| DC 285: Game on!! - blueraider0 at gmail.com (Mar 20, 2010, 2:32 pm) |
Gentlemen,
And we're back! I hope your first day of spring has bee wonderful, and we're now officially back! The 297 BC Fall deadline is now 6 PM on 3/27
Take care!
-Maslow
--
"It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger they were. and sometimes you didn't want to know the end because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it's only a passing thing. The shadow, even the darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer. Those were the stories that stayed with you - That meant something. Even if you were too small to understand why. But I think, Mr. Frodo, I do understand. I know now. Folk in those stories had lots of chances of turning back only they didn't. They kept going because they were holding onto something."
"What are we holding onto, Sam?"
"That there's some good in this world, Mr. Frodo. And it's worth fighting for."[Reply] |
| DC 285: 10 day festivities! - blueraider0 at gmail.com (Mar 09, 2010, 8:20 pm) |
Folks,
So Mike is now on vacation, so we'll be off for the next 10 days. Sorry for that insane waiting amount. I'll let "ya'll" know when we're back and we'll have a full week deadline all over again.
Hail Caesar/God-King/Pharoah/Citizen/Whatever Carthage called its leader,
-Maslow
--
"It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger they were. and sometimes you didn't want to know the end because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it's only a passing thing. The shadow, even the darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer. Those were the stories that stayed with you - That meant something. Even if you were too small to understand why. But I think, Mr. Frodo, I do understand. I know now. Folk in those stories had lots of chances of turning back only they didn't. They kept going because they were holding onto something."
"What are we holding onto, Sam?"
"That there's some good in this world, Mr. Frodo. And it's worth fighting for."[Reply] |
| DC 285: Error announcement: Map update - blueraider0 at gmail.com (Mar 06, 2010, 6:06 am) |
Oops! Well it happened folks, there was an error that was wholly my fault. No public argument, no GM hammer coming down, just an apology and a vigorous finger shaken at my mouse. It sometimes makes leaps and jumps that are unintended, and this time sent Vindobona to Adriatic, which is both illogical and impossible. Vindobona went to Dalmatia, which prevents Illyria from going there, which prevents Dacia from going to Illyria. So here's the new map. Thanks, Mark, for keeping me in check!
-Maslow
--
"It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger they were. and sometimes you didn't want to know the end because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it's only a passing thing. The shadow, even the darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer. Those were the stories that stayed with you - That meant something. Even if you were too small to understand why. But I think, Mr. Frodo, I do understand. I know now. Folk in those stories had lots of chances of turning back only they didn't. They kept going because they were holding onto something."
"What are we holding onto, Sam?"
"That there's some good in this world, Mr. Frodo. And it's worth fighting for."[Reply] |
| DC 285: Spring 297 results - offdisc (Mar 06, 2010, 12:22 am) |
What the heck kind of drugs was I taking with those moves????
Oh, and I'm the "friend" leaving for vacation. What a way to go, huh?
Have fun plotting my demise while I'm gone! 
Mike
---------
"Shared Pain is lessened, Shared Joy is increased" --- Spider Robinson
"Whenever some act of wondrous power must be performed, Michael is
sent" --- Pope Saint Gregory the Great
On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 9:09 PM, Alex Maslow <blueraider0(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Exciting moves, everyone seems to outguess everyone, few moves succeed, but
those that do have potential to greatly disrupt the game. Things get
exciting and......... we're off for a week. But we actually have 5 days
before our 'friend' leaves, so if I get all the orders by 3/9 at 8 PM I'll
adjud the fall and we'll hold off the builds until the 20th. And if I don't
get all the moves, then I'll just set the deadline for after the 20th. So
no pressure. If you can get them in, we'll move faster - if we can't, we'll
just wait a week. But with no retreats, it seems silly to me to waste these
5 days when we might be productive. In any event, the moves and map.
Correct me on errors.
Rome:
A Etruria - Massilia (*Bounce*)
F Punic Sea - Sardinia
A Roma - Neapolis (*Bounce*)
F Sicilia - Tyrrhenean Sea
A Vindobona - Adriatic Sea (*Fails*)
Carthage:
F Ausonian Sea - Neapolis (*Bounce*)
F Baleares - Ligurian Sea
F Berber Sea - Carthage (*Fails*)
A Carthage - Cirta (*Fails*)
A Tarraconensis - Massilia (*Bounce*)
A Thapsus Supports A Carthage - Cirta
Persia:
A Antioch - Cappadocia
A Armenia Supports A Sinope
F Byzantium - Black Sea (*Fails*)
F Cilician Strait - Minoan Sea
A Dacia - Illyria
A Galatia - Byzantium (*Fails*)
F Miletus Supports A Galatia - Byzantium (*Fails*)
A Sinope Supports A Armenia (*Cut*)
A Tyre - Jerusalem (*Fails*)
Greece:
F Black Sea - Sinope (*Fails*)
A Illyria - Dalmatia
A Macedonia - Athens
F Sparta - Aegean Sea (*Fails*)
Egypt:
F Aegean Sea - Sparta (*Fails*)
F Alexandria - Libyan Sea
A Cirta Supports A Sahara - Mauretania (*Cut*)
F Egyptian Sea Supports F Alexandria - Libyan Sea
F Gulf of Tacape Supports F Libyan Sea - Messenian Sea
A Jerusalem Hold
F Libyan Sea - Messenian Sea
A Memphis - Cyrene
A Numidia Supports A Cirta
A Sahara - Mauretania
Take care! [Reply] |
| DC 285: Spring 297 results - blueraider0 at gmail.com (Mar 05, 2010, 10:09 pm) |
Exciting moves, everyone seems to outguess everyone, few moves succeed, but those that do have potential to greatly disrupt the game. Things get exciting and......... we're off for a week. But we actually have 5 days before our 'friend' leaves, so if I get all the orders by 3/9 at 8 PM I'll adjud the fall and we'll hold off the builds until the 20th. And if I don't get all the moves, then I'll just set the deadline for after the 20th. So no pressure. If you can get them in, we'll move faster - if we can't, we'll just wait a week. But with no retreats, it seems silly to me to waste these 5 days when we might be productive. In any event, the moves and map. Correct me on errors.
Rome:
A Etruria - Massilia (*Bounce*)
F Punic Sea - Sardinia
A Roma - Neapolis (*Bounce*)
F Sicilia - Tyrrhenean Sea
A Vindobona - Adriatic Sea (*Fails*)
Carthage:
F Ausonian Sea - Neapolis (*Bounce*)
F Baleares - Ligurian Sea
F Berber Sea - Carthage (*Fails*)
A Carthage - Cirta (*Fails*)
A Tarraconensis - Massilia (*Bounce*)
A Thapsus Supports A Carthage - Cirta
Persia:
A Antioch - Cappadocia
A Armenia Supports A Sinope
F Byzantium - Black Sea (*Fails*)
F Cilician Strait - Minoan Sea
A Dacia - Illyria
A Galatia - Byzantium (*Fails*)
F Miletus Supports A Galatia - Byzantium (*Fails*)
A Sinope Supports A Armenia (*Cut*)
A Tyre - Jerusalem (*Fails*)
Greece:
F Black Sea - Sinope (*Fails*)
A Illyria - Dalmatia
A Macedonia - Athens
F Sparta - Aegean Sea (*Fails*)
Egypt:
F Aegean Sea - Sparta (*Fails*)
F Alexandria - Libyan Sea
A Cirta Supports A Sahara - Mauretania (*Cut*)
F Egyptian Sea Supports F Alexandria - Libyan Sea
F Gulf of Tacape Supports F Libyan Sea - Messenian Sea
A Jerusalem Hold
F Libyan Sea - Messenian Sea
A Memphis - Cyrene
A Numidia Supports A Cirta
A Sahara - Mauretania
Take care![Reply] |
| DC 285: Spring 297 results (dc285) offdisc Mar 06, 12:22 am |
What the heck kind of drugs was I taking with those moves????
Oh, and I'm the "friend" leaving for vacation. What a way to go, huh?
Have fun plotting my demise while I'm gone!
Mike
---------
"Shared Pain is lessened, Shared Joy is increased" --- Spider Robinson
"Whenever some act of wondrous power must be performed, Michael is
sent" --- Pope Saint Gregory the Great
On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 9:09 PM, Alex Maslow <blueraider0(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Exciting moves, everyone seems to outguess everyone, few moves succeed, but
those that do have potential to greatly disrupt the game. Things get
exciting and......... we're off for a week. But we actually have 5 days
before our 'friend' leaves, so if I get all the orders by 3/9 at 8 PM I'll
adjud the fall and we'll hold off the builds until the 20th. And if I don't
get all the moves, then I'll just set the deadline for after the 20th. So
no pressure. If you can get them in, we'll move faster - if we can't, we'll
just wait a week. But with no retreats, it seems silly to me to waste these
5 days when we might be productive. In any event, the moves and map.
Correct me on errors.
Rome:
A Etruria - Massilia (*Bounce*)
F Punic Sea - Sardinia
A Roma - Neapolis (*Bounce*)
F Sicilia - Tyrrhenean Sea
A Vindobona - Adriatic Sea (*Fails*)
Carthage:
F Ausonian Sea - Neapolis (*Bounce*)
F Baleares - Ligurian Sea
F Berber Sea - Carthage (*Fails*)
A Carthage - Cirta (*Fails*)
A Tarraconensis - Massilia (*Bounce*)
A Thapsus Supports A Carthage - Cirta
Persia:
A Antioch - Cappadocia
A Armenia Supports A Sinope
F Byzantium - Black Sea (*Fails*)
F Cilician Strait - Minoan Sea
A Dacia - Illyria
A Galatia - Byzantium (*Fails*)
F Miletus Supports A Galatia - Byzantium (*Fails*)
A Sinope Supports A Armenia (*Cut*)
A Tyre - Jerusalem (*Fails*)
Greece:
F Black Sea - Sinope (*Fails*)
A Illyria - Dalmatia
A Macedonia - Athens
F Sparta - Aegean Sea (*Fails*)
Egypt:
F Aegean Sea - Sparta (*Fails*)
F Alexandria - Libyan Sea
A Cirta Supports A Sahara - Mauretania (*Cut*)
F Egyptian Sea Supports F Alexandria - Libyan Sea
F Gulf of Tacape Supports F Libyan Sea - Messenian Sea
A Jerusalem Hold
F Libyan Sea - Messenian Sea
A Memphis - Cyrene
A Numidia Supports A Cirta
A Sahara - Mauretania
Take care! |
| DC 285: Spring 297 deadline passed - blueraider0 at gmail.com (Mar 05, 2010, 4:21 pm) |
Folks,
The deadline has passed, but there are technical difficulties where an order set has simply been removed from my e-mail. So I've asked that individual to e-mail me the orders plus my reciept of them. But all other orders are locked and in and I'll send out the adjud as soon as I have the 5th set.
-Maslow
--
"It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger they were. and sometimes you didn't want to know the end because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it's only a passing thing. The shadow, even the darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer. Those were the stories that stayed with you - That meant something. Even if you were too small to understand why. But I think, Mr. Frodo, I do understand. I know now. Folk in those stories had lots of chances of turning back only they didn't. They kept going because they were holding onto something."
"What are we holding onto, Sam?"
"That there's some good in this world, Mr. Frodo. And it's worth fighting for."[Reply] |
| DC 285: Deadline Alert - blueraider0 at gmail.com (Mar 04, 2010, 9:29 pm) |
Hey folks,
Deadline's tomorrow at 5 PM. I'm missing 3 order sets. I'm sending individual nagging e-mails within 20 min. Also, due to my own schedule and a player request, we'll be taking next week off. If there are any retreats, I'll see if we can get them done quickly, but we'll be off from the 10th till the 20th. And what that means is our deadline will basically be 2 weeks instead of 1 week. Everyone still here is welcome to diplome for the whole time, but keep in mind one rival/ally/enemy will be gone for pretty much a week and a half. The fall deadline will be on March 23rd.
-Maslow
--
"It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger they were. and sometimes you didn't want to know the end because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it's only a passing thing. The shadow, even the darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer. Those were the stories that stayed with you - That meant something. Even if you were too small to understand why. But I think, Mr. Frodo, I do understand. I know now. Folk in those stories had lots of chances of turning back only they didn't. They kept going because they were holding onto something."
"What are we holding onto, Sam?"
"That there's some good in this world, Mr. Frodo. And it's worth fighting for."[Reply] |
| DC 285: Winter 298 map - blueraider0 at gmail.com (Feb 27, 2010, 10:25 pm) |
Map is attached now. Deadline still March 5th at 5 PM EST. Check map for errors.
Upcoming season is SPRING of 297.
-Maslow
--
"It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger they were. and sometimes you didn't want to know the end because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it's only a passing thing. The shadow, even the darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer. Those were the stories that stayed with you - That meant something. Even if you were too small to understand why. But I think, Mr. Frodo, I do understand. I know now. Folk in those stories had lots of chances of turning back only they didn't. They kept going because they were holding onto something."
"What are we holding onto, Sam?"
"That there's some good in this world, Mr. Frodo. And it's worth fighting for."[Reply] |
| DC 285: Slight delay - blueraider0 at gmail.com (Feb 27, 2010, 12:44 pm) |
Hey folks! Sorry for the delay - a tree came down in my yard Thursday evening, and it missed hitting my house only because it got caught by some power lines. And the tree knocked down a street light as well. And the fire department came yesterday, put up caution tape, and left. So I've been a bit busy with that. But hopefully tonight I'll have time to adjud. In fact!
Persia:
Build Army in Antioch
Egypt:
Build Fleet in Alexandria
Build Army in Memphis
Carthage:
Remove Army in Massilia
There. I'll send a map out tonight given that I'm at work right now.
Deadline for Spring 297 is March 5th at 5 PM EST.
Take care!
-Maslow
--
"It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger they were. and sometimes you didn't want to know the end because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it's only a passing thing. The shadow, even the darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer. Those were the stories that stayed with you - That meant something. Even if you were too small to understand why. But I think, Mr. Frodo, I do understand. I know now. Folk in those stories had lots of chances of turning back only they didn't. They kept going because they were holding onto something."
"What are we holding onto, Sam?"
"That there's some good in this world, Mr. Frodo. And it's worth fighting for."[Reply] |
| DC 285: Retreat is in! - blueraider0 at gmail.com (Feb 24, 2010, 12:05 am) |
The Greek unit retreats OTB. Builds/disbands due Thursday at 5 PM, will adjud early if all orders submitted with "final" in subject. I'm not sending out a new map because it looks basically the same as the old one.
Carthage must disband 1
Persia may build one
Egypt may build two
Take care!
-Maslow
--
"It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger they were. and sometimes you didn't want to know the end because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it's only a passing thing. The shadow, even the darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer. Those were the stories that stayed with you - That meant something. Even if you were too small to understand why. But I think, Mr. Frodo, I do understand. I know now. Folk in those stories had lots of chances of turning back only they didn't. They kept going because they were holding onto something."
"What are we holding onto, Sam?"
"That there's some good in this world, Mr. Frodo. And it's worth fighting for."[Reply] |
| DC 285: Fall 298 Results - sgttodd (Feb 22, 2010, 2:50 pm) |
I use RealWorld/Realpolitik as my clerical staff. I also use it when submitting orders to avoid this sort of thing. Looking at the map image alone, the space in question is easily misread and subsequently misspelled. I'm sure others are too, but I've had a run in with this issue already.
Since no official abbreviation list was made available and we're left with the map alone to determine space names, I think some leeway in their spellings should be allowed, not for fat-fingering the keyboard, but for not being able to read the Latinish names on the map.
Besides how do you know his spell-checker did up and "fix it" without his realizing it when he send?
So, for future reference, here are the names and abbreviations right out of the RP file:
Adriatic Sea, adr
Aegean Sea, aeg
Alexandria, ale
Antioch, ant
Apulia, apu
Arabia, ara
Armenia, arm
Athens, ath
Ausonian Sea, aus
Baleares, bal
Bayuda, bay
Berber Sea, ber
Bithynia, bit
Black Sea, bla
Byzantium, byz
Cappadocia, cap
Carthage, car
Chersonesus, che
Cilician Strait, cil
Cirta, cir
Corsica, cor
Crete, cre
Cyprus, cyp
Cyrene, cyr
Dacia, dac
Dalmatia, dal
Damascus, dam
Egyptian Sea, egy
Epirus, epi
Etruria, etr
Galatia, gal
Gaul, gau
Gulf of Pelusium, gop
Gulf of Syrtis, gos
Gulf of Tacape, got
Iberian Sea, ibe
Illyria, ill
Ionian Sea, ion
Isauria, isa
Jerusalem, jer
Leptis, lep
Libyan Sea, lib
Ligurian Sea, lig
Lusitania, lus
Macedonia, mac
Marmarica, mar
Massilia, mas
Mauretania, mau
Memphis, mem
Messenian Sea, mes
Miletus, mil
Minoan Sea, min
Nabatea, nab
Neapolis, nea
Numidia, num
Petra, pet
Phazania, pha
Punic Sea, pun
Ravenna, rav
Reed Sea, ree
Rhaetia, rha
Roma, rom
Saguntum, sag
Sahara, sah
Sardinia, sad
Sarmatia, sam
Sicilia, sic
Sidon, sid
Sinai, sii
Sinope, sip
Sparta, spa
Syrian Sea, syr
Tarraconensis, tar
Thapsus, tha
Thebes, the
Tyre, tye
Tyrrhenean Sea, tyn
Venetia, ven
Vindobona, vin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jerry Todd
Carthage
_______________________________________________________
Sent through e-mol. E-mail, Anywhere, Anytime. http://www.e-mol.com[Reply] |
| DC 285: Fall 298 Results - blueraider0 at gmail.com (Feb 22, 2010, 2:15 pm) |
Raving Coyotes, ahem - I mean distinguished gentlemen,
Well, I put the "don't bother arguing" because the misorder is particularly important. And having a public argument over the issue was the last thing I wanted, because I'm suspicious that despite all discussion over rules, any vote would ultimately be more on the "does this help me" platform, instead of the rules discussed. Does a trickle up economy create jobs? Maybe, but dammit, I'm at the top and deserve that money! Let me decide where to let it flow! In the future, PLEASE send these sort of e-mails one-to-one.
But since it is public, here was my decision making process.
I just came back from a Dip tournament a few weeks ago where rules were very strict on misorders
I looked at my keyboard and realized that P and E are not close to each other, and so this is not necessarily an erroneous key stroke.
My personal experience is that Dip players are more often than not very careful and a misorder is intentional. This is not to say this misorder was or was not intentional, but often I have seen GMs "correct" misorders, only to be later "recorrected." It causes quite a mess. Better to be too strict and get everyone in line than to be too kind and cause a bigger problem.
Misorders happen in the real world as well as in the game.
Thaesus sounds like a perfectly ancient province and I actually double checked there wasn't some tiny province called Thaesus in that area I hadn't noticed before.
I recently finished a variant map (Versailles) game and always had a blank map (blank of units, not province names) handy to avoid such problems.
In addition:
I don't use RealPolitik's ability to insert orders into the program; I'm honestly not sure how to even do that. I have an overriding paranoia of technology and don't like second level commanding - that is: I like to be as hands on as possible. I point and click every single order.
Pun to Tha would have been an acceptable order. But that was not what was written. And as for the Ven to Rom/Rum issue, if you can't type 3 letters right / be bothered to check your work, then I don't see why I should cut you any slack.
So here's what I'm going to do. The order remains as is. In the future, if there is an order that I notice is invalid, I will note this when I "recieve" your orders, and you'll have the chance to fix the order (or not, if you so wish). If I don't notice or don't recieve an updated order by the time of the deadline, too bad. Let that be more motivation for you to send orders before the deadline starts closing in.
I hope that pleases either all parties, or nobody. Equality for all!
Take care, and still waiting on that Greek retreat!
-Maslow
On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 2:09 PM, Mike Hoffman <mrh(at)panix.com ([email]mrh(at)panix.com[/email])> wrote:
Maslow,
I hate to be a thorn in your side, but I also agree with Adam on the
Pun -> Tha issue. In fact, solely because if the order was written as
such, it would have been accepted!
I think part of the problem (and it's a bit of a gripe on my part) is
that the units on the maps sit on top of the names. So when filling
out orders, I either have to rely on my memory or retrieve an older
map, or find an empty map online. I had to do that this turn when
remember if "Cilician" was "Silician" or "Cilician". I even typed
Sicilian at first, but saw that error immediately and fixed it. "The
reason I typed the entire name was so that if there was a slight typo,
the meaning would be clear."
[Warning: Slight Rant follows]
I understand that if you are using RealPolitic or other software to
assist in adjudicating, correcting typos is extra work. On the other
hand, I believe software should be used as described -- to "assist" in
judging, but not be the end-all be-all. That is the reason *I* choose
to NOT use any software when I GM. Yes, it takes more time, but it
also keeps me more involved and in touch with the game. Of course
that is a personal preference and I don't expect anyone else to follow
it. BUT, I think it may be a better course for most GMs to not rely
entirely on software to rule the game.
[Rant over]
All that being said, whatever your final decision is, we will follow!
Thanks,
Michael
---------
"Shared Pain is lessened, Shared Joy is increased" --- Spider Robinson
"Whenever some act of wondrous power must be performed, Michael is
sent" --- Pope Saint Gregory the Great
On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:18 AM, Adam Martin-Schwarze
<smegdwarf(at)yahoo.com ([email]smegdwarf(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:44c1ac6e9d]Alex,
[quote:44c1ac6e9d]All misorders and NMRs were
already double checked, so don't bother arguing.
This almost sounds like a challenge, doesn't it? I pick up thy gauntlet, oh noble knight. I apologize if the following is an example of using a cannon to kill a rabbit.
F Punic Sea to Thaesus (No such province)
A Massilia, NMR
F Sparta, NMR
F Athens to Messenian Sea (*Fails* No unit in
Athens, provinces not connected anyway)
The House Rules are interesting on these misorders. Clearly, the overriding rule is:
"The GM holds the final say on any in-game dispute."
So, in the end, what you say decides the issue.
I understand the NMR for F Sparta. I do know GMs who would 'correct' the order, but Sparta is clearly not Athens, and the NMR makes sense to me.
But I confess to scratching my head at F Punic to Thaesus. True, there is no Thaesus. But there is a Thapsus, which differs by only one letter from Thaesus. And Thapsus is right next door to Punic Sea (so, it makes contextual sense). Furthermore, there is no other province even remotely similar in name to Thaesus. The *only* (and I use this word full-knowing how categorical it is) logical in-board interpretation of Thaesus is that it should be Thapsus. If you can show me a plausible ambiguity in interpretation, I will withdraw my challenge.
There are two House Rules sort of pertaining to this misorder, but neither takes it head on. First:
"In the case of an ambiguous order, the GM may void the move and have the unit stand."
Admittedly, this rule is located amidst a discussion of province abbreviations, but (a) most every set of House Rules has such a blanket provision, and (b) it makes sense that ambiguity should be treated the same whether a player types out full names or whether they use abbreviations. According to this rule, if a typo causes ambiguity, then the GM may void the order. But, as argued above, 'Thaesus' did not create ambiguity.
The second House Rule is:
"If there is a typo that leads to an incorrect order, it will be read as-is."
I am assuming that this is the House Rule being used in your interpretation. Perhaps the rule requires further explication, because the example used in the House Rules is "Ven to Rum" in the place of "Ven to Rom". So, the context of the rule implies that it applies in instances when the typo significantly change the meaning of the order. It does not necessarily imply that spelling will be grounds for nullification.
And that is why I am confused by the no-such-province adjudication of:
F Punic Sea to Thaesus
Are you really requiring that we submit our orders with perfect spelling?!? (Because that's what this boils down to). I mean to say... Chersonesus is a bugger to spell. Does it really matter whether I type Chersonesus, Chersenesus, Chersonnesus, etc...? The intent is crystal clear. If I want to get really pedantic, I would ask how 'Thaesus' is any less correct than orders I have previously submitted such as 'F Alexandria - Libyan' (there is a Libyan Sea, but not a Libyan).
So, to summarize my point:
When there is no ambiguity in province designation, do you really want spelling to override player intent?
[Yes, I understand that this very possibly could be an 'intentional misorder' on Rome's part, but do you really want to create this precedent in order to enable a misorder?]
Thank you for considering my argument,
Adam
[/quote:44c1ac6e9d]
[/quote:44c1ac6e9d]
--
"It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger they were. and sometimes you didn't want to know the end because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it's only a passing thing. The shadow, even the darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer. Those were the stories that stayed with you - That meant something. Even if you were too small to understand why. But I think, Mr. Frodo, I do understand. I know now. Folk in those stories had lots of chances of turning back only they didn't. They kept going because they were holding onto something."
"What are we holding onto, Sam?"
"That there's some good in this world, Mr. Frodo. And it's worth fighting for."[Reply] |
| DC 285: Fall 298 Results - offdisc (Feb 22, 2010, 1:09 pm) |
Maslow,
I hate to be a thorn in your side, but I also agree with Adam on the
Pun -> Tha issue. In fact, solely because if the order was written as
such, it would have been accepted!
I think part of the problem (and it's a bit of a gripe on my part) is
that the units on the maps sit on top of the names. So when filling
out orders, I either have to rely on my memory or retrieve an older
map, or find an empty map online. I had to do that this turn when
remember if "Cilician" was "Silician" or "Cilician". I even typed
Sicilian at first, but saw that error immediately and fixed it. The
reason I typed the entire name was so that if there was a slight typo,
the meaning would be clear.
[Warning: Slight Rant follows]
I understand that if you are using RealPolitic or other software to
assist in adjudicating, correcting typos is extra work. On the other
hand, I believe software should be used as described -- to "assist" in
judging, but not be the end-all be-all. That is the reason *I* choose
to NOT use any software when I GM. Yes, it takes more time, but it
also keeps me more involved and in touch with the game. Of course
that is a personal preference and I don't expect anyone else to follow
it. BUT, I think it may be a better course for most GMs to not rely
entirely on software to rule the game.
[Rant over]
All that being said, whatever your final decision is, we will follow!
Thanks,
Michael
---------
"Shared Pain is lessened, Shared Joy is increased" --- Spider Robinson
"Whenever some act of wondrous power must be performed, Michael is
sent" --- Pope Saint Gregory the Great
On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:18 AM, Adam Martin-Schwarze
<smegdwarf(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
Alex,
[quote:55c9b84816]All misorders and NMRs were
already double checked, so don't bother arguing.
This almost sounds like a challenge, doesn't it? I pick up thy gauntlet, oh noble knight. I apologize if the following is an example of using a cannon to kill a rabbit.
F Punic Sea to Thaesus (No such province)
A Massilia, NMR
F Sparta, NMR
F Athens to Messenian Sea (*Fails* No unit in
Athens, provinces not connected anyway)
The House Rules are interesting on these misorders. Clearly, the overriding rule is:
"The GM holds the final say on any in-game dispute."
So, in the end, what you say decides the issue.
I understand the NMR for F Sparta. I do know GMs who would 'correct' the order, but Sparta is clearly not Athens, and the NMR makes sense to me.
But I confess to scratching my head at F Punic to Thaesus. True, there is no Thaesus. But there is a Thapsus, which differs by only one letter from Thaesus. And Thapsus is right next door to Punic Sea (so, it makes contextual sense). Furthermore, there is no other province even remotely similar in name to Thaesus. The *only* (and I use this word full-knowing how categorical it is) logical in-board interpretation of Thaesus is that it should be Thapsus. If you can show me a plausible ambiguity in interpretation, I will withdraw my challenge.
There are two House Rules sort of pertaining to this misorder, but neither takes it head on. First:
"In the case of an ambiguous order, the GM may void the move and have the unit stand."
Admittedly, this rule is located amidst a discussion of province abbreviations, but (a) most every set of House Rules has such a blanket provision, and (b) it makes sense that ambiguity should be treated the same whether a player types out full names or whether they use abbreviations. According to this rule, if a typo causes ambiguity, then the GM may void the order. But, as argued above, 'Thaesus' did not create ambiguity.
The second House Rule is:
"If there is a typo that leads to an incorrect order, it will be read as-is."
I am assuming that this is the House Rule being used in your interpretation. Perhaps the rule requires further explication, because the example used in the House Rules is "Ven to Rum" in the place of "Ven to Rom". So, the context of the rule implies that it applies in instances when the typo significantly change the meaning of the order. It does not necessarily imply that spelling will be grounds for nullification.
And that is why I am confused by the no-such-province adjudication of:
F Punic Sea to Thaesus
Are you really requiring that we submit our orders with perfect spelling?!? (Because that's what this boils down to). I mean to say... Chersonesus is a bugger to spell. Does it really matter whether I type Chersonesus, Chersenesus, Chersonnesus, etc...? The intent is crystal clear. If I want to get really pedantic, I would ask how 'Thaesus' is any less correct than orders I have previously submitted such as 'F Alexandria - Libyan' (there is a Libyan Sea, but not a Libyan).
So, to summarize my point:
When there is no ambiguity in province designation, do you really want spelling to override player intent?
[Yes, I understand that this very possibly could be an 'intentional misorder' on Rome's part, but do you really want to create this precedent in order to enable a misorder?]
Thank you for considering my argument,
Adam
[/quote:55c9b84816][Reply] |
| DC 285: Fall 298 Results - AceRimmer (Feb 22, 2010, 12:18 pm) |
Alex,
All misorders and NMRs were
already double checked, so don't bother arguing.
This almost sounds like a challenge, doesn't it? I pick up thy gauntlet, oh noble knight. I apologize if the following is an example of using a cannon to kill a rabbit.
F Punic Sea to Thaesus (No such province)
A Massilia, NMR
F Sparta, NMR
F Athens to Messenian Sea (*Fails* No unit in
Athens, provinces not connected anyway)
The House Rules are interesting on these misorders. Clearly, the overriding rule is:
"The GM holds the final say on any in-game dispute."
So, in the end, what you say decides the issue.
I understand the NMR for F Sparta. I do know GMs who would 'correct' the order, but Sparta is clearly not Athens, and the NMR makes sense to me.
But I confess to scratching my head at F Punic to Thaesus. True, there is no Thaesus. But there is a Thapsus, which differs by only one letter from Thaesus. And Thapsus is right next door to Punic Sea (so, it makes contextual sense). Furthermore, there is no other province even remotely similar in name to Thaesus. The *only* (and I use this word full-knowing how categorical it is) logical in-board interpretation of Thaesus is that it should be Thapsus. If you can show me a plausible ambiguity in interpretation, I will withdraw my challenge.
There are two House Rules sort of pertaining to this misorder, but neither takes it head on. First:
"In the case of an ambiguous order, the GM may void the move and have the unit stand."
Admittedly, this rule is located amidst a discussion of province abbreviations, but (a) most every set of House Rules has such a blanket provision, and (b) it makes sense that ambiguity should be treated the same whether a player types out full names or whether they use abbreviations. According to this rule, if a typo causes ambiguity, then the GM may void the order. But, as argued above, 'Thaesus' did not create ambiguity.
The second House Rule is:
"If there is a typo that leads to an incorrect order, it will be read as-is."
I am assuming that this is the House Rule being used in your interpretation. Perhaps the rule requires further explication, because the example used in the House Rules is "Ven to Rum" in the place of "Ven to Rom". So, the context of the rule implies that it applies in instances when the typo significantly change the meaning of the order. It does not necessarily imply that spelling will be grounds for nullification.
And that is why I am confused by the no-such-province adjudication of:
F Punic Sea to Thaesus
Are you really requiring that we submit our orders with perfect spelling?!? (Because that's what this boils down to). I mean to say... Chersonesus is a bugger to spell. Does it really matter whether I type Chersonesus, Chersenesus, Chersonnesus, etc...? The intent is crystal clear. If I want to get really pedantic, I would ask how 'Thaesus' is any less correct than orders I have previously submitted such as 'F Alexandria - Libyan' (there is a Libyan Sea, but not a Libyan).
So, to summarize my point:
When there is no ambiguity in province designation, do you really want spelling to override player intent?
[Yes, I understand that this very possibly could be an 'intentional misorder' on Rome's part, but do you really want to create this precedent in order to enable a misorder?]
Thank you for considering my argument,
Adam[Reply] |
| DC 285: Fall 298 Results - blueraider0 at gmail.com (Feb 20, 2010, 7:49 pm) |
We have two erroneous orders and one unit that NMR'd (and another unit that NMR'd to the misorder). One misorder is quite consequential, the other is not terribly awful, and the one unit that NMR'd might as well have held. So here are the orders.
Rome:
A Etruria - Massilia (*Fails*)
F Punic Sea to Thaesus (No such province)
A Rhaetia - Vindobona
A Roma - Neapolis (*Bounce*)
F Sicilia - Neapolis (*Bounce*)
Carthage:
F Ausonian Sea - Neapolis (*Bounce*)
F Berber Sea Convoys A Sardinia - Carthage
F Ligurian Sea - Baleares
A Massilia, NMR
A Sardinia - Carthage
A Tarraconensis Supports A Massilia
A Thapsus Supports A Sardinia - Carthage
Persia:
A Armenia - Chersonesus (*Bounce*)
F Byzantium - Macedonia (*Fails*)
A Cappadocia - Sinope
F Cilician Strait - Miletus (*Fails*)
A Dacia Supports F Byzantium - Macedonia
A Galatia Supports A Cappadocia - Sinope
F Miletus - Byzantium (*Fails*)
A Tyre Hold
Greece:
F Black Sea Supports A Macedonia - Byzantium
A Dalmatia - Illyria
A Macedonia - Byzantium (*Fails*)
A Sinope - Chersonesus (*Dislodged*)
F Sparta, NMR
F Athens to Messenian Sea (*Fails* No unit in Athens, provinces not connected anyway)
Egypt:
A Bayuda - Sahara
F Egyptian Sea Hold
F Gulf of Tacape Supports F Punic Sea - Thapsus (*Void*)
A Jerusalem - Tyre (*Fails*)
A Leptis - Numidia
F Libyan Sea Supports F Gulf of Tacape
F Minoan Sea - Aegean Sea
A Phazania - Cirta
Check map for errors. All misorders and NMRs were already double checked, so don't bother arguing.
Need 1 retreat. Greek army in Sinope can retreat to Bithynia or OTB. Retreat deadline is Tuesday Feb 23rd, but I'll adjud sooner if I get the order and "final" in the subject. Also, this was a fall move, so I'll need builds, so feel free to start thinking about that.
Carthage will lose 1
Egypt will gain 2
Persiwill gain 1
Greece will have to disband one, but may retreat Sinope OTB to prevent that (of course, he may also retreat to Bithynia and then disband Bithynia in the winter).
Builds/disbands will be required sometime towards the end of next week - deadline will be set once I get the retreat.
--
"It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger they were. and sometimes you didn't want to know the end because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it's only a passing thing. The shadow, even the darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer. Those were the stories that stayed with you - That meant something. Even if you were too small to understand why. But I think, Mr. Frodo, I do understand. I know now. Folk in those stories had lots of chances of turning back only they didn't. They kept going because they were holding onto something."
"What are we holding onto, Sam?"
"That there's some good in this world, Mr. Frodo. And it's worth fighting for."[Reply] |
| DC 285: Fall 298 Results (dc285) AceRimmer Feb 22, 12:18 pm |
Alex,
All misorders and NMRs were
already double checked, so don't bother arguing.
This almost sounds like a challenge, doesn't it? I pick up thy gauntlet, oh noble knight. I apologize if the following is an example of using a cannon to kill a rabbit.
F Punic Sea to Thaesus (No such province)
A Massilia, NMR
F Sparta, NMR
F Athens to Messenian Sea (*Fails* No unit in
Athens, provinces not connected anyway)
The House Rules are interesting on these misorders. Clearly, the overriding rule is:
"The GM holds the final say on any in-game dispute."
So, in the end, what you say decides the issue.
I understand the NMR for F Sparta. I do know GMs who would 'correct' the order, but Sparta is clearly not Athens, and the NMR makes sense to me.
But I confess to scratching my head at F Punic to Thaesus. True, there is no Thaesus. But there is a Thapsus, which differs by only one letter from Thaesus. And Thapsus is right next door to Punic Sea (so, it makes contextual sense). Furthermore, there is no other province even remotely similar in name to Thaesus. The *only* (and I use this word full-knowing how categorical it is) logical in-board interpretation of Thaesus is that it should be Thapsus. If you can show me a plausible ambiguity in interpretation, I will withdraw my challenge.
There are two House Rules sort of pertaining to this misorder, but neither takes it head on. First:
"In the case of an ambiguous order, the GM may void the move and have the unit stand."
Admittedly, this rule is located amidst a discussion of province abbreviations, but (a) most every set of House Rules has such a blanket provision, and (b) it makes sense that ambiguity should be treated the same whether a player types out full names or whether they use abbreviations. According to this rule, if a typo causes ambiguity, then the GM may void the order. But, as argued above, 'Thaesus' did not create ambiguity.
The second House Rule is:
"If there is a typo that leads to an incorrect order, it will be read as-is."
I am assuming that this is the House Rule being used in your interpretation. Perhaps the rule requires further explication, because the example used in the House Rules is "Ven to Rum" in the place of "Ven to Rom". So, the context of the rule implies that it applies in instances when the typo significantly change the meaning of the order. It does not necessarily imply that spelling will be grounds for nullification.
And that is why I am confused by the no-such-province adjudication of:
F Punic Sea to Thaesus
Are you really requiring that we submit our orders with perfect spelling?!? (Because that's what this boils down to). I mean to say... Chersonesus is a bugger to spell. Does it really matter whether I type Chersonesus, Chersenesus, Chersonnesus, etc...? The intent is crystal clear. If I want to get really pedantic, I would ask how 'Thaesus' is any less correct than orders I have previously submitted such as 'F Alexandria - Libyan' (there is a Libyan Sea, but not a Libyan).
So, to summarize my point:
When there is no ambiguity in province designation, do you really want spelling to override player intent?
[Yes, I understand that this very possibly could be an 'intentional misorder' on Rome's part, but do you really want to create this precedent in order to enable a misorder?]
Thank you for considering my argument,
Adam |
| DC 285: Fall 298 Results (dc285) offdisc Feb 22, 01:09 pm |
Maslow,
I hate to be a thorn in your side, but I also agree with Adam on the
Pun -> Tha issue. In fact, solely because if the order was written as
such, it would have been accepted!
I think part of the problem (and it's a bit of a gripe on my part) is
that the units on the maps sit on top of the names. So when filling
out orders, I either have to rely on my memory or retrieve an older
map, or find an empty map online. I had to do that this turn when
remember if "Cilician" was "Silician" or "Cilician". I even typed
Sicilian at first, but saw that error immediately and fixed it. The
reason I typed the entire name was so that if there was a slight typo,
the meaning would be clear.
[Warning: Slight Rant follows]
I understand that if you are using RealPolitic or other software to
assist in adjudicating, correcting typos is extra work. On the other
hand, I believe software should be used as described -- to "assist" in
judging, but not be the end-all be-all. That is the reason *I* choose
to NOT use any software when I GM. Yes, it takes more time, but it
also keeps me more involved and in touch with the game. Of course
that is a personal preference and I don't expect anyone else to follow
it. BUT, I think it may be a better course for most GMs to not rely
entirely on software to rule the game.
[Rant over]
All that being said, whatever your final decision is, we will follow!
Thanks,
Michael
---------
"Shared Pain is lessened, Shared Joy is increased" --- Spider Robinson
"Whenever some act of wondrous power must be performed, Michael is
sent" --- Pope Saint Gregory the Great
On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:18 AM, Adam Martin-Schwarze
<smegdwarf(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
Alex,
[quote:55c9b84816]All misorders and NMRs were
already double checked, so don't bother arguing.
This almost sounds like a challenge, doesn't it? I pick up thy gauntlet, oh noble knight. I apologize if the following is an example of using a cannon to kill a rabbit.
F Punic Sea to Thaesus (No such province)
A Massilia, NMR
F Sparta, NMR
F Athens to Messenian Sea (*Fails* No unit in
Athens, provinces not connected anyway)
The House Rules are interesting on these misorders. Clearly, the overriding rule is:
"The GM holds the final say on any in-game dispute."
So, in the end, what you say decides the issue.
I understand the NMR for F Sparta. I do know GMs who would 'correct' the order, but Sparta is clearly not Athens, and the NMR makes sense to me.
But I confess to scratching my head at F Punic to Thaesus. True, there is no Thaesus. But there is a Thapsus, which differs by only one letter from Thaesus. And Thapsus is right next door to Punic Sea (so, it makes contextual sense). Furthermore, there is no other province even remotely similar in name to Thaesus. The *only* (and I use this word full-knowing how categorical it is) logical in-board interpretation of Thaesus is that it should be Thapsus. If you can show me a plausible ambiguity in interpretation, I will withdraw my challenge.
There are two House Rules sort of pertaining to this misorder, but neither takes it head on. First:
"In the case of an ambiguous order, the GM may void the move and have the unit stand."
Admittedly, this rule is located amidst a discussion of province abbreviations, but (a) most every set of House Rules has such a blanket provision, and (b) it makes sense that ambiguity should be treated the same whether a player types out full names or whether they use abbreviations. According to this rule, if a typo causes ambiguity, then the GM may void the order. But, as argued above, 'Thaesus' did not create ambiguity.
The second House Rule is:
"If there is a typo that leads to an incorrect order, it will be read as-is."
I am assuming that this is the House Rule being used in your interpretation. Perhaps the rule requires further explication, because the example used in the House Rules is "Ven to Rum" in the place of "Ven to Rom". So, the context of the rule implies that it applies in instances when the typo significantly change the meaning of the order. It does not necessarily imply that spelling will be grounds for nullification.
And that is why I am confused by the no-such-province adjudication of:
F Punic Sea to Thaesus
Are you really requiring that we submit our orders with perfect spelling?!? (Because that's what this boils down to). I mean to say... Chersonesus is a bugger to spell. Does it really matter whether I type Chersonesus, Chersenesus, Chersonnesus, etc...? The intent is crystal clear. If I want to get really pedantic, I would ask how 'Thaesus' is any less correct than orders I have previously submitted such as 'F Alexandria - Libyan' (there is a Libyan Sea, but not a Libyan).
So, to summarize my point:
When there is no ambiguity in province designation, do you really want spelling to override player intent?
[Yes, I understand that this very possibly could be an 'intentional misorder' on Rome's part, but do you really want to create this precedent in order to enable a misorder?]
Thank you for considering my argument,
Adam
[/quote:55c9b84816] |
| DC 285: Fall 298 Results (dc285) blueraider0 at gmail.com Feb 22, 02:15 pm |
Raving Coyotes, ahem - I mean distinguished gentlemen,
Well, I put the "don't bother arguing" because the misorder is particularly important. And having a public argument over the issue was the last thing I wanted, because I'm suspicious that despite all discussion over rules, any vote would ultimately be more on the "does this help me" platform, instead of the rules discussed. Does a trickle up economy create jobs? Maybe, but dammit, I'm at the top and deserve that money! Let me decide where to let it flow! In the future, PLEASE send these sort of e-mails one-to-one.
But since it is public, here was my decision making process.
I just came back from a Dip tournament a few weeks ago where rules were very strict on misorders
I looked at my keyboard and realized that P and E are not close to each other, and so this is not necessarily an erroneous key stroke.
My personal experience is that Dip players are more often than not very careful and a misorder is intentional. This is not to say this misorder was or was not intentional, but often I have seen GMs "correct" misorders, only to be later "recorrected." It causes quite a mess. Better to be too strict and get everyone in line than to be too kind and cause a bigger problem.
Misorders happen in the real world as well as in the game.
Thaesus sounds like a perfectly ancient province and I actually double checked there wasn't some tiny province called Thaesus in that area I hadn't noticed before.
I recently finished a variant map (Versailles) game and always had a blank map (blank of units, not province names) handy to avoid such problems.
In addition:
I don't use RealPolitik's ability to insert orders into the program; I'm honestly not sure how to even do that. I have an overriding paranoia of technology and don't like second level commanding - that is: I like to be as hands on as possible. I point and click every single order.
Pun to Tha would have been an acceptable order. But that was not what was written. And as for the Ven to Rom/Rum issue, if you can't type 3 letters right / be bothered to check your work, then I don't see why I should cut you any slack.
So here's what I'm going to do. The order remains as is. In the future, if there is an order that I notice is invalid, I will note this when I "recieve" your orders, and you'll have the chance to fix the order (or not, if you so wish). If I don't notice or don't recieve an updated order by the time of the deadline, too bad. Let that be more motivation for you to send orders before the deadline starts closing in.
I hope that pleases either all parties, or nobody. Equality for all!
Take care, and still waiting on that Greek retreat!
-Maslow
On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 2:09 PM, Mike Hoffman <mrh(at)panix.com ([email]mrh(at)panix.com[/email])> wrote:
Maslow,
I hate to be a thorn in your side, but I also agree with Adam on the
Pun -> Tha issue. In fact, solely because if the order was written as
such, it would have been accepted!
I think part of the problem (and it's a bit of a gripe on my part) is
that the units on the maps sit on top of the names. So when filling
out orders, I either have to rely on my memory or retrieve an older
map, or find an empty map online. I had to do that this turn when
remember if "Cilician" was "Silician" or "Cilician". I even typed
Sicilian at first, but saw that error immediately and fixed it. "The
reason I typed the entire name was so that if there was a slight typo,
the meaning would be clear."
[Warning: Slight Rant follows]
I understand that if you are using RealPolitic or other software to
assist in adjudicating, correcting typos is extra work. On the other
hand, I believe software should be used as described -- to "assist" in
judging, but not be the end-all be-all. That is the reason *I* choose
to NOT use any software when I GM. Yes, it takes more time, but it
also keeps me more involved and in touch with the game. Of course
that is a personal preference and I don't expect anyone else to follow
it. BUT, I think it may be a better course for most GMs to not rely
entirely on software to rule the game.
[Rant over]
All that being said, whatever your final decision is, we will follow!
Thanks,
Michael
---------
"Shared Pain is lessened, Shared Joy is increased" --- Spider Robinson
"Whenever some act of wondrous power must be performed, Michael is
sent" --- Pope Saint Gregory the Great
On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:18 AM, Adam Martin-Schwarze
<smegdwarf(at)yahoo.com ([email]smegdwarf(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:44c1ac6e9d]Alex,
[quote:44c1ac6e9d]All misorders and NMRs were
already double checked, so don't bother arguing.
This almost sounds like a challenge, doesn't it? I pick up thy gauntlet, oh noble knight. I apologize if the following is an example of using a cannon to kill a rabbit.
F Punic Sea to Thaesus (No such province)
A Massilia, NMR
F Sparta, NMR
F Athens to Messenian Sea (*Fails* No unit in
Athens, provinces not connected anyway)
The House Rules are interesting on these misorders. Clearly, the overriding rule is:
"The GM holds the final say on any in-game dispute."
So, in the end, what you say decides the issue.
I understand the NMR for F Sparta. I do know GMs who would 'correct' the order, but Sparta is clearly not Athens, and the NMR makes sense to me.
But I confess to scratching my head at F Punic to Thaesus. True, there is no Thaesus. But there is a Thapsus, which differs by only one letter from Thaesus. And Thapsus is right next door to Punic Sea (so, it makes contextual sense). Furthermore, there is no other province even remotely similar in name to Thaesus. The *only* (and I use this word full-knowing how categorical it is) logical in-board interpretation of Thaesus is that it should be Thapsus. If you can show me a plausible ambiguity in interpretation, I will withdraw my challenge.
There are two House Rules sort of pertaining to this misorder, but neither takes it head on. First:
"In the case of an ambiguous order, the GM may void the move and have the unit stand."
Admittedly, this rule is located amidst a discussion of province abbreviations, but (a) most every set of House Rules has such a blanket provision, and (b) it makes sense that ambiguity should be treated the same whether a player types out full names or whether they use abbreviations. According to this rule, if a typo causes ambiguity, then the GM may void the order. But, as argued above, 'Thaesus' did not create ambiguity.
The second House Rule is:
"If there is a typo that leads to an incorrect order, it will be read as-is."
I am assuming that this is the House Rule being used in your interpretation. Perhaps the rule requires further explication, because the example used in the House Rules is "Ven to Rum" in the place of "Ven to Rom". So, the context of the rule implies that it applies in instances when the typo significantly change the meaning of the order. It does not necessarily imply that spelling will be grounds for nullification.
And that is why I am confused by the no-such-province adjudication of:
F Punic Sea to Thaesus
Are you really requiring that we submit our orders with perfect spelling?!? (Because that's what this boils down to). I mean to say... Chersonesus is a bugger to spell. Does it really matter whether I type Chersonesus, Chersenesus, Chersonnesus, etc...? The intent is crystal clear. If I want to get really pedantic, I would ask how 'Thaesus' is any less correct than orders I have previously submitted such as 'F Alexandria - Libyan' (there is a Libyan Sea, but not a Libyan).
So, to summarize my point:
When there is no ambiguity in province designation, do you really want spelling to override player intent?
[Yes, I understand that this very possibly could be an 'intentional misorder' on Rome's part, but do you really want to create this precedent in order to enable a misorder?]
Thank you for considering my argument,
Adam
[/quote:44c1ac6e9d]
[/quote:44c1ac6e9d]
--
"It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger they were. and sometimes you didn't want to know the end because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it's only a passing thing. The shadow, even the darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer. Those were the stories that stayed with you - That meant something. Even if you were too small to understand why. But I think, Mr. Frodo, I do understand. I know now. Folk in those stories had lots of chances of turning back only they didn't. They kept going because they were holding onto something."
"What are we holding onto, Sam?"
"That there's some good in this world, Mr. Frodo. And it's worth fighting for." |
| DC 285: Fall 298 Results (dc285) sgttodd Feb 22, 02:50 pm |
I use RealWorld/Realpolitik as my clerical staff. I also use it when submitting orders to avoid this sort of thing. Looking at the map image alone, the space in question is easily misread and subsequently misspelled. I'm sure others are too, but I've had a run in with this issue already.
Since no official abbreviation list was made available and we're left with the map alone to determine space names, I think some leeway in their spellings should be allowed, not for fat-fingering the keyboard, but for not being able to read the Latinish names on the map.
Besides how do you know his spell-checker did up and "fix it" without his realizing it when he send?
So, for future reference, here are the names and abbreviations right out of the RP file:
Adriatic Sea, adr
Aegean Sea, aeg
Alexandria, ale
Antioch, ant
Apulia, apu
Arabia, ara
Armenia, arm
Athens, ath
Ausonian Sea, aus
Baleares, bal
Bayuda, bay
Berber Sea, ber
Bithynia, bit
Black Sea, bla
Byzantium, byz
Cappadocia, cap
Carthage, car
Chersonesus, che
Cilician Strait, cil
Cirta, cir
Corsica, cor
Crete, cre
Cyprus, cyp
Cyrene, cyr
Dacia, dac
Dalmatia, dal
Damascus, dam
Egyptian Sea, egy
Epirus, epi
Etruria, etr
Galatia, gal
Gaul, gau
Gulf of Pelusium, gop
Gulf of Syrtis, gos
Gulf of Tacape, got
Iberian Sea, ibe
Illyria, ill
Ionian Sea, ion
Isauria, isa
Jerusalem, jer
Leptis, lep
Libyan Sea, lib
Ligurian Sea, lig
Lusitania, lus
Macedonia, mac
Marmarica, mar
Massilia, mas
Mauretania, mau
Memphis, mem
Messenian Sea, mes
Miletus, mil
Minoan Sea, min
Nabatea, nab
Neapolis, nea
Numidia, num
Petra, pet
Phazania, pha
Punic Sea, pun
Ravenna, rav
Reed Sea, ree
Rhaetia, rha
Roma, rom
Saguntum, sag
Sahara, sah
Sardinia, sad
Sarmatia, sam
Sicilia, sic
Sidon, sid
Sinai, sii
Sinope, sip
Sparta, spa
Syrian Sea, syr
Tarraconensis, tar
Thapsus, tha
Thebes, the
Tyre, tye
Tyrrhenean Sea, tyn
Venetia, ven
Vindobona, vin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jerry Todd
Carthage
_______________________________________________________
Sent through e-mol. E-mail, Anywhere, Anytime. http://www.e-mol.com |
| DC 285: Deadline alert - blueraider0 at gmail.com (Feb 18, 2010, 7:13 pm) |
Deadline in under 24 hours. Still missing two sets of orders.
-Maslow
--
"It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger they were. and sometimes you didn't want to know the end because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it's only a passing thing. The shadow, even the darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer. Those were the stories that stayed with you - That meant something. Even if you were too small to understand why. But I think, Mr. Frodo, I do understand. I know now. Folk in those stories had lots of chances of turning back only they didn't. They kept going because they were holding onto something."
"What are we holding onto, Sam?"
"That there's some good in this world, Mr. Frodo. And it's worth fighting for."[Reply] |
| DC 285: Summer 288 retreat - blueraider0 at gmail.com (Feb 12, 2010, 8:30 pm) |
Persia retreats: Sin retreats to Capp
New map attached. Fall 288 moves due Friday Feb 19th at 5 EST.
--
"It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger they were. and sometimes you didn't want to know the end because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it's only a passing thing. The shadow, even the darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer. Those were the stories that stayed with you - That meant something. Even if you were too small to understand why. But I think, Mr. Frodo, I do understand. I know now. Folk in those stories had lots of chances of turning back only they didn't. They kept going because they were holding onto something."
"What are we holding onto, Sam?"
"That there's some good in this world, Mr. Frodo. And it's worth fighting for."[Reply] |
| DC 285 misprint - blueraider0 at gmail.com (Feb 11, 2010, 5:18 pm) |
Not a big deal, but keep an eye out for an e-mail that says "DC 295." In my haste I wrote down the wrong number. But that e-mail has our adjud. Sorry again for the confusion....
--
"It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger they were. and sometimes you didn't want to know the end because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it's only a passing thing. The shadow, even the darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer. Those were the stories that stayed with you - That meant something. Even if you were too small to understand why. But I think, Mr. Frodo, I do understand. I know now. Folk in those stories had lots of chances of turning back only they didn't. They kept going because they were holding onto something."
"What are we holding onto, Sam?"
"That there's some good in this world, Mr. Frodo. And it's worth fighting for."[Reply] |
| DC 295: Spring 298 BC Results! - blueraider0 at gmail.com (Feb 11, 2010, 5:16 pm) |
CELEBRATION! I finally got the DC 285 group to work in my GMail. This makes me happy. Does it make you happy? Probably not. But the moves are in! Will they make you happy? We'll see! Greece/Persia do some switching and Egypt swings hard east. Rome blocks Carthage at every turn, and is that Cato the Elder I hear cheering?
Map attached, check for errors. Need 1 retreat from Persia: Sinope must go to Bithynia, Cappadocia or Chersonesus, or OTB. Deadline for retreat is tomorrow at 6 EST but if I get the retreat with "final" in the subject of the e-mail, I'll adjudicate sooner.
Rome:
A Etruria Supports A Vindobona - Rhaetia
A Roma Hold
F Sicilia Supports F Tyrrhenean Sea - Punic Sea
F Tyrrhenean Sea - Punic Sea
A Vindobona - Rhaetia
Carthage:
F Berber Sea - Punic Sea (*Fails*)
F Ligurian Sea Supports A Tarraconensis - Massilia (*Fails*)
A Massilia - Rhaetia (*Fails*)
F Punic Sea - Ausonian Sea
A Sardinia Hold
A Tarraconensis - Massilia (*Fails*)
A Thapsus Hold
Persia:
F Antioch - Cilician Strait
A Cappadocia - Galatia
F Cilician Strait - Miletus
A Dacia Supports F Miletus - Byzantium
A Damascus - Armenia
F Miletus - Byzantium
A Sinope Supports A Cappadocia - Galatia (*Dislodged*)
A Tyre Hold
Greece:
F Aegean Sea - Sparta
F Black Sea Supports A Galatia - Sinope
A Dalmatia Hold
A Galatia - Sinope
A Illyria - Macedonia
Egypt:
F Alexandria - Egyptian Sea
A Cyrene - Leptis
F Egyptian Sea - Libyan Sea
A Jerusalem Hold
A Marmarica - Phazania
F Messenian Sea - Gulf of Tacape
F Minoan Sea Supports F Cilician Strait - Miletus
A Thebes - Bayuda
--
"It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger they were. and sometimes you didn't want to know the end because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it's only a passing thing. The shadow, even the darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer. Those were the stories that stayed with you - That meant something. Even if you were too small to understand why. But I think, Mr. Frodo, I do understand. I know now. Folk in those stories had lots of chances of turning back only they didn't. They kept going because they were holding onto something."
"What are we holding onto, Sam?"
"That there's some good in this world, Mr. Frodo. And it's worth fighting for."[Reply] |
| DC 285: Deadline update - blueraider0 at gmail.com (Feb 10, 2010, 7:54 am) |
So, I never sent out a deadline with the last adjud. According to my own head, that would be today at 5. However, some people seem to think it is tomorrow. In addition, I got tied up last night and forgot to send out a deadline warning and the NMR warning. So the deadline will be TOMORROW at 5 PM EST. So that's about 32 hours from now. Consider this your deadline warning. If I have recieved NO orders from you by 5 PM EST tonight, I'll send a reminder.
Sorry about the confusion.....
-Maslow
--
"It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger they were. and sometimes you didn't want to know the end because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it's only a passing thing. The shadow, even the darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer. Those were the stories that stayed with you - That meant something. Even if you were too small to understand why. But I think, Mr. Frodo, I do understand. I know now. Folk in those stories had lots of chances of turning back only they didn't. They kept going because they were holding onto something."
"What are we holding onto, Sam?"
"That there's some good in this world, Mr. Frodo. And it's worth fighting for."[Reply] |
| DC 285: Winter 298 results - blueraider0 at gmail.com (Feb 03, 2010, 4:52 pm) |
Winter adjuds are in!
Map is attached, please check for errors.
Also, I will be without computer access this weekend, From Friday afternoon until Sunday evening. So don't worry if I don't get back to you right away...
Take care,
-Maslow
Rome:
Remove F Adriatic Sea
Carthage:
Build A Thapsus
Persia:
Build F Antioch
Build A Damascus
Greece:
Remove F Macedonia Egypt:
Build A Thebes
Build F Alexandria
--
"It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger they were. and sometimes you didn't want to know the end because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it's only a passing thing. The shadow, even the darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer. Those were the stories that stayed with you - That meant something. Even if you were too small to understand why. But I think, Mr. Frodo, I do understand. I know now. Folk in those stories had lots of chances of turning back only they didn't. They kept going because they were holding onto something."
"What are we holding onto, Sam?"
"That there's some good in this world, Mr. Frodo. And it's worth fighting for."[Reply] |
| DC 285: Winter 298 Deadline approaching - blueraider0 at gmail.com (Feb 02, 2010, 5:24 pm) |
I have 4/5 winter adjustments. You still have 24 hours to get your adjustments in and/or revise your previous e-mail.
-Maslow
--
"It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger they were. and sometimes you didn't want to know the end because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it's only a passing thing. The shadow, even the darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer. Those were the stories that stayed with you - That meant something. Even if you were too small to understand why. But I think, Mr. Frodo, I do understand. I know now. Folk in those stories had lots of chances of turning back only they didn't. They kept going because they were holding onto something."
"What are we holding onto, Sam?"
"That there's some good in this world, Mr. Frodo. And it's worth fighting for."[Reply] |
| DC 285: Fall 299 Results - blueraider0 at gmail.com (Jan 31, 2010, 5:55 pm) |
Results are in, and what an exciting game this suddenly is!
Rome:
F Adriatic Sea - Dalmatia (*Fails*)
A Etruria - Massilia (*Fails*)
F Neapolis - Sicilia
A Roma Hold
F Tyrrhenean Sea Supports F Neapolis - Sicilia
A Vindobona Supports F Adriatic Sea - Dalmatia
Carthage:
F Berber Sea Convoys A Mauretania - Massilia
F Ligurian Sea Convoys A Mauretania - Massilia
A Mauretania - Massilia
F Punic Sea Convoys A Thapsus - Sardinia
A Tarraconensis Supports A Mauretania - Massilia
A Thapsus - Sardinia
Persia:
A Armenia - Sinope
A Cappadocia Supports A Armenia - Sinope
F Cilician Strait - Miletus
F Cyprus - Cilician Strait
A Dacia - Byzantium (*Bounce*)
A Tyre Hold
Greece:
F Aegean Sea - Byzantium (*Bounce*)
F Byzantium - Black Sea
A Dalmatia Supports A Illyria (*Cut*)
A Galatia - Miletus (*Fails*)
A Illyria Supports A Dalmatia
F Athens(ec) - Macedonia
Egypt:
A Cyrene Hold
F Gulf of Pelusium - Egyptian Sea
F Libyan Sea - Messenian Sea
A Marmarica Hold
F Minoan Sea Supports F Cilician Strait - Miletus
A Petra - Jerusalem
Map is attached. Check for errors. Winter builds/disbands are
Rome must disband 1
Carthage may build 1
Persia may build 2
Greece must disband 1
Egypt may build 2
Builds/disbands are due Wed Feb 3rd at 5:00 PM, but I'll adjud earlier IF I have ALL orders AND every order has FINAL in the subject. Recall, this winter build is 298 BC.
--
"It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger they were. and sometimes you didn't want to know the end because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it's only a passing thing. The shadow, even the darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer. Those were the stories that stayed with you - That meant something. Even if you were too small to understand why. But I think, Mr. Frodo, I do understand. I know now. Folk in those stories had lots of chances of turning back only they didn't. They kept going because they were holding onto something."
"What are we holding onto, Sam?"
"That there's some good in this world, Mr. Frodo. And it's worth fighting for."[Reply] |
| DC 285: Deadline warning - blueraider0 at gmail.com (Jan 26, 2010, 7:11 pm) |
Gentlemen, the deadline is fast approaching, we have less than 24 hours. I am still missing two sets of orders. If you haven't already sent in your orders, please do so immediately. Also, you may send me updated orders between now and then.
Take care!
-Maslow
--
"It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger they were. and sometimes you didn't want to know the end because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it's only a passing thing. The shadow, even the darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer. Those were the stories that stayed with you - That meant something. Even if you were too small to understand why. But I think, Mr. Frodo, I do understand. I know now. Folk in those stories had lots of chances of turning back only they didn't. They kept going because they were holding onto something."
"What are we holding onto, Sam?"
"That there's some good in this world, Mr. Frodo. And it's worth fighting for."[Reply] |
| DC 285: ANOTHER correction - blueraider0 at gmail.com (Jan 21, 2010, 2:25 pm) |
And they keep coming in! Egypt ordered Crete to Minoan, NOT Messenian. My apologies. Map is corrected.
--
"It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger they were. and sometimes you didn't want to know the end because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it's only a passing thing. The shadow, even the darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer. Those were the stories that stayed with you - That meant something. Even if you were too small to understand why. But I think, Mr. Frodo, I do understand. I know now. Folk in those stories had lots of chances of turning back only they didn't. They kept going because they were holding onto something."
"What are we holding onto, Sam?"
"That there's some good in this world, Mr. Frodo. And it's worth fighting for."[Reply] |
