in key places that aren't able to be claimed by any power until after the initial builds. Maybe one per player, but always located right between 2 of them.
Just my ideas here - the map is going great and another playtest might lead to a completely different result. I'd be happy to participate - and be in a different part of the map. Might have totally different opinions if I'd drawn Europe or Russia!
Andrew
On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 3:05 PM, Jerome Payne <jerome777(at)ymail.com> wrote:
Hi everyone,
I'll send a proper EGS tomorrow, but in the meantime I just wanted to say 'congrats' to my fellow draw-sharers, 'well done' to Mike and Warren for surviving, 'unlucky' to Sean, Nick and Doug, and a big 'thank you' to Mike for GMing the game so well.
More tomorrow.
Jerome
Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphoneFrom: Michael Norton <mjn82(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:17:53 -0700 (PDT)To: Gino Karczewski<gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com>; Warren Fleming<alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com>
ReplyTo: Michael Norton <mjn82(at)yahoo.com>
Cc: Michael Penner<worldwidegm(at)gmail.com>; amtrating(at)gmail.com<amtrating(at)gmail.com>; jerome777(at)ymail.com<jerome777(at)ymail.com>; maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk<maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk>; nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com<nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com>; sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com<sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com>; timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com<timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com>; dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com<dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com>; dougray30(at)yahoo.com<dougray30(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: DC399 - Spring 2010
Congrats to you guys. Espeically Max! Although I have less territory than when I started, Egypt's a great place to retire and rule with all the creature comforts. I love the Med!
Mike
From: Gino Karczewski <gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com>
To: Warren Fleming <alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com>
Cc: Michael Penner <worldwidegm(at)gmail.com>; amtrating(at)gmail.com; jerome777(at)ymail.com; maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk; mjn82(at)yahoo.com; nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com; sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com; timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com; dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com
Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2012 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: DC399 - Spring 2010
Congrats to all from the Chinese Empire, currently struggling for control of the under-earth with the Mole people...
On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 12:09 PM, Warren Fleming <alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com> wrote:
Congrats guys. Whew!
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:42:47 -0500
Subject: DC399 - Spring 2010
From: worldwidegm(at)gmail.com
To: amtrating(at)gmail.com; gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com; jerome777(at)ymail.com; Maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk; mjn82(at)yahoo.com; nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com; sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com; timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com; alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com; dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com
...and that's all, folks.
After a number of attempts, the PQAO draw has passed and the game is over. I can think of a few players who would rather have seen the game end earlier, but it was not to be. Congratulations to Andrew, Jerome, Max and Tim on prevailing to the end. Congrats as well to Warren and Michael for their survivals. It's tough being under attack for the whole game, so thanks for sticking with us.
The selfish part of me wanted to see this game keep going, as I wanted to see Persia and Quebec go at it over the Europe/Russia border, giving the map a good test. But, I also see that if they did that Ociania and Amazon had enough control over the oceans to make their lives miserable. I really thought a 2-way was in the cards. But that is not to be.
I'd love to hear your comments both about the game and the map. I continue to tweak and test to try to make it better.
mvp
--
Gino Karczewski
765 Amsterdam Avenue #10-J
New York, NY 10025
917-434-9008 Mobile
646-807-4702 Fax[Reply] |
| DC399 Mexico EGS - DrSwordopolis (Jun 24, 2012, 7:26 pm) |
Hi all,
This was a tricky game for me, because it came at a time in my life when I really shouldn't have been playing Diplomacy at all. I moved twice in December, again briefly in April, and then all the way across the country from BC to Newfoundland at the beginning of May. This came with multiple computer outages, moving related and otherwise. Perhaps I should have dropped out and asked for a replacement, but that's not how I roll. Regardless, once I fell behind on my diplomacy and my game started to be impaired as a result, I lost interest in the game quickly and that little snowball started becoming a very big boulder indeed...
My initial plan, from analysing the map and the SC breakdown, was for a naval assault against China or Oceania as part of an American Triple. Tim in Quebec said he was entirely on board with this, and Jerome indicated as well initially but it remains to be seen if his heart was in it or not. Maybe he never planned on sticking with me for long and was always with Oceania, or maybe it was simply my total silence that flicked his paranoia switch and moved him to the other side. Regardless, the plan became for me to push west, Tim and Jerome east, and for Jerome and I to supply an extremely valuable fleet into the other front. Arctic, for me, and as a bulwark against Oceania for Jerome. I noted very early the importance of snagging key ocean spaces because of the difficulty involved in being dislodged from them, and also the very poor prospects for an American continental war. So I went all in early on fleets rather than choosing to hedge my bets, and decided to make an early gambit attack on Oceania, hoping he'd think it too crazy a prospect to defend against it too heartily. Why? I knew Tim and Sean from previous games - Tim a solid ally and very capable player (who has done very well, and better than me, every time we've played together) and I figured I could string Sean along and get intel from him to help Tim to ensure my ally credentials. I was hoping Eurasia would stagnate while I pushed through with brilliant early victory in the seas. To make this work best I'd have to have a backdoor late-game alliance planned with Persia or one of the African powers, but much to my disfortune, I didn't contact any of them until much too late in the game. All the laziness and outside life factors. In Asia, Gino struck me as paranoid and potentially erratic like many a new player, so I didn't want to get involved in a long war against him without overwhelming help. Andrew in Ocenia on the other hand, struck me immediately as a very competent, very dangerous neighbour so I resolved to embark on a high risk, high reward war against him. If I could use my early moves to get a fleet behind his lines, I'd have the leverage to break him open. But that didn't work - no help from Amazon, no trust from China, not duplicitous enough against Oceania, too silent with other players... and the rest is history. This did lead to an interesting debate with Tim about who one should attack first that exposed our very different Diplomacy philosophies. I favour attacking the strong, helping the weak, ensuring a balance of power and focusing on the biggest threats early, and he a more traditional approach. Good discussion.
I started going dark, Amazon betrayed me to little surprise, and I focused on the long haul of survival. I knew I could form a line, even with Hawaii, that with Quebec's help I would be able to hold them off with indefinitely, which I think may have taken them a while to fully understand, and I used my tactical prowess (hah) to my best ability. This went on well for a while, as I more and more lost all interest in the game. I would have been very happy to continue this position and indirectly give Quebec a solid solo shot. Then Tim stabbed me and I decided to do all in my power to injure him. I knew the balance of power around my centers would mean that A\O and Q might mutually keep each other out, so I decided to be predictably unorthodox and just frustrate Tim's pace in the far north. And then after that, I was doomed, so I moved to piss him off some more. Hah!
The draws came and went. And I was eliminated. I HOPE that the time of the draw's passing was just that everyone had decided it was over, but I know this game had become entirely fixed and unfun for most of its players, and that it wasn't a move to secure a couple extra ranking points by extending the game one turn to ensure a few centre's extinction. That's fine for a tournament game, but a bit of a dick move otherwise.
As for the variant, I largely enjoyed it. This map appealed to me initially because it's a global game that isn't broken down into tons of small theaters of war. Each centre is not far away from any other and so there is a great need to diplome with the whole world. As for the map, it's been a long time since I've thought about it. It does occur to me that Oceania and the 3 Western hemisphere powers are much better defensively than the rest, with seemingly as good offensive capabilities but I don't know if that's true or not.
Anyways, thanks for the game even if I wished it ended months ago,
-Nick, from an islet in James' Bay
On Sun, Jun 24, 2012 at 5:40 PM, Andrew Tanner <amtrating(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Hey all, EGS as promised:
Well, this has been my second game on the worldwide variant, and have to say Mike that I feel like you've done a great job opening up the possibilities on this version. My opening strategy was very different than when I played Amazon/South America before. The Arctic opening influenced my moves even though I was at the other side of the map, because it immediately had half the players immediately concerned about the space.
I immediately felt like Congo,Amazon, and Oceania were part of a triple that needed to go to 2 as soon as possible. If 2 of us took out the third, and then stayed well away from one another's home centers, we'd forge a 2-way alliance with each of us becoming effectively corner powers. Of the two, Jerome in Amazon seemed the most on board, and willing to discuss moves. My success in this game is almost entirely due to his good faith and willingness to collaborate while resisting the urge to stab when I was vulnerable. For example, when Mexico pushed southwest, had Amazon joined in with a couple strong moves I'd have lost all my southern centers. He did not, and I was able to slowly and surely expand.
We decided on a strategy of containing Mexico while cooperating in Africa to eliminate our opposition there. I negotiated peaceful relations with both Persia and China, and Amazon helped me push Mexico back to the eastern Pacific while I helped Jerome take some Congoese centers. When I was in a good enough position, I attacked and seized some African centers for myself, and Congo was eliminated as a threat. At this point, my attention turned to the Pacific. I moved to establish a stalemate with Persia and went after Gino's China.
My choice of targets at this point was pretty much chosen by who was most willing to actively discuss moves. I was concerned about a stab from Amazon, but he had been honest so far and I figured it would take some time to set up an effective stab, so I'd have some indications. China had taken what of Russia he wanted, and it appeared that Persia was planning to stab him. Mexico was stalemated, but too far to garner any gains too quickly. So pretty much by process of elimination I chose to move on China. Slow going, but I made progress, and kept pace with Amazon.
From there things proceeded fairly mechanically. Quebec's apparent path to growth through Europe and Sahara began to worry Amazon and I; we feared he might be able to run for a solo by saving Mexico's centers for last. We decided to jointly go after Mexico to prevent this, and bolster our own position. And so the both of us marched North, collecting centers as we went. It was a long slog through China's naturally strong defenses, but I managed to do some damage and force some key disbands. Pretty much the same story in North America.
Then the endgame - a Persia/Quebec was suspected, and I proposed a 3 way draw excluding Persia to try and make it look like Quebec was planning to stab Persia with our help. Whether that had any effect or not, about that time Persia and Quebec started to get hostile around their borders. I made some key moves to surround Persia and lock his armies into place, then planned to push into the Arctic to outflank him. I think Amazon planned the same for Quebec. We both supported a 4 way draw publicly, and I know I at least voted for it each time it came up, but planned to keep improving our respective positions until it passed or we were strong enough for force a 2-way draw.
Probably the main reason we didn't push for a 2 way draw was concern that the other would make faster progress and solo. We'd spoken before about racing to a solo without attacking one another, and though I was becoming sorely tempted by the thought of snagging some of his centers after I had turned Persia's flank, I preferred to avoid the risk and walk away as the joint SC leader in a 4-way draw.
Great game you guys, and thanks Mike for GMing!
Now map comments:
I really like how this map is shaping up. I still feel like Oceania is too hard to attack, and exploited that throughout the game. I calculated that with 7 units and one ally I could make myself safe indefinitely. 11-12 units and no ally would make me effectively impregnable to attack if I had the right centers. The relatively few mid-ocean spaces makes stalemates fairly easy, as was seen in the Atlantic and Indian. As a predominantly naval power (unless I wanted to bring down a joint China-Persia assault, armies in Bangkok and Jakarta were not a good idea till later) Oceania can fairly easily make any attack unprofitable to the medium term.
Contrast this with Russia, who - especially with Arctic open - isn't safe anywhere. The geography of a worldwide map makes Oceania a very safe position. Amazon is likewise very safe. The map does a great job of allowing corner type powers avenues of expansion against neighbors who usually have more fronts to worry about.
Now Congo's performance in both games I've played has been surprising to me, largely because both Congos have been skilled players. I wonder if there isn't a sort of psychological bias at work - Congo could be as much of a corner power as Oceania or Amazon, either of which could be the odd man out in the southern triple. But its almost as if being in the perceived center of a 2D map makes Congo like Austria to a juggernaut in standard Dip - a concentration of inviting, easily surrounded centers that seems to get attacked early because gains outweigh risks in a lot of cases.
Part of the problem, I feel, is that Amazon and Oceania don't have a lot of incentive to go after one another. Accessible primarily through 1 sea lane, a stab either way probably makes one center change hands. A possible solution, in my opinion, would be to create an Antarctic space as a counterpart to the Arctic. If such a space could border Melbourne, Jo-Burg, and Buenos Aires, it could make an early stab more likely, and raise some tension - just as Arctic does for the northern powers.
Making China a little more naval oriented might also help. If Bangkok became a neutral center and was exchanged for Borneo or Singapore, that could make Oceania more compact and thus a better target for China early on.
Another possibility might perhaps be the addition of several neutrals SCs in key places that aren't able to be claimed by any power until after the initial builds. Maybe one per player, but always located right between 2 of them.
Just my ideas here - the map is going great and another playtest might lead to a completely different result. I'd be happy to participate - and be in a different part of the map. Might have totally different opinions if I'd drawn Europe or Russia!
Andrew
On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 3:05 PM, Jerome Payne <jerome777(at)ymail.com> wrote:
Hi everyone,
I'll send a proper EGS tomorrow, but in the meantime I just wanted to say 'congrats' to my fellow draw-sharers, 'well done' to Mike and Warren for surviving, 'unlucky' to Sean, Nick and Doug, and a big 'thank you' to Mike for GMing the game so well.
More tomorrow.
Jerome
Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphoneFrom: Michael Norton <mjn82(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:17:53 -0700 (PDT)To: Gino Karczewski<gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com>; Warren Fleming<alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com>
ReplyTo: Michael Norton <mjn82(at)yahoo.com>
Cc: Michael Penner<worldwidegm(at)gmail.com>; amtrating(at)gmail.com<amtrating(at)gmail.com>; jerome777(at)ymail.com<jerome777(at)ymail.com>; maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk<maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk>; nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com<nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com>; sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com<sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com>; timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com<timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com>; dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com<dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com>; dougray30(at)yahoo.com<dougray30(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: DC399 - Spring 2010
Congrats to you guys. Espeically Max! Although I have less territory than when I started, Egypt's a great place to retire and rule with all the creature comforts. I love the Med!
Mike
From: Gino Karczewski <gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com>
To: Warren Fleming <alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com>
Cc: Michael Penner <worldwidegm(at)gmail.com>; amtrating(at)gmail.com; jerome777(at)ymail.com; maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk; mjn82(at)yahoo.com; nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com; sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com; timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com; dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com
Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2012 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: DC399 - Spring 2010
Congrats to all from the Chinese Empire, currently struggling for control of the under-earth with the Mole people...
On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 12:09 PM, Warren Fleming <alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com> wrote:
Congrats guys. Whew!
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:42:47 -0500
Subject: DC399 - Spring 2010
From: worldwidegm(at)gmail.com
To: amtrating(at)gmail.com; gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com; jerome777(at)ymail.com; Maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk; mjn82(at)yahoo.com; nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com; sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com; timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com; alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com; dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com
...and that's all, folks.
After a number of attempts, the PQAO draw has passed and the game is over. I can think of a few players who would rather have seen the game end earlier, but it was not to be. Congratulations to Andrew, Jerome, Max and Tim on prevailing to the end. Congrats as well to Warren and Michael for their survivals. It's tough being under attack for the whole game, so thanks for sticking with us.
The selfish part of me wanted to see this game keep going, as I wanted to see Persia and Quebec go at it over the Europe/Russia border, giving the map a good test. But, I also see that if they did that Ociania and Amazon had enough control over the oceans to make their lives miserable. I really thought a 2-way was in the cards. But that is not to be.
I'd love to hear your comments both about the game and the map. I continue to tweak and test to try to make it better.
mvp
--
Gino Karczewski
765 Amsterdam Avenue #10-J
New York, NY 10025
917-434-9008 Mobile
646-807-4702 Fax[Reply] |
| DC399 Mexico EGS (dc399) mjn82 Jun 25, 07:14 am |
Congrats again to the winning combo and to an excellent GM, Well, initially I considered two options. An alliance with Sahara and Oceania or Amazon was option 1. An alliance with both O and A, while attacking Sahara then choosing O or A as my permanent partner was plan B. I went with plan B after watching Sahara's initial moves which I thought were somewhat hostile. I may have misread that , but that was how I interpreted it. So I went with plan B and made two mistakes. One Plan B required some help from Amazon on the African continent, which gave him a foothold. Two, I was way too trusting of Amazon and more suspicious of Oceania so I let my west coast weakly defended. Obviously that was too tempting for Amazon and before I knew it I was stretched a unit or
two too thin and in trouble. I had tried to develop a friendship with Persia early on, hoping a strong Persia would offset the potential I saw in Oceania's position. I felt once he grew as a naval power he would be too tough to dislodge. I got that right but Persia was too busy inland with Russia to help in the Indian Ocean. Eventually that investment in Persia ended up critical to my survival. So maybe I got that right. Warren and I managed to help each other here and there to survive but never really worked well enough to restore any real control of Africa. Good job, balancing Quebec and Amazon Warren. I think an Arctic sea space would help and perhaps an adjustment in the ocean between Oceania and Amazon. I think the map leads Amazon to head east instead of west but then ,
perhaps I am biased lol. Thanks again. I especially enjoyed the initial diplomacy prior to establishing initial unit and center positions. nice touch Mike
|
| DC399 Oceania EGS - AMT (Jun 24, 2012, 3:10 pm) |
Hey all, EGS as promised:
Well, this has been my second game on the worldwide variant, and have to say Mike that I feel like you've done a great job opening up the possibilities on this version. My opening strategy was very different than when I played Amazon/South America before. The Arctic opening influenced my moves even though I was at the other side of the map, because it immediately had half the players immediately concerned about the space.
I immediately felt like Congo,Amazon, and Oceania were part of a triple that needed to go to 2 as soon as possible. If 2 of us took out the third, and then stayed well away from one another's home centers, we'd forge a 2-way alliance with each of us becoming effectively corner powers. Of the two, Jerome in Amazon seemed the most on board, and willing to discuss moves. My success in this game is almost entirely due to his good faith and willingness to collaborate while resisting the urge to stab when I was vulnerable. For example, when Mexico pushed southwest, had Amazon joined in with a couple strong moves I'd have lost all my southern centers. He did not, and I was able to slowly and surely expand.
We decided on a strategy of containing Mexico while cooperating in Africa to eliminate our opposition there. I negotiated peaceful relations with both Persia and China, and Amazon helped me push Mexico back to the eastern Pacific while I helped Jerome take some Congoese centers. When I was in a good enough position, I attacked and seized some African centers for myself, and Congo was eliminated as a threat. At this point, my attention turned to the Pacific. I moved to establish a stalemate with Persia and went after Gino's China.
My choice of targets at this point was pretty much chosen by who was most willing to actively discuss moves. I was concerned about a stab from Amazon, but he had been honest so far and I figured it would take some time to set up an effective stab, so I'd have some indications. China had taken what of Russia he wanted, and it appeared that Persia was planning to stab him. Mexico was stalemated, but too far to garner any gains too quickly. So pretty much by process of elimination I chose to move on China. Slow going, but I made progress, and kept pace with Amazon.
From there things proceeded fairly mechanically. Quebec's apparent path to growth through Europe and Sahara began to worry Amazon and I; we feared he might be able to run for a solo by saving Mexico's centers for last. We decided to jointly go after Mexico to prevent this, and bolster our own position. And so the both of us marched North, collecting centers as we went. It was a long slog through China's naturally strong defenses, but I managed to do some damage and force some key disbands. Pretty much the same story in North America.
Then the endgame - a Persia/Quebec was suspected, and I proposed a 3 way draw excluding Persia to try and make it look like Quebec was planning to stab Persia with our help. Whether that had any effect or not, about that time Persia and Quebec started to get hostile around their borders. I made some key moves to surround Persia and lock his armies into place, then planned to push into the Arctic to outflank him. I think Amazon planned the same for Quebec. We both supported a 4 way draw publicly, and I know I at least voted for it each time it came up, but planned to keep improving our respective positions until it passed or we were strong enough for force a 2-way draw.
Probably the main reason we didn't push for a 2 way draw was concern that the other would make faster progress and solo. We'd spoken before about racing to a solo without attacking one another, and though I was becoming sorely tempted by the thought of snagging some of his centers after I had turned Persia's flank, I preferred to avoid the risk and walk away as the joint SC leader in a 4-way draw.
Great game you guys, and thanks Mike for GMing!
Now map comments:
I really like how this map is shaping up. I still feel like Oceania is too hard to attack, and exploited that throughout the game. I calculated that with 7 units and one ally I could make myself safe indefinitely. 11-12 units and no ally would make me effectively impregnable to attack if I had the right centers. The relatively few mid-ocean spaces makes stalemates fairly easy, as was seen in the Atlantic and Indian. As a predominantly naval power (unless I wanted to bring down a joint China-Persia assault, armies in Bangkok and Jakarta were not a good idea till later) Oceania can fairly easily make any attack unprofitable to the medium term.
Contrast this with Russia, who - especially with Arctic open - isn't safe anywhere. The geography of a worldwide map makes Oceania a very safe position. Amazon is likewise very safe. The map does a great job of allowing corner type powers avenues of expansion against neighbors who usually have more fronts to worry about.
Now Congo's performance in both games I've played has been surprising to me, largely because both Congos have been skilled players. I wonder if there isn't a sort of psychological bias at work - Congo could be as much of a corner power as Oceania or Amazon, either of which could be the odd man out in the southern triple. But its almost as if being in the perceived center of a 2D map makes Congo like Austria to a juggernaut in standard Dip - a concentration of inviting, easily surrounded centers that seems to get attacked early because gains outweigh risks in a lot of cases.
Part of the problem, I feel, is that Amazon and Oceania don't have a lot of incentive to go after one another. Accessible primarily through 1 sea lane, a stab either way probably makes one center change hands. A possible solution, in my opinion, would be to create an Antarctic space as a counterpart to the Arctic. If such a space could border Melbourne, Jo-Burg, and Buenos Aires, it could make an early stab more likely, and raise some tension - just as Arctic does for the northern powers.
Making China a little more naval oriented might also help. If Bangkok became a neutral center and was exchanged for Borneo or Singapore, that could make Oceania more compact and thus a better target for China early on.
Another possibility might perhaps be the addition of several neutrals SCs in key places that aren't able to be claimed by any power until after the initial builds. Maybe one per player, but always located right between 2 of them.
Just my ideas here - the map is going great and another playtest might lead to a completely different result. I'd be happy to participate - and be in a different part of the map. Might have totally different opinions if I'd drawn Europe or Russia!
Andrew
On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 3:05 PM, Jerome Payne <jerome777(at)ymail.com> wrote:
Hi everyone,
I'll send a proper EGS tomorrow, but in the meantime I just wanted to say 'congrats' to my fellow draw-sharers, 'well done' to Mike and Warren for surviving, 'unlucky' to Sean, Nick and Doug, and a big 'thank you' to Mike for GMing the game so well.
More tomorrow.
Jerome
Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphoneFrom: Michael Norton <mjn82(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:17:53 -0700 (PDT)To: Gino Karczewski<gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com>; Warren Fleming<alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com>
ReplyTo: Michael Norton <mjn82(at)yahoo.com>
Cc: Michael Penner<worldwidegm(at)gmail.com>; amtrating(at)gmail.com<amtrating(at)gmail.com>; jerome777(at)ymail.com<jerome777(at)ymail.com>; maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk<maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk>; nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com<nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com>; sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com<sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com>; timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com<timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com>; dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com<dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com>; dougray30(at)yahoo.com<dougray30(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: DC399 - Spring 2010
Congrats to you guys. Espeically Max! Although I have less territory than when I started, Egypt's a great place to retire and rule with all the creature comforts. I love the Med!
Mike
From: Gino Karczewski <gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com>
To: Warren Fleming <alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com>
Cc: Michael Penner <worldwidegm(at)gmail.com>; amtrating(at)gmail.com; jerome777(at)ymail.com; maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk; mjn82(at)yahoo.com; nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com; sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com; timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com; dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com
Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2012 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: DC399 - Spring 2010
Congrats to all from the Chinese Empire, currently struggling for control of the under-earth with the Mole people...
On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 12:09 PM, Warren Fleming <alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com> wrote:
Congrats guys. Whew!
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:42:47 -0500
Subject: DC399 - Spring 2010
From: worldwidegm(at)gmail.com
To: amtrating(at)gmail.com; gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com; jerome777(at)ymail.com; Maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk; mjn82(at)yahoo.com; nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com; sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com; timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com; alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com; dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com
...and that's all, folks.
After a number of attempts, the PQAO draw has passed and the game is over. I can think of a few players who would rather have seen the game end earlier, but it was not to be. Congratulations to Andrew, Jerome, Max and Tim on prevailing to the end. Congrats as well to Warren and Michael for their survivals. It's tough being under attack for the whole game, so thanks for sticking with us.
The selfish part of me wanted to see this game keep going, as I wanted to see Persia and Quebec go at it over the Europe/Russia border, giving the map a good test. But, I also see that if they did that Ociania and Amazon had enough control over the oceans to make their lives miserable. I really thought a 2-way was in the cards. But that is not to be.
I'd love to hear your comments both about the game and the map. I continue to tweak and test to try to make it better.
mvp
--
Gino Karczewski
765 Amsterdam Avenue #10-J
New York, NY 10025
917-434-9008 Mobile
646-807-4702 Fax[Reply] |
| DC399 - Spring 2010 - jerome777 (Jun 23, 2012, 5:05 pm) |
Hi everyone,I'll send a proper EGS tomorrow, but in the meantime I just wanted to say 'congrats' to my fellow draw-sharers, 'well done' to Mike and Warren for surviving, 'unlucky' to Sean, Nick and Doug, and a big 'thank you' to Mike for GMing the game so well. More tomorrow. JeromeSent from my BlackBerry® smartphoneFrom: Michael Norton <mjn82(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:17:53 -0700 (PDT)To: Gino Karczewski<gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com>; Warren Fleming<alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com>ReplyTo: Michael Norton <mjn82(at)yahoo.com>
Cc: Michael Penner<worldwidegm(at)gmail.com>; amtrating(at)gmail.com<amtrating(at)gmail.com>; jerome777(at)ymail.com<jerome777(at)ymail.com>; maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk<maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk>; nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com<nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com>; sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com<sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com>; timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com<timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com>; dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com<dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com>; dougray30(at)yahoo.com<dougray30(at)yahoo.com>Subject: Re: DC399 - Spring 2010Congrats to you guys. Espeically Max! Although I have less territory than when I started, Egypt's a great place to retire and rule with all the creature comforts. I love the Med! Mike
From: Gino Karczewski <gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com>
To: Warren Fleming <alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com>
Cc: Michael Penner <worldwidegm(at)gmail.com>; amtrating(at)gmail.com; jerome777(at)ymail.com; maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk; mjn82(at)yahoo.com; nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com; sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com; timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com; dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com
Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2012 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: DC399 - Spring 2010
Congrats to all from the Chinese Empire, currently struggling for control of the under-earth with the Mole people...
On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 12:09 PM, Warren Fleming <alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com> wrote:
Congrats guys. Whew!
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:42:47 -0500
Subject: DC399 - Spring 2010
From: worldwidegm(at)gmail.com
To: amtrating(at)gmail.com; gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com; jerome777(at)ymail.com; Maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk; mjn82(at)yahoo.com; nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com; sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com; timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com; alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com; dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com
...and that's all, folks.
After a number of attempts, the PQAO draw has passed and the game is over. I can think of a few players who would rather have seen the game end earlier, but it was not to be. Congratulations to Andrew, Jerome, Max and Tim on prevailing to the end. Congrats as well to Warren and Michael for their survivals. It's tough being under attack for the whole game, so thanks for sticking with us.
The selfish part of me wanted to see this game keep going, as I wanted to see Persia and Quebec go at it over the Europe/Russia border, giving the map a good test. But, I also see that if they did that Ociania and Amazon had enough control over the oceans to make their lives miserable. I really thought a 2-way was in the cards. But that is not to be.
I'd love to hear your comments both about the game and the map. I continue to tweak and test to try to make it better.
mvp
--
Gino Karczewski
765 Amsterdam Avenue #10-J
New York, NY 10025
917-434-9008 Mobile
646-807-4702 Fax[Reply] |
| DC399 - Spring 2010 - AMT (Jun 23, 2012, 12:32 pm) |
Good game everyone! Thanks MVP for GMing!
I'll do a debrief with map comments later this weekend
On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 10:17 AM, Michael Norton <mjn82(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
Congrats to you guys. Espeically Max! Although I have less territory than when I started, Egypt's a great place to retire and rule with all the creature comforts. I love the Med!
Mike
From: Gino Karczewski <gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com>
To: Warren Fleming <alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com>
Cc: Michael Penner <worldwidegm(at)gmail.com>; amtrating(at)gmail.com; jerome777(at)ymail.com; maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk; mjn82(at)yahoo.com; nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com; sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com; timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com; dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com
Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2012 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: DC399 - Spring 2010
Congrats to all from the Chinese Empire, currently struggling for control of the under-earth with the Mole people...
On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 12:09 PM, Warren Fleming <alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com> wrote:
Congrats guys. Whew!
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:42:47 -0500
Subject: DC399 - Spring 2010
From: worldwidegm(at)gmail.com
To: amtrating(at)gmail.com; gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com; jerome777(at)ymail.com; Maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk; mjn82(at)yahoo.com; nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com; sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com; timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com; alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com; dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com
...and that's all, folks.
After a number of attempts, the PQAO draw has passed and the game is over. I can think of a few players who would rather have seen the game end earlier, but it was not to be. Congratulations to Andrew, Jerome, Max and Tim on prevailing to the end. Congrats as well to Warren and Michael for their survivals. It's tough being under attack for the whole game, so thanks for sticking with us.
The selfish part of me wanted to see this game keep going, as I wanted to see Persia and Quebec go at it over the Europe/Russia border, giving the map a good test. But, I also see that if they did that Ociania and Amazon had enough control over the oceans to make their lives miserable. I really thought a 2-way was in the cards. But that is not to be.
I'd love to hear your comments both about the game and the map. I continue to tweak and test to try to make it better.
mvp
--
Gino Karczewski
765 Amsterdam Avenue #10-J
New York, NY 10025
917-434-9008 Mobile
646-807-4702 Fax[Reply] |
| DC399 - Spring 2010 - mjn82 (Jun 23, 2012, 12:17 pm) |
Congrats to you guys. Espeically Max! Although I have less territory than when I started, Egypt's a great place to retire and rule with all the creature comforts. I love the Med! Mike
From: Gino Karczewski <gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com>
To: Warren Fleming <alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com>
Cc: Michael Penner <worldwidegm(at)gmail.com>; amtrating(at)gmail.com; jerome777(at)ymail.com; maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk; mjn82(at)yahoo.com; nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com; sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com; timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com; dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com
Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2012 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: DC399 - Spring 2010
Congrats to all from the Chinese Empire, currently struggling for control of the under-earth with the Mole people...
On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 12:09 PM, Warren Fleming <alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com> wrote:
Congrats guys. Whew!
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:42:47 -0500
Subject: DC399 - Spring 2010
From: worldwidegm(at)gmail.com
To: amtrating(at)gmail.com; gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com; jerome777(at)ymail.com; Maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk; mjn82(at)yahoo.com; nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com; sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com; timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com; alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com; dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com
...and that's all, folks.
After a number of attempts, the PQAO draw has passed and the game is over. I can think of a few players who would rather have seen the game end earlier, but it was not to be. Congratulations to Andrew, Jerome, Max and Tim on prevailing to the end. Congrats as well to Warren and Michael for their survivals. It's tough being under attack for the whole game, so thanks for sticking with us.
The selfish part of me wanted to see this game keep going, as I wanted to see Persia and Quebec go at it over the Europe/Russia border, giving the map a good test. But, I also see that if they did that Ociania and Amazon had enough control over the oceans to make their lives miserable. I really thought a 2-way was in the cards. But that is not to be.
I'd love to hear your comments both about the game and the map. I continue to tweak and test to try to make it better.
mvp
--
Gino Karczewski
765 Amsterdam Avenue #10-J
New York, NY 10025
917-434-9008 Mobile
646-807-4702 Fax[Reply] |
| DC399 - Spring 2010 - GinoKay (Jun 23, 2012, 11:13 am) |
Congrats to all from the Chinese Empire, currently struggling for control of the under-earth with the Mole people...
On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 12:09 PM, Warren Fleming <alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com> wrote:
Congrats guys. Whew!
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:42:47 -0500
Subject: DC399 - Spring 2010
From: worldwidegm(at)gmail.com
To: amtrating(at)gmail.com; gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com; jerome777(at)ymail.com; Maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk; mjn82(at)yahoo.com; nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com; sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com; timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com; alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com; dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com
...and that's all, folks.
After a number of attempts, the PQAO draw has passed and the game is over. I can think of a few players who would rather have seen the game end earlier, but it was not to be. Congratulations to Andrew, Jerome, Max and Tim on prevailing to the end. Congrats as well to Warren and Michael for their survivals. It's tough being under attack for the whole game, so thanks for sticking with us.
The selfish part of me wanted to see this game keep going, as I wanted to see Persia and Quebec go at it over the Europe/Russia border, giving the map a good test. But, I also see that if they did that Ociania and Amazon had enough control over the oceans to make their lives miserable. I really thought a 2-way was in the cards. But that is not to be.
I'd love to hear your comments both about the game and the map. I continue to tweak and test to try to make it better.
mvp
--
Gino Karczewski
765 Amsterdam Avenue #10-J
New York, NY 10025
917-434-9008 Mobile
646-807-4702 Fax[Reply] |
| DC399 - Spring 2010 - alwayshunted (Jun 23, 2012, 11:09 am) |
Congrats guys. Whew!
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:42:47 -0500
Subject: DC399 - Spring 2010
From: worldwidegm(at)gmail.com
To: amtrating(at)gmail.com; gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com; jerome777(at)ymail.com; Maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk; mjn82(at)yahoo.com; nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com; sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com; timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com; alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com; dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com
...and that's all, folks.
After a number of attempts, the PQAO draw has passed and the game is over. I can think of a few players who would rather have seen the game end earlier, but it was not to be. Congratulations to Andrew, Jerome, Max and Tim on prevailing to the end. Congrats as well to Warren and Michael for their survivals. It's tough being under attack for the whole game, so thanks for sticking with us.
The selfish part of me wanted to see this game keep going, as I wanted to see Persia and Quebec go at it over the Europe/Russia border, giving the map a good test. But, I also see that if they did that Ociania and Amazon had enough control over the oceans to make their lives miserable. I really thought a 2-way was in the cards. But that is not to be.
I'd love to hear your comments both about the game and the map. I continue to tweak and test to try to make it better.
mvp[Reply] |
| DC399 - Spring 2010 - Viper (Jun 23, 2012, 10:42 am) |
...and that's all, folks.
After a number of attempts, the PQAO draw has passed and the game is over. I can think of a few players who would rather have seen the game end earlier, but it was not to be. Congratulations to Andrew, Jerome, Max and Tim on prevailing to the end. Congrats as well to Warren and Michael for their survivals. It's tough being under attack for the whole game, so thanks for sticking with us.
The selfish part of me wanted to see this game keep going, as I wanted to see Persia and Quebec go at it over the Europe/Russia border, giving the map a good test. But, I also see that if they did that Ociania and Amazon had enough control over the oceans to make their lives miserable. I really thought a 2-way was in the cards. But that is not to be.
I'd love to hear your comments both about the game and the map. I continue to tweak and test to try to make it better.
mvp[Reply] |
| DC399 - Spring 2010 (dc399) alwayshunted Jun 23, 11:09 am |
Congrats guys. Whew!
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:42:47 -0500
Subject: DC399 - Spring 2010
From: worldwidegm(at)gmail.com
To: amtrating(at)gmail.com; gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com; jerome777(at)ymail.com; Maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk; mjn82(at)yahoo.com; nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com; sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com; timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com; alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com; dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com
...and that's all, folks.
After a number of attempts, the PQAO draw has passed and the game is over. I can think of a few players who would rather have seen the game end earlier, but it was not to be. Congratulations to Andrew, Jerome, Max and Tim on prevailing to the end. Congrats as well to Warren and Michael for their survivals. It's tough being under attack for the whole game, so thanks for sticking with us.
The selfish part of me wanted to see this game keep going, as I wanted to see Persia and Quebec go at it over the Europe/Russia border, giving the map a good test. But, I also see that if they did that Ociania and Amazon had enough control over the oceans to make their lives miserable. I really thought a 2-way was in the cards. But that is not to be.
I'd love to hear your comments both about the game and the map. I continue to tweak and test to try to make it better.
mvp |
| DC399 - Spring 2010 (dc399) GinoKay Jun 23, 11:13 am |
Congrats to all from the Chinese Empire, currently struggling for control of the under-earth with the Mole people...
On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 12:09 PM, Warren Fleming <alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com> wrote:
Congrats guys. Whew!
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:42:47 -0500
Subject: DC399 - Spring 2010
From: worldwidegm(at)gmail.com
To: amtrating(at)gmail.com; gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com; jerome777(at)ymail.com; Maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk; mjn82(at)yahoo.com; nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com; sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com; timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com; alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com; dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com
...and that's all, folks.
After a number of attempts, the PQAO draw has passed and the game is over. I can think of a few players who would rather have seen the game end earlier, but it was not to be. Congratulations to Andrew, Jerome, Max and Tim on prevailing to the end. Congrats as well to Warren and Michael for their survivals. It's tough being under attack for the whole game, so thanks for sticking with us.
The selfish part of me wanted to see this game keep going, as I wanted to see Persia and Quebec go at it over the Europe/Russia border, giving the map a good test. But, I also see that if they did that Ociania and Amazon had enough control over the oceans to make their lives miserable. I really thought a 2-way was in the cards. But that is not to be.
I'd love to hear your comments both about the game and the map. I continue to tweak and test to try to make it better.
mvp
--
Gino Karczewski
765 Amsterdam Avenue #10-J
New York, NY 10025
917-434-9008 Mobile
646-807-4702 Fax |
| DC399 - Spring 2010 (dc399) mjn82 Jun 23, 12:17 pm |
Congrats to you guys. Espeically Max! Although I have less territory than when I started, Egypt's a great place to retire and rule with all the creature comforts. I love the Med! Mike
From: Gino Karczewski <gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com>
To: Warren Fleming <alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com>
Cc: Michael Penner <worldwidegm(at)gmail.com>; amtrating(at)gmail.com; jerome777(at)ymail.com; maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk; mjn82(at)yahoo.com; nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com; sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com; timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com; dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com
Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2012 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: DC399 - Spring 2010
Congrats to all from the Chinese Empire, currently struggling for control of the under-earth with the Mole people...
On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 12:09 PM, Warren Fleming <alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com> wrote:
Congrats guys. Whew!
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:42:47 -0500
Subject: DC399 - Spring 2010
From: worldwidegm(at)gmail.com
To: amtrating(at)gmail.com; gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com; jerome777(at)ymail.com; Maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk; mjn82(at)yahoo.com; nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com; sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com; timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com; alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com; dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com
...and that's all, folks.
After a number of attempts, the PQAO draw has passed and the game is over. I can think of a few players who would rather have seen the game end earlier, but it was not to be. Congratulations to Andrew, Jerome, Max and Tim on prevailing to the end. Congrats as well to Warren and Michael for their survivals. It's tough being under attack for the whole game, so thanks for sticking with us.
The selfish part of me wanted to see this game keep going, as I wanted to see Persia and Quebec go at it over the Europe/Russia border, giving the map a good test. But, I also see that if they did that Ociania and Amazon had enough control over the oceans to make their lives miserable. I really thought a 2-way was in the cards. But that is not to be.
I'd love to hear your comments both about the game and the map. I continue to tweak and test to try to make it better.
mvp
--
Gino Karczewski
765 Amsterdam Avenue #10-J
New York, NY 10025
917-434-9008 Mobile
646-807-4702 Fax |
| DC399 - Spring 2010 (dc399) AMT Jun 23, 12:32 pm |
Good game everyone! Thanks MVP for GMing!
I'll do a debrief with map comments later this weekend
On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 10:17 AM, Michael Norton <mjn82(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
Congrats to you guys. Espeically Max! Although I have less territory than when I started, Egypt's a great place to retire and rule with all the creature comforts. I love the Med!
Mike
From: Gino Karczewski <gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com>
To: Warren Fleming <alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com>
Cc: Michael Penner <worldwidegm(at)gmail.com>; amtrating(at)gmail.com; jerome777(at)ymail.com; maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk; mjn82(at)yahoo.com; nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com; sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com; timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com; dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com
Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2012 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: DC399 - Spring 2010
Congrats to all from the Chinese Empire, currently struggling for control of the under-earth with the Mole people...
On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 12:09 PM, Warren Fleming <alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com> wrote:
Congrats guys. Whew!
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:42:47 -0500
Subject: DC399 - Spring 2010
From: worldwidegm(at)gmail.com
To: amtrating(at)gmail.com; gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com; jerome777(at)ymail.com; Maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk; mjn82(at)yahoo.com; nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com; sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com; timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com; alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com; dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com
...and that's all, folks.
After a number of attempts, the PQAO draw has passed and the game is over. I can think of a few players who would rather have seen the game end earlier, but it was not to be. Congratulations to Andrew, Jerome, Max and Tim on prevailing to the end. Congrats as well to Warren and Michael for their survivals. It's tough being under attack for the whole game, so thanks for sticking with us.
The selfish part of me wanted to see this game keep going, as I wanted to see Persia and Quebec go at it over the Europe/Russia border, giving the map a good test. But, I also see that if they did that Ociania and Amazon had enough control over the oceans to make their lives miserable. I really thought a 2-way was in the cards. But that is not to be.
I'd love to hear your comments both about the game and the map. I continue to tweak and test to try to make it better.
mvp
--
Gino Karczewski
765 Amsterdam Avenue #10-J
New York, NY 10025
917-434-9008 Mobile
646-807-4702 Fax |
| DC399 - Spring 2010 (dc399) jerome777 Jun 23, 05:05 pm |
Hi everyone,I'll send a proper EGS tomorrow, but in the meantime I just wanted to say 'congrats' to my fellow draw-sharers, 'well done' to Mike and Warren for surviving, 'unlucky' to Sean, Nick and Doug, and a big 'thank you' to Mike for GMing the game so well. More tomorrow. JeromeSent from my BlackBerry® smartphoneFrom: Michael Norton <mjn82(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:17:53 -0700 (PDT)To: Gino Karczewski<gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com>; Warren Fleming<alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com>ReplyTo: Michael Norton <mjn82(at)yahoo.com>
Cc: Michael Penner<worldwidegm(at)gmail.com>; amtrating(at)gmail.com<amtrating(at)gmail.com>; jerome777(at)ymail.com<jerome777(at)ymail.com>; maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk<maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk>; nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com<nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com>; sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com<sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com>; timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com<timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com>; dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com<dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com>; dougray30(at)yahoo.com<dougray30(at)yahoo.com>Subject: Re: DC399 - Spring 2010Congrats to you guys. Espeically Max! Although I have less territory than when I started, Egypt's a great place to retire and rule with all the creature comforts. I love the Med! Mike
From: Gino Karczewski <gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com>
To: Warren Fleming <alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com>
Cc: Michael Penner <worldwidegm(at)gmail.com>; amtrating(at)gmail.com; jerome777(at)ymail.com; maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk; mjn82(at)yahoo.com; nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com; sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com; timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com; dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com
Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2012 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: DC399 - Spring 2010
Congrats to all from the Chinese Empire, currently struggling for control of the under-earth with the Mole people...
On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 12:09 PM, Warren Fleming <alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com> wrote:
Congrats guys. Whew!
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:42:47 -0500
Subject: DC399 - Spring 2010
From: worldwidegm(at)gmail.com
To: amtrating(at)gmail.com; gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com; jerome777(at)ymail.com; Maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk; mjn82(at)yahoo.com; nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com; sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com; timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com; alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com; dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com
...and that's all, folks.
After a number of attempts, the PQAO draw has passed and the game is over. I can think of a few players who would rather have seen the game end earlier, but it was not to be. Congratulations to Andrew, Jerome, Max and Tim on prevailing to the end. Congrats as well to Warren and Michael for their survivals. It's tough being under attack for the whole game, so thanks for sticking with us.
The selfish part of me wanted to see this game keep going, as I wanted to see Persia and Quebec go at it over the Europe/Russia border, giving the map a good test. But, I also see that if they did that Ociania and Amazon had enough control over the oceans to make their lives miserable. I really thought a 2-way was in the cards. But that is not to be.
I'd love to hear your comments both about the game and the map. I continue to tweak and test to try to make it better.
mvp
--
Gino Karczewski
765 Amsterdam Avenue #10-J
New York, NY 10025
917-434-9008 Mobile
646-807-4702 Fax |
| dc418 Russian EOG - derekthefeared2 (Jun 23, 2012, 8:27 am) |
Haha, well I guess I played myself quite the fool at the end of this game. On multiple ways it seems. Got too caught up in my "creative" idea and probably followed through somewhat just to justify the deal to myself. Had this not been a tournament game certainly it would have played out differently. Anyway good game.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 23, 2012, at 12:40 AM, Dan Dzikowicz <ddz999cat23(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
Russian EOG
First of all, many thanks, Christine for a great game. Appreciate the work that made it happen.
In my first round game I was specifically looking for a
2-way draw so as not to be a top target in round 2 while still within striking
distance of the prize. It paid off a bit
as Tim was certainly to top target from the get-go. Also I kept my eye on my round 1 partner,
Viper, but he couldn???t make it happen
Anyway, a great Russian Spring 1901 turned into a bleak Fall
as both Austria and Germany stabbed. I
saw how Andrew might double cross us-both, but I was sort of counting on
Germany???s pledge of support to allow me into Swe. Not the first of Steve???s stabs before all would
be said and done.
My decision to ignore the defense of my center and focus on
attacking in the north and south turned out to be the right move in the face of
the combined GA start which turned out to be a good thing . Though by the end of 1903 I had lost both Mos
and War. And BTW Kudos to Tim for surviving
the early loss of PAR. No small feat.
Moving along faster, Derek???s return to the east and his war
on Austria saved the day for Will and I and things were pretty dicey in the southwest
for a while until Derek and I finally emerged as the dominant alliance. Mike NMRs (booooo) and Andrew is dispatched
and we essentially have 5 left. Will???s SCs would be needed to take out Tim,
so he was the logical next step. Though
Derek and I talked about keeping him bottled up for while in case we needed to
eliminate both Tim and Steve and keep a third around for the endgame.
Steve had a chance while he stuck with us. Not much of one, but it was his only possible
play. The fact that Tim was the solo
from round one made the GRI more desirable than the FIR. But??? in the end it really didn???t matter as
Derek and I were not in it for the 3 way.
Now, here??? is where it gets philosophical. I would have been happy with the 2-way as it
would have been the WB winner as long as another board didn???t produce a
solo. But one did.
As Derek mentioned he offered me a ???roll of the dice??? 50-50
shot at the solo. Loser allows the other
to solo. Derek???s use of the hold/move
scenario to roll the dice was pretty clever and it kept it on the board. However,
on the surface it appeared in opposition to the game. Would one of us ever actually allow the other
to solo and give up an obvious 3-way draw for a survival. Now, in Derek???s defense it???s possible you could make
an argument that - assuming two honest players who would follow through on the
agreement ??? a 50-50 shot at a solo (and the WB championship) is better than an
automatic loss. Gentleman???s agreement
and the roll of the dice. After all we
had done a lot of work to get to the point where Derek and I were in complete
control of the board. Why settle in for
the 3-way? So I don???t blame Derek for
the idea, or for following through.
Tim did the right thing by stuffing one of us and letting
the other grow. The only possible
mistake he made on the board that I could see (other than allowing Mun ??? Bur)
was that he should have blockaded me, and let Derek advance. Could he have known that I would definitely
have stabbed Derek if the shoe was on the other foot? Maybe.
Maybe not. Because I was certainly
NOT planning on letting Derek solo if I had lost the ???roll of the dice???. Had I lost I would have made a break for the
solo through the Balkans and North Sea.
Maybe I could have made it, maybe not.
You see I agreed to the deal just to see what would happen. It???s one thing to make a deal like that, it???s
another to follow through.
And now here???s the last twist. It???s like a Kaiser Sose moment. Derek had worked out the hold/move ???roll of
the dice??? idea and I did decide to roll the dice with him. So just a couple of hours before orders were
due one Thursday I wrote him and told him something like ???I like your plan with
the hold/move, let???s do it next turn.???
NEXT turn Derek. ???NEXT??? turn. Derek thought I meant the turn we were in
with adjudication in a couple of hours (it can read that way so not really a
mistake) but I meant the following turn.
Anyway, he immediately sent back the details of the scenario and didn???t wait
for a response. A few hours later, after
that morning???s adjudication, Derek sent me the note ???Congrats on winning the WB???
or words to that effect. That took me by
surprise and then I looked back at the email and realized what happened. Anyway, I wasn???t going to tell him. And the rest worked itself out on the board
as Derek followed through.
Anyway, a VERY enjoyable game. Yes, winning helps, but it really was a very
well fought game by most. Thanks all and thanks again Christine.
Dan
From: GM Christine <dawench(at)hotmail.com>
To: odvaha(at)aol.com; wtfleming(at)msn.com; timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com; derekthefeared2(at)yahoo.com; ddz999cat23(at)yahoo.com; blitz(at)diplomaticcorp.com; landru428(at)aol.com; tmssteve(at)gmail.com; kielmarch(at)hotmail.com; mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2012 8:27 AM
Subject: dc418 Game over
Board:
Austria - landru428 - Andrew Cassese - eliminated F '05
England - RickHunter - Mike Brady - eliminated '07
France - fencertim -Timothy Crosby
Germany - stevec - Steve Cooley
Italy - derekthefeared2 -Derek Eiler
Russia - ddz999cat23 - Daniel Dzikowicz - Solo '11
Turkey - MrSmiley - Will Fleming - eliminted '08
GM Note:
A Russian Solo has been achieved, congratulations Dan.
Thank you all for playing, I hope you will submit EOGs. Some moves in this game were mystifying!
Final Supply Center Count:
Austria: 0
England: 0
France: 5
Germany: 1
Italy: 10
Russia: 18
Turkey: 0
Map:
http://home.comcast.net/~dawench/418/41811EG.gif
Orders and Results:
France:
F Brest - English Channel
A Burgundy Supports A Spain - Marseilles
F English Channel - North Sea
A Gascony Supports F Portugal - Spain(sc)
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean - North Atlantic Ocean
A Munich - Kiel (*Dislodged*)
F North Atlantic Ocean - Norwegian Sea
F Portugal - Spain(sc) (*Bounce*)
F Skagerrak Supports F English Channel - North Sea
A Spain - Marseilles
Germany:
A Ruhr - Belgium
Italy:
A Bohemia - Munich (*Fails*)
A Bulgaria - Rumania (*Bounce*)
A Greece - Bulgaria (*Bounce*)
F Gulf of Lyon Supports F Western Mediterranean - Spain(sc)
F North Africa - Mid-Atlantic Ocean
A Piedmont - Marseilles (*Fails*)
A Tyrolia - Piedmont (*Fails*)
F Tyrrhenian Sea - Western Mediterranean (*Fails*)
F Western Mediterranean - Spain(sc) (*Bounce*)
Russia:
A Armenia Hold
F Baltic Sea - Denmark
A Berlin Supports A Silesia - Munich
A Constantinople - Bulgaria (*Bounce*)
A
Kiel Supports A Silesia - Munich
A Liverpool Hold
F London Hold
F North Sea - Holland
F Norway - Sweden
A Sevastopol - Rumania (*Bounce*)
A Silesia - Munich
Retreat Due:
French A Munich can retreat to Ruhr or OTB.
------------------------
Speed is the essence of war. Take advantage
of the enemy's unpreparedness; travel by
unexpected routes and strike him where he
has taken no precautions.
Sun
Tzu
=[Reply] |
| dc418 Russian EOG - ddz999cat23 (Jun 22, 2012, 11:40 pm) |
Russian EOG
First of all, many thanks, Christine for a great game. Appreciate the work that made it happen.
In my first round game I was specifically looking for a
2-way draw so as not to be a top target in round 2 while still within striking
distance of the prize. It paid off a bit
as Tim was certainly to top target from the get-go. Also I kept my eye on my round 1 partner,
Viper, but he couldn???t make it happen
Anyway, a great Russian Spring 1901 turned into a bleak Fall
as both Austria and Germany stabbed. I
saw how Andrew might double cross us-both, but I was sort of counting on
Germany???s pledge of support to allow me into Swe. Not the first of Steve???s stabs before all would
be said and done.
My decision to ignore the defense of my center and focus on
attacking in the north and south turned out to be the right move in the face of
the combined GA start which turned out to be a good thing . Though by the end of 1903 I had lost both Mos
and War. And BTW Kudos to Tim for surviving
the early loss of PAR. No small feat.
Moving along faster, Derek???s return to the east and his war
on Austria saved the day for Will and I and things were pretty dicey in the southwest
for a while until Derek and I finally emerged as the dominant alliance. Mike NMRs (booooo) and Andrew is dispatched
and we essentially have 5 left. Will???s SCs would be needed to take out Tim,
so he was the logical next step. Though
Derek and I talked about keeping him bottled up for while in case we needed to
eliminate both Tim and Steve and keep a third around for the endgame.
Steve had a chance while he stuck with us. Not much of one, but it was his only possible
play. The fact that Tim was the solo
from round one made the GRI more desirable than the FIR. But??? in the end it really didn???t matter as
Derek and I were not in it for the 3 way.
Now, here??? is where it gets philosophical. I would have been happy with the 2-way as it
would have been the WB winner as long as another board didn???t produce a
solo. But one did.
As Derek mentioned he offered me a ???roll of the dice??? 50-50
shot at the solo. Loser allows the other
to solo. Derek???s use of the hold/move
scenario to roll the dice was pretty clever and it kept it on the board. However,
on the surface it appeared in opposition to the game. Would one of us ever actually allow the other
to solo and give up an obvious 3-way draw for a survival. Now, in Derek???s defense it???s possible you could make
an argument that - assuming two honest players who would follow through on the
agreement ??? a 50-50 shot at a solo (and the WB championship) is better than an
automatic loss. Gentleman???s agreement
and the roll of the dice. After all we
had done a lot of work to get to the point where Derek and I were in complete
control of the board. Why settle in for
the 3-way? So I don???t blame Derek for
the idea, or for following through.
Tim did the right thing by stuffing one of us and letting
the other grow. The only possible
mistake he made on the board that I could see (other than allowing Mun ??? Bur)
was that he should have blockaded me, and let Derek advance. Could he have known that I would definitely
have stabbed Derek if the shoe was on the other foot? Maybe.
Maybe not. Because I was certainly
NOT planning on letting Derek solo if I had lost the ???roll of the dice???. Had I lost I would have made a break for the
solo through the Balkans and North Sea.
Maybe I could have made it, maybe not.
You see I agreed to the deal just to see what would happen. It???s one thing to make a deal like that, it???s
another to follow through.
And now here???s the last twist. It???s like a Kaiser Sose moment. Derek had worked out the hold/move ???roll of
the dice??? idea and I did decide to roll the dice with him. So just a couple of hours before orders were
due one Thursday I wrote him and told him something like ???I like your plan with
the hold/move, let???s do it next turn.???
NEXT turn Derek. ???NEXT??? turn. Derek thought I meant the turn we were in
with adjudication in a couple of hours (it can read that way so not really a
mistake) but I meant the following turn.
Anyway, he immediately sent back the details of the scenario and didn???t wait
for a response. A few hours later, after
that morning???s adjudication, Derek sent me the note ???Congrats on winning the WB???
or words to that effect. That took me by
surprise and then I looked back at the email and realized what happened. Anyway, I wasn???t going to tell him. And the rest worked itself out on the board
as Derek followed through.
Anyway, a VERY enjoyable game. Yes, winning helps, but it really was a very
well fought game by most. Thanks all and thanks again Christine.
Dan
From: GM Christine <dawench(at)hotmail.com>
To: odvaha(at)aol.com; wtfleming(at)msn.com; timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com; derekthefeared2(at)yahoo.com; ddz999cat23(at)yahoo.com; blitz(at)diplomaticcorp.com; landru428(at)aol.com; tmssteve(at)gmail.com; kielmarch(at)hotmail.com; mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2012 8:27 AM
Subject: dc418 Game over
Board:
Austria - landru428 - Andrew Cassese - eliminated F '05
England - RickHunter - Mike Brady - eliminated '07
France - fencertim -Timothy Crosby
Germany - stevec - Steve Cooley
Italy - derekthefeared2 -Derek Eiler
Russia - ddz999cat23 - Daniel Dzikowicz - Solo '11
Turkey - MrSmiley - Will Fleming - eliminted '08
GM Note:
A Russian Solo has been achieved, congratulations Dan.
Thank you all for playing, I hope you will submit EOGs. Some moves in this game were mystifying!
Final Supply Center Count:
Austria: 0
England: 0
France: 5
Germany: 1
Italy: 10
Russia: 18
Turkey: 0
Map:
http://home.comcast.net/~dawench/418/41811EG.gif
Orders and Results:
France:
F Brest - English Channel
A Burgundy Supports A Spain - Marseilles
F English Channel - North Sea
A Gascony Supports F Portugal - Spain(sc)
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean - North Atlantic Ocean
A Munich - Kiel (*Dislodged*)
F North Atlantic Ocean - Norwegian Sea
F Portugal - Spain(sc) (*Bounce*)
F Skagerrak Supports F English Channel - North Sea
A Spain - Marseilles
Germany:
A Ruhr - Belgium
Italy:
A Bohemia - Munich (*Fails*)
A Bulgaria - Rumania (*Bounce*)
A Greece - Bulgaria (*Bounce*)
F Gulf of Lyon Supports F Western Mediterranean - Spain(sc)
F North Africa - Mid-Atlantic Ocean
A Piedmont - Marseilles (*Fails*)
A Tyrolia - Piedmont (*Fails*)
F Tyrrhenian Sea - Western Mediterranean (*Fails*)
F Western Mediterranean - Spain(sc) (*Bounce*)
Russia:
A Armenia Hold
F Baltic Sea - Denmark
A Berlin Supports A Silesia - Munich
A Constantinople - Bulgaria (*Bounce*)
A
Kiel Supports A Silesia - Munich
A Liverpool Hold
F London Hold
F North Sea - Holland
F Norway - Sweden
A Sevastopol - Rumania (*Bounce*)
A Silesia - Munich
Retreat Due:
French A Munich can retreat to Ruhr or OTB.
------------------------
Speed is the essence of war. Take advantage
of the enemy's unpreparedness; travel by
unexpected routes and strike him where he
has taken no precautions.
Sun
Tzu[Reply] |
| dc418 Russian EOG (Winter Blitz) derekthefeared2 Jun 23, 08:27 am |
Haha, well I guess I played myself quite the fool at the end of this game. On multiple ways it seems. Got too caught up in my "creative" idea and probably followed through somewhat just to justify the deal to myself. Had this not been a tournament game certainly it would have played out differently. Anyway good game.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 23, 2012, at 12:40 AM, Dan Dzikowicz <ddz999cat23(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
Russian EOG
First of all, many thanks, Christine for a great game. Appreciate the work that made it happen.
In my first round game I was specifically looking for a
2-way draw so as not to be a top target in round 2 while still within striking
distance of the prize. It paid off a bit
as Tim was certainly to top target from the get-go. Also I kept my eye on my round 1 partner,
Viper, but he couldn???t make it happen
Anyway, a great Russian Spring 1901 turned into a bleak Fall
as both Austria and Germany stabbed. I
saw how Andrew might double cross us-both, but I was sort of counting on
Germany???s pledge of support to allow me into Swe. Not the first of Steve???s stabs before all would
be said and done.
My decision to ignore the defense of my center and focus on
attacking in the north and south turned out to be the right move in the face of
the combined GA start which turned out to be a good thing . Though by the end of 1903 I had lost both Mos
and War. And BTW Kudos to Tim for surviving
the early loss of PAR. No small feat.
Moving along faster, Derek???s return to the east and his war
on Austria saved the day for Will and I and things were pretty dicey in the southwest
for a while until Derek and I finally emerged as the dominant alliance. Mike NMRs (booooo) and Andrew is dispatched
and we essentially have 5 left. Will???s SCs would be needed to take out Tim,
so he was the logical next step. Though
Derek and I talked about keeping him bottled up for while in case we needed to
eliminate both Tim and Steve and keep a third around for the endgame.
Steve had a chance while he stuck with us. Not much of one, but it was his only possible
play. The fact that Tim was the solo
from round one made the GRI more desirable than the FIR. But??? in the end it really didn???t matter as
Derek and I were not in it for the 3 way.
Now, here??? is where it gets philosophical. I would have been happy with the 2-way as it
would have been the WB winner as long as another board didn???t produce a
solo. But one did.
As Derek mentioned he offered me a ???roll of the dice??? 50-50
shot at the solo. Loser allows the other
to solo. Derek???s use of the hold/move
scenario to roll the dice was pretty clever and it kept it on the board. However,
on the surface it appeared in opposition to the game. Would one of us ever actually allow the other
to solo and give up an obvious 3-way draw for a survival. Now, in Derek???s defense it???s possible you could make
an argument that - assuming two honest players who would follow through on the
agreement ??? a 50-50 shot at a solo (and the WB championship) is better than an
automatic loss. Gentleman???s agreement
and the roll of the dice. After all we
had done a lot of work to get to the point where Derek and I were in complete
control of the board. Why settle in for
the 3-way? So I don???t blame Derek for
the idea, or for following through.
Tim did the right thing by stuffing one of us and letting
the other grow. The only possible
mistake he made on the board that I could see (other than allowing Mun ??? Bur)
was that he should have blockaded me, and let Derek advance. Could he have known that I would definitely
have stabbed Derek if the shoe was on the other foot? Maybe.
Maybe not. Because I was certainly
NOT planning on letting Derek solo if I had lost the ???roll of the dice???. Had I lost I would have made a break for the
solo through the Balkans and North Sea.
Maybe I could have made it, maybe not.
You see I agreed to the deal just to see what would happen. It???s one thing to make a deal like that, it???s
another to follow through.
And now here???s the last twist. It???s like a Kaiser Sose moment. Derek had worked out the hold/move ???roll of
the dice??? idea and I did decide to roll the dice with him. So just a couple of hours before orders were
due one Thursday I wrote him and told him something like ???I like your plan with
the hold/move, let???s do it next turn.???
NEXT turn Derek. ???NEXT??? turn. Derek thought I meant the turn we were in
with adjudication in a couple of hours (it can read that way so not really a
mistake) but I meant the following turn.
Anyway, he immediately sent back the details of the scenario and didn???t wait
for a response. A few hours later, after
that morning???s adjudication, Derek sent me the note ???Congrats on winning the WB???
or words to that effect. That took me by
surprise and then I looked back at the email and realized what happened. Anyway, I wasn???t going to tell him. And the rest worked itself out on the board
as Derek followed through.
Anyway, a VERY enjoyable game. Yes, winning helps, but it really was a very
well fought game by most. Thanks all and thanks again Christine.
Dan
From: GM Christine <dawench(at)hotmail.com>
To: odvaha(at)aol.com; wtfleming(at)msn.com; timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com; derekthefeared2(at)yahoo.com; ddz999cat23(at)yahoo.com; blitz(at)diplomaticcorp.com; landru428(at)aol.com; tmssteve(at)gmail.com; kielmarch(at)hotmail.com; mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2012 8:27 AM
Subject: dc418 Game over
Board:
Austria - landru428 - Andrew Cassese - eliminated F '05
England - RickHunter - Mike Brady - eliminated '07
France - fencertim -Timothy Crosby
Germany - stevec - Steve Cooley
Italy - derekthefeared2 -Derek Eiler
Russia - ddz999cat23 - Daniel Dzikowicz - Solo '11
Turkey - MrSmiley - Will Fleming - eliminted '08
GM Note:
A Russian Solo has been achieved, congratulations Dan.
Thank you all for playing, I hope you will submit EOGs. Some moves in this game were mystifying!
Final Supply Center Count:
Austria: 0
England: 0
France: 5
Germany: 1
Italy: 10
Russia: 18
Turkey: 0
Map:
http://home.comcast.net/~dawench/418/41811EG.gif
Orders and Results:
France:
F Brest - English Channel
A Burgundy Supports A Spain - Marseilles
F English Channel - North Sea
A Gascony Supports F Portugal - Spain(sc)
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean - North Atlantic Ocean
A Munich - Kiel (*Dislodged*)
F North Atlantic Ocean - Norwegian Sea
F Portugal - Spain(sc) (*Bounce*)
F Skagerrak Supports F English Channel - North Sea
A Spain - Marseilles
Germany:
A Ruhr - Belgium
Italy:
A Bohemia - Munich (*Fails*)
A Bulgaria - Rumania (*Bounce*)
A Greece - Bulgaria (*Bounce*)
F Gulf of Lyon Supports F Western Mediterranean - Spain(sc)
F North Africa - Mid-Atlantic Ocean
A Piedmont - Marseilles (*Fails*)
A Tyrolia - Piedmont (*Fails*)
F Tyrrhenian Sea - Western Mediterranean (*Fails*)
F Western Mediterranean - Spain(sc) (*Bounce*)
Russia:
A Armenia Hold
F Baltic Sea - Denmark
A Berlin Supports A Silesia - Munich
A Constantinople - Bulgaria (*Bounce*)
A
Kiel Supports A Silesia - Munich
A Liverpool Hold
F London Hold
F North Sea - Holland
F Norway - Sweden
A Sevastopol - Rumania (*Bounce*)
A Silesia - Munich
Retreat Due:
French A Munich can retreat to Ruhr or OTB.
------------------------
Speed is the essence of war. Take advantage
of the enemy's unpreparedness; travel by
unexpected routes and strike him where he
has taken no precautions.
Sun
Tzu
= |
| DC428 Winter 1902 Adjustments - Zoterik (Jun 22, 2012, 8:57 pm) |
Here are the adjustments for 1902. England and Italy build a fleet apiece, while Russia adds two armies. The Spring 1903 deadline is 9:00pm CST on 27th June, or 03:00 BST on 28th June. I have a feeling this year could make or break a few nations, and I'm looking forward to the orders.
England
Build F London
Italy
Build F Naples
Russia
Build A WarsawBuild A Petersburg
A/F/G/T
-no adjustments-
Center Counts:Austria: 5
England: 6France: 4Germany: 4Italy: 4
Russia: 8Turkey: 3[Reply] |
| dc418 Game over - landru428 (Jun 21, 2012, 7:53 pm) |
Congrats Dan! Impressive going from 2 centers to a tourmant winning solo. I'm travelling so I'll submit a brief EOG in the next day or so basically consisting of an 'I told you so' and an expanation as to why I went kamikazi on Turkey. Thank you Christine, GG to everybody and I can't wait until next year!
Andrew [Reply] |
| dc418 Germany's EOG - stevec (Jun 21, 2012, 4:58 pm) |
I have played in GM Christine's games before, so I knew she would do a great job and she did not disappoint. Thank you, Christine!
Congratulations to Dan on winning the game and the tournament!
Going into the game, my attitude was to play the game and ignore the tournament. However, in short order it became clear that others did not feel the same way (allegedly). Most of the other players, notably England and Italy, seemed to have at least an inkling that Tim should be thrown under the bus as he was the tournament leader.
While an EG was slightly less enticing than an FG, when Derek came on board, two things became clear to me: 1) that I could, potentially, play an IG in the west and an AG in the east, and 2) that it was better to have all the angst pointed anywhere else than me.
However, the odds of me getting into Bur were low. In fact, I didn't really think I would get it. I was satisfied to play a bit neutrally in 1901. So, I asked Tim if he wanted to bounce in Bur or dmz it. He told me he doesn't like dmz's and we sort of just agreed to not go there. Well, knowing that Italy was opening west and believing England was as well, this seemed an ideal situation.
In retrospect, I should have noticed one problem immediately. Mike was not much of a writer. That's not a good thing.
For me, the game went south in spring 1902. I'd built F Kie instead of F Berlin because I didn't want to broadcast my intention to go after Russia. Shortly before the deadline, mostly because Mike had been silent, I had the overwhelming urge to support A Hol. I did not do it and Mike blew up my army. That was some commitment to going after France—it lasted all of one turn (the fall move to Bel was not anti-French).
Meanwhile, Andrew and I were getting along very well. We seemed to be on the same page and things were, for the most part, going as planned. However, when we had Warsaw and Moscow, Derek had begun his assault on Austria. This distracted Andrew and Will's refusal to join us led to some nearly inexplicable ill-will from Andrew toward Will. I will say that Turkey played a very puzzling game.
Actually, if I could summarize how Russia won, it would be this: this was a game in which England and Turkey were largely absent, Germany and France took turns belting each other, Italy left Turkey alone and wiped Austria out, and Russia's only "enemies" (AG) were too weakened by others to take him out. Plus, Dan showed great resilience. I don't know many players who could lose War/Mos and basically be cut in two, then go onto win the game. Frankly, I think Will and Mike bear the brunt of the blame, but the rest of us contributed, particularly Derek.
Derek will surely object. He will note that he was playing his game and others conspired to give the game to Dan. While that is superficially true, Derek could and should have worked out a deal with Tim. They had an easy path to a 3-way draw, one in which Derek might likely have come out on top. Instead, Derek insisted on banging his head against the wall. While I can't take credit for much in this game, I did delight in Tim's move that destroyed F Spain. Why? Well, because I suggested it. I knew it would work because Derek was thinking too much in a "straight line."
A word about each player:
Austria: Andrew played well, communicated well, but probably should have chosen a different path than the kamikaze vs. Turkey. It could not work with no fleets.
England: Mike started well, but either lost interest or could not maintain focus. His Spring 1902 attack on Holland was not a good move for him. If you take that kind of cheap attack, you'll never maintain an alliance that has any value. Nmr'ing is bad. Abandoning a game without explanation is worse, far worse.
France: Tim played an excellent game. The imbalanced defense he employed is perfectly legitimate. The entire idea is to put pressure on the other player (In this case, Italy) to turn around before the player you're not defending against wins. Derek didn't get it and therefore the game was lost. I thought Tim erred in stabbing me for two dots. I think if he'd have stuck with me then, we might well have rolled the board—and he always would have had the upper hand. He thought I should have switched back to him sooner, but it was a case of once bitten, twice shy. I could not begin working with him until I was sure stabbing me again was not in his best interests.
Italy: Derek played an okay game. I am not sure he gets the game as well as Dan and Tim do. The game is about people and communication above dots and position. When I was working with Dan and Derek, I would frequently get one-sentence emails from Derek at the last minute. When you are trying to win a game, you need to do better than that. I agreed with Tim that Dan should win because he ultimately worked to win the game.
Russia: I think I've said most of what I can say. Great game! You deserve the win and the WB win. Not many players would hang in there and do what you did.
Turkey: see my comments re: England. Additionally, failing to capitalize on opportunities like you had in this game is mystifying. You could and should have topped the board. Think about this: Italy never came after you! How many games does that happen in?
I don't normally play on this site, but this was a good experience. I do think the game was totally twisted by the disappearance of two players and that is unfortunate, but total credit to Dan for the win.
Best regards,
Steve[Reply] |
| dc 418 France EOG - fencertim (Jun 21, 2012, 11:08 am) |
Thank you Christine! What a fab GM you are...you set a standard that all GM's should be looking to achieve.
Dan, congratulations on the win and the WB win as well.
This is going to be VERY long.
I came into the game with a Rd1 solo and knew right away that i was the immediate target. Some of you even said your number one goal was to see that i was eliminated and you would work every minute to see that happen. I actually appreciated that frankness.
I could not make any real plans but i tired to hook up with England and Italy.....I also had talks with Germany but no expectations from anyone. Germany came out and attacked BUR, I bounced with Italy in PIE and England took ENG. Things in France looked bleak early. My first break came when it appeared that Germany and Austria could pick up 3 units each in the first year...so i went to work on Italy and France stressing that it did not matter what they did to me because they would end up losing ground to G/A in the end anyway. This may have been the key to getting England to stab Germany. Why Derek moved on Austria i don't know.
After England stabbed Germany, i found a friend finally. Steve wanted to work to get England out of the game and i was more than happy to do so. England was still a participant at this time and i wanted to attack Germany while he attacked Russia...that was the plan moving ahead....i could have gone in any direction at that point. Italy became very involved with Austria and the Turk was moving fleets so i decided that i could attack both England and Germany. It was a tough call but my objective for taking MUN and BER in the same turn was to get those German armies off the board. Those were the pieced that could challenge me...the east was muddled and England had a lot of fleets so i took out my competition. I thought at that point i was guaranteed a piece of a draw...i only needed to get to 12 centers to guarantee a WB win.
Will, down there in Turkey stuck to Russia like a good ally but there were several times where Turkey had better options to hook up with Austria....i was really surprised to see that not happen. There was a period of chaos in the east where G/A/T were not communicating very well and Russia just walked back into his home centers without a fight...that was very concerning to me and ultimately put Russia right back in the game. Dan they had you down but could not close the deal! Italy was in a position to attack Russia and i told him that i if he made some ground in Russia and i started to lose ground in the north i would help him him win the game outright.....it basically would have ended in the revers of what happened here....i would have thrown everything at Russia and let Italy suck up the open centers, but Italy decided to stab.
Just after my stab, England disappeared...that was a help to me some...less than what most of you might think because him not being there let Russia off the hook in the north....so i had no choice to get my fleets up there to replace what England was losing.
I think i only made one mistake in the game. When Italy took Austria out and put two fleets on the board and i added one to MAR in the same winter.....i should have and actually considered breaking our DMZ agreement and moved to occupy WME....he got the jump on my with his stab using those fleets and then we jammed up the Med.
Skipping ahead to the end game, when only G/F/R/I were left, Russia was starting to build the north and it was only a matter of time before he broke me. I talked to Germany what, maybe 3 times a day to flip him to my side...telling him that he was becoming less and less important to Russia/Italy. I had Italy stopped but i could not hold off Russia without Germany...and Germany was ready to bail and try to save his own skin and i had requested that he send BER back to MUN as i left MUN.....but instead he supported Russia to MUN. That was really the end of my chances to draw right there....that allowed Italy to break into MAR or SPA then crush my line.
I could have still fought Russia but the Italian pressure was using too many units and Derek no longer cared to get a high finish....he was resolved to let Russia win and there was nothing that anyone could have done about it....that was just a shame....we all played pretty well and it came down to one person not giving their best effort....Derek, i do not care what your reason were, there is no excuse for not playing for the best finish you can get. I can say that i played my best because coming into the game the best i thought i could do was not be eliminated and that is what i got. You never had a chance to solo this game after you stabbed me, and that was when you just gave up and decided that survival points we're just fine with you. I read your EOG and your desire for a high finish contradicts your actions on the board. When you realized you could not win you said to hell with everyone else and removed Russia's only obstacle by continuing your attacks on me. The really sad thing is that you think your are honorable and valiant for giving up.
Steve, it was an absolute pleasure playing with you. England dropping out did cost you dearly in the long run. It is possible that the two of you would have patched things up and come back at me. By the way you finally sold me....sorry it took me so long to come around.
Will, the NMR's hurt! Especially on a board like that. You played pretty well but the missing moves caught up with you.
Andrew, great start...why the Turk did not hook up with you is just a puzzling to me as it was to you. Things would have been LOT different if the two of you got working together. I do hope we meet again.
Dan, congrats. Not much more to say we haven't already said.
Derek, well i can say that i expected more than you were able to deliver. I know all of this sounds like sour grapes and really i am not upset at losing....it happens....but how it happened is really shameful.
I really did enjoy the game, it was a wonderful challenge and really pushed my boundaries. I hope that anyone that looks at the game and pieces together the events can see that it was not France that gave the game away.
Tim[Reply] |
| dc418 Game over Italian EOG - ddz999cat23 (Jun 21, 2012, 11:01 am) |
Good EOG Derek. Glad you went first. I'll save the "would Dan have followed through?" answer for my EOG as well as other unexpected nuances to this deal. But definitely the solo on the other board truly changed the entire dynamic of this game. Part of the whole WB chaos!
From: Derek eyler <derekthefeared2(at)yahoo.com>
To: GM Christine <dawench(at)hotmail.com>; "odvaha(at)aol.com" <odvaha(at)aol.com>; "wtfleming(at)msn.com" <wtfleming(at)msn.com>;
"timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com" <timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com>; "blitz(at)diplomaticcorp.com" <blitz(at)diplomaticcorp.com>; "landru428(at)aol.com" <landru428(at)aol.com>; "tmssteve(at)gmail.com" <tmssteve(at)gmail.com>; "kielmarch(at)hotmail.com" <kielmarch(at)hotmail.com>; "mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net" <mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net>; Dan Dzikowicz <ddz999cat23(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2012 9:48 AM
Subject: dc418 Game over Italian EOG
Alright,
Well I'll go first with my EOG as I expect many of you are interested in understanding my actions especially towards the end of the game.
At the beginning of the game I started off game in a ton of alliances and sub alliances of various strength. Fuzzy on all the details but I think I was in a EIG, EFI, AIG, IR, IT, AIT, EF maybe some others
AIT was very successful in year one. Although I think the suballiance of AG gets more of the credit there. Although also could be said they were potentially too successful. Although I feel the need to tip my hat to Autria for his year one play against Dan. Obviously Dan recovered masterfully but definitely a minor work of art performed there.
For obvious reasons maintaining all of those alliances was impossible. Although I did remain friendly with almost every power on the board for most of the game.
EIG was also working pretty well after year one but a huge turning point that dramatically changed my strategy was when England switched sides and stopped fighting France. My plan which was to attack France basically became an impossibility.
I spent a few years carefully maintaining relationships and waiting for the right opportunity. Balancing timing and relationships was a key strategy to my game the entire time. I moved against Austria because I needed somewhere to grow and Austria seemed to only be interested in his own ambitions.
I continued to grow and was feeling very good about my chances after Russia turned against Turkey.
Another key point in the game was when Germany and France turning on England. Possibly I'm overselling my involvement but I would like to think I helped bring them together and establish their trust to help do this.
England abandoning the game was a dissapointment that certainly helped France and changed things. It would have been interesting to see how the game would have progressed is England hadn't left.
Also want to take this opportunity to thank Austria, Germany, and despite his method fighting to the end, Turkey for sticking around and fighting to the end.
Then to me the most shocking moves of the game occured when Turkey disbanded his army and built southern fleets. Turkey if you get a chance to write a EOG I'd love to know what I did, or Dan did to convince you to make that move.
From that point on my relationship with Turkey went from him not likely me, but likely Austria and Russia less to all out suicidal war against me.
Around this point Russia and I, as well as Germany finally decided we needed to start working together against France. Although I think it was definitely me who dragged me feat on this one.
But we did it in time to stop France from being able to hold the stalemate lines.
The slow battle proceeded but eventually we would break through because we had the advantage. France took the strategy of going all out defense against me while being less protective of his borders against Russia. The goal was to force me to turn on Russia but obiviously it didn't play out how he felt it should have.
There are few reasons for this. First for a long time I was opporating under the assumption that if Tim couldn't get his win he would help me get a solo. I knew at best it was a half truth but I did hold out the thought that if I played the politics right I could make it happen. (Tim also continually told me he would help me solo)
Part of my strategy of working with Russia instead of continuing with France was that Russia could only win allied with me and not allied with France so I didn't have to worry about him switching sides. Of course this dynamic changed when Dan needed a solo to win.
The key item that may explain my actions toward the end of the game was a deal that I offered Dan a few years ago. With the realization that unless one of us helped the other one this game was doomed to be a 3 way I offered Dan an agreement that would give each of us a chance to win the overall tournament.
With the understanding that we both wanted to place high, but that what we each truly wanted was the tournament championship we agree to randomly determine on us and the other one would help them win. Dan took some time to think and agreed he was on board.
Certainly some complaints out the method could be made but our reasoning
It gave us the opportunity to win the tournament
Certainly we had no garentee that either of us would follow through with the deal
So Dan and I played odds and evens with our orders last fall and he won (hold 0, move 1). I honored my agreement to allow him to solo. Would Dan have done the same if I had won? Not sure, I would like to think that he would have, but I don't know. I decided to honor my side of the agreement.
So there you have it. Certainly one of the more dynamic and interesting diplomacy games I have ever played dispite the NMR's and England leaving.
Congrats on the tournament victory Dan! Sorry for the complications Tim, I really did enjoy working with you and wouldn't have had anything against you winning the tournament, but I played the whole game (until honoring my agreement) to give myself the best chance of the total tournament victory. That involved not working with you at the end.
Thank you very much for the well run game Christine!
Good game to all!
--- On Thu, 6/21/12, Dan Dzikowicz <ddz999cat23(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Dan Dzikowicz <ddz999cat23(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: dc418 Game over
To: "GM Christine" <dawench(at)hotmail.com>, "odvaha(at)aol.com" <odvaha(at)aol.com>, "wtfleming(at)msn.com" <wtfleming(at)msn.com>, "timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com" <timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com>, "derekthefeared2(at)yahoo.com" <derekthefeared2(at)yahoo.com>, "blitz(at)diplomaticcorp.com" <blitz(at)diplomaticcorp.com>, "landru428(at)aol.com" <landru428(at)aol.com>, "tmssteve(at)gmail.com" <tmssteve(at)gmail.com>, "kielmarch(at)hotmail.com" <kielmarch(at)hotmail.com>, "mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net" <mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net>
Date: Thursday, June 21, 2012, 9:55 AM
Good game all, and MANY thanks Christine. Yes, I believe my EOG will shed some light, from my single perspective. I'll try to get that together tonight or tomorrow. Quite interested to hear other people's takes too.
Thanks all!
Dan
From: GM Christine <dawench(at)hotmail.com>
To: odvaha(at)aol.com; wtfleming(at)msn.com; timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com; derekthefeared2(at)yahoo.com; ddz999cat23(at)yahoo.com; blitz(at)diplomaticcorp.com; landru428(at)aol.com; tmssteve(at)gmail.com; kielmarch(at)hotmail.com; mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2012 8:27 AM
Subject: dc418 Game over
Board:
Austria - landru428 - Andrew Cassese - eliminated F '05
England - RickHunter - Mike Brady - eliminated '07
France - fencertim -Timothy Crosby
Germany - stevec - Steve Cooley
Italy - derekthefeared2 -Derek Eiler
Russia - ddz999cat23 - Daniel Dzikowicz - Solo '11
Turkey - MrSmiley - Will Fleming - eliminted '08
GM Note:
A Russian Solo has been achieved, congratulations Dan.
Thank you all for playing, I hope you will submit EOGs. Some moves in this game were mystifying!
Final Supply Center Count:
Austria: 0
England: 0
France: 5
Germany: 1
Italy: 10
Russia: 18
Turkey: 0
Map:
http://home.comcast.net/~dawench/418/41811EG.gif
Orders and
Results:
France:
F Brest - English Channel
A Burgundy Supports A Spain - Marseilles
F English Channel - North Sea
A Gascony Supports F Portugal - Spain(sc)
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean - North Atlantic Ocean
A Munich - Kiel (*Dislodged*)
F North Atlantic Ocean - Norwegian Sea
F Portugal - Spain(sc) (*Bounce*)
F Skagerrak Supports F English Channel - North Sea
A Spain - Marseilles
Germany:
A Ruhr - Belgium
Italy:
A Bohemia - Munich (*Fails*)
A Bulgaria - Rumania (*Bounce*)
A Greece - Bulgaria (*Bounce*)
F Gulf of Lyon Supports F Western Mediterranean - Spain(sc)
F North Africa - Mid-Atlantic Ocean
A Piedmont - Marseilles (*Fails*)
A Tyrolia - Piedmont (*Fails*)
F Tyrrhenian Sea - Western Mediterranean (*Fails*)
F Western Mediterranean - Spain(sc) (*Bounce*)
Russia:
A Armenia Hold
F Baltic Sea - Denmark
A Berlin Supports A Silesia - Munich
A Constantinople -
Bulgaria (*Bounce*)
A Kiel Supports A Silesia - Munich
A Liverpool Hold
F London Hold
F North Sea - Holland
F Norway - Sweden
A Sevastopol - Rumania (*Bounce*)
A Silesia - Munich
Retreat Due:
French A Munich can retreat to Ruhr or OTB.
------------------------
Speed is the essence of war. Take advantage of the enemy's unpreparedness; travel by unexpected routes and strike him where he has taken no precautions.
Sun Tzu[Reply] |
| dc418 Game over Italian EOG - derekthefeared2 (Jun 21, 2012, 9:48 am) |
Alright,
Well I'll go first with my EOG as I expect many of you are interested in understanding my actions especially towards the end of the game.
At the beginning of the game I started off game in a ton of alliances and sub alliances of various strength. Fuzzy on all the details but I think I was in a EIG, EFI, AIG, IR, IT, AIT, EF maybe some others
AIT was very successful in year one. Although I think the suballiance of AG gets more of the credit there. Although also could be said they were potentially too successful. Although I feel the need to tip my hat to Autria for his year one play against Dan. Obviously Dan recovered masterfully but definitely a minor work of art performed there.
For obvious reasons maintaining all of those alliances was impossible. Although I did remain friendly with almost every power on the board for most of the game.
EIG was also working pretty well after year one but a huge turning point that dramatically changed my strategy was when England switched sides and stopped fighting France. My plan which was to attack France basically became an impossibility.
I spent a few years carefully maintaining relationships and waiting for the right opportunity. Balancing timing and relationships was a key strategy to my game the entire time. I moved against Austria because I needed somewhere to grow and Austria seemed to only be interested in his own ambitions.
I continued to grow and was feeling very good about my chances after Russia turned against Turkey.
Another key point in the game was when Germany and France turning on England. Possibly I'm overselling my involvement but I would like to think I helped bring them together and establish their trust to help do this.
England abandoning the game was a dissapointment that certainly helped France and changed things. It would have been interesting to see how the game would have progressed is England hadn't left.
Also want to take this opportunity to thank Austria, Germany, and despite his method fighting to the end, Turkey for sticking around and fighting to the end.
Then to me the most shocking moves of the game occured when Turkey disbanded his army and built southern fleets. Turkey if you get a chance to write a EOG I'd love to know what I did, or Dan did to convince you to make that move.
From that point on my relationship with Turkey went from him not likely me, but likely Austria and Russia less to all out suicidal war against me.
Around this point Russia and I, as well as Germany finally decided we needed to start working together against France. Although I think it was definitely me who dragged me feat on this one.
But we did it in time to stop France from being able to hold the stalemate lines.
The slow battle proceeded but eventually we would break through because we had the advantage. France took the strategy of going all out defense against me while being less protective of his borders against Russia. The goal was to force me to turn on Russia but obiviously it didn't play out how he felt it should have.
There are few reasons for this. First for a long time I was opporating under the assumption that if Tim couldn't get his win he would help me get a solo. I knew at best it was a half truth but I did hold out the thought that if I played the politics right I could make it happen. (Tim also continually told me he would help me solo)
Part of my strategy of working with Russia instead of continuing with France was that Russia could only win allied with me and not allied with France so I didn't have to worry about him switching sides. Of course this dynamic changed when Dan needed a solo to win.
The key item that may explain my actions toward the end of the game was a deal that I offered Dan a few years ago. With the realization that unless one of us helped the other one this game was doomed to be a 3 way I offered Dan an agreement that would give each of us a chance to win the overall tournament.
With the understanding that we both wanted to place high, but that what we each truly wanted was the tournament championship we agree to randomly determine on us and the other one would help them win. Dan took some time to think and agreed he was on board.
Certainly some complaints out the method could be made but our reasoning
It gave us the opportunity to win the tournament
Certainly we had no garentee that either of us would follow through with the deal
So Dan and I played odds and evens with our orders last fall and he won (hold 0, move 1). I honored my agreement to allow him to solo. Would Dan have done the same if I had won? Not sure, I would like to think that he would have, but I don't know. I decided to honor my side of the agreement.
So there you have it. Certainly one of the more dynamic and interesting diplomacy games I have ever played dispite the NMR's and England leaving.
Congrats on the tournament victory Dan! Sorry for the complications Tim, I really did enjoy working with you and wouldn't have had anything against you winning the tournament, but I played the whole game (until honoring my agreement) to give myself the best chance of the total tournament victory. That involved not working with you at the end.
Thank you very much for the well run game Christine!
Good game to all!
--- On Thu, 6/21/12, Dan Dzikowicz <ddz999cat23(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Dan Dzikowicz <ddz999cat23(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: dc418 Game over
To: "GM Christine" <dawench(at)hotmail.com>, "odvaha(at)aol.com" <odvaha(at)aol.com>, "wtfleming(at)msn.com" <wtfleming(at)msn.com>, "timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com" <timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com>, "derekthefeared2(at)yahoo.com" <derekthefeared2(at)yahoo.com>, "blitz(at)diplomaticcorp.com" <blitz(at)diplomaticcorp.com>, "landru428(at)aol.com" <landru428(at)aol.com>, "tmssteve(at)gmail.com" <tmssteve(at)gmail.com>, "kielmarch(at)hotmail.com" <kielmarch(at)hotmail.com>, "mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net" <mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net>
Date: Thursday, June 21, 2012, 9:55 AM
Good game all, and MANY thanks Christine. Yes, I believe my EOG will shed some light, from my single perspective. I'll try to get that together tonight or tomorrow. Quite interested to hear other people's takes too.
Thanks all!
Dan
From: GM Christine <dawench(at)hotmail.com>
To: odvaha(at)aol.com; wtfleming(at)msn.com; timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com; derekthefeared2(at)yahoo.com; ddz999cat23(at)yahoo.com; blitz(at)diplomaticcorp.com; landru428(at)aol.com; tmssteve(at)gmail.com; kielmarch(at)hotmail.com; mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2012 8:27 AM
Subject: dc418 Game over
Board:
Austria - landru428 - Andrew Cassese - eliminated F '05
England - RickHunter - Mike Brady - eliminated '07
France - fencertim -Timothy Crosby
Germany - stevec - Steve Cooley
Italy - derekthefeared2 -Derek Eiler
Russia - ddz999cat23 - Daniel Dzikowicz - Solo '11
Turkey - MrSmiley - Will Fleming - eliminted '08
GM Note:
A Russian Solo has been achieved, congratulations Dan.
Thank you all for playing, I hope you will submit EOGs. Some moves in this game were mystifying!
Final Supply Center Count:
Austria: 0
England: 0
France: 5
Germany: 1
Italy: 10
Russia: 18
Turkey: 0
Map:
http://home.comcast.net/~dawench/418/41811EG.gif
Orders and
Results:
France:
F Brest - English Channel
A Burgundy Supports A Spain - Marseilles
F English Channel - North Sea
A Gascony Supports F Portugal - Spain(sc)
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean - North Atlantic Ocean
A Munich - Kiel (*Dislodged*)
F North Atlantic Ocean - Norwegian Sea
F Portugal - Spain(sc) (*Bounce*)
F Skagerrak Supports F English Channel - North Sea
A Spain - Marseilles
Germany:
A Ruhr - Belgium
Italy:
A Bohemia - Munich (*Fails*)
A Bulgaria - Rumania (*Bounce*)
A Greece - Bulgaria (*Bounce*)
F Gulf of Lyon Supports F Western Mediterranean - Spain(sc)
F North Africa - Mid-Atlantic Ocean
A Piedmont - Marseilles (*Fails*)
A Tyrolia - Piedmont (*Fails*)
F Tyrrhenian Sea - Western Mediterranean (*Fails*)
F Western Mediterranean - Spain(sc) (*Bounce*)
Russia:
A Armenia Hold
F Baltic Sea - Denmark
A Berlin Supports A Silesia - Munich
A Constantinople -
Bulgaria (*Bounce*)
A Kiel Supports A Silesia - Munich
A Liverpool Hold
F London Hold
F North Sea - Holland
F Norway - Sweden
A Sevastopol - Rumania (*Bounce*)
A Silesia - Munich
Retreat Due:
French A Munich can retreat to Ruhr or OTB.
------------------------
Speed is the essence of war. Take advantage of the enemy's unpreparedness; travel by unexpected routes and strike him where he has taken no precautions.
Sun Tzu[Reply] |
| dc418 Game over Italian EOG (Winter Blitz) ddz999cat23 Jun 21, 11:01 am |
Good EOG Derek. Glad you went first. I'll save the "would Dan have followed through?" answer for my EOG as well as other unexpected nuances to this deal. But definitely the solo on the other board truly changed the entire dynamic of this game. Part of the whole WB chaos!
From: Derek eyler <derekthefeared2(at)yahoo.com>
To: GM Christine <dawench(at)hotmail.com>; "odvaha(at)aol.com" <odvaha(at)aol.com>; "wtfleming(at)msn.com" <wtfleming(at)msn.com>;
"timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com" <timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com>; "blitz(at)diplomaticcorp.com" <blitz(at)diplomaticcorp.com>; "landru428(at)aol.com" <landru428(at)aol.com>; "tmssteve(at)gmail.com" <tmssteve(at)gmail.com>; "kielmarch(at)hotmail.com" <kielmarch(at)hotmail.com>; "mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net" <mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net>; Dan Dzikowicz <ddz999cat23(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2012 9:48 AM
Subject: dc418 Game over Italian EOG
Alright,
Well I'll go first with my EOG as I expect many of you are interested in understanding my actions especially towards the end of the game.
At the beginning of the game I started off game in a ton of alliances and sub alliances of various strength. Fuzzy on all the details but I think I was in a EIG, EFI, AIG, IR, IT, AIT, EF maybe some others
AIT was very successful in year one. Although I think the suballiance of AG gets more of the credit there. Although also could be said they were potentially too successful. Although I feel the need to tip my hat to Autria for his year one play against Dan. Obviously Dan recovered masterfully but definitely a minor work of art performed there.
For obvious reasons maintaining all of those alliances was impossible. Although I did remain friendly with almost every power on the board for most of the game.
EIG was also working pretty well after year one but a huge turning point that dramatically changed my strategy was when England switched sides and stopped fighting France. My plan which was to attack France basically became an impossibility.
I spent a few years carefully maintaining relationships and waiting for the right opportunity. Balancing timing and relationships was a key strategy to my game the entire time. I moved against Austria because I needed somewhere to grow and Austria seemed to only be interested in his own ambitions.
I continued to grow and was feeling very good about my chances after Russia turned against Turkey.
Another key point in the game was when Germany and France turning on England. Possibly I'm overselling my involvement but I would like to think I helped bring them together and establish their trust to help do this.
England abandoning the game was a dissapointment that certainly helped France and changed things. It would have been interesting to see how the game would have progressed is England hadn't left.
Also want to take this opportunity to thank Austria, Germany, and despite his method fighting to the end, Turkey for sticking around and fighting to the end.
Then to me the most shocking moves of the game occured when Turkey disbanded his army and built southern fleets. Turkey if you get a chance to write a EOG I'd love to know what I did, or Dan did to convince you to make that move.
From that point on my relationship with Turkey went from him not likely me, but likely Austria and Russia less to all out suicidal war against me.
Around this point Russia and I, as well as Germany finally decided we needed to start working together against France. Although I think it was definitely me who dragged me feat on this one.
But we did it in time to stop France from being able to hold the stalemate lines.
The slow battle proceeded but eventually we would break through because we had the advantage. France took the strategy of going all out defense against me while being less protective of his borders against Russia. The goal was to force me to turn on Russia but obiviously it didn't play out how he felt it should have.
There are few reasons for this. First for a long time I was opporating under the assumption that if Tim couldn't get his win he would help me get a solo. I knew at best it was a half truth but I did hold out the thought that if I played the politics right I could make it happen. (Tim also continually told me he would help me solo)
Part of my strategy of working with Russia instead of continuing with France was that Russia could only win allied with me and not allied with France so I didn't have to worry about him switching sides. Of course this dynamic changed when Dan needed a solo to win.
The key item that may explain my actions toward the end of the game was a deal that I offered Dan a few years ago. With the realization that unless one of us helped the other one this game was doomed to be a 3 way I offered Dan an agreement that would give each of us a chance to win the overall tournament.
With the understanding that we both wanted to place high, but that what we each truly wanted was the tournament championship we agree to randomly determine on us and the other one would help them win. Dan took some time to think and agreed he was on board.
Certainly some complaints out the method could be made but our reasoning
It gave us the opportunity to win the tournament
Certainly we had no garentee that either of us would follow through with the deal
So Dan and I played odds and evens with our orders last fall and he won (hold 0, move 1). I honored my agreement to allow him to solo. Would Dan have done the same if I had won? Not sure, I would like to think that he would have, but I don't know. I decided to honor my side of the agreement.
So there you have it. Certainly one of the more dynamic and interesting diplomacy games I have ever played dispite the NMR's and England leaving.
Congrats on the tournament victory Dan! Sorry for the complications Tim, I really did enjoy working with you and wouldn't have had anything against you winning the tournament, but I played the whole game (until honoring my agreement) to give myself the best chance of the total tournament victory. That involved not working with you at the end.
Thank you very much for the well run game Christine!
Good game to all!
--- On Thu, 6/21/12, Dan Dzikowicz <ddz999cat23(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Dan Dzikowicz <ddz999cat23(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: dc418 Game over
To: "GM Christine" <dawench(at)hotmail.com>, "odvaha(at)aol.com" <odvaha(at)aol.com>, "wtfleming(at)msn.com" <wtfleming(at)msn.com>, "timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com" <timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com>, "derekthefeared2(at)yahoo.com" <derekthefeared2(at)yahoo.com>, "blitz(at)diplomaticcorp.com" <blitz(at)diplomaticcorp.com>, "landru428(at)aol.com" <landru428(at)aol.com>, "tmssteve(at)gmail.com" <tmssteve(at)gmail.com>, "kielmarch(at)hotmail.com" <kielmarch(at)hotmail.com>, "mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net" <mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net>
Date: Thursday, June 21, 2012, 9:55 AM
Good game all, and MANY thanks Christine. Yes, I believe my EOG will shed some light, from my single perspective. I'll try to get that together tonight or tomorrow. Quite interested to hear other people's takes too.
Thanks all!
Dan
From: GM Christine <dawench(at)hotmail.com>
To: odvaha(at)aol.com; wtfleming(at)msn.com; timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com; derekthefeared2(at)yahoo.com; ddz999cat23(at)yahoo.com; blitz(at)diplomaticcorp.com; landru428(at)aol.com; tmssteve(at)gmail.com; kielmarch(at)hotmail.com; mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2012 8:27 AM
Subject: dc418 Game over
Board:
Austria - landru428 - Andrew Cassese - eliminated F '05
England - RickHunter - Mike Brady - eliminated '07
France - fencertim -Timothy Crosby
Germany - stevec - Steve Cooley
Italy - derekthefeared2 -Derek Eiler
Russia - ddz999cat23 - Daniel Dzikowicz - Solo '11
Turkey - MrSmiley - Will Fleming - eliminted '08
GM Note:
A Russian Solo has been achieved, congratulations Dan.
Thank you all for playing, I hope you will submit EOGs. Some moves in this game were mystifying!
Final Supply Center Count:
Austria: 0
England: 0
France: 5
Germany: 1
Italy: 10
Russia: 18
Turkey: 0
Map:
http://home.comcast.net/~dawench/418/41811EG.gif
Orders and
Results:
France:
F Brest - English Channel
A Burgundy Supports A Spain - Marseilles
F English Channel - North Sea
A Gascony Supports F Portugal - Spain(sc)
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean - North Atlantic Ocean
A Munich - Kiel (*Dislodged*)
F North Atlantic Ocean - Norwegian Sea
F Portugal - Spain(sc) (*Bounce*)
F Skagerrak Supports F English Channel - North Sea
A Spain - Marseilles
Germany:
A Ruhr - Belgium
Italy:
A Bohemia - Munich (*Fails*)
A Bulgaria - Rumania (*Bounce*)
A Greece - Bulgaria (*Bounce*)
F Gulf of Lyon Supports F Western Mediterranean - Spain(sc)
F North Africa - Mid-Atlantic Ocean
A Piedmont - Marseilles (*Fails*)
A Tyrolia - Piedmont (*Fails*)
F Tyrrhenian Sea - Western Mediterranean (*Fails*)
F Western Mediterranean - Spain(sc) (*Bounce*)
Russia:
A Armenia Hold
F Baltic Sea - Denmark
A Berlin Supports A Silesia - Munich
A Constantinople -
Bulgaria (*Bounce*)
A Kiel Supports A Silesia - Munich
A Liverpool Hold
F London Hold
F North Sea - Holland
F Norway - Sweden
A Sevastopol - Rumania (*Bounce*)
A Silesia - Munich
Retreat Due:
French A Munich can retreat to Ruhr or OTB.
------------------------
Speed is the essence of war. Take advantage of the enemy's unpreparedness; travel by unexpected routes and strike him where he has taken no precautions.
Sun Tzu |
| dc418 Game over - ddz999cat23 (Jun 21, 2012, 8:55 am) |
Good game all, and MANY thanks Christine. Yes, I believe my EOG will shed some light, from my single perspective. I'll try to get that together tonight or tomorrow. Quite interested to hear other people's takes too.
Thanks all!Dan
From: GM Christine <dawench(at)hotmail.com>
To: odvaha(at)aol.com; wtfleming(at)msn.com; timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com; derekthefeared2(at)yahoo.com; ddz999cat23(at)yahoo.com;
blitz(at)diplomaticcorp.com; landru428(at)aol.com; tmssteve(at)gmail.com; kielmarch(at)hotmail.com; mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2012 8:27 AM
Subject: dc418 Game over
Board:
Austria - landru428 - Andrew Cassese - eliminated F '05
England - RickHunter - Mike Brady - eliminated '07
France - fencertim -Timothy Crosby
Germany - stevec - Steve Cooley
Italy - derekthefeared2 -Derek Eiler
Russia - ddz999cat23 - Daniel Dzikowicz - Solo '11
Turkey - MrSmiley - Will Fleming - eliminted '08
GM Note:
A Russian Solo has been achieved, congratulations Dan.
Thank you all for playing, I hope you will submit EOGs. Some moves in this game were mystifying!
Final Supply Center Count:
Austria: 0
England: 0
France: 5
Germany: 1
Italy: 10
Russia: 18
Turkey: 0
Map:
http://home.comcast.net/~dawench/418/41811EG.gif
Orders and Results:
France:
F Brest - English Channel
A Burgundy Supports A Spain - Marseilles
F English Channel - North Sea
A Gascony Supports F Portugal - Spain(sc)
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean - North Atlantic Ocean
A Munich - Kiel (*Dislodged*)
F North Atlantic Ocean - Norwegian Sea
F Portugal - Spain(sc) (*Bounce*)
F Skagerrak Supports F English Channel - North Sea
A Spain - Marseilles
Germany:
A Ruhr - Belgium
Italy:
A Bohemia - Munich (*Fails*)
A Bulgaria - Rumania (*Bounce*)
A Greece - Bulgaria (*Bounce*)
F Gulf of Lyon Supports F Western Mediterranean - Spain(sc)
F North Africa - Mid-Atlantic Ocean
A Piedmont - Marseilles (*Fails*)
A Tyrolia - Piedmont (*Fails*)
F Tyrrhenian Sea - Western Mediterranean (*Fails*)
F Western Mediterranean - Spain(sc) (*Bounce*)
Russia:
A Armenia Hold
F Baltic Sea - Denmark
A Berlin Supports A Silesia - Munich
A Constantinople - Bulgaria (*Bounce*)
A
Kiel Supports A Silesia - Munich
A Liverpool Hold
F London Hold
F North Sea - Holland
F Norway - Sweden
A Sevastopol - Rumania (*Bounce*)
A Silesia - Munich
Retreat Due:
French A Munich can retreat to Ruhr or OTB.
------------------------
Speed is the essence of war. Take advantage
of the enemy's unpreparedness; travel by
unexpected routes and strike him where he
has taken no precautions.
Sun
Tzu[Reply] |
| dc418 Game over - fencertim (Jun 21, 2012, 8:44 am) |
Mystifying pretty much sums this up....
On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 9:27 AM, GM Christine <dawench(at)hotmail.com> wrote:
Board:
Austria - landru428 - Andrew Cassese - eliminated F '05
England - RickHunter - Mike Brady - eliminated '07
France - fencertim -Timothy Crosby
Germany - stevec - Steve Cooley
Italy - derekthefeared2 -Derek Eiler
Russia - ddz999cat23 - Daniel Dzikowicz - Solo '11
Turkey - MrSmiley - Will Fleming - eliminted '08
GM Note:
A Russian Solo has been achieved, congratulations Dan.
Thank you all for playing, I hope you will submit EOGs. Some moves in this game were mystifying!
Final Supply Center Count:
Austria: 0
England: 0
France: 5
Germany: 1
Italy: 10
Russia: 18
Turkey: 0
Map:
http://home.comcast.net/~dawench/418/41811EG.gif
Orders and Results:
France:
F Brest - English Channel
A Burgundy Supports A Spain - Marseilles
F English Channel - North Sea
A Gascony Supports F Portugal - Spain(sc)
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean - North Atlantic Ocean
A Munich - Kiel (*Dislodged*)
F North Atlantic Ocean - Norwegian Sea
F Portugal - Spain(sc) (*Bounce*)
F Skagerrak Supports F English Channel - North Sea
A Spain - Marseilles
Germany:
A Ruhr - Belgium
Italy:
A Bohemia - Munich (*Fails*)
A Bulgaria - Rumania (*Bounce*)
A Greece - Bulgaria (*Bounce*)
F Gulf of Lyon Supports F Western Mediterranean - Spain(sc)
F North Africa - Mid-Atlantic Ocean
A Piedmont - Marseilles (*Fails*)
A Tyrolia - Piedmont (*Fails*)
F Tyrrhenian Sea - Western Mediterranean (*Fails*)
F Western Mediterranean - Spain(sc) (*Bounce*)
Russia:
A Armenia Hold
F Baltic Sea - Denmark
A Berlin Supports A Silesia - Munich
A Constantinople - Bulgaria (*Bounce*)
A Kiel Supports A Silesia - Munich
A Liverpool Hold
F London Hold
F North Sea - Holland
F Norway - Sweden
A Sevastopol - Rumania (*Bounce*)
A Silesia - Munich
Retreat Due:
French A Munich can retreat to Ruhr or OTB.
------------------------
Speed is the essence of war. Take advantage
of the enemy's unpreparedness; travel by
unexpected routes and strike him where he
has taken no precautions.
Sun
Tzu[Reply] |
| DC406: Spring 08 FInal - laxrulz777 (Jun 21, 2012, 8:40 am) |
Maps. We don't need no stinking maps 
On Jun 21, 2012 9:35 AM, "Mike Hoffman" <mrh(at)panix.com> wrote:
With Maps and DPW file this time.Mike
---------
"Sit Long, Talk Much, Laugh Often" -- anon
"Shared Pain is lessened, Shared Joy is increased" --- Spider Robinson
On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 7:33 AM, Mike Hoffman <mrh(at)panix.com> wrote:
Hi All,After a few trips down the Rabbit Hole, our game is back on track.
Deadline for Fall 08 is Wednesday, June 27 (at) 5PM MST.
Retreats for Spring 08:
----------------------------------
Dwarves: A Cave of Ordeals - Tymwyvenne
Knights: F CELESTIAL DELTA - MIST MARSH
Nomads: A Dragons Teeth Mtns - Knurremurre
F CRYSTAL LAKE - Arctic Barrens
Pirates: A The High Way - Far Far Away
Trolls: F Grissel - TROG BOG
Thanks,Mike
---------
"Sit Long, Talk Much, Laugh Often" -- anon
"Shared Pain is lessened, Shared Joy is increased" --- Spider Robinson[Reply] |
| DC406: Spring 08 FInal - offdisc (Jun 21, 2012, 8:35 am) |
With Maps and DPW file this time.Mike
---------
"Sit Long, Talk Much, Laugh Often" -- anon
"Shared Pain is lessened, Shared Joy is increased" --- Spider Robinson
On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 7:33 AM, Mike Hoffman <mrh(at)panix.com> wrote:
Hi All,After a few trips down the Rabbit Hole, our game is back on track.
Deadline for Fall 08 is Wednesday, June 27 (at) 5PM MST.
Retreats for Spring 08:
----------------------------------
Dwarves: A Cave of Ordeals - Tymwyvenne
Knights: F CELESTIAL DELTA - MIST MARSH
Nomads: A Dragons Teeth Mtns - Knurremurre
F CRYSTAL LAKE - Arctic Barrens
Pirates: A The High Way - Far Far Away
Trolls: F Grissel - TROG BOG
Thanks,Mike
---------
"Sit Long, Talk Much, Laugh Often" -- anon
"Shared Pain is lessened, Shared Joy is increased" --- Spider Robinson[Reply] |
| DC406: Spring 08 FInal - offdisc (Jun 21, 2012, 8:33 am) |
Hi All,After a few trips down the Rabbit Hole, our game is back on track.
Deadline for Fall 08 is Wednesday, June 27 (at) 5PM MST.
Retreats for Spring 08:
----------------------------------
Dwarves: A Cave of Ordeals - Tymwyvenne
Knights: F CELESTIAL DELTA - MIST MARSH
Nomads: A Dragons Teeth Mtns - Knurremurre
F CRYSTAL LAKE - Arctic Barrens
Pirates: A The High Way - Far Far Away
Trolls: F Grissel - TROG BOG
Thanks,Mike
---------
"Sit Long, Talk Much, Laugh Often" -- anon
"Shared Pain is lessened, Shared Joy is increased" --- Spider Robinson[Reply] |
| DC406: Spring 08 FInal (dc406) offdisc Jun 21, 08:35 am |
With Maps and DPW file this time.Mike
---------
"Sit Long, Talk Much, Laugh Often" -- anon
"Shared Pain is lessened, Shared Joy is increased" --- Spider Robinson
On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 7:33 AM, Mike Hoffman <mrh(at)panix.com> wrote:
Hi All,After a few trips down the Rabbit Hole, our game is back on track.
Deadline for Fall 08 is Wednesday, June 27 (at) 5PM MST.
Retreats for Spring 08:
----------------------------------
Dwarves: A Cave of Ordeals - Tymwyvenne
Knights: F CELESTIAL DELTA - MIST MARSH
Nomads: A Dragons Teeth Mtns - Knurremurre
F CRYSTAL LAKE - Arctic Barrens
Pirates: A The High Way - Far Far Away
Trolls: F Grissel - TROG BOG
Thanks,Mike
---------
"Sit Long, Talk Much, Laugh Often" -- anon
"Shared Pain is lessened, Shared Joy is increased" --- Spider Robinson |
| DC406: Spring 08 FInal (dc406) laxrulz777 Jun 21, 08:40 am |
Maps. We don't need no stinking maps
On Jun 21, 2012 9:35 AM, "Mike Hoffman" <mrh(at)panix.com> wrote:
With Maps and DPW file this time.Mike
---------
"Sit Long, Talk Much, Laugh Often" -- anon
"Shared Pain is lessened, Shared Joy is increased" --- Spider Robinson
On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 7:33 AM, Mike Hoffman <mrh(at)panix.com> wrote:
Hi All,After a few trips down the Rabbit Hole, our game is back on track.
Deadline for Fall 08 is Wednesday, June 27 (at) 5PM MST.
Retreats for Spring 08:
----------------------------------
Dwarves: A Cave of Ordeals - Tymwyvenne
Knights: F CELESTIAL DELTA - MIST MARSH
Nomads: A Dragons Teeth Mtns - Knurremurre
F CRYSTAL LAKE - Arctic Barrens
Pirates: A The High Way - Far Far Away
Trolls: F Grissel - TROG BOG
Thanks,Mike
---------
"Sit Long, Talk Much, Laugh Often" -- anon
"Shared Pain is lessened, Shared Joy is increased" --- Spider Robinson |
| DC406: Spring 08 FInal (dc406) DancingQueen Jun 25, 07:37 am |
Hello all,
I'm back from helping my mother return home after lung surgery -- she
is doing as well as can be expected, many thanks to all who expressed
their concern.
I'll be replying to your emails (or initiating email of my own) as
soon as I can.
Thank you all for your patience, and sorry for holding things up.
Chris |
| dc418 Game over - notasb (Jun 21, 2012, 8:27 am) |
Board:
Austria - landru428 - Andrew Cassese - eliminated F '05
England - RickHunter - Mike Brady - eliminated '07
France - fencertim -Timothy Crosby
Germany - stevec - Steve Cooley
Italy - derekthefeared2 -Derek Eiler
Russia - ddz999cat23 - Daniel Dzikowicz - Solo '11
Turkey - MrSmiley - Will Fleming - eliminted '08
GM Note:
A Russian Solo has been achieved, congratulations Dan.
Thank you all for playing, I hope you will submit EOGs. Some moves in this game were mystifying!
Final Supply Center Count:
Austria: 0
England: 0
France: 5
Germany: 1
Italy: 10
Russia: 18
Turkey: 0
Map:
http://home.comcast.net/~dawench/418/41811EG.gif
Orders and Results:
France:
F Brest - English Channel
A Burgundy Supports A Spain - Marseilles
F English Channel - North Sea
A Gascony Supports F Portugal - Spain(sc)
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean - North Atlantic Ocean
A Munich - Kiel (*Dislodged*)
F North Atlantic Ocean - Norwegian Sea
F Portugal - Spain(sc) (*Bounce*)
F Skagerrak Supports F English Channel - North Sea
A Spain - Marseilles
Germany:
A Ruhr - Belgium
Italy:
A Bohemia - Munich (*Fails*)
A Bulgaria - Rumania (*Bounce*)
A Greece - Bulgaria (*Bounce*)
F Gulf of Lyon Supports F Western Mediterranean - Spain(sc)
F North Africa - Mid-Atlantic Ocean
A Piedmont - Marseilles (*Fails*)
A Tyrolia - Piedmont (*Fails*)
F Tyrrhenian Sea - Western Mediterranean (*Fails*)
F Western Mediterranean - Spain(sc) (*Bounce*)
Russia:
A Armenia Hold
F Baltic Sea - Denmark
A Berlin Supports A Silesia - Munich
A Constantinople - Bulgaria (*Bounce*)
A Kiel Supports A Silesia - Munich
A Liverpool Hold
F London Hold
F North Sea - Holland
F Norway - Sweden
A Sevastopol - Rumania (*Bounce*)
A Silesia - Munich
Retreat Due:
French A Munich can retreat to Ruhr or OTB.
------------------------
Speed is the essence of war. Take advantage
of the enemy's unpreparedness; travel by
unexpected routes and strike him where he
has taken no precautions.
Sun
Tzu[Reply] |
| dc418 Game over (Winter Blitz) fencertim Jun 21, 08:44 am |
Mystifying pretty much sums this up....
On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 9:27 AM, GM Christine <dawench(at)hotmail.com> wrote:
Board:
Austria - landru428 - Andrew Cassese - eliminated F '05
England - RickHunter - Mike Brady - eliminated '07
France - fencertim -Timothy Crosby
Germany - stevec - Steve Cooley
Italy - derekthefeared2 -Derek Eiler
Russia - ddz999cat23 - Daniel Dzikowicz - Solo '11
Turkey - MrSmiley - Will Fleming - eliminted '08
GM Note:
A Russian Solo has been achieved, congratulations Dan.
Thank you all for playing, I hope you will submit EOGs. Some moves in this game were mystifying!
Final Supply Center Count:
Austria: 0
England: 0
France: 5
Germany: 1
Italy: 10
Russia: 18
Turkey: 0
Map:
http://home.comcast.net/~dawench/418/41811EG.gif
Orders and Results:
France:
F Brest - English Channel
A Burgundy Supports A Spain - Marseilles
F English Channel - North Sea
A Gascony Supports F Portugal - Spain(sc)
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean - North Atlantic Ocean
A Munich - Kiel (*Dislodged*)
F North Atlantic Ocean - Norwegian Sea
F Portugal - Spain(sc) (*Bounce*)
F Skagerrak Supports F English Channel - North Sea
A Spain - Marseilles
Germany:
A Ruhr - Belgium
Italy:
A Bohemia - Munich (*Fails*)
A Bulgaria - Rumania (*Bounce*)
A Greece - Bulgaria (*Bounce*)
F Gulf of Lyon Supports F Western Mediterranean - Spain(sc)
F North Africa - Mid-Atlantic Ocean
A Piedmont - Marseilles (*Fails*)
A Tyrolia - Piedmont (*Fails*)
F Tyrrhenian Sea - Western Mediterranean (*Fails*)
F Western Mediterranean - Spain(sc) (*Bounce*)
Russia:
A Armenia Hold
F Baltic Sea - Denmark
A Berlin Supports A Silesia - Munich
A Constantinople - Bulgaria (*Bounce*)
A Kiel Supports A Silesia - Munich
A Liverpool Hold
F London Hold
F North Sea - Holland
F Norway - Sweden
A Sevastopol - Rumania (*Bounce*)
A Silesia - Munich
Retreat Due:
French A Munich can retreat to Ruhr or OTB.
------------------------
Speed is the essence of war. Take advantage
of the enemy's unpreparedness; travel by
unexpected routes and strike him where he
has taken no precautions.
Sun
Tzu |
| dc418 Game over (Winter Blitz) ddz999cat23 Jun 21, 08:55 am |
Good game all, and MANY thanks Christine. Yes, I believe my EOG will shed some light, from my single perspective. I'll try to get that together tonight or tomorrow. Quite interested to hear other people's takes too.
Thanks all!Dan
From: GM Christine <dawench(at)hotmail.com>
To: odvaha(at)aol.com; wtfleming(at)msn.com; timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com; derekthefeared2(at)yahoo.com; ddz999cat23(at)yahoo.com;
blitz(at)diplomaticcorp.com; landru428(at)aol.com; tmssteve(at)gmail.com; kielmarch(at)hotmail.com; mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2012 8:27 AM
Subject: dc418 Game over
Board:
Austria - landru428 - Andrew Cassese - eliminated F '05
England - RickHunter - Mike Brady - eliminated '07
France - fencertim -Timothy Crosby
Germany - stevec - Steve Cooley
Italy - derekthefeared2 -Derek Eiler
Russia - ddz999cat23 - Daniel Dzikowicz - Solo '11
Turkey - MrSmiley - Will Fleming - eliminted '08
GM Note:
A Russian Solo has been achieved, congratulations Dan.
Thank you all for playing, I hope you will submit EOGs. Some moves in this game were mystifying!
Final Supply Center Count:
Austria: 0
England: 0
France: 5
Germany: 1
Italy: 10
Russia: 18
Turkey: 0
Map:
http://home.comcast.net/~dawench/418/41811EG.gif
Orders and Results:
France:
F Brest - English Channel
A Burgundy Supports A Spain - Marseilles
F English Channel - North Sea
A Gascony Supports F Portugal - Spain(sc)
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean - North Atlantic Ocean
A Munich - Kiel (*Dislodged*)
F North Atlantic Ocean - Norwegian Sea
F Portugal - Spain(sc) (*Bounce*)
F Skagerrak Supports F English Channel - North Sea
A Spain - Marseilles
Germany:
A Ruhr - Belgium
Italy:
A Bohemia - Munich (*Fails*)
A Bulgaria - Rumania (*Bounce*)
A Greece - Bulgaria (*Bounce*)
F Gulf of Lyon Supports F Western Mediterranean - Spain(sc)
F North Africa - Mid-Atlantic Ocean
A Piedmont - Marseilles (*Fails*)
A Tyrolia - Piedmont (*Fails*)
F Tyrrhenian Sea - Western Mediterranean (*Fails*)
F Western Mediterranean - Spain(sc) (*Bounce*)
Russia:
A Armenia Hold
F Baltic Sea - Denmark
A Berlin Supports A Silesia - Munich
A Constantinople - Bulgaria (*Bounce*)
A
Kiel Supports A Silesia - Munich
A Liverpool Hold
F London Hold
F North Sea - Holland
F Norway - Sweden
A Sevastopol - Rumania (*Bounce*)
A Silesia - Munich
Retreat Due:
French A Munich can retreat to Ruhr or OTB.
------------------------
Speed is the essence of war. Take advantage
of the enemy's unpreparedness; travel by
unexpected routes and strike him where he
has taken no precautions.
Sun
Tzu |
| dc418 Game over (Winter Blitz) landru428 Jun 21, 07:53 pm |
Congrats Dan! Impressive going from 2 centers to a tourmant winning solo. I'm travelling so I'll submit a brief EOG in the next day or so basically consisting of an 'I told you so' and an expanation as to why I went kamikazi on Turkey. Thank you Christine, GG to everybody and I can't wait until next year!
Andrew |
| DC406: Spring 08 Redo Results! - laxrulz777 (Jun 21, 2012, 7:33 am) |
Wanted to let everyone know that I've had a traveling snafu and am shuttling airport to airport in the Midwest (thanks to, of all things, a weather problem in San Antonio) so if I haven't responded to your email or was frustratingly curt you'll cut me a little slack
On Jun 20, 2012 3:02 PM, "Mike Hoffman" <mrh(at)panix.com> wrote:
Retreats are all in, but I didn't receive the last set until after I left for work. So retreat results will be posted later tonight.
Thanks,
Mike
---------
"Sit Long, Talk Much, Laugh Often" -- anon
"Shared Pain is lessened, Shared Joy is increased" --- Spider Robinson[Reply] |
| dc394 w14 builds! - briandiffell (Jun 20, 2012, 8:52 pm) |
.com>
Message-ID:
X-Sender: diplomacy(at)diffell.net
User-Agent: RoundCube Webmail/0.3.1
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In fairness, two of them were because of destroyed units.
On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 20:25:57 -0500, "Michael Sims"
wrote:
There ya have it, record-setting 8 builds in one turn.
NEXT: Spring 15 due Monday! 6/25, 3pm Central.
Dwarves:
Build waived
Build waived
Elves:
Remove A Waterdeep
Remove A Thirsty Desert
Remove F RAZORS EDGE
Hobbits:
Remove A Rohan
Knights:
Build F Telmar
Build F Neverpeak Mtn
Build F Grimpen Ward
Build F Arborlon
Build A Spiral Castle
Build A Ice Reach
Build A Spirit Pond
Build A Wing Hove
Pirates:
Defaults, removing F PIRATE SHOALS
Rogues:
Remove F THE MAW[Reply] |
