243 builds and map Spring Sat. 1500 GMT - agwopa (Jun 17, 2009, 11:26 am) |
It seems I missed an order for the build so I was delayed while I reconfirmed what the build was so I apologize and here we go. I already have some orders for spring so I am thinking we can speed this up by saying Saturday 1500 GMT for spring but... If you need more than that let me know by Friday and I will send a delay notice instead of a 24 hour warning.
England:
Remove F Skagerrak
Germany:
Build A Munich
Russia:
Build A St Petersburg
Have a great 2 days and I will send a 24 hour/delay notice on Friday
Thanks
AGWOPA[Reply] |
Dc241 - 24 hour warning FAT - deathblade_penguin (Jun 17, 2009, 6:13 am) |
Dc241 Spring 1906 is due Thursday 18th at 7pm, Australian DST
I am missing moves from France, Austria and Turkey.
Stephen Lytton
Mein Luftkissenfahrzeug ist von den Aalen voll.
Find your next place with Ninemsn property Looking for a place to rent, share or buy this winter?[Reply] |
DC 225: Autumn 1907 Adjudication & Maps - AlanRFarrington (Jun 17, 2009, 5:20 am) |
.ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P {padding:0px;} .ExternalClass body.EC_hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:VerdanaHope nobody minds me getting this out early. Need builds from England & Turkey
Orders:
Austria:
A Vienna - Galicia
Italy:
F Spain(sc) - Gulf of Lyon
Austria: Supp 5 Unit 5 Build 0
England: Supp 11 Unit 10 Build 1
Germany: Supp 7 Unit 7 Build 0
Italy: Supp 6 Unit 6 Build 0
Turkey: Supp 5 Unit 3 Build 2
Deadline:
Friday June 19th at Midnight GMT (7:00pm EST)
Thanks guys,
Alan Farrington
Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that’s right for you.[Reply] |
DC 225: Autumn 1907 Adjudication - AlanRFarrington (Jun 17, 2009, 5:07 am) |
Hope nobody minds me getting this out early. Need builds from England & Turkey
Orders:
Austria:
A Vienna - Galicia
Italy:
F Spain(sc) - Gulf of Lyon
Austria: Supp 5 Unit 5 Build 0
England: Supp 11 Unit 10 Build 1
Germany: Supp 7 Unit 7 Build 0
Italy: Supp 6 Unit 6 Build 0
Turkey: Supp 5 Unit 3 Build 2
Deadline:
Friday June 19th at Midnight GMT (7:00pm EST)
Thanks guys,
Alan Farrington
Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that’s right for you.[Reply] |
DC 254, NEW Spring 1903 deadline - alwayshunted (Jun 17, 2009, 12:51 am) |
.hmmessage P {margin:0px;padding:0px;} body.hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} Hey everyone,
Judging by the number of orders I have received so far, I guess you guys were actually expecting a winter MAP.... heh, heh.... which COMPLETELY slipped my mind until earlier today.
ANYHOW, without going into a whole bunch of excuses about my crazy life, I am going to just extend the deadline for a couple of days, and send you an updated map. So here it is.....
The new deadline is:
Thursday, June 18, 22:00 MST
Like I mentioned, I have very few orders. Get them in folks..... just under two days.
Warren[Reply] |
DC212 - Fall 1912 - Call And Answer - former.trout (Jun 17, 2009, 12:38 am) |
Heya folks,
The big get bigger, and the small get smaller... If not annihilated. Austria pulls the trigger on Italy this round, as Jimmy makes a valiant foray into the Tyrrhenian but simply gets shut down. My thanks, Jimmy, for continuing to fight it out right till the bitter end. =)
Meanwhile, both the larger two powers find themselves agonizingly close to the solo. Can either take it?
No retreats are required from the Fall turn, although the French in Portugal and the aforementioned Italians in Naples find themselves vaporized... Deadline for Winter 1912 adjustments will be set for Thursday, June 18th (11:59 PM GMT).
Please let me know if you see any errors. Cheers!
Talking-To-Self Trout
Movement results for Fall of 1912. (DC 212 12 FALL)
Austria: F Adriatic Sea Supports F Ionian Sea.
Austria: A Apulia - Naples.
Austria: A Bohemia Supports A Munich.
Austria: A Galicia - Warsaw.
Austria: F Gulf of Lyon Supports F Marseilles (*Cut*).
Austria: F Ionian Sea Supports F Tyrrhenian Sea.
Austria: A Munich Supports A Silesia.
Austria: A Piedmont Supports F Marseilles.
Austria: A Rome Supports A Apulia - Naples.
Austria: A Sevastopol - Moscow (*Fails*).
Austria: A Silesia Supports A Galicia - Warsaw.
Austria: A Tyrolia Supports A Munich.
Austria: F Tyrrhenian Sea Supports F Gulf of Lyon (*Cut*).
Austria: A Ukraine Supports A Galicia - Warsaw.
England: A Burgundy Supports A Gascony - Marseilles.
England: A Gascony - Marseilles (*Fails*).
England: A Holland - Kiel.
England: F Mid-Atlantic Ocean Supports F Spain(sc) - Portugal.
England: F North Africa Supports F Tunis.
England: F Norway - St Petersburg (*Invalid Coast*).
England: F Norwegian Sea - Barents Sea.
England: A Ruhr Supports A Holland - Kiel.
England: F Spain(sc) - Portugal.
England: A Sweden - Finland.
England: F Tunis Supports F Naples - Tyrrhenian Sea.
England: F Western Mediterranean - Gulf of Lyon (*Fails*).
France: F Marseilles Supports F Gulf of Lyon (*Cut*).
France: F Portugal - Spain(sc) (*Disbanded*).
Italy: F Naples - Tyrrhenian Sea (*Disbanded*).
Russia: A Berlin - Prussia (*Fails*).
Russia: A Livonia Supports A Warsaw - Moscow.
Russia: A Prussia - Warsaw (*Fails*).
Russia: A St Petersburg Supports A Warsaw - Moscow.
Russia: A Warsaw - Moscow.
Unit locations:
Austria: F Adriatic Sea, A Bohemia, F Gulf of Lyon, F Ionian Sea, A Munich, A
Naples, A Piedmont, A Rome, A Sevastopol, A Silesia, A Tyrolia, F
Tyrrhenian Sea, A Ukraine, A Warsaw.
England: F Barents Sea, A Burgundy, A Finland, A Gascony, A Kiel, F
Mid-Atlantic Ocean, F North Africa, F Norway, F Portugal, A Ruhr, F
Tunis, F Western Mediterranean.
France: F Marseilles, F Portugal.
Italy: F Naples.
Russia: A Berlin, A Livonia, A Moscow, A Prussia, A St Petersburg.
Ownership of supply centers:
Austria: Ankara, Budapest, Bulgaria, Constantinople, Greece, Munich, Naples,
Rome, Rumania, Serbia, Sevastopol, Smyrna, Trieste, Venice, Vienna,
Warsaw.
England: Belgium, Brest, Denmark, Edinburgh, Holland, Kiel, Liverpool,
London, Norway, Paris, Portugal, Spain, Sweden, Tunis.
France: Marseilles
Russia: Berlin, Moscow, St Petersburg.
Austria: 16 Supply centers, 14 Units: Builds 2 units.
England: 14 Supply centers, 12 Units: Builds 2 units.
France: 1 Supply center, 1 Unit: Builds 0 units.
Germany: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
Italy: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
Russia: 3 Supply centers, 5 Units: Removes 2 units.
Turkey: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
NEXT DEADLINE: WINTER 1912 ADJUSTMENTS DUE THURSDAY, JUNE 18TH (11:59 PM GMT)!![Reply] |
DC230 Lost Kings - Winter 06 - The King Of Bedside... - former.trout (Jun 17, 2009, 12:24 am) |
Heya folks,
Well, we have a slight miscue from the Arch-Duke on the Austrian build. The red forces ordered a new unit in Venice - but of course, not only is that an Italian center but there already is an army in that space... With apologies, we have to waive the Austrian build.
Meanwhile, its armies in Marseilles and Berlin for France and Germany respectively.
That does it for Winter 06. Deadline for Spring 1907 orders will be set for Monday, June 22nd (11:59 PM GMT). Also, please don't forget to send your yay or nay votes for the French-German 2-way draw by that same deadline.
Cheers!
Not-Polite Company Trout
Adjustment orders for Winter of 1906. (DC230 06 WIN)
Austria: Build waived.
France: Build A Marseilles.
Germany: Build A Berlin.
Unit locations:
Austria: F Adriatic Sea, A Armenia, A Budapest, A Bulgaria, F Constantinople,
A Rumania, A Vienna.
France: A Edinburgh, F Ionian Sea, F London, A Marseilles, A Piedmont, F
Rome, F Tunis, A Tuscany, F Tyrrhenian Sea, F Yorkshire.
Germany: F Belgium, A Berlin, A Bohemia, A Galicia, A Holland, A Moscow, A
Munich, F Norway, A Sevastopol, A Silesia, A Tyrolia, A Warsaw.
Italy: F Naples, A Venice.
Turkey: F Ankara.
Ownership of supply centers:
Austria: Budapest, Bulgaria, Constantinople, Rumania, Serbia, Smyrna,
Trieste, Vienna.
France: Brest, Edinburgh, Liverpool, London, Marseilles, Paris, Portugal,
Rome, Spain, Tunis.
Germany: Belgium, Berlin, Denmark, Holland, Kiel, Moscow, Munich, Norway,
Sevastopol, St Petersburg, Sweden, Warsaw.
Italy: Greece, Naples, Venice.
Turkey: Ankara.
Austria: 8 Supply centers, 7 Units: Builds 1 unit.
England: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
France: 10 Supply centers, 10 Units: Builds 0 units.
Germany: 12 Supply centers, 12 Units: Builds 0 units.
Italy: 3 Supply centers, 2 Units: Builds 0 units.
Russia: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
Turkey: 1 Supply center, 1 Unit: Builds 0 units.
NEXT DEADLINE: SPRING 1907 ORDERS DUE MONDAY, JUNE 22ND (11:59 PM GMT)!![Reply] |
DC250 My Army Is Bigger - Fall 1904 - Forever Inde... - former.trout (Jun 17, 2009, 12:14 am) |
Heya folks,
The missing orders come in, and while we include them in the adjudication we'll unfortunately task our Italian friend with an NMR. Meanwhile on the board - Russia relocates back to the bomb-shelters of Moscow, Turkey slides up the coast to Albania and Germany rolls out the Blitzkrieg and Blitzes!
Sadly, we say farewell to our intrepid Englishman this turn as well, as the last two blue centers were gobbled up. Thanks for fighting it out to the end, Dan - and we'll see you in the next one!
Two retreats, but both were English. I took the liberty of bouncing them in the English Channel and disbanding them - which means we move directly on into the Winter of 1904. Germany builds 3, Turkey 1 and Italy and Russia must put down one of their units.
Deadline for Winter 04 will be set for Thursday, June 18th (11:59 PM GMT). Just let me know if you spot an error.
Cheers!
Butchers Bill Trout
Movement results for Fall of 1904. (DC 250 04 EW)
Austria: A Budapest Supports A Serbia.
Austria: A Galicia - Vienna.
Austria: A Rome - Venice (*Fails*).
Austria: A Serbia Hold.
Austria: A Trieste Supports A Rome - Venice.
England: F Brest Hold (*Dislodged*).
England: F London Hold (*Dislodged*).
France: A Gascony - Marseilles (*Fails*).
France: F Marseilles - Piedmont (*Fails*).
France: F Mid-Atlantic Ocean Supports A Picardy - Brest.
France: A Picardy - Brest.
France: F Wales - London (*Fails*).
Germany: F Baltic Sea - Denmark.
Germany: A Burgundy - Paris.
Germany: A Holland - Belgium.
Germany: F North Sea - London.
Germany: F Norwegian Sea - North Atlantic Ocean.
Germany: A Prussia - Warsaw.
Germany: A Silesia Supports A Prussia - Warsaw.
Germany: A St Petersburg Supports A Warsaw - Moscow.
Germany: A Yorkshire Supports F North Sea - London.
Italy: F Ionian Sea - Naples.
Italy: A Piedmont - Venice (*Fails*).
Italy: F Tyrrhenian Sea Supports A Venice - Rome.
Italy: A Venice - Rome (*Fails*).
Russia: F Armenia - Ankara (*Bounce*).
Russia: A Warsaw - Moscow.
Turkey: F Black Sea - Constantinople.
Turkey: F Bulgaria(ec) Supports F Rumania.
Turkey: A Greece - Albania.
Turkey: F Rumania Hold.
Turkey: A Sevastopol Supports F Rumania.
Turkey: A Smyrna - Ankara (*Bounce*).
Retreat orders for Fall of 1904. (DC 250 04 EW)
England: F Brest - English Channel (*Bounce*).
England: F London - English Channel (*Bounce*).
Unit locations:
Austria: A Budapest, A Rome, A Serbia, A Trieste, A Vienna.
France: A Brest, A Gascony, F Marseilles, F Mid-Atlantic Ocean, F Wales.
Germany: A Belgium, F Denmark, F London, F North Atlantic Ocean, A Paris, A
Silesia, A St Petersburg, A Warsaw, A Yorkshire.
Italy: F Naples, A Piedmont, F Tyrrhenian Sea, A Venice.
Russia: F Armenia, A Moscow.
Turkey: A Albania, F Bulgaria(ec), F Constantinople, F Rumania, A
Sevastopol, A Smyrna.
Ownership of supply centers:
Austria: Budapest, Rome, Serbia, Trieste, Vienna.
France: Brest, Liverpool, Marseilles, Portugal, Spain.
Germany: Belgium, Berlin, Denmark, Edinburgh, Holland, Kiel, London, Munich,
Norway, Paris, St Petersburg, Sweden, Warsaw.
Italy: Naples, Tunis, Venice.
Russia: Moscow.
Turkey: Ankara, Bulgaria, Constantinople, Greece, Rumania, Sevastopol,
Smyrna.
Austria: 5 Supply centers, 5 Units: Builds 0 units.
England: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
France: 5 Supply centers, 5 Units: Builds 0 units.
Germany: 13 Supply centers, 9 Units: Builds 3 units.
Italy: 3 Supply centers, 4 Units: Removes 1 unit.
Russia: 1 Supply center, 2 Units: Removes 1 unit.
Turkey: 7 Supply centers, 6 Units: Builds 1 unit.
NEXT DEADLINE: WINTER 1904 ADJUSTMENTS DUE THURSDAY, JUNE 18TH (11:59 PM GMT)!![Reply] |
DC261 - Spring 1901 Reminder - aramis604 (Jun 16, 2009, 11:10 pm) |
Orders are due in just under 24 hours.
I still need a couple sets; please make sure that if you haven't gotten a reply from me saying your orders are received, resend them.
- Josh[Reply] |
WWIV Friday! - FuzzyLogic (Jun 16, 2009, 9:40 pm) |
Today’s reminder is extra-friendly as we send out the ole’ heave-ho for a timely Friday turn!
From: Michael Sims
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 9:33 AM
Subject: WWIV w15 builds!
At long last, the record setting build turn is out…
(The EGPs were voted down)
NEXT: Spring 16, due Friday June 19, 6pm Pacific!
**************************************************
RETREATS:
California:
A Chihuahua(chu) - Arizona(arz)
Remove F Guatamala Basin(gub)
Nigeria:
A Khartoum(kha) - Ethiopia(eth)
Philippines:
F Java Sea(jav) - Banjarmasin(bnj)
**************************************************
BUILDS:
California:
Remove F North Central Pacific Ocean(ncp)
Remove F Zacatcas(zac)
Remove A Guadalajara(gdl)
Catholica:
Build F Paris(par)
Build waived
Build waived
Illinois:
Build F Quebec(qbc)
Build F New Orleans(no)
Build F Havana(hav)
Build A Montreal(mtl)
Build A Toronto(tor)
Build A Detroit(det)
Build A Vancouver(van)
Build A Kansas(kan)
Build A San Antonio(san)
Build A Veracruz(vcz)
India:
Build A Calcutta(cal)
Build A Mandalay(mdl)
Oceania:
Build F Samoa(sam)
SouthAfrica:
Build F Diego Garcia(die)
Thailand:
Defaults, removing A Laos(lao)
Turkey:
Build waived
Build waived
Build waived
Build waived
UnitedKingdom:
Remove F Ireland(ire)
Remove F Irish Sea(iri)[Reply] |
DC 211: GM EoG - former.trout (Jun 16, 2009, 9:09 pm) |
Just to be fair to everyone - the brilliant use of Rule 8 was at Matt's suggestion. I had vaguely considered it - but it was at Matt's urging that it was put into action. I can't really take credit for it - I'm not that smart. =)
Apologies for not getting an EOG out. Time and tides, as they say...
Thanks for the game, all.
Trout
On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 10:34 AM, Adam Martin-Schwarze <smegdwarf(at)yahoo.com ([email]smegdwarf(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
Well, I think we’ve gotten just about all the scattered player EoGs that are going to roll in, especially with Lytton and Trout moving into new phases with life (or at least with DC). So, now it’s the GM's turn to share reflections.
I said this in my end of game announcement, but it bears repeating: the seven of you made this game easy to GM. There were a few scattered NMRs, it is true; however, for the most part, I could rely on having all orders in my inbox on time. Thank you for you dedication and your high level of play.
This game has led me to a hypothesis, and I can argue both sides.
H0: while amusing and distracting, seismic rules don’t really change the game.
The logic is Nathan Bedford Forrest’s: “I got there firstest with the mostest men.” It seems to me that Diplomacy follows the same principle, and in DC 211, the wisdom still applied. Once they established their alliance, EF always pointed eastward with concentrated force, while the AR alliance – which at one point outnumbered the EF – had scattered eastern remnants that did not arrive at the front until too late. Occasionally, I would squint at the board and say, “if I transfer the pieces onto a standard board, is this position really any different?” Generally, the answer was: not too much.
A couple of you stated or inferred that Turkey was able to slow his demise with his seismics (1906? Really?). I have myself mused whether the existence of seismic rules sped or slowed the erosion of AR territory. It’s hard to tell. While I suspect there was no great change, I would guess things were slower (though, to be fair, the game would likely have ended in a draw without the Seismics, and you cannot get much slower than that).
There were no rogue units behind enemy lines in this game (though that French fleet in Ionian likely was about to become one). And inversely, there was some ferocious amassing of force both in Berlin and Rome. Failed 5:5 attacks! Predictable for the variant, I suppose, but it always staggered my imagination. So, in this one-game sample size, the seismic rules appear to have favored a plodding and methodical crushing advance. But maybe that was just Matt’s style of play permeating the board… or the even balance of alliances. (Then again, maybe players divided evenly in fear of being on the wrong side of a seismics power imbalance).
On the other side of the argument, I think it is clear that the seismic rules potently influenced the game. In a standard game, this game would have, should have, and most certainly in some parallel universe did end with a four-way draw astraddle the StP-Tunis stalemate line. But shifting borders meant that the position could not actually stalemate.
Plus, I did observe some nice streamlining strategies using seismics. In Fall 1901, a lot of alliances used seismics to create safe zones (splitting Brest from the Channel; Belgium from the North Sea; and Trieste from the Adriatic). Also, for awhile, Mike and Steve tried to coordinate seismics one front at a time in order to provide a push. I was surprised not to see more of that. (Steve’s hope to encircle an AR sanctuary had less success).
I never did see anybody submit a mischief seismic (for example, what if Russia had tried “Iri/NAt split; MAt/Lvp join”? Surely that could have created trouble between EF? I’m thinking to make seismics anonymous in my next game in order to promote more mischief). Nobody tried to isolate a territory and reconnect it (for example, landing a fleet in Syria, isolating it in OUT, and then reattaching it to MAt). And I didn’t see EF try to help out Turkey via seismics in exchange for his ongoing seismics.
Still, in the end, I believe the human and strategic elements of the game far outweighed the cute rules modifications. It’s certainly hard to ferret out the effects of the one from the other. And those elements were? In my opinion:
(1) The Austrian stab of Italy. I found it interesting that Mike was unabashed about his stab of Greg, because (along with #2), I think this is where he lost the game (though to be fair, it could also have produced a win… one must gamble if one wants victory). Without the stab, outnumbered in troops and seismics, EF loses. Games often boil down to major gambles like this. I’m sure both Mike and Greg are sorry that this had to be the gamble.
(2) Miscommunications and Steve. Specifically, there was the German misorder in S1905 that eliminated the Kaiser from the game. It’s all the difference between HOL and HEL. But as the order clearly said HEL, there was nothing I could do. Also, there was the Abbott and Costello routine whereby Steve attacked Denmark and Mike supported him to hold. It cost them Berlin and arguably the game. Steve might have fared very well in this game but for these two costly blunders, but we’ll never know.
(3) No navies. There were a few decisions in this game that confused me. For instance, on the last seismic, why didn’t Matt order “Gre/Tri split; Ser/Ion join”? It would have carved Gre/Bul/Con off from the rest of Austria’s territory and made easy, easy pickings. The position around GoL was secure enough to allow for it. For that matter, somewhere along the line, I thought Mike should connect Tus/Spa, close the strait, and (at least termporarily) lock those French fleets in Tys/GoL. Russia’s S1906 Seismic also baffled me. I know Steve was trying to protect against “StP/Nwy split; Swe/Bar join” (which would’ve created a strait that funneled English fleets into Barents). The better move was “StP/Swe split; Fin/Nwy join”, which provides Russian counterpressure on Norway and forces England to re-open the road to Barents before making progress.
But I digress. My point was going to be about the games second biggest strategic decision (next to Mike’s stab of Greg). I’m talking about Steve’s decision in W1906 to build an army in Moscow instead of a fleet. Trout had just connected Moscow to GoB (which I thought was also a mistake), and Steve now had the chance to build a fleet in Moscow to help counteract that pesky English fleet locked in GoB/Bal. For the next two game years, that English fleet would operate alone in those chilly waters unhampered by Russia and unaided by other English fleets. Worse, after W1906 and for the rest of the game, Russia got absolutely pounded by England’s fleets. Difference maker? Yeah. Navies: they’re a good thing.
Matt’s EoG leads me to ponder more openly: does Seismic Dip augment the influence of fleets? Armies can never float on water, but fleets can always go to land – provided that the land has a coast. But with so many borders, I suspect it is easier to connect land to water than to keep it high and dry and coast-less. In Standard Dip, fleets are restricted by the existing coastline and various bottlenecks, but Seismic Dip unbinds the fleets. Regardless of whether fleets are more powerful in the variant, the EF fleet strategy was a master stroke in this game.
(4) Guile. As is common in Dip, one ‘weak’ player creates a dynamic. Guile’s opening year featured unconventional moves and unproductive seismics resulting in no builds. He became a target (much like me in my first ever game of Diplomacy when I let Italy convince me that Greece was an Italian center in 1901 and not Austrian… I died quickly). When a player operates like this, neighbors are left with two courses of action. The more common is what Trout and Matt did – gobble up the centers for oenself. The less common is what Steve did in modified form, and it is a course I prefer to advocate (even if I don’t always do it): take the newbie under your wing. First of all, it tends to lead to strong alliances with good future prospects for stabbing (because they don’t know not to trust me, in spite of that long rusty blood-encrusted dagger in my hand); I have a near-solo and a shared board top to show for this strategy. Second, at least as importantly, it gives the new player a positive experience of the game and teaches them a hell of a lot about how to play the game. And we do want people to come back. So, there’s a little moralizing for you… though it’s easy to argue that Matt and Trout won this game because they abused the German position, and it’s certainly hard to argue with success.
Okay. On to a couple closing thoughts. There were some brilliant seismics. No doubt Trout’s use of Rule 8 to switch his fleet from the Skagerrak coast of Sweden to the Baltic coast was a total and devastating triumph. A++. I also liked Greg’s decision (while in NAf) to connect NAf to Portugal, thus delaying the inevitable French ouster. I didn’t see that one coming. There were many other good moves, but those are the ones that come to mind.
I am not ready to give up on isthmus rules yet, but they appeared to confuse. Most often, they were simply overlooked, and straits were created when they were not intended (or vice versa). I will have to work harder on educating players about isthmus options in the next game, because I think the game is better with them than without.
I look forward to GMing all of you again in another game of seismic. I really enjoyed this one.
Adam
[Reply] |
DC-239 GM's an Idiot - TheWhiteWolf (Jun 16, 2009, 6:24 pm) |
Folks,
Obviously, the last adjudication was Spring. The subject line said Fall (d'oh!) but everything else was right. Sorry about that.
That's all, you can go on with your lives ;o)
Wolf
I'm a Firefly fan and proud! Read my fiction:
http://www.fanfiction.net/u/1369632/[Reply] |
DC-250 - Late Order Delay - Colonel_Mustard (Jun 16, 2009, 6:14 pm) |
It wasn't me.
-- Dan (Eng).
From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com>
To: dc250(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Cc: Christian MacDonald <mouldingandmillwork(at)yahoo.com>; Dan Huck <aefgirt7(at)yahoo.com>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com>; John Curran <thomasdaddy(at)msn.com>; manolis tagarakis <etagarakis(at)hotmail.com>; Shawn Buis <thanksliving(at)hotmail.com>; Thor Egil Braadland <thoregil.braadland(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 1:38:20 AM
Subject: DC-250 - Late Order Delay
Heya folks,
I'm sorry but we have one set of late orders for the Fall 04 turn. The player in question has been notified and I will hold things until tomorrow in hopes of gathering the late moves.
Please note that while I am including the orders in the adjudication, the player will be assigned an NMR for stats purposes. This is to fit with recent site policy change - and makes sense seeing as how the orders are, actually, not received at deadline time.
Thanks for your patience all. Cheers!
Trout[Reply] |
DC226 Before Fall press - hapolley (Jun 16, 2009, 6:11 pm) |
Dear Archduke,
Now that we have the Islamic forces in Vienna surrounded we feel that it's time to bring Vienna back under Christian rule. We want to attack Vienna this Fall and would like to know if we will have your support. May we succeed in taking back the lands stolen from us by that treacherous Turk!
Yours truly,
The Emperor,
Yahoo! Canada Toolbar : Search from anywhere on the web and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now! [Reply] |
DC226 Before Fall press (dc226) hapolley Jun 17, 06:16 pm |
Emperor,
Your request for assistance in removing the Turks from Vienna comes as a bit of a surprise to me. You see, my only means of support comes from Budapest, which is sure to be cut from Rum & Bul. On the other hand, if Boh supports Bud -> Vie, that support cannot be cut. But if I don't hear back from you, I will order Bud to support your attack and hope for the best.
Archduke Mike
===================================
England,
We face a strong foe with the Turk. He does not talk to anyone, and yet he has the lion's share of centers right now. This is not a good sign for our future. Let us not fight over the Med, but support each other and hold the stalemate line.
Archduke Mike
======================
Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail |
DC-244 Delay - TheWhiteWolf (Jun 16, 2009, 4:00 pm) |
Folks,
Normally, I'd NMR anyone who didn't have their orders in by now, but three of you are guilty this time! Get me those orders as soon as possible. New deadline is Thursday, 18 June at 2pm CDT (7pm GMT.)
Seriously, get your orders in.
Wolf
I'm a Firefly fan and proud! Read my fiction:
http://www.fanfiction.net/u/1369632/[Reply] |
Dc-239 Player Change of Email / Deadline Reminder - TheWhiteWolf (Jun 16, 2009, 3:54 pm) |
Folks,
I screwed up. After reassuring Thomas that I would inform you all of a change of email on his part, I didn't. Thomas has changed his email to "forgodandglory(at)yahoo.com". Please use this address when corresponding with him from now on.
Deadline is in 22 hours - I'm still short three order sets and four votes.
Wolf
I'm a Firefly fan and proud! Read my fiction:
http://www.fanfiction.net/u/1369632/[Reply] |
DC-227 Spring 1920 Adjudication - TheWhiteWolf (Jun 16, 2009, 3:37 pm) |
Folks,
All three end-game proposals have failed. Amazingly, both solo proposals had more yes votes than the two-way draw. Interesting to see. No new proposals have been tabled this turn, so you only need to worry about orders this time around.
England gains ground this turn, but not as much as he had hoped. Turkey gains a better position against Italy, as Germany shores up their lines against the sultan. England managed to dislodge two enemy units, but neither had a valid retreat, so we'll be moving straight into fall.
I'll be moving beginning on the 23rd (next Tuesday,) but I'll probably only be completely offline for two to three days. Even if I can't get internet set up at my new place right away, I'll be able to borrow a family member's connection. I've set the fall deadline for Monday - please don't be late. I intend to get the fall turn out before my move, and winter (or autumn, if there are retreats) just after I get where I'm going.
Players:
Austria: Matt Kelly <kelly058(at)verizon.net>
England: Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com>
France: Andrew Ott <drew3739o(at)yahoo.com>
Germany: Michael Stroz <mistro914(at)gmail.com>
Italy: Mark Utterbach <mdemagogue(at)gmail.com>
Russia: Jeffrey Clay <jmc66(at)mac.com>
Turkey: Ilyas Erzik <IErzik(at)mail.az>
Orders:
England:
F Barents Sea Supports A St Petersburg
A Belgium - Ruhr (*Fails*)
F Denmark Supports F Skagerrak - Baltic Sea
F English Channel Convoys A London - Gascony
A Finland Supports A St Petersburg (*Cut*)
F Helgoland Bight - Kiel (*Fails*)
A Holland Supports F Helgoland Bight - Kiel
F Irish Sea - Mid-Atlantic Ocean (*Fails*)
A London - Gascony (*Bounce*)
A Marseilles Supports A Paris - Burgundy
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean Convoys A London - Gascony
F North Africa Supports F Western Mediterranean - Tunis
F North Sea - Helgoland Bight (*Fails*)
A Paris - Burgundy
A Picardy Supports A Paris - Burgundy
F Skagerrak - Baltic Sea (*Fails*)
F Spain(sc) - Western Mediterranean
A St Petersburg Hold
F Sweden Supports F Skagerrak - Baltic Sea
F Western Mediterranean - Tunis
France:
F Gulf of Lyon - Tyrrhenian Sea (*Fails*)
Germany:
F Baltic Sea - Denmark (*Fails*)
F Berlin Supports A Kiel
A Bohemia - Galicia
A Budapest Hold
A Burgundy - Gascony (*Disbanded*)
F Gulf of Bothnia - Finland (*Fails*)
A Kiel Supports A Ruhr (*Cut*)
A Livonia Supports A Moscow
A Moscow Supports A Livonia
A Munich - Burgundy (*Fails*)
A Prussia Hold
A Ruhr Supports A Munich - Burgundy (*Cut*)
A Tyrolia - Venice (*Fails*)
A Ukraine Supports A Bohemia - Galicia
A Vienna Supports A Budapest
A Warsaw Supports A Moscow
Italy:
F Adriatic Sea - Venice
F Apulia Supports F Adriatic Sea - Venice
F Naples - Ionian Sea (*Fails*)
A Piedmont Hold
F Tunis Hold (*Disbanded*)
F Tuscany Supports A Piedmont
F Tyrrhenian Sea Supports F Tunis (*Cut*)
Turkey:
F Aegean Sea - Ionian Sea
F Albania Supports F Ionian Sea - Adriatic Sea
A Armenia Supports A Sevastopol
F Black Sea - Rumania
A Bulgaria - Constantinople
F Constantinople - Smyrna
F Greece Supports F Aegean Sea - Ionian Sea
F Ionian Sea - Adriatic Sea
A Rumania - Bulgaria
A Serbia Supports F Trieste
A Sevastopol Supports F Black Sea - Rumania
F Trieste Supports F Ionian Sea - Adriatic Sea
Retreats:
German A Burgundy has no retreats, disbanded.
Italian F Tunis has no retreats, disbanded.
Unit Positions: (SCs/Units)
Austria: ELIMINATED
England: (20/20)
Armies - Bel, Bur, Fin, Hol, Lon, Mar, Pic, StP
Fleets - Bar, Den, Eng, Hel, Iri, MAO, NAf, Nth, Ska, Swe, Tun, Wes
France: (1/1)
Fleets - Lyo
Germany: (16/15)
Armies - Bud, Gal, Kie, Lvn, Mun, Pru, Ruh, Trl, Ukr, Vie, War
Fleets - Bal, Ber, Bot
Italy: (7/6)
Armies - Pie
Fleets - Apu, Nap, Tus, Tys, Ven
Russia: ELIMINATED
Turkey: (12/12)
Armies - Arm, Bul, Con, Ser, Sev
Fleets - Adr, Alb, Gre, Ion, Rum, Smy, Tri
Deadline:
Fall 1920 is due Monday, 22 June at 2pm CDT (7pm GMT.)
Any issues or errors, let me know.
Map and RP file are attached for your convenience, enjoy!
Thanks all,
The White Wolf
I'm a Firefly fan and proud! Read my fiction:
http://www.fanfiction.net/u/1369632/[Reply] |
DC255 Autumn/Winter 1903 Results - MattTheLesser (Jun 16, 2009, 2:56 pm) |
As promised, early orders equals an early adjudication. Red retreats F
Ice - Gar and then builds F Ver, while Dark builds A Jet. Spring 1904
is due this Friday, June 19, at 9 pm eastern.
Matt
1
DC255
Chromatic
Spring 1904
0
5
0
Cob, Sap, Roy, Mag.
A Cob, F Aqu, F Cer, A Roy
0
Sil, Bro, Obs, Ebo, Jet.
F Ice, F Sil, A Jet, F Pap, A Ink
0
Ala, Ivo.
F Sno, A Cha
0
Gar, Gho, Cri, Ver, Rub, Cry.
F Gar, F Ros, A Gho, F Ver, A Cry, A Saf
0
Top, Gol, Sun, Mal.
A Sun, F Eme, F Mal, F For
0
v2
9
1 1902
R-L-L----La-----D-D---DaLaRa--R----RaBaRaDa----YY-Ya-B--Y-----Ba-B
RLLLLDDDDRRRRYYYBYBBB
0
0 0 0 0 0
0
Blue: A Col - Saf
Blue: F Cob - Eme
Blue: A Azu - Cob
Blue: F Mag - Aqu (*Bounce*)
Dark: F Bro - Nig
Dark: F Obs - Coa
Dark: A Jet - Pap
Dark: A Ink Supports A Pap - Cry
Light: F Sil - Ice (*Bounce*)
Light: F Ala - Sno
Light: A Gho - Hot (*Fails*)
Light: A Pap - Cry
Red: F Gar - Ice (*Bounce*)
Red: A Hot Supports A Cry (*Cut*)
Red: F Ver - Car
Red: A Rub Supports A Hot
Red: A Cry Supports A Col - Saf (*Dislodged*)
Yellow: F Top - Cya
Yellow: F Gol - Sul
Yellow: A Sul - Sun
Yellow: F Mal - Aqu (*Bounce*)
2 1902
R-L--L-R-La----D---D---DaRa-------Ra-LaDa------YaYBaBaBYY-------B
RLLLLDDDDRRRRYYYBYBBB
0
0 0 0 0 0
1
Red A Cry Col
Red: A Cry - Col
3 1902
R-L--L-R-La----D---D---DaRa-------RaRaLaDa------YaYBaBaBYY-------B
RLLLLDDDDRRRRYYYBYBBB
0
0 0 0 0 0
0
Blue: A Saf - Cob
Blue: A Cob - Azu
Blue: F Eme - For (*Dislodged*)
Blue: F Mag - Aqu
Dark: F Nig Supports F Coa - Mer
Dark: F Coa - Mer
Dark: A Pap - Gho
Dark: A Ink Supports A Col - Cry
Light: F Sil - Ice
Light: F Sno Supports F Sil - Ice
Light: A Gho - Hot (*Dislodged*)
Light: A Cry Supports A Gho - Hot (*Dislodged*)
Red: F Gar - Ice (*Fails*)
Red: F Car - Ros
Red: A Hot Supports A Pap - Gho
Red: A Rub - Col
Red: A Col - Cry
Yellow: A Sun - Sul
Yellow: F Sul - Eme
Yellow: F Cya Supports F Sul - Eme
Yellow: F Mal - For (*Bounce*)
4 1902
RL---L--RDa---DD--------Ra--------RaRaDa-------Ya-BaYYY-B---Ba--
RLLLLDDDDRRRRYYYBYBBB
0
0 0 0 0 0
3
Light A Gho Ivo Cha
Light A Cry Pap Saf
Blue F Eme Saf
Blue: Remove F Eme
Light: A Gho - Cha
Light: A Cry - Pap
5 1902
RL---L--RDa-La-DD-------LaRa--------RaRaDa-------Ya-BaYYY-B---Ba--
RLLDLDDDDRRRRYYYBYBBB
3
1 1 -1 0 0
0
Blue: Build F Sap
Dark: Build F Jet
Light: Remove F Ice
1 1903
R----L--RDa-La-DD------DLaRa--------RaRaDa-------Ya-BaYYY-B-B-Ba--
RLLDLDDDDRRRRYYYBYBBB
0
0 0 0 0 0
0
Blue: A Cob Supports A Col - Saf
Blue: F Aqu - Mal (*Fails*)
Blue: F Sap - Cer
Blue: A Azu - Roy
Dark: A Gho Supports F Jet - Pap
Dark: F Mer - Lea
Dark: F Nig - Sil
Dark: F Jet - Pap
Dark: A Ink Supports F Jet - Pap
Light: F Sno, no move received
Light: A Cha, no move received
Light: A Pap, no move received (*Disbanded*)
Red: F Gar - Ice
Red: F Ros Supports A Gho
Red: A Hot Supports A Gho
Red: A Col - Saf
Red: A Cry Supports A Col - Saf
Yellow: A Sul - Saf (*Fails*)
Yellow: F Eme Supports A Sul - Saf
Yellow: F Cya - For
Yellow: F Mal Supports F Cya - For (*Cut*)
3 1903
-RDD-L--RDa-La----------DRa---------RaDa-------YaRaBaY-YYBB-Ba---
RLLDLDDDDRRRRYYYBYBBB
0
0 0 1 0 0
0
Blue: A Cob Supports A Saf (*Cut*)
Blue: F Aqu Supports F Cer (*Cut*)
Blue: F Cer Supports F Aqu
Blue: A Roy Supports A Cob
Dark: F Sil Supports F Lea - Ice
Dark: F Lea - Ice
Dark: A Gho - Ivo (*Disbanded*)
Dark: F Pap Hold
Dark: A Ink Supports F Pap
Light: F Sno - Ala (*Bounce*)
Light: A Cha - Ivo (*Bounce*)
Red: F Ice - Ala (*Dislodged*)
Red: F Ros Supports A Hot - Gho
Red: A Hot - Gho
Red: A Cry Supports A Saf
Red: A Saf Supports A Ink - Sun (*Void*)
Yellow: A Sul - Sun
Yellow: F Eme - Saf (*Fails*)
Yellow: F Mal - Aqu (*Fails*)
Yellow: F For - Cob (*Fails*)
4 1903
-DD--L--RRa-La----------D----------RaDa------Ya-RaBaY-YYBB-Ba---
RLLDLDDDDRRRRYYYBYBBB
0
0 1 1 0 0
1
Red F Ice Gar Che
Red: F Ice - Gar
5 1903
RDD--L--RRa-La----------D----------RaDa------Ya-RaBaY-YYBB-Ba---
RDLRLDDDDRRRRYYYBYBBB
2
0 1 0 1 0
0
Dark: Build A Jet
Red: Build F Ver
-1
Blue: A Cobalt, no move received
Blue: F Aquatic Sea, no move received
Blue: F Cerulean, no move received
Blue: A Royal, no move received
Dark: F Sea Of Ice, no move received
Dark: F Silver, no move received
Dark: A Jet, no move received
Dark: F Paper, no move received
Dark: A Ink, no move received
Light: F Snow, no move received
Light: A Chalk, no move received
Red: F Garnet, no move received
Red: F Bay Of Roses, no move received
Red: A Ghost, no move received
Red: F Vermillion, no move received
Red: A Crystal, no move received
Red: A Saffron, no move received
Yellow: A Sunshine, no move received
Yellow: F Bay Of Emeralds, no move received
Yellow: F Malachite, no move received
Yellow: F Forest Sea, no move received[Reply] |
DC 211: GM EoG - AceRimmer (Jun 16, 2009, 11:34 am) |
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Well, I think we’ve gotten just about all the scattered player EoGs that are going to roll in, especially with Lytton and Trout moving into new phases with life (or at least with DC). So, now it’s the GM's turn to share reflections.
I said this in my end of game announcement, but it bears repeating: the seven of you made this game easy to GM. There were a few scattered NMRs, it is true; however, for the most part, I could rely on having all orders in my inbox on time. Thank you for you dedication and your high level of play.
This game has led me to a hypothesis, and I can argue both sides.
H0: while amusing and distracting, seismic rules don’t really change the game.
The logic is Nathan Bedford Forrest’s: “I got there firstest with the mostest men.†It seems to me that Diplomacy follows the same principle, and in DC 211, the wisdom still applied. Once they established their alliance, EF always pointed eastward with concentrated force, while the AR alliance – which at one point outnumbered the EF – had scattered eastern remnants that did not arrive at the front until too late. Occasionally, I would squint at the board and say, “if I transfer the pieces onto a standard board, is this position really any different?†Generally, the answer was: not too much.
A couple of you stated or inferred that Turkey was able to slow his demise with his seismics (1906? Really?). I have myself mused whether the existence of seismic rules sped or slowed the erosion of AR territory. It’s hard to tell. While I suspect there was no great change, I would guess things were slower (though, to be fair, the game would likely have ended in a draw without the Seismics, and you cannot get much slower than that).
There were no rogue units behind enemy lines in this game (though that French fleet in Ionian likely was about to become one). And inversely, there was some ferocious amassing of force both in Berlin and Rome. Failed 5:5 attacks! Predictable for the variant, I suppose, but it always staggered my imagination. So, in this one-game sample size, the seismic rules appear to have favored a plodding and methodical crushing advance. But maybe that was just Matt’s style of play permeating the board… or the even balance of alliances. (Then again, maybe players divided evenly in fear of being on the wrong side of a seismics power imbalance).
On the other side of the argument, I think it is clear that the seismic rules potently influenced the game. In a standard game, this game would have, should have, and most certainly in some parallel universe did end with a four-way draw astraddle the StP-Tunis stalemate line. But shifting borders meant that the position could not actually stalemate.
Plus, I did observe some nice streamlining strategies using seismics. In Fall 1901, a lot of alliances used seismics to create safe zones (splitting Brest from the Channel; Belgium from the North Sea; and Trieste from the Adriatic). Also, for awhile, Mike and Steve tried to coordinate seismics one front at a time in order to provide a push. I was surprised not to see more of that. (Steve’s hope to encircle an AR sanctuary had less success).
I never did see anybody submit a mischief seismic (for example, what if Russia had tried “Iri/NAt split; MAt/Lvp join� Surely that could have created trouble between EF? I’m thinking to make seismics anonymous in my next game in order to promote more mischief). Nobody tried to isolate a territory and reconnect it (for example, landing a fleet in Syria, isolating it in OUT, and then reattaching it to MAt). And I didn’t see EF try to help out Turkey via seismics in exchange for his ongoing seismics.
Still, in the end, I believe the human and strategic elements of the game far outweighed the cute rules modifications. It’s certainly hard to ferret out the effects of the one from the other. And those elements were? In my opinion:
(1) The Austrian stab of Italy. I found it interesting that Mike was unabashed about his stab of Greg, because (along with #2), I think this is where he lost the game (though to be fair, it could also have produced a win… one must gamble if one wants victory). Without the stab, outnumbered in troops and seismics, EF loses. Games often boil down to major gambles like this. I’m sure both Mike and Greg are sorry that this had to be the gamble.
(2) Miscommunications and Steve. Specifically, there was the German misorder in S1905 that eliminated the Kaiser from the game. It’s all the difference between HOL and HEL. But as the order clearly said HEL, there was nothing I could do. Also, there was the Abbott and Costello routine whereby Steve attacked Denmark and Mike supported him to hold. It cost them Berlin and arguably the game. Steve might have fared very well in this game but for these two costly blunders, but we’ll never know.
(3) No navies. There were a few decisions in this game that confused me. For instance, on the last seismic, why didn’t Matt order “Gre/Tri split; Ser/Ion joinâ€? It would have carved Gre/Bul/Con off from the rest of Austria’s territory and made easy, easy pickings. The position around GoL was secure enough to allow for it. For that matter, somewhere along the line, I thought Mike should connect Tus/Spa, close the strait, and (at least termporarily) lock those French fleets in Tys/GoL. Russia’s S1906 Seismic also baffled me. I know Steve was trying to protect against “StP/Nwy split; Swe/Bar join†(which would’ve created a strait that funneled English fleets into Barents). The better move was “StP/Swe split; Fin/Nwy joinâ€, which provides Russian counterpressure on Norway and forces England to re-open the road to Barents before making progress.
But I digress. My point was going to be about the games second biggest strategic decision (next to Mike’s stab of Greg). I’m talking about Steve’s decision in W1906 to build an army in Moscow instead of a fleet. Trout had just connected Moscow to GoB (which I thought was also a mistake), and Steve now had the chance to build a fleet in Moscow to help counteract that pesky English fleet locked in GoB/Bal. For the next two game years, that English fleet would operate alone in those chilly waters unhampered by Russia and unaided by other English fleets. Worse, after W1906 and for the rest of the game, Russia got absolutely pounded by England’s fleets. Difference maker? Yeah. Navies: they’re a good thing.
Matt’s EoG leads me to ponder more openly: does Seismic Dip augment the influence of fleets? Armies can never float on water, but fleets can always go to land – provided that the land has a coast. But with so many borders, I suspect it is easier to connect land to water than to keep it high and dry and coast-less. In Standard Dip, fleets are restricted by the existing coastline and various bottlenecks, but Seismic Dip unbinds the fleets. Regardless of whether fleets are more powerful in the variant, the EF fleet strategy was a master stroke in this game.
(4) Guile. As is common in Dip, one ‘weak’ player creates a dynamic. Guile’s opening year featured unconventional moves and unproductive seismics resulting in no builds. He became a target (much like me in my first ever game of Diplomacy when I let Italy convince me that Greece was an Italian center in 1901 and not Austrian… I died quickly). When a player operates like this, neighbors are left with two courses of action. The more common is what Trout and Matt did – gobble up the centers for oenself. The less common is what Steve did in modified form, and it is a course I prefer to advocate (even if I don’t always do it): take the newbie under your wing. First of all, it tends to lead to strong alliances with good future prospects for stabbing (because they don’t know not to trust me, in spite of that long rusty blood-encrusted dagger in my hand); I have a near-solo and a shared board top to show for this strategy. Second, at least as importantly, it gives the new player a positive experience of the game and teaches them a hell of a lot about how to play the game. And we do want people to come back. So, there’s a little moralizing for you… though it’s easy to argue that Matt and Trout won this game because they abused the German position, and it’s certainly hard to argue with success.
Okay. On to a couple closing thoughts. There were some brilliant seismics. No doubt Trout’s use of Rule 8 to switch his fleet from the Skagerrak coast of Sweden to the Baltic coast was a total and devastating triumph. A++. I also liked Greg’s decision (while in NAf) to connect NAf to Portugal, thus delaying the inevitable French ouster. I didn’t see that one coming. There were many other good moves, but those are the ones that come to mind.
I am not ready to give up on isthmus rules yet, but they appeared to confuse. Most often, they were simply overlooked, and straits were created when they were not intended (or vice versa). I will have to work harder on educating players about isthmus options in the next game, because I think the game is better with them than without.
I look forward to GMing all of you again in another game of seismic. I really enjoyed this one.
Adam[Reply] |
DC 211: GM EoG (dc211) former.trout Jun 16, 09:09 pm |
Just to be fair to everyone - the brilliant use of Rule 8 was at Matt's suggestion. I had vaguely considered it - but it was at Matt's urging that it was put into action. I can't really take credit for it - I'm not that smart. =)
Apologies for not getting an EOG out. Time and tides, as they say...
Thanks for the game, all.
Trout
On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 10:34 AM, Adam Martin-Schwarze <smegdwarf(at)yahoo.com ([email]smegdwarf(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
Well, I think we’ve gotten just about all the scattered player EoGs that are going to roll in, especially with Lytton and Trout moving into new phases with life (or at least with DC). So, now it’s the GM's turn to share reflections.
I said this in my end of game announcement, but it bears repeating: the seven of you made this game easy to GM. There were a few scattered NMRs, it is true; however, for the most part, I could rely on having all orders in my inbox on time. Thank you for you dedication and your high level of play.
This game has led me to a hypothesis, and I can argue both sides.
H0: while amusing and distracting, seismic rules don’t really change the game.
The logic is Nathan Bedford Forrest’s: “I got there firstest with the mostest men.” It seems to me that Diplomacy follows the same principle, and in DC 211, the wisdom still applied. Once they established their alliance, EF always pointed eastward with concentrated force, while the AR alliance – which at one point outnumbered the EF – had scattered eastern remnants that did not arrive at the front until too late. Occasionally, I would squint at the board and say, “if I transfer the pieces onto a standard board, is this position really any different?” Generally, the answer was: not too much.
A couple of you stated or inferred that Turkey was able to slow his demise with his seismics (1906? Really?). I have myself mused whether the existence of seismic rules sped or slowed the erosion of AR territory. It’s hard to tell. While I suspect there was no great change, I would guess things were slower (though, to be fair, the game would likely have ended in a draw without the Seismics, and you cannot get much slower than that).
There were no rogue units behind enemy lines in this game (though that French fleet in Ionian likely was about to become one). And inversely, there was some ferocious amassing of force both in Berlin and Rome. Failed 5:5 attacks! Predictable for the variant, I suppose, but it always staggered my imagination. So, in this one-game sample size, the seismic rules appear to have favored a plodding and methodical crushing advance. But maybe that was just Matt’s style of play permeating the board… or the even balance of alliances. (Then again, maybe players divided evenly in fear of being on the wrong side of a seismics power imbalance).
On the other side of the argument, I think it is clear that the seismic rules potently influenced the game. In a standard game, this game would have, should have, and most certainly in some parallel universe did end with a four-way draw astraddle the StP-Tunis stalemate line. But shifting borders meant that the position could not actually stalemate.
Plus, I did observe some nice streamlining strategies using seismics. In Fall 1901, a lot of alliances used seismics to create safe zones (splitting Brest from the Channel; Belgium from the North Sea; and Trieste from the Adriatic). Also, for awhile, Mike and Steve tried to coordinate seismics one front at a time in order to provide a push. I was surprised not to see more of that. (Steve’s hope to encircle an AR sanctuary had less success).
I never did see anybody submit a mischief seismic (for example, what if Russia had tried “Iri/NAt split; MAt/Lvp join”? Surely that could have created trouble between EF? I’m thinking to make seismics anonymous in my next game in order to promote more mischief). Nobody tried to isolate a territory and reconnect it (for example, landing a fleet in Syria, isolating it in OUT, and then reattaching it to MAt). And I didn’t see EF try to help out Turkey via seismics in exchange for his ongoing seismics.
Still, in the end, I believe the human and strategic elements of the game far outweighed the cute rules modifications. It’s certainly hard to ferret out the effects of the one from the other. And those elements were? In my opinion:
(1) The Austrian stab of Italy. I found it interesting that Mike was unabashed about his stab of Greg, because (along with #2), I think this is where he lost the game (though to be fair, it could also have produced a win… one must gamble if one wants victory). Without the stab, outnumbered in troops and seismics, EF loses. Games often boil down to major gambles like this. I’m sure both Mike and Greg are sorry that this had to be the gamble.
(2) Miscommunications and Steve. Specifically, there was the German misorder in S1905 that eliminated the Kaiser from the game. It’s all the difference between HOL and HEL. But as the order clearly said HEL, there was nothing I could do. Also, there was the Abbott and Costello routine whereby Steve attacked Denmark and Mike supported him to hold. It cost them Berlin and arguably the game. Steve might have fared very well in this game but for these two costly blunders, but we’ll never know.
(3) No navies. There were a few decisions in this game that confused me. For instance, on the last seismic, why didn’t Matt order “Gre/Tri split; Ser/Ion join”? It would have carved Gre/Bul/Con off from the rest of Austria’s territory and made easy, easy pickings. The position around GoL was secure enough to allow for it. For that matter, somewhere along the line, I thought Mike should connect Tus/Spa, close the strait, and (at least termporarily) lock those French fleets in Tys/GoL. Russia’s S1906 Seismic also baffled me. I know Steve was trying to protect against “StP/Nwy split; Swe/Bar join” (which would’ve created a strait that funneled English fleets into Barents). The better move was “StP/Swe split; Fin/Nwy join”, which provides Russian counterpressure on Norway and forces England to re-open the road to Barents before making progress.
But I digress. My point was going to be about the games second biggest strategic decision (next to Mike’s stab of Greg). I’m talking about Steve’s decision in W1906 to build an army in Moscow instead of a fleet. Trout had just connected Moscow to GoB (which I thought was also a mistake), and Steve now had the chance to build a fleet in Moscow to help counteract that pesky English fleet locked in GoB/Bal. For the next two game years, that English fleet would operate alone in those chilly waters unhampered by Russia and unaided by other English fleets. Worse, after W1906 and for the rest of the game, Russia got absolutely pounded by England’s fleets. Difference maker? Yeah. Navies: they’re a good thing.
Matt’s EoG leads me to ponder more openly: does Seismic Dip augment the influence of fleets? Armies can never float on water, but fleets can always go to land – provided that the land has a coast. But with so many borders, I suspect it is easier to connect land to water than to keep it high and dry and coast-less. In Standard Dip, fleets are restricted by the existing coastline and various bottlenecks, but Seismic Dip unbinds the fleets. Regardless of whether fleets are more powerful in the variant, the EF fleet strategy was a master stroke in this game.
(4) Guile. As is common in Dip, one ‘weak’ player creates a dynamic. Guile’s opening year featured unconventional moves and unproductive seismics resulting in no builds. He became a target (much like me in my first ever game of Diplomacy when I let Italy convince me that Greece was an Italian center in 1901 and not Austrian… I died quickly). When a player operates like this, neighbors are left with two courses of action. The more common is what Trout and Matt did – gobble up the centers for oenself. The less common is what Steve did in modified form, and it is a course I prefer to advocate (even if I don’t always do it): take the newbie under your wing. First of all, it tends to lead to strong alliances with good future prospects for stabbing (because they don’t know not to trust me, in spite of that long rusty blood-encrusted dagger in my hand); I have a near-solo and a shared board top to show for this strategy. Second, at least as importantly, it gives the new player a positive experience of the game and teaches them a hell of a lot about how to play the game. And we do want people to come back. So, there’s a little moralizing for you… though it’s easy to argue that Matt and Trout won this game because they abused the German position, and it’s certainly hard to argue with success.
Okay. On to a couple closing thoughts. There were some brilliant seismics. No doubt Trout’s use of Rule 8 to switch his fleet from the Skagerrak coast of Sweden to the Baltic coast was a total and devastating triumph. A++. I also liked Greg’s decision (while in NAf) to connect NAf to Portugal, thus delaying the inevitable French ouster. I didn’t see that one coming. There were many other good moves, but those are the ones that come to mind.
I am not ready to give up on isthmus rules yet, but they appeared to confuse. Most often, they were simply overlooked, and straits were created when they were not intended (or vice versa). I will have to work harder on educating players about isthmus options in the next game, because I think the game is better with them than without.
I look forward to GMing all of you again in another game of seismic. I really enjoyed this one.
Adam
|
dc245 Summer '12 Results - notasb (Jun 16, 2009, 8:00 am) |
Map:
http://www.geocities.com/dawench2/24512Summer.gif
Deadline:
Fall 12 is due Thursday June 18th 8 AM CDST (GMT -5) 1300 GMT
Retreat:
Italy:
F Spain(sc) - Gulf of Lyon
---------
A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.
Gen. George S Patton[Reply] |
Invitation to A&E 090205 players - dipping_chris at yahoo... (Jun 16, 2009, 7:09 am) |
Good morning folks,
With Nick's A&E 090205 game now complete, I have an invitiation for all of you who enjoyed that variant. Another variant created by Baron Powell, called 1900, has an opening for a replacement Russian player. It's a very viable position, with the game still in its early stages. THOSE INTEREST IN FILLING THE POSITION SHOULD REPLY WITH A SET OF PROVISIONAL OR PRELIMINARY RUSSIAN ORDERS FOR FALL 1903. First come, first served. The current Russian position of the Russian units going into Fall 1903 is...
Supply Centers Owned (6): StP, Sev, War, Swe, Ber, Den
Units (7): F Hel, A Arm, A Sil, A Ber, F GoB, A Sev, A Ukr.
I can send current maps, house rules, game history, etc, to interested parties. Basic info on 1900 available at <http://www.diplom.org/Online/variants/1900.html>; <http://www.diplom.org/Online/variants/1900-061119.pdf>; and <http://www.diplom.org/Online/maps/1900.gif>
Chris[Reply] |
DC 225: Fall 1907 Adjudication - mistro (Jun 16, 2009, 12:51 am) |
can you resend the map? The image is corrupted. TIA Michael
On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 7:26 PM, Alan Farrington <alley_cat_1990(at)hotmail.com ([email]alley_cat_1990(at)hotmail.com[/email])> wrote:
Last set finally stumbled in.
Headlines:
Could the end be in sight? Austria and Germany trade centers with Austria losing a center on the trade. England picks up yet another center, but at this point will it even matter? Last but not least Turkey seems to finally get the ball moving as they almost double the size of the Ottoman empire this turn. Two Retreats Needed.
Italian F Spain(sc) can retreat to Gulf of Lyon.
Austrian A Vienna can retreat to Galicia.
Next Deadline:
Autumn Orders are due Wednesday June 17th at Midnight GMT, (7:00pm EST)
Orders:
Austria:
F Adriatic Sea Supports A Vienna - Trieste
A Moscow Hold
A Rumania Hold
A Vienna - Trieste (*Dislodged*)
A Warsaw Hold
England:
F Baltic Sea Supports A Denmark - Kiel
A Denmark - Kiel
F English Channel - Belgium (*Bounce*)
A Gascony - Marseilles (*Bounce*)
F Gulf of Bothnia - St Petersburg(sc) (*Fails*)
F Irish Sea - English Channel (*Fails*)
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean Supports F Portugal - Spain(sc)
F North Sea - Holland (*Fails*)
F Portugal - Spain(sc)
A St Petersburg - Moscow (*Fails*)
Germany:
A Bohemia Supports A Tyrolia - Vienna
A Brest - Paris
A Galicia - Budapest
F Holland Supports A Picardy - Belgium (*Cut*)
A Kiel - Berlin
A Picardy - Belgium (*Bounce*)
A Tyrolia - Vienna
Italy:
F Greece - Ionian Sea
F Ionian Sea - Tunis
F Spain(sc) - Marseilles (*Dislodged*)
A Trieste Supports A Galicia - Budapest (*Cut*)
A Venice Supports A Trieste
F Western Mediterranean - Spain(sc) (*Fails*)
Turkey:
F Ankara - Black Sea
A Bulgaria - Serbia
A Smyrna - Ankara
Players:
Austria: Santiago Villamayor (svillamayor(at)mail.cl ([email]svillamayor(at)mail.cl[/email]))
England: Mark Utterback (MDemagogue(at)gmail.com ([email]MDemagogue(at)gmail.com[/email]))
France: Anthony Stevens (aandtstevens(at)gmail.com ([email]aandtstevens(at)gmail.com[/email])) [Eliminated]
Germany: Jyri Syrja (jyjusy(at)hotmail.com ([email]jyjusy(at)hotmail.com[/email]))
Italy: Michael Stroz (mistro914(at)gmail.com ([email]mistro914(at)gmail.com[/email]))
Russia: Rachael Jameson (verticallychallangedcutie(at)yahoo.com ([email]verticallychallangedcutie(at)yahoo.com[/email])) [Eliminated]
Turkey: Michael Holm (Zipholm(at)hotmail.com ([email]Zipholm(at)hotmail.com[/email]))
If anyone spots a mistake with their orders let me know,
Thank you,
Alan Farrington
Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync. Check it out.
[Reply] |
DC212 - Fall 1912 - Late Orders - former.trout (Jun 16, 2009, 12:46 am) |
Heya gang,
My regrets but once again we have a late order set for the current turn. Adjudication for Fall 1912 will be delayed until tomorrow night while I attempt to gather in the stray orders. The player in question has been notified in a separate email.
Please note, however, that the player will be given an NMR for stats purposes, even though I am collecting their orders. This is due to recent site policy change and is because of the fact that the orders are truly NOT received at deadline time. Again, if anyone has an issue with this then please just let me know.
Cheers all. Thanks for the patience.
Trout[Reply] |
DC230 Lost Kings - Winter 06 Order Clarification - former.trout (Jun 16, 2009, 12:41 am) |
Heya folks,
I have all order sets in hand for Winter 1906, but unfortunately I have one that makes absolutely no sense at all. I've written requesting clarification from the player in question. One thing I've learnt over the years, the hard way, is that a little time inconvenience is often worth it in order to be fairer to the players involved.
The Winter turn will be out tomorrow, with or without the order clarification. Thanks for your patience.
Trout
On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 8:42 PM, Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
All,
Deadline for Winter 1906 adjustments is in just over 21 hours. Flap your wings, click your heels together three times, and do whatever you gotta do... Just send those puppies on in here with your orders. =)
Cheers!
Trout
[Reply] |
DC-250 - Late Order Delay - former.trout (Jun 16, 2009, 12:38 am) |
Heya folks,
I'm sorry but we have one set of late orders for the Fall 04 turn. The player in question has been notified and I will hold things until tomorrow in hopes of gathering the late moves.
Please note that while I am including the orders in the adjudication, the player will be assigned an NMR for stats purposes. This is to fit with recent site policy change - and makes sense seeing as how the orders are, actually, not received at deadline time.
Thanks for your patience all. Cheers!
Trout[Reply] |
DC-250 - Late Order Delay (dc250) Colonel_Mustard Jun 16, 06:14 pm |
It wasn't me.
-- Dan (Eng).
From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com>
To: dc250(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Cc: Christian MacDonald <mouldingandmillwork(at)yahoo.com>; Dan Huck <aefgirt7(at)yahoo.com>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com>; John Curran <thomasdaddy(at)msn.com>; manolis tagarakis <etagarakis(at)hotmail.com>; Shawn Buis <thanksliving(at)hotmail.com>; Thor Egil Braadland <thoregil.braadland(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 1:38:20 AM
Subject: DC-250 - Late Order Delay
Heya folks,
I'm sorry but we have one set of late orders for the Fall 04 turn. The player in question has been notified and I will hold things until tomorrow in hopes of gathering the late moves.
Please note that while I am including the orders in the adjudication, the player will be assigned an NMR for stats purposes. This is to fit with recent site policy change - and makes sense seeing as how the orders are, actually, not received at deadline time.
Thanks for your patience all. Cheers!
Trout |