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[quote:738162c51b]
I enjoyed this game a lot – we had a great GM and a dedicated set of players all of whom stuck with the game through to the end (or their end) – no frustrations from dropouts and replacements, nor from NMRs – the reminders and flexibility that our GM deployed are a model example of diplomatic GM-ing, particularly appropriate to a longer larger game…

 

Andrew’s comments on the map and the sea spaces are interesting – I’m a sucker for maps and attach again the ‘alternative’ version that I worked up at the beginning.  You can see from this that, unlike standard Dip, very few of the sea spaces in this game are ‘commanding’ ones that allow rapid movement and influence multiple land spaces (think MAO, NTH or ION in vanilla).  Indeed most are really no “larger” in impact than the land spaces, but there are a few exceptions that represent key strategic spots in this game – ATL, PAC, SCS, and to a lesser extent IND & COC.
 
Most of the nations start facing three or four neighbours  – Persia faces six, so it was pretty clear that I’d have to come out talking….and the talking pretty quickly changed the outline plan I’d got in my head from looking at the map. 
 
Since Persia would always be at risk with a strong Russia still in the game (sooner or later Russia would have to look south, I reckoned&hellip, my original thinking was  
 
A) Find someone to team up with against Russia,
B) Make sure the two Africans fell out, and
C) Make sure Oceania was worrying about his nautical neighbours (Sth Am/Sth Af) - who are actually much nearer than it seems – and so also get them interested in thinking about him.
 
B &C worked out fine but plan A came to grief when China didn’t bite on my early suggestions of a move on Russia (I was lucky these didn’t get used against me..), Europe proved hard to deal with (I respect the role-playing style but it does make it more difficult to build alliances particularly if you’re the only one doing it) - and he looked likely to be attacked by W Af early on anyhow - and Russia turned out to be the best of all my neighbours to deal with. 
 
So I found myself working with Russia and W Af against Europe.  Aware that if Europe was the starter I would make a tasty main course, I was still looking to put together some alliance against Russia after, particularly as Hamish didn’t at that stage seem too keen on moving together against China.  But with Ian being pulled back by African affairs, and North America going down across the Atlantic, this was starting to look more difficult – China was my only potential ally, but Mike is the kind of capable player who is good to deal with but never easy to trust.  Even so I proved too trusting, or naive - moving too many units westward and so Mike took advantage with his stab.  Without allies I didn’t think the stab made sense – the early gains he made were too small – but it soon became clear he had help on the horizon from both Oceania and South Af, and at that point I did think the odds were in his favour.
 
For a few turns I hung in the balance – Mike was pretty confident he would win through whatever Russia did, whereas I started to think that with Hamish’s help and some gameplay I’d stand a chance of pulling through – thankfully Hamish proved up for the challenge and from that point on the two of us had a great working relationship.  I really had to pull out all the stops against China – including avoiding being distracted by those units he got behind my lines, leaving them until after we had overrun China’s home base – and I wasn’t going to give up on my share of the spoils. 
 
This did mean that Hamish grew much faster than I did – and was good about not taking all his builds.  Quite possibly had Russia been ruthless and turned on me at the point China was more or less out we might be looking at a 3-way Rus/Mex/Sth Am finish, but on the other hand having an ally to his south did give Russia the freedom to expand out across the top of the map, and turning on me would clearly have risked a Mex/Sth Am walkover.
 
So my survival was secure and I was enjoying my position ‘in the middle’ – as well as talking to the others in the ‘big four’ I had a good deal going with Ian taking out St Af and then keeping him alive, worked out a deal with China (probably a couple of turns later than would have been ideal for both of us, but with him sacrificing even his home centres in order to hold units sitting in mine, peace was never going to be easy), and for the next turn I even had a little surprise for Mexico worked out with Frank.  So I’d have been very happy for the game to continue – but with Russia stepping back from expansion and no prospect of Russia himself not being there at the end, it was pretty obvious that a four-way was the best I could hope for and I voted for all the draw proposals, without exception.
 
If I’d have been playing China or Oceania – and probably even West Africa – I’d have voted against until my elimination, so cannot criticise if they did indeed exercise the veto, but since both Mexico and South Am were pushing forward until game end, there are clearly other possibilities, so unless someone wishes to come clean, I guess we shall never know…?
 
Thanks again guys, it was a great game - a whole year almost exactly from start to finish!!
 
Ian

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So here's a possibility for helping differentiate the units: flags.  I've spent this afternoon attempting that.

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So here's a possibility for helping differentiate the units: flags.  I've spent this afternoon attempting that.

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Here we go again, with all of the orders. FYI, this is completely my fault... no foul from France whatsoever. Maps are attached. Sorry about that mix-up.

Retreats are as before, from Italy and Germany. Deadline is still on Monday, 10 pm my time.

Warren


Austria:
F Adriatic Sea Supports A Trieste - Venice (*Cut*)
A Galicia Hold
A Greece - Serbia
A Trieste - Venice (*Fails*)

England:
F English Channel Supports A Picardy - Brest
F Irish Sea - Mid-Atlantic Ocean (*Bounce*)
F Liverpool - North Atlantic Ocean
F London - North Sea
A Picardy - Brest
F Sweden - Gulf of Bothnia

France:
F Brest - Mid-Atlantic Ocean (*Disbanded*)
A Gascony - Brest (*Fails*)
A Marseilles - Burgundy (*Fails*)
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean - Gascony (*Fails*)
A Paris - Picardy

Germany:
A Berlin - Munich
A Burgundy Supports A Picardy (*Ordered to Move*)
F Denmark Hold
A Kiel - Holland
A Ruhr Supports A Burgundy
A Warsaw Supports A Sevastopol - Moscow (*Dislodged*)

Italy:
F Ionian Sea - Adriatic Sea (*Dislodged*)
A Tunis - Spain
A Venice Hold
F Western Mediterranean Convoys A Tunis - Spain

Russia:
A Livonia - Warsaw
A Moscow Supports A Livonia - Warsaw

Turkey:
F Aegean Sea Supports F Eastern Mediterranean - Ionian Sea
F Armenia - Black Sea
A Bulgaria - Rumania
A Constantinople - Bulgaria
F Eastern Mediterranean - Ionian Sea
A Sevastopol Supports A Bulgaria - Rumania



From: alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com ([email]alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com[/email])
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CC: dc254(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc254(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email]); alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com ([email]alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com[/email])
Subject: DC 254, Spring 1903
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 12:10:41 -0600

Hey folks,

Here is the spring adjudication. The deadline for summer retreats, from Germany and Italy, will be Monday, June 22, 22:00 MST.

-----------------------
Austria:
F Adriatic Sea Supports A Trieste - Venice (*Cut*)
A Galicia Hold
A Greece - Serbia
A Trieste - Venice (*Fails*)

England:
F English Channel Supports A Picardy - Brest
F Irish Sea - Mid-Atlantic Ocean (*Fails*)
F Liverpool - North Atlantic Ocean
F London - North Sea
A Picardy - Brest
F Sweden - Gulf of Bothnia

France:
F Brest, no move received (*Disbanded*)
A Gascony, no move received
A Marseilles, no move received
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean, no move received
A Paris, no move received

Germany:
A Berlin - Munich
A Burgundy Supports A Picardy (*Ordered to Move*)
F Denmark Hold
A Kiel - Holland
A Ruhr Supports A Burgundy
A Warsaw Supports A Sevastopol - Moscow (*Dislodged*)

Italy:
F Ionian Sea - Adriatic Sea (*Dislodged*)
A Tunis - Spain
A Venice Hold
F Western Mediterranean Convoys A Tunis - Spain

Russia:
A Livonia - Warsaw
A Moscow Supports A Livonia - Warsaw

Turkey:
F Aegean Sea Supports F Eastern Mediterranean - Ionian Sea
F Armenia - Black Sea
A Bulgaria - Rumania
A Constantinople - Bulgaria
F Eastern Mediterranean - Ionian Sea
A Sevastopol Supports A Bulgaria - Rumania


RETREATS:

Italian F Ionian Sea can retreat to Tunis or Tyrrhenian Sea or
           Naples or Apulia or Albania or Greece.
German A Warsaw can retreat to Silesia or Prussia or Ukraine.
-------------------

Maps are attached. Check my work.

Have a great weekend!

Warren

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Hey folks,

Here is the spring adjudication. The deadline for summer retreats, from Germany and Italy, will be Monday, June 22, 22:00 MST.

-----------------------
Austria:
F Adriatic Sea Supports A Trieste - Venice (*Cut*)
A Galicia Hold
A Greece - Serbia
A Trieste - Venice (*Fails*)

England:
F English Channel Supports A Picardy - Brest
F Irish Sea - Mid-Atlantic Ocean (*Fails*)
F Liverpool - North Atlantic Ocean
F London - North Sea
A Picardy - Brest
F Sweden - Gulf of Bothnia

France:
F Brest, no move received (*Disbanded*)
A Gascony, no move received
A Marseilles, no move received
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean, no move received
A Paris, no move received

Germany:
A Berlin - Munich
A Burgundy Supports A Picardy (*Ordered to Move*)
F Denmark Hold
A Kiel - Holland
A Ruhr Supports A Burgundy
A Warsaw Supports A Sevastopol - Moscow (*Dislodged*)

Italy:
F Ionian Sea - Adriatic Sea (*Dislodged*)
A Tunis - Spain
A Venice Hold
F Western Mediterranean Convoys A Tunis - Spain

Russia:
A Livonia - Warsaw
A Moscow Supports A Livonia - Warsaw

Turkey:
F Aegean Sea Supports F Eastern Mediterranean - Ionian Sea
F Armenia - Black Sea
A Bulgaria - Rumania
A Constantinople - Bulgaria
F Eastern Mediterranean - Ionian Sea
A Sevastopol Supports A Bulgaria - Rumania


RETREATS:

Italian F Ionian Sea can retreat to Tunis or Tyrrhenian Sea or
Naples or Apulia or Albania or Greece.
German A Warsaw can retreat to Silesia or Prussia or Ukraine.
-------------------

Maps are attached. Check my work.

Have a great weekend!

Warren

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For immediate release:

ALGIERS - Sources indicate that the war has finally come to an end!
In a meeting hosted by the Algerian president, the G4 (consisting of
Mexican, South American, Russian and Persian dignitaries) signed a
peace treaty, agreeing to end hostilities. This comes after 14 years
of bitter fighting and many attempts at reaching that elusive peace
deal. A signing ceremony is scheduled for tomorrow after official
documents have been prepared.

Michael Penner, Associated Press.

-----------------------

Just to make it clear to everyone: we've agreed to a four-way draw
between Mexico, South America, Persia and Russia, with West Africa and
Oceana getting survivals. Good game everyone... I look forward to
hearing more about it.

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I've thought about adding Antarctica, but the map I used to build this off of didn't have it and also with the concept of choosing starting spots, I'd have to decide whose spot that would be to begin with.  If I added Antarctica it would just be as a space to land, much like Greenland or Iceland.

Just so you know some of the things that went into thinking the map over:

1. No power's starting spot is next to another players starting spot (which is why Sudan wouldn't be an sc, because it's right next to Cairo).

2. Any sea space that is shared by more than one power is shared equally at the beginning.  So the Red Sea borders one sc each from Persia, WAf, and SAf; the Gulf of Mexico borders two sc's each from Mex and NAm (in lieu of better names).

The idea of the Arctic Ocean was an attempt to make Russia more vulnerable to attack... every game that was played on the other map had a strong Russia, so I figured something probably had to be done about it.

I'll work on making more differentiable units, if that was the main problem... but for now, does anyone have ideas as to how I can name these powers?  It doesn't really make sense to call them Mexico and North America any more...

mvp

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Thank you all, gentlemen, for an intriguing game.  I'm not as experienced as most of you guys seem to be, and I thought I made a few avoidable errors - so I was happy to have survived at all.  The Russian/Persian/W African alliance worked very well at the start, but then I got into a fight with S Africa (which I tried to avoid, and then had to dive into with a fatal compromise with S Am).  Persia was propping me up at the end.

Favourite moment was landing in Mexica.  Nice burritos.

Really enjoyed it, so thanks to everyone for playing, and I raise a glass in appreciation for Mike's excellent GM work.  Like the new map as well, and I agree on the unit differentiation.

Well done to the big four.  West Africa signing off.

Ian

On Jun 19, 2009, at 07:33, F Bielschowsky wrote:

[quote:664eb97dba]Wow, that map has so much improved.
I like the idea of the Artic Ocean; what I like in particular is that its ownership gives control over the only northern passageway but at the same time make that person very vulnerable to joint attacks; no fewer than 13 (!) spaces border the Arctic Ocean.
Just as nice is the new setup for N-Am and Mex. Only downside I see is for Mexico as it will be hard to move east from its home soil with N-Am in control of Miami and Havana. Perhaps a swap of Nunavut to N-Am and Havana to Mex offers a better balance.

The colours of the map are fine; it's the units I was struggling with . The smaller the image the more the various units' colours were starting to look alike.
If the colours alone don't work then perhaps add a letter to each unit's image representing its Power?

When we can we test-play the new map?

Frank

2009/6/19 Diplomacy Gamemaster <worldwidegm(at)gmail.com ([email]worldwidegm(at)gmail.com[/email])>
[quote:664eb97dba]Hey there everyone, now that I have time to actually put forth some of my thoughts I think I will do so...

First of all, thanks for helping me test the map.  It's still a work in progress and the latest version is much different.  Any comments/suggestions are quite welcome.

Wow... sucks to be the guy that sees three people gang up on you (Austria in the standard, Europe in the this particular game).  I have to admit, there were certain powers for whom I was cheering, simply because I've played this map a few times and there are some who always seem to get the short end of the stick.  I'm starting to think that's the map and not the players. 

Good job by Mexico in getting armies all over the place... you're right, it's tough to get yourself into places, but you were starting to get there.

South America: I might agree with you on needing more ocean spaces.  We kept the big ones on purpose because we wanted the game to get off to a quick start... don't think I'll change those.  But it might be a good idea to add some small shoreline spaces... we'll see.  Mid-game I got to play SAm for the first time and got kinda frustrated myself.

Africa: Too bad you two couldn't get along.  WAf was making good progress into Europe and I thought SAf had SAm on the ropes, but it wasn't meant to be, I suppose.

Oceania: That spot holds a special place in my heart because I actually managed to solo from there once... it's a tough place to defend though... not sure how to fix that.

Russia & China: Another place where I was convinced you would eventually work together, after meeting over NAm, but my prediction definitely never came to pass there.

Persia: Well done on the diplomacy... Persia can have many enemies, but also many allies... you balanced it well.

North America: Tough playing this game when you don't have allies... eventually people start eating away at your territory... but I know Dan, and he's used to that by now...

I certainly enjoyed GMing most of the time... toward the end it got a little tedious because nothing was really happening.  Rules say I can't tell you what was actually going on, but maybe it'll come out in an EOG somewhere.

A quick question about the colours... I've tried to make them as distinct as I can... but it's kinda tough to find 10 distinct colours... any suggestions?

mvp

ps. I'll attach the newest version of the map... a few things to note:

1) it solves the problem of Mexico being stuck between NAm and SAm right away, but makes it tough to come up with names for those powers.
2) Global warming has made it easier to attack using the Arctic Ocean, which goes across the entire north of the map.
 3) I've made more attempts to try to help Europe in the attempt to hold off Russia... don't know if it'll work.

This map has yet to be played.

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Wow, that map has so much improved.
I like the idea of the Artic Ocean; what I like in particular is that
its ownership gives control over the only northern passageway but at
the same time make that person very vulnerable to joint attacks; no
fewer than 13 (!) spaces border the Arctic Ocean.
Just as nice is the new setup for N-Am and Mex. Only downside I see is
for Mexico as it will be hard to move east from its home soil with
N-Am in control of Miami and Havana. Perhaps a swap of Nunavut to N-Am
and Havana to Mex offers a better balance.

The colours of the map are fine; it's the units I was struggling with
. The smaller the image the more the various units' colours were
starting to look alike.
If the colours alone don't work then perhaps add a letter to each
unit's image representing its Power?

When we can we test-play the new map?

Frank

2009/6/19 Diplomacy Gamemaster <worldwidegm(at)gmail.com>
[quote:678f1fcbd0]Hey there everyone, now that I have time to actually put forth some
of my thoughts I think I will do so...

First of all, thanks for helping me test the map.  It's still a work
in progress and the latest version is much different.  Any
comments/suggestions are quite welcome.

Wow... sucks to be the guy that sees three people gang up on you
(Austria in the standard, Europe in the this particular game).  I
have to admit, there were certain powers for whom I was cheering,
simply because I've played this map a few times and there are some
who always seem to get the short end of the stick.  I'm starting to
think that's the map and not the players. 

Good job by Mexico in getting armies all over the place... you're
right, it's tough to get yourself into places, but you were starting
to get there.

South America: I might agree with you on needing more ocean spaces. 
We kept the big ones on purpose because we wanted the game to get off
to a quick start... don't think I'll change those.  But it might be a
good idea to add some small shoreline spaces... we'll see.  Mid-game
I got to play SAm for the first time and got kinda frustrated myself.

Africa: Too bad you two couldn't get along.  WAf was making good
progress into Europe and I thought SAf had SAm on the ropes, but it
wasn't meant to be, I suppose.

Oceania: That spot holds a special place in my heart because I
actually managed to solo from there once... it's a tough place to
defend though... not sure how to fix that.

Russia & China: Another place where I was convinced you would
eventually work together, after meeting over NAm, but my prediction
definitely never came to pass there.

Persia: Well done on the diplomacy... Persia can have many enemies,
but also many allies... you balanced it well.

North America: Tough playing this game when you don't have allies...
eventually people start eating away at your territory... but I know
Dan, and he's used to that by now...

I certainly enjoyed GMing most of the time... toward the end it got a
little tedious because nothing was really happening.  Rules say I
can't tell you what was actually going on, but maybe it'll come out
in an EOG somewhere.

A quick question about the colours... I've tried to make them as
distinct as I can... but it's kinda tough to find 10 distinct
colours... any suggestions?

mvp

ps. I'll attach the newest version of the map... a few things to note:

1) it solves the problem of Mexico being stuck between NAm and SAm
right away, but makes it tough to come up with names for those
powers.
2) Global warming has made it easier to attack using the Arctic
Ocean, which goes across the entire north of the map.
3) I've made more attempts to try to help Europe in the attempt to
hold off Russia... don't know if it'll work.

This map has yet to be played.

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I enjoyed this game a lot - we had a great GM and a dedicated set of players all of whom stuck with the game through to the end (or their end) - no frustrations from dropouts and replacements, nor from NMRs - the reminders and flexibility that our GM deployed are a model example of diplomatic GM-ing, particularly appropriate to a longer larger game...

Andrew's comments on the map and the sea spaces are interesting -I'm a sucker for maps and attach again the "alternative" version that I worked up at the beginning. You can see from this that, unlike standard Dip, very few of the sea spaces in this game are "commanding" ones that allow rapid movement and influence multiple land spaces (think MAO, NTH or ION in vanilla). Indeed most are really no "larger" in impact than the land spaces, but there are a few exceptions that represent key strategic spots in this game - ATL, PAC, SCS, and to a lesser extent IND & COC.

Most of the nations start facing three or four neighbours - Persia faces six, so it was pretty clear that I'd have to come out talking....and the talking pretty quickly changed the outline plan I'd got in my head from looking at the map.

Since Persia would always be at risk with a strong Russia still in the game (sooner or later Russia would have to look south, I reckoned..), my original thinking was:

A) Find someone to team up with against Russia,
B) Make sure the two Africans fell out, and
C) Make sure Oceania was worrying about his nautical neighbours (Sth Am/Sth Af) - who are actually much nearer than it seems, and so also get them interested in thinking about him.

B &C worked out fine but plan A came to grief when China didn't bite on my early suggestions of a move on Russia (I was lucky these didn't get used against me..), Europe proved hard to deal with (I respect the role-playing style but it does make it more difficult to build alliances particularly if you're the only one doing it) - and he looked likely to be attacked by W Af early on anyhow - and Russia turned out to be the best of all my neighbours to deal with.

So I found myself working with Russia and W Af against Europe. Aware that if Europe was the starter I would make a tasty main course, I was still looking to put together some alliance against Russia after, particularly as Hamish didn't at that stage seem too keen on moving together against China. But with Ian being pulled back by African affairs, and North America going down across the Atlantic, this was starting to look more difficult. China was my only potential ally, but Mike is the kind of capable player who is good to deal with but never easy to trust. Even so I proved too trusting, or naive - moving too many units westward and so Mike took advantage with his stab. Without allies I didn't think the stab made sense - the early gains he made were too small - but it soon became clear he had help on the horizon from both Oceania and South Af, and at that point I did think the odds were in his favour.

For a few turns I hung in the balance - Mike was pretty confident he would win through whatever Russia did, whereas I started to think that with Hamish's help and some gameplay I'd stand a chance of pulling through - thankfully Hamish proved up for the challenge and from that point on the two of us had a great working relationship. I really had to pull out all the stops against China (including avoiding being distracted by those units he got behind my lines, leaving them until after we had overrun China's home base) and I wasn't going to give up on my share of the spoils.

This did mean that Hamish grew much faster than I did - and was good about not taking all his builds. Quite possibly had Russia been ruthless and turned on me at the point China was more or less out we might be looking at a 3-way Rus/Mex/Sth Am finish, but on the other hand having an ally to his south did give Russia the freedom to expand out across the top of the map, and turning on me would clearly have risked a Mex/Sth Am walkover.

So my survival was secure and I was enjoying my position 'in the middle' - as well as talking to the others in the 'big four' I had a good deal going with Ian taking out St Af and then keeping him alive, worked out a deal with China (probably a couple of turns later than would have been ideal for both of us, but with him sacrificing even his home centres in order to hold units sitting in mine, peace was never going to be easy), and for the next turn I even had a little surprise for Mexico worked out with Frank. So I'd have been very happy for the game to continue - but with Russia stepping back from expansion and no prospect of Russia himself not being there at the end, it was pretty obvious that a four-way was the best I could hope for and I voted for all the draw proposals, without exception.

If I'd have been playing China or Oceania - and probably even West Africa - I'd have voted against until my elimination, so cannot criticise if they did indeed exercise the veto, but since both Mexico and South Am were pushing forward until game end, there are clearly other possibilities, so unless someone wishes to come clean, I guess we shall never know..... (edit after Scott's post...see, I told you it was Mexico all along.... !)



Thanks again guys, it was a great game - a whole year almost exactly from start to finish!!



Ian

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