| DC 424 Peace Reigns! Final English Comment - Dip_Power_915 (May 18, 2012, 9:11 am) |
Hello all,
Once again, congratulations, Rick, and thanks to the players and staff for an interesting game. I normally reply to each EoG statement to thank the player, answer questions, and offer my perspective, but it is clear that even now, most of you are not interested in what I have to say, so I won't waste any more of our time. If anyone has a question for me, feel free to ask, publically or privately. The one question I have is who voted down the DIAS draw? I know John can't answer that one, and if who did it would rather not say, I can understand, but the game is over, and I'm curious.
Thanks,
Eric.[Reply] |
| DC 424 Peace Reigns! Russian end game - untitled36 (May 18, 2012, 8:00 am) |
I think most players who wanted to speak their piece have done so. So I'll chime in a bit with my thoughts. The bird's eye view is often deceptive, but here's what I saw.
I was consistently impressed with Russia and Italy as they both grew steadily. I even commented to Italy one time that it seemed like people were almost handing him centers and how he made it look so easy, especially for being italy. But I also told him I knew the chips falling his way was actually the result of careful, skilled diplomacy. Russia also continued to grow, almost sneakily. I remember hearing more concern from players about the italian threat than the russian, even though Russia was actually larger. But if Russia was indeed on positive terms with most of his neighbors, this could explain it.
Three things about the game surprised me, especially towards the end:
1) italy and Russia never actually allying. It seemed a natural thing, and it sounds like both parties considered it, but it just never materialized. Obviously, towards the end that alliance was impossible without handing Russia the solo, but circa 1902 when Austria was all but eliminated, I expected to see an alliance develop.
2) Turkey staying loyal to Russia. It seems like there would have been an effort on the part of AI to get T into the fold. And I'm sure there was. It sounds like turkey was unwilling to leave a very solid alliance to side with his mortal enemies. I've been there, where sometimes you'd rather see a good ally win than risk getting yourself eliminated.
3) The perpetual EG fight. Much has been said on this, so I won't rehash it. I really thought we'd see them put aside their differences. But I've also been in their shoes. Sometime you just *can't* work with another player due to personality conflict, or lack of trust, or what have you. It appears this was the case here.
All in all, I enjoyed the game. I did feel like the mood was getting a bit uncomfortable at the end with insults flying every which way. But it speaks well of you that you all would rather call it quits tan let things continue to degenerate.
Thanks for letting me be a part of this, and congrats to Russia on the well deserved win!
John
Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 12:05:26 +0100
Subject: Re: DC 424 Peace Reigns! Russian end game
From: davidknight1955(at)gmail.com
To: rick_powell_2000(at)yahoo.com
CC: dip.power.915(at)gmail.com; amtrating(at)gmail.com; untitled36(at)hotmail.com; bret_pollack(at)hotmail.com; jerome777(at)ymail.com; rich3520(at)aol.com; blitz(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Well done Rick on a very good solo and an even better report. I am afraid that my views will be much more briefly given as I feel that others have covered the ground very well already. Firstly I should just lie to comment on this remark from Eric: ''You promised me Bel in '01, and didn't give it to me.''
In fact Eric was insistent right up to the verge Autumn 01 deadline that he land an army in Belgium. Of course, as Germany, I would not concede this, but he repeatedly kept up the demand. Almost throughout these negotiations I offered him a fleet landing in Belgium, but he was, somewhat tryingly, insistent. This was set against the background of me letting Jerome take Marseilles so that France might be quickly eliminated. I have to say that in retrospect, I think that if anything, I was being over generous to both Eric and Jerome.
Then a couple of hours before the deadline Eric got in touch agreeing to land his fleet rather than army. I am afraid by that time, I was in no mind to let him. In my view he was a guy that I would find very difficult to work with as the game progressed. To be clear, Eric, it was your insistence on landing an army which poisoned our relationship.
From then on, as he rightly says, I perceived him as an enemy until the Russian solo seemed imminent; I am almost certain that he felt the same about me. When the solo seemed possible I was more than prepared to work with him, especially using the good offices of Andrew. Eric, however, would not do what was necessary to stop the solo. He seemed, at least to my eyes, more intent on recovering Belgium, giving, as a reason, some really left-field remark about the Russian threat to Liverpool, when he was in Wales and Jerome was in the NAO. Finally, all that was needed to establish the stalemate line was a nudge on the Baltic Sea from Denmark, but again Eric would not do so. It was at this point that I felt to play on was pointless.
Finally I love Rick's message when he stabbed me, which went along the lines of: ''I am sure that my recent moves did not surprise you......'' I will like to use that one myself if I may  . Super-finally Jerome is quite right about the useless counter-productive round robin emails. I did not initiate this chain , but do regret taking part. They served no useful purpose. Perhaps with other players it might have been different, who knows?
Thank you all for playing and the mods for moderating. Best wishes and good luck to all in their future games David
On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 10:20 AM, rick powell <rick_powell_2000(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
Well I will not get drawn into any name calling.. I enjoyed the game for its own merits and I enjoyed meeting all of you.
GM : excellent.. Thank you John.. you coped with my rambling questions excellently. Thank you. The game:I had one big issue here.. I kind of liked you all a bit too much and couldnt decide who to side with at first.
I have played a coulpe of Blitz games in the past and entered this one with some trepidation as I keep coming across established cliques which are hard to break into as a newbie to the site. But because of this I really wanted some strong alliances and I was prepared to sacrifice a fair bit to make those alliances
work. Initially, I,G,E, A & T all seemed really nice.. in the north I decided to tie it all up and avoid picking sides.. then I started to fall out with England a little who's views didnt quite match with mine so I was seriously thinking of Allying with Germany.. I was a little concerned as he had grown quite a bit due to Frances problems but I was about to ally with him in a major way when he stabbed me.. From that point I decided to play the wounded player role and help England. I may have been open to further negotiations but Germany was always difficult to get a decision from so my alliance was cemented..
For info.. at the end I was 100% behind Eric and would not have stabbed him.In the south I set off cautiously but i started to suspect there was something Lepanto'ish going on.. and Im delighted I called it right.. (nice plan
guys).For that reason I was very cautious about hurting Turkey in any way initially, and when the 2 Austrian builds presented themselves I took them.. Soory Andrew.. it was the combination of I had to attack someone and initially Turkey seemed in a better position.. (classic Austrian connundrum).. after that communication between Italy & Austria just cemented my view that they were in each others pockets.. not least the outrage by Austria that I was in his centres but the complete acceptance that it was ok for Italy to be in the third... From that point my other key alliance was formed.. despite numerous opportunities I had zero intention to stab Rich (Turkey) and the alliance was strong.. until I screwed up one set of orders (Bud & Bul are so similar) but luckily we out guessed the other 2 and came out of the turn on top. Had the game continued I think that we would have done well in the south as long as I could convince
Turkey to keep on working with me.. We did have some synergy going on And WHAT was with Italy convoying Aus to Tun !!!! ?? Bizarre.
As the mid game came around the inevitable kick back due to my ever growing force started.. I had completely alienated Andrew.. I really liked Jerome (Italy) but we just couldnt find enough common ground.. Germany became increasingly distant and I became aware that GEAI were trying to work against me... but the kicker was that they werent doing it in a very inclusive way.. From what I can see they asked .. no demanded.. England defend me but leave himself open to potential stabs from them (no idea whther those stabs would have come but I suspect the fear was well founded). I did fan those flames of doubt with a few well placed comments but I only pointed out what was already there.
I am
not sure what I would have done if I were in Englands shoes but I do understand his views.. but I also understand the frustration of the others who could see me growing but were unable to prevent it without a united front.
In the end I do believe that my expansion was limited unless I could have forged a major alliance with England.. and who knows.. maybe that might have been possible.. at the end of the day I didnt expect much more than a 6 way finish (possibly a little less if Italy finished off Austria in the final turns) so the result of a solo has just blown me away.. Thank you all..
SummaryGM: excellent solid jobEng: Good strategy and a nice guy.. sometimes hard to negotiate with if he disagrees with your position (but arent we all?)
Ita: Excellent tactician. Shame we
never had an opportunity to team up properlyTur: Awesome ally, solid tactician.Ger: Obviously a great player. Was difficult to predict at times.. Fra: Did he actually play ?
Aus: Really nice guy in the wrong place. Would have loved to have worked with you but the alliance with Italy made that hard. Thanks and I hope we meet again (and you can whoop my ar&e in revenge ...
[Reply] |
| DC 424 Peace Reigns! Russian end game-Turkey - RICH3520 (May 18, 2012, 7:58 am) |
I wish I had the time to write as detailed a report as some of you do. I
just starting playing again last year after a very long absence and have learned
I must work on my communication skills.
When nobody move
against Russia the first year that put him in a very strong position. When
France skipped the first turn Germany and England should have divided her up
quickly and Germany move against Russia and England into the Med.but
there seems to be some personal conflict between the two players.
I
sensed Austria and Italy were plotting against me so I felt I had
little choice but to work with Russia. I made some weak moves and got myself
boxed in the corner unable to do much of anything. I found the Russian Rick to
be a very good ally. Although the moves we made for the most part only benefited
Russia I really did not see any alternative. He kept his word to me when he
could have finished me off and I would have stuck with him to the end. A
well deserved win.
Rich Sloper
[Reply] |
| DC 424 Peace Reigns! Russian end game - diplomat1 (May 18, 2012, 6:05 am) |
Well done Rick on a very good solo and an even better report. I am afraid that my views will be much more briefly given as I feel that others have covered the ground very well already. Firstly I should just lie to comment on this remark from Eric: ''You promised me Bel in '01, and didn't give it to me.''
In fact Eric was insistent right up to the verge Autumn 01 deadline that he land an army in Belgium. Of course, as Germany, I would not concede this, but he repeatedly kept up the demand. Almost throughout these negotiations I offered him a fleet landing in Belgium, but he was, somewhat tryingly, insistent. This was set against the background of me letting Jerome take Marseilles so that France might be quickly eliminated. I have to say that in retrospect, I think that if anything, I was being over generous to both Eric and Jerome.
Then a couple of hours before the deadline Eric got in touch agreeing to land his fleet rather than army. I am afraid by that time, I was in no mind to let him. In my view he was a guy that I would find very difficult to work with as the game progressed. To be clear, Eric, it was your insistence on landing an army which poisoned our relationship.
From then on, as he rightly says, I perceived him as an enemy until the Russian solo seemed imminent; I am almost certain that he felt the same about me. When the solo seemed possible I was more than prepared to work with him, especially using the good offices of Andrew. Eric, however, would not do what was necessary to stop the solo. He seemed, at least to my eyes, more intent on recovering Belgium, giving, as a reason, some really left-field remark about the Russian threat to Liverpool, when he was in Wales and Jerome was in the NAO. Finally, all that was needed to establish the stalemate line was a nudge on the Baltic Sea from Denmark, but again Eric would not do so. It was at this point that I felt to play on was pointless.
Finally I love Rick's message when he stabbed me, which went along the lines of: ''I am sure that my recent moves did not surprise you......'' I will like to use that one myself if I may . Super-finally Jerome is quite right about the useless counter-productive round robin emails. I did not initiate this chain , but do regret taking part. They served no useful purpose. Perhaps with other players it might have been different, who knows?
Thank you all for playing and the mods for moderating. Best wishes and good luck to all in their future games David
On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 10:20 AM, rick powell <rick_powell_2000(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
Well I will not get drawn into any name calling.. I enjoyed the game for its own merits and I enjoyed meeting all of you.
GM : excellent.. Thank you John.. you coped with my rambling questions excellently. Thank you. The game:I had one big issue here.. I kind of liked you all a bit too much and couldnt decide who to side with at first.
I have played a coulpe of Blitz games in the past and entered this one with some trepidation as I keep coming across established cliques which are hard to break into as a newbie to the site. But because of this I really wanted some strong alliances and I was prepared to sacrifice a fair bit to make those alliances
work. Initially, I,G,E, A & T all seemed really nice.. in the north I decided to tie it all up and avoid picking sides.. then I started to fall out with England a little who's views didnt quite match with mine so I was seriously thinking of Allying with Germany.. I was a little concerned as he had grown quite a bit due to Frances problems but I was about to ally with him in a major way when he stabbed me.. From that point I decided to play the wounded player role and help England. I may have been open to further negotiations but Germany was always difficult to get a decision from so my alliance was cemented..
For info.. at the end I was 100% behind Eric and would not have stabbed him.In the south I set off cautiously but i started to suspect there was something Lepanto'ish going on.. and Im delighted I called it right.. (nice plan
guys).For that reason I was very cautious about hurting Turkey in any way initially, and when the 2 Austrian builds presented themselves I took them.. Soory Andrew.. it was the combination of I had to attack someone and initially Turkey seemed in a better position.. (classic Austrian connundrum).. after that communication between Italy & Austria just cemented my view that they were in each others pockets.. not least the outrage by Austria that I was in his centres but the complete acceptance that it was ok for Italy to be in the third... From that point my other key alliance was formed.. despite numerous opportunities I had zero intention to stab Rich (Turkey) and the alliance was strong.. until I screwed up one set of orders (Bud & Bul are so similar) but luckily we out guessed the other 2 and came out of the turn on top. Had the game continued I think that we would have done well in the south as long as I could convince
Turkey to keep on working with me.. We did have some synergy going on And WHAT was with Italy convoying Aus to Tun !!!! ?? Bizarre.
As the mid game came around the inevitable kick back due to my ever growing force started.. I had completely alienated Andrew.. I really liked Jerome (Italy) but we just couldnt find enough common ground.. Germany became increasingly distant and I became aware that GEAI were trying to work against me... but the kicker was that they werent doing it in a very inclusive way.. From what I can see they asked .. no demanded.. England defend me but leave himself open to potential stabs from them (no idea whther those stabs would have come but I suspect the fear was well founded). I did fan those flames of doubt with a few well placed comments but I only pointed out what was already there.
I am
not sure what I would have done if I were in Englands shoes but I do understand his views.. but I also understand the frustration of the others who could see me growing but were unable to prevent it without a united front.
In the end I do believe that my expansion was limited unless I could have forged a major alliance with England.. and who knows.. maybe that might have been possible.. at the end of the day I didnt expect much more than a 6 way finish (possibly a little less if Italy finished off Austria in the final turns) so the result of a solo has just blown me away.. Thank you all..
SummaryGM: excellent solid jobEng: Good strategy and a nice guy.. sometimes hard to negotiate with if he disagrees with your position (but arent we all?)
Ita: Excellent tactician. Shame we
never had an opportunity to team up properlyTur: Awesome ally, solid tactician.Ger: Obviously a great player. Was difficult to predict at times.. Fra: Did he actually play ?
Aus: Really nice guy in the wrong place. Would have loved to have worked with you but the alliance with Italy made that hard. Thanks and I hope we meet again (and you can whoop my ar&e in revenge ...
[Reply] |
| DC421 - Winter 1906 Russia - catsfather (May 18, 2012, 5:44 am) |
retreat both otb
build a war
On 18 May 2012 01:04, C Morse wrote:
Hi, Guys!
Busy, busy turn. Hellzapoppin!
END OF GAME PROPOSAL:
Proposal for Turkish solo fails. (Shock!)
HIGHLIGHTS:
The IT Crowd continue to put the hurt on Jenn... I mean France. Marseilles
and Spain both fall to the Beasts from the East.
France completes conquest of British Isles
The EG-heads eject Russia from Norway and St. Pete, respectively. England
survives at least one more year.
AR team up to attack Berlin, but French help saves the German capital.
And nobody attacks Turkey. (Just because we didn't vote him the win doesn't
mean he isn't a swell guy.)
RETREATS DUE:
One from France and two from Russia.
French F Spain(sc) can retreat to Portugal or OTB.
Russian A Norway can retreat to Finland or OTB.
Russian A St Petersburg can retreat to Livonia or Moscow or OTB.
ADJUSTMENTS:
Just a wee bit more complicated than usual this turn... which is cool for
this stage of the game, says me.
Austria: Even
England: Down 1
France: Down 1, or even if F Spain retreats OTB
Germany: Up 1
Italy: Up 1
Russia: Down 1, or Even if one unit retreats OTB, or Plus 1 if both units
retreat OTB
Turkey: Up 1
See charts below for full ownership details and SC counts.
NEXT DEADLINE:
Combined Autumn 1906 (retreats) and Winter 1906 (adjustments) orders are due
tomorrow, Friday, May 18, by 18:00 Eastern time.
Cheers,
Chris
Orders as resolved. Please notify the GM immediately if you spot an error.
=======================================================
Austria:
A Budapest Supports A Vienna
A Munich Supports A Silesia - Berlin (*Cut*)
A Vienna Supports A Budapest
England:
F Barents Sea Supports F North Sea - Norway
F North Sea - Norway
France:
A Belgium - Ruhr
A Burgundy - Munich (*Bounce*)
F Edinburgh - North Atlantic Ocean (*Fails*)
F English Channel Supports F Mid-Atlantic Ocean
A Gascony Supports F Spain(sc) - Marseilles
A London Hold
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean Supports A Gascony (*Cut*)
F Spain(sc) - Marseilles (*Dislodged*)
Germany:
A Berlin - Munich (*Bounce*)
F Denmark - Sweden
F Finland - St Petersburg(sc)
F Gulf of Bothnia Supports F Finland - St Petersburg(sc)
A Holland - Kiel
Italy:
F Gulf of Lyon Supports A Marseilles
F North Africa - Mid-Atlantic Ocean (*Fails*)
A Piedmont Supports A Marseilles
F Western Mediterranean - Spain(sc)
Russia:
A Galicia - Ukraine
A Norway Supports A St Petersburg (*Dislodged*)
F Rumania Hold
A Silesia - Berlin (*Fails*)
A St Petersburg Supports A Norway (*Dislodged*)
Turkey:
F Adriatic Sea Supports A Trieste
F Eastern Mediterranean - Aegean Sea
F Ionian Sea Hold
A Marseilles Supports F Western Mediterranean - Spain(sc)
A Serbia Supports A Trieste
A Trieste Hold
F Tyrrhenian Sea - Western Mediterranean
=======================================================
Ownership:
Austria: Budapest, Munich, Vienna.
England: London, Norway.
France: Belgium, Brest, Edinburgh, Liverpool, London, Paris, Portugal.
Germany: Berlin, Denmark, Holland, Kiel, Sweden.
Italy: Naples, Rome, Spain, Tunis, Venice.
Russia: Moscow, Rumania, Sevastopol, Warsaw.
Turkey: Ankara, Bulgaria, Constantinople, Greece, Marseilles, Serbia,
Smyrna, Trieste.
Adjustments:
Austria: Supp 3 Unit 3 Build 0
England: Supp 1 Unit 2 Remove 1
France: Supp 7 Unit 8 Remove 1 or Even (based on retreats)
Germany: Supp 6 Unit 5 Build 1
Italy: Supp 5 Unit 4 Build 1
Russia: Supp 4 Unit 5 Remove 1 or Even or Plus1 (based on retreats)
Turkey: Supp 8 Unit 7 Build 1[Reply] |
| DC 424 Peace Reigns! Russian end game - rickyp (May 18, 2012, 4:20 am) |
Well I will not get drawn into any name calling.. I enjoyed the game for its own merits and I enjoyed meeting all of you. GM : excellent.. Thank you John.. you coped with my rambling questions excellently. Thank you. The game:I had one big issue here.. I kind of liked you all a bit too much and couldnt decide who to side with at first.I have played a coulpe of Blitz games in the past and entered this one with some trepidation as I keep coming across established cliques which are hard to break into as a newbie to the site. But because of this I really wanted some strong alliances and I was prepared to sacrifice a fair bit to make those alliances
work. Initially, I,G,E, A & T all seemed really nice.. in the north I decided to tie it all up and avoid picking sides.. then I started to fall out with England a little who's views didnt quite match with mine so I was seriously thinking of Allying with Germany.. I was a little concerned as he had grown quite a bit due to Frances problems but I was about to ally with him in a major way when he stabbed me.. From that point I decided to play the wounded player role and help England. I may have been open to further negotiations but Germany was always difficult to get a decision from so my alliance was cemented..For info.. at the end I was 100% behind Eric and would not have stabbed him.In the south I set off cautiously but i started to suspect there was something Lepanto'ish going on.. and Im delighted I called it right.. (nice plan
guys).For that reason I was very cautious about hurting Turkey in any way initially, and when the 2 Austrian builds presented themselves I took them.. Soory Andrew.. it was the combination of I had to attack someone and initially Turkey seemed in a better position.. (classic Austrian connundrum).. after that communication between Italy & Austria just cemented my view that they were in each others pockets.. not least the outrage by Austria that I was in his centres but the complete acceptance that it was ok for Italy to be in the third... From that point my other key alliance was formed.. despite numerous opportunities I had zero intention to stab Rich (Turkey) and the alliance was strong.. until I screwed up one set of orders (Bud & Bul are so similar) but luckily we out guessed the other 2 and came out of the turn on top. Had the game continued I think that we would have done well in the south as long as I could convince
Turkey to keep on working with me.. We did have some synergy going on And WHAT was with Italy convoying Aus to Tun !!!! ?? Bizarre. As the mid game came around the inevitable kick back due to my ever growing force started.. I had completely alienated Andrew.. I really liked Jerome (Italy) but we just couldnt find enough common ground.. Germany became increasingly distant and I became aware that GEAI were trying to work against me... but the kicker was that they werent doing it in a very inclusive way.. From what I can see they asked .. no demanded.. England defend me but leave himself open to potential stabs from them (no idea whther those stabs would have come but I suspect the fear was well founded). I did fan those flames of doubt with a few well placed comments but I only pointed out what was already there.I am
not sure what I would have done if I were in Englands shoes but I do understand his views.. but I also understand the frustration of the others who could see me growing but were unable to prevent it without a united front. In the end I do believe that my expansion was limited unless I could have forged a major alliance with England.. and who knows.. maybe that might have been possible.. at the end of the day I didnt expect much more than a 6 way finish (possibly a little less if Italy finished off Austria in the final turns) so the result of a solo has just blown me away.. Thank you all.. SummaryGM: excellent solid jobEng: Good strategy and a nice guy.. sometimes hard to negotiate with if he disagrees with your position (but arent we all?)Ita: Excellent tactician. Shame we
never had an opportunity to team up properlyTur: Awesome ally, solid tactician.Ger: Obviously a great player. Was difficult to predict at times.. Fra: Did he actually play ?Aus: Really nice guy in the wrong place. Would have loved to have worked with you but the alliance with Italy made that hard. Thanks and I hope we meet again (and you can whoop my ar&e in revenge ... [Reply] |
| DC 424 Peace Reigns! Russian end game (Winter Blitz) diplomat1 May 18, 06:05 am |
Well done Rick on a very good solo and an even better report. I am afraid that my views will be much more briefly given as I feel that others have covered the ground very well already. Firstly I should just lie to comment on this remark from Eric: ''You promised me Bel in '01, and didn't give it to me.''
In fact Eric was insistent right up to the verge Autumn 01 deadline that he land an army in Belgium. Of course, as Germany, I would not concede this, but he repeatedly kept up the demand. Almost throughout these negotiations I offered him a fleet landing in Belgium, but he was, somewhat tryingly, insistent. This was set against the background of me letting Jerome take Marseilles so that France might be quickly eliminated. I have to say that in retrospect, I think that if anything, I was being over generous to both Eric and Jerome.
Then a couple of hours before the deadline Eric got in touch agreeing to land his fleet rather than army. I am afraid by that time, I was in no mind to let him. In my view he was a guy that I would find very difficult to work with as the game progressed. To be clear, Eric, it was your insistence on landing an army which poisoned our relationship.
From then on, as he rightly says, I perceived him as an enemy until the Russian solo seemed imminent; I am almost certain that he felt the same about me. When the solo seemed possible I was more than prepared to work with him, especially using the good offices of Andrew. Eric, however, would not do what was necessary to stop the solo. He seemed, at least to my eyes, more intent on recovering Belgium, giving, as a reason, some really left-field remark about the Russian threat to Liverpool, when he was in Wales and Jerome was in the NAO. Finally, all that was needed to establish the stalemate line was a nudge on the Baltic Sea from Denmark, but again Eric would not do so. It was at this point that I felt to play on was pointless.
Finally I love Rick's message when he stabbed me, which went along the lines of: ''I am sure that my recent moves did not surprise you......'' I will like to use that one myself if I may . Super-finally Jerome is quite right about the useless counter-productive round robin emails. I did not initiate this chain , but do regret taking part. They served no useful purpose. Perhaps with other players it might have been different, who knows?
Thank you all for playing and the mods for moderating. Best wishes and good luck to all in their future games David
On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 10:20 AM, rick powell <rick_powell_2000(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
Well I will not get drawn into any name calling.. I enjoyed the game for its own merits and I enjoyed meeting all of you.
GM : excellent.. Thank you John.. you coped with my rambling questions excellently. Thank you. The game:I had one big issue here.. I kind of liked you all a bit too much and couldnt decide who to side with at first.
I have played a coulpe of Blitz games in the past and entered this one with some trepidation as I keep coming across established cliques which are hard to break into as a newbie to the site. But because of this I really wanted some strong alliances and I was prepared to sacrifice a fair bit to make those alliances
work. Initially, I,G,E, A & T all seemed really nice.. in the north I decided to tie it all up and avoid picking sides.. then I started to fall out with England a little who's views didnt quite match with mine so I was seriously thinking of Allying with Germany.. I was a little concerned as he had grown quite a bit due to Frances problems but I was about to ally with him in a major way when he stabbed me.. From that point I decided to play the wounded player role and help England. I may have been open to further negotiations but Germany was always difficult to get a decision from so my alliance was cemented..
For info.. at the end I was 100% behind Eric and would not have stabbed him.In the south I set off cautiously but i started to suspect there was something Lepanto'ish going on.. and Im delighted I called it right.. (nice plan
guys).For that reason I was very cautious about hurting Turkey in any way initially, and when the 2 Austrian builds presented themselves I took them.. Soory Andrew.. it was the combination of I had to attack someone and initially Turkey seemed in a better position.. (classic Austrian connundrum).. after that communication between Italy & Austria just cemented my view that they were in each others pockets.. not least the outrage by Austria that I was in his centres but the complete acceptance that it was ok for Italy to be in the third... From that point my other key alliance was formed.. despite numerous opportunities I had zero intention to stab Rich (Turkey) and the alliance was strong.. until I screwed up one set of orders (Bud & Bul are so similar) but luckily we out guessed the other 2 and came out of the turn on top. Had the game continued I think that we would have done well in the south as long as I could convince
Turkey to keep on working with me.. We did have some synergy going on And WHAT was with Italy convoying Aus to Tun !!!! ?? Bizarre.
As the mid game came around the inevitable kick back due to my ever growing force started.. I had completely alienated Andrew.. I really liked Jerome (Italy) but we just couldnt find enough common ground.. Germany became increasingly distant and I became aware that GEAI were trying to work against me... but the kicker was that they werent doing it in a very inclusive way.. From what I can see they asked .. no demanded.. England defend me but leave himself open to potential stabs from them (no idea whther those stabs would have come but I suspect the fear was well founded). I did fan those flames of doubt with a few well placed comments but I only pointed out what was already there.
I am
not sure what I would have done if I were in Englands shoes but I do understand his views.. but I also understand the frustration of the others who could see me growing but were unable to prevent it without a united front.
In the end I do believe that my expansion was limited unless I could have forged a major alliance with England.. and who knows.. maybe that might have been possible.. at the end of the day I didnt expect much more than a 6 way finish (possibly a little less if Italy finished off Austria in the final turns) so the result of a solo has just blown me away.. Thank you all..
SummaryGM: excellent solid jobEng: Good strategy and a nice guy.. sometimes hard to negotiate with if he disagrees with your position (but arent we all?)
Ita: Excellent tactician. Shame we
never had an opportunity to team up properlyTur: Awesome ally, solid tactician.Ger: Obviously a great player. Was difficult to predict at times.. Fra: Did he actually play ?
Aus: Really nice guy in the wrong place. Would have loved to have worked with you but the alliance with Italy made that hard. Thanks and I hope we meet again (and you can whoop my ar&e in revenge ...
|
| DC 424 Peace Reigns! Russian end game (Winter Blitz) untitled36 May 18, 08:00 am |
I think most players who wanted to speak their piece have done so. So I'll chime in a bit with my thoughts. The bird's eye view is often deceptive, but here's what I saw.
I was consistently impressed with Russia and Italy as they both grew steadily. I even commented to Italy one time that it seemed like people were almost handing him centers and how he made it look so easy, especially for being italy. But I also told him I knew the chips falling his way was actually the result of careful, skilled diplomacy. Russia also continued to grow, almost sneakily. I remember hearing more concern from players about the italian threat than the russian, even though Russia was actually larger. But if Russia was indeed on positive terms with most of his neighbors, this could explain it.
Three things about the game surprised me, especially towards the end:
1) italy and Russia never actually allying. It seemed a natural thing, and it sounds like both parties considered it, but it just never materialized. Obviously, towards the end that alliance was impossible without handing Russia the solo, but circa 1902 when Austria was all but eliminated, I expected to see an alliance develop.
2) Turkey staying loyal to Russia. It seems like there would have been an effort on the part of AI to get T into the fold. And I'm sure there was. It sounds like turkey was unwilling to leave a very solid alliance to side with his mortal enemies. I've been there, where sometimes you'd rather see a good ally win than risk getting yourself eliminated.
3) The perpetual EG fight. Much has been said on this, so I won't rehash it. I really thought we'd see them put aside their differences. But I've also been in their shoes. Sometime you just *can't* work with another player due to personality conflict, or lack of trust, or what have you. It appears this was the case here.
All in all, I enjoyed the game. I did feel like the mood was getting a bit uncomfortable at the end with insults flying every which way. But it speaks well of you that you all would rather call it quits tan let things continue to degenerate.
Thanks for letting me be a part of this, and congrats to Russia on the well deserved win!
John
Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 12:05:26 +0100
Subject: Re: DC 424 Peace Reigns! Russian end game
From: davidknight1955(at)gmail.com
To: rick_powell_2000(at)yahoo.com
CC: dip.power.915(at)gmail.com; amtrating(at)gmail.com; untitled36(at)hotmail.com; bret_pollack(at)hotmail.com; jerome777(at)ymail.com; rich3520(at)aol.com; blitz(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Well done Rick on a very good solo and an even better report. I am afraid that my views will be much more briefly given as I feel that others have covered the ground very well already. Firstly I should just lie to comment on this remark from Eric: ''You promised me Bel in '01, and didn't give it to me.''
In fact Eric was insistent right up to the verge Autumn 01 deadline that he land an army in Belgium. Of course, as Germany, I would not concede this, but he repeatedly kept up the demand. Almost throughout these negotiations I offered him a fleet landing in Belgium, but he was, somewhat tryingly, insistent. This was set against the background of me letting Jerome take Marseilles so that France might be quickly eliminated. I have to say that in retrospect, I think that if anything, I was being over generous to both Eric and Jerome.
Then a couple of hours before the deadline Eric got in touch agreeing to land his fleet rather than army. I am afraid by that time, I was in no mind to let him. In my view he was a guy that I would find very difficult to work with as the game progressed. To be clear, Eric, it was your insistence on landing an army which poisoned our relationship.
From then on, as he rightly says, I perceived him as an enemy until the Russian solo seemed imminent; I am almost certain that he felt the same about me. When the solo seemed possible I was more than prepared to work with him, especially using the good offices of Andrew. Eric, however, would not do what was necessary to stop the solo. He seemed, at least to my eyes, more intent on recovering Belgium, giving, as a reason, some really left-field remark about the Russian threat to Liverpool, when he was in Wales and Jerome was in the NAO. Finally, all that was needed to establish the stalemate line was a nudge on the Baltic Sea from Denmark, but again Eric would not do so. It was at this point that I felt to play on was pointless.
Finally I love Rick's message when he stabbed me, which went along the lines of: ''I am sure that my recent moves did not surprise you......'' I will like to use that one myself if I may . Super-finally Jerome is quite right about the useless counter-productive round robin emails. I did not initiate this chain , but do regret taking part. They served no useful purpose. Perhaps with other players it might have been different, who knows?
Thank you all for playing and the mods for moderating. Best wishes and good luck to all in their future games David
On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 10:20 AM, rick powell <rick_powell_2000(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
Well I will not get drawn into any name calling.. I enjoyed the game for its own merits and I enjoyed meeting all of you.
GM : excellent.. Thank you John.. you coped with my rambling questions excellently. Thank you. The game:I had one big issue here.. I kind of liked you all a bit too much and couldnt decide who to side with at first.
I have played a coulpe of Blitz games in the past and entered this one with some trepidation as I keep coming across established cliques which are hard to break into as a newbie to the site. But because of this I really wanted some strong alliances and I was prepared to sacrifice a fair bit to make those alliances
work. Initially, I,G,E, A & T all seemed really nice.. in the north I decided to tie it all up and avoid picking sides.. then I started to fall out with England a little who's views didnt quite match with mine so I was seriously thinking of Allying with Germany.. I was a little concerned as he had grown quite a bit due to Frances problems but I was about to ally with him in a major way when he stabbed me.. From that point I decided to play the wounded player role and help England. I may have been open to further negotiations but Germany was always difficult to get a decision from so my alliance was cemented..
For info.. at the end I was 100% behind Eric and would not have stabbed him.In the south I set off cautiously but i started to suspect there was something Lepanto'ish going on.. and Im delighted I called it right.. (nice plan
guys).For that reason I was very cautious about hurting Turkey in any way initially, and when the 2 Austrian builds presented themselves I took them.. Soory Andrew.. it was the combination of I had to attack someone and initially Turkey seemed in a better position.. (classic Austrian connundrum).. after that communication between Italy & Austria just cemented my view that they were in each others pockets.. not least the outrage by Austria that I was in his centres but the complete acceptance that it was ok for Italy to be in the third... From that point my other key alliance was formed.. despite numerous opportunities I had zero intention to stab Rich (Turkey) and the alliance was strong.. until I screwed up one set of orders (Bud & Bul are so similar) but luckily we out guessed the other 2 and came out of the turn on top. Had the game continued I think that we would have done well in the south as long as I could convince
Turkey to keep on working with me.. We did have some synergy going on And WHAT was with Italy convoying Aus to Tun !!!! ?? Bizarre.
As the mid game came around the inevitable kick back due to my ever growing force started.. I had completely alienated Andrew.. I really liked Jerome (Italy) but we just couldnt find enough common ground.. Germany became increasingly distant and I became aware that GEAI were trying to work against me... but the kicker was that they werent doing it in a very inclusive way.. From what I can see they asked .. no demanded.. England defend me but leave himself open to potential stabs from them (no idea whther those stabs would have come but I suspect the fear was well founded). I did fan those flames of doubt with a few well placed comments but I only pointed out what was already there.
I am
not sure what I would have done if I were in Englands shoes but I do understand his views.. but I also understand the frustration of the others who could see me growing but were unable to prevent it without a united front.
In the end I do believe that my expansion was limited unless I could have forged a major alliance with England.. and who knows.. maybe that might have been possible.. at the end of the day I didnt expect much more than a 6 way finish (possibly a little less if Italy finished off Austria in the final turns) so the result of a solo has just blown me away.. Thank you all..
SummaryGM: excellent solid jobEng: Good strategy and a nice guy.. sometimes hard to negotiate with if he disagrees with your position (but arent we all?)
Ita: Excellent tactician. Shame we
never had an opportunity to team up properlyTur: Awesome ally, solid tactician.Ger: Obviously a great player. Was difficult to predict at times.. Fra: Did he actually play ?
Aus: Really nice guy in the wrong place. Would have loved to have worked with you but the alliance with Italy made that hard. Thanks and I hope we meet again (and you can whoop my ar&e in revenge ...
|
| SV: dc422 Blitz Autumn 06 adjudication - bunwarpgazoo (May 18, 2012, 3:26 am) |
| Hi there,Bye guys, real life interfered with these last two years, unfortunately. It was a fun game while it lasted and I am happy to see players willing to go for a solo win instead of settling for a DIAS. That said, I predict a DIAS with at least three survivors. Remember, the enemy this year can be your ally next year.John [Reply] |
| New Lord Stark Needed! - MattTheLesser (May 18, 2012, 1:05 am) |
DC425, the first playtest of Game of Thrones Diplomacy, needs a new head of House Stark. I won't deny it's a tough position, as the sea has just come to Winterfell, but Winter is Coming and a true northerner may be able to salvage the position. And even if not you'll have my eternal gratitude for saving my playtest from getting completely screwed up.
Please email kremer.matthew(at)gmail.com ASAP if interested.[Reply] |
| dc418 Winter '06 Results - notasb (May 17, 2012, 10:31 pm) |
Board:
Austria - landru428 - Andrew Cassese - eliminated F '05
England - RickHunter - Mike Brady
France - fencertim -Timothy Crosby
Germany - stevec - Steve Cooley
Italy - derekthefeared2 -Derek Eiler
Russia - ddz999cat23 - Daniel Dzikowicz
Turkey - MrSmiley - Will Fleming
GM Note:
- A 3 way draw between France, Russia and Italy has been proposed. Votes are due Monday May 21st with the Spring orders.
Map:
http://home.comcast.net/~dawench/418/41806Winter.gif
Deadline:
Spring '07 is due Monday May 21st 8 AM CDST (GMT -5) 1300 GMT
Orders and Results:
Builds:
France:
Build F Brest
Russia:
Build F St Petersburg(nc)
Build A Moscow
SUpply Center and Unit Count:
Austria: 0 / 0
England: 1 / 1
France: 11 / 11
Germany: 2 / 2
Italy: 9 / 9
Russia: 8 / 8
Turkey: 3 / 3
------------------------
Never take the stress in life, just give it..[Reply] |
| DC 424 Peace Reigns! - Dip_Power_915 (May 17, 2012, 9:01 pm) |
On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 9:36 PM, Andrew Tanner wrote:
Some people play the game for the strategy, some the diplomacy, and some to
argue with every statement they don't agree with. Well, guess it takes all
kinds to construct a demand curve!
All I gotta say Eric, is that in your 30 years and hundred or so games
(including tournaments!), one would think you'd be able to make a better
showing than a 4 center England when France goes down early on in the
game...
I really don't know why you feel the need to insult me just because I
disagree with you, but I wish you well. I'm not a good negotiator; my press
doesn't read friendly, so maybe you just don't like me, that happens to me
in some games. Also, because I have a deep,almost instinctive
understanding of the strategy and tactics of the game, I can come off
sounding arrogant without intending to be that way, and I'm sure that
contributed to it. The fact remains that your approach to me specifically,
and EG in general is what doomed this StL Alliance, not my paranoia, or
my non-existent childish vendetta against Germany for not giving me
Belgium in '01. Think about that and try to learn from this loss.
Thanks,
Eric.[Reply] |
| DC 424 Peace Reigns! - AMT (May 17, 2012, 8:36 pm) |
Some people play the game for the strategy, some the diplomacy, and some to argue with every statement they don't agree with. Well, guess it takes all kinds to construct a demand curve!
All I gotta say Eric, is that in your 30 years and hundred or so games (including tournaments!), one would think you'd be able to make a better showing than a 4 center England when France goes down early on in the game...
On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 5:04 PM, dip.power.915(at)gmail.com <dip.power.915(at)gmail.com> wrote:
> From: "Andrew Tanner" <amtrating(at)gmail.com>
> Of course, it didn't much matter, as England's
> vendetta against Germany stemming from some > drama early in the game kept the two of them
> battling it out even as Russia took centers from > both of them.
I had no vendetta against Germany. Germany attacked England three times, so he may have had a vendetta against England, but that is for David to explain.
> This vendetta led him to sabotage any and all
> attempts to form a line in the north,
Also not true. You proposed lines that were flawed, and which placed undue risk on EG. I offered counter-proposals to address these issues, but was dismissed with personal attacks like the one above.
> he wanted Germany to be eliminated before the
> end of the game.
And again untrue. The only one who proposed eliminating Germany was Italy. I wanted him to remove a Fleet so that he couldn't attack me for a fourth time, if Russia pulled back, but I never called for his elimination.
> He refused to even risk a single center and
> threatened to throw the game to Russia if he
> failed to get his way.
I don't know how many games you've stalemated, Andrew, but over the last 30 years, I've probably been involved in more than 100, and a fair number of those have been tournament games, so let me give you some insight into my thinking, if you can let go of your misconceived ideas about my motivation here.
When a large Power is stalemated, especially in a tournament game, he typically tells the larger Powers on the other side that he won't vote for the Draw unless they eliminate some of the smaller Powers. In this case Rick told me that he wanted Austria, and hopefully Germany, eliminated. This is done to improve the game score, and because it often creates new solo opportunities as the to-be-eliminated Powers try to punish those who are whittling them. Given Germany's frequent and strategically unwise attacks on England, I had to be concerned that he would try to attack me again if Russia pulled back, so I felt I needed a build, and for Germany to disband a Fleet, to have a secure place in the draw. I tried to explain this to you but you came back with this paranoid vendetta nonsense.
> A fairly well known stalemate line runs
> northwest from the Ionian Sea through Greece
> and Trieste, then on up through Munich, Kiel, and > the North/Norwegian Seas. With Russia having
> only 2 fleets up north, the truth of it is that
> England probably could have held Denmark and
> gone on the offensive at the same time while
> Germany and Italy held the line.
All true.
> The calculation is pretty simple: Germany needs
> 5 units to hold Mun and Kie assuming
> Den-Nth-Nwg are in allied hands,
Not quite that simple; Germany needs A Mun, A Ruh, and A Bur, to hold Mun, and two Units to hold Kiel. Your plan to keep F Gas instead of A Mar, to take Bre and have Germany disband A Bre was seriously flawed, either due to incompetence, or intentionally to weaken Germany.
> 6 are needed to hold Den-Skag-Nth-Nwg.
> Collectively, we had the necessary units on
> hand.
But your refusal to give me a build so that I wasn't dependent on questionable German and suspicious Italian support left me feeling I would hold the line only until Russia pulled his Fleets back to Finland and St. Petersburg, at which point I would be stabbed and eliminated. That may not have been your plan, but it seemed a more likely reason for your absolute unwillingness to consider my point of view, and your unjustified character assassination than simple incompetence.
Thanks,
Eric.[Reply] |
| DC 424 Peace Reigns! - Dip_Power_915 (May 17, 2012, 7:04 pm) |
> From: "Andrew Tanner"
Of course, it didn't much matter, as England's
vendetta against Germany stemming from some > drama early in the game kept the two of them
battling it out even as Russia took centers from > both of them.
I had no vendetta against Germany. Germany attacked England three times, so he may have had a vendetta against England, but that is for David to explain.
This vendetta led him to sabotage any and all
attempts to form a line in the north,
Also not true. You proposed lines that were flawed, and which placed undue risk on EG. I offered counter-proposals to address these issues, but was dismissed with personal attacks like the one above.
he wanted Germany to be eliminated before the
end of the game.
And again untrue. The only one who proposed eliminating Germany was Italy. I wanted him to remove a Fleet so that he couldn't attack me for a fourth time, if Russia pulled back, but I never called for his elimination.
He refused to even risk a single center and
threatened to throw the game to Russia if he
failed to get his way.
I don't know how many games you've stalemated, Andrew, but over the last 30 years, I've probably been involved in more than 100, and a fair number of those have been tournament games, so let me give you some insight into my thinking, if you can let go of your misconceived ideas about my motivation here.
When a large Power is stalemated, especially in a tournament game, he typically tells the larger Powers on the other side that he won't vote for the Draw unless they eliminate some of the smaller Powers. In this case Rick told me that he wanted Austria, and hopefully Germany, eliminated. This is done to improve the game score, and because it often creates new solo opportunities as the to-be-eliminated Powers try to punish those who are whittling them. Given Germany's frequent and strategically unwise attacks on England, I had to be concerned that he would try to attack me again if Russia pulled back, so I felt I needed a build, and for Germany to disband a Fleet, to have a secure place in the draw. I tried to explain this to you but you came back with this paranoid vendetta nonsense.
A fairly well known stalemate line runs
northwest from the Ionian Sea through Greece
and Trieste, then on up through Munich, Kiel, and > the North/Norwegian Seas. With Russia having
only 2 fleets up north, the truth of it is that
England probably could have held Denmark and
gone on the offensive at the same time while
Germany and Italy held the line.
All true.
The calculation is pretty simple: Germany needs
5 units to hold Mun and Kie assuming
Den-Nth-Nwg are in allied hands,
Not quite that simple; Germany needs A Mun, A Ruh, and A Bur, to hold Mun, and two Units to hold Kiel. Your plan to keep F Gas instead of A Mar, to take Bre and have Germany disband A Bre was seriously flawed, either due to incompetence, or intentionally to weaken Germany.
6 are needed to hold Den-Skag-Nth-Nwg.
Collectively, we had the necessary units on
hand.
But your refusal to give me a build so that I wasn't dependent on questionable German and suspicious Italian support left me feeling I would hold the line only until Russia pulled his Fleets back to Finland and St. Petersburg, at which point I would be stabbed and eliminated. That may not have been your plan, but it seemed a more likely reason for your absolute unwillingness to consider my point of view, and your unjustified character assassination than simple incompetence.
Thanks,
Eric.[Reply] |
| DC421 - Fall 1906 Results - Corrino (May 17, 2012, 7:04 pm) |
Hi, Guys!
Busy, busy turn. Hellzapoppin!
END OF GAME PROPOSAL:
Proposal for Turkish solo fails. (Shock!)
HIGHLIGHTS:
The IT Crowd continue to put the hurt on Jenn... I mean France. Marseilles and Spain both fall to the Beasts from the East.France completes conquest of British IslesThe EG-heads eject Russia from Norway and St. Pete, respectively. England survives at least one more year.AR team up to attack Berlin, but French help saves the German capital.And nobody attacks Turkey. (Just because we didn't vote him the win doesn't mean he isn't a swell
guy.)
RETREATS DUE:
One from France and two from Russia.
French F Spain(sc) can retreat to Portugal or OTB.
Russian A Norway can retreat to Finland or OTB.Russian A St Petersburg can retreat to Livonia or Moscow or OTB.
ADJUSTMENTS:
Just a wee bit more complicated than usual this turn... which is cool for this stage of the game, says me.
Austria: Even
England: Down
1France: Down 1, or even if F Spain retreats OTBGermany: Up 1Italy: Up 1Russia: Down 1, or Even if one unit retreats OTB, or Plus 1 if both units retreat OTBTurkey: Up 1
See charts below for full ownership details and SC counts.
NEXT DEADLINE:
Combined Autumn 1906
(retreats) and Winter 1906 (adjustments) orders are due tomorrow, Friday, May 18, by 18:00 Eastern time.
Cheers,Chris
Orders as resolved. Please notify the GM immediately if you spot an error.=======================================================Austria:
A Budapest Supports A Vienna
A Munich Supports A Silesia - Berlin (*Cut*)
A Vienna Supports A Budapest
England:
F Barents Sea Supports F North Sea - Norway
F North Sea - Norway
France:
A Belgium - Ruhr
A Burgundy - Munich (*Bounce*)
F Edinburgh - North Atlantic Ocean (*Fails*)
F English Channel Supports F Mid-Atlantic Ocean
A Gascony Supports F Spain(sc) - Marseilles
A London Hold
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean Supports A Gascony (*Cut*)
F Spain(sc) - Marseilles (*Dislodged*)
Germany:
A Berlin - Munich (*Bounce*)
F Denmark
- Sweden
F Finland - St Petersburg(sc)
F Gulf of Bothnia Supports F Finland - St Petersburg(sc)
A Holland - Kiel
Italy:
F Gulf of Lyon Supports A Marseilles
F North Africa - Mid-Atlantic Ocean (*Fails*)
A Piedmont Supports A Marseilles
F Western Mediterranean - Spain(sc)
Russia:
A Galicia - Ukraine
A Norway Supports A St Petersburg (*Dislodged*)
F Rumania Hold
A Silesia - Berlin (*Fails*)
A St Petersburg Supports A Norway (*Dislodged*)
Turkey:
F Adriatic Sea Supports A Trieste
F Eastern Mediterranean - Aegean Sea
F Ionian Sea Hold
A Marseilles Supports F Western Mediterranean - Spain(sc)
A Serbia Supports A Trieste
A Trieste Hold
F Tyrrhenian Sea - Western Mediterranean
=======================================================
Ownership:
Austria: Budapest, Munich, Vienna.
England: London,
Norway.
France: Belgium, Brest, Edinburgh, Liverpool, London, Paris, Portugal.
Germany: Berlin, Denmark, Holland, Kiel, Sweden.
Italy: Naples, Rome, Spain, Tunis, Venice.
Russia: Moscow, Rumania, Sevastopol, Warsaw.
Turkey: Ankara, Bulgaria, Constantinople, Greece, Marseilles, Serbia, Smyrna, Trieste.
Adjustments:
Austria: Supp 3 Unit 3 Build 0
England: Supp 1 Unit 2 Remove 1
France: Supp 7 Unit 8 Remove 1 or Even (based on retreats)
Germany: Supp 6 Unit 5 Build 1
Italy: Supp 5 Unit 4 Build 1
Russia: Supp 4 Unit 5 Remove 1 or Even or Plus1 (based on retreats)
Turkey: Supp 8 Unit 7 Build
1[Reply] |
| dc419 fall 1906 results! - coryfucius (May 17, 2012, 5:35 pm) |
We have our first elimination, as Italy and Russia take over the two remaining English centers. Thanks for playing, Mick! The only other center to change hands this turn is Kiel, as Germany overwhelms the Russian defender. Three units are dislodged:
The English fleet in Norway may retreat to Barents Sea, Norwegian Sea, Skagerrak, or OTB.
The Russian army in Kiel
has no valid retreats and is destroyed. The Turkish fleet in Aegean Sea may retreat to Constantinople or OTB. Since the English fleet won't survive the winter anyway, I'm going to go ahead and order the Turkish retreat. Charles, if you want to retreat OTB instead, please let me know. Winter 1906 adjustments will be as follows:
England: remove 1 (eliminated)
Germany: build 1
Italy: build 1
Russia: build 1
Turkey: no change (or build 1 if retreat OTB) The winter 1906 adjustment orders will be due tomorrow, Friday 5/18 at 3pm Central (US) / 20:00
GMT. Thanks! Cory ----- Fall 1906 results: Austria:
A Budapest Supports A Vienna
A Serbia - Bulgaria (*Fails*)
A Trieste - Serbia (*Fails*)
A Vienna Supports A Budapest England:
F North Atlantic Ocean - Clyde
F Norway - North Sea (*Dislodged*) France:
A Brest Hold
F English Channel - London
F Irish Sea - Liverpool Germany:
A Belgium - Ruhr
A Berlin Supports A Munich - Kiel
F Holland Supports A Munich - Kiel
A Munich - Kiel
F North Sea - Norway (*Fails*)
A Paris
Supports A Brest - Gascony (*Void*) Italy:
F Eastern Mediterranean Supports F Ionian Sea - Aegean Sea
A Greece Supports F Rumania - Bulgaria(ec) (*Void*)
F Ionian Sea - Aegean Sea
A Marseilles - Burgundy
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean - English Channel
F Spain(sc) - Portugal
A Venice Hold Russia:
F Black Sea Supports A Bulgaria
A Denmark - London (*Fails*)
A Galicia Supports F Rumania
A Kiel Hold (*Disbanded*)
F Rumania Hold
F St Petersburg(nc) - Norway
F Sweden Supports F St Petersburg(nc) - Norway
A Warsaw - Silesia Turkey:
F Aegean Sea - Greece (*Dislodged*)
A
Ankara Supports F Constantinople - Smyrna
A Bulgaria
Supports F Aegean Sea - Greece (*Cut*)
F Constantinople - Smyrna ----- Autumn 1906 retreats: England:
disband F Norway Turkey:
F Aegean Sea - Constantinople[Reply] |
| DC 424 Italy EOG - jerome777 (May 17, 2012, 4:44 pm) |
Italy EOG:
Hi guys,
I agree with a great deal of Andrew's thoughts in his EOG, particularly over the stalemate line issue, though I'd like to add some thoughts of my own.
Firstly, well done to Rick, an excellent and well deserved solo I thought. You're a strong tactician and a worthy opponent, hope you end up near the top of the Blitz tables.
The move Andrew was referring to between him and me was the 'Blue Water Lepanto', the subject of an excellent article I read some time ago and was fascinated by, and wanted a chance to try to put into action sometime. The move is actually supposed to be an Austrian opening, rather than Italian, but I convinced Andrew to give it a go. Unfortunately, Andrew collapsed to his north before we had the chance to follow it right through - though pleasingly, I did at least get two fleets to Turkey's coast that helped for most of the game.
See article here:
http://devel.diplom.org/Zine/W1999A/Hand/bwl.html
Rick and I flirted with the idea of working together throughout the game, and I regret that a true opportunity to do so never arose - but I just couldn't see past the threat of the RT juggernaut, and so decided that I couldn't really leave the defensive line that Andrew and I were trying to put together. To some extent my ambition to work with Rick was a victim of his speedy success (if that makes sense) - had Rick advanced more slowly via a better Austrian defence, or had Rick shown signs of being willing to abandon the Turk, maybe things could have been different.
Desparate for some action, I made northwards movements around Gibraltar in the hope of something happening more than anything else. I had no set plan as to whether to attack England, or Germany, or how to do it, I thought I'd see how things developed before I got there. At first I was enjoying the discord between England and Germany, seeing it as a possible opportunity to capitalise upon, but then the tone of the emails changed and over time I became less and less interested in arguing the toss about stalemate lines and what-not, particularly as the tone of the messages deteriorated. Emails aimed at both E and G took on a bullying tone at times, in my opinion.
We probably could have held on and enforced a DIAS, but I just got sick of the catty group emails that were being sent between E and G and copied into the four of us. I just reached the conclusion that we could either die slowly trying to square an impossible circle in the north, or we could just credit Rick with the result and get it over and done with. A bit like pulling a plaster ('Band-Aid' off, really - the sooner you get it done, the less painful it is.
Still, there we are. Thanks to John for being an awesome GM once again, definitely one of the best. I hope to play alongside you in a game one day John, I think that would be real fun. Thanks also to Andrew for being a great ally, despite the screw-ups - it was a real pleasure working alongside you and in trying to put the Blue Water Lepanto into action. I've learned a lot about working together in defence with you in this game.
Thanks also to all of you guys for playing the game, and well done once more to Rick for his excellent win.
Jerome[Reply] |
| DC 424 Peace Reigns! - AMT (May 17, 2012, 4:18 pm) |
Austria EGP:
I've never played Austria before, and made a muddle out of it! Some of that can be chalked up to luck: I pretty much had to hope Turkey or Russia would partner with me, and Russia seemed most willing to entertain the thought. In the end he chose Turkey as his ally, and from that point I was, at best, going to survive.
Fortunately Italy wanted me as an ally and proposed a bold modified lepanto style attack on Turkey at gamestart, which I agreed to. Unfortunately events rapidly spiraled, and we were never able to execute the plan - in large part due to my taking a big risk in trusting that Russia wouldn't attack me right off, and then a foulup in ordering on my part which let him make some moves I'd intended to counter. The result? I lost most of my home centers, and threw most of the rest to Italy in exchange for guaranteed survival.
With a juggernaut to our East, Italy and I figured that working together would be pretty much necessary to have any hope in this game. We agreed to take up blocking positions and try to get Russia or Turkey to switch sides. Didn't work, and a harebrained move idea on my part plus a late order set slowly eroded the stalemate line we had going.
Of course, it didn't much matter, as England's vendetta against Germany stemming from some drama early in the game kept the two of them battling it out even as Russia took centers from both of them. This vendetta led him to sabotage any and all attempts to form a line in the north, as he wanted Germany to be eliminated before the end of the game. He refused to even risk a single center and threatened to throw the game to Russia if he failed to get his way.
A fairly well known stalemate line runs northwest from the Ionian Sea through Greece and Trieste, then on up through Munich, Kiel, and the North/Norwegian Seas. Its not seen much because England's inherent advantage in early fleet position means that it takes some bad turns in the game for Russia or Germany to threaten the line. With Russia having only 2 fleets up north, the truth of it is that England probably could have held Denmark and gone on the offensive at the same time while Germany and Italy held the line. The calculation is pretty simple: Germany needs 5 units to hold Mun and Kie assuming Den-Nth-Nwg are in allied hands, and from Tyr on south is as well. Italy/Austria need 7 total to hold Tyr-Ven-Adr-Ion. Up north 6 are needed to hold Den-Skag-Nth-Nwg. Collectively, we had the necessary units on hand.
And all this assumes a perfect build strategy by the opposition that is perfectly situated - and few opponents are. Russia/Turkey wasn't, so my count of needed units was wholly pessimistic. Russia would need 2 more fleets than he had. With current dispositions, all that was needed to hold Nth-Nwg-Den was 4 fleets in total. Hence, we could technically very easily have effected a stalemate and DIAS.
Alas, wasn't to be. Even though we only discussed eliminating England once he started on his paranoid rants, that is where we were inevitably headed. Although I actually feel the game could have gone on to an inclusive DIAS even if we did have to knock out England, I think everyone got so sick of the infighting that we just wanted to end it with some dignity intact.
Rick, congrats on a well earned solo! You are a savvy and gracious opponent.
On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 8:19 AM, rick powell <rick_powell_2000(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
Well I honestly didnt see that coming.. thank you guys..
I will draw up a prop end game in the next couple of days but thanks to you all for making it a memorable game to say the least and I do hope our paths cross again..
From: John R <untitled36(at)hotmail.com>
To: amtrating(at)gmail.com;
bret_pollack(at)hotmail.com; davidknight1955(at)gmail.com; dip.power.915(at)gmail.com; WB 2011 england 1 <jerome777(at)ymail.com>; wb 2 russia <rich3520(at)aol.com>; England WB 2012 <rick_powell_2000(at)yahoo.com>; blitz(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Sent: Thursday, 17 May 2012, 14:52
Subject: DC 424 Peace Reigns!
Hey all,
Peace reigns in Europe after six years of war. And it appears the only situation agreeable to everyone is.... THE RUSSIAN SOLO! Congrats to the Russian. This will catapult him ahead to the top of the round two standings. The rest of you get a survival, except the eliminated french of course. I'd love to see end of game statments from everyone, especially since in my mind it was still possible to stop Russia, at least in theory. With Turkey helping Russia in the southeast combined with the unrest in the northwest, perhaps in practice it was impossible.
Thanks all! Hopefully we'll see you for the blitz next year!
John
[Reply] |
| dc422 Blitz Autumn 06 adjudication - jerome777 (May 17, 2012, 4:15 pm) |
"Last French army kicked into the Atlantic Ocean!"
"Bloodbath in central Europe as many centres change hands!"
"Royal Navy acts to address national constipation epidemic by seizing Tuinisian date harvest!"
Hi everyone,
Here's the adjudication:
Austria:
F Adriatic Sea Supports A Trieste
A Galicia - Budapest
A Rome Hold
A Trieste Supports A Galicia - Budapest (*Cut*)
A Venice Supports A Trieste
England:
F Irish Sea - Mid-Atlantic Ocean
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean - Portugal
F North Africa - Tunis
A Norway - St Petersburg
F Norwegian Sea - North Sea
F Spain(sc) Supports F Mid-Atlantic Ocean - Portugal
A St Petersburg - Livonia
F Western Mediterranean Supports F North Africa - Tunis
France:
A Portugal, no move received (*Disbanded*)
Germany:
A Bohemia Supports A Vienna
A Burgundy Hold
F Helgoland Bight Hold
A Munich - Tyrolia
A Piedmont Supports A Munich - Tyrolia
A Silesia Supports A Warsaw
A Vienna Supports A Galicia - Budapest
A Warsaw Supports A St Petersburg - Livonia (*Cut*)
Italy:
F Albania - Trieste (*Fails*)
A Naples - Rome (*Fails*)
F Tunis Supports F Ionian Sea - Tyrrhenian Sea (*Disbanded*)
Turkey:
F Aegean Sea - Greece
A Armenia - Sevastopol
F Black Sea - Rumania
F Eastern Mediterranean - Ionian Sea
A Greece - Serbia
F Ionian Sea - Tyrrhenian Sea
A Moscow Supports A Ukraine - Warsaw
A Rumania - Galicia
A Ukraine - Warsaw (*Fails*)
And so it is with real sadness that we bid a fond farewell to our French player. So long John, thanks for playing!
No retreats are needed, so we press straight on with the builds and disbands:
Austria: Supp 4 Unit 5 Remove 1
England: Supp 10 Unit 8 Build 2
France: Supp 0 Unit 0 Build 0
Germany: Supp 10 Unit 8 Build 2
Italy: Supp 1 Unit 2 Remove 1
Russia: Supp 0 Unit 0 Build 0
Turkey: Supp 9 Unit 9 Build 0
Please get these to me by the deadline, 2000GMT tomorrow.
Take care y'all,
Jerome[Reply] |
| dc422 Blitz Autumn 06 adjudication (Winter Blitz) jerome777 May 18, 05:06 pm |
Hi everyone,
Winter 06:
Austria:
Remove F Adriatic Sea
England:
Build A London
Build F Liverpool
Germany:
Build A Kiel
Build A Munich
Italy:
Remove F Albania
Spring 07 is due Monday 21 May 2000GMT.
Best,
Jerome
|
| DC 424 Peace Reigns! - Dip_Power_915 (May 17, 2012, 3:16 pm) |
-----Original Message-----
Peace reigns in Europe after six years of war. And it appears the only situation agreeable to everyone is.... THE RUSSIAN SOLO! Congrats to the Russian. I'd love to see end of game statments from everyone, especially since in my mind it was still possible to stop Russia, at least in theory. With Turkey helping Russia in the southeast combined with the unrest in the northwest, perhaps in practice it was impossible.
-------------------------------------------------------
Could AEGI acting together have stopped the Russian Solo? If they had acted when I first prroposed it in '03 or '04, certainly. If they had acted appropriately after Fall '05 when Austria proposed it, almost certainly. If we had gotten together this turn? Maybe. If we had processed this turn as ordered? Probably not.
Why didn't we get our act together? Austria was the driving force behind the attempt, but his plans were either faulty, or intentionally crafted to weaken EG, and I wasn't willing to sacrifice my position to stop Russia, just so Italy could eliminate me later.
Eric of England in DC424.[Reply] |
| DC 420: Fall 1906 Adjudication - AceRimmer (May 17, 2012, 3:13 pm) |
He's only got one unit, but what a difference he can make. Let us just say, theoretically, that Italy had ordered a unit that doesn't exist while not ordering a unit that does exist? What would that do? Perhaps save Spain for the French? Yes, perhaps.
In addition, Russia completes his circumnavigation of England with F Wales - London.
In other news over in DC 418... while Rick Hunter's (England's) abandonment has certainly augmented the chances of tournament leader Tim Crosby (France), it appears that Derek Eiler (Italy) has at long last switched sides and is now trying to thwart the French bid to win the Winter Blitz. Is it too late? As of this moment, they have not yet adjudicated Fall 1906:
http://www.diplomaticcorp.com/game_page.php?game_id=dc418
DC 419 is more messy and could still go any of a number of ways.
Back to DC 420, the adjustments this winter reflect Austria's conquest of Kiel combined with France's opportunity to build an army in Spain (thus replacing the fleet lost in Western Med):
Austria: Supp 8 Unit 7 Build 1
England: Supp 3 Unit 4 Remove 1
France: Supp 5 Unit 4 Build 1
Italy: Supp 1 Unit 1 Build 0
Russia: Supp 8 Unit 8 Build 0
Turkey: Supp 9 Unit 9 Build 0
Fall 1906:
Austria:
F Gulf of Lyon Convoys A Tuscany - Spain
A Kiel Supports A Munich - Ruhr
A Munich - Ruhr
A Piedmont Supports F Marseilles
A Rome Hold
A Tuscany - Spain (*Bounce*)
A Tyrolia - Munich
England:
F Clyde Supports F North Sea - Edinburgh
F Holland - Helgoland Bight
F Liverpool Hold
F North Sea - Edinburgh
France:
A Brest Hold
A Burgundy - Marseilles (*Fails*)
A Gascony Supports A Burgundy - Marseilles
F Portugal - Spain(sc) (*Bounce*)
F Western Mediterranean - Gulf of Lyon (*Disbanded*)
Italy:
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean Hold
Russia:
F Denmark - North Sea
F Gulf of Bothnia - Sweden
F Norway Supports F Denmark - North Sea
F Norwegian Sea - Edinburgh (*Fails*)
A Prussia Hold
F Skagerrak Supports F Denmark - North Sea
A Sweden - Denmark
F Wales - London
Turkey:
F Aegean Sea Hold
A Albania Hold
A Berlin Supports A Tyrolia - Munich
F English Channel Supports F Wales - London
F Ionian Sea - Tyrrhenian Sea
F Marseilles Supports A Tuscany - Spain (*Cut*)
F North Africa Supports F Mid-Atlantic Ocean
F Tunis Supports F Tyrrhenian Sea - Western Mediterranean
F Tyrrhenian Sea - Western Mediterranean[Reply] |
| DC399 - Autumn 2008 - Viper (May 17, 2012, 10:20 am) |
Here's our retreat and the statistics telling you what I'm looking for in the Winter. Note that with the official elimination of Europe, those in posession of his home supply centres may trade their own for his. So, Quebec and Persia, let me know if you would like to assume any of those supply centres. That would happen after building.
Mexico:
F Arctic Ocean - Baffin Bay
Stats for Adjustments:
Quebec has 17 sc's - 17 units = No Adjustment Necessary
Mexico has 1 sc - 3 units = 2 disbands
Amazon has 15 sc's - 12 units = 3 builds
Europe has 0 sc's - 0 units = No Adjustment Necessary
Sahara has 3 sc's - 4 units = 1 disband
Congo has 1 sc - 1 unit = No Adjustment Necessary
Persia has 14 sc's - 13 units = 1 build
China has 3 sc's - 4 units = 1 disband
Oceania has 16 sc's - 13 units = 3 builds
Next Deadline:
Winter 2008 adjustments are due on Monday, May 21, at 3pm CDT.
mvp[Reply] |
| DC399 - Autumn 2008 (dc399) Viper May 17, 10:20 am |
Here's our retreat and the statistics telling you what I'm looking for in the Winter. Note that with the official elimination of Europe, those in posession of his home supply centres may trade their own for his. So, Quebec and Persia, let me know if you would like to assume any of those supply centres. That would happen after building.
Mexico:
F Arctic Ocean - Baffin Bay
Stats for Adjustments:
Quebec has 17 sc's - 17 units = No Adjustment Necessary
Mexico has 1 sc - 3 units = 2 disbands
Amazon has 15 sc's - 12 units = 3 builds
Europe has 0 sc's - 0 units = No Adjustment Necessary
Sahara has 3 sc's - 4 units = 1 disband
Congo has 1 sc - 1 unit = No Adjustment Necessary
Persia has 14 sc's - 13 units = 1 build
China has 3 sc's - 4 units = 1 disband
Oceania has 16 sc's - 13 units = 3 builds
Next Deadline:
Winter 2008 adjustments are due on Monday, May 21, at 3pm CDT.
mvp |
| DC399 - Autumn 2008 - Viper (May 17, 2012, 10:20 am) |
Here's our retreat and the statistics telling you what I'm looking for in the Winter. Note that with the official elimination of Europe, those in posession of his home supply centres may trade their own for his. So, Quebec and Persia, let me know if you would like to assume any of those supply centres. That would happen after building.
Mexico:
F Arctic Ocean - Baffin Bay
Stats for Adjustments:
Quebec has 17 sc's - 17 units = No Adjustment Necessary
Mexico has 1 sc - 3 units = 2 disbands
Amazon has 15 sc's - 12 units = 3 builds
Europe has 0 sc's - 0 units = No Adjustment Necessary
Sahara has 3 sc's - 4 units = 1 disband
Congo has 1 sc - 1 unit = No Adjustment Necessary
Persia has 14 sc's - 13 units = 1 build
China has 3 sc's - 4 units = 1 disband
Oceania has 16 sc's - 13 units = 3 builds
Next Deadline:
Winter 2008 adjustments are due on Monday, May 21, at 3pm CDT.
mvp[Reply] |
| DC 424 Peace Reigns! - rickyp (May 17, 2012, 10:19 am) |
Well I honestly didnt see that coming.. thank you guys.. I will draw up a prop end game in the next couple of days but thanks to you all for making it a memorable game to say the least and I do hope our paths cross again..
From: John R <untitled36(at)hotmail.com>
To: amtrating(at)gmail.com;
bret_pollack(at)hotmail.com; davidknight1955(at)gmail.com; dip.power.915(at)gmail.com; WB 2011 england 1 <jerome777(at)ymail.com>; wb 2 russia <rich3520(at)aol.com>; England WB 2012 <rick_powell_2000(at)yahoo.com>; blitz(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Sent: Thursday, 17 May 2012, 14:52
Subject: DC 424 Peace Reigns!
Hey all,
Peace reigns in Europe after six years of war. And it appears the only situation agreeable to everyone is.... THE RUSSIAN SOLO! Congrats to the Russian. This will catapult him ahead to the top of the round two standings. The rest of you get a survival, except the eliminated french of course. I'd love to see end of game statments from everyone, especially since in my mind it was still possible to stop Russia, at least in theory. With Turkey helping Russia in the southeast combined with the unrest in the northwest, perhaps in practice it was impossible.
Thanks all! Hopefully we'll see you for the blitz next year!
John
[Reply] |
| DC 424 Peace Reigns! - rickyp (May 17, 2012, 10:19 am) |
Well I honestly didnt see that coming.. thank you guys.. I will draw up a prop end game in the next couple of days but thanks to you all for making it a memorable game to say the least and I do hope our paths cross again..
From: John R <untitled36(at)hotmail.com>
To: amtrating(at)gmail.com;
bret_pollack(at)hotmail.com; davidknight1955(at)gmail.com; dip.power.915(at)gmail.com; WB 2011 england 1 <jerome777(at)ymail.com>; wb 2 russia <rich3520(at)aol.com>; England WB 2012 <rick_powell_2000(at)yahoo.com>; blitz(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Sent: Thursday, 17 May 2012, 14:52
Subject: DC 424 Peace Reigns!
Hey all,
Peace reigns in Europe after six years of war. And it appears the only situation agreeable to everyone is.... THE RUSSIAN SOLO! Congrats to the Russian. This will catapult him ahead to the top of the round two standings. The rest of you get a survival, except the eliminated french of course. I'd love to see end of game statments from everyone, especially since in my mind it was still possible to stop Russia, at least in theory. With Turkey helping Russia in the southeast combined with the unrest in the northwest, perhaps in practice it was impossible.
Thanks all! Hopefully we'll see you for the blitz next year!
John
[Reply] |
| DC 424 Peace Reigns! - untitled36 (May 17, 2012, 8:52 am) |
Hey all,
Peace reigns in Europe after six years of war. And it appears the only situation agreeable to everyone is.... THE RUSSIAN SOLO! Congrats to the Russian. This will catapult him ahead to the top of the round two standings. The rest of you get a survival, except the eliminated french of course. I'd love to see end of game statments from everyone, especially since in my mind it was still possible to stop Russia, at least in theory. With Turkey helping Russia in the southeast combined with the unrest in the northwest, perhaps in practice it was impossible.
Thanks all! Hopefully we'll see you for the blitz next year!
John
[Reply] |
| DC 424 Peace Reigns! (Winter Blitz) rickyp May 17, 10:19 am |
Well I honestly didnt see that coming.. thank you guys.. I will draw up a prop end game in the next couple of days but thanks to you all for making it a memorable game to say the least and I do hope our paths cross again..
From: John R <untitled36(at)hotmail.com>
To: amtrating(at)gmail.com;
bret_pollack(at)hotmail.com; davidknight1955(at)gmail.com; dip.power.915(at)gmail.com; WB 2011 england 1 <jerome777(at)ymail.com>; wb 2 russia <rich3520(at)aol.com>; England WB 2012 <rick_powell_2000(at)yahoo.com>; blitz(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Sent: Thursday, 17 May 2012, 14:52
Subject: DC 424 Peace Reigns!
Hey all,
Peace reigns in Europe after six years of war. And it appears the only situation agreeable to everyone is.... THE RUSSIAN SOLO! Congrats to the Russian. This will catapult him ahead to the top of the round two standings. The rest of you get a survival, except the eliminated french of course. I'd love to see end of game statments from everyone, especially since in my mind it was still possible to stop Russia, at least in theory. With Turkey helping Russia in the southeast combined with the unrest in the northwest, perhaps in practice it was impossible.
Thanks all! Hopefully we'll see you for the blitz next year!
John
|
| DC 424 Peace Reigns! (Winter Blitz) rickyp May 17, 10:19 am |
Well I honestly didnt see that coming.. thank you guys.. I will draw up a prop end game in the next couple of days but thanks to you all for making it a memorable game to say the least and I do hope our paths cross again..
From: John R <untitled36(at)hotmail.com>
To: amtrating(at)gmail.com;
bret_pollack(at)hotmail.com; davidknight1955(at)gmail.com; dip.power.915(at)gmail.com; WB 2011 england 1 <jerome777(at)ymail.com>; wb 2 russia <rich3520(at)aol.com>; England WB 2012 <rick_powell_2000(at)yahoo.com>; blitz(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Sent: Thursday, 17 May 2012, 14:52
Subject: DC 424 Peace Reigns!
Hey all,
Peace reigns in Europe after six years of war. And it appears the only situation agreeable to everyone is.... THE RUSSIAN SOLO! Congrats to the Russian. This will catapult him ahead to the top of the round two standings. The rest of you get a survival, except the eliminated french of course. I'd love to see end of game statments from everyone, especially since in my mind it was still possible to stop Russia, at least in theory. With Turkey helping Russia in the southeast combined with the unrest in the northwest, perhaps in practice it was impossible.
Thanks all! Hopefully we'll see you for the blitz next year!
John
|
| DC 424 Peace Reigns! (Winter Blitz) Dip_Power_915 May 17, 03:16 pm |
-----Original Message-----
Peace reigns in Europe after six years of war. And it appears the only situation agreeable to everyone is.... THE RUSSIAN SOLO! Congrats to the Russian. I'd love to see end of game statments from everyone, especially since in my mind it was still possible to stop Russia, at least in theory. With Turkey helping Russia in the southeast combined with the unrest in the northwest, perhaps in practice it was impossible.
-------------------------------------------------------
Could AEGI acting together have stopped the Russian Solo? If they had acted when I first prroposed it in '03 or '04, certainly. If they had acted appropriately after Fall '05 when Austria proposed it, almost certainly. If we had gotten together this turn? Maybe. If we had processed this turn as ordered? Probably not.
Why didn't we get our act together? Austria was the driving force behind the attempt, but his plans were either faulty, or intentionally crafted to weaken EG, and I wasn't willing to sacrifice my position to stop Russia, just so Italy could eliminate me later.
Eric of England in DC424. |
| DC 424 Peace Reigns! (Winter Blitz) AMT May 17, 04:18 pm |
Austria EGP:
I've never played Austria before, and made a muddle out of it! Some of that can be chalked up to luck: I pretty much had to hope Turkey or Russia would partner with me, and Russia seemed most willing to entertain the thought. In the end he chose Turkey as his ally, and from that point I was, at best, going to survive.
Fortunately Italy wanted me as an ally and proposed a bold modified lepanto style attack on Turkey at gamestart, which I agreed to. Unfortunately events rapidly spiraled, and we were never able to execute the plan - in large part due to my taking a big risk in trusting that Russia wouldn't attack me right off, and then a foulup in ordering on my part which let him make some moves I'd intended to counter. The result? I lost most of my home centers, and threw most of the rest to Italy in exchange for guaranteed survival.
With a juggernaut to our East, Italy and I figured that working together would be pretty much necessary to have any hope in this game. We agreed to take up blocking positions and try to get Russia or Turkey to switch sides. Didn't work, and a harebrained move idea on my part plus a late order set slowly eroded the stalemate line we had going.
Of course, it didn't much matter, as England's vendetta against Germany stemming from some drama early in the game kept the two of them battling it out even as Russia took centers from both of them. This vendetta led him to sabotage any and all attempts to form a line in the north, as he wanted Germany to be eliminated before the end of the game. He refused to even risk a single center and threatened to throw the game to Russia if he failed to get his way.
A fairly well known stalemate line runs northwest from the Ionian Sea through Greece and Trieste, then on up through Munich, Kiel, and the North/Norwegian Seas. Its not seen much because England's inherent advantage in early fleet position means that it takes some bad turns in the game for Russia or Germany to threaten the line. With Russia having only 2 fleets up north, the truth of it is that England probably could have held Denmark and gone on the offensive at the same time while Germany and Italy held the line. The calculation is pretty simple: Germany needs 5 units to hold Mun and Kie assuming Den-Nth-Nwg are in allied hands, and from Tyr on south is as well. Italy/Austria need 7 total to hold Tyr-Ven-Adr-Ion. Up north 6 are needed to hold Den-Skag-Nth-Nwg. Collectively, we had the necessary units on hand.
And all this assumes a perfect build strategy by the opposition that is perfectly situated - and few opponents are. Russia/Turkey wasn't, so my count of needed units was wholly pessimistic. Russia would need 2 more fleets than he had. With current dispositions, all that was needed to hold Nth-Nwg-Den was 4 fleets in total. Hence, we could technically very easily have effected a stalemate and DIAS.
Alas, wasn't to be. Even though we only discussed eliminating England once he started on his paranoid rants, that is where we were inevitably headed. Although I actually feel the game could have gone on to an inclusive DIAS even if we did have to knock out England, I think everyone got so sick of the infighting that we just wanted to end it with some dignity intact.
Rick, congrats on a well earned solo! You are a savvy and gracious opponent.
On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 8:19 AM, rick powell <rick_powell_2000(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
Well I honestly didnt see that coming.. thank you guys..
I will draw up a prop end game in the next couple of days but thanks to you all for making it a memorable game to say the least and I do hope our paths cross again..
From: John R <untitled36(at)hotmail.com>
To: amtrating(at)gmail.com;
bret_pollack(at)hotmail.com; davidknight1955(at)gmail.com; dip.power.915(at)gmail.com; WB 2011 england 1 <jerome777(at)ymail.com>; wb 2 russia <rich3520(at)aol.com>; England WB 2012 <rick_powell_2000(at)yahoo.com>; blitz(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Sent: Thursday, 17 May 2012, 14:52
Subject: DC 424 Peace Reigns!
Hey all,
Peace reigns in Europe after six years of war. And it appears the only situation agreeable to everyone is.... THE RUSSIAN SOLO! Congrats to the Russian. This will catapult him ahead to the top of the round two standings. The rest of you get a survival, except the eliminated french of course. I'd love to see end of game statments from everyone, especially since in my mind it was still possible to stop Russia, at least in theory. With Turkey helping Russia in the southeast combined with the unrest in the northwest, perhaps in practice it was impossible.
Thanks all! Hopefully we'll see you for the blitz next year!
John
|
| DC 424 Peace Reigns! (Winter Blitz) Dip_Power_915 May 17, 07:04 pm |
> From: "Andrew Tanner"
Of course, it didn't much matter, as England's
vendetta against Germany stemming from some > drama early in the game kept the two of them
battling it out even as Russia took centers from > both of them.
I had no vendetta against Germany. Germany attacked England three times, so he may have had a vendetta against England, but that is for David to explain.
This vendetta led him to sabotage any and all
attempts to form a line in the north,
Also not true. You proposed lines that were flawed, and which placed undue risk on EG. I offered counter-proposals to address these issues, but was dismissed with personal attacks like the one above.
he wanted Germany to be eliminated before the
end of the game.
And again untrue. The only one who proposed eliminating Germany was Italy. I wanted him to remove a Fleet so that he couldn't attack me for a fourth time, if Russia pulled back, but I never called for his elimination.
He refused to even risk a single center and
threatened to throw the game to Russia if he
failed to get his way.
I don't know how many games you've stalemated, Andrew, but over the last 30 years, I've probably been involved in more than 100, and a fair number of those have been tournament games, so let me give you some insight into my thinking, if you can let go of your misconceived ideas about my motivation here.
When a large Power is stalemated, especially in a tournament game, he typically tells the larger Powers on the other side that he won't vote for the Draw unless they eliminate some of the smaller Powers. In this case Rick told me that he wanted Austria, and hopefully Germany, eliminated. This is done to improve the game score, and because it often creates new solo opportunities as the to-be-eliminated Powers try to punish those who are whittling them. Given Germany's frequent and strategically unwise attacks on England, I had to be concerned that he would try to attack me again if Russia pulled back, so I felt I needed a build, and for Germany to disband a Fleet, to have a secure place in the draw. I tried to explain this to you but you came back with this paranoid vendetta nonsense.
A fairly well known stalemate line runs
northwest from the Ionian Sea through Greece
and Trieste, then on up through Munich, Kiel, and > the North/Norwegian Seas. With Russia having
only 2 fleets up north, the truth of it is that
England probably could have held Denmark and
gone on the offensive at the same time while
Germany and Italy held the line.
All true.
The calculation is pretty simple: Germany needs
5 units to hold Mun and Kie assuming
Den-Nth-Nwg are in allied hands,
Not quite that simple; Germany needs A Mun, A Ruh, and A Bur, to hold Mun, and two Units to hold Kiel. Your plan to keep F Gas instead of A Mar, to take Bre and have Germany disband A Bre was seriously flawed, either due to incompetence, or intentionally to weaken Germany.
6 are needed to hold Den-Skag-Nth-Nwg.
Collectively, we had the necessary units on
hand.
But your refusal to give me a build so that I wasn't dependent on questionable German and suspicious Italian support left me feeling I would hold the line only until Russia pulled his Fleets back to Finland and St. Petersburg, at which point I would be stabbed and eliminated. That may not have been your plan, but it seemed a more likely reason for your absolute unwillingness to consider my point of view, and your unjustified character assassination than simple incompetence.
Thanks,
Eric. |
| DC 424 Peace Reigns! (Winter Blitz) AMT May 17, 08:36 pm |
Some people play the game for the strategy, some the diplomacy, and some to argue with every statement they don't agree with. Well, guess it takes all kinds to construct a demand curve!
All I gotta say Eric, is that in your 30 years and hundred or so games (including tournaments!), one would think you'd be able to make a better showing than a 4 center England when France goes down early on in the game...
On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 5:04 PM, dip.power.915(at)gmail.com <dip.power.915(at)gmail.com> wrote:
> From: "Andrew Tanner" <amtrating(at)gmail.com>
> Of course, it didn't much matter, as England's
> vendetta against Germany stemming from some > drama early in the game kept the two of them
> battling it out even as Russia took centers from > both of them.
I had no vendetta against Germany. Germany attacked England three times, so he may have had a vendetta against England, but that is for David to explain.
> This vendetta led him to sabotage any and all
> attempts to form a line in the north,
Also not true. You proposed lines that were flawed, and which placed undue risk on EG. I offered counter-proposals to address these issues, but was dismissed with personal attacks like the one above.
> he wanted Germany to be eliminated before the
> end of the game.
And again untrue. The only one who proposed eliminating Germany was Italy. I wanted him to remove a Fleet so that he couldn't attack me for a fourth time, if Russia pulled back, but I never called for his elimination.
> He refused to even risk a single center and
> threatened to throw the game to Russia if he
> failed to get his way.
I don't know how many games you've stalemated, Andrew, but over the last 30 years, I've probably been involved in more than 100, and a fair number of those have been tournament games, so let me give you some insight into my thinking, if you can let go of your misconceived ideas about my motivation here.
When a large Power is stalemated, especially in a tournament game, he typically tells the larger Powers on the other side that he won't vote for the Draw unless they eliminate some of the smaller Powers. In this case Rick told me that he wanted Austria, and hopefully Germany, eliminated. This is done to improve the game score, and because it often creates new solo opportunities as the to-be-eliminated Powers try to punish those who are whittling them. Given Germany's frequent and strategically unwise attacks on England, I had to be concerned that he would try to attack me again if Russia pulled back, so I felt I needed a build, and for Germany to disband a Fleet, to have a secure place in the draw. I tried to explain this to you but you came back with this paranoid vendetta nonsense.
> A fairly well known stalemate line runs
> northwest from the Ionian Sea through Greece
> and Trieste, then on up through Munich, Kiel, and > the North/Norwegian Seas. With Russia having
> only 2 fleets up north, the truth of it is that
> England probably could have held Denmark and
> gone on the offensive at the same time while
> Germany and Italy held the line.
All true.
> The calculation is pretty simple: Germany needs
> 5 units to hold Mun and Kie assuming
> Den-Nth-Nwg are in allied hands,
Not quite that simple; Germany needs A Mun, A Ruh, and A Bur, to hold Mun, and two Units to hold Kiel. Your plan to keep F Gas instead of A Mar, to take Bre and have Germany disband A Bre was seriously flawed, either due to incompetence, or intentionally to weaken Germany.
> 6 are needed to hold Den-Skag-Nth-Nwg.
> Collectively, we had the necessary units on
> hand.
But your refusal to give me a build so that I wasn't dependent on questionable German and suspicious Italian support left me feeling I would hold the line only until Russia pulled his Fleets back to Finland and St. Petersburg, at which point I would be stabbed and eliminated. That may not have been your plan, but it seemed a more likely reason for your absolute unwillingness to consider my point of view, and your unjustified character assassination than simple incompetence.
Thanks,
Eric. |
| DC 424 Peace Reigns! (Winter Blitz) Dip_Power_915 May 17, 09:01 pm |
On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 9:36 PM, Andrew Tanner wrote:
Some people play the game for the strategy, some the diplomacy, and some to
argue with every statement they don't agree with. Well, guess it takes all
kinds to construct a demand curve!
All I gotta say Eric, is that in your 30 years and hundred or so games
(including tournaments!), one would think you'd be able to make a better
showing than a 4 center England when France goes down early on in the
game...
I really don't know why you feel the need to insult me just because I
disagree with you, but I wish you well. I'm not a good negotiator; my press
doesn't read friendly, so maybe you just don't like me, that happens to me
in some games. Also, because I have a deep,almost instinctive
understanding of the strategy and tactics of the game, I can come off
sounding arrogant without intending to be that way, and I'm sure that
contributed to it. The fact remains that your approach to me specifically,
and EG in general is what doomed this StL Alliance, not my paranoia, or
my non-existent childish vendetta against Germany for not giving me
Belgium in '01. Think about that and try to learn from this loss.
Thanks,
Eric. |
| Recruiting for Anarchy - AceRimmer (May 17, 2012, 8:50 am) |
| 11 players have signed on in under 24 hours. I need five more to open a second game. Keep signing up! [Reply] |
