| (DC 324) A Stab in the Dark *** GAME OVER *** - Corrino (Aug 10, 2010, 9:12 am) |
Should I mention that I tried to get Mike to play and he passed?
Now there's a man who wears his target with pride. No anonymous gunboat games for him!
From: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com>
To: Michael Sims <mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net>; C Morse <camorse22(at)yahoo.com>; Dirk Knemeyer <dirk(at)knemeyer.com>; Jeffrey Krause <diplomacy(at)jeffreyk.com>; Michael Thompson <psychosis(at)sky.com>; Paul Russell <jehannum_raver(at)yahoo.com>; Scott Hickey <thase+dipcorp(at)dalarin.net>; Steve Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>
Cc: dc324 <dc324(at)diplomaticcorp.com>; Stephen Worthy <stephenworthy(at)rocketmail.com>
Sent: Tue, August 10, 2010 8:32:23 AM
Subject: Re: (DC 324) A Stab in the Dark *** GAME OVER ***
No argument here on that!!
From: Michael Sims <mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com>; C Morse <camorse22(at)yahoo.com>; Dirk Knemeyer <dirk(at)knemeyer.com>; Jeffrey Krause <diplomacy(at)jeffreyk.com>; Michael Thompson <psychosis(at)sky.com>; Paul Russell <jehannum_raver(at)yahoo.com>; Scott Hickey <thase+dipcorp(at)dalarin.net>; Steve Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>
Cc: dc324 <dc324(at)diplomaticcorp.com>; Stephen Worthy <stephenworthy(at)rocketmail.com>
Sent: Tue, August 10, 2010 8:23:40 AM
Subject: RE: (DC 324) A Stab in the Dark *** GAME OVER ***
Hey gotta share the target when you can. I certainly dont mind if someone besides me carries that thing for a while, it's heavy! 
From: Packrat [mailto:brn2dip(at)yahoo.com]
Sent: Tue 8/10/2010 7:22 AM
To: Michael Sims; C Morse; Dirk Knemeyer; Jeffrey Krause; Michael Thompson; Paul Russell; Scott Hickey; Steve Lytton
Cc: dc324; Stephen Worthy
Subject: Re: (DC 324) A Stab in the Dark *** GAME OVER ***
NICE! Why don't ya just paint a target on the guys back while you're at it.
That's part of what fueled my slow exodus away from the hobby. Far too
many games wound up being "get Packrat" fests. And, no, it isn't paranoia,
I've had more than one player tell me that they came after me because of
the either the reputation or, in the case of DC, because of the ratings.
Congratulations for sure, and it is certainly IS an incredible record, but
when you point it out, you paint the target.
From: Michael Sims <mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net>
To: C Morse <camorse22(at)yahoo.com>; Dirk Knemeyer <dirk(at)knemeyer.com>; Jeffrey Krause <diplomacy(at)jeffreyk.com>; Michael Thompson <psychosis(at)sky.com>; Paul Russell <jehannum_raver(at)yahoo.com>; Scott Packrat Troemel <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com>; Scott Hickey <thase+dipcorp(at)dalarin.net>; Steve Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>
Cc: dc324 <dc324(at)diplomaticcorp.com>; Stephen Worthy <stephenworthy(at)rocketmail.com>
Sent: Tue, August 10, 2010 8:13:38 AM
Subject: RE: (DC 324) A Stab in the Dark *** GAME OVER ***
Wow a 4th solo for Scott in 8 games played. Incredible record. Congrats!
-mike
From: C Morse [mailto:camorse22(at)yahoo.com]
Sent: Mon 8/9/2010 9:37 PM
To: Chris Morse; Dirk Knemeyer; Jeffrey Krause; Michael Thompson; Paul Russell; Scott Packrat Troemel; Scott Hickey; Steve Lytton
Cc: dc324; Michael Sims; Stephen Worthy
Subject: (DC 324) A Stab in the Dark *** GAME OVER ***
GENTLEMEN, WE HAVE A WINNER!
Congratulations to Scott Hickey, aka Lequinian, for his solo victory as Turkey in A Stab in the Dark, the inaugural Gunboat Stab! game on the DC site.
Bittersweet congratulations are also in order for our second-place finisher, Paul Russell, who played a heck of a game himself. Paul, as England, just missed derailing the Turkish locomotive that in the early-to-mid-game seemed on track to an easy triumph.
Scott used a ton of skill throughout the game and just enough intuition in the final season to thwart England's final gambit. It was a fifty-fifty proposition in the last Fall season. Turkey had four units in defense against England's four units attacking. Would it be three on Munich and one on Berlin, or two for each? Scott guessed the latter and he guessed correctly, managing to bounce the English attacks in both supply centers
and to claim his 18th dot in Munich while Berlin was left open.
Here are the orders that decided it all. (The complete set of orders can be found at the end of this message.)
England:
F Baltic Sea Supports A Kiel - Berlin
A Burgundy - Munich (*Bounce*)
A Kiel - Berlin (*Bounce*)
A Ruhr Supports A Burgundy - Munich
Turkey:
A Bohemia - Munich (*Bounce*)
A Munich - Berlin (*Bounce*)
A Silesia Supports A Munich - Berlin
A Tyrolia Supports A Bohemia - Munich
Tooth and nail to the end, I do believe that we would have had a stalemate if there had been no victory this year. As you can see from the attached maps, Turkey had just filled into Prussia, closing the last small gap in the two players' lines. I'm sure Paul is kicking himself for allowing Turkey to take Munich in the Spring, but hey, he took a calculated risk and it just didn't work. No shame there.
Cast of Characters (aka The Stab! All-Stars)
Austria - Scott "Packrat" Troemel - Eliminated 1903
England - Paul "Jehannum" Russell - Survival (16 SC)
France - Stephen "Deathblade Penguin" Lytton - Eliminated 1911
Germany - Jeffrey Krauss - Eliminated 1906
Italy - Michael "Psychosis" Thompson - Eliminated 1911
Russia - Dirk Knemeyer - Eliminated 1909
Turkey - Scott "Lequinian" Hickey - Solo Victory 1914 (18 SC)
List of Attachments
DC324_F14_Moves.gif ... so you can see how the last turn played out
DC324_F14_Game_Over.gif ... the final position showing Turkey's victory
DC324_F14.dpy ... the Realpolitik file. You can watch the whole game play out in a slideshow!
DC 324 Report.odt ... an open office word processing document that I kept for my own sake. Don't know how many of you
will be able to open it, but if you can, you'll see how I tracked all the game moves -- what was seen, what was hidden, the complete support orders, etc.
GM's EOG Statement
I was first introduced to Stab! a few years back by a gentleman GM named Stephen Worthy (henceforth SW -- Hi Stephen!) from the Cat23 Diplomacy group. I was completely hooked after one turn. I liked gunboat. I really liked the semi-blind aspect, which let me try to be tricky in the dark and which really engaged my deductive powers trying to figure out where everyone's units were. I did rather well at it, too, which no doubt contributed to my enjoyment.
So, here it is a few years later and I decide that not only is it time I gave back and GM a game, but it's also my chance to revive Stab! on a new forum and find out whether I can get a bunch of new players hooked
on it, too. Judging from the quickness with which the game filled up there was clearly strong interest. Not only strong interest, but a very strong group of players. I remember telling Mike Sims that I had a veritable all-star lineup. Even our "new face," Jeff Krauss, was fast proving his worth (just check out his standing in WB10), so I was expecting a great game and I'm very happy to say I wasn't disappointed.
Of course the GM has a uniquely omniscient perspective in a game like Stab! It was great fun to be able to watch each player tackle the problem of how to maneuver about in the dark. Russia and England and France, to name three examples, took advantage of the dark to quickly expand and attack opponents in non-traditional ways. Others were very conservative. Turkey, for instance, was very cautious. He couldn't know this, of course, but he repeatedly spent turns supporting himself in
place against imaginary threats. If he had pushed on more boldly, I think there was a good chance he could have won the game easily 4 or 5 years earlier. Scroll through the Realpolitik file and see if you agree.
I don't want to step on the toes of the players' EOGS so I'm not going to speculate too much more on individual play. In general terms, though, it was signficant, I think, that it was our two witches who thrived best. In a somewhat chaotic world, is it a coincidence that it was the two countries considered highest in defensive strength that dominated in this game?
Think about that for a minute, and then check out these statistics. Combining this result with the outcomes from the four games SW has run, these are our outcomes:
CAT23 926: Russian win (year ??)
CAT23 1004: Turkey, England, France draw (year ??)
CAT23 1232: Turkish win (1912, 18 SC)
CAT23 1233: Turkish win (1907, 20 SC)DC 324: Turkish win (1914, 18 SC)
That's three Turkish solos out of five games. I know, I know. It's not a large sample size, but still, it makes you want to look a little closer.
In 1233, Turkey was aided greatly by his neighbors Russia and Austria. The former opened by sending 3 of his 4 units towards Scandinavia, while the latter opened against Italy and Russia, ignoring Serbia and Greece altogether in 1901. Turkey roared out of the gate and was never checked as he rolled to a quick and decisive victory.
The other two Turkish victories were not that kind of win. Both were more typical examples of blind gunboat games, where play is understandably less efficient than in sighted games. However, it still seems fair to me to wonder whether or not that type of game environment might just offer inherent advantages to some
countries. I'm sure we could have a wonderful debate on that very topic. (I know because I have.) My current feeling, though, is that rather than debate the topic, I'd like to see more data. I'd like to see more games completed AND ... I'd like to see more games played where the results given above are known ahead of time because, as we all know, we do adjust our games to compensate for the strengths and weaknesses of the various countries according to our knowledge of their past performance. My guess is that if I were to host another game of Stab! on DC within the next few months that Turkey would start the game with a giant bullseye on his back. And you know what? That's okay. If we play enough of these games we'll eventually build up a new set of expectations and strategies to deal with the situation that not all countries are created equal in Stab! land. Heck, they're not equal in standard Dip,
so we've no right to complain if Stab! skews the balance in different ways than we're used to. Right?
Players EOG Statements
You can post your EOG statements directly to the game forum, or just email to all the people on this list and copy the dc324 forum as I've done on this message. If you choose to just reply to this message, please do us all the favor of deleting this original message text from your entry.
I know that Germany has already written his EOGS and I hope that more of you will follow suit. I'd love to hear about how you stabbed in the dark and tried to keep from getting stabbed. Comments on the game management (my part) and the game rules are welcome, too. As mentioned some time ago, I intend to expand quite a bit on Stab! entry the DipWiki. I'll need some time to collect all my notes, but when I do I will
send them to all of you for your review and comments.
Farewell
I suppose as Diplomacy games go this one played out pretty quickly. Fourteen years in fifteen weeks is certainly no record, but I have to say it felt like longer. I can put out a typically gunboat adjudication in about 30 minutes. The BEST I ever did in Stab! was an hour, and typically it was 1.5 to 2 hours by the time I'd finished.
Rest assured that it was all a labor of love and I'd do it again. Not right away, but again. Thanks to all the players who did a wonderful job of keeping to -- and ahead of, in most cases -- the deadlines. One NMR in 14 years is pretty darn good, in my book. I hope you all enjoyed yourselves as much as I did hosting.
Cheers,
Chris
Orders as resolved for Fall
1914.
=============================================
England:
F Baltic Sea Supports A Kiel - Berlin
F Barents Sea Supports F St Petersburg(sc)
A Belgium - Norway
A Burgundy - Munich (*Bounce*)
F English Channel Hold
F Gulf of Lyon Supports A Marseilles - Piedmont
A Holland - Kiel (*Fails*)
A Kiel - Berlin (*Bounce*)
A Marseilles - Piedmont (*Fails*)
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean Hold
F North Africa Supports F Tunis
F North Sea Convoys A Belgium - Norway
A Ruhr Supports A Burgundy - Munich
F St Petersburg(sc) Hold
F Tunis Supports F Western Mediterranean - Tyrrhenian Sea (*Cut*)
F Western Mediterranean - Tyrrhenian Sea (*Fails*)
Turkey:
F Adriatic Sea - Ionian Sea (*Fails*)
A Armenia - STE (*Invalid*)
A Bohemia - Munich (*Bounce*)
A Bulgaria - Rumania
A Galicia - Warsaw
F Ionian Sea - Tunis (*Fails*)
A Livonia Supports A Moscow - St Petersburg
A Moscow - St Petersburg
(*Fails*)
A Munich - Berlin (*Bounce*)
F Naples Supports F Tyrrhenian Sea
A Piedmont Supports A Tuscany (*Cut*)
F Rome Supports F Tyrrhenian Sea
A Silesia Supports A Munich - Berlin
A Tuscany Supports A Piedmont
A Tyrolia Supports A Bohemia - Munich
F Tyrrhenian Sea Supports F Ionian Sea - Tunis (*Cut*)
A Warsaw - Prussia
=============================================[Reply] |
| (DC 324) A Stab in the Dark *** GAME OVER *** - packrat (Aug 10, 2010, 7:32 am) |
No argument here on that!!
From: Michael Sims <mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com>; C Morse <camorse22(at)yahoo.com>; Dirk Knemeyer <dirk(at)knemeyer.com>; Jeffrey Krause <diplomacy(at)jeffreyk.com>; Michael Thompson <psychosis(at)sky.com>; Paul Russell <jehannum_raver(at)yahoo.com>; Scott Hickey <thase+dipcorp(at)dalarin.net>; Steve Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>
Cc: dc324
<dc324(at)diplomaticcorp.com>; Stephen Worthy <stephenworthy(at)rocketmail.com>
Sent: Tue, August 10, 2010 8:23:40 AM
Subject: RE: (DC 324) A Stab in the Dark *** GAME OVER ***
Hey gotta share the target when you can. I certainly dont mind if someone besides me carries that thing for a while, it's heavy!
From: Packrat [mailto:brn2dip(at)yahoo.com]
Sent: Tue 8/10/2010 7:22 AM
To: Michael Sims; C Morse; Dirk Knemeyer; Jeffrey Krause; Michael Thompson; Paul Russell; Scott Hickey; Steve Lytton
Cc: dc324; Stephen Worthy
Subject: Re: (DC 324) A Stab in the Dark *** GAME OVER ***
NICE! Why don't ya just paint a target on the guys back while you're at it.
That's part of what fueled my slow exodus away from the hobby. Far too
many games wound up being "get Packrat" fests. And, no, it isn't paranoia,
I've had more than one player tell me that they came after me because of
the either the reputation or, in the case of DC, because of the ratings.
Congratulations for sure, and it is certainly IS an incredible record, but
when you point it out, you paint the target.
From: Michael Sims <mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net>
To: C Morse <camorse22(at)yahoo.com>; Dirk Knemeyer <dirk(at)knemeyer.com>; Jeffrey Krause <diplomacy(at)jeffreyk.com>; Michael Thompson <psychosis(at)sky.com>; Paul Russell <jehannum_raver(at)yahoo.com>; Scott Packrat Troemel <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com>; Scott Hickey <thase+dipcorp(at)dalarin.net>; Steve Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>
Cc: dc324 <dc324(at)diplomaticcorp.com>; Stephen Worthy <stephenworthy(at)rocketmail.com>
Sent: Tue, August 10, 2010 8:13:38 AM
Subject: RE: (DC 324) A Stab in the Dark *** GAME OVER ***
Wow a 4th solo for Scott in 8 games played. Incredible record. Congrats!
-mike
From: C Morse [mailto:camorse22(at)yahoo.com]
Sent: Mon 8/9/2010 9:37 PM
To: Chris Morse; Dirk Knemeyer; Jeffrey Krause; Michael Thompson; Paul Russell; Scott Packrat Troemel; Scott Hickey; Steve Lytton
Cc: dc324; Michael Sims; Stephen Worthy
Subject: (DC 324) A Stab in the Dark *** GAME OVER ***
GENTLEMEN, WE HAVE A WINNER!
Congratulations to Scott Hickey, aka Lequinian, for his solo victory as Turkey in A Stab in the Dark, the inaugural Gunboat Stab! game on the DC site.
Bittersweet congratulations are also in order for our second-place finisher, Paul Russell, who played a heck of a game himself. Paul, as England, just missed derailing the Turkish locomotive that in the early-to-mid-game seemed on track to an easy triumph.
Scott used a ton of skill throughout the game and just enough intuition in the final season to thwart England's final gambit. It was a fifty-fifty proposition in the last Fall season. Turkey had four units in defense against England's four units attacking. Would it be three on Munich and one on Berlin, or two for each? Scott guessed the latter and he guessed correctly, managing to bounce the English attacks in both supply centers
and to claim his 18th dot in Munich while Berlin was left open.
Here are the orders that decided it all. (The complete set of orders can be found at the end of this message.)
England:
F Baltic Sea Supports A Kiel - Berlin
A Burgundy - Munich (*Bounce*)
A Kiel - Berlin (*Bounce*)
A Ruhr Supports A Burgundy - Munich
Turkey:
A Bohemia - Munich (*Bounce*)
A Munich - Berlin (*Bounce*)
A Silesia Supports A Munich - Berlin
A Tyrolia Supports A Bohemia - Munich
Tooth and nail to the end, I do believe that we would have had a stalemate if there had been no victory this year. As you can see from the attached maps, Turkey had just filled into Prussia, closing the last small gap in the two players' lines. I'm sure Paul is kicking himself for allowing Turkey to take Munich in the Spring, but hey, he took a calculated risk and it just didn't work. No shame there.
Cast of Characters (aka The Stab! All-Stars)
Austria - Scott "Packrat" Troemel - Eliminated 1903
England - Paul "Jehannum" Russell - Survival (16 SC)
France - Stephen "Deathblade Penguin" Lytton - Eliminated 1911
Germany - Jeffrey Krauss - Eliminated 1906
Italy - Michael "Psychosis" Thompson - Eliminated 1911
Russia - Dirk Knemeyer - Eliminated 1909
Turkey - Scott "Lequinian" Hickey - Solo Victory 1914 (18 SC)
List of Attachments
DC324_F14_Moves.gif ... so you can see how the last turn played out
DC324_F14_Game_Over.gif ... the final position showing Turkey's victory
DC324_F14.dpy ... the Realpolitik file. You can watch the whole game play out in a slideshow!
DC 324 Report.odt ... an open office word processing document that I kept for my own sake. Don't know how many of you
will be able to open it, but if you can, you'll see how I tracked all the game moves -- what was seen, what was hidden, the complete support orders, etc.
GM's EOG Statement
I was first introduced to Stab! a few years back by a gentleman GM named Stephen Worthy (henceforth SW -- Hi Stephen!) from the Cat23 Diplomacy group. I was completely hooked after one turn. I liked gunboat. I really liked the semi-blind aspect, which let me try to be tricky in the dark and which really engaged my deductive powers trying to figure out where everyone's units were. I did rather well at it, too, which no doubt contributed to my enjoyment.
So, here it is a few years later and I decide that not only is it time I gave back and GM a game, but it's also my chance to revive Stab! on a new forum and find out whether I can get a bunch of new players
hooked on it, too. Judging from the quickness with which the game filled up there was clearly strong interest. Not only strong interest, but a very strong group of players. I remember telling Mike Sims that I had a veritable all-star lineup. Even our "new face," Jeff Krauss, was fast proving his worth (just check out his standing in WB10), so I was expecting a great game and I'm very happy to say I wasn't disappointed.
Of course the GM has a uniquely omniscient perspective in a game like Stab! It was great fun to be able to watch each player tackle the problem of how to maneuver about in the dark. Russia and England and France, to name three examples, took advantage of the dark to quickly expand and attack opponents in non-traditional ways. Others were very conservative. Turkey, for instance, was very cautious. He couldn't know this, of course, but he repeatedly spent turns supporting himself
in place against imaginary threats. If he had pushed on more boldly, I think there was a good chance he could have won the game easily 4 or 5 years earlier. Scroll through the Realpolitik file and see if you agree.
I don't want to step on the toes of the players' EOGS so I'm not going to speculate too much more on individual play. In general terms, though, it was signficant, I think, that it was our two witches who thrived best. In a somewhat chaotic world, is it a coincidence that it was the two countries considered highest in defensive strength that dominated in this game?
Think about that for a minute, and then check out these statistics. Combining this result with the outcomes from the four games SW has run, these are our outcomes:
CAT23 926: Russian win (year ??)
CAT23 1004: Turkey, England, France draw (year ??)
CAT23 1232: Turkish win (1912, 18 SC)
CAT23 1233: Turkish win (1907, 20 SC)DC 324: Turkish win (1914, 18 SC)
That's three Turkish solos out of five games. I know, I know. It's not a large sample size, but still, it makes you want to look a little closer.
In 1233, Turkey was aided greatly by his neighbors Russia and Austria. The former opened by sending 3 of his 4 units towards Scandinavia, while the latter opened against Italy and Russia, ignoring Serbia and Greece altogether in 1901. Turkey roared out of the gate and was never checked as he rolled to a quick and decisive victory.
The other two Turkish victories were not that kind of win. Both were more typical examples of blind gunboat games, where play is understandably less efficient than in sighted games. However, it still seems fair to me to wonder whether or not that type of game environment might just offer inherent advantages to some
countries. I'm sure we could have a wonderful debate on that very topic. (I know because I have.) My current feeling, though, is that rather than debate the topic, I'd like to see more data. I'd like to see more games completed AND ... I'd like to see more games played where the results given above are known ahead of time because, as we all know, we do adjust our games to compensate for the strengths and weaknesses of the various countries according to our knowledge of their past performance. My guess is that if I were to host another game of Stab! on DC within the next few months that Turkey would start the game with a giant bullseye on his back. And you know what? That's okay. If we play enough of these games we'll eventually build up a new set of expectations and strategies to deal with the situation that not all countries are created equal in Stab! land. Heck, they're not equal in standard Dip,
so we've no right to complain if Stab! skews the balance in different ways than we're used to. Right?
Players EOG Statements
You can post your EOG statements directly to the game forum, or just email to all the people on this list and copy the dc324 forum as I've done on this message. If you choose to just reply to this message, please do us all the favor of deleting this original message text from your entry.
I know that Germany has already written his EOGS and I hope that more of you will follow suit. I'd love to hear about how you stabbed in the dark and tried to keep from getting stabbed. Comments on the game management (my part) and the game rules are welcome, too. As mentioned some time ago, I intend to expand quite a bit on Stab! entry the DipWiki. I'll need some time to collect all my notes, but when I do I
will send them to all of you for your review and comments.
Farewell
I suppose as Diplomacy games go this one played out pretty quickly. Fourteen years in fifteen weeks is certainly no record, but I have to say it felt like longer. I can put out a typically gunboat adjudication in about 30 minutes. The BEST I ever did in Stab! was an hour, and typically it was 1.5 to 2 hours by the time I'd finished.
Rest assured that it was all a labor of love and I'd do it again. Not right away, but again. Thanks to all the players who did a wonderful job of keeping to -- and ahead of, in most cases -- the deadlines. One NMR in 14 years is pretty darn good, in my book. I hope you all enjoyed yourselves as much as I did hosting.
Cheers,
Chris
Orders as resolved for Fall
1914.
=============================================
England:
F Baltic Sea Supports A Kiel - Berlin
F Barents Sea Supports F St Petersburg(sc)
A Belgium - Norway
A Burgundy - Munich (*Bounce*)
F English Channel Hold
F Gulf of Lyon Supports A Marseilles - Piedmont
A Holland - Kiel (*Fails*)
A Kiel - Berlin (*Bounce*)
A Marseilles - Piedmont (*Fails*)
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean Hold
F North Africa Supports F Tunis
F North Sea Convoys A Belgium - Norway
A Ruhr Supports A Burgundy - Munich
F St Petersburg(sc) Hold
F Tunis Supports F Western Mediterranean - Tyrrhenian Sea (*Cut*)
F Western Mediterranean - Tyrrhenian Sea (*Fails*)
Turkey:
F Adriatic Sea - Ionian Sea (*Fails*)
A Armenia - STE (*Invalid*)
A Bohemia - Munich (*Bounce*)
A Bulgaria - Rumania
A Galicia - Warsaw
F Ionian Sea - Tunis (*Fails*)
A Livonia Supports A Moscow - St Petersburg
A Moscow - St Petersburg
(*Fails*)
A Munich - Berlin (*Bounce*)
F Naples Supports F Tyrrhenian Sea
A Piedmont Supports A Tuscany (*Cut*)
F Rome Supports F Tyrrhenian Sea
A Silesia Supports A Munich - Berlin
A Tuscany Supports A Piedmont
A Tyrolia Supports A Bohemia - Munich
F Tyrrhenian Sea Supports F Ionian Sea - Tunis (*Cut*)
A Warsaw - Prussia
=============================================[Reply] |
| (DC 324) A Stab in the Dark *** GAME OVER *** - FuzzyLogic (Aug 10, 2010, 7:23 am) |
Hey gotta share the target when you can. I certainly dont mind if someone besides me carries that thing for a while, it's heavy!
From: Packrat [mailto:brn2dip(at)yahoo.com]
Sent: Tue 8/10/2010 7:22 AM
To: Michael Sims; C Morse; Dirk Knemeyer; Jeffrey Krause; Michael Thompson; Paul Russell; Scott Hickey; Steve Lytton
Cc: dc324; Stephen Worthy
Subject: Re: (DC 324) A Stab in the Dark *** GAME OVER ***
NICE! Why don't ya just paint a target on the guys back while you're at it.
That's part of what fueled my slow exodus away from the hobby. Far too
many games wound up being "get Packrat" fests. And, no, it isn't paranoia,
I've had more than one player tell me that they came after me because of
the either the reputation or, in the case of DC, because of the ratings.
Congratulations for sure, and it is certainly IS an incredible record, but
when you point it out, you paint the target.
From: Michael Sims <mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net>
To: C Morse <camorse22(at)yahoo.com>; Dirk Knemeyer <dirk(at)knemeyer.com>; Jeffrey Krause <diplomacy(at)jeffreyk.com>; Michael Thompson <psychosis(at)sky.com>; Paul Russell <jehannum_raver(at)yahoo.com>; Scott Packrat Troemel <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com>; Scott Hickey <thase+dipcorp(at)dalarin.net>; Steve Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>
Cc: dc324 <dc324(at)diplomaticcorp.com>; Stephen Worthy <stephenworthy(at)rocketmail.com>
Sent: Tue, August 10, 2010 8:13:38 AM
Subject: RE: (DC 324) A Stab in the Dark *** GAME OVER ***
Wow a 4th solo for Scott in 8 games played. Incredible record. Congrats!
-mike
From: C Morse [mailto:camorse22(at)yahoo.com]
Sent: Mon 8/9/2010 9:37 PM
To: Chris Morse; Dirk Knemeyer; Jeffrey Krause; Michael Thompson; Paul Russell; Scott Packrat Troemel; Scott Hickey; Steve Lytton
Cc: dc324; Michael Sims; Stephen Worthy
Subject: (DC 324) A Stab in the Dark *** GAME OVER ***
GENTLEMEN, WE HAVE A WINNER!
Congratulations to Scott Hickey, aka Lequinian, for his solo victory as Turkey in A Stab in the Dark, the inaugural Gunboat Stab! game on the DC site.
Bittersweet congratulations are also in order for our second-place finisher, Paul Russell, who played a heck of a game himself. Paul, as England, just missed derailing the Turkish locomotive that in the early-to-mid-game seemed on track to an easy triumph.
Scott used a ton of skill throughout the game and just enough intuition in the final season to thwart England's final gambit. It was a fifty-fifty proposition in the last Fall season. Turkey had four units in defense against England's four units attacking. Would it be three on Munich and one on Berlin, or two for each? Scott guessed the latter and he guessed correctly, managing to bounce the English attacks in both supply centers and to claim his 18th dot in Munich while Berlin was left open.
Here are the orders that decided it all. (The complete set of orders can be found at the end of this message.)
England:
F Baltic Sea Supports A Kiel - Berlin
A Burgundy - Munich (*Bounce*)
A Kiel - Berlin (*Bounce*)
A Ruhr Supports A Burgundy - Munich
Turkey:
A Bohemia - Munich (*Bounce*)
A Munich - Berlin (*Bounce*)
A Silesia Supports A Munich - Berlin
A Tyrolia Supports A Bohemia - Munich
Tooth and nail to the end, I do believe that we would have had a stalemate if there had been no victory this year. As you can see from the attached maps, Turkey had just filled into Prussia, closing the last small gap in the two players' lines. I'm sure Paul is kicking himself for allowing Turkey to take Munich in the Spring, but hey, he took a calculated risk and it just didn't work. No shame there.
Cast of Characters (aka The Stab! All-Stars)
Austria - Scott "Packrat" Troemel - Eliminated 1903
England - Paul "Jehannum" Russell - Survival (16 SC)
France - Stephen "Deathblade Penguin" Lytton - Eliminated 1911
Germany - Jeffrey Krauss - Eliminated 1906
Italy - Michael "Psychosis" Thompson - Eliminated 1911
Russia - Dirk Knemeyer - Eliminated 1909
Turkey - Scott "Lequinian" Hickey - Solo Victory 1914 (18 SC)
List of Attachments
DC324_F14_Moves.gif ... so you can see how the last turn played out
DC324_F14_Game_Over.gif ... the final position showing Turkey's victory
DC324_F14.dpy ... the Realpolitik file. You can watch the whole game play out in a slideshow!
DC 324 Report.odt ... an open office word processing document that I kept for my own sake. Don't know how many of you will be able to open it, but if you can, you'll see how I tracked all the game moves -- what was seen, what was hidden, the complete support orders, etc.
GM's EOG Statement
I was first introduced to Stab! a few years back by a gentleman GM named Stephen Worthy (henceforth SW -- Hi Stephen!) from the Cat23 Diplomacy group. I was completely hooked after one turn. I liked gunboat. I really liked the semi-blind aspect, which let me try to be tricky in the dark and which really engaged my deductive powers trying to figure out where everyone's units were. I did rather well at it, too, which no doubt contributed to my enjoyment.
So, here it is a few years later and I decide that not only is it time I gave back and GM a game, but it's also my chance to revive Stab! on a new forum and find out whether I can get a bunch of new players hooked on it, too. Judging from the quickness with which the game filled up there was clearly strong interest. Not only strong interest, but a very strong group of players. I remember telling Mike Sims that I had a veritable all-star lineup. Even our "new face," Jeff Krauss, was fast proving his worth (just check out his standing in WB10), so I was expecting a great game and I'm very happy to say I wasn't disappointed.
Of course the GM has a uniquely omniscient perspective in a game like Stab! It was great fun to be able to watch each player tackle the problem of how to maneuver about in the dark. Russia and England and France, to name three examples, took advantage of the dark to quickly expand and attack opponents in non-traditional ways. Others were very conservative. Turkey, for instance, was very cautious. He couldn't know this, of course, but he repeatedly spent turns supporting himself in place against imaginary threats. If he had pushed on more boldly, I think there was a good chance he could have won the game easily 4 or 5 years earlier. Scroll through the Realpolitik file and see if you agree.
I don't want to step on the toes of the players' EOGS so I'm not going to speculate too much more on individual play. In general terms, though, it was signficant, I think, that it was our two witches who thrived best. In a somewhat chaotic world, is it a coincidence that it was the two countries considered highest in defensive strength that dominated in this game?
Think about that for a minute, and then check out these statistics. Combining this result with the outcomes from the four games SW has run, these are our outcomes:
CAT23 926: Russian win (year ??)
CAT23 1004: Turkey, England, France draw (year ??)
CAT23 1232: Turkish win (1912, 18 SC)
CAT23 1233: Turkish win (1907, 20 SC)DC 324: Turkish win (1914, 18 SC)
That's three Turkish solos out of five games. I know, I know. It's not a large sample size, but still, it makes you want to look a little closer.
In 1233, Turkey was aided greatly by his neighbors Russia and Austria. The former opened by sending 3 of his 4 units towards Scandinavia, while the latter opened against Italy and Russia, ignoring Serbia and Greece altogether in 1901. Turkey roared out of the gate and was never checked as he rolled to a quick and decisive victory.
The other two Turkish victories were not that kind of win. Both were more typical examples of blind gunboat games, where play is understandably less efficient than in sighted games. However, it still seems fair to me to wonder whether or not that type of game environment might just offer inherent advantages to some countries. I'm sure we could have a wonderful debate on that very topic. (I know because I have.) My current feeling, though, is that rather than debate the topic, I'd like to see more data. I'd like to see more games completed AND ... I'd like to see more games played where the results given above are known ahead of time because, as we all know, we do adjust our games to compensate for the strengths and weaknesses of the various countries according to our knowledge of their past performance. My guess is that if I were to host another game of Stab! on DC within the next few months that Turkey would start the game with a giant bullseye on his back. And you know what? That's okay. If we play enough of these games we'll eventually build up a new set of expectations and strategies to deal with the situation that not all countries are created equal in Stab! land. Heck, they're not equal in standard Dip, so we've no right to complain if Stab! skews the balance in different ways than we're used to. Right?
Players EOG Statements
You can post your EOG statements directly to the game forum, or just email to all the people on this list and copy the dc324 forum as I've done on this message. If you choose to just reply to this message, please do us all the favor of deleting this original message text from your entry.
I know that Germany has already written his EOGS and I hope that more of you will follow suit. I'd love to hear about how you stabbed in the dark and tried to keep from getting stabbed. Comments on the game management (my part) and the game rules are welcome, too. As mentioned some time ago, I intend to expand quite a bit on Stab! entry the DipWiki. I'll need some time to collect all my notes, but when I do I will send them to all of you for your review and comments.
Farewell
I suppose as Diplomacy games go this one played out pretty quickly. Fourteen years in fifteen weeks is certainly no record, but I have to say it felt like longer. I can put out a typically gunboat adjudication in about 30 minutes. The BEST I ever did in Stab! was an hour, and typically it was 1.5 to 2 hours by the time I'd finished.
Rest assured that it was all a labor of love and I'd do it again. Not right away, but again. Thanks to all the players who did a wonderful job of keeping to -- and ahead of, in most cases -- the deadlines. One NMR in 14 years is pretty darn good, in my book. I hope you all enjoyed yourselves as much as I did hosting.
Cheers,
Chris
Orders as resolved for Fall 1914.
=============================================
England:
F Baltic Sea Supports A Kiel - Berlin
F Barents Sea Supports F St Petersburg(sc)
A Belgium - Norway
A Burgundy - Munich (*Bounce*)
F English Channel Hold
F Gulf of Lyon Supports A Marseilles - Piedmont
A Holland - Kiel (*Fails*)
A Kiel - Berlin (*Bounce*)
A Marseilles - Piedmont (*Fails*)
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean Hold
F North Africa Supports F Tunis
F North Sea Convoys A Belgium - Norway
A Ruhr Supports A Burgundy - Munich
F St Petersburg(sc) Hold
F Tunis Supports F Western Mediterranean - Tyrrhenian Sea (*Cut*)
F Western Mediterranean - Tyrrhenian Sea (*Fails*)
Turkey:
F Adriatic Sea - Ionian Sea (*Fails*)
A Armenia - STE (*Invalid*)
A Bohemia - Munich (*Bounce*)
A Bulgaria - Rumania
A Galicia - Warsaw
F Ionian Sea - Tunis (*Fails*)
A Livonia Supports A Moscow - St Petersburg
A Moscow - St Petersburg (*Fails*)
A Munich - Berlin (*Bounce*)
F Naples Supports F Tyrrhenian Sea
A Piedmont Supports A Tuscany (*Cut*)
F Rome Supports F Tyrrhenian Sea
A Silesia Supports A Munich - Berlin
A Tuscany Supports A Piedmont
A Tyrolia Supports A Bohemia - Munich
F Tyrrhenian Sea Supports F Ionian Sea - Tunis (*Cut*)
A Warsaw - Prussia
=============================================[Reply] |
| DC332 Winter 1903 Adjudication - cfisher6 (Aug 10, 2010, 7:23 am) |
Spring 1904 Deadline will be Saturday 14th August at 23:59 pm.
England:
Remove F Norwegian Sea
France:
Build F Brest
Germany:
Build A Berlin
Russia:
Build F St Petersburg(sc)[Reply] |
| (DC 324) A Stab in the Dark *** GAME OVER *** - packrat (Aug 10, 2010, 7:22 am) |
NICE! Why don't ya just paint a target on the guys back while you're at it.
That's part of what fueled my slow exodus away from the hobby. Far too
many games wound up being "get Packrat" fests. And, no, it isn't paranoia,
I've had more than one player tell me that they came after me because of
the either the reputation or, in the case of DC, because of the ratings.
Congratulations for sure, and it is certainly IS an incredible record, but
when you point it out, you paint the target.
From:
Michael Sims <mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net>
To: C Morse <camorse22(at)yahoo.com>; Dirk Knemeyer <dirk(at)knemeyer.com>; Jeffrey Krause <diplomacy(at)jeffreyk.com>; Michael Thompson <psychosis(at)sky.com>; Paul Russell <jehannum_raver(at)yahoo.com>; Scott Packrat Troemel <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com>; Scott Hickey <thase+dipcorp(at)dalarin.net>; Steve Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>
Cc: dc324 <dc324(at)diplomaticcorp.com>; Stephen Worthy <stephenworthy(at)rocketmail.com>
Sent: Tue, August 10, 2010 8:13:38 AM
Subject: RE: (DC 324) A Stab in the Dark *** GAME OVER ***
Wow a 4th solo for Scott in 8 games played. Incredible record. Congrats!
-mike
From: C Morse [mailto:camorse22(at)yahoo.com]
Sent: Mon 8/9/2010 9:37 PM
To: Chris Morse; Dirk Knemeyer; Jeffrey Krause; Michael Thompson; Paul Russell; Scott Packrat Troemel; Scott Hickey; Steve Lytton
Cc: dc324; Michael Sims; Stephen Worthy
Subject: (DC 324) A Stab in the Dark *** GAME OVER ***
GENTLEMEN, WE HAVE A WINNER!
Congratulations to Scott Hickey, aka Lequinian, for his solo victory as Turkey in A Stab in the Dark, the inaugural Gunboat Stab! game on the DC site.
Bittersweet congratulations are also in order for our second-place finisher, Paul Russell, who played a heck of a game himself. Paul, as England, just missed derailing the Turkish locomotive that in the early-to-mid-game seemed on track to an easy triumph.
Scott used a ton of skill throughout the game and just enough intuition in the final season to thwart England's final gambit. It was a fifty-fifty proposition in the last Fall season. Turkey had four units in defense against England's four units attacking. Would it be three on Munich and one on Berlin, or two for each? Scott guessed the latter and he guessed correctly, managing to bounce the English attacks in both supply centers
and to claim his 18th dot in Munich while Berlin was left open.
Here are the orders that decided it all. (The complete set of orders can be found at the end of this message.)
England:
F Baltic Sea Supports A Kiel - Berlin
A Burgundy - Munich (*Bounce*)
A Kiel - Berlin (*Bounce*)
A Ruhr Supports A Burgundy - Munich
Turkey:
A Bohemia - Munich (*Bounce*)
A Munich - Berlin (*Bounce*)
A Silesia Supports A Munich - Berlin
A Tyrolia Supports A Bohemia - Munich
Tooth and nail to the end, I do believe that we would have had a stalemate if there had been no victory this year. As you can see from the attached maps, Turkey had just filled into Prussia, closing the last small gap in the two players' lines. I'm sure Paul is kicking himself for allowing Turkey to take Munich in the Spring, but hey, he took a calculated risk and it just didn't work. No shame there.
Cast of Characters (aka The Stab! All-Stars)
Austria - Scott "Packrat" Troemel - Eliminated 1903
England - Paul "Jehannum" Russell - Survival (16 SC)
France - Stephen "Deathblade Penguin" Lytton - Eliminated 1911
Germany - Jeffrey Krauss - Eliminated 1906
Italy - Michael "Psychosis" Thompson - Eliminated 1911
Russia - Dirk Knemeyer - Eliminated 1909
Turkey - Scott "Lequinian" Hickey - Solo Victory 1914 (18 SC)
List of Attachments
DC324_F14_Moves.gif ... so you can see how the last turn played out
DC324_F14_Game_Over.gif ... the final position showing Turkey's victory
DC324_F14.dpy ... the Realpolitik file. You can watch the whole game play out in a slideshow!
DC 324 Report.odt ... an open office word processing document that I kept for my own sake. Don't know how many of you
will be able to open it, but if you can, you'll see how I tracked all the game moves -- what was seen, what was hidden, the complete support orders, etc.
GM's EOG Statement
I was first introduced to Stab! a few years back by a gentleman GM named Stephen Worthy (henceforth SW -- Hi Stephen!) from the Cat23 Diplomacy group. I was completely hooked after one turn. I liked gunboat. I really liked the semi-blind aspect, which let me try to be tricky in the dark and which really engaged my deductive powers trying to figure out where everyone's units were. I did rather well at it, too, which no doubt contributed to my enjoyment.
So, here it is a few years later and I decide that not only is it time I gave back and GM a game, but it's also my chance to revive Stab! on a new forum and find out whether I can get a bunch of new players
hooked on it, too. Judging from the quickness with which the game filled up there was clearly strong interest. Not only strong interest, but a very strong group of players. I remember telling Mike Sims that I had a veritable all-star lineup. Even our "new face," Jeff Krauss, was fast proving his worth (just check out his standing in WB10), so I was expecting a great game and I'm very happy to say I wasn't disappointed.
Of course the GM has a uniquely omniscient perspective in a game like Stab! It was great fun to be able to watch each player tackle the problem of how to maneuver about in the dark. Russia and England and France, to name three examples, took advantage of the dark to quickly expand and attack opponents in non-traditional ways. Others were very conservative. Turkey, for instance, was very cautious. He couldn't know this, of course, but he repeatedly spent turns supporting himself
in place against imaginary threats. If he had pushed on more boldly, I think there was a good chance he could have won the game easily 4 or 5 years earlier. Scroll through the Realpolitik file and see if you agree.
I don't want to step on the toes of the players' EOGS so I'm not going to speculate too much more on individual play. In general terms, though, it was signficant, I think, that it was our two witches who thrived best. In a somewhat chaotic world, is it a coincidence that it was the two countries considered highest in defensive strength that dominated in this game?
Think about that for a minute, and then check out these statistics. Combining this result with the outcomes from the four games SW has run, these are our outcomes:
CAT23 926: Russian win (year ??)
CAT23 1004: Turkey, England, France draw (year ??)
CAT23 1232: Turkish win (1912, 18 SC)
CAT23 1233: Turkish win (1907, 20 SC)DC 324: Turkish win (1914, 18 SC)
That's three Turkish solos out of five games. I know, I know. It's not a large sample size, but still, it makes you want to look a little closer.
In 1233, Turkey was aided greatly by his neighbors Russia and Austria. The former opened by sending 3 of his 4 units towards Scandinavia, while the latter opened against Italy and Russia, ignoring Serbia and Greece altogether in 1901. Turkey roared out of the gate and was never checked as he rolled to a quick and decisive victory.
The other two Turkish victories were not that kind of win. Both were more typical examples of blind gunboat games, where play is understandably less efficient than in sighted games. However, it still seems fair to me to wonder whether or not that type of game environment might just offer inherent advantages to some
countries. I'm sure we could have a wonderful debate on that very topic. (I know because I have.) My current feeling, though, is that rather than debate the topic, I'd like to see more data. I'd like to see more games completed AND ... I'd like to see more games played where the results given above are known ahead of time because, as we all know, we do adjust our games to compensate for the strengths and weaknesses of the various countries according to our knowledge of their past performance. My guess is that if I were to host another game of Stab! on DC within the next few months that Turkey would start the game with a giant bullseye on his back. And you know what? That's okay. If we play enough of these games we'll eventually build up a new set of expectations and strategies to deal with the situation that not all countries are created equal in Stab! land. Heck, they're not equal in standard Dip,
so we've no right to complain if Stab! skews the balance in different ways than we're used to. Right?
Players EOG Statements
You can post your EOG statements directly to the game forum, or just email to all the people on this list and copy the dc324 forum as I've done on this message. If you choose to just reply to this message, please do us all the favor of deleting this original message text from your entry.
I know that Germany has already written his EOGS and I hope that more of you will follow suit. I'd love to hear about how you stabbed in the dark and tried to keep from getting stabbed. Comments on the game management (my part) and the game rules are welcome, too. As mentioned some time ago, I intend to expand quite a bit on Stab! entry the DipWiki. I'll need some time to collect all my notes, but when I do I
will send them to all of you for your review and comments.
Farewell
I suppose as Diplomacy games go this one played out pretty quickly. Fourteen years in fifteen weeks is certainly no record, but I have to say it felt like longer. I can put out a typically gunboat adjudication in about 30 minutes. The BEST I ever did in Stab! was an hour, and typically it was 1.5 to 2 hours by the time I'd finished.
Rest assured that it was all a labor of love and I'd do it again. Not right away, but again. Thanks to all the players who did a wonderful job of keeping to -- and ahead of, in most cases -- the deadlines. One NMR in 14 years is pretty darn good, in my book. I hope you all enjoyed yourselves as much as I did hosting.
Cheers,
Chris
Orders as resolved for Fall
1914.
=============================================
England:
F Baltic Sea Supports A Kiel - Berlin
F Barents Sea Supports F St Petersburg(sc)
A Belgium - Norway
A Burgundy - Munich (*Bounce*)
F English Channel Hold
F Gulf of Lyon Supports A Marseilles - Piedmont
A Holland - Kiel (*Fails*)
A Kiel - Berlin (*Bounce*)
A Marseilles - Piedmont (*Fails*)
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean Hold
F North Africa Supports F Tunis
F North Sea Convoys A Belgium - Norway
A Ruhr Supports A Burgundy - Munich
F St Petersburg(sc) Hold
F Tunis Supports F Western Mediterranean - Tyrrhenian Sea (*Cut*)
F Western Mediterranean - Tyrrhenian Sea (*Fails*)
Turkey:
F Adriatic Sea - Ionian Sea (*Fails*)
A Armenia - STE (*Invalid*)
A Bohemia - Munich (*Bounce*)
A Bulgaria - Rumania
A Galicia - Warsaw
F Ionian Sea - Tunis (*Fails*)
A Livonia Supports A Moscow - St Petersburg
A Moscow - St Petersburg
(*Fails*)
A Munich - Berlin (*Bounce*)
F Naples Supports F Tyrrhenian Sea
A Piedmont Supports A Tuscany (*Cut*)
F Rome Supports F Tyrrhenian Sea
A Silesia Supports A Munich - Berlin
A Tuscany Supports A Piedmont
A Tyrolia Supports A Bohemia - Munich
F Tyrrhenian Sea Supports F Ionian Sea - Tunis (*Cut*)
A Warsaw - Prussia
=============================================[Reply] |
| DC 335 Deadline Warning - fencertim (Aug 10, 2010, 7:17 am) |
About 8 hours to go and I still need 2
more sets of orders. I have acknowledged what I have received.
tim
From: Timothy Crosby
[mailto:tim_crosby(at)hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 5:06
PM
To: 'Timothy Crosby';
jyjusy(at)hotmail.com; michael.alan.walters(at)gmail.com;
Simon.Langley-Evans(at)nottingham.ac.uk; matthew.kremer(at)yale.edu;
yannanth(at)gmail.com; 'Darryl Good'; wealllovekatamari(at)yahoo.com;
dc335(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Subject: DC 335 Deadline Warning
Spring 1902 deadline is less than 24 hours
from now….looks like I am missing a few sets of orders.
Thanks,
Tim[Reply] |
| (DC 324) A Stab in the Dark *** GAME OVER *** - FuzzyLogic (Aug 10, 2010, 7:13 am) |
Wow a 4th solo for Scott in 8 games played. Incredible record. Congrats!
-mike
From: C Morse [mailto:camorse22(at)yahoo.com]
Sent: Mon 8/9/2010 9:37 PM
To: Chris Morse; Dirk Knemeyer; Jeffrey Krause; Michael Thompson; Paul Russell; Scott Packrat Troemel; Scott Hickey; Steve Lytton
Cc: dc324; Michael Sims; Stephen Worthy
Subject: (DC 324) A Stab in the Dark *** GAME OVER ***
GENTLEMEN, WE HAVE A WINNER!
Congratulations to Scott Hickey, aka Lequinian, for his solo victory as Turkey in A Stab in the Dark, the inaugural Gunboat Stab! game on the DC site.
Bittersweet congratulations are also in order for our second-place finisher, Paul Russell, who played a heck of a game himself. Paul, as England, just missed derailing the Turkish locomotive that in the early-to-mid-game seemed on track to an easy triumph.
Scott used a ton of skill throughout the game and just enough intuition in the final season to thwart England's final gambit. It was a fifty-fifty proposition in the last Fall season. Turkey had four units in defense against England's four units attacking. Would it be three on Munich and one on Berlin, or two for each? Scott guessed the latter and he guessed correctly, managing to bounce the English attacks in both supply centers and to claim his 18th dot in Munich while Berlin was left open.
Here are the orders that decided it all. (The complete set of orders can be found at the end of this message.)
England:
F Baltic Sea Supports A Kiel - Berlin
A Burgundy - Munich (*Bounce*)
A Kiel - Berlin (*Bounce*)
A Ruhr Supports A Burgundy - Munich
Turkey:
A Bohemia - Munich (*Bounce*)
A Munich - Berlin (*Bounce*)
A Silesia Supports A Munich - Berlin
A Tyrolia Supports A Bohemia - Munich
Tooth and nail to the end, I do believe that we would have had a stalemate if there had been no victory this year. As you can see from the attached maps, Turkey had just filled into Prussia, closing the last small gap in the two players' lines. I'm sure Paul is kicking himself for allowing Turkey to take Munich in the Spring, but hey, he took a calculated risk and it just didn't work. No shame there.
Cast of Characters (aka The Stab! All-Stars)
Austria - Scott "Packrat" Troemel - Eliminated 1903
England - Paul "Jehannum" Russell - Survival (16 SC)
France - Stephen "Deathblade Penguin" Lytton - Eliminated 1911
Germany - Jeffrey Krauss - Eliminated 1906
Italy - Michael "Psychosis" Thompson - Eliminated 1911
Russia - Dirk Knemeyer - Eliminated 1909
Turkey - Scott "Lequinian" Hickey - Solo Victory 1914 (18 SC)
List of Attachments
DC324_F14_Moves.gif ... so you can see how the last turn played out
DC324_F14_Game_Over.gif ... the final position showing Turkey's victory
DC324_F14.dpy ... the Realpolitik file. You can watch the whole game play out in a slideshow!
DC 324 Report.odt ... an open office word processing document that I kept for my own sake. Don't know how many of you will be able to open it, but if you can, you'll see how I tracked all the game moves -- what was seen, what was hidden, the complete support orders, etc.
GM's EOG Statement
I was first introduced to Stab! a few years back by a gentleman GM named Stephen Worthy (henceforth SW -- Hi Stephen!) from the Cat23 Diplomacy group. I was completely hooked after one turn. I liked gunboat. I really liked the semi-blind aspect, which let me try to be tricky in the dark and which really engaged my deductive powers trying to figure out where everyone's units were. I did rather well at it, too, which no doubt contributed to my enjoyment.
So, here it is a few years later and I decide that not only is it time I gave back and GM a game, but it's also my chance to revive Stab! on a new forum and find out whether I can get a bunch of new players hooked on it, too. Judging from the quickness with which the game filled up there was clearly strong interest. Not only strong interest, but a very strong group of players. I remember telling Mike Sims that I had a veritable all-star lineup. Even our "new face," Jeff Krauss, was fast proving his worth (just check out his standing in WB10), so I was expecting a great game and I'm very happy to say I wasn't disappointed.
Of course the GM has a uniquely omniscient perspective in a game like Stab! It was great fun to be able to watch each player tackle the problem of how to maneuver about in the dark. Russia and England and France, to name three examples, took advantage of the dark to quickly expand and attack opponents in non-traditional ways. Others were very conservative. Turkey, for instance, was very cautious. He couldn't know this, of course, but he repeatedly spent turns supporting himself in place against imaginary threats. If he had pushed on more boldly, I think there was a good chance he could have won the game easily 4 or 5 years earlier. Scroll through the Realpolitik file and see if you agree.
I don't want to step on the toes of the players' EOGS so I'm not going to speculate too much more on individual play. In general terms, though, it was signficant, I think, that it was our two witches who thrived best. In a somewhat chaotic world, is it a coincidence that it was the two countries considered highest in defensive strength that dominated in this game?
Think about that for a minute, and then check out these statistics. Combining this result with the outcomes from the four games SW has run, these are our outcomes:
CAT23 926: Russian win (year ??)
CAT23 1004: Turkey, England, France draw (year ??)
CAT23 1232: Turkish win (1912, 18 SC)
CAT23 1233: Turkish win (1907, 20 SC)DC 324: Turkish win (1914, 18 SC)
That's three Turkish solos out of five games. I know, I know. It's not a large sample size, but still, it makes you want to look a little closer.
In 1233, Turkey was aided greatly by his neighbors Russia and Austria. The former opened by sending 3 of his 4 units towards Scandinavia, while the latter opened against Italy and Russia, ignoring Serbia and Greece altogether in 1901. Turkey roared out of the gate and was never checked as he rolled to a quick and decisive victory.
The other two Turkish victories were not that kind of win. Both were more typical examples of blind gunboat games, where play is understandably less efficient than in sighted games. However, it still seems fair to me to wonder whether or not that type of game environment might just offer inherent advantages to some countries. I'm sure we could have a wonderful debate on that very topic. (I know because I have.) My current feeling, though, is that rather than debate the topic, I'd like to see more data. I'd like to see more games completed AND ... I'd like to see more games played where the results given above are known ahead of time because, as we all know, we do adjust our games to compensate for the strengths and weaknesses of the various countries according to our knowledge of their past performance. My guess is that if I were to host another game of Stab! on DC within the next few months that Turkey would start the game with a giant bullseye on his back. And you know what? That's okay. If we play enough of these games we'll eventually build up a new set of expectations and strategies to deal with the situation that not all countries are created equal in Stab! land. Heck, they're not equal in standard Dip, so we've no right to complain if Stab! skews the balance in different ways than we're used to. Right?
Players EOG Statements
You can post your EOG statements directly to the game forum, or just email to all the people on this list and copy the dc324 forum as I've done on this message. If you choose to just reply to this message, please do us all the favor of deleting this original message text from your entry.
I know that Germany has already written his EOGS and I hope that more of you will follow suit. I'd love to hear about how you stabbed in the dark and tried to keep from getting stabbed. Comments on the game management (my part) and the game rules are welcome, too. As mentioned some time ago, I intend to expand quite a bit on Stab! entry the DipWiki. I'll need some time to collect all my notes, but when I do I will send them to all of you for your review and comments.
Farewell
I suppose as Diplomacy games go this one played out pretty quickly. Fourteen years in fifteen weeks is certainly no record, but I have to say it felt like longer. I can put out a typically gunboat adjudication in about 30 minutes. The BEST I ever did in Stab! was an hour, and typically it was 1.5 to 2 hours by the time I'd finished.
Rest assured that it was all a labor of love and I'd do it again. Not right away, but again. Thanks to all the players who did a wonderful job of keeping to -- and ahead of, in most cases -- the deadlines. One NMR in 14 years is pretty darn good, in my book. I hope you all enjoyed yourselves as much as I did hosting.
Cheers,
Chris
Orders as resolved for Fall 1914.
=============================================
England:
F Baltic Sea Supports A Kiel - Berlin
F Barents Sea Supports F St Petersburg(sc)
A Belgium - Norway
A Burgundy - Munich (*Bounce*)
F English Channel Hold
F Gulf of Lyon Supports A Marseilles - Piedmont
A Holland - Kiel (*Fails*)
A Kiel - Berlin (*Bounce*)
A Marseilles - Piedmont (*Fails*)
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean Hold
F North Africa Supports F Tunis
F North Sea Convoys A Belgium - Norway
A Ruhr Supports A Burgundy - Munich
F St Petersburg(sc) Hold
F Tunis Supports F Western Mediterranean - Tyrrhenian Sea (*Cut*)
F Western Mediterranean - Tyrrhenian Sea (*Fails*)
Turkey:
F Adriatic Sea - Ionian Sea (*Fails*)
A Armenia - STE (*Invalid*)
A Bohemia - Munich (*Bounce*)
A Bulgaria - Rumania
A Galicia - Warsaw
F Ionian Sea - Tunis (*Fails*)
A Livonia Supports A Moscow - St Petersburg
A Moscow - St Petersburg (*Fails*)
A Munich - Berlin (*Bounce*)
F Naples Supports F Tyrrhenian Sea
A Piedmont Supports A Tuscany (*Cut*)
F Rome Supports F Tyrrhenian Sea
A Silesia Supports A Munich - Berlin
A Tuscany Supports A Piedmont
A Tyrolia Supports A Bohemia - Munich
F Tyrrhenian Sea Supports F Ionian Sea - Tunis (*Cut*)
A Warsaw - Prussia
=============================================[Reply] |
| FLWC today! - FuzzyLogic (Aug 10, 2010, 7:06 am) |
Hey everyone,
Results today! Prompt at 3pm with orders or not, cuz we need to squeeze in Autumn / Winter by Thursday. I'm in Disney World the next week then, so the following Spring will be due the Monday after.
Enjoy,
-mike
[Reply] |
| DC 324 A Stab in the Dark ENGLAND EOG - PARussell (Aug 10, 2010, 5:54 am) |
First thanks and appreciation to Chris for hosting a variant that took a lot more work than most. And thanks to him for recruiting me to something new and completely different. I don't usually play gunboat, and this variant was certainly challenging.
Second, congratulations to Turkey, aka Scott Hickey. He played a great game and seemed to be able to read my mind as I had to guess which way to go. I'd be happy for a rematch anytime! I hoped I didn't disappoint also.
I am still kicking myself about the last turn. In retrospect, I could have held for a stalemate but I was too "eager" for a solo and gambled and lost. I'll certainly keep that in mind in the next game.
Thirdly, I want to thank France for such a rugged defense. I blame him that I couldn't get to the stalemate line sooner and
won! It was a pleasure to be matching wits and guesses in the dark.
Last a thanks to all the other players for joining this game.
England aka Paul[Reply] |
| (DC 324) A Stab in the Dark *** GAME OVER *** - dknemeyer (Aug 09, 2010, 9:45 pm) |
Congrats to Scott and Paul on an excellent game. I wrote my EOG statement when I was eliminated:
EOG STATEMENTThis game is my first-ever elimination from a Diplomacy game, and I have to say it is the game that brought into focus both my strengths and weaknesses as a Dip player, hopefully in a way that helps me improve my weaknesses. First, my strengths: before the game I puzzled over the board as a tactical problem to be solved. In Austria and Germany I saw two countries that would start the game vulnerable but who would both present increasingly challenging opponents, sneaking through the hinterlands of Prussia, Silesia, Bohemia, Galicia, Ukraine...it was too much for a Tsar to bear! So I plotted out a campaign for smashing them, and smash them I did. There were some really nice moves in that campaigning. My apologies to both the Emperor and the Kaiser. It was obviously nothing personal!
Sadly, in the process, I exposed my biggest Dip weakness, my lack of a solid strategic game. Rather than fold that excellent campaign into a good strategic plan I simply crashed forward...and kept crashing forward. Rather than disbanding forward units that had wrecked my antagonists to protect my vulnerable lands at home when I had the chance, I kept them marauding in unsustainable places. You already know what happened as my home centers fell one after another: St. Petersburg, Sevastapol, Moscow, even fair Warsaw which seemed so remote and secure!
Of course, luck played a part in my demise. When I was still viable - even strong - I misordered a supported attack into Bel (instead of Bul!) which resulted in holds. Instead of gaining a center I LOST an extra center in the process! That was the backbreaker. The other bit of luck that conspired against me was in both England and Turkey pressing against me without mercy. If even one had gone in a different direction, or accepted a silent peace with me, the game would have gone very, very differently. A credit to them both, for wrecking me and insodoing contributing to their running away with the game.
I want to thank Chris for hosting the game: it would be a bitch to GM this thing! I look forward to playing again and will sign right up the next time this variant is offered. Thanks to all of the players - those of us who took our lumps and those who handed out the lumps - for playing a near-flawless game in terms of NMR's. My compliments to England and Turkey (not knowing who is going to win, as I write this at the moment of my bitter elimination!) Good times!
On Aug 9, 2010, at 10:37 PM, C Morse wrote:
GENTLEMEN, WE HAVE A WINNER!
Congratulations to Scott Hickey, aka Lequinian, for his solo victory as Turkey in A Stab in the Dark, the inaugural Gunboat Stab! game on the DC site.
Bittersweet congratulations are also in order for our second-place finisher, Paul Russell, who played a heck of a game himself. Paul, as England, just missed derailing the Turkish locomotive that in the early-to-mid-game seemed on track to an easy triumph.
Scott used a ton of skill throughout the game and just enough intuition in the final season to thwart England's final gambit. It was a fifty-fifty proposition in the last Fall season. Turkey had four units in defense against England's four units attacking. Would it be three on Munich and one on Berlin, or two for each? Scott guessed the latter and he guessed correctly, managing to bounce the English attacks in both supply centers and to claim his 18th dot in Munich while Berlin was left open.
Here are the orders that decided it all. (The complete set of orders can be found at the end of this message.)
England:
F Baltic Sea Supports A Kiel - Berlin
A Burgundy - Munich (*Bounce*)
A Kiel - Berlin (*Bounce*)
A Ruhr Supports A Burgundy - Munich
Turkey:
A Bohemia - Munich (*Bounce*)
A Munich - Berlin (*Bounce*)
A Silesia Supports A Munich - Berlin
A Tyrolia Supports A Bohemia - Munich
Tooth and nail to the end, I do believe that we would have had a stalemate if there had been no victory this year. As you can see from the attached maps, Turkey had just filled into Prussia, closing the last small gap in the two players' lines. I'm sure Paul is kicking himself for allowing Turkey to take Munich in the Spring, but hey, he took a calculated risk and it just didn't work. No shame there.
Cast of Characters (aka The Stab! All-Stars)
Austria - Scott "Packrat" Troemel - Eliminated 1903
England - Paul "Jehannum" Russell - Survival (16 SC)
France - Stephen "Deathblade Penguin" Lytton - Eliminated 1911
Germany - Jeffrey Krauss - Eliminated 1906
Italy - Michael "Psychosis" Thompson - Eliminated 1911
Russia - Dirk Knemeyer - Eliminated 1909
Turkey - Scott "Lequinian" Hickey - Solo Victory 1914 (18 SC)
List of Attachments
DC324_F14_Moves.gif ... so you can see how the last turn played out
DC324_F14_Game_Over.gif ... the final position showing Turkey's victory
DC324_F14.dpy ... the Realpolitik file. You can watch the whole game play out in a slideshow!
DC 324 Report.odt ... an open office word processing document that I kept for my own sake. Don't know how many of you will be able to open it, but if you can, you'll see how I tracked all the game moves -- what was seen, what was hidden, the complete support orders, etc.
GM's EOG Statement
I was first introduced to Stab! a few years back by a gentleman GM named Stephen Worthy (henceforth SW -- Hi Stephen!) from the Cat23 Diplomacy group. I was completely hooked after one turn. I liked gunboat. I really liked the semi-blind aspect, which let me try to be tricky in the dark and which really engaged my deductive powers trying to figure out where everyone's units were. I did rather well at it, too, which no doubt contributed to my enjoyment.
So, here it is a few years later and I decide that not only is it time I gave back and GM a game, but it's also my chance to revive Stab! on a new forum and find out whether I can get a bunch of new players hooked on it, too. Judging from the quickness with which the game filled up there was clearly strong interest. Not only strong interest, but a very strong group of players. I remember telling Mike Sims that I had a veritable all-star lineup. Even our "new face," Jeff Krauss, was fast proving his worth (just check out his standing in WB10), so I was expecting a great game and I'm very happy to say I wasn't disappointed.
Of course the GM has a uniquely omniscient perspective in a game like Stab! It was great fun to be able to watch each player tackle the problem of how to maneuver about in the dark. Russia and England and France, to name three examples, took advantage of the dark to quickly expand and attack opponents in non-traditional ways. Others were very conservative. Turkey, for instance, was very cautious. He couldn't know this, of course, but he repeatedly spent turns supporting himself in place against imaginary threats. If he had pushed on more boldly, I think there was a good chance he could have won the game easily 4 or 5 years earlier. Scroll through the Realpolitik file and see if you agree.
I don't want to step on the toes of the players' EOGS so I'm not going to speculate too much more on individual play. In general terms, though, it was signficant, I think, that it was our two witches who thrived best. In a somewhat chaotic world, is it a coincidence that it was the two countries considered highest in defensive strength that dominated in this game?
Think about that for a minute, and then check out these statistics. Combining this result with the outcomes from the four games SW has run, these are our outcomes:
CAT23 926: Russian win (year ??)
CAT23 1004: Turkey, England, France draw (year ??)
CAT23 1232: Turkish win (1912, 18 SC)CAT23 1233: Turkish win (1907, 20 SC)DC 324: Turkish win (1914, 18 SC)
That's three Turkish solos out of five games. I know, I know. It's not a large sample size, but still, it makes you want to look a little closer.
In 1233, Turkey was aided greatly by his neighbors Russia and Austria. The former opened by sending 3 of his 4 units towards Scandinavia, while the latter opened against Italy and Russia, ignoring Serbia and Greece altogether in 1901. Turkey roared out of the gate and was never checked as he rolled to a quick and decisive victory.
The other two Turkish victories were not that kind of win. Both were more typical examples of blind gunboat games, where play is understandably less efficient than in sighted games. However, it still seems fair to me to wonder whether or not that type of game environment might just offer inherent advantages to some countries. I'm sure we could have a wonderful debate on that very topic. (I know because I have.) My current feeling, though, is that rather than debate the topic, I'd like to see more data. I'd like to see more games completed AND ... I'd like to see more games played where the results given above are known ahead of time because, as we all know, we do adjust our games to compensate for the strengths and weaknesses of the various countries according to our knowledge of their past performance. My guess is that if I were to host another game of Stab! on DC within the next few months that Turkey would start the game with a giant bullseye on his back. And you know what? That's okay. If we play enough of these games we'll eventually build up a new set of expectations and strategies to deal with the situation that not all countries are created equal in Stab! land. Heck, they're not equal in standard Dip, so we've no right to complain if Stab! skews the balance in different ways than we're used to. Right?
Players EOG Statements
You can post your EOG statements directly to the game forum, or just email to all the people on this list and copy the dc324 forum as I've done on this message. If you choose to just reply to this message, please do us all the favor of deleting this original message text from your entry.
I know that Germany has already written his EOGS and I hope that more of you will follow suit. I'd love to hear about how you stabbed in the dark and tried to keep from getting stabbed. Comments on the game management (my part) and the game rules are welcome, too. As mentioned some time ago, I intend to expand quite a bit on Stab! entry the DipWiki. I'll need some time to collect all my notes, but when I do I will send them to all of you for your review and comments.
Farewell
I suppose as Diplomacy games go this one played out pretty quickly. Fourteen years in fifteen weeks is certainly no record, but I have to say it felt like longer. I can put out a typically gunboat adjudication in about 30 minutes. The BEST I ever did in Stab! was an hour, and typically it was 1.5 to 2 hours by the time I'd finished.
Rest assured that it was all a labor of love and I'd do it again. Not right away, but again. Thanks to all the players who did a wonderful job of keeping to -- and ahead of, in most cases -- the deadlines. One NMR in 14 years is pretty darn good, in my book. I hope you all enjoyed yourselves as much as I did hosting.
Cheers,
Chris
Orders as resolved for Fall 1914.
=============================================
England:
F Baltic Sea Supports A Kiel - Berlin
F Barents Sea Supports F St Petersburg(sc)
A Belgium - Norway
A Burgundy - Munich (*Bounce*)
F English Channel Hold
F Gulf of Lyon Supports A Marseilles - Piedmont
A Holland - Kiel (*Fails*)
A Kiel - Berlin (*Bounce*)
A Marseilles - Piedmont (*Fails*)
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean Hold
F North Africa Supports F Tunis
F North Sea Convoys A Belgium - Norway
A Ruhr Supports A Burgundy - Munich
F St Petersburg(sc) Hold
F Tunis Supports F Western Mediterranean - Tyrrhenian Sea (*Cut*)
F Western Mediterranean - Tyrrhenian Sea (*Fails*)
Turkey:
F Adriatic Sea - Ionian Sea (*Fails*)
A Armenia - STE (*Invalid*)
A Bohemia - Munich (*Bounce*)
A Bulgaria - Rumania
A Galicia - Warsaw
F Ionian Sea - Tunis (*Fails*)
A Livonia Supports A Moscow - St Petersburg
A Moscow - St Petersburg (*Fails*)
A Munich - Berlin (*Bounce*)
F Naples Supports F Tyrrhenian Sea
A Piedmont Supports A Tuscany (*Cut*)
F Rome Supports F Tyrrhenian Sea
A Silesia Supports A Munich - Berlin
A Tuscany Supports A Piedmont
A Tyrolia Supports A Bohemia - Munich
F Tyrrhenian Sea Supports F Ionian Sea - Tunis (*Cut*)
A Warsaw - Prussia
=============================================
<DC324_F14_moves.gif><DC324_F14_Game_Over.gif><DC324_F14.dpy><DC 324 Report.odt>[Reply] |
| (DC 324) A Stab in the Dark *** GAME OVER *** - Corrino (Aug 09, 2010, 9:37 pm) |
GENTLEMEN, WE HAVE A WINNER!
Congratulations to Scott Hickey, aka Lequinian, for his solo victory as Turkey in A Stab in the Dark, the inaugural Gunboat Stab! game on the DC site.
Bittersweet congratulations are also in order for our second-place finisher, Paul Russell, who played a heck of a game himself. Paul, as England, just missed derailing the Turkish locomotive that in the early-to-mid-game seemed on track to an easy triumph.
Scott used a ton of skill throughout the game and just enough intuition in the final season to thwart England's final gambit. It was a fifty-fifty proposition in the last Fall season. Turkey had four units in defense against England's four units attacking. Would it be three on
Munich and one on Berlin, or two for each? Scott guessed the latter and he guessed correctly, managing to bounce the English attacks in both supply centers and to claim his 18th dot in Munich while Berlin was left open.
Here are the orders that decided it all. (The complete set of orders can be found at the end of this message.)
England:
F Baltic Sea Supports A Kiel - Berlin
A Burgundy - Munich (*Bounce*)
A Kiel - Berlin (*Bounce*)
A Ruhr Supports A Burgundy - Munich
Turkey:
A Bohemia - Munich (*Bounce*)
A Munich - Berlin (*Bounce*)
A Silesia Supports A Munich - Berlin
A Tyrolia Supports A Bohemia - Munich
Tooth and nail to the end, I do believe that we would have had a stalemate if there had been no victory this year. As you can see from the attached maps, Turkey had just filled into Prussia, closing the last small gap in the two players' lines. I'm sure Paul is kicking himself for allowing Turkey to take Munich in the Spring, but hey, he took a calculated risk and it just didn't work. No shame there.
Cast of Characters (aka The Stab! All-Stars)
Austria - Scott "Packrat" Troemel - Eliminated 1903
England - Paul "Jehannum" Russell - Survival (16 SC)
France - Stephen "Deathblade Penguin" Lytton - Eliminated 1911
Germany - Jeffrey Krauss - Eliminated 1906
Italy - Michael "Psychosis" Thompson - Eliminated 1911
Russia - Dirk Knemeyer - Eliminated 1909
Turkey - Scott "Lequinian" Hickey - Solo Victory 1914 (18 SC)
List of Attachments
DC324_F14_Moves.gif ... so you can see how the last turn played out
DC324_F14_Game_Over.gif ... the final position showing Turkey's victory
DC324_F14.dpy ... the Realpolitik file. You can watch the whole game play out in a slideshow!
DC 324 Report.odt ... an open office word processing document that I kept for my own sake. Don't know how
many of you will be able to open it, but if you can, you'll see how I tracked all the game moves -- what was seen, what was hidden, the complete support orders, etc.
GM's EOG Statement
I was first introduced to Stab! a few years back by a gentleman GM named Stephen Worthy (henceforth SW -- Hi Stephen!) from the Cat23 Diplomacy group. I was completely hooked after one turn. I liked gunboat. I really liked the semi-blind aspect, which let me try to be tricky in the dark and which really engaged my deductive powers trying to figure out where everyone's units were. I did rather well at it, too, which no doubt contributed to my enjoyment.
So, here it is a few years later and I decide that not only is it time I gave back and GM a game, but it's also my chance to revive Stab! on a new forum and find out whether I can get a bunch of new players hooked on it, too. Judging from the quickness with which the game filled up there was clearly strong interest. Not only strong interest, but a very strong group of players. I remember telling Mike Sims that I had a veritable all-star lineup.
Even our "new face," Jeff Krauss, was fast proving his worth (just check out his standing in WB10), so I was expecting a great game and I'm very happy to say I wasn't disappointed.
Of course the GM has a uniquely omniscient perspective in a game like Stab! It was great fun to be able to watch each player tackle the problem of how to maneuver about in the dark. Russia and England and France, to name three examples, took advantage of the dark to quickly expand and attack opponents in non-traditional ways. Others were very conservative. Turkey, for instance, was very cautious. He couldn't know this, of course, but he repeatedly spent turns supporting himself in place against imaginary threats. If he had pushed on more boldly, I think there was a good chance he could have won the game easily 4 or 5 years earlier. Scroll through the Realpolitik file and see if you agree.
I don't want to step on the toes
of the players' EOGS so I'm not going to speculate too much more on individual play. In general terms, though, it was signficant, I think, that it was our two witches who thrived best. In a somewhat chaotic world, is it a coincidence that it was the two countries considered highest in defensive strength that dominated in this game?
Think about that for a minute, and then check out these statistics. Combining this result with the outcomes from the four games SW has run, these are our outcomes:
CAT23 926: Russian win (year ??)
CAT23 1004: Turkey, England, France draw (year ??)
CAT23 1232: Turkish win (1912, 18 SC)
CAT23 1233: Turkish win (1907, 20 SC)DC 324: Turkish win (1914, 18 SC)
That's three Turkish solos out of five games. I know, I know. It's not a large sample size, but still, it makes you want to look a little closer.
In 1233, Turkey was aided greatly by his neighbors Russia and Austria. The former opened by sending 3 of his 4 units towards Scandinavia, while the latter opened against Italy and Russia, ignoring Serbia and Greece altogether in 1901. Turkey roared out of the gate and was never checked as he rolled to a quick and decisive victory.
The other two Turkish victories were not that kind of win. Both were more typical examples of blind gunboat games, where play is understandably less efficient than in sighted games. However, it still seems fair to me to wonder whether or not that type of game environment might just offer inherent advantages to some
countries. I'm sure we could have a wonderful debate on that very topic. (I know because I have.) My current feeling, though, is that rather than debate the topic, I'd like to see more data. I'd like to see more games completed AND ... I'd like to see more games played where the results given above are known ahead of time because, as we all know, we do adjust our games to compensate for the strengths and weaknesses of the various countries according to our knowledge of their past performance. My guess is that if I were to host another game of Stab! on DC within the next few months that Turkey would start the game with a giant bullseye on his back. And you know what? That's okay. If we play enough of these games we'll eventually build up a new set of expectations and strategies to deal with the situation that not all countries are created equal in Stab! land. Heck, they're not equal in standard Dip,
so we've no right to complain if Stab! skews the balance in different ways than we're used to. Right?
Players EOG Statements
You can post your EOG statements directly to the game forum, or just email to all the people on this list and copy the dc324 forum as I've done on this message. If you choose to just reply to this message, please do us all the favor of deleting this original message text from your entry.
I know that Germany has already
written his EOGS and I hope that more of you will follow suit. I'd love to hear about how you stabbed in the dark and tried to keep from getting stabbed. Comments on the game management (my part) and the game rules are welcome, too. As mentioned some time ago, I intend to expand quite a bit on Stab! entry the DipWiki. I'll need some time to collect all my notes, but when I do I will send them to all of you for your review and comments.
Farewell
I suppose as Diplomacy games go this one played out pretty quickly. Fourteen years in fifteen weeks is certainly no record, but I have to say it felt like longer. I can put out a typically gunboat adjudication in about 30 minutes. The BEST I ever did in Stab! was an hour, and typically it was 1.5 to 2 hours by the time I'd finished.
Rest assured that it was all a labor of love and I'd do it again. Not right away, but again. Thanks to all the players who did a wonderful job of keeping to -- and ahead of, in most cases -- the deadlines. One NMR in 14 years is pretty darn good, in my book. I hope you all enjoyed yourselves as much as I did hosting.
Cheers,
Chris
Orders as resolved for Fall 1914.
=============================================
England:
F Baltic Sea Supports A Kiel - Berlin
F Barents Sea Supports F St Petersburg(sc)
A Belgium - Norway
A Burgundy - Munich (*Bounce*)
F English Channel Hold
F Gulf of Lyon Supports A Marseilles - Piedmont
A Holland - Kiel (*Fails*)
A Kiel - Berlin (*Bounce*)
A Marseilles - Piedmont (*Fails*)
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean Hold
F North Africa Supports F Tunis
F North Sea Convoys A Belgium - Norway
A Ruhr Supports A Burgundy - Munich
F St Petersburg(sc) Hold
F Tunis Supports F Western Mediterranean - Tyrrhenian Sea (*Cut*)
F Western Mediterranean - Tyrrhenian Sea (*Fails*)
Turkey:
F Adriatic Sea - Ionian Sea (*Fails*)
A Armenia - STE (*Invalid*)
A Bohemia - Munich (*Bounce*)
A Bulgaria - Rumania
A Galicia - Warsaw
F Ionian Sea - Tunis (*Fails*)
A Livonia Supports A Moscow - St Petersburg
A Moscow - St Petersburg (*Fails*)
A Munich - Berlin (*Bounce*)
F Naples Supports F Tyrrhenian Sea
A Piedmont Supports A Tuscany (*Cut*)
F Rome Supports F Tyrrhenian Sea
A Silesia Supports A Munich - Berlin
A Tuscany Supports A Piedmont
A Tyrolia Supports A Bohemia - Munich
F Tyrrhenian Sea Supports F Ionian Sea - Tunis (*Cut*)
A Warsaw - Prussia
=============================================[Reply] |
| (DC 324) A Stab in the Dark *** GAME OVER *** (dc324) dknemeyer Aug 09, 09:45 pm |
Congrats to Scott and Paul on an excellent game. I wrote my EOG statement when I was eliminated:
EOG STATEMENTThis game is my first-ever elimination from a Diplomacy game, and I have to say it is the game that brought into focus both my strengths and weaknesses as a Dip player, hopefully in a way that helps me improve my weaknesses. First, my strengths: before the game I puzzled over the board as a tactical problem to be solved. In Austria and Germany I saw two countries that would start the game vulnerable but who would both present increasingly challenging opponents, sneaking through the hinterlands of Prussia, Silesia, Bohemia, Galicia, Ukraine...it was too much for a Tsar to bear! So I plotted out a campaign for smashing them, and smash them I did. There were some really nice moves in that campaigning. My apologies to both the Emperor and the Kaiser. It was obviously nothing personal!
Sadly, in the process, I exposed my biggest Dip weakness, my lack of a solid strategic game. Rather than fold that excellent campaign into a good strategic plan I simply crashed forward...and kept crashing forward. Rather than disbanding forward units that had wrecked my antagonists to protect my vulnerable lands at home when I had the chance, I kept them marauding in unsustainable places. You already know what happened as my home centers fell one after another: St. Petersburg, Sevastapol, Moscow, even fair Warsaw which seemed so remote and secure!
Of course, luck played a part in my demise. When I was still viable - even strong - I misordered a supported attack into Bel (instead of Bul!) which resulted in holds. Instead of gaining a center I LOST an extra center in the process! That was the backbreaker. The other bit of luck that conspired against me was in both England and Turkey pressing against me without mercy. If even one had gone in a different direction, or accepted a silent peace with me, the game would have gone very, very differently. A credit to them both, for wrecking me and insodoing contributing to their running away with the game.
I want to thank Chris for hosting the game: it would be a bitch to GM this thing! I look forward to playing again and will sign right up the next time this variant is offered. Thanks to all of the players - those of us who took our lumps and those who handed out the lumps - for playing a near-flawless game in terms of NMR's. My compliments to England and Turkey (not knowing who is going to win, as I write this at the moment of my bitter elimination!) Good times!
On Aug 9, 2010, at 10:37 PM, C Morse wrote:
GENTLEMEN, WE HAVE A WINNER!
Congratulations to Scott Hickey, aka Lequinian, for his solo victory as Turkey in A Stab in the Dark, the inaugural Gunboat Stab! game on the DC site.
Bittersweet congratulations are also in order for our second-place finisher, Paul Russell, who played a heck of a game himself. Paul, as England, just missed derailing the Turkish locomotive that in the early-to-mid-game seemed on track to an easy triumph.
Scott used a ton of skill throughout the game and just enough intuition in the final season to thwart England's final gambit. It was a fifty-fifty proposition in the last Fall season. Turkey had four units in defense against England's four units attacking. Would it be three on Munich and one on Berlin, or two for each? Scott guessed the latter and he guessed correctly, managing to bounce the English attacks in both supply centers and to claim his 18th dot in Munich while Berlin was left open.
Here are the orders that decided it all. (The complete set of orders can be found at the end of this message.)
England:
F Baltic Sea Supports A Kiel - Berlin
A Burgundy - Munich (*Bounce*)
A Kiel - Berlin (*Bounce*)
A Ruhr Supports A Burgundy - Munich
Turkey:
A Bohemia - Munich (*Bounce*)
A Munich - Berlin (*Bounce*)
A Silesia Supports A Munich - Berlin
A Tyrolia Supports A Bohemia - Munich
Tooth and nail to the end, I do believe that we would have had a stalemate if there had been no victory this year. As you can see from the attached maps, Turkey had just filled into Prussia, closing the last small gap in the two players' lines. I'm sure Paul is kicking himself for allowing Turkey to take Munich in the Spring, but hey, he took a calculated risk and it just didn't work. No shame there.
Cast of Characters (aka The Stab! All-Stars)
Austria - Scott "Packrat" Troemel - Eliminated 1903
England - Paul "Jehannum" Russell - Survival (16 SC)
France - Stephen "Deathblade Penguin" Lytton - Eliminated 1911
Germany - Jeffrey Krauss - Eliminated 1906
Italy - Michael "Psychosis" Thompson - Eliminated 1911
Russia - Dirk Knemeyer - Eliminated 1909
Turkey - Scott "Lequinian" Hickey - Solo Victory 1914 (18 SC)
List of Attachments
DC324_F14_Moves.gif ... so you can see how the last turn played out
DC324_F14_Game_Over.gif ... the final position showing Turkey's victory
DC324_F14.dpy ... the Realpolitik file. You can watch the whole game play out in a slideshow!
DC 324 Report.odt ... an open office word processing document that I kept for my own sake. Don't know how many of you will be able to open it, but if you can, you'll see how I tracked all the game moves -- what was seen, what was hidden, the complete support orders, etc.
GM's EOG Statement
I was first introduced to Stab! a few years back by a gentleman GM named Stephen Worthy (henceforth SW -- Hi Stephen!) from the Cat23 Diplomacy group. I was completely hooked after one turn. I liked gunboat. I really liked the semi-blind aspect, which let me try to be tricky in the dark and which really engaged my deductive powers trying to figure out where everyone's units were. I did rather well at it, too, which no doubt contributed to my enjoyment.
So, here it is a few years later and I decide that not only is it time I gave back and GM a game, but it's also my chance to revive Stab! on a new forum and find out whether I can get a bunch of new players hooked on it, too. Judging from the quickness with which the game filled up there was clearly strong interest. Not only strong interest, but a very strong group of players. I remember telling Mike Sims that I had a veritable all-star lineup. Even our "new face," Jeff Krauss, was fast proving his worth (just check out his standing in WB10), so I was expecting a great game and I'm very happy to say I wasn't disappointed.
Of course the GM has a uniquely omniscient perspective in a game like Stab! It was great fun to be able to watch each player tackle the problem of how to maneuver about in the dark. Russia and England and France, to name three examples, took advantage of the dark to quickly expand and attack opponents in non-traditional ways. Others were very conservative. Turkey, for instance, was very cautious. He couldn't know this, of course, but he repeatedly spent turns supporting himself in place against imaginary threats. If he had pushed on more boldly, I think there was a good chance he could have won the game easily 4 or 5 years earlier. Scroll through the Realpolitik file and see if you agree.
I don't want to step on the toes of the players' EOGS so I'm not going to speculate too much more on individual play. In general terms, though, it was signficant, I think, that it was our two witches who thrived best. In a somewhat chaotic world, is it a coincidence that it was the two countries considered highest in defensive strength that dominated in this game?
Think about that for a minute, and then check out these statistics. Combining this result with the outcomes from the four games SW has run, these are our outcomes:
CAT23 926: Russian win (year ??)
CAT23 1004: Turkey, England, France draw (year ??)
CAT23 1232: Turkish win (1912, 18 SC)CAT23 1233: Turkish win (1907, 20 SC)DC 324: Turkish win (1914, 18 SC)
That's three Turkish solos out of five games. I know, I know. It's not a large sample size, but still, it makes you want to look a little closer.
In 1233, Turkey was aided greatly by his neighbors Russia and Austria. The former opened by sending 3 of his 4 units towards Scandinavia, while the latter opened against Italy and Russia, ignoring Serbia and Greece altogether in 1901. Turkey roared out of the gate and was never checked as he rolled to a quick and decisive victory.
The other two Turkish victories were not that kind of win. Both were more typical examples of blind gunboat games, where play is understandably less efficient than in sighted games. However, it still seems fair to me to wonder whether or not that type of game environment might just offer inherent advantages to some countries. I'm sure we could have a wonderful debate on that very topic. (I know because I have.) My current feeling, though, is that rather than debate the topic, I'd like to see more data. I'd like to see more games completed AND ... I'd like to see more games played where the results given above are known ahead of time because, as we all know, we do adjust our games to compensate for the strengths and weaknesses of the various countries according to our knowledge of their past performance. My guess is that if I were to host another game of Stab! on DC within the next few months that Turkey would start the game with a giant bullseye on his back. And you know what? That's okay. If we play enough of these games we'll eventually build up a new set of expectations and strategies to deal with the situation that not all countries are created equal in Stab! land. Heck, they're not equal in standard Dip, so we've no right to complain if Stab! skews the balance in different ways than we're used to. Right?
Players EOG Statements
You can post your EOG statements directly to the game forum, or just email to all the people on this list and copy the dc324 forum as I've done on this message. If you choose to just reply to this message, please do us all the favor of deleting this original message text from your entry.
I know that Germany has already written his EOGS and I hope that more of you will follow suit. I'd love to hear about how you stabbed in the dark and tried to keep from getting stabbed. Comments on the game management (my part) and the game rules are welcome, too. As mentioned some time ago, I intend to expand quite a bit on Stab! entry the DipWiki. I'll need some time to collect all my notes, but when I do I will send them to all of you for your review and comments.
Farewell
I suppose as Diplomacy games go this one played out pretty quickly. Fourteen years in fifteen weeks is certainly no record, but I have to say it felt like longer. I can put out a typically gunboat adjudication in about 30 minutes. The BEST I ever did in Stab! was an hour, and typically it was 1.5 to 2 hours by the time I'd finished.
Rest assured that it was all a labor of love and I'd do it again. Not right away, but again. Thanks to all the players who did a wonderful job of keeping to -- and ahead of, in most cases -- the deadlines. One NMR in 14 years is pretty darn good, in my book. I hope you all enjoyed yourselves as much as I did hosting.
Cheers,
Chris
Orders as resolved for Fall 1914.
=============================================
England:
F Baltic Sea Supports A Kiel - Berlin
F Barents Sea Supports F St Petersburg(sc)
A Belgium - Norway
A Burgundy - Munich (*Bounce*)
F English Channel Hold
F Gulf of Lyon Supports A Marseilles - Piedmont
A Holland - Kiel (*Fails*)
A Kiel - Berlin (*Bounce*)
A Marseilles - Piedmont (*Fails*)
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean Hold
F North Africa Supports F Tunis
F North Sea Convoys A Belgium - Norway
A Ruhr Supports A Burgundy - Munich
F St Petersburg(sc) Hold
F Tunis Supports F Western Mediterranean - Tyrrhenian Sea (*Cut*)
F Western Mediterranean - Tyrrhenian Sea (*Fails*)
Turkey:
F Adriatic Sea - Ionian Sea (*Fails*)
A Armenia - STE (*Invalid*)
A Bohemia - Munich (*Bounce*)
A Bulgaria - Rumania
A Galicia - Warsaw
F Ionian Sea - Tunis (*Fails*)
A Livonia Supports A Moscow - St Petersburg
A Moscow - St Petersburg (*Fails*)
A Munich - Berlin (*Bounce*)
F Naples Supports F Tyrrhenian Sea
A Piedmont Supports A Tuscany (*Cut*)
F Rome Supports F Tyrrhenian Sea
A Silesia Supports A Munich - Berlin
A Tuscany Supports A Piedmont
A Tyrolia Supports A Bohemia - Munich
F Tyrrhenian Sea Supports F Ionian Sea - Tunis (*Cut*)
A Warsaw - Prussia
=============================================
<DC324_F14_moves.gif><DC324_F14_Game_Over.gif><DC324_F14.dpy><DC 324 Report.odt> |
| (DC 324) A Stab in the Dark *** GAME OVER *** (dc324) FuzzyLogic Aug 10, 07:13 am |
Wow a 4th solo for Scott in 8 games played. Incredible record. Congrats!
-mike
From: C Morse [mailto:camorse22(at)yahoo.com]
Sent: Mon 8/9/2010 9:37 PM
To: Chris Morse; Dirk Knemeyer; Jeffrey Krause; Michael Thompson; Paul Russell; Scott Packrat Troemel; Scott Hickey; Steve Lytton
Cc: dc324; Michael Sims; Stephen Worthy
Subject: (DC 324) A Stab in the Dark *** GAME OVER ***
GENTLEMEN, WE HAVE A WINNER!
Congratulations to Scott Hickey, aka Lequinian, for his solo victory as Turkey in A Stab in the Dark, the inaugural Gunboat Stab! game on the DC site.
Bittersweet congratulations are also in order for our second-place finisher, Paul Russell, who played a heck of a game himself. Paul, as England, just missed derailing the Turkish locomotive that in the early-to-mid-game seemed on track to an easy triumph.
Scott used a ton of skill throughout the game and just enough intuition in the final season to thwart England's final gambit. It was a fifty-fifty proposition in the last Fall season. Turkey had four units in defense against England's four units attacking. Would it be three on Munich and one on Berlin, or two for each? Scott guessed the latter and he guessed correctly, managing to bounce the English attacks in both supply centers and to claim his 18th dot in Munich while Berlin was left open.
Here are the orders that decided it all. (The complete set of orders can be found at the end of this message.)
England:
F Baltic Sea Supports A Kiel - Berlin
A Burgundy - Munich (*Bounce*)
A Kiel - Berlin (*Bounce*)
A Ruhr Supports A Burgundy - Munich
Turkey:
A Bohemia - Munich (*Bounce*)
A Munich - Berlin (*Bounce*)
A Silesia Supports A Munich - Berlin
A Tyrolia Supports A Bohemia - Munich
Tooth and nail to the end, I do believe that we would have had a stalemate if there had been no victory this year. As you can see from the attached maps, Turkey had just filled into Prussia, closing the last small gap in the two players' lines. I'm sure Paul is kicking himself for allowing Turkey to take Munich in the Spring, but hey, he took a calculated risk and it just didn't work. No shame there.
Cast of Characters (aka The Stab! All-Stars)
Austria - Scott "Packrat" Troemel - Eliminated 1903
England - Paul "Jehannum" Russell - Survival (16 SC)
France - Stephen "Deathblade Penguin" Lytton - Eliminated 1911
Germany - Jeffrey Krauss - Eliminated 1906
Italy - Michael "Psychosis" Thompson - Eliminated 1911
Russia - Dirk Knemeyer - Eliminated 1909
Turkey - Scott "Lequinian" Hickey - Solo Victory 1914 (18 SC)
List of Attachments
DC324_F14_Moves.gif ... so you can see how the last turn played out
DC324_F14_Game_Over.gif ... the final position showing Turkey's victory
DC324_F14.dpy ... the Realpolitik file. You can watch the whole game play out in a slideshow!
DC 324 Report.odt ... an open office word processing document that I kept for my own sake. Don't know how many of you will be able to open it, but if you can, you'll see how I tracked all the game moves -- what was seen, what was hidden, the complete support orders, etc.
GM's EOG Statement
I was first introduced to Stab! a few years back by a gentleman GM named Stephen Worthy (henceforth SW -- Hi Stephen!) from the Cat23 Diplomacy group. I was completely hooked after one turn. I liked gunboat. I really liked the semi-blind aspect, which let me try to be tricky in the dark and which really engaged my deductive powers trying to figure out where everyone's units were. I did rather well at it, too, which no doubt contributed to my enjoyment.
So, here it is a few years later and I decide that not only is it time I gave back and GM a game, but it's also my chance to revive Stab! on a new forum and find out whether I can get a bunch of new players hooked on it, too. Judging from the quickness with which the game filled up there was clearly strong interest. Not only strong interest, but a very strong group of players. I remember telling Mike Sims that I had a veritable all-star lineup. Even our "new face," Jeff Krauss, was fast proving his worth (just check out his standing in WB10), so I was expecting a great game and I'm very happy to say I wasn't disappointed.
Of course the GM has a uniquely omniscient perspective in a game like Stab! It was great fun to be able to watch each player tackle the problem of how to maneuver about in the dark. Russia and England and France, to name three examples, took advantage of the dark to quickly expand and attack opponents in non-traditional ways. Others were very conservative. Turkey, for instance, was very cautious. He couldn't know this, of course, but he repeatedly spent turns supporting himself in place against imaginary threats. If he had pushed on more boldly, I think there was a good chance he could have won the game easily 4 or 5 years earlier. Scroll through the Realpolitik file and see if you agree.
I don't want to step on the toes of the players' EOGS so I'm not going to speculate too much more on individual play. In general terms, though, it was signficant, I think, that it was our two witches who thrived best. In a somewhat chaotic world, is it a coincidence that it was the two countries considered highest in defensive strength that dominated in this game?
Think about that for a minute, and then check out these statistics. Combining this result with the outcomes from the four games SW has run, these are our outcomes:
CAT23 926: Russian win (year ??)
CAT23 1004: Turkey, England, France draw (year ??)
CAT23 1232: Turkish win (1912, 18 SC)
CAT23 1233: Turkish win (1907, 20 SC)DC 324: Turkish win (1914, 18 SC)
That's three Turkish solos out of five games. I know, I know. It's not a large sample size, but still, it makes you want to look a little closer.
In 1233, Turkey was aided greatly by his neighbors Russia and Austria. The former opened by sending 3 of his 4 units towards Scandinavia, while the latter opened against Italy and Russia, ignoring Serbia and Greece altogether in 1901. Turkey roared out of the gate and was never checked as he rolled to a quick and decisive victory.
The other two Turkish victories were not that kind of win. Both were more typical examples of blind gunboat games, where play is understandably less efficient than in sighted games. However, it still seems fair to me to wonder whether or not that type of game environment might just offer inherent advantages to some countries. I'm sure we could have a wonderful debate on that very topic. (I know because I have.) My current feeling, though, is that rather than debate the topic, I'd like to see more data. I'd like to see more games completed AND ... I'd like to see more games played where the results given above are known ahead of time because, as we all know, we do adjust our games to compensate for the strengths and weaknesses of the various countries according to our knowledge of their past performance. My guess is that if I were to host another game of Stab! on DC within the next few months that Turkey would start the game with a giant bullseye on his back. And you know what? That's okay. If we play enough of these games we'll eventually build up a new set of expectations and strategies to deal with the situation that not all countries are created equal in Stab! land. Heck, they're not equal in standard Dip, so we've no right to complain if Stab! skews the balance in different ways than we're used to. Right?
Players EOG Statements
You can post your EOG statements directly to the game forum, or just email to all the people on this list and copy the dc324 forum as I've done on this message. If you choose to just reply to this message, please do us all the favor of deleting this original message text from your entry.
I know that Germany has already written his EOGS and I hope that more of you will follow suit. I'd love to hear about how you stabbed in the dark and tried to keep from getting stabbed. Comments on the game management (my part) and the game rules are welcome, too. As mentioned some time ago, I intend to expand quite a bit on Stab! entry the DipWiki. I'll need some time to collect all my notes, but when I do I will send them to all of you for your review and comments.
Farewell
I suppose as Diplomacy games go this one played out pretty quickly. Fourteen years in fifteen weeks is certainly no record, but I have to say it felt like longer. I can put out a typically gunboat adjudication in about 30 minutes. The BEST I ever did in Stab! was an hour, and typically it was 1.5 to 2 hours by the time I'd finished.
Rest assured that it was all a labor of love and I'd do it again. Not right away, but again. Thanks to all the players who did a wonderful job of keeping to -- and ahead of, in most cases -- the deadlines. One NMR in 14 years is pretty darn good, in my book. I hope you all enjoyed yourselves as much as I did hosting.
Cheers,
Chris
Orders as resolved for Fall 1914.
=============================================
England:
F Baltic Sea Supports A Kiel - Berlin
F Barents Sea Supports F St Petersburg(sc)
A Belgium - Norway
A Burgundy - Munich (*Bounce*)
F English Channel Hold
F Gulf of Lyon Supports A Marseilles - Piedmont
A Holland - Kiel (*Fails*)
A Kiel - Berlin (*Bounce*)
A Marseilles - Piedmont (*Fails*)
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean Hold
F North Africa Supports F Tunis
F North Sea Convoys A Belgium - Norway
A Ruhr Supports A Burgundy - Munich
F St Petersburg(sc) Hold
F Tunis Supports F Western Mediterranean - Tyrrhenian Sea (*Cut*)
F Western Mediterranean - Tyrrhenian Sea (*Fails*)
Turkey:
F Adriatic Sea - Ionian Sea (*Fails*)
A Armenia - STE (*Invalid*)
A Bohemia - Munich (*Bounce*)
A Bulgaria - Rumania
A Galicia - Warsaw
F Ionian Sea - Tunis (*Fails*)
A Livonia Supports A Moscow - St Petersburg
A Moscow - St Petersburg (*Fails*)
A Munich - Berlin (*Bounce*)
F Naples Supports F Tyrrhenian Sea
A Piedmont Supports A Tuscany (*Cut*)
F Rome Supports F Tyrrhenian Sea
A Silesia Supports A Munich - Berlin
A Tuscany Supports A Piedmont
A Tyrolia Supports A Bohemia - Munich
F Tyrrhenian Sea Supports F Ionian Sea - Tunis (*Cut*)
A Warsaw - Prussia
============================================= |
| (DC 324) A Stab in the Dark *** GAME OVER *** (dc324) packrat Aug 10, 07:22 am |
NICE! Why don't ya just paint a target on the guys back while you're at it.
That's part of what fueled my slow exodus away from the hobby. Far too
many games wound up being "get Packrat" fests. And, no, it isn't paranoia,
I've had more than one player tell me that they came after me because of
the either the reputation or, in the case of DC, because of the ratings.
Congratulations for sure, and it is certainly IS an incredible record, but
when you point it out, you paint the target.
From:
Michael Sims <mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net>
To: C Morse <camorse22(at)yahoo.com>; Dirk Knemeyer <dirk(at)knemeyer.com>; Jeffrey Krause <diplomacy(at)jeffreyk.com>; Michael Thompson <psychosis(at)sky.com>; Paul Russell <jehannum_raver(at)yahoo.com>; Scott Packrat Troemel <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com>; Scott Hickey <thase+dipcorp(at)dalarin.net>; Steve Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>
Cc: dc324 <dc324(at)diplomaticcorp.com>; Stephen Worthy <stephenworthy(at)rocketmail.com>
Sent: Tue, August 10, 2010 8:13:38 AM
Subject: RE: (DC 324) A Stab in the Dark *** GAME OVER ***
Wow a 4th solo for Scott in 8 games played. Incredible record. Congrats!
-mike
From: C Morse [mailto:camorse22(at)yahoo.com]
Sent: Mon 8/9/2010 9:37 PM
To: Chris Morse; Dirk Knemeyer; Jeffrey Krause; Michael Thompson; Paul Russell; Scott Packrat Troemel; Scott Hickey; Steve Lytton
Cc: dc324; Michael Sims; Stephen Worthy
Subject: (DC 324) A Stab in the Dark *** GAME OVER ***
GENTLEMEN, WE HAVE A WINNER!
Congratulations to Scott Hickey, aka Lequinian, for his solo victory as Turkey in A Stab in the Dark, the inaugural Gunboat Stab! game on the DC site.
Bittersweet congratulations are also in order for our second-place finisher, Paul Russell, who played a heck of a game himself. Paul, as England, just missed derailing the Turkish locomotive that in the early-to-mid-game seemed on track to an easy triumph.
Scott used a ton of skill throughout the game and just enough intuition in the final season to thwart England's final gambit. It was a fifty-fifty proposition in the last Fall season. Turkey had four units in defense against England's four units attacking. Would it be three on Munich and one on Berlin, or two for each? Scott guessed the latter and he guessed correctly, managing to bounce the English attacks in both supply centers
and to claim his 18th dot in Munich while Berlin was left open.
Here are the orders that decided it all. (The complete set of orders can be found at the end of this message.)
England:
F Baltic Sea Supports A Kiel - Berlin
A Burgundy - Munich (*Bounce*)
A Kiel - Berlin (*Bounce*)
A Ruhr Supports A Burgundy - Munich
Turkey:
A Bohemia - Munich (*Bounce*)
A Munich - Berlin (*Bounce*)
A Silesia Supports A Munich - Berlin
A Tyrolia Supports A Bohemia - Munich
Tooth and nail to the end, I do believe that we would have had a stalemate if there had been no victory this year. As you can see from the attached maps, Turkey had just filled into Prussia, closing the last small gap in the two players' lines. I'm sure Paul is kicking himself for allowing Turkey to take Munich in the Spring, but hey, he took a calculated risk and it just didn't work. No shame there.
Cast of Characters (aka The Stab! All-Stars)
Austria - Scott "Packrat" Troemel - Eliminated 1903
England - Paul "Jehannum" Russell - Survival (16 SC)
France - Stephen "Deathblade Penguin" Lytton - Eliminated 1911
Germany - Jeffrey Krauss - Eliminated 1906
Italy - Michael "Psychosis" Thompson - Eliminated 1911
Russia - Dirk Knemeyer - Eliminated 1909
Turkey - Scott "Lequinian" Hickey - Solo Victory 1914 (18 SC)
List of Attachments
DC324_F14_Moves.gif ... so you can see how the last turn played out
DC324_F14_Game_Over.gif ... the final position showing Turkey's victory
DC324_F14.dpy ... the Realpolitik file. You can watch the whole game play out in a slideshow!
DC 324 Report.odt ... an open office word processing document that I kept for my own sake. Don't know how many of you
will be able to open it, but if you can, you'll see how I tracked all the game moves -- what was seen, what was hidden, the complete support orders, etc.
GM's EOG Statement
I was first introduced to Stab! a few years back by a gentleman GM named Stephen Worthy (henceforth SW -- Hi Stephen!) from the Cat23 Diplomacy group. I was completely hooked after one turn. I liked gunboat. I really liked the semi-blind aspect, which let me try to be tricky in the dark and which really engaged my deductive powers trying to figure out where everyone's units were. I did rather well at it, too, which no doubt contributed to my enjoyment.
So, here it is a few years later and I decide that not only is it time I gave back and GM a game, but it's also my chance to revive Stab! on a new forum and find out whether I can get a bunch of new players
hooked on it, too. Judging from the quickness with which the game filled up there was clearly strong interest. Not only strong interest, but a very strong group of players. I remember telling Mike Sims that I had a veritable all-star lineup. Even our "new face," Jeff Krauss, was fast proving his worth (just check out his standing in WB10), so I was expecting a great game and I'm very happy to say I wasn't disappointed.
Of course the GM has a uniquely omniscient perspective in a game like Stab! It was great fun to be able to watch each player tackle the problem of how to maneuver about in the dark. Russia and England and France, to name three examples, took advantage of the dark to quickly expand and attack opponents in non-traditional ways. Others were very conservative. Turkey, for instance, was very cautious. He couldn't know this, of course, but he repeatedly spent turns supporting himself
in place against imaginary threats. If he had pushed on more boldly, I think there was a good chance he could have won the game easily 4 or 5 years earlier. Scroll through the Realpolitik file and see if you agree.
I don't want to step on the toes of the players' EOGS so I'm not going to speculate too much more on individual play. In general terms, though, it was signficant, I think, that it was our two witches who thrived best. In a somewhat chaotic world, is it a coincidence that it was the two countries considered highest in defensive strength that dominated in this game?
Think about that for a minute, and then check out these statistics. Combining this result with the outcomes from the four games SW has run, these are our outcomes:
CAT23 926: Russian win (year ??)
CAT23 1004: Turkey, England, France draw (year ??)
CAT23 1232: Turkish win (1912, 18 SC)
CAT23 1233: Turkish win (1907, 20 SC)DC 324: Turkish win (1914, 18 SC)
That's three Turkish solos out of five games. I know, I know. It's not a large sample size, but still, it makes you want to look a little closer.
In 1233, Turkey was aided greatly by his neighbors Russia and Austria. The former opened by sending 3 of his 4 units towards Scandinavia, while the latter opened against Italy and Russia, ignoring Serbia and Greece altogether in 1901. Turkey roared out of the gate and was never checked as he rolled to a quick and decisive victory.
The other two Turkish victories were not that kind of win. Both were more typical examples of blind gunboat games, where play is understandably less efficient than in sighted games. However, it still seems fair to me to wonder whether or not that type of game environment might just offer inherent advantages to some
countries. I'm sure we could have a wonderful debate on that very topic. (I know because I have.) My current feeling, though, is that rather than debate the topic, I'd like to see more data. I'd like to see more games completed AND ... I'd like to see more games played where the results given above are known ahead of time because, as we all know, we do adjust our games to compensate for the strengths and weaknesses of the various countries according to our knowledge of their past performance. My guess is that if I were to host another game of Stab! on DC within the next few months that Turkey would start the game with a giant bullseye on his back. And you know what? That's okay. If we play enough of these games we'll eventually build up a new set of expectations and strategies to deal with the situation that not all countries are created equal in Stab! land. Heck, they're not equal in standard Dip,
so we've no right to complain if Stab! skews the balance in different ways than we're used to. Right?
Players EOG Statements
You can post your EOG statements directly to the game forum, or just email to all the people on this list and copy the dc324 forum as I've done on this message. If you choose to just reply to this message, please do us all the favor of deleting this original message text from your entry.
I know that Germany has already written his EOGS and I hope that more of you will follow suit. I'd love to hear about how you stabbed in the dark and tried to keep from getting stabbed. Comments on the game management (my part) and the game rules are welcome, too. As mentioned some time ago, I intend to expand quite a bit on Stab! entry the DipWiki. I'll need some time to collect all my notes, but when I do I
will send them to all of you for your review and comments.
Farewell
I suppose as Diplomacy games go this one played out pretty quickly. Fourteen years in fifteen weeks is certainly no record, but I have to say it felt like longer. I can put out a typically gunboat adjudication in about 30 minutes. The BEST I ever did in Stab! was an hour, and typically it was 1.5 to 2 hours by the time I'd finished.
Rest assured that it was all a labor of love and I'd do it again. Not right away, but again. Thanks to all the players who did a wonderful job of keeping to -- and ahead of, in most cases -- the deadlines. One NMR in 14 years is pretty darn good, in my book. I hope you all enjoyed yourselves as much as I did hosting.
Cheers,
Chris
Orders as resolved for Fall
1914.
=============================================
England:
F Baltic Sea Supports A Kiel - Berlin
F Barents Sea Supports F St Petersburg(sc)
A Belgium - Norway
A Burgundy - Munich (*Bounce*)
F English Channel Hold
F Gulf of Lyon Supports A Marseilles - Piedmont
A Holland - Kiel (*Fails*)
A Kiel - Berlin (*Bounce*)
A Marseilles - Piedmont (*Fails*)
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean Hold
F North Africa Supports F Tunis
F North Sea Convoys A Belgium - Norway
A Ruhr Supports A Burgundy - Munich
F St Petersburg(sc) Hold
F Tunis Supports F Western Mediterranean - Tyrrhenian Sea (*Cut*)
F Western Mediterranean - Tyrrhenian Sea (*Fails*)
Turkey:
F Adriatic Sea - Ionian Sea (*Fails*)
A Armenia - STE (*Invalid*)
A Bohemia - Munich (*Bounce*)
A Bulgaria - Rumania
A Galicia - Warsaw
F Ionian Sea - Tunis (*Fails*)
A Livonia Supports A Moscow - St Petersburg
A Moscow - St Petersburg
(*Fails*)
A Munich - Berlin (*Bounce*)
F Naples Supports F Tyrrhenian Sea
A Piedmont Supports A Tuscany (*Cut*)
F Rome Supports F Tyrrhenian Sea
A Silesia Supports A Munich - Berlin
A Tuscany Supports A Piedmont
A Tyrolia Supports A Bohemia - Munich
F Tyrrhenian Sea Supports F Ionian Sea - Tunis (*Cut*)
A Warsaw - Prussia
============================================= |
| (DC 324) A Stab in the Dark *** GAME OVER *** (dc324) FuzzyLogic Aug 10, 07:23 am |
Hey gotta share the target when you can. I certainly dont mind if someone besides me carries that thing for a while, it's heavy!
From: Packrat [mailto:brn2dip(at)yahoo.com]
Sent: Tue 8/10/2010 7:22 AM
To: Michael Sims; C Morse; Dirk Knemeyer; Jeffrey Krause; Michael Thompson; Paul Russell; Scott Hickey; Steve Lytton
Cc: dc324; Stephen Worthy
Subject: Re: (DC 324) A Stab in the Dark *** GAME OVER ***
NICE! Why don't ya just paint a target on the guys back while you're at it.
That's part of what fueled my slow exodus away from the hobby. Far too
many games wound up being "get Packrat" fests. And, no, it isn't paranoia,
I've had more than one player tell me that they came after me because of
the either the reputation or, in the case of DC, because of the ratings.
Congratulations for sure, and it is certainly IS an incredible record, but
when you point it out, you paint the target.
From: Michael Sims <mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net>
To: C Morse <camorse22(at)yahoo.com>; Dirk Knemeyer <dirk(at)knemeyer.com>; Jeffrey Krause <diplomacy(at)jeffreyk.com>; Michael Thompson <psychosis(at)sky.com>; Paul Russell <jehannum_raver(at)yahoo.com>; Scott Packrat Troemel <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com>; Scott Hickey <thase+dipcorp(at)dalarin.net>; Steve Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>
Cc: dc324 <dc324(at)diplomaticcorp.com>; Stephen Worthy <stephenworthy(at)rocketmail.com>
Sent: Tue, August 10, 2010 8:13:38 AM
Subject: RE: (DC 324) A Stab in the Dark *** GAME OVER ***
Wow a 4th solo for Scott in 8 games played. Incredible record. Congrats!
-mike
From: C Morse [mailto:camorse22(at)yahoo.com]
Sent: Mon 8/9/2010 9:37 PM
To: Chris Morse; Dirk Knemeyer; Jeffrey Krause; Michael Thompson; Paul Russell; Scott Packrat Troemel; Scott Hickey; Steve Lytton
Cc: dc324; Michael Sims; Stephen Worthy
Subject: (DC 324) A Stab in the Dark *** GAME OVER ***
GENTLEMEN, WE HAVE A WINNER!
Congratulations to Scott Hickey, aka Lequinian, for his solo victory as Turkey in A Stab in the Dark, the inaugural Gunboat Stab! game on the DC site.
Bittersweet congratulations are also in order for our second-place finisher, Paul Russell, who played a heck of a game himself. Paul, as England, just missed derailing the Turkish locomotive that in the early-to-mid-game seemed on track to an easy triumph.
Scott used a ton of skill throughout the game and just enough intuition in the final season to thwart England's final gambit. It was a fifty-fifty proposition in the last Fall season. Turkey had four units in defense against England's four units attacking. Would it be three on Munich and one on Berlin, or two for each? Scott guessed the latter and he guessed correctly, managing to bounce the English attacks in both supply centers and to claim his 18th dot in Munich while Berlin was left open.
Here are the orders that decided it all. (The complete set of orders can be found at the end of this message.)
England:
F Baltic Sea Supports A Kiel - Berlin
A Burgundy - Munich (*Bounce*)
A Kiel - Berlin (*Bounce*)
A Ruhr Supports A Burgundy - Munich
Turkey:
A Bohemia - Munich (*Bounce*)
A Munich - Berlin (*Bounce*)
A Silesia Supports A Munich - Berlin
A Tyrolia Supports A Bohemia - Munich
Tooth and nail to the end, I do believe that we would have had a stalemate if there had been no victory this year. As you can see from the attached maps, Turkey had just filled into Prussia, closing the last small gap in the two players' lines. I'm sure Paul is kicking himself for allowing Turkey to take Munich in the Spring, but hey, he took a calculated risk and it just didn't work. No shame there.
Cast of Characters (aka The Stab! All-Stars)
Austria - Scott "Packrat" Troemel - Eliminated 1903
England - Paul "Jehannum" Russell - Survival (16 SC)
France - Stephen "Deathblade Penguin" Lytton - Eliminated 1911
Germany - Jeffrey Krauss - Eliminated 1906
Italy - Michael "Psychosis" Thompson - Eliminated 1911
Russia - Dirk Knemeyer - Eliminated 1909
Turkey - Scott "Lequinian" Hickey - Solo Victory 1914 (18 SC)
List of Attachments
DC324_F14_Moves.gif ... so you can see how the last turn played out
DC324_F14_Game_Over.gif ... the final position showing Turkey's victory
DC324_F14.dpy ... the Realpolitik file. You can watch the whole game play out in a slideshow!
DC 324 Report.odt ... an open office word processing document that I kept for my own sake. Don't know how many of you will be able to open it, but if you can, you'll see how I tracked all the game moves -- what was seen, what was hidden, the complete support orders, etc.
GM's EOG Statement
I was first introduced to Stab! a few years back by a gentleman GM named Stephen Worthy (henceforth SW -- Hi Stephen!) from the Cat23 Diplomacy group. I was completely hooked after one turn. I liked gunboat. I really liked the semi-blind aspect, which let me try to be tricky in the dark and which really engaged my deductive powers trying to figure out where everyone's units were. I did rather well at it, too, which no doubt contributed to my enjoyment.
So, here it is a few years later and I decide that not only is it time I gave back and GM a game, but it's also my chance to revive Stab! on a new forum and find out whether I can get a bunch of new players hooked on it, too. Judging from the quickness with which the game filled up there was clearly strong interest. Not only strong interest, but a very strong group of players. I remember telling Mike Sims that I had a veritable all-star lineup. Even our "new face," Jeff Krauss, was fast proving his worth (just check out his standing in WB10), so I was expecting a great game and I'm very happy to say I wasn't disappointed.
Of course the GM has a uniquely omniscient perspective in a game like Stab! It was great fun to be able to watch each player tackle the problem of how to maneuver about in the dark. Russia and England and France, to name three examples, took advantage of the dark to quickly expand and attack opponents in non-traditional ways. Others were very conservative. Turkey, for instance, was very cautious. He couldn't know this, of course, but he repeatedly spent turns supporting himself in place against imaginary threats. If he had pushed on more boldly, I think there was a good chance he could have won the game easily 4 or 5 years earlier. Scroll through the Realpolitik file and see if you agree.
I don't want to step on the toes of the players' EOGS so I'm not going to speculate too much more on individual play. In general terms, though, it was signficant, I think, that it was our two witches who thrived best. In a somewhat chaotic world, is it a coincidence that it was the two countries considered highest in defensive strength that dominated in this game?
Think about that for a minute, and then check out these statistics. Combining this result with the outcomes from the four games SW has run, these are our outcomes:
CAT23 926: Russian win (year ??)
CAT23 1004: Turkey, England, France draw (year ??)
CAT23 1232: Turkish win (1912, 18 SC)
CAT23 1233: Turkish win (1907, 20 SC)DC 324: Turkish win (1914, 18 SC)
That's three Turkish solos out of five games. I know, I know. It's not a large sample size, but still, it makes you want to look a little closer.
In 1233, Turkey was aided greatly by his neighbors Russia and Austria. The former opened by sending 3 of his 4 units towards Scandinavia, while the latter opened against Italy and Russia, ignoring Serbia and Greece altogether in 1901. Turkey roared out of the gate and was never checked as he rolled to a quick and decisive victory.
The other two Turkish victories were not that kind of win. Both were more typical examples of blind gunboat games, where play is understandably less efficient than in sighted games. However, it still seems fair to me to wonder whether or not that type of game environment might just offer inherent advantages to some countries. I'm sure we could have a wonderful debate on that very topic. (I know because I have.) My current feeling, though, is that rather than debate the topic, I'd like to see more data. I'd like to see more games completed AND ... I'd like to see more games played where the results given above are known ahead of time because, as we all know, we do adjust our games to compensate for the strengths and weaknesses of the various countries according to our knowledge of their past performance. My guess is that if I were to host another game of Stab! on DC within the next few months that Turkey would start the game with a giant bullseye on his back. And you know what? That's okay. If we play enough of these games we'll eventually build up a new set of expectations and strategies to deal with the situation that not all countries are created equal in Stab! land. Heck, they're not equal in standard Dip, so we've no right to complain if Stab! skews the balance in different ways than we're used to. Right?
Players EOG Statements
You can post your EOG statements directly to the game forum, or just email to all the people on this list and copy the dc324 forum as I've done on this message. If you choose to just reply to this message, please do us all the favor of deleting this original message text from your entry.
I know that Germany has already written his EOGS and I hope that more of you will follow suit. I'd love to hear about how you stabbed in the dark and tried to keep from getting stabbed. Comments on the game management (my part) and the game rules are welcome, too. As mentioned some time ago, I intend to expand quite a bit on Stab! entry the DipWiki. I'll need some time to collect all my notes, but when I do I will send them to all of you for your review and comments.
Farewell
I suppose as Diplomacy games go this one played out pretty quickly. Fourteen years in fifteen weeks is certainly no record, but I have to say it felt like longer. I can put out a typically gunboat adjudication in about 30 minutes. The BEST I ever did in Stab! was an hour, and typically it was 1.5 to 2 hours by the time I'd finished.
Rest assured that it was all a labor of love and I'd do it again. Not right away, but again. Thanks to all the players who did a wonderful job of keeping to -- and ahead of, in most cases -- the deadlines. One NMR in 14 years is pretty darn good, in my book. I hope you all enjoyed yourselves as much as I did hosting.
Cheers,
Chris
Orders as resolved for Fall 1914.
=============================================
England:
F Baltic Sea Supports A Kiel - Berlin
F Barents Sea Supports F St Petersburg(sc)
A Belgium - Norway
A Burgundy - Munich (*Bounce*)
F English Channel Hold
F Gulf of Lyon Supports A Marseilles - Piedmont
A Holland - Kiel (*Fails*)
A Kiel - Berlin (*Bounce*)
A Marseilles - Piedmont (*Fails*)
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean Hold
F North Africa Supports F Tunis
F North Sea Convoys A Belgium - Norway
A Ruhr Supports A Burgundy - Munich
F St Petersburg(sc) Hold
F Tunis Supports F Western Mediterranean - Tyrrhenian Sea (*Cut*)
F Western Mediterranean - Tyrrhenian Sea (*Fails*)
Turkey:
F Adriatic Sea - Ionian Sea (*Fails*)
A Armenia - STE (*Invalid*)
A Bohemia - Munich (*Bounce*)
A Bulgaria - Rumania
A Galicia - Warsaw
F Ionian Sea - Tunis (*Fails*)
A Livonia Supports A Moscow - St Petersburg
A Moscow - St Petersburg (*Fails*)
A Munich - Berlin (*Bounce*)
F Naples Supports F Tyrrhenian Sea
A Piedmont Supports A Tuscany (*Cut*)
F Rome Supports F Tyrrhenian Sea
A Silesia Supports A Munich - Berlin
A Tuscany Supports A Piedmont
A Tyrolia Supports A Bohemia - Munich
F Tyrrhenian Sea Supports F Ionian Sea - Tunis (*Cut*)
A Warsaw - Prussia
============================================= |
| (DC 324) A Stab in the Dark *** GAME OVER *** (dc324) packrat Aug 10, 07:32 am |
No argument here on that!!
From: Michael Sims <mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com>; C Morse <camorse22(at)yahoo.com>; Dirk Knemeyer <dirk(at)knemeyer.com>; Jeffrey Krause <diplomacy(at)jeffreyk.com>; Michael Thompson <psychosis(at)sky.com>; Paul Russell <jehannum_raver(at)yahoo.com>; Scott Hickey <thase+dipcorp(at)dalarin.net>; Steve Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>
Cc: dc324
<dc324(at)diplomaticcorp.com>; Stephen Worthy <stephenworthy(at)rocketmail.com>
Sent: Tue, August 10, 2010 8:23:40 AM
Subject: RE: (DC 324) A Stab in the Dark *** GAME OVER ***
Hey gotta share the target when you can. I certainly dont mind if someone besides me carries that thing for a while, it's heavy!
From: Packrat [mailto:brn2dip(at)yahoo.com]
Sent: Tue 8/10/2010 7:22 AM
To: Michael Sims; C Morse; Dirk Knemeyer; Jeffrey Krause; Michael Thompson; Paul Russell; Scott Hickey; Steve Lytton
Cc: dc324; Stephen Worthy
Subject: Re: (DC 324) A Stab in the Dark *** GAME OVER ***
NICE! Why don't ya just paint a target on the guys back while you're at it.
That's part of what fueled my slow exodus away from the hobby. Far too
many games wound up being "get Packrat" fests. And, no, it isn't paranoia,
I've had more than one player tell me that they came after me because of
the either the reputation or, in the case of DC, because of the ratings.
Congratulations for sure, and it is certainly IS an incredible record, but
when you point it out, you paint the target.
From: Michael Sims <mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net>
To: C Morse <camorse22(at)yahoo.com>; Dirk Knemeyer <dirk(at)knemeyer.com>; Jeffrey Krause <diplomacy(at)jeffreyk.com>; Michael Thompson <psychosis(at)sky.com>; Paul Russell <jehannum_raver(at)yahoo.com>; Scott Packrat Troemel <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com>; Scott Hickey <thase+dipcorp(at)dalarin.net>; Steve Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>
Cc: dc324 <dc324(at)diplomaticcorp.com>; Stephen Worthy <stephenworthy(at)rocketmail.com>
Sent: Tue, August 10, 2010 8:13:38 AM
Subject: RE: (DC 324) A Stab in the Dark *** GAME OVER ***
Wow a 4th solo for Scott in 8 games played. Incredible record. Congrats!
-mike
From: C Morse [mailto:camorse22(at)yahoo.com]
Sent: Mon 8/9/2010 9:37 PM
To: Chris Morse; Dirk Knemeyer; Jeffrey Krause; Michael Thompson; Paul Russell; Scott Packrat Troemel; Scott Hickey; Steve Lytton
Cc: dc324; Michael Sims; Stephen Worthy
Subject: (DC 324) A Stab in the Dark *** GAME OVER ***
GENTLEMEN, WE HAVE A WINNER!
Congratulations to Scott Hickey, aka Lequinian, for his solo victory as Turkey in A Stab in the Dark, the inaugural Gunboat Stab! game on the DC site.
Bittersweet congratulations are also in order for our second-place finisher, Paul Russell, who played a heck of a game himself. Paul, as England, just missed derailing the Turkish locomotive that in the early-to-mid-game seemed on track to an easy triumph.
Scott used a ton of skill throughout the game and just enough intuition in the final season to thwart England's final gambit. It was a fifty-fifty proposition in the last Fall season. Turkey had four units in defense against England's four units attacking. Would it be three on Munich and one on Berlin, or two for each? Scott guessed the latter and he guessed correctly, managing to bounce the English attacks in both supply centers
and to claim his 18th dot in Munich while Berlin was left open.
Here are the orders that decided it all. (The complete set of orders can be found at the end of this message.)
England:
F Baltic Sea Supports A Kiel - Berlin
A Burgundy - Munich (*Bounce*)
A Kiel - Berlin (*Bounce*)
A Ruhr Supports A Burgundy - Munich
Turkey:
A Bohemia - Munich (*Bounce*)
A Munich - Berlin (*Bounce*)
A Silesia Supports A Munich - Berlin
A Tyrolia Supports A Bohemia - Munich
Tooth and nail to the end, I do believe that we would have had a stalemate if there had been no victory this year. As you can see from the attached maps, Turkey had just filled into Prussia, closing the last small gap in the two players' lines. I'm sure Paul is kicking himself for allowing Turkey to take Munich in the Spring, but hey, he took a calculated risk and it just didn't work. No shame there.
Cast of Characters (aka The Stab! All-Stars)
Austria - Scott "Packrat" Troemel - Eliminated 1903
England - Paul "Jehannum" Russell - Survival (16 SC)
France - Stephen "Deathblade Penguin" Lytton - Eliminated 1911
Germany - Jeffrey Krauss - Eliminated 1906
Italy - Michael "Psychosis" Thompson - Eliminated 1911
Russia - Dirk Knemeyer - Eliminated 1909
Turkey - Scott "Lequinian" Hickey - Solo Victory 1914 (18 SC)
List of Attachments
DC324_F14_Moves.gif ... so you can see how the last turn played out
DC324_F14_Game_Over.gif ... the final position showing Turkey's victory
DC324_F14.dpy ... the Realpolitik file. You can watch the whole game play out in a slideshow!
DC 324 Report.odt ... an open office word processing document that I kept for my own sake. Don't know how many of you
will be able to open it, but if you can, you'll see how I tracked all the game moves -- what was seen, what was hidden, the complete support orders, etc.
GM's EOG Statement
I was first introduced to Stab! a few years back by a gentleman GM named Stephen Worthy (henceforth SW -- Hi Stephen!) from the Cat23 Diplomacy group. I was completely hooked after one turn. I liked gunboat. I really liked the semi-blind aspect, which let me try to be tricky in the dark and which really engaged my deductive powers trying to figure out where everyone's units were. I did rather well at it, too, which no doubt contributed to my enjoyment.
So, here it is a few years later and I decide that not only is it time I gave back and GM a game, but it's also my chance to revive Stab! on a new forum and find out whether I can get a bunch of new players
hooked on it, too. Judging from the quickness with which the game filled up there was clearly strong interest. Not only strong interest, but a very strong group of players. I remember telling Mike Sims that I had a veritable all-star lineup. Even our "new face," Jeff Krauss, was fast proving his worth (just check out his standing in WB10), so I was expecting a great game and I'm very happy to say I wasn't disappointed.
Of course the GM has a uniquely omniscient perspective in a game like Stab! It was great fun to be able to watch each player tackle the problem of how to maneuver about in the dark. Russia and England and France, to name three examples, took advantage of the dark to quickly expand and attack opponents in non-traditional ways. Others were very conservative. Turkey, for instance, was very cautious. He couldn't know this, of course, but he repeatedly spent turns supporting himself
in place against imaginary threats. If he had pushed on more boldly, I think there was a good chance he could have won the game easily 4 or 5 years earlier. Scroll through the Realpolitik file and see if you agree.
I don't want to step on the toes of the players' EOGS so I'm not going to speculate too much more on individual play. In general terms, though, it was signficant, I think, that it was our two witches who thrived best. In a somewhat chaotic world, is it a coincidence that it was the two countries considered highest in defensive strength that dominated in this game?
Think about that for a minute, and then check out these statistics. Combining this result with the outcomes from the four games SW has run, these are our outcomes:
CAT23 926: Russian win (year ??)
CAT23 1004: Turkey, England, France draw (year ??)
CAT23 1232: Turkish win (1912, 18 SC)
CAT23 1233: Turkish win (1907, 20 SC)DC 324: Turkish win (1914, 18 SC)
That's three Turkish solos out of five games. I know, I know. It's not a large sample size, but still, it makes you want to look a little closer.
In 1233, Turkey was aided greatly by his neighbors Russia and Austria. The former opened by sending 3 of his 4 units towards Scandinavia, while the latter opened against Italy and Russia, ignoring Serbia and Greece altogether in 1901. Turkey roared out of the gate and was never checked as he rolled to a quick and decisive victory.
The other two Turkish victories were not that kind of win. Both were more typical examples of blind gunboat games, where play is understandably less efficient than in sighted games. However, it still seems fair to me to wonder whether or not that type of game environment might just offer inherent advantages to some
countries. I'm sure we could have a wonderful debate on that very topic. (I know because I have.) My current feeling, though, is that rather than debate the topic, I'd like to see more data. I'd like to see more games completed AND ... I'd like to see more games played where the results given above are known ahead of time because, as we all know, we do adjust our games to compensate for the strengths and weaknesses of the various countries according to our knowledge of their past performance. My guess is that if I were to host another game of Stab! on DC within the next few months that Turkey would start the game with a giant bullseye on his back. And you know what? That's okay. If we play enough of these games we'll eventually build up a new set of expectations and strategies to deal with the situation that not all countries are created equal in Stab! land. Heck, they're not equal in standard Dip,
so we've no right to complain if Stab! skews the balance in different ways than we're used to. Right?
Players EOG Statements
You can post your EOG statements directly to the game forum, or just email to all the people on this list and copy the dc324 forum as I've done on this message. If you choose to just reply to this message, please do us all the favor of deleting this original message text from your entry.
I know that Germany has already written his EOGS and I hope that more of you will follow suit. I'd love to hear about how you stabbed in the dark and tried to keep from getting stabbed. Comments on the game management (my part) and the game rules are welcome, too. As mentioned some time ago, I intend to expand quite a bit on Stab! entry the DipWiki. I'll need some time to collect all my notes, but when I do I
will send them to all of you for your review and comments.
Farewell
I suppose as Diplomacy games go this one played out pretty quickly. Fourteen years in fifteen weeks is certainly no record, but I have to say it felt like longer. I can put out a typically gunboat adjudication in about 30 minutes. The BEST I ever did in Stab! was an hour, and typically it was 1.5 to 2 hours by the time I'd finished.
Rest assured that it was all a labor of love and I'd do it again. Not right away, but again. Thanks to all the players who did a wonderful job of keeping to -- and ahead of, in most cases -- the deadlines. One NMR in 14 years is pretty darn good, in my book. I hope you all enjoyed yourselves as much as I did hosting.
Cheers,
Chris
Orders as resolved for Fall
1914.
=============================================
England:
F Baltic Sea Supports A Kiel - Berlin
F Barents Sea Supports F St Petersburg(sc)
A Belgium - Norway
A Burgundy - Munich (*Bounce*)
F English Channel Hold
F Gulf of Lyon Supports A Marseilles - Piedmont
A Holland - Kiel (*Fails*)
A Kiel - Berlin (*Bounce*)
A Marseilles - Piedmont (*Fails*)
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean Hold
F North Africa Supports F Tunis
F North Sea Convoys A Belgium - Norway
A Ruhr Supports A Burgundy - Munich
F St Petersburg(sc) Hold
F Tunis Supports F Western Mediterranean - Tyrrhenian Sea (*Cut*)
F Western Mediterranean - Tyrrhenian Sea (*Fails*)
Turkey:
F Adriatic Sea - Ionian Sea (*Fails*)
A Armenia - STE (*Invalid*)
A Bohemia - Munich (*Bounce*)
A Bulgaria - Rumania
A Galicia - Warsaw
F Ionian Sea - Tunis (*Fails*)
A Livonia Supports A Moscow - St Petersburg
A Moscow - St Petersburg
(*Fails*)
A Munich - Berlin (*Bounce*)
F Naples Supports F Tyrrhenian Sea
A Piedmont Supports A Tuscany (*Cut*)
F Rome Supports F Tyrrhenian Sea
A Silesia Supports A Munich - Berlin
A Tuscany Supports A Piedmont
A Tyrolia Supports A Bohemia - Munich
F Tyrrhenian Sea Supports F Ionian Sea - Tunis (*Cut*)
A Warsaw - Prussia
============================================= |
| (DC 324) A Stab in the Dark *** GAME OVER *** (dc324) Corrino Aug 10, 09:12 am |
Should I mention that I tried to get Mike to play and he passed?
Now there's a man who wears his target with pride. No anonymous gunboat games for him!
From: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com>
To: Michael Sims <mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net>; C Morse <camorse22(at)yahoo.com>; Dirk Knemeyer <dirk(at)knemeyer.com>; Jeffrey Krause <diplomacy(at)jeffreyk.com>; Michael Thompson <psychosis(at)sky.com>; Paul Russell <jehannum_raver(at)yahoo.com>; Scott Hickey <thase+dipcorp(at)dalarin.net>; Steve Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>
Cc: dc324 <dc324(at)diplomaticcorp.com>; Stephen Worthy <stephenworthy(at)rocketmail.com>
Sent: Tue, August 10, 2010 8:32:23 AM
Subject: Re: (DC 324) A Stab in the Dark *** GAME OVER ***
No argument here on that!!
From: Michael Sims <mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com>; C Morse <camorse22(at)yahoo.com>; Dirk Knemeyer <dirk(at)knemeyer.com>; Jeffrey Krause <diplomacy(at)jeffreyk.com>; Michael Thompson <psychosis(at)sky.com>; Paul Russell <jehannum_raver(at)yahoo.com>; Scott Hickey <thase+dipcorp(at)dalarin.net>; Steve Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>
Cc: dc324 <dc324(at)diplomaticcorp.com>; Stephen Worthy <stephenworthy(at)rocketmail.com>
Sent: Tue, August 10, 2010 8:23:40 AM
Subject: RE: (DC 324) A Stab in the Dark *** GAME OVER ***
Hey gotta share the target when you can. I certainly dont mind if someone besides me carries that thing for a while, it's heavy!
From: Packrat [mailto:brn2dip(at)yahoo.com]
Sent: Tue 8/10/2010 7:22 AM
To: Michael Sims; C Morse; Dirk Knemeyer; Jeffrey Krause; Michael Thompson; Paul Russell; Scott Hickey; Steve Lytton
Cc: dc324; Stephen Worthy
Subject: Re: (DC 324) A Stab in the Dark *** GAME OVER ***
NICE! Why don't ya just paint a target on the guys back while you're at it.
That's part of what fueled my slow exodus away from the hobby. Far too
many games wound up being "get Packrat" fests. And, no, it isn't paranoia,
I've had more than one player tell me that they came after me because of
the either the reputation or, in the case of DC, because of the ratings.
Congratulations for sure, and it is certainly IS an incredible record, but
when you point it out, you paint the target.
From: Michael Sims <mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net>
To: C Morse <camorse22(at)yahoo.com>; Dirk Knemeyer <dirk(at)knemeyer.com>; Jeffrey Krause <diplomacy(at)jeffreyk.com>; Michael Thompson <psychosis(at)sky.com>; Paul Russell <jehannum_raver(at)yahoo.com>; Scott Packrat Troemel <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com>; Scott Hickey <thase+dipcorp(at)dalarin.net>; Steve Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>
Cc: dc324 <dc324(at)diplomaticcorp.com>; Stephen Worthy <stephenworthy(at)rocketmail.com>
Sent: Tue, August 10, 2010 8:13:38 AM
Subject: RE: (DC 324) A Stab in the Dark *** GAME OVER ***
Wow a 4th solo for Scott in 8 games played. Incredible record. Congrats!
-mike
From: C Morse [mailto:camorse22(at)yahoo.com]
Sent: Mon 8/9/2010 9:37 PM
To: Chris Morse; Dirk Knemeyer; Jeffrey Krause; Michael Thompson; Paul Russell; Scott Packrat Troemel; Scott Hickey; Steve Lytton
Cc: dc324; Michael Sims; Stephen Worthy
Subject: (DC 324) A Stab in the Dark *** GAME OVER ***
GENTLEMEN, WE HAVE A WINNER!
Congratulations to Scott Hickey, aka Lequinian, for his solo victory as Turkey in A Stab in the Dark, the inaugural Gunboat Stab! game on the DC site.
Bittersweet congratulations are also in order for our second-place finisher, Paul Russell, who played a heck of a game himself. Paul, as England, just missed derailing the Turkish locomotive that in the early-to-mid-game seemed on track to an easy triumph.
Scott used a ton of skill throughout the game and just enough intuition in the final season to thwart England's final gambit. It was a fifty-fifty proposition in the last Fall season. Turkey had four units in defense against England's four units attacking. Would it be three on Munich and one on Berlin, or two for each? Scott guessed the latter and he guessed correctly, managing to bounce the English attacks in both supply centers
and to claim his 18th dot in Munich while Berlin was left open.
Here are the orders that decided it all. (The complete set of orders can be found at the end of this message.)
England:
F Baltic Sea Supports A Kiel - Berlin
A Burgundy - Munich (*Bounce*)
A Kiel - Berlin (*Bounce*)
A Ruhr Supports A Burgundy - Munich
Turkey:
A Bohemia - Munich (*Bounce*)
A Munich - Berlin (*Bounce*)
A Silesia Supports A Munich - Berlin
A Tyrolia Supports A Bohemia - Munich
Tooth and nail to the end, I do believe that we would have had a stalemate if there had been no victory this year. As you can see from the attached maps, Turkey had just filled into Prussia, closing the last small gap in the two players' lines. I'm sure Paul is kicking himself for allowing Turkey to take Munich in the Spring, but hey, he took a calculated risk and it just didn't work. No shame there.
Cast of Characters (aka The Stab! All-Stars)
Austria - Scott "Packrat" Troemel - Eliminated 1903
England - Paul "Jehannum" Russell - Survival (16 SC)
France - Stephen "Deathblade Penguin" Lytton - Eliminated 1911
Germany - Jeffrey Krauss - Eliminated 1906
Italy - Michael "Psychosis" Thompson - Eliminated 1911
Russia - Dirk Knemeyer - Eliminated 1909
Turkey - Scott "Lequinian" Hickey - Solo Victory 1914 (18 SC)
List of Attachments
DC324_F14_Moves.gif ... so you can see how the last turn played out
DC324_F14_Game_Over.gif ... the final position showing Turkey's victory
DC324_F14.dpy ... the Realpolitik file. You can watch the whole game play out in a slideshow!
DC 324 Report.odt ... an open office word processing document that I kept for my own sake. Don't know how many of you
will be able to open it, but if you can, you'll see how I tracked all the game moves -- what was seen, what was hidden, the complete support orders, etc.
GM's EOG Statement
I was first introduced to Stab! a few years back by a gentleman GM named Stephen Worthy (henceforth SW -- Hi Stephen!) from the Cat23 Diplomacy group. I was completely hooked after one turn. I liked gunboat. I really liked the semi-blind aspect, which let me try to be tricky in the dark and which really engaged my deductive powers trying to figure out where everyone's units were. I did rather well at it, too, which no doubt contributed to my enjoyment.
So, here it is a few years later and I decide that not only is it time I gave back and GM a game, but it's also my chance to revive Stab! on a new forum and find out whether I can get a bunch of new players hooked
on it, too. Judging from the quickness with which the game filled up there was clearly strong interest. Not only strong interest, but a very strong group of players. I remember telling Mike Sims that I had a veritable all-star lineup. Even our "new face," Jeff Krauss, was fast proving his worth (just check out his standing in WB10), so I was expecting a great game and I'm very happy to say I wasn't disappointed.
Of course the GM has a uniquely omniscient perspective in a game like Stab! It was great fun to be able to watch each player tackle the problem of how to maneuver about in the dark. Russia and England and France, to name three examples, took advantage of the dark to quickly expand and attack opponents in non-traditional ways. Others were very conservative. Turkey, for instance, was very cautious. He couldn't know this, of course, but he repeatedly spent turns supporting himself in
place against imaginary threats. If he had pushed on more boldly, I think there was a good chance he could have won the game easily 4 or 5 years earlier. Scroll through the Realpolitik file and see if you agree.
I don't want to step on the toes of the players' EOGS so I'm not going to speculate too much more on individual play. In general terms, though, it was signficant, I think, that it was our two witches who thrived best. In a somewhat chaotic world, is it a coincidence that it was the two countries considered highest in defensive strength that dominated in this game?
Think about that for a minute, and then check out these statistics. Combining this result with the outcomes from the four games SW has run, these are our outcomes:
CAT23 926: Russian win (year ??)
CAT23 1004: Turkey, England, France draw (year ??)
CAT23 1232: Turkish win (1912, 18 SC)
CAT23 1233: Turkish win (1907, 20 SC)DC 324: Turkish win (1914, 18 SC)
That's three Turkish solos out of five games. I know, I know. It's not a large sample size, but still, it makes you want to look a little closer.
In 1233, Turkey was aided greatly by his neighbors Russia and Austria. The former opened by sending 3 of his 4 units towards Scandinavia, while the latter opened against Italy and Russia, ignoring Serbia and Greece altogether in 1901. Turkey roared out of the gate and was never checked as he rolled to a quick and decisive victory.
The other two Turkish victories were not that kind of win. Both were more typical examples of blind gunboat games, where play is understandably less efficient than in sighted games. However, it still seems fair to me to wonder whether or not that type of game environment might just offer inherent advantages to some
countries. I'm sure we could have a wonderful debate on that very topic. (I know because I have.) My current feeling, though, is that rather than debate the topic, I'd like to see more data. I'd like to see more games completed AND ... I'd like to see more games played where the results given above are known ahead of time because, as we all know, we do adjust our games to compensate for the strengths and weaknesses of the various countries according to our knowledge of their past performance. My guess is that if I were to host another game of Stab! on DC within the next few months that Turkey would start the game with a giant bullseye on his back. And you know what? That's okay. If we play enough of these games we'll eventually build up a new set of expectations and strategies to deal with the situation that not all countries are created equal in Stab! land. Heck, they're not equal in standard Dip,
so we've no right to complain if Stab! skews the balance in different ways than we're used to. Right?
Players EOG Statements
You can post your EOG statements directly to the game forum, or just email to all the people on this list and copy the dc324 forum as I've done on this message. If you choose to just reply to this message, please do us all the favor of deleting this original message text from your entry.
I know that Germany has already written his EOGS and I hope that more of you will follow suit. I'd love to hear about how you stabbed in the dark and tried to keep from getting stabbed. Comments on the game management (my part) and the game rules are welcome, too. As mentioned some time ago, I intend to expand quite a bit on Stab! entry the DipWiki. I'll need some time to collect all my notes, but when I do I will
send them to all of you for your review and comments.
Farewell
I suppose as Diplomacy games go this one played out pretty quickly. Fourteen years in fifteen weeks is certainly no record, but I have to say it felt like longer. I can put out a typically gunboat adjudication in about 30 minutes. The BEST I ever did in Stab! was an hour, and typically it was 1.5 to 2 hours by the time I'd finished.
Rest assured that it was all a labor of love and I'd do it again. Not right away, but again. Thanks to all the players who did a wonderful job of keeping to -- and ahead of, in most cases -- the deadlines. One NMR in 14 years is pretty darn good, in my book. I hope you all enjoyed yourselves as much as I did hosting.
Cheers,
Chris
Orders as resolved for Fall
1914.
=============================================
England:
F Baltic Sea Supports A Kiel - Berlin
F Barents Sea Supports F St Petersburg(sc)
A Belgium - Norway
A Burgundy - Munich (*Bounce*)
F English Channel Hold
F Gulf of Lyon Supports A Marseilles - Piedmont
A Holland - Kiel (*Fails*)
A Kiel - Berlin (*Bounce*)
A Marseilles - Piedmont (*Fails*)
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean Hold
F North Africa Supports F Tunis
F North Sea Convoys A Belgium - Norway
A Ruhr Supports A Burgundy - Munich
F St Petersburg(sc) Hold
F Tunis Supports F Western Mediterranean - Tyrrhenian Sea (*Cut*)
F Western Mediterranean - Tyrrhenian Sea (*Fails*)
Turkey:
F Adriatic Sea - Ionian Sea (*Fails*)
A Armenia - STE (*Invalid*)
A Bohemia - Munich (*Bounce*)
A Bulgaria - Rumania
A Galicia - Warsaw
F Ionian Sea - Tunis (*Fails*)
A Livonia Supports A Moscow - St Petersburg
A Moscow - St Petersburg
(*Fails*)
A Munich - Berlin (*Bounce*)
F Naples Supports F Tyrrhenian Sea
A Piedmont Supports A Tuscany (*Cut*)
F Rome Supports F Tyrrhenian Sea
A Silesia Supports A Munich - Berlin
A Tuscany Supports A Piedmont
A Tyrolia Supports A Bohemia - Munich
F Tyrrhenian Sea Supports F Ionian Sea - Tunis (*Cut*)
A Warsaw - Prussia
============================================= |
| dc330: Sp39 is approaching! - dknemeyer (Aug 09, 2010, 6:49 pm) |
Hi Folks,
Spring 1939 final deadline is just over 21 hours away! I'm still two
sets of orders light of a full set...
Dirk[Reply] |
| DC 333, Autumn 1902 - alwayshunted (Aug 09, 2010, 6:17 pm) |
Hi gang,
Well, still no word from England, so both of his fleets are disbanded. On the bright side he will get to build a unit if he gets back to me.
I am playing strictly by the rules here folks, and therefore am not going to seek a replacement for England until (if) he doesn't submit spring orders. If I don't get spring orders from him I will put the game on hold PRIOR to spring and seek a replacement, who will be allowed to submit orders for spring 03.
Anyhow, we still have winter to go through, so here it is:
-------------
No retreats submitted so North Sea and Norwegian Sea disbanded.
Status:
Ownership:
England: Belgium, Edinburgh, Liverpool, London.
France: Brest, Marseilles, Paris, Portugal, Spain.
Germany: Berlin, Denmark, Holland, Kiel, Munich.
Italy: Naples, Rome, Trieste, Tunis, Venice, Vienna.
Russia: Budapest, Moscow, Norway, Rumania, Sevastopol, St
Petersburg, Sweden, Warsaw.
Turkey: Ankara, Bulgaria, Constantinople, Greece, Serbia,
Smyrna.
Adjustments:
Austria: Supp 0 Unit 1 Remove 1
England: Supp 4 Unit 3 Build 1
France: Supp 5 Unit 5 Build 0
Germany: Supp 5 Unit 5 Build 0
Italy: Supp 6 Unit 5 Build 1
Russia: Supp 8 Unit 6 Build 2
Turkey: Supp 6 Unit 4 Build 2
DEADLINE: In two days, Wednesday August 11, 2010, 17:00 MDT.
------------------------
I think that covers it. Get your adjustments in, and of course I always accept early orders for spring.
Maps are attached. Enjoy.
Warren
[Reply] |
| DC329 W04 COL FRI FOR S05 - vegas_iwish (Aug 09, 2010, 6:17 pm) |
Can't hold up this more as has been slow. sent e-mails to all those missing earlier today. http://diplomaticcorp.com/game_page.php?game_id=dc329
Britain:
Build A Delhi
China:
Defaults, removing A Hyderabad
Defaults, removing A Tashkent
France:
Build F Tongking
Build F Annam
Turkey:
Build A Angora
Holland:
Build F Sumatra
Build F Java
Russia:
Defaults, removing A Kashgar[Reply] |
| DC329 W04 COL FRI FOR S05 (dc329) Sean2010 Aug 10, 04:26 pm |
My apologize everyone,
My eldest son came to visit through rushed planning while my ex and son are in the States before my fiance and I twins are born.
My apologize. Michael could you please update my NMR number on my profile, so it is correctly reflected to 3 total.
Thanks,
Sean
|
| DC329 W04 COL FRI FOR S05 (dc329) vegas_iwish Aug 11, 09:08 am |
you do not recive an nmr for an adjustment phase so just rock on
--- On Tue, 8/10/10, Sean O'Donnell <sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com> wrote:
From: Sean O'Donnell <sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: DC329 W04 COL FRI FOR S05
To: "MICHAEL BOUTOT vegas_iwish DC GM" <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com>, "Garry Bledsoe GM DC" <kielmarch(at)hotmail.com>, "Nick Powell DrSwordopolis DC" <nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com>, "William Duncan CPT23862 DC" <cpt23862(at)yahoo.ca>, "Aidan Slattery Lane DC" <aislattery(at)aol.com>, "Poul Hurup hurup DC" <hurup(at)pc.dk>, "Justin Card Joral DC" <justin(at)darkenedpath.com>
Cc: dc329(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Date: Tuesday, August 10, 2010, 2:26 PM
My apologize everyone,
My eldest son came to visit through rushed planning while my ex and son are in the States before my fiance and I twins are born.
My apologize. Michael could you please update my NMR number on my profile, so it is correctly reflected to 3 total.
Thanks,
Sean
|
| dc311 Spring '20 Full Results - notasb (Aug 09, 2010, 4:27 pm) |
Austria - Bruce Ray
England - Daniel Dzikowicz
France - Nick Powell
Germany - Dirk Knemeyer
Italy - Jason K
Russia - Paul Russell
Turkey - Hamish Williams
GM Note:
Both End Game Proposals Fail.
Map:
http://home.comcast.net/~dawench/311/31120Spring.gif
Deadline:
Fall '20 is due Thursday August 12th 2 PM CDST (GMT -5) 1900 GMT
Orders and Results:
Austria:
A Bohemia - Galicia (*Fails*)
A Budapest Supports A Serbia - Rumania (*Fails*)
F Constantinople - Black Sea (*Bounce*)
F Greece - Ionian Sea (*Fails*)
F Naples - Apulia (*Fails*)
A Piedmont - Marseilles (*Fails*)
A Rome Supports F Naples - Apulia
A Rumania - Ukraine (*Bounce*)
A Serbia - Rumania (*Bounce*)
F Smyrna Hold
A Tyrolia - Munich (*Fails*)
A Vienna Supports A Bohemia - Galicia
England:
F Apulia - Naples (*Fails*)
F Ionian Sea Supports F Apulia - Naples (*Cut*)
F Norway Hold
F Portugal - Mid-Atlantic Ocean
F Spain(sc) - Western Mediterranean
F Tyrrhenian Sea Supports F Apulia - Naples
A Yorkshire Hold
Germany:
A Armenia - Ankara (*Fails*)
F Belgium - North Sea (*Bounce*)
A Burgundy Supports A Munich
A Galicia - Bohemia (*Fails*)
F Helgoland Bight - North Sea (*Bounce*)
A Marseilles - Piedmont (*Fails*)
A Munich Supports A Galicia - Bohemia (*Cut*)
A Sevastopol - Rumania (*Bounce*)
A Silesia Supports A Galicia - Bohemia
F Skagerrak - North Sea (*Bounce*)
F Sweden - Norway (*Fails*)
A Warsaw - Ukraine (*Bounce*)
Turkey:
F Ankara - Black Sea (*Bounce*)
------------
"We are not retreating-we are advancing in another direction."
- General Douglas MacArthur[Reply] |
| DC 335 Deadline Warning - fencertim (Aug 09, 2010, 4:05 pm) |
Spring 1902 deadline is less than 24 hours
from now….looks like I am missing a few sets of orders.
Thanks,
Tim[Reply] |
| DC 335 Deadline Warning (dc335) fencertim Aug 10, 07:17 am |
About 8 hours to go and I still need 2
more sets of orders. I have acknowledged what I have received.
tim
From: Timothy Crosby
[mailto:tim_crosby(at)hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 5:06
PM
To: 'Timothy Crosby';
jyjusy(at)hotmail.com; michael.alan.walters(at)gmail.com;
Simon.Langley-Evans(at)nottingham.ac.uk; matthew.kremer(at)yale.edu;
yannanth(at)gmail.com; 'Darryl Good'; wealllovekatamari(at)yahoo.com;
dc335(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Subject: DC 335 Deadline Warning
Spring 1902 deadline is less than 24 hours
from now….looks like I am missing a few sets of orders.
Thanks,
Tim |
| DC 335 Deadline Warning (dc335) fencertim Sep 01, 05:37 pm |
Spring 1903 orders are due in less than 24 hours. I am in possession
of 3 sets of orders.
Tim |
| dc311 Spring '20 - notasb (Aug 09, 2010, 2:14 pm) |
I have to leave for a couple hours, I'll send the map when I return. Here's the adjudication:
Austria:
A Bohemia - Galicia (*Fails*)
A Budapest Supports A Serbia - Rumania (*Fails*)
F Constantinople - Black Sea (*Bounce*)
F Greece - Ionian Sea (*Fails*)
F Naples - Apulia (*Fails*)
A Piedmont - Marseilles (*Fails*)
A Rome Supports F Naples - Apulia
A Rumania - Ukraine (*Bounce*)
A Serbia - Rumania (*Bounce*)
F Smyrna Hold
A Tyrolia - Munich (*Fails*)
A Vienna Supports A Bohemia - Galicia
England:
F Apulia - Naples (*Fails*)
F Ionian Sea Supports F Apulia - Naples (*Cut*)
F Norway Hold
F Portugal - Mid-Atlantic Ocean
F Spain(sc) - Western Mediterranean
F Tyrrhenian Sea Supports F Apulia - Naples
A Yorkshire Hold
Germany:
A Armenia - Ankara (*Fails*)
F Belgium - North Sea (*Bounce*)
A Burgundy Supports A Munich
A Galicia - Bohemia (*Fails*)
F Helgoland Bight - North Sea (*Bounce*)
A Marseilles - Piedmont (*Fails*)
A Munich Supports A Galicia - Bohemia (*Cut*)
A Sevastopol - Rumania (*Bounce*)
A Silesia Supports A Galicia - Bohemia
F Skagerrak - North Sea (*Bounce*)
F Sweden - Norway (*Fails*)
A Warsaw - Ukraine (*Bounce*)
Turkey:
F Ankara - Black Sea (*Bounce*)
------------
"We are not retreating-we are advancing in another direction."
- General Douglas MacArthur[Reply] |
| DC327 - 24hr reminder Fall 05 deadline - bielf11 (Aug 09, 2010, 2:06 pm) |
Those copied in: less than 24 hrs to turn your orders in.
Frank[Reply] |
| DC310 Warning - Samnuva (Aug 08, 2010, 4:41 pm) |
| This is the 24 Hour warning for the game. I have orders, but if you want to update them, you've got until tomorrow at 9:00 eastern. [Reply] |
| Autumn 1903 Adjudication - cfisher6 (Aug 08, 2010, 10:35 am) |
Italy:
F Ionian Sea - Apulia
Russia:
A Norway, no move received (*Disbanded*)
All:
Sorry again for the inconvenience caused by my travel plans. This past weekend I visited the port city of Qingdao where they brew the Tsingtao beer and the site of a pre-WWI German garrison. It's a large city and the hotel I stayed at advertised internet access on their site. Upon arrival however I learned that both the advertised amenities AND the pictures on their site were not correct. It was with some difficulty I had my brother (himself a wargame fanatic and current expat in China) communicate with you via email. Sorry again for the problems and I hope for it not to happen in the future.
On other news we have our first NMR--Russia failed to submit a retreat order. Since the game was delayed already for so long I could not push it back further to request Russia's moves. I hope that this is just a one-time event.
I already have most Winter 1903 moves in so I'd like to have the deadline Monday 9th 23:59 GMT for Winter builds/disbands. Some of you might like to change your orders given the retreats so please take them into account. Thanks for your patience and sorry once more!
Ownership:
Austria: Budapest, Rumania, Trieste, Vienna.
England: Edinburgh, Norway.
France: Brest, Liverpool, London, Marseilles, Paris, Portugal, Spain.
Germany: Belgium, Berlin, Denmark, Holland, Kiel, Munich.
Italy: Naples, Rome, Tunis, Venice.
Russia: Moscow, Sevastopol, St Petersburg, Sweden, Warsaw.
Turkey: Ankara, Bulgaria, Constantinople, Greece, Serbia, Smyrna.
Adjustments:
Austria: Supp 4 Unit 4 Build 0
England: Supp 2 Unit 3 Remove 1
France: Supp 7 Unit 6 Build 1
Germany: Supp 6 Unit 5 Build 1
Italy: Supp 4 Unit 4 Build 0
Russia: Supp 5 Unit 4 Build 1
Turkey: Supp 6 Unit 6 Build 0
[Reply] |
| Knightings! - kevinokelly (Aug 08, 2010, 7:38 am) |
Oh yah, there are drinks. Sadly for you though, the intern knight must buy the first round.
Congrats Chris, and welcome aboard.-kevin
On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 10:17 AM, C Morse <camorse22(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
Thanks to you, MIchael, and humble greetings to all the senior knights here assembled.
I am most honored to be inducted into such an august company, and I hereby pledge to uphold the lofty ideals of the the corps to the utmost of my strength and ability.
So... Are there drinks? I thought there would be drinks.
Cheers,
Chris
From: Michael Sims <mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net>
To: Steve Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>; Michael Sims <mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net>; felixkamchung(at)mac.com; m_don_j(at)hotmail.com; matthew.kremer(at)yale.edu; kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com; dawench(at)hotmail.com; Garry Bledsoe <kielmarch(at)hotmail.com>; Jorge Saralegui <jmsaralegui(at)gmail.com>; psychosis(at)sky.com; Jason Koelewyn <githraine(at)yahoo.com>; sgttodd(at)mainecav.org; alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com; mrh(at)panix.com; rk(at)giorsoine.dk; ndeily(at)yahoo.com; aramis604(at)yahoo.com; bielschowsky.f(at)googlemail.com; smegdwarf(at)yahoo.com; fredrik(at)familjenblom.se; alley_cat_1990(at)hotmail.com; dipknight(at)gmail.com; Benjamin Hester <screwtape777(at)gmail.com>; camorse22(at)yahoo.com; coebq(at)yahoo.com
Cc: forum <community(at)diplomaticcorp.com>
Sent: Mon, August 2, 2010 10:28:31 AM
Subject: Knightings!
Welcome Chris and Bruce to the ranks of the veteran players of diplomaticcorp!
Chris joins us as our new intern -- the Initiate Knight, while long-time member Bruce surges ahead to Knight Tactician, skipping to the highest of Knight levels...
Other advancements:
Warren and Jason trade in their Parchment for the Raven, beginning the long climb thru the Orders.
Alan and Fredrik gain some stature as Knight Captains
Ben and Darryl give up their intern status to become Knight Errants. (Can Chris possibly fill the role of these two by himself?)
[Reply] |
| DC 311 - News Update!!!! - Githraine (Aug 08, 2010, 7:27 am) |
I was Italy.
I know it has been a long time since I was eliminated but really!!!
From: Dirk Knemeyer <dirk(at)knemeyer.com>
To: Jason K <githraine(at)yahoo.com>
Cc: catsfather(at)gmail.com; ddz999cat23(at)yahoo.com; raybrucea(at)aol.com; blitz(at)diplomaticcorp.com; dawench2(at)yahoo.com; jehannum_raver(at)yahoo.com; nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com
Sent: Sat, August 7, 2010 3:06:33 PM
Subject: Re: DC 311 - News Update!!!!
Hey Jason,
Why are you posting on the dc311 list? Did you play in the Winterblitz? Which second round game were you in?! 
Dirk
On Aug 6, 2010, at 11:17 AM, Jason K wrote:
Stop the Presses!
With the last season's close, DC 311 has moved into a tie for 10th place of the longest
running DC games (in Game Time)
As the only game in the top 10 that is still active, DC 311 now has an opportunity to shoot for the records!
Every year you fools prolong this clust.. err... game you will move up 2 spots in the ranking until in 1923 when you will be tied for 3rd place.
A first place finish would mean keeping on until 1936. If the game is still going then I will personally visit each of you to deliver your prize, which looks surprisingly like a baseball bat.
Good Luck![Reply] |
| dc330: Wi38 Maps - dknemeyer (Aug 07, 2010, 2:08 pm) |
Reports across Europe express confusion as there are apparently no
current maps that make clear the geo-political situation in our
current affair. Happily the Central Office has found some and attached
them.
The very good news is I will be stable in one place the next few weeks
and be back on a more normal schedule including historical context
with adjudications.
Spring 1938 deadline is a mere 74 hours away!
Dirk[Reply] |
| DC 311 - News Update!!!! - dknemeyer (Aug 07, 2010, 2:06 pm) |
Hey Jason,
Why are you posting on the dc311 list? Did you play in the Winterblitz? Which second round game were you in?!
Dirk
On Aug 6, 2010, at 11:17 AM, Jason K wrote:
Stop the Presses!
With the last season's close, DC 311 has moved into a tie for 10th place of the longest running DC games (in Game Time)
As the only game in the top 10 that is still active, DC 311 now has an opportunity to shoot for the records!
Every year you fools prolong this clust.. err... game you will move up 2 spots in the ranking until in 1923 when you will be tied for 3rd place.
A first place finish would mean keeping on until 1936. If the game is still going then I will personally visit each of you to deliver your prize, which looks surprisingly like a baseball bat.
Good Luck![Reply] |
| All - briankingfox (Aug 07, 2010, 3:26 am) |
Chris
Enjoy your trip in China
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 09:12:23 +0800
Subject: All
From: fisher.chrisw(at)gmail.com
To: briankingfox(at)hotmail.com; addisonstumpf(at)gmx.com; coebq(at)yahoo.com; jason4747(at)hotmail.com; Maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk; elnerdo(at)gmail.com; dc332(at)diplomaticcorp.com; dirk(at)knemeyer.com
Sorry for the inconvenience, but I'm travelling in China and the hotel I'll be at for the next couple days does not have the internet access I was expecting. I'll be back Sunday morning and can process the retreat phase then. Sorry again for the inconvenience.
Chris[Reply] |
