| DC431 needs replacement Britain - smileyrob (Jun 29, 2012, 12:32 pm) |
DC431 is a game of 1900 diplomacy. If you haven't played, give it a try, you may never go back to standard.
This is not a mercy position. It's only the first winter, and Britain has 2 builds, for you to place as you desire.[Reply] |
| DC431 needs replacement Britain (Light Brigade) MDemagogue Jul 01, 02:49 am |
| I'll take it if that's cool? |
| dc431 Winter 1900 late orders - smileyrob (Jun 29, 2012, 12:27 pm) |
Gentlemen,
I regret to inform you that our British player, Ethan, has yet to submit build orders. My house rules state:
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}p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal { margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman"; }table.MsoNormalTable { font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman"; }div.Section1 { page: Section1; }ol { margin-bottom: 0in; }ul { margin-bottom: 0in; }
If a player has not submitted orders to the GM
by the deadline it shall invoke the following procedure:
In
the first year of a game, the player making the NMR will be immediately
removed from the game. That turn will not be adjudicated until a
replacement player has been found and a reasonable period of diplomacy
provided for.
As it is still the first game year, I should remove Ethan from the game and await a replacement player. Yet since Ethan did submit orders for both spring and fall, I am not completely opposed to leniency. I am going to begin searching for a replacement, and if one is found before we hear from Ethan, he will get the position. But if, before a replacement is found, Ethan does contact us, submit his orders, confirm his commitment to the game, and pledge to send preliminaries orders for the remainder of the game, I am inclined to let him keep his position. Of course if anyone objects, and believes I should strictly enforce the rule no matter how long it takes to find a replacement, then Ethan will not be allowed to resume playing.
I suppose I should apologize for this situation. Maybe it would have been better to have limited access to this game to players who have demonstrated that they do in fact play the games they sign onto. But I generally prefer to trust people until they give me a reason not to, and if GMs aren't willing to let unproven players play, how are they supposed to prove their reliability?
I am curious as to how active Ethan has been in this game. Does he regularly send press? Has anyone heard from him since the fall results were published?
Robert[Reply] |
| DC406: Deadline Reminder - offdisc (Jun 28, 2012, 10:20 am) |
Hi All,
Minor crash of my laptop this morning. No moves processed yet.
I am locking down the turn though, so no more move changes.
Processing tonight.
Thanks,
Mike
---------
"Sit Long, Talk Much, Laugh Often" -- anon
"Shared Pain is lessened, Shared Joy is increased" --- Spider Robinson
On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 3:13 PM, Mike Hoffman <mrh(at)panix.com> wrote:
Deadlines coming round the calendar quick! Just over 24-hours from now, moves will be processed.
If you've sent me your moves, your orders will be entered and your units (hopefully) will move.
If you have not, then your units will sit around, lazily whiling away the time, while your opponents swoop in and push them away.
Mike
---------
"Sit Long, Talk Much, Laugh Often" -- anon
"Shared Pain is lessened, Shared Joy is increased" --- Spider Robinson[Reply] |
| dc394 s15 retreats! - FuzzyLogic (Jun 28, 2012, 9:26 am) |
Here's some happy little retreats for all of you...
NEXT: Tuesday! That's July 3, 3pm Central.
Enjoy,
-mike
Dwarves:
A Nowwhat - Lindon
Hobbits:
A The Neverwood - Parce Pass
Knights:
A Hoarluk - Ancient Necropolis
F CHURNING REACH - RAZORS EDGE
Rogues:
F Gelfling - NORTH RAINBOW LAKE
F Terabithia - The Old Gristmill
F WEST MIRIANIC OCEAN - ALL SAINTS BAY
[Reply] |
| DC428 Spring 1903 - Zoterik (Jun 28, 2012, 9:22 am) |
Some interesting moves this turn. Neither Italy nor Austria move to Trieste, as Italy tries something clever and Austria aligns himself into a strong tactical position, dislodging the Italian A Albania in the process. England leaves Belgium and Brest, permitting Germany to slip into Belgium and France into Brest. Turkey, despite having the lowest center count, appears rather secure, and Russia strikes decisively towards the center of the board.
There are three dislodged units which need to be given a retreat or disbanded. They are A Albania (one retreat), A Burgundy (three), and F Mid Atlantic (eight). The Summer 1903 retreats are due at 9:00pm US CDT on Sunday, 1st July, or 03:00 BST on Monday, 2nd July.
Germany has pointed out to me that I made a mistake in the Spring 1902 orders. Russia had actually ordered Petersburg to Moscow, which I correctly transferred into realpolitik, but I incorrectly wrote in the adjudication email that the army was ordered to Norway. The error does not affect the game, and I thank him for noticing.
Austria
A Galicia - Vienna
A Budapest S A Galicia - ViennaF Greece - Albania
A Serbia S F Greece - AlbaniaF Aegean Sea - Greece
England
F London - North Sea
A Belgium - BurgundyA Picardy S A Belgium - Burgundy
F Denmark S F London - North SeaF Brest - Mid Atlantic Ocean
F English Channel S F Brest - Mid Atlantic Ocean
France
A Gascony - BrestF Mid Atlantic Ocean S A Gascony - Brest (*dislodged*)
A Paris S A Gascony-BrestA Burgundy - Picardy (*dislodged*)
Germany
F Heligoland Bight - North Sea (*fails*)A Holland - Belgium
A Berlin - KielA Silesia - Munich
Italy
A Tyrolia HoldsF Ionian Sea S Aus F Greece - Aegean Sea (*void*)
A Albania - Greece (*dislodged*)F Naples S Ionian Sea
Russia
F Sweden - Baltic SeaA Norway - Sweden
A Warsaw - PrussiaA Moscow - Warsaw
A Petersburg - LivoniaA Sevastopol S Rumania
A Rumania S Bulgaria/ec A Bulgaria/ec S Rumania (*cut*)
Turkey
F Constantinople - Aegean SeaF Black Sea - Bulgaria/ec (*fails*)
A Smyrna Holds[Reply] |
| dc422 end-game proposal succeeds! - TheFinalCountdown (Jun 27, 2012, 8:40 pm) |
Sorry this took so long...
I started this game deciding that under no circumstances would I work with France. I've played Germany before and just found that working with France was not the way to go. That said, I made nice overtones to France and agreed to DMZ Burgandy. Friendly relations with Italy made me feel better about the decision and Austria and Russia each agreed to leave me alone. Starting with two builds and having France on the run was a good first year. I made some tactical blunders in the next two years as France stuck around and it ended with England and I stabbing each other in Belgium and Denmark. I threatened England that I would go suicidal on him if he didn't give back Denmark and he relented. At this point, France was on the run and a year later, Austria attacked. Repositioning and firming up my alliance with England allowed me to repel Austria and move armies East. At this point I also convinced Turkey to stab Austria while telling Austria I was on his side. That move ended up helping a lot as Austria basically ceded his centers to me at that point as he charged against Turkey. After that, there were a few moments where I thought I might have a solo chance, but I made some more tactical errors and then a 3 way was pretty much the only option. It took us a few years to figure that out, but we got there.
In another strange game note, England and I never seemed to actually sort out our alliance, but it carried both of us through to the end of the game with as little trust as I've ever been a part of in an alliance. Turkey and I didn't speak until at least five years in.
Thanks to all and to Jerome for GMing...
-Matt
On Fri, Jun 15, 2012 at 8:56 AM, Barnes, Matthew <matthew_barnes(at)brown.edu> wrote:
Great game guys. I'm in the process of writing a full EOG - so expect that soon.
Thanks to Jerome for GM'ing
Matt
On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 5:17 PM, Mike Hoffman <mrh(at)panix.com> wrote:
YEAH!!!!! Finally!!! 
Thanks Herome for administering the game. Thanks, also, for working to clarify the "distance" and "auto disband" rules.
Congrats to my fellow survivors, Matt & Fletch! Game well-played. Don't know which of you was holding out hope for a solo, but glad the light shone through and we ended up with the DIAS.
And with that, I can let another miserable Blitz tourney fade in my rear-view mirror.
Mike
---------
"Sit Long, Talk Much, Laugh Often" -- anon
"Shared Pain is lessened, Shared Joy is increased" --- Spider Robinson
On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 2:10 PM, Jerome Payne <jerome777(at)ymail.com> wrote:
Hi everyone,
The Draw Including All Survivors end-game proposal has passed!
Congratulations to the three remaining players, namely Thomas (England), Matt (Germany) and Mike (Turkey). I thought this was a well-fought game, and was interesting to watch. I hope you guys had fun playing it, and we welcome end-of-game-statements being posted. You can either reply-all to this message, or post EOGs directly on the Blitz message board.
Cheers,
Jerome
--
Matthew Barnes
Brown University 2013
Mechanical Engineering
--
Matthew Barnes
Brown University 2013
Mechanical Engineering[Reply] |
| Haven Cooking - The_Blurbist (Jun 27, 2012, 10:31 am) |
Wouldn't the units disband rather than hold if this is their retreat phase?
--- On Wed, 6/27/12, Michael Sims <mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.com> wrote:
From: Michael Sims <mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.com>
Subject: Haven Cooking
To: "Michael Penner" <mvpenner(at)yahoo.com>, baz.dip(at)gmail.com, dipcorp.player(at)gmail.com, diplomacy(at)diffell.net, chaosonejoe(at)yahoo.com, welsh_stroud(at)msn.com, "Garry Bledsoe" <kielmarch(at)hotmail.com>, dan.i.sinensky(at)gmail.com, "Jerome Payne" <jerome777(at)ymail.com>, jfburgess(at)gmail.com, wealllovekatamari(at)yahoo.com, mjn82(at)yahoo.com, mrh(at)panix.com, sandiegosmith(at)hotmail.com, Spinozas(at)gmx.net, kingkovas(at)gmail.com, clockheardt(at)yahoo.com, tiga124(at)aol.com, tomahaha(at)frontiernet.net
Cc: "dc394"
<dc394(at)diplomaticcorp.com>
Date: Wednesday, June 27, 2012, 9:36 AM
Start with a game.
Add no moves.
Stir. Sautee.
Cover.
Simmer until deadline.
Now watch closely.
As all your units hold.
[Reply] |
| Haven Cooking - FuzzyLogic (Jun 27, 2012, 8:36 am) |
Start with a game.
Add no moves.
Stir. Sautee.
Cover.
Simmer until deadline.
Now watch closely.
As all your units hold.
[Reply] |
| Haven Cooking (dc394) The_Blurbist Jun 27, 10:31 am |
Wouldn't the units disband rather than hold if this is their retreat phase?
--- On Wed, 6/27/12, Michael Sims <mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.com> wrote:
From: Michael Sims <mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.com>
Subject: Haven Cooking
To: "Michael Penner" <mvpenner(at)yahoo.com>, baz.dip(at)gmail.com, dipcorp.player(at)gmail.com, diplomacy(at)diffell.net, chaosonejoe(at)yahoo.com, welsh_stroud(at)msn.com, "Garry Bledsoe" <kielmarch(at)hotmail.com>, dan.i.sinensky(at)gmail.com, "Jerome Payne" <jerome777(at)ymail.com>, jfburgess(at)gmail.com, wealllovekatamari(at)yahoo.com, mjn82(at)yahoo.com, mrh(at)panix.com, sandiegosmith(at)hotmail.com, Spinozas(at)gmx.net, kingkovas(at)gmail.com, clockheardt(at)yahoo.com, tiga124(at)aol.com, tomahaha(at)frontiernet.net
Cc: "dc394"
<dc394(at)diplomaticcorp.com>
Date: Wednesday, June 27, 2012, 9:36 AM
Start with a game.
Add no moves.
Stir. Sautee.
Cover.
Simmer until deadline.
Now watch closely.
As all your units hold.
|
| dc431 Fall 1900 adjudication - smileyrob (Jun 27, 2012, 12:31 am) |
Gentlemen,
Here are the Fall 1900 results. There are no dislodged units. All the neutrals, save two, Denmark and Serbia have been claimed. Interestingly both of those centers were occupied in the spring only to be vacated this fall. Growth was rather evenly distributed, with no power gaining more than two centers, five gaining two, and two gaining one. Build orders are due Thursday, 8 PM PDT. Unlike with spring and fall orders, I'll publish the winter results as soon as I have everyone's orders, unless someone requests I wait until the deadline.
DC431(1900 DIPLOMACY) FALL 1900 ADJUDICATION
PLAYERS:
Austria: Jerome Payne jerome777(at)ymail.com
Britain: Ethan Schubert schu9914(at)vandals.uidaho.edu
France: Michael Nickles flexpoint1(at)gmail.com
Germany: Andrew Tanner amtrating(at)gmail.com
Italy: Jack McHugh jwmchughjr(at)gmail.com
Russia: Lynn Mercer hancockfc(at)yahoo.com
Turkey: Michael Thompson psychosis(at)sky.com
HEADLINES:
Austrian army marches through Serbia to claim Bulgaria.
Kaiser prefers Austrian occupation of Switzerland to Italian.
Royal Navy seizes Norway despite Russian resistance but allows Germans to sail into North Sea.
French repel Italian assault on Marseilles, establish firm control of the city.
Turkish armies annex Greece without resistance but must fight to keep British out of Damascus.
ORDERS:
Britain: F Norwegian Sea Supports F North Sea - Norway.
Britain: F North Sea - Norway.
Britain: F Western Mediterranean - Algeria.
Britain: F Eastern Mediterranean - Damascus (*Bounce*).
Austria: A Tyrolia - Switzerland.
Austria: A Vienna - Trieste.
Austria: A Serbia - Bulgaria.
France: A Spain Supports A Gascony - Marseilles.
France: A Gascony - Marseilles.
France: A Morocco Hold.
France: F Mid Atlantic Ocean - Portugal.
Germany: F Denmark - North Sea.
Germany: A Kiel - Netherlands.
Germany: A Munich Supports A Tyrolia - Switzerland.
Germany: A Belgium Supports A Kiel - Netherlands.
Italy: A Piedmont - Marseilles (*Fails*).
Italy: A Milan - Switzerland (*Fails*).
Italy: F Ionian Sea - Tripolitania.
Russia: A St Petersburg - Norway (*Fails*).
Russia: A Ukraine Supports F Sevastopol - Rumania.
Russia: F Sevastopol - Rumania.
Russia: F Gulf of Bothnia - Sweden.
Turkey: A Macedonia - Greece.
Turkey: F Ankara - Constantinople.
Turkey: A Palestine - Damascus (*Bounce*).
UNIT LOCATIONS:
Britain: F Algeria, F Norway, F Norwegian Sea, F Eastern Mediterranean.
Austria: A Trieste, A Switzerland, A Bulgaria.
France: A Spain, A Marseilles, F Portugal, A Morocco.
Germany: A Munich, A Netherlands, A Belgium, F North Sea.
Italy: A Piedmont, A Milan, F Tripolitania.
Russia: A St Petersburg, A Ukraine, F Sweden, F Rumania.
Turkey: A Greece, F Constantinople, A Palestine.
OWNERSHIP OF SUPPLY CENTERS:
Britain: Edinburgh, Liverpool, London, Egypt, Algeria, Norway.
Austria: Vienna, Budapest, Trieste, Switzerland, Bulgaria.
France: Spain, Brest, Paris, Marseilles, Portugal, Morocco.
Germany: Kiel, Cologne, Berlin, Munich, Netherlands, Belgium.
Italy: Milan, Rome, Naples, Tripolitania.
Russia: St Petersburg, Warsaw, Moscow, Sevastopol, Sweden, Rumania.
Turkey: Greece, Constantinople, Ankara, Damascus.
Unowned: Denmark, Serbia.
Britain: 6 Supply centers, 4 Units: Builds 2 units. (can build in Edinburgh, Liverpool, and London)
Austria: 5 Supply centers, 3 Units: Builds 2 units. (can build in Vienna and Budapest)
France: 6 Supply centers, 4 Units: Builds 2 units. (can build in Brest and Paris)
Germany: 6 Supply centers, 4 Units: Builds 2 units. (can build in Kiel, Cologne, and Berlin)
Italy: 4 Supply centers, 3 Units: Builds 1 unit. (can build in Rome or Naples)
Russia: 6 Supply centers, 4 Units: Builds 2 units. (can build in Warsaw, Moscow, and Sevestapol)
Turkey: 4 Supply centers, 3 Units: Builds 1 unit. (can build in Ankara or Damascus)
UPCOMING DEADLINES:
Winter 1900 adjustments Thursday, June 28, 8 PM PDT (Friday, June 29, 3AM GMT)
Spring 1901 preliminaries Friday, June 29, 8PM PDT (Saturday, June 30, 3AM GMT)
Spring 1901 orders Tuesday, July 3, 8PM PDT (Wednesday, July 4, 3AM GMT)[Reply] |
| DC406: Deadline Reminder - offdisc (Jun 26, 2012, 4:13 pm) |
Deadlines coming round the calendar quick! Just over 24-hours from now, moves will be processed.
If you've sent me your moves, your orders will be entered and your units (hopefully) will move.
If you have not, then your units will sit around, lazily whiling away the time, while your opponents swoop in and push them away.
Mike
---------
"Sit Long, Talk Much, Laugh Often" -- anon
"Shared Pain is lessened, Shared Joy is increased" --- Spider Robinson[Reply] |
| DC399 Congo EGS - pieandmash (Jun 26, 2012, 9:03 am) |
Im not smart enough clearly!
From: Sean O'Donnell <sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com>
To: Andrew Tanner <amtrating(at)gmail.com>; Michael Norton mjn82 DC <mjn82(at)yahoo.com>
Cc: Nick Powell DrSwordopolis DC <nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com>; Jerome Payne DC jerome777 <jerome777(at)ymail.com>; Gino Karczewski <gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com>; Warren Fleming alwayshunted DC <alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com>; Viper Michael Penner GM <worldwidegm(at)gmail.com>; max victory <maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk>; Tim Crosby 2
<timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com>; dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com; Douglas 2 <dougray30(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, 25 June 2012, 19:01
Subject: RE: DC399 Congo EGS
"Gino Im sorry I had to stab you because it worked well, but I could see to get into the finishing phase I needed to grow quick and so.....and Sean- dont ever say 'its over for me', as I translated that to be 'I give up' which is why I stabbed you at the end."
Thank you for the memory jog, Max. If I recall correctly, you're referring to the point China, you, and I had started to diverge strategically and tactically. I was very confident that the only way to convince Quebec to halt his attack was seek a way for Europe to be useful or to force units to withdrawal or to turn the tables. Unfortunately, China and Mexico were effectively becoming tied at the hip at the time, and you were in position to aid China against Oceania. Without achieving a line or establishing usefulness, or forcing Quebec to reallocate his resources, the best I could accomplish was a survival. With China and Mexico
cooperating and I was on the ropes, it really was your best move as it offered you some growth. Quebec and you effectively seemed to have made an effective agreement enabling the 4-way rather than the game ending in a 2-way.
In my opinion, I think that the biggest reason Congo and Sahara seems to get into frequent conflict is because Congo really isn't a viable campaign for Sahara, and Sahara who can be attacked by Quebec, Amazon, Europe, Persia, and Congo really can't afford to commit 6 units to attempt forcing Congo to risk conflict with Amazon or Persia to outflank around the central bottleneck. In my opinion, this creates an incentive for Congo's players to attack Sahara for growth rather than contemplate other targets, and Congo is relatively capable of defending against attacks from Oceania, Persia, and Amazon based on its 5 of 7 choices. I think if Tunisia became part of Algeria, and Acc became a normal province and Niger became the supply
center option Sahara would be much more defensible.
from Sean
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 10:06:40 -0700
Subject: Re: DC399 Congo EGS
From: amtrating(at)gmail.com
To: mjn82(at)yahoo.com
CC: nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com; jerome777(at)ymail.com; gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com; alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com; worldwidegm(at)gmail.com; maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk; sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com; timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com; dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com
Having played both Oceania and Amazon on this map, I can say I'd have done (and have done) pretty much what Jerome did. Africa is just such an inviting target, because Sahara and Congo always seem to fear one another, Sahara has an uneasy border with
Europe, and Congo has to watch out for fleets coming across the Indian Ocean. It is likely they'll be occupied in other directions.
Couple that with the natural Amazon fear that an S/C might develop which could open west so fast he'd have little hope of defending, and I feel like Amazon almost has to move fleets into the Atlantic, which leads to an attack on one or other of the African powers.
Part of it may be that Amazon has to think in terms of having 2 powers to the east that can hurt him - even if one doesn't stab, the other might. So some fleets are needed for defense. But any eastern fleets stoke fears in Congo/Sahara and represent an investment that begs to be used offensively. Add to that the relative difficulty of Oceania/Amazon to attack one another without showing their hand via build center selection, build type, or moves, and I think Amazon is naturally drawn east.
I'm curious though to
see how other players feel about the position.
Does everyone pretty much agree that Oceania is too easily defended? Just for debate, I have to suggest that China is kryptonite to Oceania, and if tension can be reduced between China/Persia and China/Russia then that might balance Oceania.
Maybe eliminate the Arctic from being an immediate concern by moving Vladivostok's SC to Korea?
On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 8:23 AM, Michael Norton <mjn82(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
OK now having received Amazons EGS I have a question for the group. My approach to the A/C border was to give him some latitude so that he felt safe and could move in the other direction, towards Oceania. He took this as an opening instead to go for me. Would you have played it differently, and if so , how? Always nice to learn from others and evolve your game.
Also, anyone headed to Chicago this summer for the world Diplomacy championships??
From: Michael Norton <mjn82(at)yahoo.com>
To: Nick Powell <nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com>; Andrew Tanner <amtrating(at)gmail.com>
Cc: "jerome777(at)ymail.com" <jerome777(at)ymail.com>; dc399 Gino Karczewski China <gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com>; Warren Fleming <alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com>; Worldwide Diplomacy Gamemaster <worldwidegm(at)gmail.com>; dc399 Max Persia <maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk>; dc399 Sean O'Donnell Europe <sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com>; dc399 Tim Crosby Quebec <timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com>; "dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com" <dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com>; "dougray30(at)yahoo.com" <dougray30(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 7:14 AM
Subject: Re:
DC399 Mexico EGS
Congrats again to the winning combo and to an excellent GM,
Well, initially I considered two options. An alliance with Sahara and Oceania or Amazon was option 1. An alliance with both O and A, while attacking Sahara then choosing O or A as my permanent partner was plan B. I went with plan B after watching Sahara's initial moves which I thought were somewhat hostile. I may have misread that , but that was how I interpreted it. So I went with plan B and made two mistakes. One Plan B required some help from Amazon on the African continent, which gave him a foothold. Two, I was way too trusting of Amazon and more suspicious of Oceania so I let my west coast weakly defended. Obviously that was too tempting for Amazon and before I knew it I was stretched a unit or two too thin and in trouble.
I had tried to develop a friendship with Persia early on, hoping a strong Persia would offset the potential I saw in Oceania's position. I felt once he grew as a naval power he would be too tough to dislodge. I got that right but Persia was too busy inland with Russia to help in the Indian Ocean. Eventually that investment in Persia ended up critical to my survival. So maybe I got that right. Warren and I managed to help each other here and there to survive but never really worked well enough to restore any real control of Africa. Good job, balancing Quebec and Amazon Warren.
I think an Arctic sea space would help and perhaps an adjustment in the ocean between Oceania and Amazon. I think the map leads Amazon to head east instead of west but then , perhaps I am biased lol.
Thanks again. I especially enjoyed the initial diplomacy prior to establishing initial unit and center positions. nice touch
Mike
[Reply] |
| dc394 s15 results! - FuzzyLogic (Jun 25, 2012, 5:45 pm) |
Here we go! Lots of action this round as units are dislodged left, right, and all around...The only civilization *not* dislodged are the Elves...
RETREATS! Due Wed 3pm Central. (tho I'll post whenever I have a full set)
Rogue F WEST MIRIANIC OCEAN can retreat to ALL SAINTS BAY.
Rogue F Gelfling can retreat to Florin or NORTH RAINBOW LAKE or ROARING RAPIDS or Marshes of Morva.
Rogue F Terabithia can retreat to Uhl Belk or The Old Gristmill or SAVAGE SEA.
Hobbit A The Neverwood can retreat to Parce Pass.
Dwarf A Nowwhat can retreat to Krikkit or Two Towers or Lindon or Golgafrincham.
Knight F CHURNING REACH can retreat to RAZORS EDGE.
Knight A Hoarluk can retreat to Ancient Necropolis.
Dwarves:
A Fitzgibbon Supports A Knockshegowna - Lubrick
A Horborixen - Uuno (*Bounce*)
A Lankhmar Hold
A Fafhrd, no move received
F Whoville - Hoarluk
A Devils Canyon Supports A Nowwhat - Snow Witch (*Cut*)
A Forbidden City Supports A Devils Canyon
A Nowwhat - Snow Witch (*Dislodged*)
Elves:
F Garthim Supports F THREE RIVER LAKE - Gelfling
F Prekkendorran Hts(nc) Hold
F Myrtle Supports F NORTH RAINBOW LAKE - Terabithia
A Dragon Coast - Great Glacier (*Fails*)
A Silvanesti - Dhunia
F NORTH RAINBOW LAKE - Terabithia
F THREE RIVER LAKE - Gelfling
Hobbits:
A Mordor - Candlekeep
F Riku Supports F GRIEF REEF - Camelittle
A The Neverwood Supports F GRIEF REEF - Camelittle (*Dislodged*)
A Magrathea - Shining Stream
A Candlekeep - Waterdeep
A Shining Stream - Thirsty Desert
A The Wilderland Supports A Nowwhat (*Ordered to Move*)
A Rivendell - Mordor
F The High Way - Rivendell
F GRIEF REEF - Camelittle
F MERMAIDS LAGOON - GRIEF REEF (*Bounce*)
F RIFT CANYON - Endor
F RESTLESS WATERS - RIFT CANYON (*Bounce*)
Knights:
A Tumnus Supports F SUNLESS SEA - Grissel
A Grissel - Calormen
A Mount Nimro Hold
A Newa River Supports A Troldhaugen - Cave of Ordeals
A Wing Hove - Ice Reach
F Arborlon - Grimpen Ward
F Grimpen Ward - MIST MARSH
A Fantastica Supports F Travers Town
F Grimheim - TILVA STRAIT
F Telmar - SUNLESS SEA (*Bounce*)
A Troldhaugen - Cave of Ordeals
F Travers Town Supports A Camelittle - The Neverwood
F Slightly Gulch - GRIEF REEF (*Bounce*)
F Neverpeak Mtn - Camelittle (*Fails*)
A Cathal - Sleepy Hollow
A Ice Reach - Tymwyvenne
A Spiral Castle - Dragons Teeth Mtns
F Dimmsdale Supports F Grimheim - TILVA STRAIT
A Gumdrop Isle - Port Ghaast
A Ivory Tower Supports A Myth Drannor
A Myth Drannor Supports A Dragon Coast - Great Glacier
A Spirit Pond - Yggdrasil
A Dancing Lawn - Aslan
A Owlwood - Troldhaugen (*Bounce*)
A Hoarluk - Uuno (*Dislodged*)
A Eloi - Pans Labyrinth (*Fails*)
A Camelittle - The Neverwood
A Maze of Regrets Supports A Camelittle - The Neverwood
A Groves of Academe Supports A Newa River
A Ranaar - Grimheim
F Daisy Meadows(ec) Supports F Dimmsdale
A Cliffs of Insanity Supports A Gumdrop Isle - Port Ghaast
A Hidden Grotto Supports A Troldhaugen - Cave of Ordeals
A Twisted Tunnels - Devils Canyon (*Fails*)
A Snow Witch Supports A Undermountain - Nowwhat
A Undermountain - Nowwhat
A Venatori Umbrarum Supports A Undermountain - Nowwhat
F CELESTIAL DELTA - BEAVERSDAM (*Fails*)
F SUNLESS SEA - Grissel
F SABLES SWAMP - TROG BOG (*Fails*)
F CHURNING REACH Supports F NORTH MIRIANIC - WEST MIRIANIC (*Dislodged*)
F EAST MIRIANIC OCEAN Supports F NORTH MIRIANIC - WEST MIRIANIC
F NORTH MIRIANIC OCEAN - WEST MIRIANIC OCEAN
F RUGGED COAST - RIFT CANYON (*Bounce*)
Rogues:
F Gelfling Hold (*Dislodged*)
A Knockshegowna - Lubrick
A To-Gai-Ru - Walk of Clouds (*Fails*)
F Pans Labyrinth Supports A The Neverwood (*Cut*)
A The Silver city Supports A Pygmy - Orboros (*Fails*)
F Ashan Supports F TILVA STRAIT - BEAVERSDAM
A Sorrows End - Cave of Ordeals (*Fails*)
F Orboros - SUNLESS SEA (*Bounce*)
F Tuatha - THUNDERHEAD
A Great Glacier Supports A Zhentil Keep (*Cut*)
A Zhentil Keep Supports A Great Glacier
F Terabithia Supports F Tuatha - THUNDERHEAD (*Dislodged*)
F The Julianthes Supports F Port Ghaast - CHURNING REACH
A Cave of Ordeals - Newa River (*Disbanded*)
A Pygmy - Orboros (*Fails*)
F Walk of Clouds - TILVA STRAIT (*Fails*)
A Merrow - Tuatha
A Powry Supports F Whoville - Hoarluk
F Port Ghaast - CHURNING REACH
A Pwyll Supports A Zhentil Keep
F TILVA STRAIT - BEAVERSDAM
F TROG BOG - Troldhaugen (*Bounce*)
F THON THALAS Supports A Cave of Ordeals - Newa River
F HIGH SEAS - GRIEF REEF (*Bounce*)
F WAY THE HECK - HIGH SEAS (*Fails*)
F BIKINI BOTTOM - THE MAW
F ALL SAINTS BAY - ZEBOIMS DEEP
F WEST MIRIANIC Supports F Walk of Clouds - TILVA STRAIT (*Dislodged*)[Reply] |
| Haven philosophy - offdisc (Jun 25, 2012, 3:30 pm) |
If someone sends out email about a game, but doesn't include the game number in the header, is it considered SPAM?
Is the player still held accountable?
Mike
---------
"Sit Long, Talk Much, Laugh Often" -- anon
"Shared Pain is lessened, Shared Joy is increased" --- Spider Robinson
On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 8:48 AM, Michael Sims <mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.com> wrote:
If someone fails to submit moves in a forest... and no one is there to hear it... do their units still hold?
[Reply] |
| dc414 Spring 08 moves - jerome777 (Jun 25, 2012, 3:17 pm) |
Good evening possums,
Here's your Spring 08 moves:
England:
F Brest Supports A Marseilles - Gascony
F Edinburgh - North Sea
F English Channel Supports F Brest
A Livonia Supports A Warsaw
A London Hold
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean Supports F Brest
F Spain(sc) Hold
F St Petersburg(nc) Hold
France:
A Gascony Supports A Paris - Burgundy (*Dislodged*)
A Holland Hold
A Paris - Burgundy
A Picardy - Belgium
Germany:
A Kiel Supports A Munich - Ruhr
A Marseilles - Gascony
A Munich - Ruhr
A Tyrolia Supports A Vienna (*Cut*)
A Ukraine Supports A Sevastopol - Rumania
A Vienna Supports A Galicia - Budapest (*Cut*)
A Warsaw Hold
Italy:
A Budapest Supports A Trieste - Vienna (*Cut*)
A Bulgaria - Constantinople
F Constantinople - Black Sea
F Ionian Sea Convoys A Naples - Greece
A Naples - Greece
A Serbia - Trieste (*Fails*)
F Smyrna Supports A Bulgaria - Constantinople
A Trieste - Vienna (*Fails*)
F Tyrrhenian Sea Supports F Western Mediterranean - Gulf of Lyon
A Venice - Tyrolia (*Fails*)
F Western Mediterranean - Gulf of Lyon
Russia:
A Galicia - Budapest (*Fails*)
A Moscow Supports A Warsaw
A Sevastopol - Rumania
Turkey:
A Ankara Hold
Retreats:
France's Army Gascony can only retreat to Paris, so I've autoadjudicated the retreat. Manolis, if you'd rather retreat it off-the-board, you've 24 hours to let me know.
Autumn 1908 moves are due Monday 2 July please, 2000GMT.
thanks
Jerome
[Reply] |
| DC399 Congo EGS - Sean2010 (Jun 25, 2012, 1:01 pm) |
"Gino Im sorry I had to stab you because it
worked well, but I could see to get into the finishing phase I needed to
grow quick and so.....and Sean- dont ever say 'its over for me', as I
translated that to be 'I give up' which is why I stabbed you at the end."
Thank you for the memory jog, Max. If I recall correctly, you're referring to the point China, you, and I had started to diverge strategically and tactically. I was very confident that the only way to convince Quebec to halt his attack was seek a way for Europe to be useful or to force units to withdrawal or to turn the tables. Unfortunately, China and Mexico were effectively becoming tied at the hip at the time, and you were in position to aid China against Oceania. Without achieving a line or establishing usefulness, or forcing Quebec to reallocate his resources, the best I could accomplish was a survival. With China and Mexico cooperating and I was on the ropes, it really was your best move as it offered you some growth. Quebec and you effectively seemed to have made an effective agreement enabling the 4-way rather than the game ending in a 2-way.
In my opinion, I think that the biggest reason Congo and Sahara seems to get into frequent conflict is because Congo really isn't a viable campaign for Sahara, and Sahara who can be attacked by Quebec, Amazon, Europe, Persia, and Congo really can't afford to commit 6 units to attempt forcing Congo to risk conflict with Amazon or Persia to outflank around the central bottleneck. In my opinion, this creates an incentive for Congo's players to attack Sahara for growth rather than contemplate other targets, and Congo is relatively capable of defending against attacks from Oceania, Persia, and Amazon based on its 5 of 7 choices. I think if Tunisia became part of Algeria, and Acc became a normal province and Niger became the supply center option Sahara would be much more defensible.
from Sean
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 10:06:40 -0700
Subject: Re: DC399 Congo EGS
From: amtrating(at)gmail.com
To: mjn82(at)yahoo.com
CC: nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com; jerome777(at)ymail.com; gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com; alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com; worldwidegm(at)gmail.com; maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk; sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com; timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com; dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com
Having played both Oceania and Amazon on this map, I can say I'd have done (and have done) pretty much what Jerome did. Africa is just such an inviting target, because Sahara and Congo always seem to fear one another, Sahara has an uneasy border with Europe, and Congo has to watch out for fleets coming across the Indian Ocean. It is likely they'll be occupied in other directions.
Couple that with the natural Amazon fear that an S/C might develop which could open west so fast he'd have little hope of defending, and I feel like Amazon almost has to move fleets into the Atlantic, which leads to an attack on one or other of the African powers.
Part of it may be that Amazon has to think in terms of having 2 powers to the east that can hurt him - even if one doesn't stab, the other might. So some fleets are needed for defense. But any eastern fleets stoke fears in Congo/Sahara and represent an investment that begs to be used offensively. Add to that the relative difficulty of Oceania/Amazon to attack one another without showing their hand via build center selection, build type, or moves, and I think Amazon is naturally drawn east.
I'm curious though to see how other players feel about the position.
Does everyone pretty much agree that Oceania is too easily defended? Just for debate, I have to suggest that China is kryptonite to Oceania, and if tension can be reduced between China/Persia and China/Russia then that might balance Oceania.
Maybe eliminate the Arctic from being an immediate concern by moving Vladivostok's SC to Korea?
On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 8:23 AM, Michael Norton <mjn82(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
OK now having received Amazons EGS I have a question for the group. My approach to the A/C border was to give him some latitude so that he felt safe and could move in the other direction, towards Oceania. He took this as an opening instead to go for me. Would you have played it differently, and if so , how? Always nice to learn
from others and evolve your game.
Also, anyone headed to Chicago this summer for the world Diplomacy championships??
From: Michael Norton <mjn82(at)yahoo.com>
To: Nick Powell <nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com>; Andrew Tanner <amtrating(at)gmail.com>
Cc: "jerome777(at)ymail.com" <jerome777(at)ymail.com>; dc399 Gino Karczewski China <gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com>; Warren Fleming <alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com>; Worldwide Diplomacy Gamemaster <worldwidegm(at)gmail.com>; dc399 Max Persia <maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk>; dc399 Sean O'Donnell Europe <sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com>; dc399 Tim Crosby Quebec
<timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com>; "dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com" <dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com>; "dougray30(at)yahoo.com" <dougray30(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 7:14 AM
Subject: Re: DC399 Mexico EGS
Congrats again to the winning combo and to an excellent GM,
Well, initially I considered two options. An alliance with Sahara and Oceania or Amazon was option 1. An alliance with both O and A, while attacking Sahara then choosing O or A as my permanent partner was plan B. I went with plan B after watching Sahara's initial moves which I thought were somewhat hostile. I may have misread that , but that was how I interpreted it. So I went with plan B and made two mistakes. One Plan B required some help from Amazon on the African continent, which gave him a foothold. Two, I was way too trusting of Amazon and more suspicious of Oceania so I let my west coast weakly defended. Obviously that was too tempting for Amazon and before I knew it I was stretched a unit or two too thin and in trouble.
I had tried to develop a friendship with Persia early on, hoping a strong Persia would offset the potential I saw in Oceania's position. I felt once he grew as a naval power he would be too tough to dislodge. I got that right but Persia was too busy inland with Russia to help in the Indian Ocean. Eventually that investment in Persia ended up critical to my survival. So maybe I got that right. Warren and I managed to help each other here and there to survive but never really worked well enough to restore any real control of Africa. Good job, balancing Quebec and Amazon Warren.
I think an Arctic sea space would help and perhaps an adjustment in the ocean between Oceania and Amazon. I think the map leads Amazon to head east instead of west but then , perhaps I am biased lol.
Thanks again. I especially enjoyed the initial diplomacy prior to establishing initial unit and center positions. nice touch
Mike
[Reply] |
| DC399 Congo EGS - AMT (Jun 25, 2012, 12:06 pm) |
Having played both Oceania and Amazon on this map, I can say I'd have done (and have done) pretty much what Jerome did. Africa is just such an inviting target, because Sahara and Congo always seem to fear one another, Sahara has an uneasy border with Europe, and Congo has to watch out for fleets coming across the Indian Ocean. It is likely they'll be occupied in other directions.
Couple that with the natural Amazon fear that an S/C might develop which could open west so fast he'd have little hope of defending, and I feel like Amazon almost has to move fleets into the Atlantic, which leads to an attack on one or other of the African powers.
Part of it may be that Amazon has to think in terms of having 2 powers to the east that can hurt him - even if one doesn't stab, the other might. So some fleets are needed for defense. But any eastern fleets stoke fears in Congo/Sahara and represent an investment that begs to be used offensively. Add to that the relative difficulty of Oceania/Amazon to attack one another without showing their hand via build center selection, build type, or moves, and I think Amazon is naturally drawn east.
I'm curious though to see how other players feel about the position.
Does everyone pretty much agree that Oceania is too easily defended? Just for debate, I have to suggest that China is kryptonite to Oceania, and if tension can be reduced between China/Persia and China/Russia then that might balance Oceania.
Maybe eliminate the Arctic from being an immediate concern by moving Vladivostok's SC to Korea?
On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 8:23 AM, Michael Norton <mjn82(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
OK now having received Amazons EGS I have a question for the group. My approach to the A/C border was to give him some latitude so that he felt safe and could move in the other direction, towards Oceania. He took this as an opening instead to go for me. Would you have played it differently, and if so , how? Always nice to learn
from others and evolve your game.
Also, anyone headed to Chicago this summer for the world Diplomacy championships??
From: Michael Norton <mjn82(at)yahoo.com>
To: Nick Powell <nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com>; Andrew Tanner <amtrating(at)gmail.com>
Cc: "jerome777(at)ymail.com" <jerome777(at)ymail.com>; dc399 Gino Karczewski China <gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com>; Warren Fleming <alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com>; Worldwide Diplomacy Gamemaster <worldwidegm(at)gmail.com>; dc399 Max Persia <maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk>; dc399 Sean O'Donnell Europe <sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com>; dc399 Tim Crosby Quebec
<timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com>; "dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com" <dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com>; "dougray30(at)yahoo.com" <dougray30(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 7:14 AM
Subject: Re: DC399 Mexico EGS
Congrats again to the winning combo and to an excellent GM,
Well, initially I considered two options. An alliance with Sahara and Oceania or Amazon was option 1. An alliance with both O and A, while attacking Sahara then choosing O or A as my permanent partner was plan B. I went with plan B after watching Sahara's initial moves which I thought were somewhat hostile. I may have misread that , but that was how I interpreted it. So I went with plan B and made two mistakes. One Plan B required some help from Amazon on the African continent, which gave him a foothold. Two, I was way too trusting of Amazon and more suspicious of Oceania so I let my west coast weakly defended. Obviously that was too tempting for Amazon and before I knew it I was stretched a unit or two too thin and in trouble.
I had tried to develop a friendship with Persia early on, hoping a strong Persia would offset the potential I saw in Oceania's position. I felt once he grew as a naval power he would be too tough to dislodge. I got that right but Persia was too busy inland with Russia to help in the Indian Ocean. Eventually that investment in Persia ended up critical to my survival. So maybe I got that right. Warren and I managed to help each other here and there to survive but never really worked well enough to restore any real control of Africa. Good job, balancing Quebec and Amazon Warren.
I think an Arctic sea space would help and perhaps an adjustment in the ocean between Oceania and Amazon. I think the map leads Amazon to head east instead of west but then , perhaps I am biased lol.
Thanks again. I especially enjoyed the initial diplomacy prior to establishing initial unit and center positions. nice touch
Mike
[Reply] |
| Haven philosophy - sandiegosmith (Jun 25, 2012, 10:45 am) |
They have fallen asleep on their swords awaiting the kind touch of a foreign prince.
Subject: Haven philosophy
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 09:48:59 -0500
From: mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.com
To: mvpenner(at)yahoo.com; baz.dip(at)gmail.com; dipcorp.player(at)gmail.com; diplomacy(at)diffell.net; chaosonejoe(at)yahoo.com; welsh_stroud(at)msn.com; kielmarch(at)hotmail.com; dan.i.sinensky(at)gmail.com; jerome777(at)ymail.com; jfburgess(at)gmail.com; wealllovekatamari(at)yahoo.com; mjn82(at)yahoo.com; mrh(at)panix.com; sandiegosmith(at)hotmail.com; Spinozas(at)gmx.net; kingkovas(at)gmail.com; clockheardt(at)yahoo.com; tiga124(at)aol.com; tomahaha(at)frontiernet.net
CC: dc394(at)diplomaticcorp.com
If someone fails to submit moves in a forest... and no one is there to hear it... do their units still hold?
[Reply] |
| DC399 Congo EGS - mjn82 (Jun 25, 2012, 10:23 am) |
OK now having received Amazons EGS I have a question for the group. My approach to the A/C border was to give him some latitude so that he felt safe and could move in the other direction, towards Oceania. He took this as an opening instead to go for me. Would you have played it differently, and if so , how? Always nice to learn
from others and evolve your game.
Also, anyone headed to Chicago this summer for the world Diplomacy championships??
From: Michael Norton <mjn82(at)yahoo.com>
To: Nick Powell <nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com>; Andrew Tanner <amtrating(at)gmail.com>
Cc: "jerome777(at)ymail.com" <jerome777(at)ymail.com>; dc399 Gino Karczewski China <gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com>; Warren Fleming <alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com>; Worldwide Diplomacy Gamemaster <worldwidegm(at)gmail.com>; dc399 Max Persia <maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk>; dc399 Sean O'Donnell Europe <sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com>; dc399 Tim Crosby Quebec
<timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com>; "dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com" <dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com>; "dougray30(at)yahoo.com" <dougray30(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 7:14 AM
Subject: Re: DC399 Mexico EGS
Congrats again to the winning combo and to an excellent GM,
Well, initially I considered two options. An alliance with Sahara and Oceania or Amazon was option 1. An alliance with both O and A, while attacking Sahara then choosing O or A as my permanent partner was plan B. I went with plan B after watching Sahara's initial moves which I thought were somewhat hostile. I may have misread that , but that was how I interpreted it. So I went with plan B and made two mistakes. One Plan B required some help from Amazon on the African continent, which gave him a foothold. Two, I was way too trusting of Amazon and more suspicious of Oceania so I let my west coast weakly defended. Obviously that was too tempting for Amazon and before I knew it I was stretched a unit or two too thin and in trouble.
I had tried to develop a friendship with Persia early on, hoping a strong Persia would offset the potential I saw in Oceania's position. I felt once he grew as a naval power he would be too tough to dislodge. I got that right but Persia was too busy inland with Russia to help in the Indian Ocean. Eventually that investment in Persia ended up critical to my survival. So maybe I got that right. Warren and I managed to help each other here and there to survive but never really worked well enough to restore any real control of Africa. Good job, balancing Quebec and Amazon Warren.
I think an Arctic sea space would help and perhaps an adjustment in the ocean between Oceania and Amazon. I think the map leads Amazon to head east instead of west but then , perhaps I am biased lol.
Thanks again. I especially enjoyed the initial diplomacy prior to establishing initial unit and center positions. nice touch
Mike
[Reply] |
| DC399 Congo EGS (dc399) AMT Jun 25, 12:06 pm |
Having played both Oceania and Amazon on this map, I can say I'd have done (and have done) pretty much what Jerome did. Africa is just such an inviting target, because Sahara and Congo always seem to fear one another, Sahara has an uneasy border with Europe, and Congo has to watch out for fleets coming across the Indian Ocean. It is likely they'll be occupied in other directions.
Couple that with the natural Amazon fear that an S/C might develop which could open west so fast he'd have little hope of defending, and I feel like Amazon almost has to move fleets into the Atlantic, which leads to an attack on one or other of the African powers.
Part of it may be that Amazon has to think in terms of having 2 powers to the east that can hurt him - even if one doesn't stab, the other might. So some fleets are needed for defense. But any eastern fleets stoke fears in Congo/Sahara and represent an investment that begs to be used offensively. Add to that the relative difficulty of Oceania/Amazon to attack one another without showing their hand via build center selection, build type, or moves, and I think Amazon is naturally drawn east.
I'm curious though to see how other players feel about the position.
Does everyone pretty much agree that Oceania is too easily defended? Just for debate, I have to suggest that China is kryptonite to Oceania, and if tension can be reduced between China/Persia and China/Russia then that might balance Oceania.
Maybe eliminate the Arctic from being an immediate concern by moving Vladivostok's SC to Korea?
On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 8:23 AM, Michael Norton <mjn82(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
OK now having received Amazons EGS I have a question for the group. My approach to the A/C border was to give him some latitude so that he felt safe and could move in the other direction, towards Oceania. He took this as an opening instead to go for me. Would you have played it differently, and if so , how? Always nice to learn
from others and evolve your game.
Also, anyone headed to Chicago this summer for the world Diplomacy championships??
From: Michael Norton <mjn82(at)yahoo.com>
To: Nick Powell <nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com>; Andrew Tanner <amtrating(at)gmail.com>
Cc: "jerome777(at)ymail.com" <jerome777(at)ymail.com>; dc399 Gino Karczewski China <gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com>; Warren Fleming <alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com>; Worldwide Diplomacy Gamemaster <worldwidegm(at)gmail.com>; dc399 Max Persia <maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk>; dc399 Sean O'Donnell Europe <sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com>; dc399 Tim Crosby Quebec
<timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com>; "dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com" <dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com>; "dougray30(at)yahoo.com" <dougray30(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 7:14 AM
Subject: Re: DC399 Mexico EGS
Congrats again to the winning combo and to an excellent GM,
Well, initially I considered two options. An alliance with Sahara and Oceania or Amazon was option 1. An alliance with both O and A, while attacking Sahara then choosing O or A as my permanent partner was plan B. I went with plan B after watching Sahara's initial moves which I thought were somewhat hostile. I may have misread that , but that was how I interpreted it. So I went with plan B and made two mistakes. One Plan B required some help from Amazon on the African continent, which gave him a foothold. Two, I was way too trusting of Amazon and more suspicious of Oceania so I let my west coast weakly defended. Obviously that was too tempting for Amazon and before I knew it I was stretched a unit or two too thin and in trouble.
I had tried to develop a friendship with Persia early on, hoping a strong Persia would offset the potential I saw in Oceania's position. I felt once he grew as a naval power he would be too tough to dislodge. I got that right but Persia was too busy inland with Russia to help in the Indian Ocean. Eventually that investment in Persia ended up critical to my survival. So maybe I got that right. Warren and I managed to help each other here and there to survive but never really worked well enough to restore any real control of Africa. Good job, balancing Quebec and Amazon Warren.
I think an Arctic sea space would help and perhaps an adjustment in the ocean between Oceania and Amazon. I think the map leads Amazon to head east instead of west but then , perhaps I am biased lol.
Thanks again. I especially enjoyed the initial diplomacy prior to establishing initial unit and center positions. nice touch
Mike
|
| DC399 Congo EGS (dc399) Sean2010 Jun 25, 01:01 pm |
"Gino Im sorry I had to stab you because it
worked well, but I could see to get into the finishing phase I needed to
grow quick and so.....and Sean- dont ever say 'its over for me', as I
translated that to be 'I give up' which is why I stabbed you at the end."
Thank you for the memory jog, Max. If I recall correctly, you're referring to the point China, you, and I had started to diverge strategically and tactically. I was very confident that the only way to convince Quebec to halt his attack was seek a way for Europe to be useful or to force units to withdrawal or to turn the tables. Unfortunately, China and Mexico were effectively becoming tied at the hip at the time, and you were in position to aid China against Oceania. Without achieving a line or establishing usefulness, or forcing Quebec to reallocate his resources, the best I could accomplish was a survival. With China and Mexico cooperating and I was on the ropes, it really was your best move as it offered you some growth. Quebec and you effectively seemed to have made an effective agreement enabling the 4-way rather than the game ending in a 2-way.
In my opinion, I think that the biggest reason Congo and Sahara seems to get into frequent conflict is because Congo really isn't a viable campaign for Sahara, and Sahara who can be attacked by Quebec, Amazon, Europe, Persia, and Congo really can't afford to commit 6 units to attempt forcing Congo to risk conflict with Amazon or Persia to outflank around the central bottleneck. In my opinion, this creates an incentive for Congo's players to attack Sahara for growth rather than contemplate other targets, and Congo is relatively capable of defending against attacks from Oceania, Persia, and Amazon based on its 5 of 7 choices. I think if Tunisia became part of Algeria, and Acc became a normal province and Niger became the supply center option Sahara would be much more defensible.
from Sean
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 10:06:40 -0700
Subject: Re: DC399 Congo EGS
From: amtrating(at)gmail.com
To: mjn82(at)yahoo.com
CC: nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com; jerome777(at)ymail.com; gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com; alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com; worldwidegm(at)gmail.com; maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk; sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com; timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com; dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com
Having played both Oceania and Amazon on this map, I can say I'd have done (and have done) pretty much what Jerome did. Africa is just such an inviting target, because Sahara and Congo always seem to fear one another, Sahara has an uneasy border with Europe, and Congo has to watch out for fleets coming across the Indian Ocean. It is likely they'll be occupied in other directions.
Couple that with the natural Amazon fear that an S/C might develop which could open west so fast he'd have little hope of defending, and I feel like Amazon almost has to move fleets into the Atlantic, which leads to an attack on one or other of the African powers.
Part of it may be that Amazon has to think in terms of having 2 powers to the east that can hurt him - even if one doesn't stab, the other might. So some fleets are needed for defense. But any eastern fleets stoke fears in Congo/Sahara and represent an investment that begs to be used offensively. Add to that the relative difficulty of Oceania/Amazon to attack one another without showing their hand via build center selection, build type, or moves, and I think Amazon is naturally drawn east.
I'm curious though to see how other players feel about the position.
Does everyone pretty much agree that Oceania is too easily defended? Just for debate, I have to suggest that China is kryptonite to Oceania, and if tension can be reduced between China/Persia and China/Russia then that might balance Oceania.
Maybe eliminate the Arctic from being an immediate concern by moving Vladivostok's SC to Korea?
On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 8:23 AM, Michael Norton <mjn82(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
OK now having received Amazons EGS I have a question for the group. My approach to the A/C border was to give him some latitude so that he felt safe and could move in the other direction, towards Oceania. He took this as an opening instead to go for me. Would you have played it differently, and if so , how? Always nice to learn
from others and evolve your game.
Also, anyone headed to Chicago this summer for the world Diplomacy championships??
From: Michael Norton <mjn82(at)yahoo.com>
To: Nick Powell <nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com>; Andrew Tanner <amtrating(at)gmail.com>
Cc: "jerome777(at)ymail.com" <jerome777(at)ymail.com>; dc399 Gino Karczewski China <gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com>; Warren Fleming <alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com>; Worldwide Diplomacy Gamemaster <worldwidegm(at)gmail.com>; dc399 Max Persia <maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk>; dc399 Sean O'Donnell Europe <sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com>; dc399 Tim Crosby Quebec
<timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com>; "dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com" <dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com>; "dougray30(at)yahoo.com" <dougray30(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 7:14 AM
Subject: Re: DC399 Mexico EGS
Congrats again to the winning combo and to an excellent GM,
Well, initially I considered two options. An alliance with Sahara and Oceania or Amazon was option 1. An alliance with both O and A, while attacking Sahara then choosing O or A as my permanent partner was plan B. I went with plan B after watching Sahara's initial moves which I thought were somewhat hostile. I may have misread that , but that was how I interpreted it. So I went with plan B and made two mistakes. One Plan B required some help from Amazon on the African continent, which gave him a foothold. Two, I was way too trusting of Amazon and more suspicious of Oceania so I let my west coast weakly defended. Obviously that was too tempting for Amazon and before I knew it I was stretched a unit or two too thin and in trouble.
I had tried to develop a friendship with Persia early on, hoping a strong Persia would offset the potential I saw in Oceania's position. I felt once he grew as a naval power he would be too tough to dislodge. I got that right but Persia was too busy inland with Russia to help in the Indian Ocean. Eventually that investment in Persia ended up critical to my survival. So maybe I got that right. Warren and I managed to help each other here and there to survive but never really worked well enough to restore any real control of Africa. Good job, balancing Quebec and Amazon Warren.
I think an Arctic sea space would help and perhaps an adjustment in the ocean between Oceania and Amazon. I think the map leads Amazon to head east instead of west but then , perhaps I am biased lol.
Thanks again. I especially enjoyed the initial diplomacy prior to establishing initial unit and center positions. nice touch
Mike
|
| DC399 Congo EGS (dc399) pieandmash Jun 26, 09:03 am |
Im not smart enough clearly!
From: Sean O'Donnell <sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com>
To: Andrew Tanner <amtrating(at)gmail.com>; Michael Norton mjn82 DC <mjn82(at)yahoo.com>
Cc: Nick Powell DrSwordopolis DC <nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com>; Jerome Payne DC jerome777 <jerome777(at)ymail.com>; Gino Karczewski <gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com>; Warren Fleming alwayshunted DC <alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com>; Viper Michael Penner GM <worldwidegm(at)gmail.com>; max victory <maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk>; Tim Crosby 2
<timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com>; dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com; Douglas 2 <dougray30(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, 25 June 2012, 19:01
Subject: RE: DC399 Congo EGS
"Gino Im sorry I had to stab you because it worked well, but I could see to get into the finishing phase I needed to grow quick and so.....and Sean- dont ever say 'its over for me', as I translated that to be 'I give up' which is why I stabbed you at the end."
Thank you for the memory jog, Max. If I recall correctly, you're referring to the point China, you, and I had started to diverge strategically and tactically. I was very confident that the only way to convince Quebec to halt his attack was seek a way for Europe to be useful or to force units to withdrawal or to turn the tables. Unfortunately, China and Mexico were effectively becoming tied at the hip at the time, and you were in position to aid China against Oceania. Without achieving a line or establishing usefulness, or forcing Quebec to reallocate his resources, the best I could accomplish was a survival. With China and Mexico
cooperating and I was on the ropes, it really was your best move as it offered you some growth. Quebec and you effectively seemed to have made an effective agreement enabling the 4-way rather than the game ending in a 2-way.
In my opinion, I think that the biggest reason Congo and Sahara seems to get into frequent conflict is because Congo really isn't a viable campaign for Sahara, and Sahara who can be attacked by Quebec, Amazon, Europe, Persia, and Congo really can't afford to commit 6 units to attempt forcing Congo to risk conflict with Amazon or Persia to outflank around the central bottleneck. In my opinion, this creates an incentive for Congo's players to attack Sahara for growth rather than contemplate other targets, and Congo is relatively capable of defending against attacks from Oceania, Persia, and Amazon based on its 5 of 7 choices. I think if Tunisia became part of Algeria, and Acc became a normal province and Niger became the supply
center option Sahara would be much more defensible.
from Sean
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 10:06:40 -0700
Subject: Re: DC399 Congo EGS
From: amtrating(at)gmail.com
To: mjn82(at)yahoo.com
CC: nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com; jerome777(at)ymail.com; gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com; alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com; worldwidegm(at)gmail.com; maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk; sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com; timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com; dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com
Having played both Oceania and Amazon on this map, I can say I'd have done (and have done) pretty much what Jerome did. Africa is just such an inviting target, because Sahara and Congo always seem to fear one another, Sahara has an uneasy border with
Europe, and Congo has to watch out for fleets coming across the Indian Ocean. It is likely they'll be occupied in other directions.
Couple that with the natural Amazon fear that an S/C might develop which could open west so fast he'd have little hope of defending, and I feel like Amazon almost has to move fleets into the Atlantic, which leads to an attack on one or other of the African powers.
Part of it may be that Amazon has to think in terms of having 2 powers to the east that can hurt him - even if one doesn't stab, the other might. So some fleets are needed for defense. But any eastern fleets stoke fears in Congo/Sahara and represent an investment that begs to be used offensively. Add to that the relative difficulty of Oceania/Amazon to attack one another without showing their hand via build center selection, build type, or moves, and I think Amazon is naturally drawn east.
I'm curious though to
see how other players feel about the position.
Does everyone pretty much agree that Oceania is too easily defended? Just for debate, I have to suggest that China is kryptonite to Oceania, and if tension can be reduced between China/Persia and China/Russia then that might balance Oceania.
Maybe eliminate the Arctic from being an immediate concern by moving Vladivostok's SC to Korea?
On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 8:23 AM, Michael Norton <mjn82(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
OK now having received Amazons EGS I have a question for the group. My approach to the A/C border was to give him some latitude so that he felt safe and could move in the other direction, towards Oceania. He took this as an opening instead to go for me. Would you have played it differently, and if so , how? Always nice to learn from others and evolve your game.
Also, anyone headed to Chicago this summer for the world Diplomacy championships??
From: Michael Norton <mjn82(at)yahoo.com>
To: Nick Powell <nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com>; Andrew Tanner <amtrating(at)gmail.com>
Cc: "jerome777(at)ymail.com" <jerome777(at)ymail.com>; dc399 Gino Karczewski China <gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com>; Warren Fleming <alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com>; Worldwide Diplomacy Gamemaster <worldwidegm(at)gmail.com>; dc399 Max Persia <maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk>; dc399 Sean O'Donnell Europe <sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com>; dc399 Tim Crosby Quebec <timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com>; "dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com" <dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com>; "dougray30(at)yahoo.com" <dougray30(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 7:14 AM
Subject: Re:
DC399 Mexico EGS
Congrats again to the winning combo and to an excellent GM,
Well, initially I considered two options. An alliance with Sahara and Oceania or Amazon was option 1. An alliance with both O and A, while attacking Sahara then choosing O or A as my permanent partner was plan B. I went with plan B after watching Sahara's initial moves which I thought were somewhat hostile. I may have misread that , but that was how I interpreted it. So I went with plan B and made two mistakes. One Plan B required some help from Amazon on the African continent, which gave him a foothold. Two, I was way too trusting of Amazon and more suspicious of Oceania so I let my west coast weakly defended. Obviously that was too tempting for Amazon and before I knew it I was stretched a unit or two too thin and in trouble.
I had tried to develop a friendship with Persia early on, hoping a strong Persia would offset the potential I saw in Oceania's position. I felt once he grew as a naval power he would be too tough to dislodge. I got that right but Persia was too busy inland with Russia to help in the Indian Ocean. Eventually that investment in Persia ended up critical to my survival. So maybe I got that right. Warren and I managed to help each other here and there to survive but never really worked well enough to restore any real control of Africa. Good job, balancing Quebec and Amazon Warren.
I think an Arctic sea space would help and perhaps an adjustment in the ocean between Oceania and Amazon. I think the map leads Amazon to head east instead of west but then , perhaps I am biased lol.
Thanks again. I especially enjoyed the initial diplomacy prior to establishing initial unit and center positions. nice touch
Mike
|
| Haven philosophy - FuzzyLogic (Jun 25, 2012, 9:48 am) |
If someone fails to submit moves in a forest... and no one is there to hear it... do their units still hold?
[Reply] |
| Haven philosophy (dc394) sandiegosmith Jun 25, 10:45 am |
They have fallen asleep on their swords awaiting the kind touch of a foreign prince.
Subject: Haven philosophy
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 09:48:59 -0500
From: mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.com
To: mvpenner(at)yahoo.com; baz.dip(at)gmail.com; dipcorp.player(at)gmail.com; diplomacy(at)diffell.net; chaosonejoe(at)yahoo.com; welsh_stroud(at)msn.com; kielmarch(at)hotmail.com; dan.i.sinensky(at)gmail.com; jerome777(at)ymail.com; jfburgess(at)gmail.com; wealllovekatamari(at)yahoo.com; mjn82(at)yahoo.com; mrh(at)panix.com; sandiegosmith(at)hotmail.com; Spinozas(at)gmx.net; kingkovas(at)gmail.com; clockheardt(at)yahoo.com; tiga124(at)aol.com; tomahaha(at)frontiernet.net
CC: dc394(at)diplomaticcorp.com
If someone fails to submit moves in a forest... and no one is there to hear it... do their units still hold?
|
| Haven philosophy (dc394) offdisc Jun 25, 03:30 pm |
If someone sends out email about a game, but doesn't include the game number in the header, is it considered SPAM?
Is the player still held accountable?
Mike
---------
"Sit Long, Talk Much, Laugh Often" -- anon
"Shared Pain is lessened, Shared Joy is increased" --- Spider Robinson
On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 8:48 AM, Michael Sims <mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.com> wrote:
If someone fails to submit moves in a forest... and no one is there to hear it... do their units still hold?
|
| DC399 Amazon EGS - DrSwordopolis (Jun 25, 2012, 9:26 am) |
To be fair Jerome, I was ignoring everyone at that point. You might have been the most crucially important person to respond to, but rest assured, your treatment wasn't special. I was just wasn't being a very good Dipper at that point. First came procrastination, and then came giving up entirely.
On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 4:43 AM, Jerome Payne <jerome777(at)ymail.com> wrote:
Hi everyone,
Thanks again to Mike for GMing, and thanks again to you all for playing.
I started this game with the intention of trying to find one front for expansion, and two fronts to defend. Congo failed to build and west-coast fleets, and Sahara was talked into not moving to ASC in the first turn - that kind of made it obvious that Africa should be the area for my offensive drive, and additionally Sahara and Congo seemed not to trust one another at all, making it possible for me to play them off against one another.
Meanwhile I was happy to 'sit pat' and defend to my north and east, and await developments. Quebec and I had a good understanding, so I decided to put minimal defensive forces into the Pacific zone, and see where developments took me with Oceania and Mexico.
Andrew proved to be an excellent ally, willing to discuss compromises, bounce moves off of me, make 'devil's advocate' move suggestions for me, and respond reasonably quickly to messages sent.
Nick, for whatever reason, was almost completely silent to me all game. Despite my sending several unanswered messages to him, I got no response - yet it seemed he was in reasonably regular comms with Tim. I still don't know what I did to deserve such treatment from an 'ally', but from the turn of this calendar year it was only a matter of time before Andrew and I broke him down.
Tim and I had a good 'info-sharing' alliance up to the mid-game, though I'd not asked him to do anything for me until that point. But then once his breakthrough against Europe came, I asked for help in taking Mexico City, and despite promising to help me in Tim chose not to, instead taking three builds that turn and putting a fleet into Havana. From that point onwards I committed fully to my ally in Andrew, and began cultivating an alliance with Warren to counterbalance Quebec's European power.
Pretty soon it seemed the game was heading for a stalemate, and the fun seemed to have gone from the game for most other players, and so despite being keen to pursue the AO two-way I decided that voting for the four-way would be an acceptable alternative to me.
Map:
I echo the comments of others calling for a 'southern ocean' to mirror Arctic, bordering Bue, Joh, Mel and south-island of NZ. You could also consider making the Pacific a little 'narrower' to enhance contact and controversy between China-Mexico and Amazon-Oceania. Having said that, I think the map is awesome and good fun to play!
Best of wishes to everyone,
Jerome
Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphoneFrom: Nick Powell <nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2012 21:56:07 -0230To: Andrew Tanner<amtrating(at)gmail.com>Cc: <jerome777(at)ymail.com>; dc399 Congo Mike Norton<mjn82(at)yahoo.com>; dc399 Gino Karczewski China<gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com>; Warren Fleming<alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com>; Worldwide Diplomacy Gamemaster<worldwidegm(at)gmail.com>; dc399 Max Persia<maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk>; dc399 Sean O'Donnell Europe<sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com>; dc399 Tim Crosby Quebec<timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com>; dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com<dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com>; dougray30(at)yahoo.com<dougray30(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: DC399 Mexico EGS
Hi all,
This was a tricky game for me, because it came at a time in my life when I really shouldn't have been playing Diplomacy at all. I moved twice in December, again briefly in April, and then all the way across the country from BC to Newfoundland at the beginning of May. This came with multiple computer outages, moving related and otherwise. Perhaps I should have dropped out and asked for a replacement, but that's not how I roll. Regardless, once I fell behind on my diplomacy and my game started to be impaired as a result, I lost interest in the game quickly and that little snowball started becoming a very big boulder indeed...
My initial plan, from analysing the map and the SC breakdown, was for a naval assault against China or Oceania as part of an American Triple. Tim in Quebec said he was entirely on board with this, and Jerome indicated as well initially but it remains to be seen if his heart was in it or not. Maybe he never planned on sticking with me for long and was always with Oceania, or maybe it was simply my total silence that flicked his paranoia switch and moved him to the other side. Regardless, the plan became for me to push west, Tim and Jerome east, and for Jerome and I to supply an extremely valuable fleet into the other front. Arctic, for me, and as a bulwark against Oceania for Jerome. I noted very early the importance of snagging key ocean spaces because of the difficulty involved in being dislodged from them, and also the very poor prospects for an American continental war. So I went all in early on fleets rather than choosing to hedge my bets, and decided to make an early gambit attack on Oceania, hoping he'd think it too crazy a prospect to defend against it too heartily. Why? I knew Tim and Sean from previous games - Tim a solid ally and very capable player (who has done very well, and better than me, every time we've played together) and I figured I could string Sean along and get intel from him to help Tim to ensure my ally credentials. I was hoping Eurasia would stagnate while I pushed through with brilliant early victory in the seas. To make this work best I'd have to have a backdoor late-game alliance planned with Persia or one of the African powers, but much to my disfortune, I didn't contact any of them until much too late in the game. All the laziness and outside life factors. In Asia, Gino struck me as paranoid and potentially erratic like many a new player, so I didn't want to get involved in a long war against him without overwhelming help. Andrew in Ocenia on the other hand, struck me immediately as a very competent, very dangerous neighbour so I resolved to embark on a high risk, high reward war against him. If I could use my early moves to get a fleet behind his lines, I'd have the leverage to break him open. But that didn't work - no help from Amazon, no trust from China, not duplicitous enough against Oceania, too silent with other players... and the rest is history. This did lead to an interesting debate with Tim about who one should attack first that exposed our very different Diplomacy philosophies. I favour attacking the strong, helping the weak, ensuring a balance of power and focusing on the biggest threats early, and he a more traditional approach. Good discussion.
I started going dark, Amazon betrayed me to little surprise, and I focused on the long haul of survival. I knew I could form a line, even with Hawaii, that with Quebec's help I would be able to hold them off with indefinitely, which I think may have taken them a while to fully understand, and I used my tactical prowess (hah) to my best ability. This went on well for a while, as I more and more lost all interest in the game. I would have been very happy to continue this position and indirectly give Quebec a solid solo shot. Then Tim stabbed me and I decided to do all in my power to injure him. I knew the balance of power around my centers would mean that A\O and Q might mutually keep each other out, so I decided to be predictably unorthodox and just frustrate Tim's pace in the far north. And then after that, I was doomed, so I moved to piss him off some more. Hah!
The draws came and went. And I was eliminated. I HOPE that the time of the draw's passing was just that everyone had decided it was over, but I know this game had become entirely fixed and unfun for most of its players, and that it wasn't a move to secure a couple extra ranking points by extending the game one turn to ensure a few centre's extinction. That's fine for a tournament game, but a bit of a dick move otherwise.
As for the variant, I largely enjoyed it. This map appealed to me initially because it's a global game that isn't broken down into tons of small theaters of war. Each centre is not far away from any other and so there is a great need to diplome with the whole world. As for the map, it's been a long time since I've thought about it. It does occur to me that Oceania and the 3 Western hemisphere powers are much better defensively than the rest, with seemingly as good offensive capabilities but I don't know if that's true or not.
Anyways, thanks for the game even if I wished it ended months ago,
-Nick, from an islet in James' Bay
On Sun, Jun 24, 2012 at 5:40 PM, Andrew Tanner <amtrating(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Hey all, EGS as promised:
Well, this has been my second game on the worldwide variant, and have to say Mike that I feel like you've done a great job opening up the possibilities on this version. My opening strategy was very different than when I played Amazon/South America before. The Arctic opening influenced my moves even though I was at the other side of the map, because it immediately had half the players immediately concerned about the space.
I immediately felt like Congo,Amazon, and Oceania were part of a triple that needed to go to 2 as soon as possible. If 2 of us took out the third, and then stayed well away from one another's home centers, we'd forge a 2-way alliance with each of us becoming effectively corner powers. Of the two, Jerome in Amazon seemed the most on board, and willing to discuss moves. My success in this game is almost entirely due to his good faith and willingness to collaborate while resisting the urge to stab when I was vulnerable. For example, when Mexico pushed southwest, had Amazon joined in with a couple strong moves I'd have lost all my southern centers. He did not, and I was able to slowly and surely expand.
We decided on a strategy of containing Mexico while cooperating in Africa to eliminate our opposition there. I negotiated peaceful relations with both Persia and China, and Amazon helped me push Mexico back to the eastern Pacific while I helped Jerome take some Congoese centers. When I was in a good enough position, I attacked and seized some African centers for myself, and Congo was eliminated as a threat. At this point, my attention turned to the Pacific. I moved to establish a stalemate with Persia and went after Gino's China.
My choice of targets at this point was pretty much chosen by who was most willing to actively discuss moves. I was concerned about a stab from Amazon, but he had been honest so far and I figured it would take some time to set up an effective stab, so I'd have some indications. China had taken what of Russia he wanted, and it appeared that Persia was planning to stab him. Mexico was stalemated, but too far to garner any gains too quickly. So pretty much by process of elimination I chose to move on China. Slow going, but I made progress, and kept pace with Amazon.
From there things proceeded fairly mechanically. Quebec's apparent path to growth through Europe and Sahara began to worry Amazon and I; we feared he might be able to run for a solo by saving Mexico's centers for last. We decided to jointly go after Mexico to prevent this, and bolster our own position. And so the both of us marched North, collecting centers as we went. It was a long slog through China's naturally strong defenses, but I managed to do some damage and force some key disbands. Pretty much the same story in North America.
Then the endgame - a Persia/Quebec was suspected, and I proposed a 3 way draw excluding Persia to try and make it look like Quebec was planning to stab Persia with our help. Whether that had any effect or not, about that time Persia and Quebec started to get hostile around their borders. I made some key moves to surround Persia and lock his armies into place, then planned to push into the Arctic to outflank him. I think Amazon planned the same for Quebec. We both supported a 4 way draw publicly, and I know I at least voted for it each time it came up, but planned to keep improving our respective positions until it passed or we were strong enough for force a 2-way draw.
Probably the main reason we didn't push for a 2 way draw was concern that the other would make faster progress and solo. We'd spoken before about racing to a solo without attacking one another, and though I was becoming sorely tempted by the thought of snagging some of his centers after I had turned Persia's flank, I preferred to avoid the risk and walk away as the joint SC leader in a 4-way draw.
Great game you guys, and thanks Mike for GMing!
Now map comments:
I really like how this map is shaping up. I still feel like Oceania is too hard to attack, and exploited that throughout the game. I calculated that with 7 units and one ally I could make myself safe indefinitely. 11-12 units and no ally would make me effectively impregnable to attack if I had the right centers. The relatively few mid-ocean spaces makes stalemates fairly easy, as was seen in the Atlantic and Indian. As a predominantly naval power (unless I wanted to bring down a joint China-Persia assault, armies in Bangkok and Jakarta were not a good idea till later) Oceania can fairly easily make any attack unprofitable to the medium term.
Contrast this with Russia, who - especially with Arctic open - isn't safe anywhere. The geography of a worldwide map makes Oceania a very safe position. Amazon is likewise very safe. The map does a great job of allowing corner type powers avenues of expansion against neighbors who usually have more fronts to worry about.
Now Congo's performance in both games I've played has been surprising to me, largely because both Congos have been skilled players. I wonder if there isn't a sort of psychological bias at work - Congo could be as much of a corner power as Oceania or Amazon, either of which could be the odd man out in the southern triple. But its almost as if being in the perceived center of a 2D map makes Congo like Austria to a juggernaut in standard Dip - a concentration of inviting, easily surrounded centers that seems to get attacked early because gains outweigh risks in a lot of cases.
Part of the problem, I feel, is that Amazon and Oceania don't have a lot of incentive to go after one another. Accessible primarily through 1 sea lane, a stab either way probably makes one center change hands. A possible solution, in my opinion, would be to create an Antarctic space as a counterpart to the Arctic. If such a space could border Melbourne, Jo-Burg, and Buenos Aires, it could make an early stab more likely, and raise some tension - just as Arctic does for the northern powers.
Making China a little more naval oriented might also help. If Bangkok became a neutral center and was exchanged for Borneo or Singapore, that could make Oceania more compact and thus a better target for China early on.
Another possibility might perhaps be the addition of several neutrals SCs in key places that aren't able to be claimed by any power until after the initial builds. Maybe one per player, but always located right between 2 of them.
Just my ideas here - the map is going great and another playtest might lead to a completely different result. I'd be happy to participate - and be in a different part of the map. Might have totally different opinions if I'd drawn Europe or Russia!
Andrew
On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 3:05 PM, Jerome Payne <jerome777(at)ymail.com> wrote:
Hi everyone,
I'll send a proper EGS tomorrow, but in the meantime I just wanted to say 'congrats' to my fellow draw-sharers, 'well done' to Mike and Warren for surviving, 'unlucky' to Sean, Nick and Doug, and a big 'thank you' to Mike for GMing the game so well.
More tomorrow.
Jerome
Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphoneFrom: Michael Norton <mjn82(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:17:53 -0700 (PDT)To: Gino Karczewski<gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com>; Warren Fleming<alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com>
ReplyTo: Michael Norton <mjn82(at)yahoo.com>
Cc: Michael Penner<worldwidegm(at)gmail.com>; amtrating(at)gmail.com<amtrating(at)gmail.com>; jerome777(at)ymail.com<jerome777(at)ymail.com>; maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk<maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk>; nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com<nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com>; sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com<sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com>; timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com<timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com>; dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com<dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com>; dougray30(at)yahoo.com<dougray30(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: DC399 - Spring 2010
Congrats to you guys. Espeically Max! Although I have less territory than when I started, Egypt's a great place to retire and rule with all the creature comforts. I love the Med!
Mike
From: Gino Karczewski <gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com>
To: Warren Fleming <alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com>
Cc: Michael Penner <worldwidegm(at)gmail.com>; amtrating(at)gmail.com; jerome777(at)ymail.com; maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk; mjn82(at)yahoo.com; nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com; sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com; timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com; dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com
Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2012 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: DC399 - Spring 2010
Congrats to all from the Chinese Empire, currently struggling for control of the under-earth with the Mole people...
On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 12:09 PM, Warren Fleming <alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com> wrote:
Congrats guys. Whew!
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:42:47 -0500
Subject: DC399 - Spring 2010
From: worldwidegm(at)gmail.com
To: amtrating(at)gmail.com; gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com; jerome777(at)ymail.com; Maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk; mjn82(at)yahoo.com; nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com; sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com; timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com; alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com; dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com
...and that's all, folks.
After a number of attempts, the PQAO draw has passed and the game is over. I can think of a few players who would rather have seen the game end earlier, but it was not to be. Congratulations to Andrew, Jerome, Max and Tim on prevailing to the end. Congrats as well to Warren and Michael for their survivals. It's tough being under attack for the whole game, so thanks for sticking with us.
The selfish part of me wanted to see this game keep going, as I wanted to see Persia and Quebec go at it over the Europe/Russia border, giving the map a good test. But, I also see that if they did that Ociania and Amazon had enough control over the oceans to make their lives miserable. I really thought a 2-way was in the cards. But that is not to be.
I'd love to hear your comments both about the game and the map. I continue to tweak and test to try to make it better.
mvp
--
Gino Karczewski
765 Amsterdam Avenue #10-J
New York, NY 10025
917-434-9008 Mobile
646-807-4702 Fax[Reply] |
| DC399 China EGS - GinoKay (Jun 25, 2012, 7:45 am) |
Thank you all for participating in the game. It was great to have a game where most of the players were able to remain engaged most of the time, and no one dropped out.
While I certainly share in the congratulations to the winners, I also appreciate the time and effort of all the players in keeping the game going, especially when their positions were no longer tenable... And, of course, a big thank you to our GM who did a great job.
The geography of China posed initial planning issues as it had to prepare to hold the North from an arctic assault as well as the seas and her land borders. Having no safe rear area meant having to cover all areas and being able to concentrate on none of them...
While an initial alliance developed with Persia & Europe for the destruction of Russia aided in initial growth, ongoing conflict with the movements by Persia meant I could never have security on that border and was twice forced to move to defend it at key times where I could have expanded South and East. It's my belief that this, more than any other issue, kept China from further expanding and being able to have more strength to either defend herself in the latter stages of the game or grow to a size where she could have been a viable long-term partner. When Persia refused to build a fleet to help counter the expansion of Oceania, I knew my fate was sealed...
Negotiations with the sea powers to the South & East changed from turn to turn so there was never really any security there.
While I would have loved to expand West but could not disengage enough units as I had to keep garrisons everywhere as I had no peace with anyone.
Ah well, such is always the fate of some powers in every game.
I always enjoy a "global" game of Diplomacy as if offers a much richer and varied option of strategic choices. I do feel that having one arctic sea zone as opposed to two dramatically shifted the focus of many of the powers. Not sure if that should remain one zone or not as it borders on so many other zones...if it must be kept as is, consider a similar zone at the bottom of the map...
Anyway, appreciated everyone's time - good luck to all in the future!
Gino
--
Gino Karczewski
765 Amsterdam Avenue #10-J
New York, NY 10025
917-434-9008 Mobile
646-807-4702 Fax[Reply] |
| DC406: Spring 08 FInal - DancingQueen (Jun 25, 2012, 7:37 am) |
Hello all,
I'm back from helping my mother return home after lung surgery -- she
is doing as well as can be expected, many thanks to all who expressed
their concern.
I'll be replying to your emails (or initiating email of my own) as
soon as I can.
Thank you all for your patience, and sorry for holding things up.
Chris[Reply] |
| DC399 Mexico EGS - mjn82 (Jun 25, 2012, 7:14 am) |
Congrats again to the winning combo and to an excellent GM, Well, initially I considered two options. An alliance with Sahara and Oceania or Amazon was option 1. An alliance with both O and A, while attacking Sahara then choosing O or A as my permanent partner was plan B. I went with plan B after watching Sahara's initial moves which I thought were somewhat hostile. I may have misread that , but that was how I interpreted it. So I went with plan B and made two mistakes. One Plan B required some help from Amazon on the African continent, which gave him a foothold. Two, I was way too trusting of Amazon and more suspicious of Oceania so I let my west coast weakly defended. Obviously that was too tempting for Amazon and before I knew it I was stretched a unit or
two too thin and in trouble. I had tried to develop a friendship with Persia early on, hoping a strong Persia would offset the potential I saw in Oceania's position. I felt once he grew as a naval power he would be too tough to dislodge. I got that right but Persia was too busy inland with Russia to help in the Indian Ocean. Eventually that investment in Persia ended up critical to my survival. So maybe I got that right. Warren and I managed to help each other here and there to survive but never really worked well enough to restore any real control of Africa. Good job, balancing Quebec and Amazon Warren. I think an Arctic sea space would help and perhaps an adjustment in the ocean between Oceania and Amazon. I think the map leads Amazon to head east instead of west but then ,
perhaps I am biased lol. Thanks again. I especially enjoyed the initial diplomacy prior to establishing initial unit and center positions. nice touch Mike
[Reply] |
| DC399 Persia EOG - pieandmash (Jun 25, 2012, 5:09 am) |
Thanks to everyone for their efforts- great to be in a game with no replacements and few (any?) NMR's.
I scrutinized the map at the start and came to the conclusion that it was crowded and that aggressive attack was the only way to survive the inital phase. For Persia Russia and China pose an immediate grave threat, too many close sc, no way to hold the line if attacked first, especially in Russia. So, apologies to Doug for making his game brief, but it was you or me!
Fortunately Gino was excellent to work with, trustworthy and reliable- sure we had a couple of misunderstandings but otherwise all went well.
Globally I thought Congo was going to run away with it mid game, but everyone did and Mike got the classic early leader treatment- I wanted to help but was too tied up finishing Russia and worrying about China.
I was amazed to see Quebec's rise from a very slow careful start, but Sean said it all there, nicely done Tim. Meanwhile Oceania's bold rise attacking everyone to my surprise worked! and of course Amazon was steady and their pairing OA went all the way-iagain im surprised you agreed to the 4 way, you would have got the 2 way (or 3 if id been lucky).
Gino Im sorry I had to stab you because it worked well, but I could see to get into the finishing phase I needed to grow quick and so.....and Sean- dont ever say 'its over for me', as I translated that to be 'I give up' which is why I stabbed you at the end.
Mike, great ally, kept the OA from having an african build centre and held the line- would have been interesting to see.
Tim I enjoyed our 'team up', I say that because it was a pure alliance of convenience, we were both holding daggars behind our backs..much fun.
Map comments- love the moving of home sc, Didnt like the inability to defend your territory- too many connecting sc, map might work better with adding air units rather than changing the map. Or, nukes!
Thanks again all, enjoyable game
Max
From: Sean O'Donnell <sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com>
To: amtrating(at)gmail.com; Jerome Payne DC jerome777 <jerome777(at)ymail.com>
Cc: Michael Norton mjn82 DC <mjn82(at)yahoo.com>; Gino Karczewski <gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com>; Warren Fleming alwayshunted DC <alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com>; Viper Michael Penner GM <worldwidegm(at)gmail.com>; max victory <maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk>; Nick Powell DrSwordopolis DC <nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com>; Tim Crosby 2
<timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com>; dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com; Douglas 2 <dougray30(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, 25 June 2012, 3:49
Subject: RE: DC399 Europe EOG
Hello Everyone (On WiFi at the moment),
First, I would like to thank Michael for GMing, and I would like to congratulate Amazon, Oceania, Persia, and Quebec on their 4-way draw.
Second, I would like to thank everyone for a good game.
In my opinion, I screwed up in hindsight based on two major compounding mistakes. First, I didn't communicate as much as I should have during the build phase in the opening of the game, and I was overly hopeful. Second, I largely fought the last war. To clarify, I believed that Russia was my biggest and most immediate threat, so I based my strategy on slow expansion and growth and tactically on defenses. To accomplish these, I sought for peaceful relations with Quebec and Sahara diplomatically and through physical influence. With Quebec, I set the ground work to DMZ Atlantic through friendly diplomatic relations and built A Fra instead of F Fra, and I mostly kept my naval builds in Dub, Lon,
and Sto. To my understanding, the tactical strategy was a eastern defensive pivot. Essentially, the pivot shifts the units into defensive positions designed to impale/halt an offensive from the east; the main exception was F Sto and making Oslo neutral. I was hoping that if European-Russo didn't end up in an immediate war; I could create more flexibility. For the sake of simplicity, the advantage is that defensive pivots offer strong defenses, but the disadvantages are not very flexible and ineffective pointed in the wrong direction. To be blunt, when Quebec rather than Russia proved to be anti-European, I was in very poor position to do much. In my opinion, I made a very poor showing here as I largely had difficulty adapting to the situational and map dynamic's progression through the game. Quebec did a nice job keeping me on my toes, and I suspect my usefulness played a factor in Persia's alliance here.
I apologize for being brief, but things
are rather hectic and have forgotten much of what happened.
The map suggestions that I would make are:
A). I think that combining Elbe and Poland would be beneficial as the neutral zone between Europe and Russia would remain, but it also speeds up both defenses and offensive options here.
B). The Antarctic should mirror the Arctic.
C).
"2. 'S' denotes a strait. Armies may cross straits without a convoy. In addition, if both centers on either side of a strait are occupied, a fleet wishing to go through the strait must have permission of one of the occupying units (A Ethiopia Permit F Red Sea - Arabian Sea). A unit is considered to occupy a center if it begins and ends its movement in that center. Permission does not constitute an order (so the same unit can support another unit)."
This should also extend to units wishing to move from Somalia and Yemen should also have permission of a unit in the Red Sea or Arabian
Sea.
from Sean
Again, I apologize for my EOG being so brief, but I don't remember much with how hectic things have been.
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2012 13:10:30 -0700
Subject: DC399 Oceania EGS
From: amtrating(at)gmail.com
To: jerome777(at)ymail.com
CC: mjn82(at)yahoo.com; gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com; alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com; worldwidegm(at)gmail.com; maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk; nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com; sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com; timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com; dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com
Hey all, EGS as promised:
Well, this has been my second game on the worldwide variant, and have to say Mike that I feel like you've done a great job opening up the possibilities on this version. My opening strategy was very different than when I
played Amazon/South America before. The Arctic opening influenced my moves even though I was at the other side of the map, because it immediately had half the players immediately concerned about the space.
I immediately felt like Congo,Amazon, and Oceania were part of a triple that needed to go to 2 as soon as possible. If 2 of us took out the third, and then stayed well away from one another's home centers, we'd forge a 2-way alliance with each of us becoming effectively corner powers. Of the two, Jerome in Amazon seemed the most on board, and willing to discuss moves. My success in this game is almost entirely due to his good faith and willingness to collaborate while resisting the urge to stab when I was vulnerable. For example, when Mexico pushed southwest, had Amazon joined in with a couple strong moves I'd have lost all my southern centers. He did not, and I was able to slowly and surely
expand.
We decided on a strategy of containing Mexico while cooperating in Africa to eliminate our opposition there. I negotiated peaceful relations with both Persia and China, and Amazon helped me push Mexico back to the eastern Pacific while I helped Jerome take some Congoese centers. When I was in a good enough position, I attacked and seized some African centers for myself, and Congo was eliminated as a threat. At this point, my attention turned to the Pacific. I moved to establish a stalemate with Persia and went after Gino's China.
My choice of targets at this point was pretty much chosen by who was most willing to actively discuss moves. I was concerned about a stab from Amazon, but he had been honest so far and I figured it would take some time to set up an effective stab, so I'd have some indications. China had taken what of Russia he wanted, and it appeared that Persia was planning to stab
him. Mexico was stalemated, but too far to garner any gains too quickly. So pretty much by process of elimination I chose to move on China. Slow going, but I made progress, and kept pace with Amazon.
From there things proceeded fairly mechanically. Quebec's apparent path to growth through Europe and Sahara began to worry Amazon and I; we feared he might be able to run for a solo by saving Mexico's centers for last. We decided to jointly go after Mexico to prevent this, and bolster our own position. And so the both of us marched North, collecting centers as we went. It was a long slog through China's naturally strong defenses, but I managed to do some damage and force some key disbands. Pretty much the same story in North America.
Then the endgame - a Persia/Quebec was suspected, and I proposed a 3 way draw excluding Persia to try and make it look like Quebec was planning to stab Persia
with our help. Whether that had any effect or not, about that time Persia and Quebec started to get hostile around their borders. I made some key moves to surround Persia and lock his armies into place, then planned to push into the Arctic to outflank him. I think Amazon planned the same for Quebec. We both supported a 4 way draw publicly, and I know I at least voted for it each time it came up, but planned to keep improving our respective positions until it passed or we were strong enough for force a 2-way draw.
Probably the main reason we didn't push for a 2 way draw was concern that the other would make faster progress and solo. We'd spoken before about racing to a solo without attacking one another, and though I was becoming sorely tempted by the thought of snagging some of his centers after I had turned Persia's flank, I preferred to avoid the risk and walk away as the joint SC leader in a 4-way
draw.
Great game you guys, and thanks Mike for GMing!
Now map comments:
I really like how this map is shaping up. I still feel like Oceania is too hard to attack, and exploited that throughout the game. I calculated that with 7 units and one ally I could make myself safe indefinitely. 11-12 units and no ally would make me effectively impregnable to attack if I had the right centers. The relatively few mid-ocean spaces makes stalemates fairly easy, as was seen in the Atlantic and Indian. As a predominantly naval power (unless I wanted to bring down a joint China-Persia assault, armies in Bangkok and Jakarta were not a good idea till later) Oceania can fairly easily make any attack unprofitable to the medium term.
Contrast this with Russia, who - especially with Arctic open - isn't safe anywhere. The geography of a worldwide map makes Oceania a very safe position. Amazon is
likewise very safe. The map does a great job of allowing corner type powers avenues of expansion against neighbors who usually have more fronts to worry about.
Now Congo's performance in both games I've played has been surprising to me, largely because both Congos have been skilled players. I wonder if there isn't a sort of psychological bias at work - Congo could be as much of a corner power as Oceania or Amazon, either of which could be the odd man out in the southern triple. But its almost as if being in the perceived center of a 2D map makes Congo like Austria to a juggernaut in standard Dip - a concentration of inviting, easily surrounded centers that seems to get attacked early because gains outweigh risks in a lot of cases.
Part of the problem, I feel, is that Amazon and Oceania don't have a lot of incentive to go after one another. Accessible primarily through 1 sea lane, a stab either way probably makes one
center change hands. A possible solution, in my opinion, would be to create an Antarctic space as a counterpart to the Arctic. If such a space could border Melbourne, Jo-Burg, and Buenos Aires, it could make an early stab more likely, and raise some tension - just as Arctic does for the northern powers.
Making China a little more naval oriented might also help. If Bangkok became a neutral center and was exchanged for Borneo or Singapore, that could make Oceania more compact and thus a better target for China early on.
Another possibility might perhaps be the addition of several neutrals SCs in key places that aren't able to be claimed by any power until after the initial builds. Maybe one per player, but always located right between 2 of them.
Just my ideas here - the map is going great and another playtest might lead to a completely different result. I'd be happy to participate - and be
in a different part of the map. Might have totally different opinions if I'd drawn Europe or Russia!
Andrew
On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 3:05 PM, Jerome Payne <jerome777(at)ymail.com> wrote:
Hi everyone,
I'll send a proper EGS tomorrow, but in the meantime I just wanted to say 'congrats' to my fellow draw-sharers, 'well done' to Mike and Warren for surviving, 'unlucky' to Sean, Nick and Doug, and a big 'thank you' to Mike for GMing the game so well.
More tomorrow.
Jerome
Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone
From: Michael Norton <mjn82(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:17:53 -0700 (PDT)
To: Gino Karczewski<gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com>; Warren Fleming<alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com>
ReplyTo: Michael Norton <mjn82(at)yahoo.com>
Cc: Michael Penner<worldwidegm(at)gmail.com>; amtrating(at)gmail.com<amtrating(at)gmail.com>; jerome777(at)ymail.com<jerome777(at)ymail.com>; maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk<maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk>; nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com<nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com>; sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com<sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com>; timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com<timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com>; dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com<dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com>; dougray30(at)yahoo.com<dougray30(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: DC399 - Spring 2010
Congrats to you guys. Espeically Max! Although I have less territory than when I started, Egypt's a great place to retire and rule with all the creature comforts. I love the Med!
Mike
From: Gino Karczewski <gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com>
To: Warren Fleming <alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com>
Cc: Michael Penner <worldwidegm(at)gmail.com>; amtrating(at)gmail.com; jerome777(at)ymail.com; maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk; mjn82(at)yahoo.com; nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com; sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com; timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com; dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com
Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2012 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: DC399 - Spring 2010
Congrats to all from the Chinese Empire, currently struggling for control of the under-earth with the Mole people...
On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 12:09 PM, Warren Fleming <alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com> wrote:
Congrats guys. Whew!
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:42:47 -0500
Subject: DC399 - Spring 2010
From: worldwidegm(at)gmail.com
To: amtrating(at)gmail.com; gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com; jerome777(at)ymail.com; Maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk; mjn82(at)yahoo.com; nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com; sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com; timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com; alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com; dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com
...and that's all, folks.
After a number of attempts, the PQAO
draw has passed and the game is over. I can think of a few players who would rather have seen the game end earlier, but it was not to be. Congratulations to Andrew, Jerome, Max and Tim on prevailing to the end. Congrats as well to Warren and Michael for their survivals. It's tough being under attack for the whole game, so thanks for sticking with us.
The selfish part of me wanted to see this game keep going, as I wanted to see Persia and Quebec go at it over the Europe/Russia border, giving the map a good test. But, I also see that if they did that Ociania and Amazon had enough control over the oceans to make their lives miserable. I really thought a 2-way was in the cards. But that is not to be.
I'd love to hear your comments both about the game and the map. I continue to tweak and test to try to make it better.
mvp
--
Gino Karczewski
765 Amsterdam Avenue #10-J
New York, NY 10025
917-434-9008 Mobile
646-807-4702 Fax[Reply] |
| DC399 Amazon EGS - jerome777 (Jun 25, 2012, 2:13 am) |
Hi everyone,Thanks again to Mike for GMing, and thanks again to you all for playing. I started this game with the intention of trying to find one front for expansion, and two fronts to defend. Congo failed to build and west-coast fleets, and Sahara was talked into not moving to ASC in the first turn - that kind of made it obvious that Africa should be the area for my offensive drive, and additionally Sahara and Congo seemed not to trust one another at all, making it possible for me to play them off against one another. Meanwhile I was happy to 'sit pat' and defend to my north and east, and await developments. Quebec and I had a good understanding, so I decided to put minimal defensive forces into the Pacific zone, and see where developments took me with Oceania and Mexico. Andrew proved to be an excellent ally, willing to discuss compromises, bounce moves off of me, make 'devil's advocate' move suggestions for me, and respond reasonably quickly to messages sent. Nick, for whatever reason, was almost completely silent to me all game. Despite my sending several unanswered messages to him, I got no response - yet it seemed he was in reasonably regular comms with Tim. I still don't know what I did to deserve such treatment from an 'ally', but from the turn of this calendar year it was only a matter of time before Andrew and I broke him down. Tim and I had a good 'info-sharing' alliance up to the mid-game, though I'd not asked him to do anything for me until that point. But then once his breakthrough against Europe came, I asked for help in taking Mexico City, and despite promising to help me in Tim chose not to, instead taking three builds that turn and putting a fleet into Havana. From that point onwards I committed fully to my ally in Andrew, and began cultivating an alliance with Warren to counterbalance Quebec's European power. Pretty soon it seemed the game was heading for a stalemate, and the fun seemed to have gone from the game for most other players, and so despite being keen to pursue the AO two-way I decided that voting for the four-way would be an acceptable alternative to me. Map:I echo the comments of others calling for a 'southern ocean' to mirror Arctic, bordering Bue, Joh, Mel and south-island of NZ. You could also consider making the Pacific a little 'narrower' to enhance contact and controversy between China-Mexico and Amazon-Oceania. Having said that, I think the map is awesome and good fun to play!Best of wishes to everyone,Jerome Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphoneFrom: Nick Powell <nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2012 21:56:07 -0230To: Andrew Tanner<amtrating(at)gmail.com>Cc: <jerome777(at)ymail.com>; dc399 Congo Mike Norton<mjn82(at)yahoo.com>; dc399 Gino Karczewski China<gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com>; Warren Fleming<alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com>; Worldwide Diplomacy Gamemaster<worldwidegm(at)gmail.com>; dc399 Max Persia<maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk>; dc399 Sean O'Donnell Europe<sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com>; dc399 Tim Crosby Quebec<timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com>; dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com<dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com>; dougray30(at)yahoo.com<dougray30(at)yahoo.com>Subject: DC399 Mexico EGSHi all,
This was a tricky game for me, because it came at a time in my life when I really shouldn't have been playing Diplomacy at all. I moved twice in December, again briefly in April, and then all the way across the country from BC to Newfoundland at the beginning of May. This came with multiple computer outages, moving related and otherwise. Perhaps I should have dropped out and asked for a replacement, but that's not how I roll. Regardless, once I fell behind on my diplomacy and my game started to be impaired as a result, I lost interest in the game quickly and that little snowball started becoming a very big boulder indeed...
My initial plan, from analysing the map and the SC breakdown, was for a naval assault against China or Oceania as part of an American Triple. Tim in Quebec said he was entirely on board with this, and Jerome indicated as well initially but it remains to be seen if his heart was in it or not. Maybe he never planned on sticking with me for long and was always with Oceania, or maybe it was simply my total silence that flicked his paranoia switch and moved him to the other side. Regardless, the plan became for me to push west, Tim and Jerome east, and for Jerome and I to supply an extremely valuable fleet into the other front. Arctic, for me, and as a bulwark against Oceania for Jerome. I noted very early the importance of snagging key ocean spaces because of the difficulty involved in being dislodged from them, and also the very poor prospects for an American continental war. So I went all in early on fleets rather than choosing to hedge my bets, and decided to make an early gambit attack on Oceania, hoping he'd think it too crazy a prospect to defend against it too heartily. Why? I knew Tim and Sean from previous games - Tim a solid ally and very capable player (who has done very well, and better than me, every time we've played together) and I figured I could string Sean along and get intel from him to help Tim to ensure my ally credentials. I was hoping Eurasia would stagnate while I pushed through with brilliant early victory in the seas. To make this work best I'd have to have a backdoor late-game alliance planned with Persia or one of the African powers, but much to my disfortune, I didn't contact any of them until much too late in the game. All the laziness and outside life factors. In Asia, Gino struck me as paranoid and potentially erratic like many a new player, so I didn't want to get involved in a long war against him without overwhelming help. Andrew in Ocenia on the other hand, struck me immediately as a very competent, very dangerous neighbour so I resolved to embark on a high risk, high reward war against him. If I could use my early moves to get a fleet behind his lines, I'd have the leverage to break him open. But that didn't work - no help from Amazon, no trust from China, not duplicitous enough against Oceania, too silent with other players... and the rest is history. This did lead to an interesting debate with Tim about who one should attack first that exposed our very different Diplomacy philosophies. I favour attacking the strong, helping the weak, ensuring a balance of power and focusing on the biggest threats early, and he a more traditional approach. Good discussion.
I started going dark, Amazon betrayed me to little surprise, and I focused on the long haul of survival. I knew I could form a line, even with Hawaii, that with Quebec's help I would be able to hold them off with indefinitely, which I think may have taken them a while to fully understand, and I used my tactical prowess (hah) to my best ability. This went on well for a while, as I more and more lost all interest in the game. I would have been very happy to continue this position and indirectly give Quebec a solid solo shot. Then Tim stabbed me and I decided to do all in my power to injure him. I knew the balance of power around my centers would mean that A\O and Q might mutually keep each other out, so I decided to be predictably unorthodox and just frustrate Tim's pace in the far north. And then after that, I was doomed, so I moved to piss him off some more. Hah!
The draws came and went. And I was eliminated. I HOPE that the time of the draw's passing was just that everyone had decided it was over, but I know this game had become entirely fixed and unfun for most of its players, and that it wasn't a move to secure a couple extra ranking points by extending the game one turn to ensure a few centre's extinction. That's fine for a tournament game, but a bit of a dick move otherwise.
As for the variant, I largely enjoyed it. This map appealed to me initially because it's a global game that isn't broken down into tons of small theaters of war. Each centre is not far away from any other and so there is a great need to diplome with the whole world. As for the map, it's been a long time since I've thought about it. It does occur to me that Oceania and the 3 Western hemisphere powers are much better defensively than the rest, with seemingly as good offensive capabilities but I don't know if that's true or not.
Anyways, thanks for the game even if I wished it ended months ago,
-Nick, from an islet in James' Bay
On Sun, Jun 24, 2012 at 5:40 PM, Andrew Tanner <amtrating(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Hey all, EGS as promised:
Well, this has been my second game on the worldwide variant, and have to say Mike that I feel like you've done a great job opening up the possibilities on this version. My opening strategy was very different than when I played Amazon/South America before. The Arctic opening influenced my moves even though I was at the other side of the map, because it immediately had half the players immediately concerned about the space.
I immediately felt like Congo,Amazon, and Oceania were part of a triple that needed to go to 2 as soon as possible. If 2 of us took out the third, and then stayed well away from one another's home centers, we'd forge a 2-way alliance with each of us becoming effectively corner powers. Of the two, Jerome in Amazon seemed the most on board, and willing to discuss moves. My success in this game is almost entirely due to his good faith and willingness to collaborate while resisting the urge to stab when I was vulnerable. For example, when Mexico pushed southwest, had Amazon joined in with a couple strong moves I'd have lost all my southern centers. He did not, and I was able to slowly and surely expand.
We decided on a strategy of containing Mexico while cooperating in Africa to eliminate our opposition there. I negotiated peaceful relations with both Persia and China, and Amazon helped me push Mexico back to the eastern Pacific while I helped Jerome take some Congoese centers. When I was in a good enough position, I attacked and seized some African centers for myself, and Congo was eliminated as a threat. At this point, my attention turned to the Pacific. I moved to establish a stalemate with Persia and went after Gino's China.
My choice of targets at this point was pretty much chosen by who was most willing to actively discuss moves. I was concerned about a stab from Amazon, but he had been honest so far and I figured it would take some time to set up an effective stab, so I'd have some indications. China had taken what of Russia he wanted, and it appeared that Persia was planning to stab him. Mexico was stalemated, but too far to garner any gains too quickly. So pretty much by process of elimination I chose to move on China. Slow going, but I made progress, and kept pace with Amazon.
From there things proceeded fairly mechanically. Quebec's apparent path to growth through Europe and Sahara began to worry Amazon and I; we feared he might be able to run for a solo by saving Mexico's centers for last. We decided to jointly go after Mexico to prevent this, and bolster our own position. And so the both of us marched North, collecting centers as we went. It was a long slog through China's naturally strong defenses, but I managed to do some damage and force some key disbands. Pretty much the same story in North America.
Then the endgame - a Persia/Quebec was suspected, and I proposed a 3 way draw excluding Persia to try and make it look like Quebec was planning to stab Persia with our help. Whether that had any effect or not, about that time Persia and Quebec started to get hostile around their borders. I made some key moves to surround Persia and lock his armies into place, then planned to push into the Arctic to outflank him. I think Amazon planned the same for Quebec. We both supported a 4 way draw publicly, and I know I at least voted for it each time it came up, but planned to keep improving our respective positions until it passed or we were strong enough for force a 2-way draw.
Probably the main reason we didn't push for a 2 way draw was concern that the other would make faster progress and solo. We'd spoken before about racing to a solo without attacking one another, and though I was becoming sorely tempted by the thought of snagging some of his centers after I had turned Persia's flank, I preferred to avoid the risk and walk away as the joint SC leader in a 4-way draw.
Great game you guys, and thanks Mike for GMing!
Now map comments:
I really like how this map is shaping up. I still feel like Oceania is too hard to attack, and exploited that throughout the game. I calculated that with 7 units and one ally I could make myself safe indefinitely. 11-12 units and no ally would make me effectively impregnable to attack if I had the right centers. The relatively few mid-ocean spaces makes stalemates fairly easy, as was seen in the Atlantic and Indian. As a predominantly naval power (unless I wanted to bring down a joint China-Persia assault, armies in Bangkok and Jakarta were not a good idea till later) Oceania can fairly easily make any attack unprofitable to the medium term.
Contrast this with Russia, who - especially with Arctic open - isn't safe anywhere. The geography of a worldwide map makes Oceania a very safe position. Amazon is likewise very safe. The map does a great job of allowing corner type powers avenues of expansion against neighbors who usually have more fronts to worry about.
Now Congo's performance in both games I've played has been surprising to me, largely because both Congos have been skilled players. I wonder if there isn't a sort of psychological bias at work - Congo could be as much of a corner power as Oceania or Amazon, either of which could be the odd man out in the southern triple. But its almost as if being in the perceived center of a 2D map makes Congo like Austria to a juggernaut in standard Dip - a concentration of inviting, easily surrounded centers that seems to get attacked early because gains outweigh risks in a lot of cases.
Part of the problem, I feel, is that Amazon and Oceania don't have a lot of incentive to go after one another. Accessible primarily through 1 sea lane, a stab either way probably makes one center change hands. A possible solution, in my opinion, would be to create an Antarctic space as a counterpart to the Arctic. If such a space could border Melbourne, Jo-Burg, and Buenos Aires, it could make an early stab more likely, and raise some tension - just as Arctic does for the northern powers.
Making China a little more naval oriented might also help. If Bangkok became a neutral center and was exchanged for Borneo or Singapore, that could make Oceania more compact and thus a better target for China early on.
Another possibility might perhaps be the addition of several neutrals SCs in key places that aren't able to be claimed by any power until after the initial builds. Maybe one per player, but always located right between 2 of them.
Just my ideas here - the map is going great and another playtest might lead to a completely different result. I'd be happy to participate - and be in a different part of the map. Might have totally different opinions if I'd drawn Europe or Russia!
Andrew
On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 3:05 PM, Jerome Payne <jerome777(at)ymail.com> wrote:
Hi everyone,
I'll send a proper EGS tomorrow, but in the meantime I just wanted to say 'congrats' to my fellow draw-sharers, 'well done' to Mike and Warren for surviving, 'unlucky' to Sean, Nick and Doug, and a big 'thank you' to Mike for GMing the game so well.
More tomorrow.
Jerome
Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphoneFrom: Michael Norton <mjn82(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:17:53 -0700 (PDT)To: Gino Karczewski<gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com>; Warren Fleming<alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com>
ReplyTo: Michael Norton <mjn82(at)yahoo.com>
Cc: Michael Penner<worldwidegm(at)gmail.com>; amtrating(at)gmail.com<amtrating(at)gmail.com>; jerome777(at)ymail.com<jerome777(at)ymail.com>; maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk<maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk>; nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com<nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com>; sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com<sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com>; timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com<timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com>; dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com<dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com>; dougray30(at)yahoo.com<dougray30(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: DC399 - Spring 2010
Congrats to you guys. Espeically Max! Although I have less territory than when I started, Egypt's a great place to retire and rule with all the creature comforts. I love the Med!
Mike
From: Gino Karczewski <gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com>
To: Warren Fleming <alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com>
Cc: Michael Penner <worldwidegm(at)gmail.com>; amtrating(at)gmail.com; jerome777(at)ymail.com; maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk; mjn82(at)yahoo.com; nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com; sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com; timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com; dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com
Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2012 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: DC399 - Spring 2010
Congrats to all from the Chinese Empire, currently struggling for control of the under-earth with the Mole people...
On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 12:09 PM, Warren Fleming <alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com> wrote:
Congrats guys. Whew!
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:42:47 -0500
Subject: DC399 - Spring 2010
From: worldwidegm(at)gmail.com
To: amtrating(at)gmail.com; gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com; jerome777(at)ymail.com; Maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk; mjn82(at)yahoo.com; nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com; sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com; timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com; alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com; dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com
...and that's all, folks.
After a number of attempts, the PQAO draw has passed and the game is over. I can think of a few players who would rather have seen the game end earlier, but it was not to be. Congratulations to Andrew, Jerome, Max and Tim on prevailing to the end. Congrats as well to Warren and Michael for their survivals. It's tough being under attack for the whole game, so thanks for sticking with us.
The selfish part of me wanted to see this game keep going, as I wanted to see Persia and Quebec go at it over the Europe/Russia border, giving the map a good test. But, I also see that if they did that Ociania and Amazon had enough control over the oceans to make their lives miserable. I really thought a 2-way was in the cards. But that is not to be.
I'd love to hear your comments both about the game and the map. I continue to tweak and test to try to make it better.
mvp
--
Gino Karczewski
765 Amsterdam Avenue #10-J
New York, NY 10025
917-434-9008 Mobile
646-807-4702 Fax[Reply] |
| DC399 Amazon EGS (dc399) DrSwordopolis Jun 25, 09:26 am |
To be fair Jerome, I was ignoring everyone at that point. You might have been the most crucially important person to respond to, but rest assured, your treatment wasn't special. I was just wasn't being a very good Dipper at that point. First came procrastination, and then came giving up entirely.
On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 4:43 AM, Jerome Payne <jerome777(at)ymail.com> wrote:
Hi everyone,
Thanks again to Mike for GMing, and thanks again to you all for playing.
I started this game with the intention of trying to find one front for expansion, and two fronts to defend. Congo failed to build and west-coast fleets, and Sahara was talked into not moving to ASC in the first turn - that kind of made it obvious that Africa should be the area for my offensive drive, and additionally Sahara and Congo seemed not to trust one another at all, making it possible for me to play them off against one another.
Meanwhile I was happy to 'sit pat' and defend to my north and east, and await developments. Quebec and I had a good understanding, so I decided to put minimal defensive forces into the Pacific zone, and see where developments took me with Oceania and Mexico.
Andrew proved to be an excellent ally, willing to discuss compromises, bounce moves off of me, make 'devil's advocate' move suggestions for me, and respond reasonably quickly to messages sent.
Nick, for whatever reason, was almost completely silent to me all game. Despite my sending several unanswered messages to him, I got no response - yet it seemed he was in reasonably regular comms with Tim. I still don't know what I did to deserve such treatment from an 'ally', but from the turn of this calendar year it was only a matter of time before Andrew and I broke him down.
Tim and I had a good 'info-sharing' alliance up to the mid-game, though I'd not asked him to do anything for me until that point. But then once his breakthrough against Europe came, I asked for help in taking Mexico City, and despite promising to help me in Tim chose not to, instead taking three builds that turn and putting a fleet into Havana. From that point onwards I committed fully to my ally in Andrew, and began cultivating an alliance with Warren to counterbalance Quebec's European power.
Pretty soon it seemed the game was heading for a stalemate, and the fun seemed to have gone from the game for most other players, and so despite being keen to pursue the AO two-way I decided that voting for the four-way would be an acceptable alternative to me.
Map:
I echo the comments of others calling for a 'southern ocean' to mirror Arctic, bordering Bue, Joh, Mel and south-island of NZ. You could also consider making the Pacific a little 'narrower' to enhance contact and controversy between China-Mexico and Amazon-Oceania. Having said that, I think the map is awesome and good fun to play!
Best of wishes to everyone,
Jerome
Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphoneFrom: Nick Powell <nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2012 21:56:07 -0230To: Andrew Tanner<amtrating(at)gmail.com>Cc: <jerome777(at)ymail.com>; dc399 Congo Mike Norton<mjn82(at)yahoo.com>; dc399 Gino Karczewski China<gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com>; Warren Fleming<alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com>; Worldwide Diplomacy Gamemaster<worldwidegm(at)gmail.com>; dc399 Max Persia<maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk>; dc399 Sean O'Donnell Europe<sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com>; dc399 Tim Crosby Quebec<timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com>; dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com<dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com>; dougray30(at)yahoo.com<dougray30(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: DC399 Mexico EGS
Hi all,
This was a tricky game for me, because it came at a time in my life when I really shouldn't have been playing Diplomacy at all. I moved twice in December, again briefly in April, and then all the way across the country from BC to Newfoundland at the beginning of May. This came with multiple computer outages, moving related and otherwise. Perhaps I should have dropped out and asked for a replacement, but that's not how I roll. Regardless, once I fell behind on my diplomacy and my game started to be impaired as a result, I lost interest in the game quickly and that little snowball started becoming a very big boulder indeed...
My initial plan, from analysing the map and the SC breakdown, was for a naval assault against China or Oceania as part of an American Triple. Tim in Quebec said he was entirely on board with this, and Jerome indicated as well initially but it remains to be seen if his heart was in it or not. Maybe he never planned on sticking with me for long and was always with Oceania, or maybe it was simply my total silence that flicked his paranoia switch and moved him to the other side. Regardless, the plan became for me to push west, Tim and Jerome east, and for Jerome and I to supply an extremely valuable fleet into the other front. Arctic, for me, and as a bulwark against Oceania for Jerome. I noted very early the importance of snagging key ocean spaces because of the difficulty involved in being dislodged from them, and also the very poor prospects for an American continental war. So I went all in early on fleets rather than choosing to hedge my bets, and decided to make an early gambit attack on Oceania, hoping he'd think it too crazy a prospect to defend against it too heartily. Why? I knew Tim and Sean from previous games - Tim a solid ally and very capable player (who has done very well, and better than me, every time we've played together) and I figured I could string Sean along and get intel from him to help Tim to ensure my ally credentials. I was hoping Eurasia would stagnate while I pushed through with brilliant early victory in the seas. To make this work best I'd have to have a backdoor late-game alliance planned with Persia or one of the African powers, but much to my disfortune, I didn't contact any of them until much too late in the game. All the laziness and outside life factors. In Asia, Gino struck me as paranoid and potentially erratic like many a new player, so I didn't want to get involved in a long war against him without overwhelming help. Andrew in Ocenia on the other hand, struck me immediately as a very competent, very dangerous neighbour so I resolved to embark on a high risk, high reward war against him. If I could use my early moves to get a fleet behind his lines, I'd have the leverage to break him open. But that didn't work - no help from Amazon, no trust from China, not duplicitous enough against Oceania, too silent with other players... and the rest is history. This did lead to an interesting debate with Tim about who one should attack first that exposed our very different Diplomacy philosophies. I favour attacking the strong, helping the weak, ensuring a balance of power and focusing on the biggest threats early, and he a more traditional approach. Good discussion.
I started going dark, Amazon betrayed me to little surprise, and I focused on the long haul of survival. I knew I could form a line, even with Hawaii, that with Quebec's help I would be able to hold them off with indefinitely, which I think may have taken them a while to fully understand, and I used my tactical prowess (hah) to my best ability. This went on well for a while, as I more and more lost all interest in the game. I would have been very happy to continue this position and indirectly give Quebec a solid solo shot. Then Tim stabbed me and I decided to do all in my power to injure him. I knew the balance of power around my centers would mean that A\O and Q might mutually keep each other out, so I decided to be predictably unorthodox and just frustrate Tim's pace in the far north. And then after that, I was doomed, so I moved to piss him off some more. Hah!
The draws came and went. And I was eliminated. I HOPE that the time of the draw's passing was just that everyone had decided it was over, but I know this game had become entirely fixed and unfun for most of its players, and that it wasn't a move to secure a couple extra ranking points by extending the game one turn to ensure a few centre's extinction. That's fine for a tournament game, but a bit of a dick move otherwise.
As for the variant, I largely enjoyed it. This map appealed to me initially because it's a global game that isn't broken down into tons of small theaters of war. Each centre is not far away from any other and so there is a great need to diplome with the whole world. As for the map, it's been a long time since I've thought about it. It does occur to me that Oceania and the 3 Western hemisphere powers are much better defensively than the rest, with seemingly as good offensive capabilities but I don't know if that's true or not.
Anyways, thanks for the game even if I wished it ended months ago,
-Nick, from an islet in James' Bay
On Sun, Jun 24, 2012 at 5:40 PM, Andrew Tanner <amtrating(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Hey all, EGS as promised:
Well, this has been my second game on the worldwide variant, and have to say Mike that I feel like you've done a great job opening up the possibilities on this version. My opening strategy was very different than when I played Amazon/South America before. The Arctic opening influenced my moves even though I was at the other side of the map, because it immediately had half the players immediately concerned about the space.
I immediately felt like Congo,Amazon, and Oceania were part of a triple that needed to go to 2 as soon as possible. If 2 of us took out the third, and then stayed well away from one another's home centers, we'd forge a 2-way alliance with each of us becoming effectively corner powers. Of the two, Jerome in Amazon seemed the most on board, and willing to discuss moves. My success in this game is almost entirely due to his good faith and willingness to collaborate while resisting the urge to stab when I was vulnerable. For example, when Mexico pushed southwest, had Amazon joined in with a couple strong moves I'd have lost all my southern centers. He did not, and I was able to slowly and surely expand.
We decided on a strategy of containing Mexico while cooperating in Africa to eliminate our opposition there. I negotiated peaceful relations with both Persia and China, and Amazon helped me push Mexico back to the eastern Pacific while I helped Jerome take some Congoese centers. When I was in a good enough position, I attacked and seized some African centers for myself, and Congo was eliminated as a threat. At this point, my attention turned to the Pacific. I moved to establish a stalemate with Persia and went after Gino's China.
My choice of targets at this point was pretty much chosen by who was most willing to actively discuss moves. I was concerned about a stab from Amazon, but he had been honest so far and I figured it would take some time to set up an effective stab, so I'd have some indications. China had taken what of Russia he wanted, and it appeared that Persia was planning to stab him. Mexico was stalemated, but too far to garner any gains too quickly. So pretty much by process of elimination I chose to move on China. Slow going, but I made progress, and kept pace with Amazon.
From there things proceeded fairly mechanically. Quebec's apparent path to growth through Europe and Sahara began to worry Amazon and I; we feared he might be able to run for a solo by saving Mexico's centers for last. We decided to jointly go after Mexico to prevent this, and bolster our own position. And so the both of us marched North, collecting centers as we went. It was a long slog through China's naturally strong defenses, but I managed to do some damage and force some key disbands. Pretty much the same story in North America.
Then the endgame - a Persia/Quebec was suspected, and I proposed a 3 way draw excluding Persia to try and make it look like Quebec was planning to stab Persia with our help. Whether that had any effect or not, about that time Persia and Quebec started to get hostile around their borders. I made some key moves to surround Persia and lock his armies into place, then planned to push into the Arctic to outflank him. I think Amazon planned the same for Quebec. We both supported a 4 way draw publicly, and I know I at least voted for it each time it came up, but planned to keep improving our respective positions until it passed or we were strong enough for force a 2-way draw.
Probably the main reason we didn't push for a 2 way draw was concern that the other would make faster progress and solo. We'd spoken before about racing to a solo without attacking one another, and though I was becoming sorely tempted by the thought of snagging some of his centers after I had turned Persia's flank, I preferred to avoid the risk and walk away as the joint SC leader in a 4-way draw.
Great game you guys, and thanks Mike for GMing!
Now map comments:
I really like how this map is shaping up. I still feel like Oceania is too hard to attack, and exploited that throughout the game. I calculated that with 7 units and one ally I could make myself safe indefinitely. 11-12 units and no ally would make me effectively impregnable to attack if I had the right centers. The relatively few mid-ocean spaces makes stalemates fairly easy, as was seen in the Atlantic and Indian. As a predominantly naval power (unless I wanted to bring down a joint China-Persia assault, armies in Bangkok and Jakarta were not a good idea till later) Oceania can fairly easily make any attack unprofitable to the medium term.
Contrast this with Russia, who - especially with Arctic open - isn't safe anywhere. The geography of a worldwide map makes Oceania a very safe position. Amazon is likewise very safe. The map does a great job of allowing corner type powers avenues of expansion against neighbors who usually have more fronts to worry about.
Now Congo's performance in both games I've played has been surprising to me, largely because both Congos have been skilled players. I wonder if there isn't a sort of psychological bias at work - Congo could be as much of a corner power as Oceania or Amazon, either of which could be the odd man out in the southern triple. But its almost as if being in the perceived center of a 2D map makes Congo like Austria to a juggernaut in standard Dip - a concentration of inviting, easily surrounded centers that seems to get attacked early because gains outweigh risks in a lot of cases.
Part of the problem, I feel, is that Amazon and Oceania don't have a lot of incentive to go after one another. Accessible primarily through 1 sea lane, a stab either way probably makes one center change hands. A possible solution, in my opinion, would be to create an Antarctic space as a counterpart to the Arctic. If such a space could border Melbourne, Jo-Burg, and Buenos Aires, it could make an early stab more likely, and raise some tension - just as Arctic does for the northern powers.
Making China a little more naval oriented might also help. If Bangkok became a neutral center and was exchanged for Borneo or Singapore, that could make Oceania more compact and thus a better target for China early on.
Another possibility might perhaps be the addition of several neutrals SCs in key places that aren't able to be claimed by any power until after the initial builds. Maybe one per player, but always located right between 2 of them.
Just my ideas here - the map is going great and another playtest might lead to a completely different result. I'd be happy to participate - and be in a different part of the map. Might have totally different opinions if I'd drawn Europe or Russia!
Andrew
On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 3:05 PM, Jerome Payne <jerome777(at)ymail.com> wrote:
Hi everyone,
I'll send a proper EGS tomorrow, but in the meantime I just wanted to say 'congrats' to my fellow draw-sharers, 'well done' to Mike and Warren for surviving, 'unlucky' to Sean, Nick and Doug, and a big 'thank you' to Mike for GMing the game so well.
More tomorrow.
Jerome
Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphoneFrom: Michael Norton <mjn82(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:17:53 -0700 (PDT)To: Gino Karczewski<gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com>; Warren Fleming<alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com>
ReplyTo: Michael Norton <mjn82(at)yahoo.com>
Cc: Michael Penner<worldwidegm(at)gmail.com>; amtrating(at)gmail.com<amtrating(at)gmail.com>; jerome777(at)ymail.com<jerome777(at)ymail.com>; maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk<maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk>; nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com<nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com>; sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com<sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com>; timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com<timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com>; dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com<dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com>; dougray30(at)yahoo.com<dougray30(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: DC399 - Spring 2010
Congrats to you guys. Espeically Max! Although I have less territory than when I started, Egypt's a great place to retire and rule with all the creature comforts. I love the Med!
Mike
From: Gino Karczewski <gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com>
To: Warren Fleming <alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com>
Cc: Michael Penner <worldwidegm(at)gmail.com>; amtrating(at)gmail.com; jerome777(at)ymail.com; maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk; mjn82(at)yahoo.com; nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com; sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com; timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com; dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com
Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2012 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: DC399 - Spring 2010
Congrats to all from the Chinese Empire, currently struggling for control of the under-earth with the Mole people...
On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 12:09 PM, Warren Fleming <alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com> wrote:
Congrats guys. Whew!
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 10:42:47 -0500
Subject: DC399 - Spring 2010
From: worldwidegm(at)gmail.com
To: amtrating(at)gmail.com; gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com; jerome777(at)ymail.com; Maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk; mjn82(at)yahoo.com; nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com; sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com; timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com; alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com; dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com
...and that's all, folks.
After a number of attempts, the PQAO draw has passed and the game is over. I can think of a few players who would rather have seen the game end earlier, but it was not to be. Congratulations to Andrew, Jerome, Max and Tim on prevailing to the end. Congrats as well to Warren and Michael for their survivals. It's tough being under attack for the whole game, so thanks for sticking with us.
The selfish part of me wanted to see this game keep going, as I wanted to see Persia and Quebec go at it over the Europe/Russia border, giving the map a good test. But, I also see that if they did that Ociania and Amazon had enough control over the oceans to make their lives miserable. I really thought a 2-way was in the cards. But that is not to be.
I'd love to hear your comments both about the game and the map. I continue to tweak and test to try to make it better.
mvp
--
Gino Karczewski
765 Amsterdam Avenue #10-J
New York, NY 10025
917-434-9008 Mobile
646-807-4702 Fax |
