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Hey guys,

Please welcome William Duncan (cpt23862(at)yahoo.ca) as our new Russia!
To give William time to get to know you all I will be setting a new
deadline for Winter 2013 adjustments: this Friday, October 23, at 9 pm
eastern. I will NOT be adjudicating early unless everyone marks their
adjustments as final; for those of you who have already sent orders I
will use them if I do not hear from you again, but I will not consider
them final unless you tell me they are. Spring 2014 will follow next
Wednesday, October 28, at 9 pm eastern.

Matt

Matt Kremer wrote:
[quote:e9dbc0577f]All,

Andrew (Russia) has said that he no longer feels he has enough time
to devote adequate attention to the game, and thus has asked for a
replacement. Therefore the game will be paused while a replacement
is sought; I don't expect it to take too long since the DC Light
Brigade is pretty good at filling replacement spots quickly.

Matt

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All,

Andrew (Russia) has said that he no longer feels he has enough time to
devote adequate attention to the game, and thus has asked for a
replacement. Therefore the game will be paused while a replacement is
sought; I don't expect it to take too long since the DC Light Brigade
is pretty good at filling replacement spots quickly.

Matt

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Being one of the few remaining players that started the game, I feel it appropriate to get into the details a little deeper than we have heard from the replacement players. Wolf, if you have the email addresses of the players who came and went though out the game, feel free to forward this to them. Maybe some of them will find it of interest.

I have been playing Diplomacy by email for several years now. Originally on CAT23, but I think that site is just about gone. I mention this, because my record on DiplomaticCorp does not give you a fair picture of my experience. I have played every country at least once and soloed with both Germany and Turkey. My last attempt with Austria failed miserably and I was eliminated by Italy, Russia and Turkey by the end of 1902 (yes, all three. Not too sure how I offended them all . . . but somehow I did). So, I watched closely during the games that followed to see how other “Austria’sâ€Â� played things. In doing so, I realized that if Italy and/or Austria worked with Turkey, the Sultan invariably stabbed and almost always eliminated both of them. This was my immediate concern at the beginning of the game.

So I set out to get an alliance with Italy. Knowing that to take Turkey with Italian support, Italy would want Greece (that was what I wanted when I played Italy). So, I promised to turn Greece over to Italy, provided that he did not occupy Greece with an Army. Which Italy seemingly was more than happy to agree to . . . and off we went into 1902 . . . when Italy put an Army into Armenia! Our alliance almost failed right there.

After confronting Italy with his broken agreement, Italy professed that he had forgotten that he had agreed to such. Exactly how having an Italian Army in Armenia could do anything except attack me could not be explained to my satisfaction. However, at this point, I had already attacked Turkey. To back out of the alliance with Italy would mean a two front war for me. Therefore, the only real option was to get Italy back with me, against Turkey. So, we agreed that Italy would remove the army in Armenia (Greece, shortly thereafter) at his earliest opportunity . . . a little vague, I know . . . but I needed Italy at this point. However, I made sure that Italy knew he would have to take Greece by force. This did two things for me; made Italy choose between Greece and Trieste and allow me to retreat from Greece to the Sea zone most advantageous for me after seeing what moves the Sultan used and the choice Italy made. I am grateful that Italy chose to stay with me and occupied Greece.

This moves us into 1903, when I put egg on my face and inadvertently used the abbreviation ‘ven’ for Vienna. I intended to show good faith by moving my army from Trieste to Vienna . . . not Venice. Please, before you say that was a stupid mistake . . . sound it out for yourself. The first syllable for both Vienna and Venice is very similar. I eventually went to spelling everything out right instead of using abbreviations. Of course, this incident almost put an end to the Austrian/Italian alliance at this point.

In the end, however, the action did seem to be fateful as Italy took the opportunity to retreat from attacking Turkey to attack France instead. I am sure that had Italy not turned at that key point in the game, France would have been able to capitalize on his gains in England and begin his attack on Italy in full force. As it was, Italy was able to catch France while he was still totally focused on England.

It was also at this point that I turned and started to attack Germany. This might have seemed to be ill fated . . . start a two front war . . . intentionally? I did it for two reasons; first, France and Germany were working well together. It was obvious that Germany and France would eliminate England and Russia before we were able to eliminate Turkey. Therefore, Austria and Italy would likely have Germany and France at our backdoors before we were ready. Second, I had Turkey bottled up in his home centers. I could not advance against Turkey without Italian help . . . but then again, Turkey could not break out either. And, I could maintain this stalemate with a minimal amount of units. So, it seemed prudent to keep Turkey boxed in and deal with the bigger threat of France and Germany.

I played cat and mouse with Germany over the next several seasons . . . sometimes making gains . . . sometimes being set back . . . either way really served my purpose, because while Germany was completely tied up with dealing with me, he was not making gains against Russia. My attack also served another purpose that I had not realized until the battle was joined. In order to hold off my attacks . . . Germany had to keep units in his home supply centers. Therefore, even if Germany made gains elsewhere, he had no open supply centers to build in. Turkey’s NMR came at the same time that Russia decided to give me some assistance in exchange for a supply center or two in return. Which was probably a mistake since once Turkey was gone it only made sense for me to attack Russia. A smarter play would have been to give Turkey some assistance against me . . . but, Turkey had already alienated Russia by taking Russian supply centers.

The next test of the Austrian/Italian alliance came in 1907. Italy and Austria both had made great gains against France and Turkey respectively. And, the newest Russian Tsar was proving to be more . . . capable, than the two previous ones. It was obvious I was not going to make any more gains until Italy deemed it polite to give me some assistance against Germany . . . whom I had been holding at bay while patiently waiting for Italy to finish off France. It was at this point that Italy decided we needed to talk about how to split the remaining resources so that neither Italy nor Austria was going to be able to obtain the Solo Victory.

REALLY?!? . . . with us each holding only 10 supplies . . . we talk about the end game? I had been very patient in my cat and mouse game with Germany, knowing that I would be getting nowhere until Italy was able to give me some assistance. And, now we have to talk about the end game? The terms that he gave left him ample opportunity for the solo and me on the wrong side of the Stalemate line. To tell the truth . . . I agreed to them so that Italy would be willing to help me against Germany. But, this was the first point that I began to suspect that Italy wanted the solo.

The next couple of game years went by with Austria and Italy moving well against our respective adversaries. It was the spring of 1910, when I decided to be certain of how things were going to end. I put out a request for an Austrian/Italian Draw Proposal. My thinking was this; the game is at a point where England and Russia should support any draw just so that they can claim survival points instead of being eliminated. Germany was between Austria and Italy, and would obviously be pummeled until the end . . . therefore, he should also support the draw in order to claim survival points instead of being eliminated. The only people who had any interest in the game continuing were Austria and Italy. I voted for the Draw, hoping it would end there. But, on the odd chance that Italy voted against the draw in the interest of going for the solo, I also occupied Greece and attacked Venice. Come to find out . . . Italy had forgotten to vote on the proposal all together.

Not much to tell after that . . . I immediately tried to get England and Russia to side with me. Unfortunately . . . neither one of them trusted me . . . despite my doing everything they requested, from the Fall of 1910 forward. I also recognized that I needed a new fleet if I had any hope of making gains against Italy. Unfortunately, Italy saw that also and supported one side of my self-standoff into Trieste so that I couldn’t build the fleet (congrats again on that Tim). Like Tim said . . . if I was really interested in getting the solo, I probably would not have attacked that season. But, I truly believed that the game would be over with the Austria/Italian Draw Proposal in the Spring of 1910. I honestly didn’t take much time to consider what would happen if the game continued.

Thanks Wolf for taking on the burden of GM’ing, great job. I hope I helped alleviated some of the boredom by including you with the ‘bcc:’s of my emails. Congratulations again to Tim for the win; though I must say that I would have respected it a lot more if Germany hadn’t voluntarily given up his centers in favor of the Italian Solo. I look forward to playing with all of you in future games . . . hopefully as allies.

Best Regards,
Darryl (Austria)

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Being one of the few remaining players that started the game, I feel it appropriate to get into the details a little deeper than we have heard from the replacement players.  Wolf, if you have the email addresses of the players who came and went though out the game, feel free to forward this to them.  Maybe some of them will find it of interest.
 
I have been playing Diplomacy by email for several years now.  Originally on CAT23, but I think that site is just about gone.  I mention this, because my record on DiplomaticCorp does not give you a fair picture of my experience.  I have played every country at least once and soloed with both Germany and Turkey.  My last attempt with Austria failed miserably and I was eliminated by Italy, Russia and Turkey by the end of 1902 (yes, all three.  Not too sure how I offended them all . . . but somehow I did).  So, I watched closely during the games that followed to see how other “Austria’s” played things.  In doing so, I realized that if Italy and/or Austria worked with Turkey, the Sultan invariably stabbed and almost always eliminated both of them.  This was my immediate concern at the beginning of the game.
 
So I set out to get an alliance with Italy.  Knowing that to take Turkey with Italian support, Italy would want Greece (that was what I wanted when I played Italy).  So, I promised to turn Greece over to Italy, provided that he did not occupy Greece with an Army.  Which Italy seemingly was more than happy to agree to . . . and off we went into 1902 . . . when Italy put an Army into Armenia!  Our alliance almost failed right there.
 
After confronting Italy with his broken agreement, Italy professed that he had forgotten that he had agreed to such.  Exactly how having an Italian Army in Armenia could do anything except attack me could not be explained to my satisfaction.  However, at this point, I had already attacked Turkey.  To back out of the alliance with Italy would mean a two front war for me.  Therefore, the only real option was to get Italy back with me, against Turkey.  So, we agreed that Italy would remove the army in Armenia (Greece, shortly thereafter) at his earliest opportunity . . . a little vague, I know . . . but I needed Italy at this point.  However, I made sure that Italy knew he would have to take Greece by force.  This did two things for me; made Italy choose between Greece and Trieste and allow me to retreat from Greece to the Sea zone most advantageous for me after seeing what moves the Sultan used and the choice Italy made.  I am grateful that Italy chose to stay with me and occupied Greece.
 
This moves us into 1903, when I put egg on my face and inadvertently used the abbreviation ‘ven’ for Vienna.  I intended to show good faith by moving my army from Trieste to Vienna . . . not Venice.  Please, before you say that was a stupid mistake . . . sound it out for yourself.  The first syllable for both Vienna and Venice is very similar. I eventually went to spelling everything out right instead of using abbreviations.  Of course, this incident almost put an end to the Austrian/Italian alliance at this point.
 
In the end, however, the action did seem to be fateful as Italy took the opportunity to retreat from attacking Turkey to attack France instead.  I am sure that had Italy not turned at that key point in the game, France would have been able to capitalize on his gains in England and begin his attack on Italy in full force.  As it was, Italy was able to catch France while he was still totally focused on England.
 
It was also at this point that I turned and started to attack Germany.  This might have seemed to be ill fated . . . start a two front war . . . intentionally?  I did it for two reasons; first, France and Germany were working well together.  It was obvious that Germany and France would eliminate England and Russia before we were able to eliminate Turkey.  Therefore, Austria and Italy would likely have Germany and France at our backdoors before we were ready.  Second, I had Turkey bottled up in his home centers.  I could not advance against Turkey without Italian help . . . but then again, Turkey could not break out either.  And, I could maintain this stalemate with a minimal amount of units.  So, it seemed prudent to keep Turkey boxed in and deal with the bigger threat of France and Germany.
 
I played cat and mouse with Germany over the next several seasons . . . sometimes making gains . . . sometimes being set back . . . either way really served my purpose, because while Germany was completely tied up with dealing with me, he was not making gains against Russia.  My attack also served another purpose that I had not realized until the battle was joined.  In order to hold off my attacks . . . Germany had to keep units in his home supply centers.  Therefore, even if Germany made gains elsewhere, he had no open supply centers to build in. Turkey’s NMR came at the same time that Russia decided to give me some assistance in exchange for a supply center or two in return.  Which was probably a mistake since once Turkey was gone it only made sense for me to attack Russia.  A smarter play would have been to give Turkey some assistance against me . . . but, Turkey had already alienated Russia by taking Russian supply centers.
 
The next test of the Austrian/Italian alliance came in 1907.  Italy and Austria both had made great gains against France and Turkey respectively.  And, the newest Russian Tsar was proving to be more . . . capable, than the two previous ones.  It was obvious I was not going to make any more gains until Italy deemed it polite to give me some assistance against Germany . . . whom I had been holding at bay while patiently waiting for Italy to finish off France.  It was at this point that Italy decided we needed to talk about how to split the remaining resources so that neither Italy nor Austria was going to be able to obtain the Solo Victory.
 
REALLY?!? . . . with us each holding only 10 supplies . . . we talk about the end game?  I had been very patient in my cat and mouse game with Germany, knowing that I would be getting nowhere until Italy was able to give me some assistance.  And, now we have to talk about the end game?  The terms that he gave left him ample opportunity for the solo and me on the wrong side of the Stalemate line.    To tell the truth . . . I agreed to them so that Italy would be willing to help me against Germany.  But, this was the first point that I began to suspect that Italy wanted the solo.
 
The next couple of game years went by with Austria and Italy moving well against our respective adversaries.  It was the spring of 1910, when I decided to be certain of how things were going to end.  I put out a request for an Austrian/Italian Draw Proposal.  My thinking was this; the game is at a point where England and Russia should support any draw just so that they can claim survival points instead of being eliminated.  Germany was between Austria and Italy, and would obviously be pummeled until the end . . . therefore, he should also support the draw in order to claim survival points instead of being eliminated.  The only people who had any interest in the game continuing were Austria and Italy.  I voted for the Draw, hoping it would end there.  But, on the odd chance that Italy voted against the draw in the interest of going for the solo, I also occupied Greece and attacked Venice.  Come to find out . . . Italy had forgotten to vote on the proposal all together.
 
Not much to tell after that . . . I immediately tried to get England and Russia to side with me.  Unfortunately . . . neither one of them trusted me . . . despite my doing everything they requested, from the Fall of 1910 forward.  I also recognized that I needed a new fleet if I had any hope of making gains against Italy.  Unfortunately, Italy saw that also and supported one side of my self-standoff into Trieste so that I couldn’t build the fleet (congrats again on that Tim).  Like Tim said . . . if I was really interested in getting the solo, I probably would not have attacked that season.  But, I truly believed that the game would be over with the Austria/Italian Draw Proposal in the Spring of 1910. I honestly didn’t take much time to consider what would happen if the game continued.
 
Thanks Wolf for taking on the burden of GM’ing, great job.  I hope I helped alleviated some of the boredom by including you with the ‘bcc:’s of my emails.  Congratulations again to Tim for the win; though I must say that I would have respected it a lot more if Germany hadn’t voluntarily given up his centers in favor of the Italian Solo.  I look forward to playing with all of you in future games . . . hopefully as allies.
 
Best Regards,
        Darryl (Austria)

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First hats off to the GM (whoever said gming was a thankless job!) and as white wolf mentioned earlier this is my first pbem win so dc239 will always be a special game for me. I guess the main factor of my succsess was my alliance with Austria that we both worked at very hard to get going and maintain. It would have been just as satisfying to pull off a it/aus draw but in the end Im glad austria stabbed me. And I just gotta know austria was that move into ven early in the game a misorder or did you plan that? That was pretty much the low point of italy; foreign troops in ven, shut out of turkey and a unfriendly france. Luckily, France wasen't all that active and I managed to roll over him. Unfortunatly that was a big part of the game inactivity and replaced players that allowed austria and me to do so well. I diddint even talk to a russian once! Thanks for all you replacement players who took over hard positions and kept this game running smoothly. As to my final victory push I couldnt have done it without germany I wont speculate why but will leave it to the Kaiser to explain I will just point out that germany IS around to take part in the ending and I am much happier that it is him and not the previous Kaiser. Somewhere in the midgame when austria just started to attack germany I decided to leak austrias turn to the kaiser under the condition he tells no one. So what does he do? Forwards my email to russia! At that point I cancelled my plans to stab austria and swore to myself to destroy germany....I only have one word of advice and its to austria. Your stab and grab happened a few turns too soon. If you had just waited alittle it could have been you with the solo.
Thanks All!
Tim Fuhrmeister.



-----Original Message-----
From: The White Wolf <cloudhurler77(at)yahoo.com ([email]cloudhurler77(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 6:44 PM
To: forgodandglory(at)yahoo.com ([email]forgodandglory(at)yahoo.com[/email]); dc239(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc239(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email]); timfuhrmeister(at)hotmail.com ([email]timfuhrmeister(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dipknight(at)gmail.com ([email]dipknight(at)gmail.com[/email]); cloudhurler77(at)yahoo.com ([email]cloudhurler77(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Untitled36(at)yahoo.com ([email]Untitled36(at)yahoo.com[/email]); strebenator(at)gmail.com ([email]strebenator(at)gmail.com[/email]); damienthryn(at)gmail.com ([email]damienthryn(at)gmail.com[/email]); brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Subject: DC-239 Fall 1912 Adjudication

Guys,
  Pretty impressive turn for Italy. Despite a last minute change which included a misorder, Tim finally managed to capture Munich. Plus, with the timely stab of his ally and the capture of England's last center, we have a winner. Congratulations to Tim for his first PBeM solo (that's right, ever.)
  I've taken the liberty of forcing all retreats, regardless of the number of available options, in order to get us to the winter and an official finale. If anyone's butthurt about this command decision, feel free to complain about it in your EoG (that means I hope to see some!)
  Thanks all for a great game, especially Packrat, Andrew and John, who are all replacements. And yes, though Scott came in after less than a year, he still counts.
  As stated in a roundabout fashion above, I'd love to see EoGs. Feel free to "Reply All" to this email when composing.

Players:

Austria:    Darryl Good           dipknight(at)gmail.com ([email]dipknight(at)gmail.com[/email])
England:   Packrat                 brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])
France:    Civil Disorder
Germany: Andrew Tanner      damienthryn(at)gmail.com ([email]damienthryn(at)gmail.com[/email])
Italy:        Tim Fuhrmeister     timfuhrmeister(at)yahoo.com ([email]timfuhrmeister(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Russia:    John R                  untitled36(at)yahoo.com ([email]untitled36(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Turkey:    Civil Disorder


Orders:

Austria:
A Berlin Supports A Warsaw - Prussia
A Bohemia Supports A Munich (*Cut*)
A Bulgaria - Constantinople (*Bounce*)
F Eastern Mediterranean - Ionian Sea (*Dislodged*)
A Galicia - Warsaw (*Bounce*)
A Greece Hold
A Munich Supports A Berlin (*Disbanded*)
A Serbia Supports A Greece
A Silesia Supports A Berlin
A Smyrna - Constantinople (*Bounce*)
F Trieste Hold
A Vienna Supports F Trieste
A Warsaw - Prussia

England:
F Norway - St Petersburg(nc) (*Dislodged*)

Germany:
F Baltic Sea - Sweden
A Livonia - Warsaw (*Bounce*)
F Prussia - Berlin (*Dislodged*)

Italy:
F Adriatic Sea - Albania
F Aegean Sea Supports F Ionian Sea - Eastern Mediterranean
A Apulia - Venice
A Belgium - Holland
A Burgundy Supports A Kiel - Ruhr (*Void*)
F Helgoland Bight - Denmark
F Ionian Sea - Eastern Mediterranean
A Kiel - Munich
F North Sea Supports F Norwegian Sea - Norway
F Norwegian Sea - Norway
A Ruhr Supports A Kiel - Munich
F Tunis - Ionian Sea
A Tyrolia - Bohemia (*Fails*)
A Venice - Piedmont

Russia:
A Moscow - St Petersburg (*Bounce*)


Retreats:

Austrian F Eastern Mediterranean can retreat to Syria or OTB.
Austrian A Munich has no retreats, disbanded.
English F Norway can retreat to Skagerrak,Barents Sea or OTB.
German F Prussia can retreat to Baltic Sea or OTB.


Retreat Orders:

Austria:
F Eastern Mediterranean - Syria

England:
F Norway - Barents Sea

Germany:
F Prussia - Baltic Sea


Final Unit Positions: (SCs/Units)

Austria: (13/12)
Armies - Ber, Boh, Bul, Gal, Gre, Pru, Ser, Sil, Smy, Vie
Fleets - Syr, Tri

England: (0/1) ELIMINATED
Fleets - Bar

France: ELIMINATED 1909

Germany: (1/3)
Armies - Lvn
Fleets - Bal, Swe

Italy: (18/14)
Armies - Bur, Hol, Mun, Pie, Ruh, Trl, Ven
Fleets - Aeg, Alb, Den, Eas, Ion, Nth, Nwy

Russia: (2/1)
Armies - Mos

Turkey: ELIMINATED 1906


Final Map and RP file are attached for your convenience, enjoy!

Thanks for a great game, everyone,
The White Wolf

I'm a Firefly fan and proud! Read my fiction:
 http://www.fanfiction.net/u/1369632/

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A 3-way draw between Germany, Russia, and Turkey has been proposed.
Your votes on this proposal are due with your Fall 1907 orders on
Monday at 9 pm eastern. However, I have been told that you all have
already been discussing this proposal amongst yourselves, so I will
announce the results of the vote as soon as I have votes from everyone.

Matt

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