| dc307 ~ Orient Express - sgttodd (Nov 16, 2010, 9:51 pm) |
Deadline for Winter 1916 adjustments: Friday, November 19th (at)
2359 UTC.
The following units were dislodged:
Russian A Iran retreats to Caucasus.
Adjustments:
India: 13 Supply centers, 11 Units: Builds 2 units.
Indonesia: 0 Supply centers, 1 Unit: Removes 1 unit.
Russia: 7 Supply centers, 8 Units: Removes 1 unit.
Siberia: 20 Supply centers, 18 Units: Builds 2 units.
Ownership of supply centers:
India: Australia, Bombay, Borneo, Burma, Calcutta, Delhi, Egypt,
Java, Kunlun, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Sumatra, Thailand.
Russia: Arabia, Balkans, Iraq, Madagascar, Oman, Sevastopol,
Turkey.
Siberia: Beijing, Hokkaido, Honshu, Irkutsk, Iran, Kamchatka,
Korea, Laos, Manchuria, Moscow, Novosibirsk, Philippines, Shanghai,
St. Petersburg, Tibet, Urals, Uzbekistan, Vietnam, West Siberia,
Yakutsk.
Unit locations:
India: A Afghanistan, F Australia, A Bangladesh, F Borneo, F
Egypt, A Kunlun, A Pakistan, F Persian Gulf, F Sri Lanka, F Sumatra,
A Thailand.
Indonesia: F South Indian Ocean.
Russia: A Arabia, F Barents Sea, F Caspian Sea, A Caucasus, F
Central Indian Ocean, F Oman, A Sevastopol, F Yemen.
Siberia: F Arctic Sea, F Bay of Bengal, A Cambodia, F East China
Sea, F Eastern Indian Ocean, A Iran, F Jawan Sea, A Kazakhstan, A
Laos, A Moscow, A Novosibirsk, F South China Sea, A St. Petersburg,
F Thai Sea, A Tibet, A Urals, A Uzbekistan, A Warsaw.
Movement results for Fall of 1916.
India: A Afghanistan Supports A Uzbekistan - Iran.
India: F Australia Supports A Jawan Sea - Eastern Indian Ocean.
India: F Borneo Hold.
India: A Calcutta - Bangladesh.
India: F East Africa - Egypt.
India: A Kunlun Hold.
India: A Pakistan Supports A Uzbekistan - Iran.
India: F Persian Gulf - Arabia (*Invalid Coast*).
India: F Sri Lanka Supports F Bombay - Arabian Sea (*No Such Unit*).
India: F Sumatra - Central Indian Ocean (*Fails*).
India: A Thailand Hold.
Indonesia: F South Indian Ocean Hold.
Russia: A Arabia - Iraq (*Bounce*).
Russia: F Barents Sea - St. Petersburg (*Fails*).
Russia: F Caspian Sea Supports A Sevastopol.
Russia: F Central Indian Ocean Supports F Yemen - Arabian Sea
(*Cut*).
Russia: A Iran - Iraq (*Dislodged*).
Russia: F Oman - Red Sea (*Fails*).
Russia: A Sevastopol Hold.
Russia: F Yemen - Arabian Sea (*Bounce*).
Siberia: F Arctic Sea Convoys A West Siberia - St. Petersburg.
Siberia: F Bay of Bengal - Arabian Sea (*Bounce*).
Siberia: A Cambodia Hold.
Siberia: F Celebes Sea - Jawan Sea.
Siberia: A Ekaterinburg - Kazakhstan.
Siberia: F Jawan Sea - Eastern Indian Ocean.
Siberia: A Kazakhstan - Moscow.
Siberia: A Laos Hold.
Siberia: A Novosibirsk Supports A Ekaterinburg - Kazakhstan.
Siberia: F Sea of Okhotsk - East China Sea.
Siberia: F South China Sea Hold.
Siberia: F Thai Sea Hold.
Siberia: A Tien Shan - Uzbekistan.
Siberia: A Tibet Hold.
Siberia: A Urals Supports A West Siberia - St. Petersburg.
Siberia: A Uzbekistan - Iran.
Siberia: A Warsaw Supports A Kazakhstan - Moscow.
Siberia: A West Siberia - St. Petersburg.
Deadline for Winter 1916 adjustments: Friday, November 19th (at)
2359 UTC.
files: http://mainecav.org/diplomacy[Reply] |
| DC 338 Spring 06 Results with image - derekthefeared2 (Nov 16, 2010, 9:37 pm) |
It has been pointed out to me by a couple people that I sent two copies of the realpolitik file but none of the picture. Should be attached to this. Also you can always view the map on the dipcorp webpag, but in the future I should continue to send the image in the e-mail so it won't be needed.
Thanks
--- On Sun, 11/14/10, Derek eyler <derekthefeared2(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Derek eyler <derekthefeared2(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: DC 338 Spring 06 Results
To: dc338(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Cc: rk(at)giorsoine.dk, tcooperstein730(at)att.net, paulnaples(at)hotmail.com, dipcorp.player(at)gmail.com, sanjat312(at)yahoo.com, mountaindew(at)btconnect.com, sigvaldprivat(at)gmail.com
Date: Sunday, November 14, 2010, 9:28 PM
No moves from Russia this time. Hopefully they will be around to send moves for the fall. Fall 06 Orders will be due this Friday Nov 19th at 3:00 PM US Eastern time.
The Austrian army in Tus is destroyed. I assumed that the French army will retreat to
BOH. France, please let me know asap if you want to retreat OTB instead.
Let me know if you have any other questions. I think someone had requested a longer deadline over thanksgiving. Please send me an e-mail to refresh me whoever had requested.
thanks,
Austria:
F Aegean Sea - Ionian Sea (*Fails*)
A Ankara Hold
A Budapest - Rumania
A Constantinople - Bulgaria
A Greece - Albania
A Silesia Supports A Ukraine - Warsaw
A Trieste - Tyrolia
A Tuscany - Venice (*Disbanded*)
A Ukraine - Warsaw
A Vienna Supports A Trieste - Tyrolia
England:
F Denmark - Helgoland Bight
F Liverpool - Irish Sea (*Bounce*)
F London - English Channel (*Bounce*)
F North Sea Supports F London - English Channel (*Cut*)
A Norway Hold
A St Petersburg - Moscow (*Fails*)
F Sweden - Denmark
France:
F Albania - Trieste
F Brest - English Channel (*Bounce*)
A Burgundy - Munich
F Holland - North Sea (*Fails*)
F Ionian Sea, no move received
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean - Irish Sea (*Bounce*)
A Paris - Picardy
A Piedmont Supports A Rome - Tuscany
A Rome - Tuscany
A Ruhr - Kiel
A Tyrolia, no move received (*Dislodged*)
Italy:
A Venice Supports F Albania - Trieste (*Cut*)
Russia:
F Baltic Sea, no move received
F Black Sea, no move received
A Galicia, no move received
A Moscow, no move received
A Sevastopol, no move received[Reply] |
| dc330: Sp45 Results! - dknemeyer (Nov 16, 2010, 5:13 pm) |
Diplomats,
Play on!
All three draw proposals burn like the villages of Europe. And with no new draw proposals to consider so far it appears we will see the end of 1945...
A schedule reminder: I am NOT planning to delay the game for the U.S. holiday Thanksgiving. If any of our players need a break on its account - or if people from other countries have similarly time-sucking holidays, please make sure there is at least one week's notice before a requested break.
Just one retreat: Italian A Slovakia can retreat to Czechia or OTB. I've taken the liberty of retreating it to Cze. Let me know, David, if you prefer OTB.
***
PLAYERS
Britain - sunchung / Sun Chung / sun.chung(at)gmail.com
France - DrSwordopolis / Nick Powell / nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com
Germany - charlesf / Charles Feaux de la Croix / charlesf(at)web.de
Italy (and Nationalist Spain) - raistlin / David Gould / davidchegould(at)bigpond.com
Poland - smileyrob / Robert Stein / smileyrob68(at)gmail.com
Turkey - Wladimir7 / Wladimir Mysonski / wmysonski(at)gmail.com
USSR (and Republican Spain) - Nitsch / Karsten Nitsch / karsten.nitsch(at)gmx.de
***
HEADLINES
F South-Western Approaches withstands withering assault
Little progress for rebuffed Italians
Polish might being felt in the former Germany, Slovakia, Siberia
Stalin harasses Polish Moscow to no avail
Turkey departs Russia and the Ukraine, seemingly bracing for endgame
Spaniards attempt to outflank the British Royal Navy
***
Italian Press:
"One day, however-- sad and melancholy day!-- peace was signed between the survivors of the war; the thunder of the guns gradually ceased, the mortars were silent, the howitzers were muzzled for an indefinite period, the cannon, with muzzles depressed, were returned into the arsenal, the shot were repiled, all bloody reminiscences were effaced; the tomatos and grain grew luxuriantly in the well-manured fields, all mourning garments were laid aside, together with grief; and the Italian military was relegated to profound inactivity." (Jules Verne)
Sad and melancholy day indeed. However, shall the guns rest silent forever? Shall no more once-human remants lie scattered across a wasteland of craters as the chatter of machinegun fire turns hopes and dreams to shattered bone and splattered blood? Nay. We shall not let that dreadful dawning come to pass. As a famous fighter once said, 'Peace. I hate the word, as I hate hell, all Diplomats and thee, my fine opponents.' And one day I would make war on you again.
***
Britain:
A Belgium Supports A Netherlands - Rhineland
F Hamburg - Netherlands
F Ireland Supports F South-Western Approaches
A Netherlands - Rhineland
F Atlantic Ocean Supports F South-Western Approaches
F English Channel - Brest
F South-Western Approaches Supports F English Channel - Brest
Italy:
F Albania Supports F Naples - Ionian Sea
A Austria - Hungary
F Gibraltar Supports F Portugal - South-Western Approaches
A Hungary - Transylvania
A Lorraine Supports A Paris - Picardy
F Morocco Supports F Portugal - South-Western Approaches
A Munich - Rhineland
F Naples - Ionian Sea
A Paris - Picardy
A Picardy - Belgium
F Rome(ec) - Adriatic Sea
A Serbia - Greece
A Slovakia Supports A Hungary - Transylvania
F Western Mediterranean - Tyrrhenian Sea
Poland:
A Archangel - Siberia
A Byelorussia Supports A Moscow
A Cracow - Slovakia
F Denmark - Sweden
A Greater Poland - Saxony
A Latvia - Leningrad
A Lithuania - Volhynia
A Moscow Supports A Archangel - Siberia
A Rumania - Transylvania
A Silesia Supports A Cracow - Slovakia
A Warsaw - Cracow
A Western Ukraine Supports A Moscow
Turkey:
A Bulgaria - Thrace
A Dobruja Supports A Eastern Ukraine - Bulgaria
A Eastern Ukraine - Bulgaria
A Egypt - Tripoli
F Greece Supports A Bulgaria - Thrace
A Iran Hold
A Siberia - Kazakhstan
F Suez Hold
F Black Sea Convoys A Eastern Ukraine - Bulgaria
F Ionian Sea Supports F Greece
F Libyan Sea Supports F Ionian Sea
USSR:
A Stalingrad - Moscow
Republican_Spain:
F Brest Supports F Portugal - South-Western Approaches
F Burgos - Bay of Biscay
A Gascony Supports F Brest
A Madrid Supports F Gibraltar
F Portugal - South-Western Approaches
***
Ownership of supply centers
Britain: Belgium, Berlin, Edinburgh, Hamburg, Liverpool, London, Netherlands.
France: None.
Germany: None.
Italy: Algiers, Austria, Croatia, Czechia, Hungary, Marsailles, Milan, Morocco, Munich, Naples, Paris, Rome, Serbia, Switzerland.
Poland: Cracow, Denmark, Finland, Gdynia, Latvia, Leningrad, Lithuania, Moscow, Norway, Rumania, Sweden, Warsaw.
Turkey: Ankara, Beirut, Bulgaria, Egypt, Greece, Iran, Iraq, Istanbul, Izmir, Stalingrad, Suez, Tripoli.
USSR: None.
Republican_Spain: Brest, Burgos, Madrid, Portugal, Valencia.
Britain: 7 Supply centers, 7 Units: Remove 0.
France: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Remove 0.
Germany: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Remove 0.
Italy: 14 Supply centers, 14 Units: Build 0.
Poland: 12 Supply centers, 12 Units: Build 0.
Turkey: 11 Supply centers, 11 Units: Build 0.
USSR: 1 Supply center, 1 Units: Remove 0.
Republican_Spain: 5 Supply centers, 5 Units: Build 0.
***
Upcoming Deadlines (all orders are due at 5 PM EST, GMT -5)
Summer 1945 Retreats, Thursday November 18
Fall 1945 Prelims, Friday November 19
Fall 1945 Orders, Tuesday November 23
Winter 1944 Retreats and Adjustments, Thursday November 25
Spring 1945 Prelims, Monday November 29
Spring 1945 Orders, Tuesday November 30
***[Reply] |
| DC327 - Spring 12 adjudication - FuzzyLogic (Nov 16, 2010, 8:18 am) |
Is there any end to this game? Anything ppl want to vote?
From: Gregory Olson [mailto lson.gregoryscott(at)gmail.com]
Sent: Mon 11/15/2010 10:21 PM
To: lequinian(at)gmail.com
Cc: Michael Sims; DipCorp Master; Charles Welsh (DC327 Attica); Jerry Todd (DC327 Boeotia); Michael Penner (DC327 Arcolia); Scott Hickey (DC327 Laconia); dc327
Subject: Re: DC327 - Spring 12 adjudication
Sorry everyone for the sloppy play. I'm fine with the GM rules of a disband for my retreats. My apologies again, and I'm still with us.
Greg
On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 9:00 PM, <lequinian(at)gmail.com> wrote:
I've seen it both ways depending on the GM.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
From: "Michael Sims" <mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net>
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2010 18:23:59 -0600
To: DipCorp Master<dipcorp.master(at)gmail.com>; Charles Welsh \(DC327 Attica\)<welsh_stroud(at)msn.com>; Greg Olson \(DC327 Aetolia\)<olson.gregoryscott(at)gmail.com>; Jerry Todd \(DC327 Boeotia\)<sgttodd(at)mainecav.org>; Matt Barnes \(DC327 Messenia\)<mlb767(at)aim.com>; Michael Penner \(DC327 Arcolia\)<mvpenner(at)yahoo.com>; Scott Hickey \(DC327 Laconia\)<thase+dipcorp(at)dalarin.net>
Cc: dc327<dc327(at)diplomaticcorp.com>
Subject: RE: DC327 - Spring 12 adjudication
Is Aetolia not entitled to retreat dislodged units, even despite the NMR?
From: DipCorp Master [mailto:dipcorp.master(at)gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2010 5:54 PM
To: Charles Welsh (DC327 Attica); Greg Olson (DC327 Aetolia); Jerry Todd (DC327 Boeotia); Matt Barnes (DC327 Messenia); Michael Penner (DC327 Arcolia); Michael Sims; Scott Hickey (DC327 Laconia)
Cc: dc327
Subject: Re: DC327 - Spring 12 adjudication
CORRECTION:
due to an RP error in its .MAP file two Laconian orders failed.
After correction both succeed:
A Sparta - Thuria
F Thuria - Messeniacus Sinus
New .DPY and .GIF files are attached including the corrected .MAP file that should be copied into the Pericles RP Variants folder.
Once you have done this, restart RP and it should show the right adjudication for THU - MSS.
Frank
2010/11/13 DipCorp Master <dipcorp.master(at)gmail.com>
The DIAS EGP was rejected.
Spring 12
--------------
Aetolia NMRs!
All of the units of Aetolia hold their ground clueless for lack of orders.
As a result of attacks by Arcolia and Laconia 2 of its units are disbanded.
Everyone is wondering is disbelief what has happened to the once so mighty Aetolia.
Is its ruler still alive? Is there a power struggle at the top? Has summer recess started early?
Adjudication
------------------
Aetolia:
A Callium, no move received
F Calydon, no move received
F Cypurissius Sinus, no move received
A Kaphyae, no move received
A Pellea, no move received
A Phocis, no move received
A Pisatis, no move received
A Protilae, no move received (*Disbanded*)
F Sinus Corinthiucus, no move received (*Disbanded*)
A Triphylia, no move received
F Zazynthus Sinus, no move received
Boeotia:
A Helicon Supports A Eleusis - Thebae
Attica:
A Athenae - Phthiotis
F Delion - Corsea
F Euboeius Sinus Convoys A Athenae - Phthiotis
A Marathon - Delion
A Opus Supports A Helicon
F Pylos - Cypurissius Sinus (*Fails*)
Arcolia:
A Arcadia Supports A Maniana - Protilae
F Corinth - Sinus Corinthiucus
A Eleusis - Thebae
F Megara(wc) Supports F Corinth - Sinus Corinthiucus
A Mycenae - Corinth
A Orchenenus - Pellea (*Fails*)
Laconia:
A Ira Supports A Lycaion
F Khora Supports A Ira
A Lycaion Supports A Maniana - Protilae
A Maniana - Protilae
F Mare Mediterranea Convoys A Athenae - Phthiotis
A Megalopolis - Maniana
F Messena Supports F Thuria - Messeniacus Sinus
F Saronieus Sinus Supports A Mycenae - Corinth
A Sparta - Thuria
F Thuria - Messeniacus Sinus
Elia:
F Italus Sinus Supports F Cypurissius Sinus
Fall 12 deadline is Thursday Nov 18 at 7pm GMT.
Frank
[Reply] |
| dc342 ~ Imperial1841 - sgttodd (Nov 16, 2010, 7:33 am) |
The deadline for Fall 1844 orders is Monday, November 22nd (at) 2359 UTC.
Retreat orders for Spring of 1844.
Austria: F Tyrrhenian Sea - Ionian Sea.
Holland: F Celebes Sea - Timor Sea.
Spain: A Metz - Rouen.
Unit locations:
Austria: A Venice, A Marseilles, A Holland, F Denmark, A Kiel, A Stuttgart, A Metz, A Piedmont, A Switzerland, A South Africa, F Baltic Sea, F Ionian Sea, F Cimbebas Coast.
Britain: A Paris, A Nantes, F Java, A Caffrabia, A Kasmir, A Ceylon, A Punjab, A French Guiana, F Haiti, F Barents Sea, F Norwegian Sea, F Helgoland Bight, F English Channel, F Arabian Sea, F N.E.Indian Ocean, F N.W.Indian Ocean, F Java Sea, F Celebes Sea.
China: F Guangdong, F Yongmingcheng, F Kagoshima, A Irkutsk, F Edo, A Hue, A Xining, A Xinjang, A Mongolia, A Nei Mongol, A Formosa, A Yakutsk, F Eastern Sea.
France: F Loango, A Cape Colony, A Bordeaux, A Bambarra, A Soudan, F British Guiana, F The Azores, F Mid-Atlantic Ocean, F Roaring Forties, F Mozabaique Channel, F Bismark Sea.
Holland: F Borneo, F Phillipines, A Sakhurlin, F Coral Sea, F Timor Sea.
Ottoman: F Tunisia, A Ethiopia, A Donga, A Hahira, A Somolia, F Ade, A Afganistan, A Bangalore, A Hadramaut, F Red Sea, F Persian Gulf.
Russia: A St Petersburg, A Orenburg, A Norway, A Tashkent, A Omsk, A Evenki, A Khiva, A Krasnoyarsk, A Bokhara, F Skagerrak.
Spain: F Madrid, A Columbia, A Rouen, F Algiers, A Mozambique, A Amazona, F Venezuela, A Vancouver, F Gulf of Lyon, F Tyrrhenian Sea, F Rio de Plate, F Horn of Africa, F Phillipene Sea, F Izu Sea, F W.Pacific Ocean, F S.W.Pacific Ocean, F Hawaii, F Chilean Basin.
USA: A Bahama Islands, A Washington DC, F Labrador Sea, F Greenland Sea, F Canaries Seaway, F Gulf of Maine, F Bay of Florida, F Eastern Carribean, F Sargasso Sea, F Amazon Basin.
files: http://mainecav.org/diplomacy
_______________________________________________________
Sent through e-mol. E-mail, Anywhere, Anytime. http://www.e-mol.com[Reply] |
| dc325 Imterra - F09 Bye Bye Ben - Sean2010 (Nov 15, 2010, 11:15 pm) |
With Anglo-Franco shot down already, I would like to voice publically that Russia aims to vote yes to a Anglo-Austrian-Franco 3-way draw.
from Sean
[Reply] |
| dc325 Imterra - F09 Bye Bye Ben - garry.bledsoe (Nov 15, 2010, 11:13 pm) |
Sorry but proposals are only accepted with orders for voting with the next turn's orders (typically only with turns where all players have to submit orders). I will accept EGP's with Winter orders for Spring voting. Thanks.
Garry
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 22:41:07 -0600
Subject: Re: dc325 Imterra - F09 Bye Bye Ben
From: kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com
To: mlb767(at)aim.com
CC: kielmarch(at)hotmail.com; timfuhrmeister(at)yahoo.com; dreamsynergy(at)hotmail.com; johnb229(at)gmail.com; sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com; loganlaw299(at)aol.com; dc325(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Can I ask for a 3-way at this point? Is it too late for Winter, or do I have to propose it privately to be voted on in the Spring?
On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 9:30 PM, Barnes, Matthew <mlb767(at)aim.com> wrote:
Let's end this speculation really quickly...
Austria votes NO
We are a proud people and will not write ourselves out of a draw.
On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 10:11 PM, Garry Bledsoe <kielmarch(at)hotmail.com> wrote:
As Expected, Italy Has Been Eliminated
We Have an EGP!!!
Proposed E/F 2-way Draw
Russia Carved Up - Austria and England Benefit; Russia Sets Up Camp in Turkey
Well, the game is officially moving into another phase. How fitting that it sees its first EGP. Note that all remaining players must vote YES for the proposal or it fails. A failure to vote with orders will be counted as a NO.
We require no retreats but we do have adjustments needed for our Winter turn:
Austria - build 2
England - build 3
France - build 1
Russia - remove 4
Let's have Winter adjustments in by Wednesday this week at 6pm CST and have our Spring10 turn for next Monday the 22nd at 6pm CST if needed. Since all remaining players have orders due with Winter, we will vote on the EGP with Winter orders!
Lord of the March
Austria:
A Budapest - Rumania
A Bulgaria Supports F Constantinople
F Constantinople Supports F Greece - Aegean Sea (*Cut*)
A Serbia Supports A Budapest - Rumania
A Venice - Tyrolia (*Bounce*)
A Vienna - Tyrolia (*Bounce*)
England:
F Baltic Sea Convoys A Denmark - Berlin
A Denmark - Berlin
F Helgoland Bight - Kiel
F Holland Supports F Helgoland Bight - Kiel
A Livonia Supports A Silesia - Warsaw
F North Sea Hold
A Prussia Supports A Silesia - Warsaw
A Silesia - Warsaw
A St Petersburg - Moscow
France:
A Burgundy - Belgium
F Greece - Aegean Sea
A Munich Supports A Silesia (*Ordered to Move*)
F Naples - Ionian Sea
A Picardy Supports A Burgundy - Belgium
A Rome - Naples (*Bounce*)
A Ruhr Supports A Munich
F Spain(sc) Hold
F Tyrrhenian Sea - Naples (*Bounce*)
F Western Mediterranean Hold
Italy:
A Apulia - Rome (*Fails*)
Russia:
A Armenia - Ankara
F Black Sea Supports F Smyrna - Constantinople
A Bohemia Supports A Warsaw - Galicia
A Moscow - Sevastopol
F Smyrna - Constantinople (*Fails*)
A Ukraine Supports A Warsaw - Galicia
A Warsaw - Galicia
=[Reply] |
| dc325 Imterra - F09 Bye Bye Ben - kevinokelly (Nov 15, 2010, 10:41 pm) |
[Reply] |
| DC327 - Spring 12 adjudication - evapollo88 (Nov 15, 2010, 10:21 pm) |
[Reply] |
| dc325 Imterra - F09 Bye Bye Ben - TheFinalCountdown (Nov 15, 2010, 9:30 pm) |
[Reply] |
| dc325 Imterra - F09 Bye Bye Ben - garry.bledsoe (Nov 15, 2010, 9:11 pm) |
As Expected, Italy Has Been Eliminated
We Have an EGP!!!
Proposed E/F 2-way Draw
Russia Carved Up - Austria and England Benefit; Russia Sets Up Camp in Turkey
Well, the game is officially moving into another phase. How fitting that it sees its first EGP. Note that all remaining players must vote YES for the proposal or it fails. A failure to vote with orders will be counted as a NO.
We require no retreats but we do have adjustments needed for our Winter turn:
Austria - build 2
England - build 3
France - build 1
Russia - remove 4
Let's have Winter adjustments in by Wednesday this week at 6pm CST and have our Spring10 turn for next Monday the 22nd at 6pm CST if needed. Since all remaining players have orders due with Winter, we will vote on the EGP with Winter orders!
Lord of the March
Austria:
A Budapest - Rumania
A Bulgaria Supports F Constantinople
F Constantinople Supports F Greece - Aegean Sea (*Cut*)
A Serbia Supports A Budapest - Rumania
A Venice - Tyrolia (*Bounce*)
A Vienna - Tyrolia (*Bounce*)
England:
F Baltic Sea Convoys A Denmark - Berlin
A Denmark - Berlin
F Helgoland Bight - Kiel
F Holland Supports F Helgoland Bight - Kiel
A Livonia Supports A Silesia - Warsaw
F North Sea Hold
A Prussia Supports A Silesia - Warsaw
A Silesia - Warsaw
A St Petersburg - Moscow
France:
A Burgundy - Belgium
F Greece - Aegean Sea
A Munich Supports A Silesia (*Ordered to Move*)
F Naples - Ionian Sea
A Picardy Supports A Burgundy - Belgium
A Rome - Naples (*Bounce*)
A Ruhr Supports A Munich
F Spain(sc) Hold
F Tyrrhenian Sea - Naples (*Bounce*)
F Western Mediterranean Hold
Italy:
A Apulia - Rome (*Fails*)
Russia:
A Armenia - Ankara
F Black Sea Supports F Smyrna - Constantinople
A Bohemia Supports A Warsaw - Galicia
A Moscow - Sevastopol
F Smyrna - Constantinople (*Fails*)
A Ukraine Supports A Warsaw - Galicia
A Warsaw - Galicia[Reply] |
| dc325 Imterra - F09 Bye Bye Ben (dc325) TheFinalCountdown Nov 15, 09:30 pm |
|
| dc325 Imterra - F09 Bye Bye Ben (dc325) kevinokelly Nov 15, 10:41 pm |
|
| dc325 Imterra - F09 Bye Bye Ben (dc325) garry.bledsoe Nov 15, 11:13 pm |
Sorry but proposals are only accepted with orders for voting with the next turn's orders (typically only with turns where all players have to submit orders). I will accept EGP's with Winter orders for Spring voting. Thanks.
Garry
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 22:41:07 -0600
Subject: Re: dc325 Imterra - F09 Bye Bye Ben
From: kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com
To: mlb767(at)aim.com
CC: kielmarch(at)hotmail.com; timfuhrmeister(at)yahoo.com; dreamsynergy(at)hotmail.com; johnb229(at)gmail.com; sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com; loganlaw299(at)aol.com; dc325(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Can I ask for a 3-way at this point? Is it too late for Winter, or do I have to propose it privately to be voted on in the Spring?
On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 9:30 PM, Barnes, Matthew <mlb767(at)aim.com> wrote:
Let's end this speculation really quickly...
Austria votes NO
We are a proud people and will not write ourselves out of a draw.
On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 10:11 PM, Garry Bledsoe <kielmarch(at)hotmail.com> wrote:
As Expected, Italy Has Been Eliminated
We Have an EGP!!!
Proposed E/F 2-way Draw
Russia Carved Up - Austria and England Benefit; Russia Sets Up Camp in Turkey
Well, the game is officially moving into another phase. How fitting that it sees its first EGP. Note that all remaining players must vote YES for the proposal or it fails. A failure to vote with orders will be counted as a NO.
We require no retreats but we do have adjustments needed for our Winter turn:
Austria - build 2
England - build 3
France - build 1
Russia - remove 4
Let's have Winter adjustments in by Wednesday this week at 6pm CST and have our Spring10 turn for next Monday the 22nd at 6pm CST if needed. Since all remaining players have orders due with Winter, we will vote on the EGP with Winter orders!
Lord of the March
Austria:
A Budapest - Rumania
A Bulgaria Supports F Constantinople
F Constantinople Supports F Greece - Aegean Sea (*Cut*)
A Serbia Supports A Budapest - Rumania
A Venice - Tyrolia (*Bounce*)
A Vienna - Tyrolia (*Bounce*)
England:
F Baltic Sea Convoys A Denmark - Berlin
A Denmark - Berlin
F Helgoland Bight - Kiel
F Holland Supports F Helgoland Bight - Kiel
A Livonia Supports A Silesia - Warsaw
F North Sea Hold
A Prussia Supports A Silesia - Warsaw
A Silesia - Warsaw
A St Petersburg - Moscow
France:
A Burgundy - Belgium
F Greece - Aegean Sea
A Munich Supports A Silesia (*Ordered to Move*)
F Naples - Ionian Sea
A Picardy Supports A Burgundy - Belgium
A Rome - Naples (*Bounce*)
A Ruhr Supports A Munich
F Spain(sc) Hold
F Tyrrhenian Sea - Naples (*Bounce*)
F Western Mediterranean Hold
Italy:
A Apulia - Rome (*Fails*)
Russia:
A Armenia - Ankara
F Black Sea Supports F Smyrna - Constantinople
A Bohemia Supports A Warsaw - Galicia
A Moscow - Sevastopol
F Smyrna - Constantinople (*Fails*)
A Ukraine Supports A Warsaw - Galicia
A Warsaw - Galicia
= |
| dc325 Imterra - F09 Bye Bye Ben (dc325) Sean2010 Nov 15, 11:15 pm |
With Anglo-Franco shot down already, I would like to voice publically that Russia aims to vote yes to a Anglo-Austrian-Franco 3-way draw.
from Sean
|
| dc340 DCI 2010 - Summer04 Retreats - garry.bledsoe (Nov 15, 2010, 8:46 pm) |
An official note:
In the Spring turn, Ukraine actually ordered Con-Ana. It did not change the turn's outcome nor the need for the retreat. Thus it was never corrected. However I wanted it to be officially recorded that that was the move and that it was my mistake.
Garry
From: kielmarch(at)hotmail.com
To: smegdwarf(at)yahoo.com; camorse22(at)yahoo.com; dirk(at)knemeyer.com; jhack16(at)gmail.com; kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com; m_don_j(at)hotmail.com; mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net; untitled36(at)hotmail.com; michael.alan.walters(at)gmail.com; dci(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Subject: dc340 DCI 2010 - Summer04 Retreats
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 20:41:54 -0500
Some countries gain by retreating...
A Con retreats to the Byzantine outpost Smy
A Gda retreats to Sil
F SOU docks in Por
F MAL visits the Sicilian port of Nap
So all good and we move along to Fall. Let's set that for next Monday at 6pm CST.
Lord of the March
From: kielmarch(at)hotmail.com
To: smegdwarf(at)yahoo.com; camorse22(at)yahoo.com; dirk(at)knemeyer.com; jhack16(at)gmail.com; kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com; m_don_j(at)hotmail.com; mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net; untitled36(at)hotmail.com; michael.alan.walters(at)gmail.com; dci(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Subject: dc340 DCI 2010 - S04 Results: Not Dead Yet...I Think I'll Stroll Into Gda
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 01:06:33 -0500
Poland Rolls Into Gda Showing He Isn't Dead Quite Yet
He Receives Help Too
But Don't Cry for Burgundy...He Moves Into The French Riviera
Good Money Says Spain Will Survive 04
Sicily Under Seige?
Byzantium Gets Support from the South But Ukraine Still Gets the Better End of the Deal?
All,
Apologies for being a bit late...today at work was brutal and I didn't have the time that I thought I would have to run the turn before my plans.
A bit of business:
1. I have heard rumors that emails are being forwarded from one player to another (from a third player). Please read my House Rules. This is a] unacceptable and b] not permitted and are grounds for dismissal from the game. Please stop this immediately. I will avoid preaching here but suffice it to say that I think that this has no place in Diplomacy (as a purist).
2. We have quite a few retreats. Let's get those in by Monday the 15th at 6pm CST.
That should cover us.
Retreats are:
Ukranian A Con can retreat to Pis, Smy, Ait, Thr or OTB.
Burgundian A Gda can retreat to Mar, Sil or OTB.
Israelite F MAL can retreat to TOB, Pal, Nap or OTB.
Spanish F SOU can retreat to IFN, Por or OTB.
Lord of the March
Burgundy:
A Bavaria - Tyrol (*Fails*)
F Bornholm Sea - Denmark (*Bounce*)
A Brittany Hold
F Brussels - Anglican Sea (*Bounce*)
A Dijon - Schwyz
A Gascony - Languedoc
A Gdansk Supports A Masuria - Warsaw (*Dislodged*)
A Ruhr - Bavaria (*Fails*)
A Saxony Supports A Gdansk
A Valencia - Gibraltar
Sicily:
F Morroco - South Atlantic Ocean
F Naples - Apulia
A Piedmont Supports A Bavaria - Tyrol
A Sahara - Tripolitania (*Bounce*)
F Tunisia - Malta Sea
F Tyrrhenian Sea Supports F Tunisia - Malta Sea
A Venezia - Umbria
F Western Mediterranean Supports F Morroco - South Atlantic Ocean
Eire:
F Irish Sea - English Channel
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean Supports F Irish Sea - English Channel
F Santander - South Atlantic Ocean (*Fails*)
F Skagerrak - Denmark (*Bounce*)
F Sweden - Bornholm Sea (*Fails*)
F Wessex - Anglican Sea (*Bounce*)
A Yorkshire - Cymru
Hungary:
F Adriatic Sea Supports A Croatia - Venezia
A Austria - Croatia
A Bohemia Supports A Tyrol
A Croatia - Venezia
A Tyrol Supports A Croatia - Venezia (*Cut*)
Israel:
F Aegean Sea - Pylos Sea
A Cilicia Supports F Armenia
F Cyrenaica - Tripolitania (*Bounce*)
F Malta Sea - Tyrrhenian Sea (*Dislodged*)
A Turkestan - Iran
Poland:
F Baltic Sea - Gdansk
A Masuria Supports F Baltic Sea - Gdansk
Spain:
A Catalonia - Estremadura
F South Atlantic Ocean Hold (*Dislodged*)
Ukraine:
A Constantinople Supports A Cilicia - Anatolia (*Dislodged*)
F East Black Sea - Armenia (*Fails*)
F Georgia Supports F East Black Sea - Armenia
A Karelia - Muscovy
A Rumania - Bulgaria
A Warsaw Supports F Baltic Sea - Gdansk
F West Black Sea Supports A Rumania - Bulgaria
Byzantium:
A Anatolia Supports A Bulgaria - Constantinople
F Armenia Supports A Anatolia (*Cut*)
A Bulgaria - Constantinople
F Ionian Sea Supports A Croatia - Apulia (*Void*)
F Smyrna - Aegean Sea[Reply] |
| dc340 DCI 2010 - Summer04 Retreats - garry.bledsoe (Nov 15, 2010, 7:41 pm) |
Some countries gain by retreating...
A Con retreats to the Byzantine outpost Smy
A Gda retreats to Sil
F SOU docks in Por
F MAL visits the Sicilian port of Nap
So all good and we move along to Fall. Let's set that for next Monday at 6pm CST.
Lord of the March
From: kielmarch(at)hotmail.com
To: smegdwarf(at)yahoo.com; camorse22(at)yahoo.com; dirk(at)knemeyer.com; jhack16(at)gmail.com; kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com; m_don_j(at)hotmail.com; mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net; untitled36(at)hotmail.com; michael.alan.walters(at)gmail.com; dci(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Subject: dc340 DCI 2010 - S04 Results: Not Dead Yet...I Think I'll Stroll Into Gda
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 01:06:33 -0500
Poland Rolls Into Gda Showing He Isn't Dead Quite Yet
He Receives Help Too
But Don't Cry for Burgundy...He Moves Into The French Riviera
Good Money Says Spain Will Survive 04
Sicily Under Seige?
Byzantium Gets Support from the South But Ukraine Still Gets the Better End of the Deal?
All,
Apologies for being a bit late...today at work was brutal and I didn't have the time that I thought I would have to run the turn before my plans.
A bit of business:
1. I have heard rumors that emails are being forwarded from one player to another (from a third player). Please read my House Rules. This is a] unacceptable and b] not permitted and are grounds for dismissal from the game. Please stop this immediately. I will avoid preaching here but suffice it to say that I think that this has no place in Diplomacy (as a purist).
2. We have quite a few retreats. Let's get those in by Monday the 15th at 6pm CST.
That should cover us.
Retreats are:
Ukranian A Con can retreat to Pis, Smy, Ait, Thr or OTB.
Burgundian A Gda can retreat to Mar, Sil or OTB.
Israelite F MAL can retreat to TOB, Pal, Nap or OTB.
Spanish F SOU can retreat to IFN, Por or OTB.
Lord of the March
Burgundy:
A Bavaria - Tyrol (*Fails*)
F Bornholm Sea - Denmark (*Bounce*)
A Brittany Hold
F Brussels - Anglican Sea (*Bounce*)
A Dijon - Schwyz
A Gascony - Languedoc
A Gdansk Supports A Masuria - Warsaw (*Dislodged*)
A Ruhr - Bavaria (*Fails*)
A Saxony Supports A Gdansk
A Valencia - Gibraltar
Sicily:
F Morroco - South Atlantic Ocean
F Naples - Apulia
A Piedmont Supports A Bavaria - Tyrol
A Sahara - Tripolitania (*Bounce*)
F Tunisia - Malta Sea
F Tyrrhenian Sea Supports F Tunisia - Malta Sea
A Venezia - Umbria
F Western Mediterranean Supports F Morroco - South Atlantic Ocean
Eire:
F Irish Sea - English Channel
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean Supports F Irish Sea - English Channel
F Santander - South Atlantic Ocean (*Fails*)
F Skagerrak - Denmark (*Bounce*)
F Sweden - Bornholm Sea (*Fails*)
F Wessex - Anglican Sea (*Bounce*)
A Yorkshire - Cymru
Hungary:
F Adriatic Sea Supports A Croatia - Venezia
A Austria - Croatia
A Bohemia Supports A Tyrol
A Croatia - Venezia
A Tyrol Supports A Croatia - Venezia (*Cut*)
Israel:
F Aegean Sea - Pylos Sea
A Cilicia Supports F Armenia
F Cyrenaica - Tripolitania (*Bounce*)
F Malta Sea - Tyrrhenian Sea (*Dislodged*)
A Turkestan - Iran
Poland:
F Baltic Sea - Gdansk
A Masuria Supports F Baltic Sea - Gdansk
Spain:
A Catalonia - Estremadura
F South Atlantic Ocean Hold (*Dislodged*)
Ukraine:
A Constantinople Supports A Cilicia - Anatolia (*Dislodged*)
F East Black Sea - Armenia (*Fails*)
F Georgia Supports F East Black Sea - Armenia
A Karelia - Muscovy
A Rumania - Bulgaria
A Warsaw Supports F Baltic Sea - Gdansk
F West Black Sea Supports A Rumania - Bulgaria
Byzantium:
A Anatolia Supports A Bulgaria - Constantinople
F Armenia Supports A Anatolia (*Cut*)
A Bulgaria - Constantinople
F Ionian Sea Supports A Croatia - Apulia (*Void*)
F Smyrna - Aegean Sea[Reply] |
| dc340 DCI 2010 - Summer04 Retreats (DC Invitational) garry.bledsoe Nov 15, 08:46 pm |
An official note:
In the Spring turn, Ukraine actually ordered Con-Ana. It did not change the turn's outcome nor the need for the retreat. Thus it was never corrected. However I wanted it to be officially recorded that that was the move and that it was my mistake.
Garry
From: kielmarch(at)hotmail.com
To: smegdwarf(at)yahoo.com; camorse22(at)yahoo.com; dirk(at)knemeyer.com; jhack16(at)gmail.com; kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com; m_don_j(at)hotmail.com; mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net; untitled36(at)hotmail.com; michael.alan.walters(at)gmail.com; dci(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Subject: dc340 DCI 2010 - Summer04 Retreats
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 20:41:54 -0500
Some countries gain by retreating...
A Con retreats to the Byzantine outpost Smy
A Gda retreats to Sil
F SOU docks in Por
F MAL visits the Sicilian port of Nap
So all good and we move along to Fall. Let's set that for next Monday at 6pm CST.
Lord of the March
From: kielmarch(at)hotmail.com
To: smegdwarf(at)yahoo.com; camorse22(at)yahoo.com; dirk(at)knemeyer.com; jhack16(at)gmail.com; kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com; m_don_j(at)hotmail.com; mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net; untitled36(at)hotmail.com; michael.alan.walters(at)gmail.com; dci(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Subject: dc340 DCI 2010 - S04 Results: Not Dead Yet...I Think I'll Stroll Into Gda
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 01:06:33 -0500
Poland Rolls Into Gda Showing He Isn't Dead Quite Yet
He Receives Help Too
But Don't Cry for Burgundy...He Moves Into The French Riviera
Good Money Says Spain Will Survive 04
Sicily Under Seige?
Byzantium Gets Support from the South But Ukraine Still Gets the Better End of the Deal?
All,
Apologies for being a bit late...today at work was brutal and I didn't have the time that I thought I would have to run the turn before my plans.
A bit of business:
1. I have heard rumors that emails are being forwarded from one player to another (from a third player). Please read my House Rules. This is a] unacceptable and b] not permitted and are grounds for dismissal from the game. Please stop this immediately. I will avoid preaching here but suffice it to say that I think that this has no place in Diplomacy (as a purist).
2. We have quite a few retreats. Let's get those in by Monday the 15th at 6pm CST.
That should cover us.
Retreats are:
Ukranian A Con can retreat to Pis, Smy, Ait, Thr or OTB.
Burgundian A Gda can retreat to Mar, Sil or OTB.
Israelite F MAL can retreat to TOB, Pal, Nap or OTB.
Spanish F SOU can retreat to IFN, Por or OTB.
Lord of the March
Burgundy:
A Bavaria - Tyrol (*Fails*)
F Bornholm Sea - Denmark (*Bounce*)
A Brittany Hold
F Brussels - Anglican Sea (*Bounce*)
A Dijon - Schwyz
A Gascony - Languedoc
A Gdansk Supports A Masuria - Warsaw (*Dislodged*)
A Ruhr - Bavaria (*Fails*)
A Saxony Supports A Gdansk
A Valencia - Gibraltar
Sicily:
F Morroco - South Atlantic Ocean
F Naples - Apulia
A Piedmont Supports A Bavaria - Tyrol
A Sahara - Tripolitania (*Bounce*)
F Tunisia - Malta Sea
F Tyrrhenian Sea Supports F Tunisia - Malta Sea
A Venezia - Umbria
F Western Mediterranean Supports F Morroco - South Atlantic Ocean
Eire:
F Irish Sea - English Channel
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean Supports F Irish Sea - English Channel
F Santander - South Atlantic Ocean (*Fails*)
F Skagerrak - Denmark (*Bounce*)
F Sweden - Bornholm Sea (*Fails*)
F Wessex - Anglican Sea (*Bounce*)
A Yorkshire - Cymru
Hungary:
F Adriatic Sea Supports A Croatia - Venezia
A Austria - Croatia
A Bohemia Supports A Tyrol
A Croatia - Venezia
A Tyrol Supports A Croatia - Venezia (*Cut*)
Israel:
F Aegean Sea - Pylos Sea
A Cilicia Supports F Armenia
F Cyrenaica - Tripolitania (*Bounce*)
F Malta Sea - Tyrrhenian Sea (*Dislodged*)
A Turkestan - Iran
Poland:
F Baltic Sea - Gdansk
A Masuria Supports F Baltic Sea - Gdansk
Spain:
A Catalonia - Estremadura
F South Atlantic Ocean Hold (*Dislodged*)
Ukraine:
A Constantinople Supports A Cilicia - Anatolia (*Dislodged*)
F East Black Sea - Armenia (*Fails*)
F Georgia Supports F East Black Sea - Armenia
A Karelia - Muscovy
A Rumania - Bulgaria
A Warsaw Supports F Baltic Sea - Gdansk
F West Black Sea Supports A Rumania - Bulgaria
Byzantium:
A Anatolia Supports A Bulgaria - Constantinople
F Armenia Supports A Anatolia (*Cut*)
A Bulgaria - Constantinople
F Ionian Sea Supports A Croatia - Apulia (*Void*)
F Smyrna - Aegean Sea |
| dc330: Deadline ~23 hours away! - dknemeyer (Nov 15, 2010, 5:11 pm) |
Gents,
Spring 1945 will explode upon Europe in less than one day. Three commanders have their orders submitted. Two are still pouring over their tactical maps. Make sure yours get in before the siren sounds!
Dirk[Reply] |
| dc337 - Fall 1906 Results - z93blom (Nov 15, 2010, 3:30 pm) |
[Reply] |
| dc337 - Fall 1906 Results - z93blom (Nov 15, 2010, 2:34 pm) |
[Reply] |
| dc337 - Fall 1906 Results (dc337) z93blom Nov 15, 03:30 pm |
|
| dc339 f216bc redux! - FuzzyLogic (Nov 15, 2010, 1:34 pm) |
Sorry for the mixup guys, not a good week for me.
I got orders from the two missing... they both have affirmed it's what they would have ordered, and such seems to be the case from what I can tell, so I've got to minimize damage and move on. Main difference is that Egypt succeeds in building their farm town, having been successfully supported in Alexandria by Memphis, thereby stealing the game rights from Scythia, making all the millions for themselves, and leaving Fredrik - still eliminated, but living instead in a cardboard box.  Sorry Fredrik, such is the risk and reward of a rampaging pillaging tribe.
Oh and Macedonia shuffles some guys around too...
Again sorry for the mixup. Once a mistake is made, any resolution will make somebody unhappy, this seems to minimize the total amount of mal effects. These are final.
Carthage: Remove 1
Egypt: Build 1
Macedonia: Build 1
Persia: Build 1
Scythia: Remove F Bithynia
By Wed, 3pm Central.
Carthage:
F O.Britannicus - O.Germanicus
F Numidian Sea - Carthage
F Syrtis Major - Cyrenaica (*Fails*)
A Saguntum - Hispania
A Gaetulia Supports F Syrtis Major - Cyrenaica
A Lugdunum Supports A Helvetii
F Lutetia Hold
A Helvetii Supports A Genua
Egypt:
A Alexandria Hold
A Memphis Supports A Alexandria
Germania:
F O.Germanicus - Britannia
F O.Hibernicus - O.Cantabricus
A Aliso Supports A Belgica
A Raetia Supports A Belgica
A Bojohaemum Supports A Belgica
A Belgica Hold
Macedonia:
F Ionian Sea Hold
F Mare Hadriaticum Convoys A Delphi - Umbria
F Aegaeum Mare Supports F Ionian Sea
A Aqueleia Supports A Delphi - Umbria
A Delphi - Umbria
A Gelonus Hold
F Kul Oba - Pontus Euxinus
A Pannonia Supports A Aqueleia
A Moesia - Byzantium
Persia:
F Lybian Sea Supports A Cyrenaica
F Gulf of Judea Supports A Sinai - Alexandria
F Lycian Sea Supports F Lybian Sea
A Maikop Supports F Kul Oba (*Ordered to Move*)
A Asiatica - Armenia
A Sinai - Alexandria (*Fails*)
A Cyrenaica Supports A Sinai - Alexandria (*Cut*)
Rome:
F Tyrhennian Sea - Punic Sea (*Bounce*)
F Punic Sea - Syrtis Major (*Fails*)
A Genua Supports A Helvetii
A Roma Supports A Genua
A Neapolis Hold
F Sicilia - Punic Sea (*Bounce*)
Scythia:
F Bithynia Hold
[Reply] |
| dc339 f216bc results! - TheFinalCountdown (Nov 15, 2010, 12:54 pm) |
[Reply] |
| dc339 f216bc results! - FuzzyLogic (Nov 15, 2010, 12:33 pm) |
For some reason I had it tagged as Friday, tho reviewing, I'd sent out a note indicating today / Monday. Ok no choice but to continue to accept orders. I can't very well impose an NMR when the player wasn't late.
From: Michael Sims
Sent: Mon 11/15/2010 11:57 AM
To: coebq(at)yahoo.com; hancockfc(at)yahoo.com; justin(at)darkenedpath.com; mjn82(at)yahoo.com; ross826(at)gmail.com; mlb767(at)aim.com; clockheardt(at)yahoo.com; fredrik(at)familjenblom.se
Cc: dc339
Subject: dc339 f216bc results!
A couple NMRs set the stage for this turn! Most notably, the great empire of Macedonia leaves it's massive army of troops idle for the turn... but were the Greeks privy to information the rest of us were not? For they take no losses anywhere as battles rage all around... and even manage - to build!
Scythians call an end to the rampaging and pillaging, and start a farm town in the foothills of Bithynia. (rumor has it in 2225 years Facebook will make a game out of this and make millions as people get addicted to feeding each others' pigs). The Scythian navy is sold off on Ebay, and emperor Fredrik retires a wealthy tribal leader.
Egyptians, thinking "let's settle down and just start up a farm town, maybe someday it'll turn into a game and make millions" get obliterated in Alexandria. Retreat to follow.
RETREATS and BUILDS by Wed:
Egypt: A Alex to Libyae or Sistrum, and Remove 1
Carthage: Remove 1
Macedonia: Build 1
Persia: Build 2
Scythia: Eliminated, remove Bithynia
ORDERS:
Carthage:
F O.Britannicus - O.Germanicus
F Numidian Sea - Carthage
F Syrtis Major - Cyrenaica (*Fails*)
A Saguntum - Hispania
A Gaetulia Supports F Syrtis Major - Cyrenaica
A Lugdunum Supports A Helvetii
F Lutetia Hold
A Helvetii Supports A Genua
Egypt: (*NMR*)
A Alexandria Hold (*Dislodged*)
A Memphis Hold
Germania:
F O.Germanicus - Britannia
F O.Hibernicus - O.Cantabricus
A Aliso Supports A Belgica
A Raetia Supports A Belgica
A Bojohaemum Supports A Belgica
A Belgica Hold
Macedonia: (*NMR*)
F Ionian Sea, no move received
F Mare Hadriaticum, no move received
F Aegaeum Mare, no move received
A Aqueleia, no move received
A Delphi, no move received
A Gelonus, no move received
F Kul Oba, no move received
A Pannonia, no move received
A Moesia, no move received
Persia:
F Lybian Sea Supports A Cyrenaica
F Gulf of Judea Supports A Sinai - Alexandria
F Lycian Sea Supports F Lybian Sea
A Maikop Supports F Kul Oba
A Asiatica - Armenia
A Sinai - Alexandria
A Cyrenaica Supports A Sinai - Alexandria (*Cut*)
Rome:
F Tyrhennian Sea - Punic Sea (*Bounce*)
F Punic Sea - Syrtis Major (*Fails*)
A Genua Supports A Helvetii
A Roma Supports A Genua
A Neapolis Hold
F Sicilia - Punic Sea (*Bounce*)
Scythia:
F Bithynia Hold
[Reply] |
| dc339 f216bc results! - Joral (Nov 15, 2010, 12:17 pm) |
Him,
I thought the deadline was 3pm today. Aren't you a little early?
Justin
Sent from Samsung mobile
Michael Sims wrote:
A couple NMRs set the stage for this turn! Most notably, the great empire of Macedonia leaves it's massive army of troops idle for the turn... but were the Greeks privy to information the rest of us were not? For they take no losses anywhere as battles rage all around... and even manage - to build!
Scythians call an end to the rampaging and pillaging, and start a farm town in the foothills of Bithynia. (rumor has it in 2225 years Facebook will make a game out of this and make millions as people get addicted to feeding each others' pigs). The Scythian navy is sold off on Ebay, and emperor Fredrik retires a wealthy tribal leader.
Egyptians, thinking "let's settle down and just start up a farm town, maybe someday it'll turn into a game and make millions" get obliterated in Alexandria. Retreat to follow.
RETREATS and BUILDS by Wed:
Egypt: A Alex to Libyae or Sistrum, and Remove 1
Carthage: Remove 1
Macedonia: Build 1
Persia: Build 2
Scythia: Eliminated, remove Bithynia
ORDERS:
Carthage:
F O.Britannicus - O.Germanicus
F Numidian Sea - Carthage
F Syrtis Major - Cyrenaica (*Fails*)
A Saguntum - Hispania
A Gaetulia Supports F Syrtis Major - Cyrenaica
A Lugdunum Supports A Helvetii
F Lutetia Hold
A Helvetii Supports A Genua
Egypt: (*NMR*)
A Alexandria Hold (*Dislodged*)
A Memphis Hold
Germania:
F O.Germanicus - Britannia
F O.Hibernicus - O.Cantabricus
A Aliso Supports A Belgica
A Raetia Supports A Belgica
A Bojohaemum Supports A Belgica
A Belgica Hold
Macedonia: (*NMR*)
F Ionian Sea, no move received
F Mare Hadriaticum, no move received
F Aegaeum Mare, no move received
A Aqueleia, no move received
A Delphi, no move received
A Gelonus, no move received
F Kul Oba, no move received
A Pannonia, no move received
A Moesia, no move received
Persia:
F Lybian Sea Supports A Cyrenaica
F Gulf of Judea Supports A Sinai - Alexandria
F Lycian Sea Supports F Lybian Sea
A Maikop Supports F Kul Oba
A Asiatica - Armenia
A Sinai - Alexandria
A Cyrenaica Supports A Sinai - Alexandria (*Cut*)
Rome:
F Tyrhennian Sea - Punic Sea (*Bounce*)
F Punic Sea - Syrtis Major (*Fails*)
A Genua Supports A Helvetii
A Roma Supports A Genua
A Neapolis Hold
F Sicilia - Punic Sea (*Bounce*)
Scythia:
F Bithynia Hold[Reply] |
| dc339 f216bc results! - FuzzyLogic (Nov 15, 2010, 11:57 am) |
A couple NMRs set the stage for this turn! Most notably, the great empire of Macedonia leaves it's massive army of troops idle for the turn... but were the Greeks privy to information the rest of us were not? For they take no losses anywhere as battles rage all around... and even manage - to build!
Scythians call an end to the rampaging and pillaging, and start a farm town in the foothills of Bithynia. (rumor has it in 2225 years Facebook will make a game out of this and make millions as people get addicted to feeding each others' pigs). The Scythian navy is sold off on Ebay, and emperor Fredrik retires a wealthy tribal leader.
Egyptians, thinking "let's settle down and just start up a farm town, maybe someday it'll turn into a game and make millions" get obliterated in Alexandria. Retreat to follow.
RETREATS and BUILDS by Wed:
Egypt: A Alex to Libyae or Sistrum, and Remove 1
Carthage: Remove 1
Macedonia: Build 1
Persia: Build 2
Scythia: Eliminated, remove Bithynia
ORDERS:
Carthage:
F O.Britannicus - O.Germanicus
F Numidian Sea - Carthage
F Syrtis Major - Cyrenaica (*Fails*)
A Saguntum - Hispania
A Gaetulia Supports F Syrtis Major - Cyrenaica
A Lugdunum Supports A Helvetii
F Lutetia Hold
A Helvetii Supports A Genua
Egypt: (*NMR*)
A Alexandria Hold (*Dislodged*)
A Memphis Hold
Germania:
F O.Germanicus - Britannia
F O.Hibernicus - O.Cantabricus
A Aliso Supports A Belgica
A Raetia Supports A Belgica
A Bojohaemum Supports A Belgica
A Belgica Hold
Macedonia: (*NMR*)
F Ionian Sea, no move received
F Mare Hadriaticum, no move received
F Aegaeum Mare, no move received
A Aqueleia, no move received
A Delphi, no move received
A Gelonus, no move received
F Kul Oba, no move received
A Pannonia, no move received
A Moesia, no move received
Persia:
F Lybian Sea Supports A Cyrenaica
F Gulf of Judea Supports A Sinai - Alexandria
F Lycian Sea Supports F Lybian Sea
A Maikop Supports F Kul Oba
A Asiatica - Armenia
A Sinai - Alexandria
A Cyrenaica Supports A Sinai - Alexandria (*Cut*)
Rome:
F Tyrhennian Sea - Punic Sea (*Bounce*)
F Punic Sea - Syrtis Major (*Fails*)
A Genua Supports A Helvetii
A Roma Supports A Genua
A Neapolis Hold
F Sicilia - Punic Sea (*Bounce*)
Scythia:
F Bithynia Hold
[Reply] |
| dc339 f216bc results! (dc339) Joral Nov 15, 12:17 pm |
Him,
I thought the deadline was 3pm today. Aren't you a little early?
Justin
Sent from Samsung mobile
Michael Sims wrote:
A couple NMRs set the stage for this turn! Most notably, the great empire of Macedonia leaves it's massive army of troops idle for the turn... but were the Greeks privy to information the rest of us were not? For they take no losses anywhere as battles rage all around... and even manage - to build!
Scythians call an end to the rampaging and pillaging, and start a farm town in the foothills of Bithynia. (rumor has it in 2225 years Facebook will make a game out of this and make millions as people get addicted to feeding each others' pigs). The Scythian navy is sold off on Ebay, and emperor Fredrik retires a wealthy tribal leader.
Egyptians, thinking "let's settle down and just start up a farm town, maybe someday it'll turn into a game and make millions" get obliterated in Alexandria. Retreat to follow.
RETREATS and BUILDS by Wed:
Egypt: A Alex to Libyae or Sistrum, and Remove 1
Carthage: Remove 1
Macedonia: Build 1
Persia: Build 2
Scythia: Eliminated, remove Bithynia
ORDERS:
Carthage:
F O.Britannicus - O.Germanicus
F Numidian Sea - Carthage
F Syrtis Major - Cyrenaica (*Fails*)
A Saguntum - Hispania
A Gaetulia Supports F Syrtis Major - Cyrenaica
A Lugdunum Supports A Helvetii
F Lutetia Hold
A Helvetii Supports A Genua
Egypt: (*NMR*)
A Alexandria Hold (*Dislodged*)
A Memphis Hold
Germania:
F O.Germanicus - Britannia
F O.Hibernicus - O.Cantabricus
A Aliso Supports A Belgica
A Raetia Supports A Belgica
A Bojohaemum Supports A Belgica
A Belgica Hold
Macedonia: (*NMR*)
F Ionian Sea, no move received
F Mare Hadriaticum, no move received
F Aegaeum Mare, no move received
A Aqueleia, no move received
A Delphi, no move received
A Gelonus, no move received
F Kul Oba, no move received
A Pannonia, no move received
A Moesia, no move received
Persia:
F Lybian Sea Supports A Cyrenaica
F Gulf of Judea Supports A Sinai - Alexandria
F Lycian Sea Supports F Lybian Sea
A Maikop Supports F Kul Oba
A Asiatica - Armenia
A Sinai - Alexandria
A Cyrenaica Supports A Sinai - Alexandria (*Cut*)
Rome:
F Tyrhennian Sea - Punic Sea (*Bounce*)
F Punic Sea - Syrtis Major (*Fails*)
A Genua Supports A Helvetii
A Roma Supports A Genua
A Neapolis Hold
F Sicilia - Punic Sea (*Bounce*)
Scythia:
F Bithynia Hold |
| dc339 f216bc results! (dc339) FuzzyLogic Nov 15, 12:33 pm |
For some reason I had it tagged as Friday, tho reviewing, I'd sent out a note indicating today / Monday. Ok no choice but to continue to accept orders. I can't very well impose an NMR when the player wasn't late.
From: Michael Sims
Sent: Mon 11/15/2010 11:57 AM
To: coebq(at)yahoo.com; hancockfc(at)yahoo.com; justin(at)darkenedpath.com; mjn82(at)yahoo.com; ross826(at)gmail.com; mlb767(at)aim.com; clockheardt(at)yahoo.com; fredrik(at)familjenblom.se
Cc: dc339
Subject: dc339 f216bc results!
A couple NMRs set the stage for this turn! Most notably, the great empire of Macedonia leaves it's massive army of troops idle for the turn... but were the Greeks privy to information the rest of us were not? For they take no losses anywhere as battles rage all around... and even manage - to build!
Scythians call an end to the rampaging and pillaging, and start a farm town in the foothills of Bithynia. (rumor has it in 2225 years Facebook will make a game out of this and make millions as people get addicted to feeding each others' pigs). The Scythian navy is sold off on Ebay, and emperor Fredrik retires a wealthy tribal leader.
Egyptians, thinking "let's settle down and just start up a farm town, maybe someday it'll turn into a game and make millions" get obliterated in Alexandria. Retreat to follow.
RETREATS and BUILDS by Wed:
Egypt: A Alex to Libyae or Sistrum, and Remove 1
Carthage: Remove 1
Macedonia: Build 1
Persia: Build 2
Scythia: Eliminated, remove Bithynia
ORDERS:
Carthage:
F O.Britannicus - O.Germanicus
F Numidian Sea - Carthage
F Syrtis Major - Cyrenaica (*Fails*)
A Saguntum - Hispania
A Gaetulia Supports F Syrtis Major - Cyrenaica
A Lugdunum Supports A Helvetii
F Lutetia Hold
A Helvetii Supports A Genua
Egypt: (*NMR*)
A Alexandria Hold (*Dislodged*)
A Memphis Hold
Germania:
F O.Germanicus - Britannia
F O.Hibernicus - O.Cantabricus
A Aliso Supports A Belgica
A Raetia Supports A Belgica
A Bojohaemum Supports A Belgica
A Belgica Hold
Macedonia: (*NMR*)
F Ionian Sea, no move received
F Mare Hadriaticum, no move received
F Aegaeum Mare, no move received
A Aqueleia, no move received
A Delphi, no move received
A Gelonus, no move received
F Kul Oba, no move received
A Pannonia, no move received
A Moesia, no move received
Persia:
F Lybian Sea Supports A Cyrenaica
F Gulf of Judea Supports A Sinai - Alexandria
F Lycian Sea Supports F Lybian Sea
A Maikop Supports F Kul Oba
A Asiatica - Armenia
A Sinai - Alexandria
A Cyrenaica Supports A Sinai - Alexandria (*Cut*)
Rome:
F Tyrhennian Sea - Punic Sea (*Bounce*)
F Punic Sea - Syrtis Major (*Fails*)
A Genua Supports A Helvetii
A Roma Supports A Genua
A Neapolis Hold
F Sicilia - Punic Sea (*Bounce*)
Scythia:
F Bithynia Hold
|
| dc339 f216bc results! (dc339) TheFinalCountdown Nov 15, 12:54 pm |
|
| DC 345: W1902 - untitled36 (Nov 15, 2010, 11:34 am) |
I will be out of town thursday the 18th through Sat the 27th. I expect to have internet access almost all of those days, but I'm never sure while traveling. So this is just a heads up/just in case, kind of email.
John
[Reply] |
| For GMs: Invalid order - Support Question - FuzzyLogic (Nov 15, 2010, 11:20 am) |
I see the logic, it just seems you should be able to determine if a unit's order is valid w/o regard for other units' positions. i.e. you can take a blank board, put a single unit on Lon and say "Is A Lon-Bel valid, legally written move order" and the answer is yes or no, not "it depends where other units are".
My answer would be YES, A Lon-Bel (with an army in Lon) IS a valid, legally written move order. The presence of other units in nearby sea zones may affect the success of this order, but not it's legality as a valid order.
Sure it "cannot be convoyed" by your rules below. But that doesn't mean ordering it to do so is illegal. The move just fails. Same thing w if someone actually in ENG fails to order the convoy order.
The impossibility of the move does not make it illegal or invalid.[Reply] |
| For GMs: Invalid order - Support Question (Community) Blueraider0 Nov 19, 01:49 am |
If that's the case, when would an order ever be invalid or illegal? I suppose attempting to move a unit that is not one's own, or ordering a unit that does not exist is invalid, But even then, you say "you can take a blank board, put a single unit on Lon and say "Is A Lon-Bel valid, legally written move order" and the answer is yes or no, not "it depends where other units are"." Therefore, it oughtn't depend on even where even the single unit is. If Lon to Bel is a valid order whether a convoy is possible or not, Lon to Bel should be valid whether there is a unit in Lon or not. Lon to Bel is a valid order - but there might not be a unit in London to move (or, a unit of a different Power). The written order is always going to be valid, even if it cannot be implemented.
But I suppose my definition of a valid move order should be stated. Forgive me if I've already used this analogy. I can write 2+2=5. It is a legitimate thing to write. All those symbols exist, and we all understand what is happening. That said, suspending any 1984 references, it is a false statement. Similarly, I can SAY my mother was Harriet Tubman, but she is not. But I can construct the sentence. It has no necessary root in reality, and requires none. Even dividing by zero CAN be written, even if it cannot be done. When something is written, it must be evaluated based on accepted definitions. Then the statement can be verified against known facts. 2+2=5 is false. But are Frxhhz more likely to eat a marshmallow than a Tredkfl? It's an unanswerable question, because two of the terms are undefined. It is not true or false, it's nonsensical.
A move order is X to Y. Perhaps X --> Y or X moves to Y. It is one province, some symbol or word indicating movement, and another province. The first province is the origin, the second the destination. Neptune to G4 is a valid move order, even though it makes absolutely no sense. It cannot be translated onto the board, but the order is not invalid. The best you could do is call it irrelevant.
Even moves traditionally understood as illegal If I am England, it is acceptable for the GM to assume I am ordering my own units. Therefore if I order a different power's unit, the GM has two options. I either mistakenly thought it was mine or am cunningly attempting to use it. In the first case, the order (let's say, Par to Bur) is valid, but irrelevant, because there is no English unit in Par. In the second, the order is irrelevant because I simply cannot under any circumstance order an opponent's unit. But the order is valid anyway, even if my intention was a direct violation of the rules. If I say "FRENCH Par to Bur," is that illegal? It's illegal for the MOVE to happen, but what about the order? That depends on your interpretation of the rule about ordering other units (I actually can't find it in the rulebook. Maybe it's not there, because the whole idea is so clearly against the rules. Battleship doesn't specify you can't yell Fire and then as your opponent panics you look at where there ships are....
The only move I'd say is definitely illegal is a move to Switzerland. Unlike Neptune or G4 or Mushroom Kingdom, the rules explicitly state Switzerland cannot be occupied. Actually, even then MOVING to Switzerland is not forbidden, just occupying it. So the move is only illegal if it would cause the player to occupy it. If two players move to Switzerland and bounce, technically Switzerland remained empty because of the usual game mechanics, not because of any special rules.
Another thought, a Power cannot dislodge or support the dislodgement of its own unit. Therefore Lon to Bel might be illegal because of other units. Let's say Bel to Ruh and Hol supports Lon to Bel and ECH convoys Lon to Bel, all owned by the same Power. Mun goes to Ruh and bounces Bel. Lon to Bel is now illegal, even if Pic and Bur also supported the move.
So except for situations explicitly stated in the rules, I see no reason to declare any moves illegal, and I find the phrase invalid to be misleading. The order is fine, it just may not work, whether for that turn (Bel to Lon but no convoy) or forever (Bel to Par). |
| For GMs: Invalid order - Support Question (Community) FuzzyLogic Nov 19, 08:48 am |
We're in agreement here, no? I can't quite tell these examples are so wacky.
Therefore Lon to Bel might be illegal because of other units.
Lon-Bel is valid even if you have your own army in Bel, cuz you could be ordering Bel-Ruh. If Bel-Ruh fails, then Lon-Bel will fail. But it was still a move order, and so an order of Wal S Lon would fail.
The manual does go to the extent to say that ordering a unit into another unit of yours does NOT cut the support. Therefore it is clearly legal to order a move that you absolutely know is impossible to succeed. (Bel-Ruh and Ruh S Mun) Bel-Ruh is still a move order, and Ruh support of Mun is not cut because of the "cannot cut your own support rule". It doesn't say you can't order the movment, just that the support is not cut.
Point is, ordering moves that are "impossible to have the movement succeed" are definitely not disallowed, therefore the impossibility of actual movement resulting from a move order does not rule the order invalid and revert it to Unordered / Hold.
If you order a unit to move, from one province to another, then you have ordered it to move.
If you order Par-Neptune, The GM should look and see if Neptune is a space in this variant. Maybe it is in the "Milky Way" variant. If he can't find a space by that name that is unambiguous (to the GM) then the entire order is ruled invalid and the unit is treated as if unordered.
If that's the case, when would an order ever be invalid or illegal?
Per above. Par-Neptune would be an invalid order. There is no province named Neptune.
I suppose attempting to move a unit that is not one's own, or ordering a unit that does not exist is invalid
Not sure why this example. A GM will skip over flavor text in analyzing orders, including things like "dear GM please accept these orders" - that is not an order in the game sense, it is normal discussion. Orders for anything other than your own units are ignored.
Therefore, it oughtn't depend on even where even the single unit is.
In determining if AN order is valid, sure, it doesn't matter. We can look and say "Is an order of F Con-Bul/ec" a valid way to order Con to the east coast of Bul. Yes it is. But we're talking about the more specific scenario of "what are valid orders for this unit" (which does happen to be somewhere). So IF I have an army in London, what are valid orders for it. That is what we're discussing.
The rest of your post is discussing semantics / word games, and we're not really concerned w the concept of GM trickery here. Like "Yesterday I took my Bell to London for a cleaning." and later alleging to the GM you intended Bel to Lon and the presence of other words before and after it were irrelevant. That's another discussion.
The question of this topic, is "Is A Lon-Bel" a move order in all cases, and I still (I think, agree w you) that it is. So be it that if there is no fleet nearby to convoy it, it is very likely to fail.
The order is fine, it just may not work, whether for that turn (Bel to Lon but no convoy) or forever (Bel to Par).
I think we're in agreement here.
|
| For GMs: Invalid order - Support Question (Community) AceRimmer Nov 19, 11:17 am |
Maslow, I'm going to agree with poobaloo here: your post is discussing semantics / word games.
Chiefly, you seem to be trying to define a difference between invalid and illegal. I'm guessing that your sense of order and precision compels you to discern between the two.
For my part... what I care about is: does the difference affect how an order is actually adjudicated? If it doesn't affect the adjudication, then to be blunt, I don't care.
So, perhaps, I should restate the issue at hand as I see it:
When should a GM declare that a unit's order is unadjudicable and therefore defaults to 'Unit Holds'?
And just to throw a log on the fire, I deny the premise of the following statement, which is alright, because there is no one correct answer (except that the GM's decision is final!):
"you can take a blank board, put a single unit on Lon and say "Is A Lon-Bel valid, legally written move order" and the answer is yes or no, not "it depends where other units are"
Adam |
| For GMs: Invalid order - Support Question (Community) FuzzyLogic Nov 19, 12:05 pm |
So, perhaps, I should restate the issue at hand as I see it:
When should a GM declare that a unit's order is unadjudicable and therefore defaults to 'Unit Holds'?
Ok, so what would your answer to the ? be?
The manual takes a stab at answering:
Any vague or invalid orders are ignored.
Isn't that pretty clear? Any order is enacted as written, unless it's either vague or invalid, in which case it's ignored.
A Lon-Bel. Vague? No. Invalid? No. So it is enacted as written. If a fleet is in ENG and it orders a convoy, the order may succeed. If not, it'll fail.
A Lon-Mun. Vague? No. Invalid? No. Impossible perhaps, but yet a properly written move order from one province to another which will certainly fail.
A Lon-Neptune. Vague? No. Invalid? Yes. (have no idea where Neptune is on this map). So it is ignored. Unordered unit is considered ordered to Hold.
A Lon-Nor. Vague? Yes. Nor could mean Norway or Norwegian Sea, so it is deemed vague and is ignored. Unordered unit is considered ordered to Hold.
(A GM may consider that one not vague if he considers that an army cannot go to the Norwegian Sea - but vagueness is purely whether it is vague to the GM)
F MAO-Spa. Vague? Yes. Could mean either coast, so ignored, Holds.
F Mar-Spa. Vague? No. Can only go to one coast, so it is not vague. Ordered appropriately.
A Lon-Bol. Vague? Certainly. Bul? Hol? Bel? Any of those would be a slight typo from a valid space, but there is no way to know the intent. Unit Holds.
A Lon-Bra. Vague? Tough one. There is no Bra on the map, but there is Bre, and that seems to make sense, but this would come down to GM interpretation if he considered this vague or not. Personally I think this should be a misorder, as Brest doesn't even contain an 'a' there's no reason to assume this is Bre. |
| Reply notification - AceRimmer (Nov 15, 2010, 10:56 am) |
"I would insist that the valid set of moves for a unit are not dependent on the lack or presence of other units. I think if you order A Lon-Pic, even if there is no fleet in ENG, it is as valid a move order as any."
That's how Maslow argued it in our conversation before posting it to the community, too.
"So are you saying, Adam, that if Lon-Pic, and no F ENG, you would order that as invalid and therefore Holds?"
Yes, I would.
I should note, this is different from the common GM practice of not interpreting a unit's order based on the *orders* of another unit. What I'm suggesting is that I'm interpreting a unit's order based on the *presence* of another unit.
In a manner, I think this interpretation is a corollary to that of ruling A Bel-Par as invalid (which has been discussed earlier in this forum thread). According to the rules:
"An Army can be ordered to move into an adjacent inland or coast province... [or] across water provinces from one coastal province to another via one or more Fleets. This is called a "convoy.""
By this, we note that Paris is neither adjacent to Belgium, nor is it an eligible destination for a convoy. Therefore, A Bel-Par is invalid, and the unit holds. (Note: we assume that the above rule is complete).
So, returning to the impossible convoy of A BEL-NAF when there is no fleet in MAO, the rules state:
"If Fleets occupy adjacent water provinces, an Army can be convoyed through all these water provinces on one turn, landing in a coastal province adjacent to the final Fleet in the chain."
Combining the two rules, and beginning with the first, we note that North Africa is not adjacent to Belgium, so a direct move is (obviously) impossible. However, they are both coastal provinces, so a convoy could be possible. Unfortunately, switching to the rule for convoys across several water provinces, we can clearly see that there is not a chain of fleets between BEL and NAF. Therefore, assuming this second rule is complete unto itself, an army _cannot_ be convoyed when there are no fleets present to make the convoy.
The second rule does not conflict with the first, because the first clearly refers to coast-to-coast movement as a convoy and implicitly assumes that all pre-conditions for a convoy have been satisfied.
At least, that's how I see it
In closing, I want to clarify:
A BEL-ECH-MAO-NAF is invalid if there is no fleet in MAO.
A BEL-ECH-MAO-NAF is valid if there are fleets in both ECH and MAO, even if those fleets do not attempt to convoy the army.[Reply] |
| For GMs: Invalid order - Support Question (Community) FuzzyLogic Nov 15, 11:20 am |
I see the logic, it just seems you should be able to determine if a unit's order is valid w/o regard for other units' positions. i.e. you can take a blank board, put a single unit on Lon and say "Is A Lon-Bel valid, legally written move order" and the answer is yes or no, not "it depends where other units are".
My answer would be YES, A Lon-Bel (with an army in Lon) IS a valid, legally written move order. The presence of other units in nearby sea zones may affect the success of this order, but not it's legality as a valid order.
Sure it "cannot be convoyed" by your rules below. But that doesn't mean ordering it to do so is illegal. The move just fails. Same thing w if someone actually in ENG fails to order the convoy order.
The impossibility of the move does not make it illegal or invalid. |
| For GMs: Invalid order - Support Question (Community) Blueraider0 Nov 19, 01:49 am |
If that's the case, when would an order ever be invalid or illegal? I suppose attempting to move a unit that is not one's own, or ordering a unit that does not exist is invalid, But even then, you say "you can take a blank board, put a single unit on Lon and say "Is A Lon-Bel valid, legally written move order" and the answer is yes or no, not "it depends where other units are"." Therefore, it oughtn't depend on even where even the single unit is. If Lon to Bel is a valid order whether a convoy is possible or not, Lon to Bel should be valid whether there is a unit in Lon or not. Lon to Bel is a valid order - but there might not be a unit in London to move (or, a unit of a different Power). The written order is always going to be valid, even if it cannot be implemented.
But I suppose my definition of a valid move order should be stated. Forgive me if I've already used this analogy. I can write 2+2=5. It is a legitimate thing to write. All those symbols exist, and we all understand what is happening. That said, suspending any 1984 references, it is a false statement. Similarly, I can SAY my mother was Harriet Tubman, but she is not. But I can construct the sentence. It has no necessary root in reality, and requires none. Even dividing by zero CAN be written, even if it cannot be done. When something is written, it must be evaluated based on accepted definitions. Then the statement can be verified against known facts. 2+2=5 is false. But are Frxhhz more likely to eat a marshmallow than a Tredkfl? It's an unanswerable question, because two of the terms are undefined. It is not true or false, it's nonsensical.
A move order is X to Y. Perhaps X --> Y or X moves to Y. It is one province, some symbol or word indicating movement, and another province. The first province is the origin, the second the destination. Neptune to G4 is a valid move order, even though it makes absolutely no sense. It cannot be translated onto the board, but the order is not invalid. The best you could do is call it irrelevant.
Even moves traditionally understood as illegal If I am England, it is acceptable for the GM to assume I am ordering my own units. Therefore if I order a different power's unit, the GM has two options. I either mistakenly thought it was mine or am cunningly attempting to use it. In the first case, the order (let's say, Par to Bur) is valid, but irrelevant, because there is no English unit in Par. In the second, the order is irrelevant because I simply cannot under any circumstance order an opponent's unit. But the order is valid anyway, even if my intention was a direct violation of the rules. If I say "FRENCH Par to Bur," is that illegal? It's illegal for the MOVE to happen, but what about the order? That depends on your interpretation of the rule about ordering other units (I actually can't find it in the rulebook. Maybe it's not there, because the whole idea is so clearly against the rules. Battleship doesn't specify you can't yell Fire and then as your opponent panics you look at where there ships are....
The only move I'd say is definitely illegal is a move to Switzerland. Unlike Neptune or G4 or Mushroom Kingdom, the rules explicitly state Switzerland cannot be occupied. Actually, even then MOVING to Switzerland is not forbidden, just occupying it. So the move is only illegal if it would cause the player to occupy it. If two players move to Switzerland and bounce, technically Switzerland remained empty because of the usual game mechanics, not because of any special rules.
Another thought, a Power cannot dislodge or support the dislodgement of its own unit. Therefore Lon to Bel might be illegal because of other units. Let's say Bel to Ruh and Hol supports Lon to Bel and ECH convoys Lon to Bel, all owned by the same Power. Mun goes to Ruh and bounces Bel. Lon to Bel is now illegal, even if Pic and Bur also supported the move.
So except for situations explicitly stated in the rules, I see no reason to declare any moves illegal, and I find the phrase invalid to be misleading. The order is fine, it just may not work, whether for that turn (Bel to Lon but no convoy) or forever (Bel to Par). |
| For GMs: Invalid order - Support Question (Community) FuzzyLogic Nov 19, 08:48 am |
We're in agreement here, no? I can't quite tell these examples are so wacky.
Therefore Lon to Bel might be illegal because of other units.
Lon-Bel is valid even if you have your own army in Bel, cuz you could be ordering Bel-Ruh. If Bel-Ruh fails, then Lon-Bel will fail. But it was still a move order, and so an order of Wal S Lon would fail.
The manual does go to the extent to say that ordering a unit into another unit of yours does NOT cut the support. Therefore it is clearly legal to order a move that you absolutely know is impossible to succeed. (Bel-Ruh and Ruh S Mun) Bel-Ruh is still a move order, and Ruh support of Mun is not cut because of the "cannot cut your own support rule". It doesn't say you can't order the movment, just that the support is not cut.
Point is, ordering moves that are "impossible to have the movement succeed" are definitely not disallowed, therefore the impossibility of actual movement resulting from a move order does not rule the order invalid and revert it to Unordered / Hold.
If you order a unit to move, from one province to another, then you have ordered it to move.
If you order Par-Neptune, The GM should look and see if Neptune is a space in this variant. Maybe it is in the "Milky Way" variant. If he can't find a space by that name that is unambiguous (to the GM) then the entire order is ruled invalid and the unit is treated as if unordered.
If that's the case, when would an order ever be invalid or illegal?
Per above. Par-Neptune would be an invalid order. There is no province named Neptune.
I suppose attempting to move a unit that is not one's own, or ordering a unit that does not exist is invalid
Not sure why this example. A GM will skip over flavor text in analyzing orders, including things like "dear GM please accept these orders" - that is not an order in the game sense, it is normal discussion. Orders for anything other than your own units are ignored.
Therefore, it oughtn't depend on even where even the single unit is.
In determining if AN order is valid, sure, it doesn't matter. We can look and say "Is an order of F Con-Bul/ec" a valid way to order Con to the east coast of Bul. Yes it is. But we're talking about the more specific scenario of "what are valid orders for this unit" (which does happen to be somewhere). So IF I have an army in London, what are valid orders for it. That is what we're discussing.
The rest of your post is discussing semantics / word games, and we're not really concerned w the concept of GM trickery here. Like "Yesterday I took my Bell to London for a cleaning." and later alleging to the GM you intended Bel to Lon and the presence of other words before and after it were irrelevant. That's another discussion.
The question of this topic, is "Is A Lon-Bel" a move order in all cases, and I still (I think, agree w you) that it is. So be it that if there is no fleet nearby to convoy it, it is very likely to fail.
The order is fine, it just may not work, whether for that turn (Bel to Lon but no convoy) or forever (Bel to Par).
I think we're in agreement here.
|
| For GMs: Invalid order - Support Question (Community) AceRimmer Nov 19, 11:17 am |
Maslow, I'm going to agree with poobaloo here: your post is discussing semantics / word games.
Chiefly, you seem to be trying to define a difference between invalid and illegal. I'm guessing that your sense of order and precision compels you to discern between the two.
For my part... what I care about is: does the difference affect how an order is actually adjudicated? If it doesn't affect the adjudication, then to be blunt, I don't care.
So, perhaps, I should restate the issue at hand as I see it:
When should a GM declare that a unit's order is unadjudicable and therefore defaults to 'Unit Holds'?
And just to throw a log on the fire, I deny the premise of the following statement, which is alright, because there is no one correct answer (except that the GM's decision is final!):
"you can take a blank board, put a single unit on Lon and say "Is A Lon-Bel valid, legally written move order" and the answer is yes or no, not "it depends where other units are"
Adam |
| For GMs: Invalid order - Support Question (Community) FuzzyLogic Nov 19, 12:05 pm |
So, perhaps, I should restate the issue at hand as I see it:
When should a GM declare that a unit's order is unadjudicable and therefore defaults to 'Unit Holds'?
Ok, so what would your answer to the ? be?
The manual takes a stab at answering:
Any vague or invalid orders are ignored.
Isn't that pretty clear? Any order is enacted as written, unless it's either vague or invalid, in which case it's ignored.
A Lon-Bel. Vague? No. Invalid? No. So it is enacted as written. If a fleet is in ENG and it orders a convoy, the order may succeed. If not, it'll fail.
A Lon-Mun. Vague? No. Invalid? No. Impossible perhaps, but yet a properly written move order from one province to another which will certainly fail.
A Lon-Neptune. Vague? No. Invalid? Yes. (have no idea where Neptune is on this map). So it is ignored. Unordered unit is considered ordered to Hold.
A Lon-Nor. Vague? Yes. Nor could mean Norway or Norwegian Sea, so it is deemed vague and is ignored. Unordered unit is considered ordered to Hold.
(A GM may consider that one not vague if he considers that an army cannot go to the Norwegian Sea - but vagueness is purely whether it is vague to the GM)
F MAO-Spa. Vague? Yes. Could mean either coast, so ignored, Holds.
F Mar-Spa. Vague? No. Can only go to one coast, so it is not vague. Ordered appropriately.
A Lon-Bol. Vague? Certainly. Bul? Hol? Bel? Any of those would be a slight typo from a valid space, but there is no way to know the intent. Unit Holds.
A Lon-Bra. Vague? Tough one. There is no Bra on the map, but there is Bre, and that seems to make sense, but this would come down to GM interpretation if he considered this vague or not. Personally I think this should be a misorder, as Brest doesn't even contain an 'a' there's no reason to assume this is Bre. |
| DC 345: W1902 - AceRimmer (Nov 15, 2010, 10:22 am) |
I think there's going to be a lot of guessing this year in and around the North Sea.
Let's have Spring 1903 on Friday at 3:00 CST (21:00 GMT). If any of you are late, the adjudication may wind up waiting all weekend long.
DRE:
Remove F Ionian Sea
Adaria:
Build A Liverpool
The_One_Who_Will_Win:
Remove A Ukraine
Remove F Helgoland Bight
Hembria:
Build F Holland
Trigspor:
Build A Trieste[Reply] |
| DC 345: W1902 (dc345) untitled36 Nov 15, 11:34 am |
I will be out of town thursday the 18th through Sat the 27th. I expect to have internet access almost all of those days, but I'm never sure while traveling. So this is just a heads up/just in case, kind of email.
John
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