Im not smart enough clearly!




From: Sean O'Donnell <sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com>
To: Andrew Tanner <amtrating(at)gmail.com>; Michael Norton mjn82 DC <mjn82(at)yahoo.com>
Cc: Nick Powell DrSwordopolis DC <nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com>; Jerome Payne DC jerome777 <jerome777(at)ymail.com>; Gino Karczewski <gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com>; Warren Fleming alwayshunted DC <alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com>; Viper Michael Penner GM <worldwidegm(at)gmail.com>; max victory <maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk>; Tim Crosby 2
<timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com>; dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com; Douglas 2 <dougray30(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, 25 June 2012, 19:01
Subject: RE: DC399 Congo EGS




"Gino Im sorry I had to stab you because it worked well, but I could see to get into the finishing phase I needed to grow quick and so.....and Sean- dont ever say 'its over for me', as I translated that to be 'I give up' which is why I stabbed you at the end."

Thank you for the memory jog, Max. If I recall correctly, you're referring to the point China, you, and I had started to diverge strategically and tactically. I was very confident that the only way to convince Quebec to halt his attack was seek a way for Europe to be useful or to force units to withdrawal or to turn the tables. Unfortunately, China and Mexico were effectively becoming tied at the hip at the time, and you were in position to aid China against Oceania. Without achieving a line or establishing usefulness, or forcing Quebec to reallocate his resources, the best I could accomplish was a survival. With China and Mexico
cooperating and I was on the ropes, it really was your best move as it offered you some growth. Quebec and you effectively seemed to have made an effective agreement enabling the 4-way rather than the game ending in a 2-way.

In my opinion, I think that the biggest reason Congo and Sahara seems to get into frequent conflict is because Congo really isn't a viable campaign for Sahara, and Sahara who can be attacked by Quebec, Amazon, Europe, Persia, and Congo really can't afford to commit 6 units to attempt forcing Congo to risk conflict with Amazon or Persia to outflank around the central bottleneck. In my opinion, this creates an incentive for Congo's players to attack Sahara for growth rather than contemplate other targets, and Congo is relatively capable of defending against attacks from Oceania, Persia, and Amazon based on its 5 of 7 choices. I think if Tunisia became part of Algeria, and Acc became a normal province and Niger became the supply
center option Sahara would be much more defensible.

from Sean



Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 10:06:40 -0700
Subject: Re: DC399 Congo EGS
From: amtrating(at)gmail.com
To: mjn82(at)yahoo.com
CC: nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com; jerome777(at)ymail.com; gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com; alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com; worldwidegm(at)gmail.com; maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk; sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com; timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com; dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com

Having played both Oceania and Amazon on this map, I can say I'd have done (and have done) pretty much what Jerome did.  Africa is just such an inviting target, because Sahara and Congo always seem to fear one another, Sahara has an uneasy border with
Europe, and Congo has to watch out for fleets coming across the Indian Ocean.  It is likely they'll be occupied in other directions.

Couple that with the natural Amazon fear that an S/C might develop which could open west so fast he'd have little hope of defending, and I feel like Amazon almost has to move fleets into the Atlantic, which leads to an attack on one or other of the African powers. 

Part of it may be that Amazon has to think in terms of having 2 powers to the east that can hurt him - even if one doesn't stab, the other might.  So some fleets are needed for defense.  But any eastern fleets stoke fears in Congo/Sahara and represent an investment that begs to be used offensively.  Add to that the relative difficulty of Oceania/Amazon to attack one another without showing their hand via build center selection, build type, or moves, and I think Amazon is naturally drawn east.

I'm curious though to
see how other players feel about the position. 

Does everyone pretty much agree that Oceania is too easily defended?  Just for debate, I have to suggest that China is kryptonite to Oceania, and if tension can be reduced between China/Persia and China/Russia  then that might balance Oceania.

Maybe eliminate the Arctic from being an immediate concern by moving Vladivostok's SC to Korea?


On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 8:23 AM, Michael Norton <mjn82(at)yahoo.com> wrote:


OK  now having received Amazons EGS  I have a question for the group.  My approach to the A/C border was to give him some latitude so that he felt safe and could move in the other direction,  towards Oceania.  He took this as an opening instead to go for me.  Would you have played it differently, and if so , how?  Always nice to learn from others and evolve your game.
 
Also,  anyone headed to Chicago this summer for the world Diplomacy championships??



From: Michael Norton <mjn82(at)yahoo.com>
To: Nick Powell <nick.s.powell(at)gmail.com>; Andrew Tanner <amtrating(at)gmail.com>
Cc: "jerome777(at)ymail.com" <jerome777(at)ymail.com>; dc399 Gino Karczewski China <gino.karczewski(at)gmail.com>; Warren Fleming <alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com>; Worldwide Diplomacy Gamemaster <worldwidegm(at)gmail.com>; dc399 Max Persia <maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk>; dc399 Sean O'Donnell Europe <sean_o_donnell(at)hotmail.com>; dc399 Tim Crosby Quebec <timothyl.crosby(at)gmail.com>; "dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com" <dc399(at)diplomaticcorp.com>; "dougray30(at)yahoo.com" <dougray30(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 7:14 AM
Subject: Re:
DC399 Mexico EGS



Congrats again to the winning combo and to an excellent GM,
Well, initially I considered two options. An alliance with Sahara and Oceania or Amazon was option 1. An alliance with both O and A, while attacking Sahara then choosing O or A as my permanent partner was plan B. I went with plan B after watching Sahara's initial moves which I thought were somewhat hostile. I may have misread that , but that was how I interpreted it. So I went with plan B and made two mistakes. One Plan B required some help from Amazon on the African continent, which gave him a foothold. Two, I was way too trusting of Amazon and more suspicious of Oceania so I let my west coast weakly defended. Obviously that was too tempting for Amazon and before I knew it I was stretched a unit or two too thin and in trouble.
I had tried to develop a friendship with Persia early on, hoping a strong Persia would offset the potential I saw in Oceania's position. I felt once he grew as a naval power he would be too tough to dislodge. I got that right but Persia was too busy inland with Russia to help in the Indian Ocean. Eventually that investment in Persia ended up critical to my survival. So maybe I got that right. Warren and I managed to help each other here and there to survive but never really worked well enough to restore any real control of Africa. Good job, balancing Quebec and Amazon Warren.
I think an Arctic sea space would help and perhaps an adjustment in the ocean between Oceania and Amazon. I think the map leads Amazon to head east instead of west but then , perhaps I am biased lol.
Thanks again. I especially enjoyed the initial diplomacy prior to establishing initial unit and center positions. nice touch
Mike