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dc 197 Winter 1905 - former.trout   (Dec 17, 2008, 10:25 pm)
What happened to Armenia? Did we suddenly pop into a seismic game? =P

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

Nope, because a fleet in SYR is not two spaces away from a Russian province.

In that case, the fleet in SYR would be removed, because even at the least, the fleet in SYR is 4 spaces away from SEV.



On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 10:21 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:3e59b494a9] yes - even if the unit in SYR was also a fleet.


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:18:57 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Exactly. Because both are two spaces away from Russias home SCs. Then you take the one that is not on an SC itself.

Go one step further. Same example but add a fleet in the Norwegian Sea. In that case, it would be the fleet that gets disbanded and Munich and Syria would both stay on the board.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:15 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:3e59b494a9] so then if you had a unit in MUN and SYR - the unit in SYR would
then be disbanded?


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>

To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>

Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:00:40 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




None of those take precedence over each other - they are meant to be taken as a whole.

i.e.


The unit disbanded is the one that is furthest from a home center.
If more than one is equidistant from a home SC, then the unit removed is one not on a supply center.
If more than one are not on a supply center then you take fleets before armies.
Then you resort to the alphabet if there choices still have not resolved into one.


In this case there was only one unit that was two spaces away from a home SC. That was Munich.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:54 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:3e59b494a9] Yeah, I was just looking at that. What the rules don't say is which takes priority,
furtherest from home, or on a supply center or not.

But I am curious - given the three editions that have come out since my 82 edition -
what do they say? Yes, I know the DC House Rules trump the real rules, but it
would be interesting to see what they say. Especially since Kevin's email implies they
may be different.



From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 10:47:59 PM


Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Good grief. How did I miss sending in that order. Sorry guys.

Packrat is right though - the default is usually the unit furthest from the home centers. (Not just any center.) But default removals are covered by the HRS - which are in this case the default DC house rules.


"On a Winter turn an NMR (NBR/NDR) would mean that if the player was building - the builds would be waived and if the player was disbanding, units would be disbanded under the following rules [list:3e59b494a9] [*:3e59b494a9]Units not in a supply center before units in a supply center [*:3e59b494a9]Units further from home centers before units closer to home centers [*:3e59b494a9]Fleets before armies if equidistant per the above [*:3e59b494a9]Alphabetical"[/list:u:3e59b494a9]

Both of my units that are not on a supply center are only one space from a home center. Munich is two. As such, Jackson made the correct disband.


Long story short, the lapse on my part was unforgiveable and the forced disband is my fault. I think Jackosn made the right call.


Trout






On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

[quote:3e59b494a9] Which rules are you referencing?



On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:14 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:3e59b494a9] I believe the rules say HOME supply center.

The units are removed furthest from home first - regardless of
whether it is a supply center or not, armies before fleets, and
alphabetically if equidistant.



From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:11:33 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905



Folks, I have a dispute about these adjudications.

The default by Russia seems to be incorrect adjudicated, according to the DiplomaticCorp House Rules.

The rules specifically state that the first unit to be removed is a unit that is not in a supply center. Clearly, MUN is a supply center.

Then, the next criteria states that the unit which is further from a home supply center is to be removed. Both FIN and BLA are one space away from a home supply center (even though STP is not owned by Russia, it is still a Home supply center).

The third criteria is a fleet before an army will be removed. BLA is a fleet. FIN is an army. Therefore, BLA should have been removed.

Thanks,
-kevin


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:3e59b494a9] Austria:
Build A Trieste
Build A Vienna
Build A Budapest


England:
Defaults, removing F Yorkshire


France:
Build A Paris
Build A Marseilles
Build F Brest


Germany:
Remove A Bohemia


Italy:
Remove F Eastern Mediterranean
Remove A Ankara


Russia:
Defaults, removing A Munich




Next orders due Friday the 26th 23:00 GMT
If this does not work let me know as I know some may be on vacation.


Kai









[/quote:3e59b494a9]



[/quote:3e59b494a9]








[/quote:3e59b494a9]








[/quote:3e59b494a9]








[/quote:3e59b494a9]



[/quote:3e59b494a9]

[Reply]

dc 197 Winter 1905 - kevinokelly   (Dec 17, 2008, 10:24 pm)
Nope, because a fleet in SYR is not two spaces away from a Russian province.

In that case, the fleet in SYR would be removed, because even at the least, the fleet in SYR is 4 spaces away from SEV.


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 10:21 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:

yes - even if the unit in SYR was also a fleet.


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:18:57 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Exactly. Because both are two spaces away from Russias home SCs. Then you take the one that is not on an SC itself.

Go one step further. Same example but add a fleet in the Norwegian Sea. In that case, it would be the fleet that gets disbanded and Munich and Syria would both stay on the board.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:15 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:1ad925bc52] so then if you had a unit in MUN and SYR - the unit in SYR would
then be disbanded?


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>

To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>

Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:00:40 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




None of those take precedence over each other - they are meant to be taken as a whole.

i.e.


The unit disbanded is the one that is furthest from a home center.
If more than one is equidistant from a home SC, then the unit removed is one not on a supply center.
If more than one are not on a supply center then you take fleets before armies.
Then you resort to the alphabet if there choices still have not resolved into one.


In this case there was only one unit that was two spaces away from a home SC. That was Munich.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:54 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:1ad925bc52] Yeah, I was just looking at that. What the rules don't say is which takes priority,
furtherest from home, or on a supply center or not.

But I am curious - given the three editions that have come out since my 82 edition -
what do they say? Yes, I know the DC House Rules trump the real rules, but it
would be interesting to see what they say. Especially since Kevin's email implies they
may be different.



From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 10:47:59 PM


Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Good grief. How did I miss sending in that order. Sorry guys.

Packrat is right though - the default is usually the unit furthest from the home centers. (Not just any center.) But default removals are covered by the HRS - which are in this case the default DC house rules.


"On a Winter turn an NMR (NBR/NDR) would mean that if the player was building - the builds would be waived and if the player was disbanding, units would be disbanded under the following rules [list:1ad925bc52] [*:1ad925bc52]Units not in a supply center before units in a supply center [*:1ad925bc52]Units further from home centers before units closer to home centers [*:1ad925bc52]Fleets before armies if equidistant per the above [*:1ad925bc52]Alphabetical"[/list:u:1ad925bc52]

Both of my units that are not on a supply center are only one space from a home center. Munich is two. As such, Jackson made the correct disband.


Long story short, the lapse on my part was unforgiveable and the forced disband is my fault. I think Jackosn made the right call.


Trout






On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

[quote:1ad925bc52] Which rules are you referencing?



On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:14 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:1ad925bc52] I believe the rules say HOME supply center.

The units are removed furthest from home first - regardless of
whether it is a supply center or not, armies before fleets, and
alphabetically if equidistant.



From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:11:33 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905



Folks, I have a dispute about these adjudications.

The default by Russia seems to be incorrect adjudicated, according to the DiplomaticCorp House Rules.

The rules specifically state that the first unit to be removed is a unit that is not in a supply center. Clearly, MUN is a supply center.

Then, the next criteria states that the unit which is further from a home supply center is to be removed. Both FIN and BLA are one space away from a home supply center (even though STP is not owned by Russia, it is still a Home supply center).

The third criteria is a fleet before an army will be removed. BLA is a fleet. FIN is an army. Therefore, BLA should have been removed.

Thanks,
-kevin


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:1ad925bc52] Austria:
Build A Trieste
Build A Vienna
Build A Budapest


England:
Defaults, removing F Yorkshire


France:
Build A Paris
Build A Marseilles
Build F Brest


Germany:
Remove A Bohemia


Italy:
Remove F Eastern Mediterranean
Remove A Ankara


Russia:
Defaults, removing A Munich




Next orders due Friday the 26th 23:00 GMT
If this does not work let me know as I know some may be on vacation.


Kai









[/quote:1ad925bc52]



[/quote:1ad925bc52]








[/quote:1ad925bc52]








[/quote:1ad925bc52]








[/quote:1ad925bc52]

[Reply]

dc 197 Winter 1905 - former.trout   (Dec 17, 2008, 10:24 pm)
Right on. Because if the unit in Syria was a fleet then the alphabetical part of the calculation comes in... Norwegian (N) before Syria (S)...


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:21 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:

yes - even if the unit in SYR was also a fleet.


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:18:57 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Exactly. Because both are two spaces away from Russias home SCs. Then you take the one that is not on an SC itself.

Go one step further. Same example but add a fleet in the Norwegian Sea. In that case, it would be the fleet that gets disbanded and Munich and Syria would both stay on the board.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:15 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:5e41d4c3e8] so then if you had a unit in MUN and SYR - the unit in SYR would
then be disbanded?


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>

To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>

Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:00:40 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




None of those take precedence over each other - they are meant to be taken as a whole.

i.e.


The unit disbanded is the one that is furthest from a home center.
If more than one is equidistant from a home SC, then the unit removed is one not on a supply center.
If more than one are not on a supply center then you take fleets before armies.
Then you resort to the alphabet if there choices still have not resolved into one.


In this case there was only one unit that was two spaces away from a home SC. That was Munich.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:54 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:5e41d4c3e8] Yeah, I was just looking at that. What the rules don't say is which takes priority,
furtherest from home, or on a supply center or not.

But I am curious - given the three editions that have come out since my 82 edition -
what do they say? Yes, I know the DC House Rules trump the real rules, but it
would be interesting to see what they say. Especially since Kevin's email implies they
may be different.



From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 10:47:59 PM


Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Good grief. How did I miss sending in that order. Sorry guys.

Packrat is right though - the default is usually the unit furthest from the home centers. (Not just any center.) But default removals are covered by the HRS - which are in this case the default DC house rules.


"On a Winter turn an NMR (NBR/NDR) would mean that if the player was building - the builds would be waived and if the player was disbanding, units would be disbanded under the following rules[list:5e41d4c3e8] [*:5e41d4c3e8]Units not in a supply center before units in a supply center[*:5e41d4c3e8]Units further from home centers before units closer to home centers [*:5e41d4c3e8]Fleets before armies if equidistant per the above[*:5e41d4c3e8]Alphabetical"[/list:u:5e41d4c3e8]

Both of my units that are not on a supply center are only one space from a home center. Munich is two. As such, Jackson made the correct disband.


Long story short, the lapse on my part was unforgiveable and the forced disband is my fault. I think Jackosn made the right call.


Trout






On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

[quote:5e41d4c3e8]Which rules are you referencing?



On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:14 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:5e41d4c3e8] I believe the rules say HOME supply center.

The units are removed furthest from home first - regardless of
whether it is a supply center or not, armies before fleets, and
alphabetically if equidistant.



From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:11:33 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905



Folks, I have a dispute about these adjudications.

The default by Russia seems to be incorrect adjudicated, according to the DiplomaticCorp House Rules.

The rules specifically state that the first unit to be removed is a unit that is not in a supply center. Clearly, MUN is a supply center.

Then, the next criteria states that the unit which is further from a home supply center is to be removed. Both FIN and BLA are one space away from a home supply center (even though STP is not owned by Russia, it is still a Home supply center).

The third criteria is a fleet before an army will be removed. BLA is a fleet. FIN is an army. Therefore, BLA should have been removed.

Thanks,
-kevin


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:5e41d4c3e8] Austria:
Build A Trieste
Build A Vienna
Build A Budapest


England:
Defaults, removing F Yorkshire


France:
Build A Paris
Build A Marseilles
Build F Brest


Germany:
Remove A Bohemia


Italy:
Remove F Eastern Mediterranean
Remove A Ankara


Russia:
Defaults, removing A Munich




Next orders due Friday the 26th 23:00 GMT
If this does not work let me know as I know some may be on vacation.


Kai









[/quote:5e41d4c3e8]



[/quote:5e41d4c3e8]








[/quote:5e41d4c3e8]








[/quote:5e41d4c3e8]








[/quote:5e41d4c3e8]

[Reply]

dc 197 Winter 1905 - packrat   (Dec 17, 2008, 10:22 pm)
yes - even if the unit in SYR was also a fleet.


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com>
Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com; dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:18:57 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905

Exactly. Because both are two spaces away from Russias home SCs. Then you take the one that is not on an SC itself.

Go one step further. Same example but add a fleet in the Norwegian Sea. In that case, it would be the fleet that gets disbanded and Munich and Syria would both stay on the board.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:15 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:

so then if you had a unit in MUN and SYR - the unit in SYR would
then be disbanded?


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>

To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>

Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:00:40 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




None of those take precedence over each other - they are meant to be taken as a whole.

i.e.


The unit disbanded is the one that is furthest from a home center.
If more than one is equidistant from a home SC, then the unit removed is one not on a supply center.
If more than one are not on a supply center then you take fleets before armies.
Then you resort to the alphabet if there choices still have not resolved into one.


In this case there was only one unit that was two spaces away from a home SC. That was Munich.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:54 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:28e55c999e] Yeah, I was just looking at that. What the rules don't say is which takes priority,
furtherest from home, or on a supply center or not.

But I am curious - given the three editions that have come out since my 82 edition -
what do they say? Yes, I know the DC House Rules trump the real rules, but it
would be interesting to see what they say. Especially since Kevin's email implies they
may be different.



From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 10:47:59 PM


Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Good grief. How did I miss sending in that order. Sorry guys.

Packrat is right though - the default is usually the unit furthest from the home centers. (Not just any center.) But default removals are covered by the HRS - which are in this case the default DC house rules.


"On a Winter turn an NMR (NBR/NDR) would mean that if the player was building - the builds would be waived and if the player was disbanding, units would be disbanded under the following rules[list:28e55c999e] [*:28e55c999e]Units not in a supply center before units in a supply center[*:28e55c999e]Units further from home centers before units closer to home centers [*:28e55c999e]Fleets before armies if equidistant per the above[*:28e55c999e]Alphabetical"[/list:u:28e55c999e]

Both of my units that are not on a supply center are only one space from a home center. Munich is two. As such, Jackson made the correct disband.


Long story short, the lapse on my part was unforgiveable and the forced disband is my fault. I think Jackosn made the right call.


Trout






On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

[quote:28e55c999e]Which rules are you referencing?



On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:14 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:28e55c999e] I believe the rules say HOME supply center.

The units are removed furthest from home first - regardless of
whether it is a supply center or not, armies before fleets, and
alphabetically if equidistant.



From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:11:33 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905



Folks, I have a dispute about these adjudications.

The default by Russia seems to be incorrect adjudicated, according to the DiplomaticCorp House Rules.

The rules specifically state that the first unit to be removed is a unit that is not in a supply center. Clearly, MUN is a supply center.

Then, the next criteria states that the unit which is further from a home supply center is to be removed. Both FIN and BLA are one space away from a home supply center (even though STP is not owned by Russia, it is still a Home supply center).

The third criteria is a fleet before an army will be removed. BLA is a fleet. FIN is an army. Therefore, BLA should have been removed.

Thanks,
-kevin


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:28e55c999e] Austria:
Build A Trieste
Build A Vienna
Build A Budapest


England:
Defaults, removing F Yorkshire


France:
Build A Paris
Build A Marseilles
Build F Brest


Germany:
Remove A Bohemia


Italy:
Remove F Eastern Mediterranean
Remove A Ankara


Russia:
Defaults, removing A Munich




Next orders due Friday the 26th 23:00 GMT
If this does not work let me know as I know some may be on vacation.


Kai









[/quote:28e55c999e]



[/quote:28e55c999e]








[/quote:28e55c999e]








[/quote:28e55c999e]

[Reply]

dc 197 Winter 1905 - former.trout   (Dec 17, 2008, 10:19 pm)
Exactly. Because both are two spaces away from Russias home SCs. Then you take the one that is not on an SC itself.

Go one step further. Same example but add a fleet in the Norwegian Sea. In that case, it would be the fleet that gets disbanded and Munich and Syria would both stay on the board.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:15 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:

so then if you had a unit in MUN and SYR - the unit in SYR would
then be disbanded?


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>

To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>

Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:00:40 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




None of those take precedence over each other - they are meant to be taken as a whole.

i.e.


The unit disbanded is the one that is furthest from a home center.
If more than one is equidistant from a home SC, then the unit removed is one not on a supply center.
If more than one are not on a supply center then you take fleets before armies.
Then you resort to the alphabet if there choices still have not resolved into one.


In this case there was only one unit that was two spaces away from a home SC. That was Munich.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:54 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:0d86d0a824] Yeah, I was just looking at that. What the rules don't say is which takes priority,
furtherest from home, or on a supply center or not.

But I am curious - given the three editions that have come out since my 82 edition -
what do they say? Yes, I know the DC House Rules trump the real rules, but it
would be interesting to see what they say. Especially since Kevin's email implies they
may be different.



From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 10:47:59 PM


Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Good grief. How did I miss sending in that order. Sorry guys.

Packrat is right though - the default is usually the unit furthest from the home centers. (Not just any center.) But default removals are covered by the HRS - which are in this case the default DC house rules.


"On a Winter turn an NMR (NBR/NDR) would mean that if the player was building - the builds would be waived and if the player was disbanding, units would be disbanded under the following rules[list:0d86d0a824] [*:0d86d0a824]Units not in a supply center before units in a supply center[*:0d86d0a824]Units further from home centers before units closer to home centers [*:0d86d0a824]Fleets before armies if equidistant per the above[*:0d86d0a824]Alphabetical"[/list:u:0d86d0a824]

Both of my units that are not on a supply center are only one space from a home center. Munich is two. As such, Jackson made the correct disband.


Long story short, the lapse on my part was unforgiveable and the forced disband is my fault. I think Jackosn made the right call.


Trout






On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

[quote:0d86d0a824]Which rules are you referencing?



On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:14 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:0d86d0a824] I believe the rules say HOME supply center.

The units are removed furthest from home first - regardless of
whether it is a supply center or not, armies before fleets, and
alphabetically if equidistant.



From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:11:33 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905



Folks, I have a dispute about these adjudications.

The default by Russia seems to be incorrect adjudicated, according to the DiplomaticCorp House Rules.

The rules specifically state that the first unit to be removed is a unit that is not in a supply center. Clearly, MUN is a supply center.

Then, the next criteria states that the unit which is further from a home supply center is to be removed. Both FIN and BLA are one space away from a home supply center (even though STP is not owned by Russia, it is still a Home supply center).

The third criteria is a fleet before an army will be removed. BLA is a fleet. FIN is an army. Therefore, BLA should have been removed.

Thanks,
-kevin


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:0d86d0a824] Austria:
Build A Trieste
Build A Vienna
Build A Budapest


England:
Defaults, removing F Yorkshire


France:
Build A Paris
Build A Marseilles
Build F Brest


Germany:
Remove A Bohemia


Italy:
Remove F Eastern Mediterranean
Remove A Ankara


Russia:
Defaults, removing A Munich




Next orders due Friday the 26th 23:00 GMT
If this does not work let me know as I know some may be on vacation.


Kai









[/quote:0d86d0a824]



[/quote:0d86d0a824]








[/quote:0d86d0a824]








[/quote:0d86d0a824]

[Reply]

dc 197 Winter 1905 - packrat   (Dec 17, 2008, 10:15 pm)
so then if you had a unit in MUN and SYR - the unit in SYR would
then be disbanded?


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com>
Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com; dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:00:40 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905

None of those take precedence over each other - they are meant to be taken as a whole.

i.e.


The unit disbanded is the one that is furthest from a home center.
If more than one is equidistant from a home SC, then the unit removed is one not on a supply center.
If more than one are not on a supply center then you take fleets before armies.
Then you resort to the alphabet if there choices still have not resolved into one.


In this case there was only one unit that was two spaces away from a home SC. That was Munich.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:54 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:

Yeah, I was just looking at that. What the rules don't say is which takes priority,
furtherest from home, or on a supply center or not.

But I am curious - given the three editions that have come out since my 82 edition -
what do they say? Yes, I know the DC House Rules trump the real rules, but it
would be interesting to see what they say. Especially since Kevin's email implies they
may be different.



From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 10:47:59 PM


Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Good grief. How did I miss sending in that order. Sorry guys.

Packrat is right though - the default is usually the unit furthest from the home centers. (Not just any center.) But default removals are covered by the HRS - which are in this case the default DC house rules.


"On a Winter turn an NMR (NBR/NDR) would mean that if the player was building - the builds would be waived and if the player was disbanding, units would be disbanded under the following rules[list:73c46716bc] [*:73c46716bc]Units not in a supply center before units in a supply center[*:73c46716bc]Units further from home centers before units closer to home centers [*:73c46716bc]Fleets before armies if equidistant per the above[*:73c46716bc]Alphabetical"[/list:u:73c46716bc]

Both of my units that are not on a supply center are only one space from a home center. Munich is two. As such, Jackson made the correct disband.


Long story short, the lapse on my part was unforgiveable and the forced disband is my fault. I think Jackosn made the right call.


Trout






On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

[quote:73c46716bc]Which rules are you referencing?



On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:14 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:73c46716bc] I believe the rules say HOME supply center.

The units are removed furthest from home first - regardless of
whether it is a supply center or not, armies before fleets, and
alphabetically if equidistant.



From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:11:33 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905



Folks, I have a dispute about these adjudications.

The default by Russia seems to be incorrect adjudicated, according to the DiplomaticCorp House Rules.

The rules specifically state that the first unit to be removed is a unit that is not in a supply center. Clearly, MUN is a supply center.

Then, the next criteria states that the unit which is further from a home supply center is to be removed. Both FIN and BLA are one space away from a home supply center (even though STP is not owned by Russia, it is still a Home supply center).

The third criteria is a fleet before an army will be removed. BLA is a fleet. FIN is an army. Therefore, BLA should have been removed.

Thanks,
-kevin


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:73c46716bc] Austria:
Build A Trieste
Build A Vienna
Build A Budapest


England:
Defaults, removing F Yorkshire


France:
Build A Paris
Build A Marseilles
Build F Brest


Germany:
Remove A Bohemia


Italy:
Remove F Eastern Mediterranean
Remove A Ankara


Russia:
Defaults, removing A Munich




Next orders due Friday the 26th 23:00 GMT
If this does not work let me know as I know some may be on vacation.


Kai









[/quote:73c46716bc]



[/quote:73c46716bc]








[/quote:73c46716bc]

[Reply]

dc 197 Winter 1905 - former.trout   (Dec 17, 2008, 10:01 pm)
None of those take precedence over each other - they are meant to be taken as a whole.

i.e.


The unit disbanded is the one that is furthest from a home center.
If more than one is equidistant from a home SC, then the unit removed is one not on a supply center.
If more than one are not on a supply center then you take fleets before armies.
Then you resort to the alphabet if there choices still have not resolved into one.


In this case there was only one unit that was two spaces away from a home SC. That was Munich.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:54 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:

Yeah, I was just looking at that. What the rules don't say is which takes priority,
furtherest from home, or on a supply center or not.

But I am curious - given the three editions that have come out since my 82 edition -
what do they say? Yes, I know the DC House Rules trump the real rules, but it
would be interesting to see what they say. Especially since Kevin's email implies they
may be different.



From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 10:47:59 PM


Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Good grief. How did I miss sending in that order. Sorry guys.

Packrat is right though - the default is usually the unit furthest from the home centers. (Not just any center.) But default removals are covered by the HRS - which are in this case the default DC house rules.


"On a Winter turn an NMR (NBR/NDR) would mean that if the player was building - the builds would be waived and if the player was disbanding, units would be disbanded under the following rules[list:e36263aa38] [*:e36263aa38]Units not in a supply center before units in a supply center[*:e36263aa38]Units further from home centers before units closer to home centers [*:e36263aa38]Fleets before armies if equidistant per the above[*:e36263aa38]Alphabetical"[/list:u:e36263aa38]

Both of my units that are not on a supply center are only one space from a home center. Munich is two. As such, Jackson made the correct disband.


Long story short, the lapse on my part was unforgiveable and the forced disband is my fault. I think Jackosn made the right call.


Trout






On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

[quote:e36263aa38]Which rules are you referencing?



On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:14 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:e36263aa38] I believe the rules say HOME supply center.

The units are removed furthest from home first - regardless of
whether it is a supply center or not, armies before fleets, and
alphabetically if equidistant.



From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:11:33 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905



Folks, I have a dispute about these adjudications.

The default by Russia seems to be incorrect adjudicated, according to the DiplomaticCorp House Rules.

The rules specifically state that the first unit to be removed is a unit that is not in a supply center. Clearly, MUN is a supply center.

Then, the next criteria states that the unit which is further from a home supply center is to be removed. Both FIN and BLA are one space away from a home supply center (even though STP is not owned by Russia, it is still a Home supply center).

The third criteria is a fleet before an army will be removed. BLA is a fleet. FIN is an army. Therefore, BLA should have been removed.

Thanks,
-kevin


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:e36263aa38] Austria:
Build A Trieste
Build A Vienna
Build A Budapest


England:
Defaults, removing F Yorkshire


France:
Build A Paris
Build A Marseilles
Build F Brest


Germany:
Remove A Bohemia


Italy:
Remove F Eastern Mediterranean
Remove A Ankara


Russia:
Defaults, removing A Munich




Next orders due Friday the 26th 23:00 GMT
If this does not work let me know as I know some may be on vacation.


Kai









[/quote:e36263aa38]



[/quote:e36263aa38]








[/quote:e36263aa38]

[Reply]

dc 197 Winter 1905 - packrat   (Dec 17, 2008, 9:54 pm)
Yeah, I was just looking at that. What the rules don't say is which takes priority,
furtherest from home, or on a supply center or not.

But I am curious - given the three editions that have come out since my 82 edition -
what do they say? Yes, I know the DC House Rules trump the real rules, but it
would be interesting to see what they say. Especially since Kevin's email implies they
may be different.


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com>
To: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com; dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 10:47:59 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905

Good grief. How did I miss sending in that order. Sorry guys.

Packrat is right though - the default is usually the unit furthest from the home centers. (Not just any center.) But default removals are covered by the HRS - which are in this case the default DC house rules.


"On a Winter turn an NMR (NBR/NDR) would mean that if the player was building - the builds would be waived and if the player was disbanding, units would be disbanded under the following rules[list:04b15f3ab4] [*:04b15f3ab4]Units not in a supply center before units in a supply center[*:04b15f3ab4]Units further from home centers before units closer to home centers [*:04b15f3ab4]Fleets before armies if equidistant per the above[*:04b15f3ab4]Alphabetical"[/list:u:04b15f3ab4]

Both of my units that are not on a supply center are only one space from a home center. Munich is two. As such, Jackson made the correct disband.


Long story short, the lapse on my part was unforgiveable and the forced disband is my fault. I think Jackosn made the right call.


Trout






On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

Which rules are you referencing?



On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:14 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:04b15f3ab4] I believe the rules say HOME supply center.

The units are removed furthest from home first - regardless of
whether it is a supply center or not, armies before fleets, and
alphabetically if equidistant.



From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:11:33 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905



Folks, I have a dispute about these adjudications.

The default by Russia seems to be incorrect adjudicated, according to the DiplomaticCorp House Rules.

The rules specifically state that the first unit to be removed is a unit that is not in a supply center. Clearly, MUN is a supply center.

Then, the next criteria states that the unit which is further from a home supply center is to be removed. Both FIN and BLA are one space away from a home supply center (even though STP is not owned by Russia, it is still a Home supply center).

The third criteria is a fleet before an army will be removed. BLA is a fleet. FIN is an army. Therefore, BLA should have been removed.

Thanks,
-kevin


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:04b15f3ab4] Austria:
Build A Trieste
Build A Vienna
Build A Budapest


England:
Defaults, removing F Yorkshire


France:
Build A Paris
Build A Marseilles
Build F Brest


Germany:
Remove A Bohemia


Italy:
Remove F Eastern Mediterranean
Remove A Ankara


Russia:
Defaults, removing A Munich




Next orders due Friday the 26th 23:00 GMT
If this does not work let me know as I know some may be on vacation.


Kai









[/quote:04b15f3ab4]



[/quote:04b15f3ab4]

[Reply]

dc 197 Winter 1905 - former.trout   (Dec 17, 2008, 9:48 pm)
Good grief. How did I miss sending in that order. Sorry guys.

Packrat is right though - the default is usually the unit furthest from the home centers. (Not just any center.) But default removals are covered by the HRS - which are in this case the default DC house rules.


"On a Winter turn an NMR (NBR/NDR) would mean that if the player was building - the builds would be waived and if the player was disbanding, units would be disbanded under the following rules[list:30e91cfc62] [*:30e91cfc62]Units not in a supply center before units in a supply center[*:30e91cfc62]Units further from home centers before units closer to home centers [*:30e91cfc62]Fleets before armies if equidistant per the above[*:30e91cfc62]Alphabetical"[/list:u:30e91cfc62]

Both of my units that are not on a supply center are only one space from a home center. Munich is two. As such, Jackson made the correct disband.


Long story short, the lapse on my part was unforgiveable and the forced disband is my fault. I think Jackosn made the right call.


Trout






On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

Which rules are you referencing?



On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:14 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:30e91cfc62] I believe the rules say HOME supply center.

The units are removed furthest from home first - regardless of
whether it is a supply center or not, armies before fleets, and
alphabetically if equidistant.



From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:11:33 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905



Folks, I have a dispute about these adjudications.

The default by Russia seems to be incorrect adjudicated, according to the DiplomaticCorp House Rules.

The rules specifically state that the first unit to be removed is a unit that is not in a supply center. Clearly, MUN is a supply center.

Then, the next criteria states that the unit which is further from a home supply center is to be removed. Both FIN and BLA are one space away from a home supply center (even though STP is not owned by Russia, it is still a Home supply center).

The third criteria is a fleet before an army will be removed. BLA is a fleet. FIN is an army. Therefore, BLA should have been removed.

Thanks,
-kevin


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:30e91cfc62] Austria:
Build A Trieste
Build A Vienna
Build A Budapest


England:
Defaults, removing F Yorkshire


France:
Build A Paris
Build A Marseilles
Build F Brest


Germany:
Remove A Bohemia


Italy:
Remove F Eastern Mediterranean
Remove A Ankara


Russia:
Defaults, removing A Munich




Next orders due Friday the 26th 23:00 GMT
If this does not work let me know as I know some may be on vacation.


Kai









[/quote:30e91cfc62]



[/quote:30e91cfc62]

[Reply]

dc 197 Winter 1905 - kevinokelly   (Dec 17, 2008, 9:46 pm)
There have been 3 editions since that edition of the rules... and on top of that, we have our own set of house rules.
We'll have to see what the GM says.


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:43 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:

2nd edition, Feb 82

pg 9, item 4 - Civil-Disorder removals
unit furthest from home is removed first,(more distant from the nearest home supply center
as computed by the shortest available route, including convoys) the fleet before the army. (I had that backwards).

Munich is two moves from Warsaw, all other units are one move away from the nearest home center.


From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>

To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Cc: Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 10:24:48 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Which rules are you referencing?


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:14 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:6ea2add4a4] I believe the rules say HOME supply center.

The units are removed furthest from home first - regardless of
whether it is a supply center or not, armies before fleets, and
alphabetically if equidistant.



From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:11:33 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905



Folks, I have a dispute about these adjudications.

The default by Russia seems to be incorrect adjudicated, according to the DiplomaticCorp House Rules.

The rules specifically state that the first unit to be removed is a unit that is not in a supply center. Clearly, MUN is a supply center.

Then, the next criteria states that the unit which is further from a home supply center is to be removed. Both FIN and BLA are one space away from a home supply center (even though STP is not owned by Russia, it is still a Home supply center).

The third criteria is a fleet before an army will be removed. BLA is a fleet. FIN is an army. Therefore, BLA should have been removed.

Thanks,
-kevin


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:6ea2add4a4] Austria:
Build A Trieste
Build A Vienna
Build A Budapest


England:
Defaults, removing F Yorkshire


France:
Build A Paris
Build A Marseilles
Build F Brest


Germany:
Remove A Bohemia


Italy:
Remove F Eastern Mediterranean
Remove A Ankara


Russia:
Defaults, removing A Munich




Next orders due Friday the 26th 23:00 GMT
If this does not work let me know as I know some may be on vacation.


Kai









[/quote:6ea2add4a4]







[/quote:6ea2add4a4]

[Reply]

dc 197 Winter 1905 - packrat   (Dec 17, 2008, 9:43 pm)
2nd edition, Feb 82

pg 9, item 4 - Civil-Disorder removals
unit furthest from home is removed first,(more distant from the nearest home supply center
as computed by the shortest available route, including convoys) the fleet before the army. (I had that backwards).

Munich is two moves from Warsaw, all other units are one move away from the nearest home center.


From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com>
Cc: Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com>; former.trout(at)gmail.com; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com; dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 10:24:48 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905

Which rules are you referencing?


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:14 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:

I believe the rules say HOME supply center.

The units are removed furthest from home first - regardless of
whether it is a supply center or not, armies before fleets, and
alphabetically if equidistant.



From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:11:33 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905



Folks, I have a dispute about these adjudications.

The default by Russia seems to be incorrect adjudicated, according to the DiplomaticCorp House Rules.

The rules specifically state that the first unit to be removed is a unit that is not in a supply center. Clearly, MUN is a supply center.

Then, the next criteria states that the unit which is further from a home supply center is to be removed. Both FIN and BLA are one space away from a home supply center (even though STP is not owned by Russia, it is still a Home supply center).

The third criteria is a fleet before an army will be removed. BLA is a fleet. FIN is an army. Therefore, BLA should have been removed.

Thanks,
-kevin


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:dfc5d21ade] Austria:
Build A Trieste
Build A Vienna
Build A Budapest


England:
Defaults, removing F Yorkshire


France:
Build A Paris
Build A Marseilles
Build F Brest


Germany:
Remove A Bohemia


Italy:
Remove F Eastern Mediterranean
Remove A Ankara


Russia:
Defaults, removing A Munich




Next orders due Friday the 26th 23:00 GMT
If this does not work let me know as I know some may be on vacation.


Kai









[/quote:dfc5d21ade]

[Reply]

dc 197 Winter 1905 - kevinokelly   (Dec 17, 2008, 9:25 pm)
Which rules are you referencing?


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:14 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:

I believe the rules say HOME supply center.

The units are removed furthest from home first - regardless of
whether it is a supply center or not, armies before fleets, and
alphabetically if equidistant.



From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:11:33 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905



Folks, I have a dispute about these adjudications.

The default by Russia seems to be incorrect adjudicated, according to the DiplomaticCorp House Rules.

The rules specifically state that the first unit to be removed is a unit that is not in a supply center. Clearly, MUN is a supply center.

Then, the next criteria states that the unit which is further from a home supply center is to be removed. Both FIN and BLA are one space away from a home supply center (even though STP is not owned by Russia, it is still a Home supply center).

The third criteria is a fleet before an army will be removed. BLA is a fleet. FIN is an army. Therefore, BLA should have been removed.

Thanks,
-kevin


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:3ed77131c9] Austria:
Build A Trieste
Build A Vienna
Build A Budapest


England:
Defaults, removing F Yorkshire


France:
Build A Paris
Build A Marseilles
Build F Brest


Germany:
Remove A Bohemia


Italy:
Remove F Eastern Mediterranean
Remove A Ankara


Russia:
Defaults, removing A Munich




Next orders due Friday the 26th 23:00 GMT
If this does not work let me know as I know some may be on vacation.


Kai









[/quote:3ed77131c9]

[Reply]

WWIV s09 retreats! (map tweak) - FuzzyLogic   (Dec 17, 2008, 8:27 pm)
A little tweak to the Turkish flag, so we can tell the red Turks from the red Chinese.
-mike





From: Michael Sims
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 9:56 AM


All 5 retreats are in early, so we’ll try to squeeze a turn in by Christmas!

NEXT: Fall 09, due Tuesday 12/23, 10am Pacific! – 1 week from today.

Only a couple have spoken up about any holiday schedules, so I’ll keep running the turns, and assume all have access to email during the festivities.

RETREATS:

AmazonEmpire:
F Honduras(hon) - Western Caribbean Sea(wcb)

Illinois:
A Chihuahua(chu) - Coahuila(coa)

Mexico:
F Guatamala Basin(gub) - Acapulco(aca)
F Western Gulf of Mexico(wgm) - Veracruz(vcz)
A San Antonio(san) - Monterey(mon)

Russia:
A Norway(nwy) - Finland(fin)

SichuanEmpire:
A Seoul(seo) - Korea(kor)

[Reply]

dc 197 Winter 1905 - packrat   (Dec 17, 2008, 8:15 pm)
I believe the rules say HOME supply center.

The units are removed furthest from home first - regardless of
whether it is a supply center or not, armies before fleets, and
alphabetically if equidistant.


From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com>
To: Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com>; former.trout(at)gmail.com; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com; dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:11:33 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905

Folks, I have a dispute about these adjudications.

The default by Russia seems to be incorrect adjudicated, according to the DiplomaticCorp House Rules.

The rules specifically state that the first unit to be removed is a unit that is not in a supply center. Clearly, MUN is a supply center.

Then, the next criteria states that the unit which is further from a home supply center is to be removed. Both FIN and BLA are one space away from a home supply center (even though STP is not owned by Russia, it is still a Home supply center).

The third criteria is a fleet before an army will be removed. BLA is a fleet. FIN is an army. Therefore, BLA should have been removed.

Thanks,
-kevin


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

Austria:
Build A Trieste
Build A Vienna
Build A Budapest


England:
Defaults, removing F Yorkshire


France:
Build A Paris
Build A Marseilles
Build F Brest


Germany:
Remove A Bohemia


Italy:
Remove F Eastern Mediterranean
Remove A Ankara


Russia:
Defaults, removing A Munich




Next orders due Friday the 26th 23:00 GMT
If this does not work let me know as I know some may be on vacation.


Kai

[Reply]

dc 197 Winter 1905 - kevinokelly   (Dec 17, 2008, 8:12 pm)
Folks, I have a dispute about these adjudications.

The default by Russia seems to be incorrect adjudicated, according to the DiplomaticCorp House Rules.

The rules specifically state that the first unit to be removed is a unit that is not in a supply center. Clearly, MUN is a supply center.

Then, the next criteria states that the unit which is further from a home supply center is to be removed. Both FIN and BLA are one space away from a home supply center (even though STP is not owned by Russia, it is still a Home supply center).

The third criteria is a fleet before an army will be removed. BLA is a fleet. FIN is an army. Therefore, BLA should have been removed.

Thanks,
-kevin


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

Austria:
Build A Trieste
Build A Vienna
Build A Budapest


England:
Defaults, removing F Yorkshire


France:
Build A Paris
Build A Marseilles
Build F Brest


Germany:
Remove A Bohemia


Italy:
Remove F Eastern Mediterranean
Remove A Ankara


Russia:
Defaults, removing A Munich




Next orders due Friday the 26th 23:00 GMT
If this does not work let me know as I know some may be on vacation.


Kai

[Reply]

DC223 - Autumn 1902 Adjudication - bielf11   (Dec 17, 2008, 8:02 pm)
Austria army Munich retreats to Bohemia.
Italy sees its units increase by 2 and Austria has to disband one.
What was that again about an alliance between Italy and Austria?

Ownership:
Austria: Budapest, Greece, Vienna.
England: Edinburgh, Liverpool, London, Norway.
France: Belgium, Brest, Marseilles, Paris, Portugal, Spain.
Germany: Berlin, Denmark, Holland, Kiel, Munich.
Italy: Naples, Rome, Serbia, Trieste, Tunis, Venice.
Russia: Moscow, Rumania, Sevastopol, St Petersburg, Sweden, Warsaw.
Turkey: Ankara, Bulgaria, Constantinople, Smyrna.

Adjustments:
Austria: Supp 3 Unit 4 Remove 1
England: Supp 4 Unit 4 Build 0
France: Supp 6 Unit 5 Build 1
Germany: Supp 5 Unit 4 Build 1
Italy: Supp 6 Unit 4 Build 2
Russia: Supp 6 Unit 6 Build 0
Turkey: Supp 4 Unit 4 Build 0

Deadline for Winter 1902 adjustments is Sunday Dec 28, at 23:00 GMT.
If however I have all adjustments in before the 20th, I may adjudicate Winter before my departure.
In that case the Dec 28 deadline will be for Spring 1903.

Frank

[Reply]

DC223 - Autumn 1902 Adjudication (dc223) simon.gwilliam at baes... Dec 18, 02:47 am
I'm fine with the dates - I doubt I'd get much access to a computer over xmas anyway.


Durdatha whye

Simon H Gwilliam
Surface Ship Command Systems
simon.gwilliam(at)baesystems.com
Tel: 02083295931
Apex Tower, New Malden


From: F Bielschowsky [mailto:bielschowsky.f(at)googlemail.com]
Sent: 18 December 2008 02:02
To: dc223(at)diplomaticcorp.com; Doug Wooden (DC223 FRA); Gwilliam, Simon (UK); Jack McHugh - Flapjack (DC223 AH / DC201 Sverige); Joao Carvalho (DC223 RUS); Joshua Tag (DC223 TUR); Stefan Krekeler (DC223 GER); maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk; Simon Gwilliam
Cc: Former Trout (DC190 South Africa / DC176 Austria / DC195 Argentina / DC201 France); Steve Lytton (DC195 Columbia / DC201 Norge)
Subject: DC223 - Autumn 1902 Adjudication



*** WARNING ***

This mail has originated outside your organization,
either from an external partner or the Global Internet.
Keep this in mind if you answer this message.
Austria army Munich retreats to Bohemia.
Italy sees its units increase by 2 and Austria has to disband one.
What was that again about an alliance between Italy and Austria?

Ownership:
Austria: Budapest, Greece, Vienna.
England: Edinburgh, Liverpool, London, Norway.
France: Belgium, Brest, Marseilles, Paris, Portugal, Spain.
Germany: Berlin, Denmark, Holland, Kiel, Munich.
Italy: Naples, Rome, Serbia, Trieste, Tunis, Venice.
Russia: Moscow, Rumania, Sevastopol, St Petersburg, Sweden, Warsaw.
Turkey: Ankara, Bulgaria, Constantinople, Smyrna.

Adjustments:
Austria: Supp 3 Unit 4 Remove 1
England: Supp 4 Unit 4 Build 0
France: Supp 6 Unit 5 Build 1
Germany: Supp 5 Unit 4 Build 1
Italy: Supp 6 Unit 4 Build 2
Russia: Supp 6 Unit 6 Build 0
Turkey: Supp 4 Unit 4 Build 0

Deadline for Winter 1902 adjustments is Sunday Dec 28, at 23:00 GMT.
If however I have all adjustments in before the 20th, I may adjudicate Winter before my departure.
In that case the Dec 28 deadline will be for Spring 1903.

Frank
DC223 - Autumn 1902 Adjudication (dc223) simon.gwilliam at baes... Dec 18, 02:47 am
I'm fine with the dates - I doubt I'd get much access to a computer over xmas anyway.


Durdatha whye

Simon H Gwilliam
Surface Ship Command Systems
simon.gwilliam(at)baesystems.com
Tel: 02083295931
Apex Tower, New Malden


From: F Bielschowsky [mailto:bielschowsky.f(at)googlemail.com]
Sent: 18 December 2008 02:02
To: dc223(at)diplomaticcorp.com; Doug Wooden (DC223 FRA); Gwilliam, Simon (UK); Jack McHugh - Flapjack (DC223 AH / DC201 Sverige); Joao Carvalho (DC223 RUS); Joshua Tag (DC223 TUR); Stefan Krekeler (DC223 GER); maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk; Simon Gwilliam
Cc: Former Trout (DC190 South Africa / DC176 Austria / DC195 Argentina / DC201 France); Steve Lytton (DC195 Columbia / DC201 Norge)
Subject: DC223 - Autumn 1902 Adjudication



*** WARNING ***

This mail has originated outside your organization,
either from an external partner or the Global Internet.
Keep this in mind if you answer this message.
Austria army Munich retreats to Bohemia.
Italy sees its units increase by 2 and Austria has to disband one.
What was that again about an alliance between Italy and Austria?

Ownership:
Austria: Budapest, Greece, Vienna.
England: Edinburgh, Liverpool, London, Norway.
France: Belgium, Brest, Marseilles, Paris, Portugal, Spain.
Germany: Berlin, Denmark, Holland, Kiel, Munich.
Italy: Naples, Rome, Serbia, Trieste, Tunis, Venice.
Russia: Moscow, Rumania, Sevastopol, St Petersburg, Sweden, Warsaw.
Turkey: Ankara, Bulgaria, Constantinople, Smyrna.

Adjustments:
Austria: Supp 3 Unit 4 Remove 1
England: Supp 4 Unit 4 Build 0
France: Supp 6 Unit 5 Build 1
Germany: Supp 5 Unit 4 Build 1
Italy: Supp 6 Unit 4 Build 2
Russia: Supp 6 Unit 6 Build 0
Turkey: Supp 4 Unit 4 Build 0

Deadline for Winter 1902 adjustments is Sunday Dec 28, at 23:00 GMT.
If however I have all adjustments in before the 20th, I may adjudicate Winter before my departure.
In that case the Dec 28 deadline will be for Spring 1903.

Frank
DC223 - Autumn 1902 Adjudication (dc223) FlapJack Dec 18, 10:48 am
dates are fine with me..i'm working half days on both dec 24th and Dec 26th (i'm off both days but i work two jobs and each one is dec 24 and one is off dec 26)...so i'm on if you need me...

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:01 PM, F Bielschowsky <bielschowsky.f(at)googlemail.com ([email]bielschowsky.f(at)googlemail.com[/email])> wrote:

Austria army Munich retreats to Bohemia.
Italy sees its units increase by 2 and Austria has to disband one.
What was that again about an alliance between Italy and Austria?

Ownership:
Austria: Budapest, Greece, Vienna.
England: Edinburgh, Liverpool, London, Norway.
France: Belgium, Brest, Marseilles, Paris, Portugal, Spain.
Germany: Berlin, Denmark, Holland, Kiel, Munich.
Italy: Naples, Rome, Serbia, Trieste, Tunis, Venice.
Russia: Moscow, Rumania, Sevastopol, St Petersburg, Sweden, Warsaw.
Turkey: Ankara, Bulgaria, Constantinople, Smyrna.

Adjustments:
Austria: Supp 3 Unit 4 Remove 1
England: Supp 4 Unit 4 Build 0
France: Supp 6 Unit 5 Build 1
Germany: Supp 5 Unit 4 Build 1
Italy: Supp 6 Unit 4 Build 2
Russia: Supp 6 Unit 6 Build 0
Turkey: Supp 4 Unit 4 Build 0

Deadline for Winter 1902 adjustments is Sunday Dec 28, at 23:00 GMT.
If however I have all adjustments in before the 20th, I may adjudicate Winter before my departure.
In that case the Dec 28 deadline will be for Spring 1903.

Frank

DC223 - Autumn 1902 Adjudication (dc223) sanjat312 Dec 18, 10:59 am
I'm good, of course (no builds). Have a great holiday season!
Thanks,
Josh

--- On Thu, 12/18/08, Jack McHugh <jwmchughjr(at)gmail.com> wrote:

From: Jack McHugh <jwmchughjr(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: DC223 - Autumn 1902 Adjudication
To: bielschowsky.f(at)gmail.com
Cc: dc223(at)diplomaticcorp.com, "Doug Wooden (DC223 FRA)" <dougwooden(at)gmail.com>, "Gwilliam, Simon (DC223 ITA)" <simon.gwilliam(at)baesystems.com>, "Joao Carvalho (DC223 RUS)" <jpfalcao(at)mac.com>, "Joshua Tag (DC223 TUR)" <sanjat312(at)yahoo.com>, "Stefan Krekeler (DC223 GER)" <Stefan.Krekeler(at)web.de>, "maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk" <maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk>, "Simon Gwilliam" <bassdrum13(at)hotmail.com>, "Former Trout (DC190 South Africa / DC176 Austria / DC195 Argentina / DC201 France)" <former.trout(at)gmail.com>, "Steve Lytton (DC195 Columbia / DC201 Norge)" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Thursday, December 18, 2008, 8:47 AM

dates are fine with me..i'm working half days on both dec 24th and Dec 26th (i'm off both days but i work two jobs and each one is dec 24 and one is off dec 26)...so i'm on if you need me...

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:01 PM, F Bielschowsky <bielschowsky.f(at)googlemail.com ([email]bielschowsky.f(at)googlemail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:f995790027] Austria army Munich retreats to Bohemia.
Italy sees its units increase by 2 and Austria has to disband one.
What was that again about an alliance between Italy and Austria?

Ownership:
Austria: Budapest, Greece, Vienna.
England: Edinburgh, Liverpool, London, Norway.
France: Belgium, Brest, Marseilles, Paris, Portugal, Spain.
Germany: Berlin, Denmark, Holland, Kiel, Munich.
Italy: Naples, Rome, Serbia, Trieste, Tunis, Venice.
Russia: Moscow, Rumania, Sevastopol, St Petersburg, Sweden, Warsaw.
Turkey: Ankara, Bulgaria, Constantinople, Smyrna.

Adjustments:
Austria: Supp 3 Unit 4 Remove 1
England: Supp 4 Unit 4 Build 0
France: Supp 6 Unit 5 Build 1
Germany: Supp 5 Unit 4 Build 1
Italy: Supp 6 Unit 4 Build 2
Russia: Supp 6 Unit 6 Build 0
Turkey: Supp 4 Unit 4 Build 0

Deadline for Winter 1902 adjustments is Sunday Dec 28, at 23:00 GMT.
If however I have all adjustments in before the 20th, I may adjudicate Winter before my departure.
In that case the Dec 28 deadline will be for Spring 1903.

Frank




[/quote:f995790027]
Eastern World 901-Comments Requested - david_e_cohen   (Dec 17, 2008, 7:46 pm)
This is the eastern counterpart to the Western World 901 subvariant/precursor to my very large Known World 901 variant, with the changes being near the western, southern and northern edges of the map to fix chopped up borders and for playability purposes. For information on the other two variants, you can look on my web site (http://diplomiscellany.tripod.com/). There is some overlap between the EW901 and WW901 maps (the two easternmost Powers of WW901 are the two westernmost Powers of EW901--the two sub Saharan Powers are in neither subvariant.). For those who think that WW901 and especially KW901 are just too large, this variant really has more of the scale of Standard. There are 6 Powers and 41 Supply Centers. The rules are the same as those of WW901, so the only substantive changes are Chaos style builds and holding neutral armies. I am looking for any comments and criticisms you would care to offer.


[Reply]

dc 197 Winter 1905 - Kai   (Dec 17, 2008, 7:05 pm)
Austria:
Build A Trieste
Build A Vienna
Build A Budapest


England:
Defaults, removing F Yorkshire


France:
Build A Paris
Build A Marseilles
Build F Brest


Germany:
Remove A Bohemia


Italy:
Remove F Eastern Mediterranean
Remove A Ankara


Russia:
Defaults, removing A Munich




Next orders due Friday the 26th 23:00 GMT
If this does not work let me know as I know some may be on vacation.


Kai

[Reply]

dc 197 Winter 1905 (dc197) kevinokelly Dec 17, 08:12 pm
Folks, I have a dispute about these adjudications.

The default by Russia seems to be incorrect adjudicated, according to the DiplomaticCorp House Rules.

The rules specifically state that the first unit to be removed is a unit that is not in a supply center. Clearly, MUN is a supply center.

Then, the next criteria states that the unit which is further from a home supply center is to be removed. Both FIN and BLA are one space away from a home supply center (even though STP is not owned by Russia, it is still a Home supply center).

The third criteria is a fleet before an army will be removed. BLA is a fleet. FIN is an army. Therefore, BLA should have been removed.

Thanks,
-kevin


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

Austria:
Build A Trieste
Build A Vienna
Build A Budapest


England:
Defaults, removing F Yorkshire


France:
Build A Paris
Build A Marseilles
Build F Brest


Germany:
Remove A Bohemia


Italy:
Remove F Eastern Mediterranean
Remove A Ankara


Russia:
Defaults, removing A Munich




Next orders due Friday the 26th 23:00 GMT
If this does not work let me know as I know some may be on vacation.


Kai

dc 197 Winter 1905 (dc197) packrat Dec 17, 08:15 pm
I believe the rules say HOME supply center.

The units are removed furthest from home first - regardless of
whether it is a supply center or not, armies before fleets, and
alphabetically if equidistant.


From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com>
To: Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com>; former.trout(at)gmail.com; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com; dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:11:33 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905

Folks, I have a dispute about these adjudications.

The default by Russia seems to be incorrect adjudicated, according to the DiplomaticCorp House Rules.

The rules specifically state that the first unit to be removed is a unit that is not in a supply center. Clearly, MUN is a supply center.

Then, the next criteria states that the unit which is further from a home supply center is to be removed. Both FIN and BLA are one space away from a home supply center (even though STP is not owned by Russia, it is still a Home supply center).

The third criteria is a fleet before an army will be removed. BLA is a fleet. FIN is an army. Therefore, BLA should have been removed.

Thanks,
-kevin


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

Austria:
Build A Trieste
Build A Vienna
Build A Budapest


England:
Defaults, removing F Yorkshire


France:
Build A Paris
Build A Marseilles
Build F Brest


Germany:
Remove A Bohemia


Italy:
Remove F Eastern Mediterranean
Remove A Ankara


Russia:
Defaults, removing A Munich




Next orders due Friday the 26th 23:00 GMT
If this does not work let me know as I know some may be on vacation.


Kai

dc 197 Winter 1905 (dc197) kevinokelly Dec 17, 09:25 pm
Which rules are you referencing?


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:14 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:

I believe the rules say HOME supply center.

The units are removed furthest from home first - regardless of
whether it is a supply center or not, armies before fleets, and
alphabetically if equidistant.



From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:11:33 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905



Folks, I have a dispute about these adjudications.

The default by Russia seems to be incorrect adjudicated, according to the DiplomaticCorp House Rules.

The rules specifically state that the first unit to be removed is a unit that is not in a supply center. Clearly, MUN is a supply center.

Then, the next criteria states that the unit which is further from a home supply center is to be removed. Both FIN and BLA are one space away from a home supply center (even though STP is not owned by Russia, it is still a Home supply center).

The third criteria is a fleet before an army will be removed. BLA is a fleet. FIN is an army. Therefore, BLA should have been removed.

Thanks,
-kevin


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:3ed77131c9] Austria:
Build A Trieste
Build A Vienna
Build A Budapest


England:
Defaults, removing F Yorkshire


France:
Build A Paris
Build A Marseilles
Build F Brest


Germany:
Remove A Bohemia


Italy:
Remove F Eastern Mediterranean
Remove A Ankara


Russia:
Defaults, removing A Munich




Next orders due Friday the 26th 23:00 GMT
If this does not work let me know as I know some may be on vacation.


Kai









[/quote:3ed77131c9]
dc 197 Winter 1905 (dc197) packrat Dec 17, 09:43 pm
2nd edition, Feb 82

pg 9, item 4 - Civil-Disorder removals
unit furthest from home is removed first,(more distant from the nearest home supply center
as computed by the shortest available route, including convoys) the fleet before the army. (I had that backwards).

Munich is two moves from Warsaw, all other units are one move away from the nearest home center.


From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com>
Cc: Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com>; former.trout(at)gmail.com; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com; dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 10:24:48 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905

Which rules are you referencing?


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:14 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:

I believe the rules say HOME supply center.

The units are removed furthest from home first - regardless of
whether it is a supply center or not, armies before fleets, and
alphabetically if equidistant.



From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:11:33 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905



Folks, I have a dispute about these adjudications.

The default by Russia seems to be incorrect adjudicated, according to the DiplomaticCorp House Rules.

The rules specifically state that the first unit to be removed is a unit that is not in a supply center. Clearly, MUN is a supply center.

Then, the next criteria states that the unit which is further from a home supply center is to be removed. Both FIN and BLA are one space away from a home supply center (even though STP is not owned by Russia, it is still a Home supply center).

The third criteria is a fleet before an army will be removed. BLA is a fleet. FIN is an army. Therefore, BLA should have been removed.

Thanks,
-kevin


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:dfc5d21ade] Austria:
Build A Trieste
Build A Vienna
Build A Budapest


England:
Defaults, removing F Yorkshire


France:
Build A Paris
Build A Marseilles
Build F Brest


Germany:
Remove A Bohemia


Italy:
Remove F Eastern Mediterranean
Remove A Ankara


Russia:
Defaults, removing A Munich




Next orders due Friday the 26th 23:00 GMT
If this does not work let me know as I know some may be on vacation.


Kai









[/quote:dfc5d21ade]
dc 197 Winter 1905 (dc197) kevinokelly Dec 17, 09:46 pm
There have been 3 editions since that edition of the rules... and on top of that, we have our own set of house rules.
We'll have to see what the GM says.


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:43 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:

2nd edition, Feb 82

pg 9, item 4 - Civil-Disorder removals
unit furthest from home is removed first,(more distant from the nearest home supply center
as computed by the shortest available route, including convoys) the fleet before the army. (I had that backwards).

Munich is two moves from Warsaw, all other units are one move away from the nearest home center.


From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>

To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Cc: Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 10:24:48 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Which rules are you referencing?


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:14 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:6ea2add4a4] I believe the rules say HOME supply center.

The units are removed furthest from home first - regardless of
whether it is a supply center or not, armies before fleets, and
alphabetically if equidistant.



From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:11:33 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905



Folks, I have a dispute about these adjudications.

The default by Russia seems to be incorrect adjudicated, according to the DiplomaticCorp House Rules.

The rules specifically state that the first unit to be removed is a unit that is not in a supply center. Clearly, MUN is a supply center.

Then, the next criteria states that the unit which is further from a home supply center is to be removed. Both FIN and BLA are one space away from a home supply center (even though STP is not owned by Russia, it is still a Home supply center).

The third criteria is a fleet before an army will be removed. BLA is a fleet. FIN is an army. Therefore, BLA should have been removed.

Thanks,
-kevin


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:6ea2add4a4] Austria:
Build A Trieste
Build A Vienna
Build A Budapest


England:
Defaults, removing F Yorkshire


France:
Build A Paris
Build A Marseilles
Build F Brest


Germany:
Remove A Bohemia


Italy:
Remove F Eastern Mediterranean
Remove A Ankara


Russia:
Defaults, removing A Munich




Next orders due Friday the 26th 23:00 GMT
If this does not work let me know as I know some may be on vacation.


Kai









[/quote:6ea2add4a4]







[/quote:6ea2add4a4]
dc 197 Winter 1905 (dc197) former.trout Dec 17, 09:48 pm
Good grief. How did I miss sending in that order. Sorry guys.

Packrat is right though - the default is usually the unit furthest from the home centers. (Not just any center.) But default removals are covered by the HRS - which are in this case the default DC house rules.


"On a Winter turn an NMR (NBR/NDR) would mean that if the player was building - the builds would be waived and if the player was disbanding, units would be disbanded under the following rules[list:30e91cfc62] [*:30e91cfc62]Units not in a supply center before units in a supply center[*:30e91cfc62]Units further from home centers before units closer to home centers [*:30e91cfc62]Fleets before armies if equidistant per the above[*:30e91cfc62]Alphabetical"[/list:u:30e91cfc62]

Both of my units that are not on a supply center are only one space from a home center. Munich is two. As such, Jackson made the correct disband.


Long story short, the lapse on my part was unforgiveable and the forced disband is my fault. I think Jackosn made the right call.


Trout






On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

Which rules are you referencing?



On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:14 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:30e91cfc62] I believe the rules say HOME supply center.

The units are removed furthest from home first - regardless of
whether it is a supply center or not, armies before fleets, and
alphabetically if equidistant.



From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:11:33 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905



Folks, I have a dispute about these adjudications.

The default by Russia seems to be incorrect adjudicated, according to the DiplomaticCorp House Rules.

The rules specifically state that the first unit to be removed is a unit that is not in a supply center. Clearly, MUN is a supply center.

Then, the next criteria states that the unit which is further from a home supply center is to be removed. Both FIN and BLA are one space away from a home supply center (even though STP is not owned by Russia, it is still a Home supply center).

The third criteria is a fleet before an army will be removed. BLA is a fleet. FIN is an army. Therefore, BLA should have been removed.

Thanks,
-kevin


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:30e91cfc62] Austria:
Build A Trieste
Build A Vienna
Build A Budapest


England:
Defaults, removing F Yorkshire


France:
Build A Paris
Build A Marseilles
Build F Brest


Germany:
Remove A Bohemia


Italy:
Remove F Eastern Mediterranean
Remove A Ankara


Russia:
Defaults, removing A Munich




Next orders due Friday the 26th 23:00 GMT
If this does not work let me know as I know some may be on vacation.


Kai









[/quote:30e91cfc62]



[/quote:30e91cfc62]
dc 197 Winter 1905 (dc197) packrat Dec 17, 09:54 pm
Yeah, I was just looking at that. What the rules don't say is which takes priority,
furtherest from home, or on a supply center or not.

But I am curious - given the three editions that have come out since my 82 edition -
what do they say? Yes, I know the DC House Rules trump the real rules, but it
would be interesting to see what they say. Especially since Kevin's email implies they
may be different.


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com>
To: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com; dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 10:47:59 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905

Good grief. How did I miss sending in that order. Sorry guys.

Packrat is right though - the default is usually the unit furthest from the home centers. (Not just any center.) But default removals are covered by the HRS - which are in this case the default DC house rules.


"On a Winter turn an NMR (NBR/NDR) would mean that if the player was building - the builds would be waived and if the player was disbanding, units would be disbanded under the following rules[list:04b15f3ab4] [*:04b15f3ab4]Units not in a supply center before units in a supply center[*:04b15f3ab4]Units further from home centers before units closer to home centers [*:04b15f3ab4]Fleets before armies if equidistant per the above[*:04b15f3ab4]Alphabetical"[/list:u:04b15f3ab4]

Both of my units that are not on a supply center are only one space from a home center. Munich is two. As such, Jackson made the correct disband.


Long story short, the lapse on my part was unforgiveable and the forced disband is my fault. I think Jackosn made the right call.


Trout






On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

Which rules are you referencing?



On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:14 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:04b15f3ab4] I believe the rules say HOME supply center.

The units are removed furthest from home first - regardless of
whether it is a supply center or not, armies before fleets, and
alphabetically if equidistant.



From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:11:33 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905



Folks, I have a dispute about these adjudications.

The default by Russia seems to be incorrect adjudicated, according to the DiplomaticCorp House Rules.

The rules specifically state that the first unit to be removed is a unit that is not in a supply center. Clearly, MUN is a supply center.

Then, the next criteria states that the unit which is further from a home supply center is to be removed. Both FIN and BLA are one space away from a home supply center (even though STP is not owned by Russia, it is still a Home supply center).

The third criteria is a fleet before an army will be removed. BLA is a fleet. FIN is an army. Therefore, BLA should have been removed.

Thanks,
-kevin


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:04b15f3ab4] Austria:
Build A Trieste
Build A Vienna
Build A Budapest


England:
Defaults, removing F Yorkshire


France:
Build A Paris
Build A Marseilles
Build F Brest


Germany:
Remove A Bohemia


Italy:
Remove F Eastern Mediterranean
Remove A Ankara


Russia:
Defaults, removing A Munich




Next orders due Friday the 26th 23:00 GMT
If this does not work let me know as I know some may be on vacation.


Kai









[/quote:04b15f3ab4]



[/quote:04b15f3ab4]
dc 197 Winter 1905 (dc197) former.trout Dec 17, 10:01 pm
None of those take precedence over each other - they are meant to be taken as a whole.

i.e.


The unit disbanded is the one that is furthest from a home center.
If more than one is equidistant from a home SC, then the unit removed is one not on a supply center.
If more than one are not on a supply center then you take fleets before armies.
Then you resort to the alphabet if there choices still have not resolved into one.


In this case there was only one unit that was two spaces away from a home SC. That was Munich.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:54 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:

Yeah, I was just looking at that. What the rules don't say is which takes priority,
furtherest from home, or on a supply center or not.

But I am curious - given the three editions that have come out since my 82 edition -
what do they say? Yes, I know the DC House Rules trump the real rules, but it
would be interesting to see what they say. Especially since Kevin's email implies they
may be different.



From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 10:47:59 PM


Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Good grief. How did I miss sending in that order. Sorry guys.

Packrat is right though - the default is usually the unit furthest from the home centers. (Not just any center.) But default removals are covered by the HRS - which are in this case the default DC house rules.


"On a Winter turn an NMR (NBR/NDR) would mean that if the player was building - the builds would be waived and if the player was disbanding, units would be disbanded under the following rules[list:e36263aa38] [*:e36263aa38]Units not in a supply center before units in a supply center[*:e36263aa38]Units further from home centers before units closer to home centers [*:e36263aa38]Fleets before armies if equidistant per the above[*:e36263aa38]Alphabetical"[/list:u:e36263aa38]

Both of my units that are not on a supply center are only one space from a home center. Munich is two. As such, Jackson made the correct disband.


Long story short, the lapse on my part was unforgiveable and the forced disband is my fault. I think Jackosn made the right call.


Trout






On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

[quote:e36263aa38]Which rules are you referencing?



On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:14 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:e36263aa38] I believe the rules say HOME supply center.

The units are removed furthest from home first - regardless of
whether it is a supply center or not, armies before fleets, and
alphabetically if equidistant.



From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:11:33 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905



Folks, I have a dispute about these adjudications.

The default by Russia seems to be incorrect adjudicated, according to the DiplomaticCorp House Rules.

The rules specifically state that the first unit to be removed is a unit that is not in a supply center. Clearly, MUN is a supply center.

Then, the next criteria states that the unit which is further from a home supply center is to be removed. Both FIN and BLA are one space away from a home supply center (even though STP is not owned by Russia, it is still a Home supply center).

The third criteria is a fleet before an army will be removed. BLA is a fleet. FIN is an army. Therefore, BLA should have been removed.

Thanks,
-kevin


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:e36263aa38] Austria:
Build A Trieste
Build A Vienna
Build A Budapest


England:
Defaults, removing F Yorkshire


France:
Build A Paris
Build A Marseilles
Build F Brest


Germany:
Remove A Bohemia


Italy:
Remove F Eastern Mediterranean
Remove A Ankara


Russia:
Defaults, removing A Munich




Next orders due Friday the 26th 23:00 GMT
If this does not work let me know as I know some may be on vacation.


Kai









[/quote:e36263aa38]



[/quote:e36263aa38]








[/quote:e36263aa38]
dc 197 Winter 1905 (dc197) packrat Dec 17, 10:15 pm
so then if you had a unit in MUN and SYR - the unit in SYR would
then be disbanded?


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com>
Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com; dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:00:40 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905

None of those take precedence over each other - they are meant to be taken as a whole.

i.e.


The unit disbanded is the one that is furthest from a home center.
If more than one is equidistant from a home SC, then the unit removed is one not on a supply center.
If more than one are not on a supply center then you take fleets before armies.
Then you resort to the alphabet if there choices still have not resolved into one.


In this case there was only one unit that was two spaces away from a home SC. That was Munich.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:54 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:

Yeah, I was just looking at that. What the rules don't say is which takes priority,
furtherest from home, or on a supply center or not.

But I am curious - given the three editions that have come out since my 82 edition -
what do they say? Yes, I know the DC House Rules trump the real rules, but it
would be interesting to see what they say. Especially since Kevin's email implies they
may be different.



From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 10:47:59 PM


Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Good grief. How did I miss sending in that order. Sorry guys.

Packrat is right though - the default is usually the unit furthest from the home centers. (Not just any center.) But default removals are covered by the HRS - which are in this case the default DC house rules.


"On a Winter turn an NMR (NBR/NDR) would mean that if the player was building - the builds would be waived and if the player was disbanding, units would be disbanded under the following rules[list:73c46716bc] [*:73c46716bc]Units not in a supply center before units in a supply center[*:73c46716bc]Units further from home centers before units closer to home centers [*:73c46716bc]Fleets before armies if equidistant per the above[*:73c46716bc]Alphabetical"[/list:u:73c46716bc]

Both of my units that are not on a supply center are only one space from a home center. Munich is two. As such, Jackson made the correct disband.


Long story short, the lapse on my part was unforgiveable and the forced disband is my fault. I think Jackosn made the right call.


Trout






On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

[quote:73c46716bc]Which rules are you referencing?



On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:14 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:73c46716bc] I believe the rules say HOME supply center.

The units are removed furthest from home first - regardless of
whether it is a supply center or not, armies before fleets, and
alphabetically if equidistant.



From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:11:33 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905



Folks, I have a dispute about these adjudications.

The default by Russia seems to be incorrect adjudicated, according to the DiplomaticCorp House Rules.

The rules specifically state that the first unit to be removed is a unit that is not in a supply center. Clearly, MUN is a supply center.

Then, the next criteria states that the unit which is further from a home supply center is to be removed. Both FIN and BLA are one space away from a home supply center (even though STP is not owned by Russia, it is still a Home supply center).

The third criteria is a fleet before an army will be removed. BLA is a fleet. FIN is an army. Therefore, BLA should have been removed.

Thanks,
-kevin


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:73c46716bc] Austria:
Build A Trieste
Build A Vienna
Build A Budapest


England:
Defaults, removing F Yorkshire


France:
Build A Paris
Build A Marseilles
Build F Brest


Germany:
Remove A Bohemia


Italy:
Remove F Eastern Mediterranean
Remove A Ankara


Russia:
Defaults, removing A Munich




Next orders due Friday the 26th 23:00 GMT
If this does not work let me know as I know some may be on vacation.


Kai









[/quote:73c46716bc]



[/quote:73c46716bc]








[/quote:73c46716bc]
dc 197 Winter 1905 (dc197) former.trout Dec 17, 10:19 pm
Exactly. Because both are two spaces away from Russias home SCs. Then you take the one that is not on an SC itself.

Go one step further. Same example but add a fleet in the Norwegian Sea. In that case, it would be the fleet that gets disbanded and Munich and Syria would both stay on the board.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:15 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:

so then if you had a unit in MUN and SYR - the unit in SYR would
then be disbanded?


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>

To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>

Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:00:40 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




None of those take precedence over each other - they are meant to be taken as a whole.

i.e.


The unit disbanded is the one that is furthest from a home center.
If more than one is equidistant from a home SC, then the unit removed is one not on a supply center.
If more than one are not on a supply center then you take fleets before armies.
Then you resort to the alphabet if there choices still have not resolved into one.


In this case there was only one unit that was two spaces away from a home SC. That was Munich.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:54 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:0d86d0a824] Yeah, I was just looking at that. What the rules don't say is which takes priority,
furtherest from home, or on a supply center or not.

But I am curious - given the three editions that have come out since my 82 edition -
what do they say? Yes, I know the DC House Rules trump the real rules, but it
would be interesting to see what they say. Especially since Kevin's email implies they
may be different.



From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 10:47:59 PM


Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Good grief. How did I miss sending in that order. Sorry guys.

Packrat is right though - the default is usually the unit furthest from the home centers. (Not just any center.) But default removals are covered by the HRS - which are in this case the default DC house rules.


"On a Winter turn an NMR (NBR/NDR) would mean that if the player was building - the builds would be waived and if the player was disbanding, units would be disbanded under the following rules[list:0d86d0a824] [*:0d86d0a824]Units not in a supply center before units in a supply center[*:0d86d0a824]Units further from home centers before units closer to home centers [*:0d86d0a824]Fleets before armies if equidistant per the above[*:0d86d0a824]Alphabetical"[/list:u:0d86d0a824]

Both of my units that are not on a supply center are only one space from a home center. Munich is two. As such, Jackson made the correct disband.


Long story short, the lapse on my part was unforgiveable and the forced disband is my fault. I think Jackosn made the right call.


Trout






On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

[quote:0d86d0a824]Which rules are you referencing?



On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:14 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:0d86d0a824] I believe the rules say HOME supply center.

The units are removed furthest from home first - regardless of
whether it is a supply center or not, armies before fleets, and
alphabetically if equidistant.



From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:11:33 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905



Folks, I have a dispute about these adjudications.

The default by Russia seems to be incorrect adjudicated, according to the DiplomaticCorp House Rules.

The rules specifically state that the first unit to be removed is a unit that is not in a supply center. Clearly, MUN is a supply center.

Then, the next criteria states that the unit which is further from a home supply center is to be removed. Both FIN and BLA are one space away from a home supply center (even though STP is not owned by Russia, it is still a Home supply center).

The third criteria is a fleet before an army will be removed. BLA is a fleet. FIN is an army. Therefore, BLA should have been removed.

Thanks,
-kevin


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:0d86d0a824] Austria:
Build A Trieste
Build A Vienna
Build A Budapest


England:
Defaults, removing F Yorkshire


France:
Build A Paris
Build A Marseilles
Build F Brest


Germany:
Remove A Bohemia


Italy:
Remove F Eastern Mediterranean
Remove A Ankara


Russia:
Defaults, removing A Munich




Next orders due Friday the 26th 23:00 GMT
If this does not work let me know as I know some may be on vacation.


Kai









[/quote:0d86d0a824]



[/quote:0d86d0a824]








[/quote:0d86d0a824]








[/quote:0d86d0a824]
dc 197 Winter 1905 (dc197) packrat Dec 17, 10:22 pm
yes - even if the unit in SYR was also a fleet.


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com>
Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com; dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:18:57 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905

Exactly. Because both are two spaces away from Russias home SCs. Then you take the one that is not on an SC itself.

Go one step further. Same example but add a fleet in the Norwegian Sea. In that case, it would be the fleet that gets disbanded and Munich and Syria would both stay on the board.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:15 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:

so then if you had a unit in MUN and SYR - the unit in SYR would
then be disbanded?


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>

To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>

Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:00:40 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




None of those take precedence over each other - they are meant to be taken as a whole.

i.e.


The unit disbanded is the one that is furthest from a home center.
If more than one is equidistant from a home SC, then the unit removed is one not on a supply center.
If more than one are not on a supply center then you take fleets before armies.
Then you resort to the alphabet if there choices still have not resolved into one.


In this case there was only one unit that was two spaces away from a home SC. That was Munich.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:54 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:28e55c999e] Yeah, I was just looking at that. What the rules don't say is which takes priority,
furtherest from home, or on a supply center or not.

But I am curious - given the three editions that have come out since my 82 edition -
what do they say? Yes, I know the DC House Rules trump the real rules, but it
would be interesting to see what they say. Especially since Kevin's email implies they
may be different.



From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 10:47:59 PM


Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Good grief. How did I miss sending in that order. Sorry guys.

Packrat is right though - the default is usually the unit furthest from the home centers. (Not just any center.) But default removals are covered by the HRS - which are in this case the default DC house rules.


"On a Winter turn an NMR (NBR/NDR) would mean that if the player was building - the builds would be waived and if the player was disbanding, units would be disbanded under the following rules[list:28e55c999e] [*:28e55c999e]Units not in a supply center before units in a supply center[*:28e55c999e]Units further from home centers before units closer to home centers [*:28e55c999e]Fleets before armies if equidistant per the above[*:28e55c999e]Alphabetical"[/list:u:28e55c999e]

Both of my units that are not on a supply center are only one space from a home center. Munich is two. As such, Jackson made the correct disband.


Long story short, the lapse on my part was unforgiveable and the forced disband is my fault. I think Jackosn made the right call.


Trout






On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

[quote:28e55c999e]Which rules are you referencing?



On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:14 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:28e55c999e] I believe the rules say HOME supply center.

The units are removed furthest from home first - regardless of
whether it is a supply center or not, armies before fleets, and
alphabetically if equidistant.



From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:11:33 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905



Folks, I have a dispute about these adjudications.

The default by Russia seems to be incorrect adjudicated, according to the DiplomaticCorp House Rules.

The rules specifically state that the first unit to be removed is a unit that is not in a supply center. Clearly, MUN is a supply center.

Then, the next criteria states that the unit which is further from a home supply center is to be removed. Both FIN and BLA are one space away from a home supply center (even though STP is not owned by Russia, it is still a Home supply center).

The third criteria is a fleet before an army will be removed. BLA is a fleet. FIN is an army. Therefore, BLA should have been removed.

Thanks,
-kevin


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:28e55c999e] Austria:
Build A Trieste
Build A Vienna
Build A Budapest


England:
Defaults, removing F Yorkshire


France:
Build A Paris
Build A Marseilles
Build F Brest


Germany:
Remove A Bohemia


Italy:
Remove F Eastern Mediterranean
Remove A Ankara


Russia:
Defaults, removing A Munich




Next orders due Friday the 26th 23:00 GMT
If this does not work let me know as I know some may be on vacation.


Kai









[/quote:28e55c999e]



[/quote:28e55c999e]








[/quote:28e55c999e]








[/quote:28e55c999e]
dc 197 Winter 1905 (dc197) former.trout Dec 17, 10:24 pm
Right on. Because if the unit in Syria was a fleet then the alphabetical part of the calculation comes in... Norwegian (N) before Syria (S)...


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:21 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:

yes - even if the unit in SYR was also a fleet.


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:18:57 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Exactly. Because both are two spaces away from Russias home SCs. Then you take the one that is not on an SC itself.

Go one step further. Same example but add a fleet in the Norwegian Sea. In that case, it would be the fleet that gets disbanded and Munich and Syria would both stay on the board.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:15 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:5e41d4c3e8] so then if you had a unit in MUN and SYR - the unit in SYR would
then be disbanded?


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>

To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>

Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:00:40 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




None of those take precedence over each other - they are meant to be taken as a whole.

i.e.


The unit disbanded is the one that is furthest from a home center.
If more than one is equidistant from a home SC, then the unit removed is one not on a supply center.
If more than one are not on a supply center then you take fleets before armies.
Then you resort to the alphabet if there choices still have not resolved into one.


In this case there was only one unit that was two spaces away from a home SC. That was Munich.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:54 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:5e41d4c3e8] Yeah, I was just looking at that. What the rules don't say is which takes priority,
furtherest from home, or on a supply center or not.

But I am curious - given the three editions that have come out since my 82 edition -
what do they say? Yes, I know the DC House Rules trump the real rules, but it
would be interesting to see what they say. Especially since Kevin's email implies they
may be different.



From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 10:47:59 PM


Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Good grief. How did I miss sending in that order. Sorry guys.

Packrat is right though - the default is usually the unit furthest from the home centers. (Not just any center.) But default removals are covered by the HRS - which are in this case the default DC house rules.


"On a Winter turn an NMR (NBR/NDR) would mean that if the player was building - the builds would be waived and if the player was disbanding, units would be disbanded under the following rules[list:5e41d4c3e8] [*:5e41d4c3e8]Units not in a supply center before units in a supply center[*:5e41d4c3e8]Units further from home centers before units closer to home centers [*:5e41d4c3e8]Fleets before armies if equidistant per the above[*:5e41d4c3e8]Alphabetical"[/list:u:5e41d4c3e8]

Both of my units that are not on a supply center are only one space from a home center. Munich is two. As such, Jackson made the correct disband.


Long story short, the lapse on my part was unforgiveable and the forced disband is my fault. I think Jackosn made the right call.


Trout






On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

[quote:5e41d4c3e8]Which rules are you referencing?



On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:14 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:5e41d4c3e8] I believe the rules say HOME supply center.

The units are removed furthest from home first - regardless of
whether it is a supply center or not, armies before fleets, and
alphabetically if equidistant.



From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:11:33 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905



Folks, I have a dispute about these adjudications.

The default by Russia seems to be incorrect adjudicated, according to the DiplomaticCorp House Rules.

The rules specifically state that the first unit to be removed is a unit that is not in a supply center. Clearly, MUN is a supply center.

Then, the next criteria states that the unit which is further from a home supply center is to be removed. Both FIN and BLA are one space away from a home supply center (even though STP is not owned by Russia, it is still a Home supply center).

The third criteria is a fleet before an army will be removed. BLA is a fleet. FIN is an army. Therefore, BLA should have been removed.

Thanks,
-kevin


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:5e41d4c3e8] Austria:
Build A Trieste
Build A Vienna
Build A Budapest


England:
Defaults, removing F Yorkshire


France:
Build A Paris
Build A Marseilles
Build F Brest


Germany:
Remove A Bohemia


Italy:
Remove F Eastern Mediterranean
Remove A Ankara


Russia:
Defaults, removing A Munich




Next orders due Friday the 26th 23:00 GMT
If this does not work let me know as I know some may be on vacation.


Kai









[/quote:5e41d4c3e8]



[/quote:5e41d4c3e8]








[/quote:5e41d4c3e8]








[/quote:5e41d4c3e8]








[/quote:5e41d4c3e8]
dc 197 Winter 1905 (dc197) kevinokelly Dec 17, 10:24 pm
Nope, because a fleet in SYR is not two spaces away from a Russian province.

In that case, the fleet in SYR would be removed, because even at the least, the fleet in SYR is 4 spaces away from SEV.


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 10:21 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:

yes - even if the unit in SYR was also a fleet.


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:18:57 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Exactly. Because both are two spaces away from Russias home SCs. Then you take the one that is not on an SC itself.

Go one step further. Same example but add a fleet in the Norwegian Sea. In that case, it would be the fleet that gets disbanded and Munich and Syria would both stay on the board.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:15 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:1ad925bc52] so then if you had a unit in MUN and SYR - the unit in SYR would
then be disbanded?


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>

To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>

Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:00:40 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




None of those take precedence over each other - they are meant to be taken as a whole.

i.e.


The unit disbanded is the one that is furthest from a home center.
If more than one is equidistant from a home SC, then the unit removed is one not on a supply center.
If more than one are not on a supply center then you take fleets before armies.
Then you resort to the alphabet if there choices still have not resolved into one.


In this case there was only one unit that was two spaces away from a home SC. That was Munich.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:54 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:1ad925bc52] Yeah, I was just looking at that. What the rules don't say is which takes priority,
furtherest from home, or on a supply center or not.

But I am curious - given the three editions that have come out since my 82 edition -
what do they say? Yes, I know the DC House Rules trump the real rules, but it
would be interesting to see what they say. Especially since Kevin's email implies they
may be different.



From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 10:47:59 PM


Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Good grief. How did I miss sending in that order. Sorry guys.

Packrat is right though - the default is usually the unit furthest from the home centers. (Not just any center.) But default removals are covered by the HRS - which are in this case the default DC house rules.


"On a Winter turn an NMR (NBR/NDR) would mean that if the player was building - the builds would be waived and if the player was disbanding, units would be disbanded under the following rules [list:1ad925bc52] [*:1ad925bc52]Units not in a supply center before units in a supply center [*:1ad925bc52]Units further from home centers before units closer to home centers [*:1ad925bc52]Fleets before armies if equidistant per the above [*:1ad925bc52]Alphabetical"[/list:u:1ad925bc52]

Both of my units that are not on a supply center are only one space from a home center. Munich is two. As such, Jackson made the correct disband.


Long story short, the lapse on my part was unforgiveable and the forced disband is my fault. I think Jackosn made the right call.


Trout






On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

[quote:1ad925bc52] Which rules are you referencing?



On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:14 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:1ad925bc52] I believe the rules say HOME supply center.

The units are removed furthest from home first - regardless of
whether it is a supply center or not, armies before fleets, and
alphabetically if equidistant.



From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:11:33 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905



Folks, I have a dispute about these adjudications.

The default by Russia seems to be incorrect adjudicated, according to the DiplomaticCorp House Rules.

The rules specifically state that the first unit to be removed is a unit that is not in a supply center. Clearly, MUN is a supply center.

Then, the next criteria states that the unit which is further from a home supply center is to be removed. Both FIN and BLA are one space away from a home supply center (even though STP is not owned by Russia, it is still a Home supply center).

The third criteria is a fleet before an army will be removed. BLA is a fleet. FIN is an army. Therefore, BLA should have been removed.

Thanks,
-kevin


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:1ad925bc52] Austria:
Build A Trieste
Build A Vienna
Build A Budapest


England:
Defaults, removing F Yorkshire


France:
Build A Paris
Build A Marseilles
Build F Brest


Germany:
Remove A Bohemia


Italy:
Remove F Eastern Mediterranean
Remove A Ankara


Russia:
Defaults, removing A Munich




Next orders due Friday the 26th 23:00 GMT
If this does not work let me know as I know some may be on vacation.


Kai









[/quote:1ad925bc52]



[/quote:1ad925bc52]








[/quote:1ad925bc52]








[/quote:1ad925bc52]








[/quote:1ad925bc52]
dc 197 Winter 1905 (dc197) former.trout Dec 17, 10:25 pm
What happened to Armenia? Did we suddenly pop into a seismic game? =P

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

Nope, because a fleet in SYR is not two spaces away from a Russian province.

In that case, the fleet in SYR would be removed, because even at the least, the fleet in SYR is 4 spaces away from SEV.



On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 10:21 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:3e59b494a9] yes - even if the unit in SYR was also a fleet.


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:18:57 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Exactly. Because both are two spaces away from Russias home SCs. Then you take the one that is not on an SC itself.

Go one step further. Same example but add a fleet in the Norwegian Sea. In that case, it would be the fleet that gets disbanded and Munich and Syria would both stay on the board.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:15 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:3e59b494a9] so then if you had a unit in MUN and SYR - the unit in SYR would
then be disbanded?


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>

To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>

Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:00:40 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




None of those take precedence over each other - they are meant to be taken as a whole.

i.e.


The unit disbanded is the one that is furthest from a home center.
If more than one is equidistant from a home SC, then the unit removed is one not on a supply center.
If more than one are not on a supply center then you take fleets before armies.
Then you resort to the alphabet if there choices still have not resolved into one.


In this case there was only one unit that was two spaces away from a home SC. That was Munich.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:54 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:3e59b494a9] Yeah, I was just looking at that. What the rules don't say is which takes priority,
furtherest from home, or on a supply center or not.

But I am curious - given the three editions that have come out since my 82 edition -
what do they say? Yes, I know the DC House Rules trump the real rules, but it
would be interesting to see what they say. Especially since Kevin's email implies they
may be different.



From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 10:47:59 PM


Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Good grief. How did I miss sending in that order. Sorry guys.

Packrat is right though - the default is usually the unit furthest from the home centers. (Not just any center.) But default removals are covered by the HRS - which are in this case the default DC house rules.


"On a Winter turn an NMR (NBR/NDR) would mean that if the player was building - the builds would be waived and if the player was disbanding, units would be disbanded under the following rules [list:3e59b494a9] [*:3e59b494a9]Units not in a supply center before units in a supply center [*:3e59b494a9]Units further from home centers before units closer to home centers [*:3e59b494a9]Fleets before armies if equidistant per the above [*:3e59b494a9]Alphabetical"[/list:u:3e59b494a9]

Both of my units that are not on a supply center are only one space from a home center. Munich is two. As such, Jackson made the correct disband.


Long story short, the lapse on my part was unforgiveable and the forced disband is my fault. I think Jackosn made the right call.


Trout






On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

[quote:3e59b494a9] Which rules are you referencing?



On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:14 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:3e59b494a9] I believe the rules say HOME supply center.

The units are removed furthest from home first - regardless of
whether it is a supply center or not, armies before fleets, and
alphabetically if equidistant.



From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:11:33 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905



Folks, I have a dispute about these adjudications.

The default by Russia seems to be incorrect adjudicated, according to the DiplomaticCorp House Rules.

The rules specifically state that the first unit to be removed is a unit that is not in a supply center. Clearly, MUN is a supply center.

Then, the next criteria states that the unit which is further from a home supply center is to be removed. Both FIN and BLA are one space away from a home supply center (even though STP is not owned by Russia, it is still a Home supply center).

The third criteria is a fleet before an army will be removed. BLA is a fleet. FIN is an army. Therefore, BLA should have been removed.

Thanks,
-kevin


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:3e59b494a9] Austria:
Build A Trieste
Build A Vienna
Build A Budapest


England:
Defaults, removing F Yorkshire


France:
Build A Paris
Build A Marseilles
Build F Brest


Germany:
Remove A Bohemia


Italy:
Remove F Eastern Mediterranean
Remove A Ankara


Russia:
Defaults, removing A Munich




Next orders due Friday the 26th 23:00 GMT
If this does not work let me know as I know some may be on vacation.


Kai









[/quote:3e59b494a9]



[/quote:3e59b494a9]








[/quote:3e59b494a9]








[/quote:3e59b494a9]








[/quote:3e59b494a9]



[/quote:3e59b494a9]
dc 197 Winter 1905 (dc197) packrat Dec 17, 10:27 pm
No, I think he may be correct - SYR can NOT go to ARM.
If we are taking convoys into account then I think the intent
is that the route the unit must take is important as well.




From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com>
To: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com; dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:25:17 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905

What happened to Armenia? Did we suddenly pop into a seismic game? =P

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

Nope, because a fleet in SYR is not two spaces away from a Russian province.

In that case, the fleet in SYR would be removed, because even at the least, the fleet in SYR is 4 spaces away from SEV.



On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 10:21 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:0c7a8b3c81] yes - even if the unit in SYR was also a fleet.


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:18:57 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Exactly. Because both are two spaces away from Russias home SCs. Then you take the one that is not on an SC itself.

Go one step further. Same example but add a fleet in the Norwegian Sea. In that case, it would be the fleet that gets disbanded and Munich and Syria would both stay on the board.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:15 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:0c7a8b3c81] so then if you had a unit in MUN and SYR - the unit in SYR would
then be disbanded?


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>

To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>

Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:00:40 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




None of those take precedence over each other - they are meant to be taken as a whole.

i.e.


The unit disbanded is the one that is furthest from a home center.
If more than one is equidistant from a home SC, then the unit removed is one not on a supply center.
If more than one are not on a supply center then you take fleets before armies.
Then you resort to the alphabet if there choices still have not resolved into one.


In this case there was only one unit that was two spaces away from a home SC. That was Munich.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:54 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:0c7a8b3c81] Yeah, I was just looking at that. What the rules don't say is which takes priority,
furtherest from home, or on a supply center or not.

But I am curious - given the three editions that have come out since my 82 edition -
what do they say? Yes, I know the DC House Rules trump the real rules, but it
would be interesting to see what they say. Especially since Kevin's email implies they
may be different.



From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 10:47:59 PM


Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Good grief. How did I miss sending in that order. Sorry guys.

Packrat is right though - the default is usually the unit furthest from the home centers. (Not just any center.) But default removals are covered by the HRS - which are in this case the default DC house rules.


"On a Winter turn an NMR (NBR/NDR) would mean that if the player was building - the builds would be waived and if the player was disbanding, units would be disbanded under the following rules [list:0c7a8b3c81] [*:0c7a8b3c81]Units not in a supply center before units in a supply center [*:0c7a8b3c81]Units further from home centers before units closer to home centers [*:0c7a8b3c81]Fleets before armies if equidistant per the above [*:0c7a8b3c81]Alphabetical"[/list:u:0c7a8b3c81]

Both of my units that are not on a supply center are only one space from a home center. Munich is two. As such, Jackson made the correct disband.


Long story short, the lapse on my part was unforgiveable and the forced disband is my fault. I think Jackosn made the right call.


Trout






On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

[quote:0c7a8b3c81] Which rules are you referencing?



On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:14 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:0c7a8b3c81] I believe the rules say HOME supply center.

The units are removed furthest from home first - regardless of
whether it is a supply center or not, armies before fleets, and
alphabetically if equidistant.



From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:11:33 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905



Folks, I have a dispute about these adjudications.

The default by Russia seems to be incorrect adjudicated, according to the DiplomaticCorp House Rules.

The rules specifically state that the first unit to be removed is a unit that is not in a supply center. Clearly, MUN is a supply center.

Then, the next criteria states that the unit which is further from a home supply center is to be removed. Both FIN and BLA are one space away from a home supply center (even though STP is not owned by Russia, it is still a Home supply center).

The third criteria is a fleet before an army will be removed. BLA is a fleet. FIN is an army. Therefore, BLA should have been removed.

Thanks,
-kevin


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:0c7a8b3c81] Austria:
Build A Trieste
Build A Vienna
Build A Budapest


England:
Defaults, removing F Yorkshire


France:
Build A Paris
Build A Marseilles
Build F Brest


Germany:
Remove A Bohemia


Italy:
Remove F Eastern Mediterranean
Remove A Ankara


Russia:
Defaults, removing A Munich




Next orders due Friday the 26th 23:00 GMT
If this does not work let me know as I know some may be on vacation.


Kai









[/quote:0c7a8b3c81]



[/quote:0c7a8b3c81]








[/quote:0c7a8b3c81]








[/quote:0c7a8b3c81]








[/quote:0c7a8b3c81]



[/quote:0c7a8b3c81]
dc 197 Winter 1905 (dc197) kevinokelly Dec 17, 10:29 pm
I believe convoys don't count. It is per unit, not per route.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 10:27 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:

No, I think he may be correct - SYR can NOT go to ARM.
If we are taking convoys into account then I think the intent
is that the route the unit must take is important as well.




From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:25:17 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




What happened to Armenia? Did we suddenly pop into a seismic game? =P

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:5dd610dfbc] Nope, because a fleet in SYR is not two spaces away from a Russian province.

In that case, the fleet in SYR would be removed, because even at the least, the fleet in SYR is 4 spaces away from SEV.



On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 10:21 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:5dd610dfbc] yes - even if the unit in SYR was also a fleet.


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:18:57 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Exactly. Because both are two spaces away from Russias home SCs. Then you take the one that is not on an SC itself.

Go one step further. Same example but add a fleet in the Norwegian Sea. In that case, it would be the fleet that gets disbanded and Munich and Syria would both stay on the board.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:15 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:5dd610dfbc] so then if you had a unit in MUN and SYR - the unit in SYR would
then be disbanded?


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>

To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>

Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:00:40 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




None of those take precedence over each other - they are meant to be taken as a whole.

i.e.


The unit disbanded is the one that is furthest from a home center.
If more than one is equidistant from a home SC, then the unit removed is one not on a supply center.
If more than one are not on a supply center then you take fleets before armies.
Then you resort to the alphabet if there choices still have not resolved into one.


In this case there was only one unit that was two spaces away from a home SC. That was Munich.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:54 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:5dd610dfbc] Yeah, I was just looking at that. What the rules don't say is which takes priority,
furtherest from home, or on a supply center or not.

But I am curious - given the three editions that have come out since my 82 edition -
what do they say? Yes, I know the DC House Rules trump the real rules, but it
would be interesting to see what they say. Especially since Kevin's email implies they
may be different.



From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 10:47:59 PM


Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Good grief. How did I miss sending in that order. Sorry guys.

Packrat is right though - the default is usually the unit furthest from the home centers. (Not just any center.) But default removals are covered by the HRS - which are in this case the default DC house rules.


"On a Winter turn an NMR (NBR/NDR) would mean that if the player was building - the builds would be waived and if the player was disbanding, units would be disbanded under the following rules [list:5dd610dfbc] [*:5dd610dfbc]Units not in a supply center before units in a supply center [*:5dd610dfbc]Units further from home centers before units closer to home centers [*:5dd610dfbc]Fleets before armies if equidistant per the above [*:5dd610dfbc]Alphabetical"[/list:u:5dd610dfbc]

Both of my units that are not on a supply center are only one space from a home center. Munich is two. As such, Jackson made the correct disband.


Long story short, the lapse on my part was unforgiveable and the forced disband is my fault. I think Jackosn made the right call.


Trout






On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

[quote:5dd610dfbc] Which rules are you referencing?



On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:14 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:5dd610dfbc] I believe the rules say HOME supply center.

The units are removed furthest from home first - regardless of
whether it is a supply center or not, armies before fleets, and
alphabetically if equidistant.



From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:11:33 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905



Folks, I have a dispute about these adjudications.

The default by Russia seems to be incorrect adjudicated, according to the DiplomaticCorp House Rules.

The rules specifically state that the first unit to be removed is a unit that is not in a supply center. Clearly, MUN is a supply center.

Then, the next criteria states that the unit which is further from a home supply center is to be removed. Both FIN and BLA are one space away from a home supply center (even though STP is not owned by Russia, it is still a Home supply center).

The third criteria is a fleet before an army will be removed. BLA is a fleet. FIN is an army. Therefore, BLA should have been removed.

Thanks,
-kevin


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:5dd610dfbc] Austria:
Build A Trieste
Build A Vienna
Build A Budapest


England:
Defaults, removing F Yorkshire


France:
Build A Paris
Build A Marseilles
Build F Brest


Germany:
Remove A Bohemia


Italy:
Remove F Eastern Mediterranean
Remove A Ankara


Russia:
Defaults, removing A Munich




Next orders due Friday the 26th 23:00 GMT
If this does not work let me know as I know some may be on vacation.


Kai









[/quote:5dd610dfbc]



[/quote:5dd610dfbc]








[/quote:5dd610dfbc]








[/quote:5dd610dfbc]








[/quote:5dd610dfbc]



[/quote:5dd610dfbc]







[/quote:5dd610dfbc]
dc 197 Winter 1905 (dc197) former.trout Dec 17, 10:30 pm
Number of spaces is counted regardless of unit type. Whether the unit is a fleet or an army is irrelevent. For the purpose of calculating distance from a home SC, the unit is either X number of spaces or it is not.

You guys are adding sub-text where there isn't any.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:27 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:

No, I think he may be correct - SYR can NOT go to ARM.
If we are taking convoys into account then I think the intent
is that the route the unit must take is important as well.




From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:25:17 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




What happened to Armenia? Did we suddenly pop into a seismic game? =P

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:59f7faca75]Nope, because a fleet in SYR is not two spaces away from a Russian province.

In that case, the fleet in SYR would be removed, because even at the least, the fleet in SYR is 4 spaces away from SEV.



On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 10:21 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:59f7faca75] yes - even if the unit in SYR was also a fleet.


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:18:57 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Exactly. Because both are two spaces away from Russias home SCs. Then you take the one that is not on an SC itself.

Go one step further. Same example but add a fleet in the Norwegian Sea. In that case, it would be the fleet that gets disbanded and Munich and Syria would both stay on the board.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:15 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:59f7faca75] so then if you had a unit in MUN and SYR - the unit in SYR would
then be disbanded?


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>

To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>

Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:00:40 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




None of those take precedence over each other - they are meant to be taken as a whole.

i.e.


The unit disbanded is the one that is furthest from a home center.
If more than one is equidistant from a home SC, then the unit removed is one not on a supply center.
If more than one are not on a supply center then you take fleets before armies.
Then you resort to the alphabet if there choices still have not resolved into one.


In this case there was only one unit that was two spaces away from a home SC. That was Munich.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:54 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:59f7faca75] Yeah, I was just looking at that. What the rules don't say is which takes priority,
furtherest from home, or on a supply center or not.

But I am curious - given the three editions that have come out since my 82 edition -
what do they say? Yes, I know the DC House Rules trump the real rules, but it
would be interesting to see what they say. Especially since Kevin's email implies they
may be different.



From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 10:47:59 PM


Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Good grief. How did I miss sending in that order. Sorry guys.

Packrat is right though - the default is usually the unit furthest from the home centers. (Not just any center.) But default removals are covered by the HRS - which are in this case the default DC house rules.


"On a Winter turn an NMR (NBR/NDR) would mean that if the player was building - the builds would be waived and if the player was disbanding, units would be disbanded under the following rules [list:59f7faca75] [*:59f7faca75]Units not in a supply center before units in a supply center [*:59f7faca75]Units further from home centers before units closer to home centers [*:59f7faca75]Fleets before armies if equidistant per the above [*:59f7faca75]Alphabetical"[/list:u:59f7faca75]

Both of my units that are not on a supply center are only one space from a home center. Munich is two. As such, Jackson made the correct disband.


Long story short, the lapse on my part was unforgiveable and the forced disband is my fault. I think Jackosn made the right call.


Trout






On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

[quote:59f7faca75] Which rules are you referencing?



On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:14 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:59f7faca75] I believe the rules say HOME supply center.

The units are removed furthest from home first - regardless of
whether it is a supply center or not, armies before fleets, and
alphabetically if equidistant.



From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:11:33 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905



Folks, I have a dispute about these adjudications.

The default by Russia seems to be incorrect adjudicated, according to the DiplomaticCorp House Rules.

The rules specifically state that the first unit to be removed is a unit that is not in a supply center. Clearly, MUN is a supply center.

Then, the next criteria states that the unit which is further from a home supply center is to be removed. Both FIN and BLA are one space away from a home supply center (even though STP is not owned by Russia, it is still a Home supply center).

The third criteria is a fleet before an army will be removed. BLA is a fleet. FIN is an army. Therefore, BLA should have been removed.

Thanks,
-kevin


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:59f7faca75] Austria:
Build A Trieste
Build A Vienna
Build A Budapest


England:
Defaults, removing F Yorkshire


France:
Build A Paris
Build A Marseilles
Build F Brest


Germany:
Remove A Bohemia


Italy:
Remove F Eastern Mediterranean
Remove A Ankara


Russia:
Defaults, removing A Munich




Next orders due Friday the 26th 23:00 GMT
If this does not work let me know as I know some may be on vacation.


Kai









[/quote:59f7faca75]



[/quote:59f7faca75]








[/quote:59f7faca75]








[/quote:59f7faca75]








[/quote:59f7faca75]



[/quote:59f7faca75]







[/quote:59f7faca75]
dc 197 Winter 1905 (dc197) packrat Dec 17, 10:31 pm
They counted in the 82 edition

From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com>
Cc: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com; dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:29:12 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905

I believe convoys don't count. It is per unit, not per route.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 10:27 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:

No, I think he may be correct - SYR can NOT go to ARM.
If we are taking convoys into account then I think the intent
is that the route the unit must take is important as well.




From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:25:17 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




What happened to Armenia? Did we suddenly pop into a seismic game? =P

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:b4cf77b5a0] Nope, because a fleet in SYR is not two spaces away from a Russian province.

In that case, the fleet in SYR would be removed, because even at the least, the fleet in SYR is 4 spaces away from SEV.



On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 10:21 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:b4cf77b5a0] yes - even if the unit in SYR was also a fleet.


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:18:57 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Exactly. Because both are two spaces away from Russias home SCs. Then you take the one that is not on an SC itself.

Go one step further. Same example but add a fleet in the Norwegian Sea. In that case, it would be the fleet that gets disbanded and Munich and Syria would both stay on the board.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:15 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:b4cf77b5a0] so then if you had a unit in MUN and SYR - the unit in SYR would
then be disbanded?


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>

To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>

Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:00:40 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




None of those take precedence over each other - they are meant to be taken as a whole.

i.e.


The unit disbanded is the one that is furthest from a home center.
If more than one is equidistant from a home SC, then the unit removed is one not on a supply center.
If more than one are not on a supply center then you take fleets before armies.
Then you resort to the alphabet if there choices still have not resolved into one.


In this case there was only one unit that was two spaces away from a home SC. That was Munich.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:54 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:b4cf77b5a0] Yeah, I was just looking at that. What the rules don't say is which takes priority,
furtherest from home, or on a supply center or not.

But I am curious - given the three editions that have come out since my 82 edition -
what do they say? Yes, I know the DC House Rules trump the real rules, but it
would be interesting to see what they say. Especially since Kevin's email implies they
may be different.



From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 10:47:59 PM


Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Good grief. How did I miss sending in that order. Sorry guys.

Packrat is right though - the default is usually the unit furthest from the home centers. (Not just any center.) But default removals are covered by the HRS - which are in this case the default DC house rules.


"On a Winter turn an NMR (NBR/NDR) would mean that if the player was building - the builds would be waived and if the player was disbanding, units would be disbanded under the following rules [list:b4cf77b5a0] [*:b4cf77b5a0]Units not in a supply center before units in a supply center [*:b4cf77b5a0]Units further from home centers before units closer to home centers [*:b4cf77b5a0]Fleets before armies if equidistant per the above [*:b4cf77b5a0]Alphabetical"[/list:u:b4cf77b5a0]

Both of my units that are not on a supply center are only one space from a home center. Munich is two. As such, Jackson made the correct disband.


Long story short, the lapse on my part was unforgiveable and the forced disband is my fault. I think Jackosn made the right call.


Trout






On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

[quote:b4cf77b5a0] Which rules are you referencing?



On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:14 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:b4cf77b5a0] I believe the rules say HOME supply center.

The units are removed furthest from home first - regardless of
whether it is a supply center or not, armies before fleets, and
alphabetically if equidistant.



From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:11:33 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905



Folks, I have a dispute about these adjudications.

The default by Russia seems to be incorrect adjudicated, according to the DiplomaticCorp House Rules.

The rules specifically state that the first unit to be removed is a unit that is not in a supply center. Clearly, MUN is a supply center.

Then, the next criteria states that the unit which is further from a home supply center is to be removed. Both FIN and BLA are one space away from a home supply center (even though STP is not owned by Russia, it is still a Home supply center).

The third criteria is a fleet before an army will be removed. BLA is a fleet. FIN is an army. Therefore, BLA should have been removed.

Thanks,
-kevin


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:b4cf77b5a0] Austria:
Build A Trieste
Build A Vienna
Build A Budapest


England:
Defaults, removing F Yorkshire


France:
Build A Paris
Build A Marseilles
Build F Brest


Germany:
Remove A Bohemia


Italy:
Remove F Eastern Mediterranean
Remove A Ankara


Russia:
Defaults, removing A Munich




Next orders due Friday the 26th 23:00 GMT
If this does not work let me know as I know some may be on vacation.


Kai









[/quote:b4cf77b5a0]



[/quote:b4cf77b5a0]








[/quote:b4cf77b5a0]








[/quote:b4cf77b5a0]








[/quote:b4cf77b5a0]



[/quote:b4cf77b5a0]







[/quote:b4cf77b5a0]
dc 197 Winter 1905 (dc197) packrat Dec 17, 10:32 pm
nope - the 82 rules say "as computed by the shortest route"


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com>
Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com; dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:29:20 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905

Number of spaces is counted regardless of unit type. Whether the unit is a fleet or an army is irrelevent. For the purpose of calculating distance from a home SC, the unit is either X number of spaces or it is not.

You guys are adding sub-text where there isn't any.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:27 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:

No, I think he may be correct - SYR can NOT go to ARM.
If we are taking convoys into account then I think the intent
is that the route the unit must take is important as well.




From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:25:17 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




What happened to Armenia? Did we suddenly pop into a seismic game? =P

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:9eef85941d]Nope, because a fleet in SYR is not two spaces away from a Russian province.

In that case, the fleet in SYR would be removed, because even at the least, the fleet in SYR is 4 spaces away from SEV.



On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 10:21 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:9eef85941d] yes - even if the unit in SYR was also a fleet.


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:18:57 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Exactly. Because both are two spaces away from Russias home SCs. Then you take the one that is not on an SC itself.

Go one step further. Same example but add a fleet in the Norwegian Sea. In that case, it would be the fleet that gets disbanded and Munich and Syria would both stay on the board.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:15 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:9eef85941d] so then if you had a unit in MUN and SYR - the unit in SYR would
then be disbanded?


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>

To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>

Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:00:40 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




None of those take precedence over each other - they are meant to be taken as a whole.

i.e.


The unit disbanded is the one that is furthest from a home center.
If more than one is equidistant from a home SC, then the unit removed is one not on a supply center.
If more than one are not on a supply center then you take fleets before armies.
Then you resort to the alphabet if there choices still have not resolved into one.


In this case there was only one unit that was two spaces away from a home SC. That was Munich.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:54 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:9eef85941d] Yeah, I was just looking at that. What the rules don't say is which takes priority,
furtherest from home, or on a supply center or not.

But I am curious - given the three editions that have come out since my 82 edition -
what do they say? Yes, I know the DC House Rules trump the real rules, but it
would be interesting to see what they say. Especially since Kevin's email implies they
may be different.



From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 10:47:59 PM


Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Good grief. How did I miss sending in that order. Sorry guys.

Packrat is right though - the default is usually the unit furthest from the home centers. (Not just any center.) But default removals are covered by the HRS - which are in this case the default DC house rules.


"On a Winter turn an NMR (NBR/NDR) would mean that if the player was building - the builds would be waived and if the player was disbanding, units would be disbanded under the following rules [list:9eef85941d] [*:9eef85941d]Units not in a supply center before units in a supply center [*:9eef85941d]Units further from home centers before units closer to home centers [*:9eef85941d]Fleets before armies if equidistant per the above [*:9eef85941d]Alphabetical"[/list:u:9eef85941d]

Both of my units that are not on a supply center are only one space from a home center. Munich is two. As such, Jackson made the correct disband.


Long story short, the lapse on my part was unforgiveable and the forced disband is my fault. I think Jackosn made the right call.


Trout






On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

[quote:9eef85941d] Which rules are you referencing?



On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:14 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:9eef85941d] I believe the rules say HOME supply center.

The units are removed furthest from home first - regardless of
whether it is a supply center or not, armies before fleets, and
alphabetically if equidistant.



From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:11:33 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905



Folks, I have a dispute about these adjudications.

The default by Russia seems to be incorrect adjudicated, according to the DiplomaticCorp House Rules.

The rules specifically state that the first unit to be removed is a unit that is not in a supply center. Clearly, MUN is a supply center.

Then, the next criteria states that the unit which is further from a home supply center is to be removed. Both FIN and BLA are one space away from a home supply center (even though STP is not owned by Russia, it is still a Home supply center).

The third criteria is a fleet before an army will be removed. BLA is a fleet. FIN is an army. Therefore, BLA should have been removed.

Thanks,
-kevin


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:9eef85941d] Austria:
Build A Trieste
Build A Vienna
Build A Budapest


England:
Defaults, removing F Yorkshire


France:
Build A Paris
Build A Marseilles
Build F Brest


Germany:
Remove A Bohemia


Italy:
Remove F Eastern Mediterranean
Remove A Ankara


Russia:
Defaults, removing A Munich




Next orders due Friday the 26th 23:00 GMT
If this does not work let me know as I know some may be on vacation.


Kai









[/quote:9eef85941d]



[/quote:9eef85941d]








[/quote:9eef85941d]








[/quote:9eef85941d]








[/quote:9eef85941d]



[/quote:9eef85941d]







[/quote:9eef85941d]
dc 197 Winter 1905 (dc197) former.trout Dec 17, 10:33 pm
Here's a simpler way of putting it:

The number of spaces are counted using the shortest path - regardless of whether a unit can move there or not.


Least, that's the way I've always done it and always understood it to be done.



On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:31 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:

They counted in the 82 edition

From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>

To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>

Cc: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:29:12 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




I believe convoys don't count. It is per unit, not per route.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 10:27 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:09996d90a8] No, I think he may be correct - SYR can NOT go to ARM.
If we are taking convoys into account then I think the intent
is that the route the unit must take is important as well.




From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:25:17 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




What happened to Armenia? Did we suddenly pop into a seismic game? =P

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:09996d90a8] Nope, because a fleet in SYR is not two spaces away from a Russian province.

In that case, the fleet in SYR would be removed, because even at the least, the fleet in SYR is 4 spaces away from SEV.



On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 10:21 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:09996d90a8] yes - even if the unit in SYR was also a fleet.


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:18:57 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Exactly. Because both are two spaces away from Russias home SCs. Then you take the one that is not on an SC itself.

Go one step further. Same example but add a fleet in the Norwegian Sea. In that case, it would be the fleet that gets disbanded and Munich and Syria would both stay on the board.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:15 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:09996d90a8] so then if you had a unit in MUN and SYR - the unit in SYR would
then be disbanded?


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>

To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>

Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:00:40 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




None of those take precedence over each other - they are meant to be taken as a whole.

i.e.


The unit disbanded is the one that is furthest from a home center.
If more than one is equidistant from a home SC, then the unit removed is one not on a supply center.
If more than one are not on a supply center then you take fleets before armies.
Then you resort to the alphabet if there choices still have not resolved into one.


In this case there was only one unit that was two spaces away from a home SC. That was Munich.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:54 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:09996d90a8] Yeah, I was just looking at that. What the rules don't say is which takes priority,
furtherest from home, or on a supply center or not.

But I am curious - given the three editions that have come out since my 82 edition -
what do they say? Yes, I know the DC House Rules trump the real rules, but it
would be interesting to see what they say. Especially since Kevin's email implies they
may be different.



From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 10:47:59 PM


Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Good grief. How did I miss sending in that order. Sorry guys.

Packrat is right though - the default is usually the unit furthest from the home centers. (Not just any center.) But default removals are covered by the HRS - which are in this case the default DC house rules.


"On a Winter turn an NMR (NBR/NDR) would mean that if the player was building - the builds would be waived and if the player was disbanding, units would be disbanded under the following rules [list:09996d90a8] [*:09996d90a8]Units not in a supply center before units in a supply center [*:09996d90a8]Units further from home centers before units closer to home centers [*:09996d90a8]Fleets before armies if equidistant per the above [*:09996d90a8]Alphabetical"[/list:u:09996d90a8]

Both of my units that are not on a supply center are only one space from a home center. Munich is two. As such, Jackson made the correct disband.


Long story short, the lapse on my part was unforgiveable and the forced disband is my fault. I think Jackosn made the right call.


Trout






On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

[quote:09996d90a8] Which rules are you referencing?



On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:14 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:09996d90a8] I believe the rules say HOME supply center.

The units are removed furthest from home first - regardless of
whether it is a supply center or not, armies before fleets, and
alphabetically if equidistant.



From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:11:33 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905



Folks, I have a dispute about these adjudications.

The default by Russia seems to be incorrect adjudicated, according to the DiplomaticCorp House Rules.

The rules specifically state that the first unit to be removed is a unit that is not in a supply center. Clearly, MUN is a supply center.

Then, the next criteria states that the unit which is further from a home supply center is to be removed. Both FIN and BLA are one space away from a home supply center (even though STP is not owned by Russia, it is still a Home supply center).

The third criteria is a fleet before an army will be removed. BLA is a fleet. FIN is an army. Therefore, BLA should have been removed.

Thanks,
-kevin


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:09996d90a8] Austria:
Build A Trieste
Build A Vienna
Build A Budapest


England:
Defaults, removing F Yorkshire


France:
Build A Paris
Build A Marseilles
Build F Brest


Germany:
Remove A Bohemia


Italy:
Remove F Eastern Mediterranean
Remove A Ankara


Russia:
Defaults, removing A Munich




Next orders due Friday the 26th 23:00 GMT
If this does not work let me know as I know some may be on vacation.


Kai









[/quote:09996d90a8]



[/quote:09996d90a8]








[/quote:09996d90a8]








[/quote:09996d90a8]








[/quote:09996d90a8]



[/quote:09996d90a8]







[/quote:09996d90a8]







[/quote:09996d90a8]
dc 197 Winter 1905 (dc197) former.trout Dec 17, 10:34 pm
Right on. So we agree. =)

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:32 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:

nope - the 82 rules say "as computed by the shortest route"


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:29:20 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Number of spaces is counted regardless of unit type. Whether the unit is a fleet or an army is irrelevent. For the purpose of calculating distance from a home SC, the unit is either X number of spaces or it is not.

You guys are adding sub-text where there isn't any.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:27 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:786ef15e2b]No, I think he may be correct - SYR can NOT go to ARM.
If we are taking convoys into account then I think the intent
is that the route the unit must take is important as well.




From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:25:17 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




What happened to Armenia? Did we suddenly pop into a seismic game? =P

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:786ef15e2b]Nope, because a fleet in SYR is not two spaces away from a Russian province.

In that case, the fleet in SYR would be removed, because even at the least, the fleet in SYR is 4 spaces away from SEV.



On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 10:21 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:786ef15e2b] yes - even if the unit in SYR was also a fleet.


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:18:57 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Exactly. Because both are two spaces away from Russias home SCs. Then you take the one that is not on an SC itself.

Go one step further. Same example but add a fleet in the Norwegian Sea. In that case, it would be the fleet that gets disbanded and Munich and Syria would both stay on the board.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:15 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:786ef15e2b] so then if you had a unit in MUN and SYR - the unit in SYR would
then be disbanded?


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>

To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>

Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:00:40 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




None of those take precedence over each other - they are meant to be taken as a whole.

i.e.


The unit disbanded is the one that is furthest from a home center.
If more than one is equidistant from a home SC, then the unit removed is one not on a supply center.
If more than one are not on a supply center then you take fleets before armies.
Then you resort to the alphabet if there choices still have not resolved into one.


In this case there was only one unit that was two spaces away from a home SC. That was Munich.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:54 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:786ef15e2b] Yeah, I was just looking at that. What the rules don't say is which takes priority,
furtherest from home, or on a supply center or not.

But I am curious - given the three editions that have come out since my 82 edition -
what do they say? Yes, I know the DC House Rules trump the real rules, but it
would be interesting to see what they say. Especially since Kevin's email implies they
may be different.



From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 10:47:59 PM


Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Good grief. How did I miss sending in that order. Sorry guys.

Packrat is right though - the default is usually the unit furthest from the home centers. (Not just any center.) But default removals are covered by the HRS - which are in this case the default DC house rules.


"On a Winter turn an NMR (NBR/NDR) would mean that if the player was building - the builds would be waived and if the player was disbanding, units would be disbanded under the following rules [list:786ef15e2b] [*:786ef15e2b]Units not in a supply center before units in a supply center [*:786ef15e2b]Units further from home centers before units closer to home centers [*:786ef15e2b]Fleets before armies if equidistant per the above [*:786ef15e2b]Alphabetical"[/list:u:786ef15e2b]

Both of my units that are not on a supply center are only one space from a home center. Munich is two. As such, Jackson made the correct disband.


Long story short, the lapse on my part was unforgiveable and the forced disband is my fault. I think Jackosn made the right call.


Trout






On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

[quote:786ef15e2b] Which rules are you referencing?



On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:14 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:786ef15e2b] I believe the rules say HOME supply center.

The units are removed furthest from home first - regardless of
whether it is a supply center or not, armies before fleets, and
alphabetically if equidistant.



From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:11:33 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905



Folks, I have a dispute about these adjudications.

The default by Russia seems to be incorrect adjudicated, according to the DiplomaticCorp House Rules.

The rules specifically state that the first unit to be removed is a unit that is not in a supply center. Clearly, MUN is a supply center.

Then, the next criteria states that the unit which is further from a home supply center is to be removed. Both FIN and BLA are one space away from a home supply center (even though STP is not owned by Russia, it is still a Home supply center).

The third criteria is a fleet before an army will be removed. BLA is a fleet. FIN is an army. Therefore, BLA should have been removed.

Thanks,
-kevin


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:786ef15e2b] Austria:
Build A Trieste
Build A Vienna
Build A Budapest


England:
Defaults, removing F Yorkshire


France:
Build A Paris
Build A Marseilles
Build F Brest


Germany:
Remove A Bohemia


Italy:
Remove F Eastern Mediterranean
Remove A Ankara


Russia:
Defaults, removing A Munich




Next orders due Friday the 26th 23:00 GMT
If this does not work let me know as I know some may be on vacation.


Kai









[/quote:786ef15e2b]



[/quote:786ef15e2b]








[/quote:786ef15e2b]








[/quote:786ef15e2b]








[/quote:786ef15e2b]



[/quote:786ef15e2b]







[/quote:786ef15e2b]








[/quote:786ef15e2b]
dc 197 Winter 1905 (dc197) packrat Dec 17, 10:38 pm
A fleet in SYR cannot go through ARM. If it said shortest distance I would agree.

Oh, wait - these are DC rules - the hell with the game rules.


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com>
Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com; dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:33:22 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905

Right on. So we agree. =)

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:32 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:

nope - the 82 rules say "as computed by the shortest route"


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:29:20 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Number of spaces is counted regardless of unit type. Whether the unit is a fleet or an army is irrelevent. For the purpose of calculating distance from a home SC, the unit is either X number of spaces or it is not.

You guys are adding sub-text where there isn't any.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:27 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:e623184b4d]No, I think he may be correct - SYR can NOT go to ARM.
If we are taking convoys into account then I think the intent
is that the route the unit must take is important as well.




From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:25:17 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




What happened to Armenia? Did we suddenly pop into a seismic game? =P

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:e623184b4d]Nope, because a fleet in SYR is not two spaces away from a Russian province.

In that case, the fleet in SYR would be removed, because even at the least, the fleet in SYR is 4 spaces away from SEV.



On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 10:21 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:e623184b4d] yes - even if the unit in SYR was also a fleet.


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:18:57 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Exactly. Because both are two spaces away from Russias home SCs. Then you take the one that is not on an SC itself.

Go one step further. Same example but add a fleet in the Norwegian Sea. In that case, it would be the fleet that gets disbanded and Munich and Syria would both stay on the board.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:15 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:e623184b4d] so then if you had a unit in MUN and SYR - the unit in SYR would
then be disbanded?


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>

To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>

Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:00:40 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




None of those take precedence over each other - they are meant to be taken as a whole.

i.e.


The unit disbanded is the one that is furthest from a home center.
If more than one is equidistant from a home SC, then the unit removed is one not on a supply center.
If more than one are not on a supply center then you take fleets before armies.
Then you resort to the alphabet if there choices still have not resolved into one.


In this case there was only one unit that was two spaces away from a home SC. That was Munich.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:54 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:e623184b4d] Yeah, I was just looking at that. What the rules don't say is which takes priority,
furtherest from home, or on a supply center or not.

But I am curious - given the three editions that have come out since my 82 edition -
what do they say? Yes, I know the DC House Rules trump the real rules, but it
would be interesting to see what they say. Especially since Kevin's email implies they
may be different.



From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 10:47:59 PM


Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Good grief. How did I miss sending in that order. Sorry guys.

Packrat is right though - the default is usually the unit furthest from the home centers. (Not just any center.) But default removals are covered by the HRS - which are in this case the default DC house rules.


"On a Winter turn an NMR (NBR/NDR) would mean that if the player was building - the builds would be waived and if the player was disbanding, units would be disbanded under the following rules [list:e623184b4d] [*:e623184b4d]Units not in a supply center before units in a supply center [*:e623184b4d]Units further from home centers before units closer to home centers [*:e623184b4d]Fleets before armies if equidistant per the above [*:e623184b4d]Alphabetical"[/list:u:e623184b4d]

Both of my units that are not on a supply center are only one space from a home center. Munich is two. As such, Jackson made the correct disband.


Long story short, the lapse on my part was unforgiveable and the forced disband is my fault. I think Jackosn made the right call.


Trout






On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

[quote:e623184b4d] Which rules are you referencing?



On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:14 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:e623184b4d] I believe the rules say HOME supply center.

The units are removed furthest from home first - regardless of
whether it is a supply center or not, armies before fleets, and
alphabetically if equidistant.



From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:11:33 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905



Folks, I have a dispute about these adjudications.

The default by Russia seems to be incorrect adjudicated, according to the DiplomaticCorp House Rules.

The rules specifically state that the first unit to be removed is a unit that is not in a supply center. Clearly, MUN is a supply center.

Then, the next criteria states that the unit which is further from a home supply center is to be removed. Both FIN and BLA are one space away from a home supply center (even though STP is not owned by Russia, it is still a Home supply center).

The third criteria is a fleet before an army will be removed. BLA is a fleet. FIN is an army. Therefore, BLA should have been removed.

Thanks,
-kevin


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:e623184b4d] Austria:
Build A Trieste
Build A Vienna
Build A Budapest


England:
Defaults, removing F Yorkshire


France:
Build A Paris
Build A Marseilles
Build F Brest


Germany:
Remove A Bohemia


Italy:
Remove F Eastern Mediterranean
Remove A Ankara


Russia:
Defaults, removing A Munich




Next orders due Friday the 26th 23:00 GMT
If this does not work let me know as I know some may be on vacation.


Kai









[/quote:e623184b4d]



[/quote:e623184b4d]








[/quote:e623184b4d]








[/quote:e623184b4d]








[/quote:e623184b4d]



[/quote:e623184b4d]







[/quote:e623184b4d]








[/quote:e623184b4d]
dc 197 Winter 1905 (dc197) former.trout Dec 17, 10:46 pm
Dude - I'm pretty sure that I've seen you auto-disband using the shortest route approach. Why are we debating this? =)

I've never seen anyone calculate an auto-disband based on the route that a unit would have to take to get from point A to point B. Its always been shortest path to home SCs.


In any case, on page 19 of the latest Avalon Hill version of the rules it says:
"If a country in civil disorder has to remove units, the units furthest from the country are removed first. If units are equally distant than remove fleets before armies and then in alphabetical order by the provinces in which they are located."


http://www.wizards.com/avalonhill/rules/diplomacy_rulebook.pdf



There's nothing there about the "route" that a unit would have to take. Simple count of spaces to see which units are furthest away...


T.


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:37 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:

A fleet in SYR cannot go through ARM. If it said shortest distance I would agree.

Oh, wait - these are DC rules - the hell with the game rules.


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:33:22 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Right on. So we agree. =)

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:32 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:1fbac6c046] nope - the 82 rules say "as computed by the shortest route"


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:29:20 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Number of spaces is counted regardless of unit type. Whether the unit is a fleet or an army is irrelevent. For the purpose of calculating distance from a home SC, the unit is either X number of spaces or it is not.

You guys are adding sub-text where there isn't any.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:27 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:1fbac6c046]No, I think he may be correct - SYR can NOT go to ARM.
If we are taking convoys into account then I think the intent
is that the route the unit must take is important as well.




From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:25:17 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




What happened to Armenia? Did we suddenly pop into a seismic game? =P

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:1fbac6c046]Nope, because a fleet in SYR is not two spaces away from a Russian province.

In that case, the fleet in SYR would be removed, because even at the least, the fleet in SYR is 4 spaces away from SEV.



On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 10:21 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:1fbac6c046] yes - even if the unit in SYR was also a fleet.


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:18:57 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Exactly. Because both are two spaces away from Russias home SCs. Then you take the one that is not on an SC itself.

Go one step further. Same example but add a fleet in the Norwegian Sea. In that case, it would be the fleet that gets disbanded and Munich and Syria would both stay on the board.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:15 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:1fbac6c046] so then if you had a unit in MUN and SYR - the unit in SYR would
then be disbanded?


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>

To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>

Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:00:40 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




None of those take precedence over each other - they are meant to be taken as a whole.

i.e.


The unit disbanded is the one that is furthest from a home center.
If more than one is equidistant from a home SC, then the unit removed is one not on a supply center.
If more than one are not on a supply center then you take fleets before armies.
Then you resort to the alphabet if there choices still have not resolved into one.


In this case there was only one unit that was two spaces away from a home SC. That was Munich.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:54 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:1fbac6c046] Yeah, I was just looking at that. What the rules don't say is which takes priority,
furtherest from home, or on a supply center or not.

But I am curious - given the three editions that have come out since my 82 edition -
what do they say? Yes, I know the DC House Rules trump the real rules, but it
would be interesting to see what they say. Especially since Kevin's email implies they
may be different.



From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 10:47:59 PM


Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Good grief. How did I miss sending in that order. Sorry guys.

Packrat is right though - the default is usually the unit furthest from the home centers. (Not just any center.) But default removals are covered by the HRS - which are in this case the default DC house rules.


"On a Winter turn an NMR (NBR/NDR) would mean that if the player was building - the builds would be waived and if the player was disbanding, units would be disbanded under the following rules [list:1fbac6c046] [*:1fbac6c046]Units not in a supply center before units in a supply center [*:1fbac6c046]Units further from home centers before units closer to home centers [*:1fbac6c046]Fleets before armies if equidistant per the above [*:1fbac6c046]Alphabetical"[/list:u:1fbac6c046]

Both of my units that are not on a supply center are only one space from a home center. Munich is two. As such, Jackson made the correct disband.


Long story short, the lapse on my part was unforgiveable and the forced disband is my fault. I think Jackosn made the right call.


Trout






On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

[quote:1fbac6c046] Which rules are you referencing?



On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:14 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:1fbac6c046] I believe the rules say HOME supply center.

The units are removed furthest from home first - regardless of
whether it is a supply center or not, armies before fleets, and
alphabetically if equidistant.



From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:11:33 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905



Folks, I have a dispute about these adjudications.

The default by Russia seems to be incorrect adjudicated, according to the DiplomaticCorp House Rules.

The rules specifically state that the first unit to be removed is a unit that is not in a supply center. Clearly, MUN is a supply center.

Then, the next criteria states that the unit which is further from a home supply center is to be removed. Both FIN and BLA are one space away from a home supply center (even though STP is not owned by Russia, it is still a Home supply center).

The third criteria is a fleet before an army will be removed. BLA is a fleet. FIN is an army. Therefore, BLA should have been removed.

Thanks,
-kevin


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:1fbac6c046] Austria:
Build A Trieste
Build A Vienna
Build A Budapest


England:
Defaults, removing F Yorkshire


France:
Build A Paris
Build A Marseilles
Build F Brest


Germany:
Remove A Bohemia


Italy:
Remove F Eastern Mediterranean
Remove A Ankara


Russia:
Defaults, removing A Munich




Next orders due Friday the 26th 23:00 GMT
If this does not work let me know as I know some may be on vacation.


Kai









[/quote:1fbac6c046]



[/quote:1fbac6c046]








[/quote:1fbac6c046]








[/quote:1fbac6c046]








[/quote:1fbac6c046]



[/quote:1fbac6c046]







[/quote:1fbac6c046]








[/quote:1fbac6c046]







[/quote:1fbac6c046]
dc 197 Winter 1905 (dc197) klynch427 Dec 17, 10:50 pm
Wow - lots of emails in my inbox tonight. 2 comments.

1) I actually requested a Fleet in Trieste. I've re-sent that email to the GM, not sure how I ended up with an Army in TRI instead.

2) I'm not sure I quite understand the "take the rules as a whole" argument. Don't you use alphabetically only as the last resort? And don't you use fleet over army only as the next-to-last resort? It would make more sense to me to keep a unit in a supply center, so I'd think that comes first. In which case, BLA should be disbanded and not MUN. I don't really care too much how this ends up, but that is the outcome that makes the most sense to me.

Austrian Kevin

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 20:37:22 -0800
From: brn2dip(at)yahoo.com
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905
To: former.trout(at)gmail.com
CC: kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com; jrobfoster(at)gmail.com; stevelytton(at)hotmail.com; vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr; josepayne(at)gmail.com; rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com; dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com

.ExternalClass DIV {;} A fleet in SYR cannot go through ARM. If it said shortest distance I would agree.

Oh, wait - these are DC rules - the hell with the game rules.


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com>
Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com; dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:33:22 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905

Right on. So we agree. =)

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:32 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:

nope - the 82 rules say "as computed by the shortest route"


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:29:20 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Number of spaces is counted regardless of unit type. Whether the unit is a fleet or an army is irrelevent. For the purpose of calculating distance from a home SC, the unit is either X number of spaces or it is not.

You guys are adding sub-text where there isn't any.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:27 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:792e6b5d28]No, I think he may be correct - SYR can NOT go to ARM.
If we are taking convoys into account then I think the intent
is that the route the unit must take is important as well.




From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:25:17 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




What happened to Armenia? Did we suddenly pop into a seismic game? =P

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:792e6b5d28]Nope, because a fleet in SYR is not two spaces away from a Russian province.

In that case, the fleet in SYR would be removed, because even at the least, the fleet in SYR is 4 spaces away from SEV.



On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 10:21 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:792e6b5d28] yes - even if the unit in SYR was also a fleet.


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:18:57 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Exactly. Because both are two spaces away from Russias home SCs. Then you take the one that is not on an SC itself.

Go one step further. Same example but add a fleet in the Norwegian Sea. In that case, it would be the fleet that gets disbanded and Munich and Syria would both stay on the board.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:15 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:792e6b5d28] so then if you had a unit in MUN and SYR - the unit in SYR would
then be disbanded?


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>

To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>

Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:00:40 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




None of those take precedence over each other - they are meant to be taken as a whole.

i.e.


The unit disbanded is the one that is furthest from a home center.
If more than one is equidistant from a home SC, then the unit removed is one not on a supply center.
If more than one are not on a supply center then you take fleets before armies.
Then you resort to the alphabet if there choices still have not resolved into one.


In this case there was only one unit that was two spaces away from a home SC. That was Munich.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:54 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:792e6b5d28] Yeah, I was just looking at that. What the rules don't say is which takes priority,
furtherest from home, or on a supply center or not.

But I am curious - given the three editions that have come out since my 82 edition -
what do they say? Yes, I know the DC House Rules trump the real rules, but it
would be interesting to see what they say. Especially since Kevin's email implies they
may be different.



From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 10:47:59 PM


Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Good grief. How did I miss sending in that order. Sorry guys.

Packrat is right though - the default is usually the unit furthest from the home centers. (Not just any center.) But default removals are covered by the HRS - which are in this case the default DC house rules.


"On a Winter turn an NMR (NBR/NDR) would mean that if the player was building - the builds would be waived and if the player was disbanding, units would be disbanded under the following rules [list:792e6b5d28] [*:792e6b5d28]Units not in a supply center before units in a supply center [*:792e6b5d28]Units further from home centers before units closer to home centers [*:792e6b5d28]Fleets before armies if equidistant per the above [*:792e6b5d28]Alphabetical"[/list:u:792e6b5d28]

Both of my units that are not on a supply center are only one space from a home center. Munich is two. As such, Jackson made the correct disband.


Long story short, the lapse on my part was unforgiveable and the forced disband is my fault. I think Jackosn made the right call.


Trout






On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

[quote:792e6b5d28] Which rules are you referencing?



On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:14 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:792e6b5d28] I believe the rules say HOME supply center.

The units are removed furthest from home first - regardless of
whether it is a supply center or not, armies before fleets, and
alphabetically if equidistant.



From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:11:33 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905



Folks, I have a dispute about these adjudications.

The default by Russia seems to be incorrect adjudicated, according to the DiplomaticCorp House Rules.

The rules specifically state that the first unit to be removed is a unit that is not in a supply center. Clearly, MUN is a supply center.

Then, the next criteria states that the unit which is further from a home supply center is to be removed. Both FIN and BLA are one space away from a home supply center (even though STP is not owned by Russia, it is still a Home supply center).

The third criteria is a fleet before an army will be removed. BLA is a fleet. FIN is an army. Therefore, BLA should have been removed.

Thanks,
-kevin


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:792e6b5d28] Austria:
Build A Trieste
Build A Vienna
Build A Budapest


England:
Defaults, removing F Yorkshire


France:
Build A Paris
Build A Marseilles
Build F Brest


Germany:
Remove A Bohemia


Italy:
Remove F Eastern Mediterranean
Remove A Ankara


Russia:
Defaults, removing A Munich




Next orders due Friday the 26th 23:00 GMT
If this does not work let me know as I know some may be on vacation.


Kai









[/quote:792e6b5d28]



[/quote:792e6b5d28]








[/quote:792e6b5d28]








[/quote:792e6b5d28]








[/quote:792e6b5d28]



[/quote:792e6b5d28]







[/quote:792e6b5d28]








[/quote:792e6b5d28]
dc 197 Winter 1905 (dc197) packrat Dec 17, 10:55 pm
Actually, I think I have only actually run into this scenario a couple of times and then
I the route wasn't an issue.

Also, given the latest rulebook reference I would have to agree with you 100% on the
distance being independent of the route.


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com>
Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com; dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:46:03 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905

Dude - I'm pretty sure that I've seen you auto-disband using the shortest route approach. Why are we debating this? =)

I've never seen anyone calculate an auto-disband based on the route that a unit would have to take to get from point A to point B. Its always been shortest path to home SCs.


In any case, on page 19 of the latest Avalon Hill version of the rules it says:
"If a country in civil disorder has to remove units, the units furthest from the country are removed first. If units are equally distant than remove fleets before armies and then in alphabetical order by the provinces in which they are located."


http://www.wizards.com/avalonhill/rules/diplomacy_rulebook.pdf



There's nothing there about the "route" that a unit would have to take. Simple count of spaces to see which units are furthest away...


T.
dc 197 Winter 1905 (dc197) former.trout Dec 17, 11:02 pm
Guys,

Having taken part in creating the default HRs I can assure everyone that it was never the intention to create a set of rules that conflicted with the Standard Diplomacy rules.


The quote I just pasted from the rules says essentially the same thing as our house rules do - only our HRs throw in the SC condition as well. Instead of a bullet-point list, the standard rulebook just wrote it into a paragraph.


The bullet-point list is only to eliminate options to reduce the auto-disband to a single choice. All four conditions should be viewed as a set and taken together.


The final word is up to Jackson, of course. But the rule-book says that he made the right call, the HRs say that he made the right call and as the player whose unit it is I agree with it as well.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:49 PM, Kevin Lynch <klynch427(at)hotmail.com ([email]klynch427(at)hotmail.com[/email])> wrote:

Wow - lots of emails in my inbox tonight. 2 comments.

1) I actually requested a Fleet in Trieste. I've re-sent that email to the GM, not sure how I ended up with an Army in TRI instead.

2) I'm not sure I quite understand the "take the rules as a whole" argument. Don't you use alphabetically only as the last resort? And don't you use fleet over army only as the next-to-last resort? It would make more sense to me to keep a unit in a supply center, so I'd think that comes first. In which case, BLA should be disbanded and not MUN. I don't really care too much how this ends up, but that is the outcome that makes the most sense to me.

Austrian Kevin

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 20:37:22 -0800
From: brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905

To: former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])
CC: kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email]); jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email]); stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email]); vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email]); josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email]); rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email]); KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])


A fleet in SYR cannot go through ARM. If it said shortest distance I would agree.

Oh, wait - these are DC rules - the hell with the game rules.


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:33:22 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905

Right on. So we agree. =)

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:32 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:9783dfab77] nope - the 82 rules say "as computed by the shortest route"


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:29:20 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Number of spaces is counted regardless of unit type. Whether the unit is a fleet or an army is irrelevent. For the purpose of calculating distance from a home SC, the unit is either X number of spaces or it is not.

You guys are adding sub-text where there isn't any.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:27 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:9783dfab77]No, I think he may be correct - SYR can NOT go to ARM.
If we are taking convoys into account then I think the intent
is that the route the unit must take is important as well.




From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:25:17 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




What happened to Armenia? Did we suddenly pop into a seismic game? =P

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:9783dfab77]Nope, because a fleet in SYR is not two spaces away from a Russian province.

In that case, the fleet in SYR would be removed, because even at the least, the fleet in SYR is 4 spaces away from SEV.



On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 10:21 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:9783dfab77] yes - even if the unit in SYR was also a fleet.


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:18:57 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Exactly. Because both are two spaces away from Russias home SCs. Then you take the one that is not on an SC itself.

Go one step further. Same example but add a fleet in the Norwegian Sea. In that case, it would be the fleet that gets disbanded and Munich and Syria would both stay on the board.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:15 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:9783dfab77] so then if you had a unit in MUN and SYR - the unit in SYR would
then be disbanded?


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>

To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>

Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:00:40 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




None of those take precedence over each other - they are meant to be taken as a whole.

i.e.


The unit disbanded is the one that is furthest from a home center.
If more than one is equidistant from a home SC, then the unit removed is one not on a supply center.
If more than one are not on a supply center then you take fleets before armies.
Then you resort to the alphabet if there choices still have not resolved into one.


In this case there was only one unit that was two spaces away from a home SC. That was Munich.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:54 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:9783dfab77] Yeah, I was just looking at that. What the rules don't say is which takes priority,
furtherest from home, or on a supply center or not.

But I am curious - given the three editions that have come out since my 82 edition -
what do they say? Yes, I know the DC House Rules trump the real rules, but it
would be interesting to see what they say. Especially since Kevin's email implies they
may be different.



From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 10:47:59 PM


Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Good grief. How did I miss sending in that order. Sorry guys.

Packrat is right though - the default is usually the unit furthest from the home centers. (Not just any center.) But default removals are covered by the HRS - which are in this case the default DC house rules.


"On a Winter turn an NMR (NBR/NDR) would mean that if the player was building - the builds would be waived and if the player was disbanding, units would be disbanded under the following rules [list:9783dfab77] [*:9783dfab77]Units not in a supply center before units in a supply center [*:9783dfab77]Units further from home centers before units closer to home centers [*:9783dfab77]Fleets before armies if equidistant per the above [*:9783dfab77]Alphabetical"[/list:u:9783dfab77]

Both of my units that are not on a supply center are only one space from a home center. Munich is two. As such, Jackson made the correct disband.


Long story short, the lapse on my part was unforgiveable and the forced disband is my fault. I think Jackosn made the right call.


Trout






On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

[quote:9783dfab77] Which rules are you referencing?



On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:14 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:9783dfab77] I believe the rules say HOME supply center.

The units are removed furthest from home first - regardless of
whether it is a supply center or not, armies before fleets, and
alphabetically if equidistant.



From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:11:33 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905



Folks, I have a dispute about these adjudications.

The default by Russia seems to be incorrect adjudicated, according to the DiplomaticCorp House Rules.

The rules specifically state that the first unit to be removed is a unit that is not in a supply center. Clearly, MUN is a supply center.

Then, the next criteria states that the unit which is further from a home supply center is to be removed. Both FIN and BLA are one space away from a home supply center (even though STP is not owned by Russia, it is still a Home supply center).

The third criteria is a fleet before an army will be removed. BLA is a fleet. FIN is an army. Therefore, BLA should have been removed.

Thanks,
-kevin


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:9783dfab77] Austria:
Build A Trieste
Build A Vienna
Build A Budapest


England:
Defaults, removing F Yorkshire


France:
Build A Paris
Build A Marseilles
Build F Brest


Germany:
Remove A Bohemia


Italy:
Remove F Eastern Mediterranean
Remove A Ankara


Russia:
Defaults, removing A Munich




Next orders due Friday the 26th 23:00 GMT
If this does not work let me know as I know some may be on vacation.


Kai









[/quote:9783dfab77]



[/quote:9783dfab77]








[/quote:9783dfab77]








[/quote:9783dfab77]








[/quote:9783dfab77]



[/quote:9783dfab77]







[/quote:9783dfab77]








[/quote:9783dfab77]







[/quote:9783dfab77]
dc 197 Winter 1905 (dc197) packrat Dec 17, 11:07 pm
FWIW - I agree. On all points.

You might also want to consider something at the top of the houserules
stating what edition was used in drafting the rules. The URL you had
in the other email would be good to put up there as well.


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com>
To: Kevin Lynch <klynch427(at)hotmail.com>
Cc: Germany Diplomacy <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com>; Turkey DC 197 <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>; Vincent France Diplomacy <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr>; Joe/Italy Diplomacy <josepayne(at)gmail.com>; Trevor/England Diplomacy <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com>; dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:02:17 AM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905

Guys,

Having taken part in creating the default HRs I can assure everyone that it was never the intention to create a set of rules that conflicted with the Standard Diplomacy rules.


The quote I just pasted from the rules says essentially the same thing as our house rules do - only our HRs throw in the SC condition as well. Instead of a bullet-point list, the standard rulebook just wrote it into a paragraph.


The bullet-point list is only to eliminate options to reduce the auto-disband to a single choice. All four conditions should be viewed as a set and taken together.


The final word is up to Jackson, of course. But the rule-book says that he made the right call, the HRs say that he made the right call and as the player whose unit it is I agree with it as well.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:49 PM, Kevin Lynch <klynch427(at)hotmail.com ([email]klynch427(at)hotmail.com[/email])> wrote:

Wow - lots of emails in my inbox tonight. 2 comments.

1) I actually requested a Fleet in Trieste. I've re-sent that email to the GM, not sure how I ended up with an Army in TRI instead.

2) I'm not sure I quite understand the "take the rules as a whole" argument. Don't you use alphabetically only as the last resort? And don't you use fleet over army only as the next-to-last resort? It would make more sense to me to keep a unit in a supply center, so I'd think that comes first. In which case, BLA should be disbanded and not MUN. I don't really care too much how this ends up, but that is the outcome that makes the most sense to me.

Austrian Kevin

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 20:37:22 -0800
From: brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905

To: former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])
CC: kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email]); jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email]); stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email]); vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email]); josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email]); rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email]); KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])


A fleet in SYR cannot go through ARM. If it said shortest distance I would agree.

Oh, wait - these are DC rules - the hell with the game rules.


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:33:22 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905

Right on. So we agree. =)

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:32 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:f2575bc50e] nope - the 82 rules say "as computed by the shortest route"


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:29:20 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Number of spaces is counted regardless of unit type. Whether the unit is a fleet or an army is irrelevent. For the purpose of calculating distance from a home SC, the unit is either X number of spaces or it is not.

You guys are adding sub-text where there isn't any.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:27 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:f2575bc50e]No, I think he may be correct - SYR can NOT go to ARM.
If we are taking convoys into account then I think the intent
is that the route the unit must take is important as well.




From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:25:17 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




What happened to Armenia? Did we suddenly pop into a seismic game? =P

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:f2575bc50e]Nope, because a fleet in SYR is not two spaces away from a Russian province.

In that case, the fleet in SYR would be removed, because even at the least, the fleet in SYR is 4 spaces away from SEV.



On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 10:21 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:f2575bc50e] yes - even if the unit in SYR was also a fleet.


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:18:57 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Exactly. Because both are two spaces away from Russias home SCs. Then you take the one that is not on an SC itself.

Go one step further. Same example but add a fleet in the Norwegian Sea. In that case, it would be the fleet that gets disbanded and Munich and Syria would both stay on the board.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:15 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:f2575bc50e] so then if you had a unit in MUN and SYR - the unit in SYR would
then be disbanded?


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>

To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>

Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:00:40 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




None of those take precedence over each other - they are meant to be taken as a whole.

i.e.


The unit disbanded is the one that is furthest from a home center.
If more than one is equidistant from a home SC, then the unit removed is one not on a supply center.
If more than one are not on a supply center then you take fleets before armies.
Then you resort to the alphabet if there choices still have not resolved into one.


In this case there was only one unit that was two spaces away from a home SC. That was Munich.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:54 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:f2575bc50e] Yeah, I was just looking at that. What the rules don't say is which takes priority,
furtherest from home, or on a supply center or not.

But I am curious - given the three editions that have come out since my 82 edition -
what do they say? Yes, I know the DC House Rules trump the real rules, but it
would be interesting to see what they say. Especially since Kevin's email implies they
may be different.



From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 10:47:59 PM


Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Good grief. How did I miss sending in that order. Sorry guys.

Packrat is right though - the default is usually the unit furthest from the home centers. (Not just any center.) But default removals are covered by the HRS - which are in this case the default DC house rules.


"On a Winter turn an NMR (NBR/NDR) would mean that if the player was building - the builds would be waived and if the player was disbanding, units would be disbanded under the following rules [list:f2575bc50e] [*:f2575bc50e]Units not in a supply center before units in a supply center [*:f2575bc50e]Units further from home centers before units closer to home centers [*:f2575bc50e]Fleets before armies if equidistant per the above [*:f2575bc50e]Alphabetical"[/list:u:f2575bc50e]

Both of my units that are not on a supply center are only one space from a home center. Munich is two. As such, Jackson made the correct disband.


Long story short, the lapse on my part was unforgiveable and the forced disband is my fault. I think Jackosn made the right call.


Trout






On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

[quote:f2575bc50e] Which rules are you referencing?



On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:14 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:f2575bc50e] I believe the rules say HOME supply center.

The units are removed furthest from home first - regardless of
whether it is a supply center or not, armies before fleets, and
alphabetically if equidistant.



From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:11:33 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905



Folks, I have a dispute about these adjudications.

The default by Russia seems to be incorrect adjudicated, according to the DiplomaticCorp House Rules.

The rules specifically state that the first unit to be removed is a unit that is not in a supply center. Clearly, MUN is a supply center.

Then, the next criteria states that the unit which is further from a home supply center is to be removed. Both FIN and BLA are one space away from a home supply center (even though STP is not owned by Russia, it is still a Home supply center).

The third criteria is a fleet before an army will be removed. BLA is a fleet. FIN is an army. Therefore, BLA should have been removed.

Thanks,
-kevin


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:f2575bc50e] Austria:
Build A Trieste
Build A Vienna
Build A Budapest


England:
Defaults, removing F Yorkshire


France:
Build A Paris
Build A Marseilles
Build F Brest


Germany:
Remove A Bohemia


Italy:
Remove F Eastern Mediterranean
Remove A Ankara


Russia:
Defaults, removing A Munich




Next orders due Friday the 26th 23:00 GMT
If this does not work let me know as I know some may be on vacation.


Kai









[/quote:f2575bc50e]



[/quote:f2575bc50e]








[/quote:f2575bc50e]








[/quote:f2575bc50e]








[/quote:f2575bc50e]



[/quote:f2575bc50e]







[/quote:f2575bc50e]








[/quote:f2575bc50e]







[/quote:f2575bc50e]
dc 197 Winter 1905 (dc197) Kai Dec 18, 02:12 pm
Hey guys,

The ruling stands as is. I interpreted it as farthest away from the home centers, as did RealPolitik. There was a mess up on my part however, Austria is right and it should be a Fleet in Tri. I read it horribly wrong and have no idea why. >_< Correct map is attached. And it seems everyone is ok with the deadline as is?


Kai

On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 12:07 AM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:

FWIW - I agree. On all points.

You might also want to consider something at the top of the houserules
stating what edition was used in drafting the rules. The URL you had
in the other email would be good to put up there as well.


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>

To: Kevin Lynch <klynch427(at)hotmail.com ([email]klynch427(at)hotmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Germany Diplomacy <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Turkey DC 197 <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent France Diplomacy <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; Joe/Italy Diplomacy <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor/England Diplomacy <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:02:17 AM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Guys,

Having taken part in creating the default HRs I can assure everyone that it was never the intention to create a set of rules that conflicted with the Standard Diplomacy rules.


The quote I just pasted from the rules says essentially the same thing as our house rules do - only our HRs throw in the SC condition as well. Instead of a bullet-point list, the standard rulebook just wrote it into a paragraph.


The bullet-point list is only to eliminate options to reduce the auto-disband to a single choice. All four conditions should be viewed as a set and taken together.


The final word is up to Jackson, of course. But the rule-book says that he made the right call, the HRs say that he made the right call and as the player whose unit it is I agree with it as well.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:49 PM, Kevin Lynch <klynch427(at)hotmail.com ([email]klynch427(at)hotmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:f6abaa8082] Wow - lots of emails in my inbox tonight. 2 comments.

1) I actually requested a Fleet in Trieste. I've re-sent that email to the GM, not sure how I ended up with an Army in TRI instead.

2) I'm not sure I quite understand the "take the rules as a whole" argument. Don't you use alphabetically only as the last resort? And don't you use fleet over army only as the next-to-last resort? It would make more sense to me to keep a unit in a supply center, so I'd think that comes first. In which case, BLA should be disbanded and not MUN. I don't really care too much how this ends up, but that is the outcome that makes the most sense to me.

Austrian Kevin

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 20:37:22 -0800
From: brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905

To: former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])
CC: kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email]); jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email]); stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email]); vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email]); josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email]); rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email]); KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])


A fleet in SYR cannot go through ARM. If it said shortest distance I would agree.

Oh, wait - these are DC rules - the hell with the game rules.


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:33:22 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905

Right on. So we agree. =)

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:32 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:f6abaa8082] nope - the 82 rules say "as computed by the shortest route"


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:29:20 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Number of spaces is counted regardless of unit type. Whether the unit is a fleet or an army is irrelevent. For the purpose of calculating distance from a home SC, the unit is either X number of spaces or it is not.

You guys are adding sub-text where there isn't any.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:27 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:f6abaa8082]No, I think he may be correct - SYR can NOT go to ARM.
If we are taking convoys into account then I think the intent
is that the route the unit must take is important as well.




From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:25:17 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




What happened to Armenia? Did we suddenly pop into a seismic game? =P

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:f6abaa8082]Nope, because a fleet in SYR is not two spaces away from a Russian province.

In that case, the fleet in SYR would be removed, because even at the least, the fleet in SYR is 4 spaces away from SEV.



On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 10:21 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:f6abaa8082] yes - even if the unit in SYR was also a fleet.


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:18:57 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Exactly. Because both are two spaces away from Russias home SCs. Then you take the one that is not on an SC itself.

Go one step further. Same example but add a fleet in the Norwegian Sea. In that case, it would be the fleet that gets disbanded and Munich and Syria would both stay on the board.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:15 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:f6abaa8082] so then if you had a unit in MUN and SYR - the unit in SYR would
then be disbanded?


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>

To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>

Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:00:40 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




None of those take precedence over each other - they are meant to be taken as a whole.

i.e.


The unit disbanded is the one that is furthest from a home center.
If more than one is equidistant from a home SC, then the unit removed is one not on a supply center.
If more than one are not on a supply center then you take fleets before armies.
Then you resort to the alphabet if there choices still have not resolved into one.


In this case there was only one unit that was two spaces away from a home SC. That was Munich.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:54 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:f6abaa8082] Yeah, I was just looking at that. What the rules don't say is which takes priority,
furtherest from home, or on a supply center or not.

But I am curious - given the three editions that have come out since my 82 edition -
what do they say? Yes, I know the DC House Rules trump the real rules, but it
would be interesting to see what they say. Especially since Kevin's email implies they
may be different.



From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 10:47:59 PM


Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Good grief. How did I miss sending in that order. Sorry guys.

Packrat is right though - the default is usually the unit furthest from the home centers. (Not just any center.) But default removals are covered by the HRS - which are in this case the default DC house rules.


"On a Winter turn an NMR (NBR/NDR) would mean that if the player was building - the builds would be waived and if the player was disbanding, units would be disbanded under the following rules [list:f6abaa8082] [*:f6abaa8082]Units not in a supply center before units in a supply center [*:f6abaa8082]Units further from home centers before units closer to home centers [*:f6abaa8082]Fleets before armies if equidistant per the above [*:f6abaa8082]Alphabetical"[/list:u:f6abaa8082]

Both of my units that are not on a supply center are only one space from a home center. Munich is two. As such, Jackson made the correct disband.


Long story short, the lapse on my part was unforgiveable and the forced disband is my fault. I think Jackosn made the right call.


Trout






On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

[quote:f6abaa8082] Which rules are you referencing?



On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:14 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:f6abaa8082] I believe the rules say HOME supply center.

The units are removed furthest from home first - regardless of
whether it is a supply center or not, armies before fleets, and
alphabetically if equidistant.



From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:11:33 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905



Folks, I have a dispute about these adjudications.

The default by Russia seems to be incorrect adjudicated, according to the DiplomaticCorp House Rules.

The rules specifically state that the first unit to be removed is a unit that is not in a supply center. Clearly, MUN is a supply center.

Then, the next criteria states that the unit which is further from a home supply center is to be removed. Both FIN and BLA are one space away from a home supply center (even though STP is not owned by Russia, it is still a Home supply center).

The third criteria is a fleet before an army will be removed. BLA is a fleet. FIN is an army. Therefore, BLA should have been removed.

Thanks,
-kevin


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:f6abaa8082] Austria:
Build A Trieste
Build A Vienna
Build A Budapest


England:
Defaults, removing F Yorkshire


France:
Build A Paris
Build A Marseilles
Build F Brest


Germany:
Remove A Bohemia


Italy:
Remove F Eastern Mediterranean
Remove A Ankara


Russia:
Defaults, removing A Munich




Next orders due Friday the 26th 23:00 GMT
If this does not work let me know as I know some may be on vacation.


Kai









[/quote:f6abaa8082]



[/quote:f6abaa8082]








[/quote:f6abaa8082]








[/quote:f6abaa8082]








[/quote:f6abaa8082]



[/quote:f6abaa8082]







[/quote:f6abaa8082]








[/quote:f6abaa8082]







[/quote:f6abaa8082]








[/quote:f6abaa8082]
dc 197 Winter 1905 (dc197) klynch427 Dec 18, 02:25 pm
Thanks Kai, I appreciate the clarification on my fleet in TRI. The map you attached still seems to show an army in TRI though.

I'm ok with the deadline though it does seem a long way off. I at least don't think I'm needing as long for diplomacy, so I wouldn't mind if the deadlines came a bit quicker.

Kevin


Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 15:12:14 -0500
From: jrobfoster(at)gmail.com
To: brn2dip(at)yahoo.com
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905
CC: former.trout(at)gmail.com; klynch427(at)hotmail.com; kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com; stevelytton(at)hotmail.com; vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr; josepayne(at)gmail.com; rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com; dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com

Hey guys,


The ruling stands as is. I interpreted it as farthest away from the home centers, as did RealPolitik. There was a mess up on my part however, Austria is right and it should be a Fleet in Tri. I read it horribly wrong and have no idea why. >_< Correct map is attached. And it seems everyone is ok with the deadline as is?


Kai

On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 12:07 AM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:

FWIW - I agree. On all points.

You might also want to consider something at the top of the houserules
stating what edition was used in drafting the rules. The URL you had
in the other email would be good to put up there as well.


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>

To: Kevin Lynch <klynch427(at)hotmail.com ([email]klynch427(at)hotmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Germany Diplomacy <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Turkey DC 197 <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent France Diplomacy <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; Joe/Italy Diplomacy <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor/England Diplomacy <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:02:17 AM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Guys,

Having taken part in creating the default HRs I can assure everyone that it was never the intention to create a set of rules that conflicted with the Standard Diplomacy rules.


The quote I just pasted from the rules says essentially the same thing as our house rules do - only our HRs throw in the SC condition as well. Instead of a bullet-point list, the standard rulebook just wrote it into a paragraph.


The bullet-point list is only to eliminate options to reduce the auto-disband to a single choice. All four conditions should be viewed as a set and taken together.


The final word is up to Jackson, of course. But the rule-book says that he made the right call, the HRs say that he made the right call and as the player whose unit it is I agree with it as well.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:49 PM, Kevin Lynch <klynch427(at)hotmail.com ([email]klynch427(at)hotmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:22046814f2] Wow - lots of emails in my inbox tonight. 2 comments.

1) I actually requested a Fleet in Trieste. I've re-sent that email to the GM, not sure how I ended up with an Army in TRI instead.

2) I'm not sure I quite understand the "take the rules as a whole" argument. Don't you use alphabetically only as the last resort? And don't you use fleet over army only as the next-to-last resort? It would make more sense to me to keep a unit in a supply center, so I'd think that comes first. In which case, BLA should be disbanded and not MUN. I don't really care too much how this ends up, but that is the outcome that makes the most sense to me.

Austrian Kevin

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 20:37:22 -0800
From: brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905

To: former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])
CC: kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email]); jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email]); stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email]); vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email]); josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email]); rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email]); KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])


A fleet in SYR cannot go through ARM. If it said shortest distance I would agree.

Oh, wait - these are DC rules - the hell with the game rules.


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:33:22 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905

Right on. So we agree. =)

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:32 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:22046814f2] nope - the 82 rules say "as computed by the shortest route"


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:29:20 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Number of spaces is counted regardless of unit type. Whether the unit is a fleet or an army is irrelevent. For the purpose of calculating distance from a home SC, the unit is either X number of spaces or it is not.

You guys are adding sub-text where there isn't any.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:27 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:22046814f2] No, I think he may be correct - SYR can NOT go to ARM.
If we are taking convoys into account then I think the intent
is that the route the unit must take is important as well.




From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:25:17 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




What happened to Armenia? Did we suddenly pop into a seismic game? =P

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:22046814f2] Nope, because a fleet in SYR is not two spaces away from a Russian province.

In that case, the fleet in SYR would be removed, because even at the least, the fleet in SYR is 4 spaces away from SEV.



On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 10:21 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:22046814f2] yes - even if the unit in SYR was also a fleet.


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:18:57 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Exactly. Because both are two spaces away from Russias home SCs. Then you take the one that is not on an SC itself.

Go one step further. Same example but add a fleet in the Norwegian Sea. In that case, it would be the fleet that gets disbanded and Munich and Syria would both stay on the board.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:15 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:22046814f2] so then if you had a unit in MUN and SYR - the unit in SYR would
then be disbanded?


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>

To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>

Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:00:40 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




None of those take precedence over each other - they are meant to be taken as a whole.

i.e.


The unit disbanded is the one that is furthest from a home center.
If more than one is equidistant from a home SC, then the unit removed is one not on a supply center.
If more than one are not on a supply center then you take fleets before armies.
Then you resort to the alphabet if there choices still have not resolved into one.


In this case there was only one unit that was two spaces away from a home SC. That was Munich.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:54 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:22046814f2] Yeah, I was just looking at that. What the rules don't say is which takes priority,
furtherest from home, or on a supply center or not.

But I am curious - given the three editions that have come out since my 82 edition -
what do they say? Yes, I know the DC House Rules trump the real rules, but it
would be interesting to see what they say. Especially since Kevin's email implies they
may be different.



From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 10:47:59 PM


Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Good grief. How did I miss sending in that order. Sorry guys.

Packrat is right though - the default is usually the unit furthest from the home centers. (Not just any center.) But default removals are covered by the HRS - which are in this case the default DC house rules.


"On a Winter turn an NMR (NBR/NDR) would mean that if the player was building - the builds would be waived and if the player was disbanding, units would be disbanded under the following rules [list:22046814f2] [*:22046814f2]Units not in a supply center before units in a supply center [*:22046814f2]Units further from home centers before units closer to home centers [*:22046814f2]Fleets before armies if equidistant per the above [*:22046814f2]Alphabetical"[/list:u:22046814f2]

Both of my units that are not on a supply center are only one space from a home center. Munich is two. As such, Jackson made the correct disband.


Long story short, the lapse on my part was unforgiveable and the forced disband is my fault. I think Jackosn made the right call.


Trout






On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

[quote:22046814f2] Which rules are you referencing?



On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:14 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:22046814f2] I believe the rules say HOME supply center.

The units are removed furthest from home first - regardless of
whether it is a supply center or not, armies before fleets, and
alphabetically if equidistant.



From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:11:33 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905



Folks, I have a dispute about these adjudications.

The default by Russia seems to be incorrect adjudicated, according to the DiplomaticCorp House Rules.

The rules specifically state that the first unit to be removed is a unit that is not in a supply center. Clearly, MUN is a supply center.

Then, the next criteria states that the unit which is further from a home supply center is to be removed. Both FIN and BLA are one space away from a home supply center (even though STP is not owned by Russia, it is still a Home supply center).

The third criteria is a fleet before an army will be removed. BLA is a fleet. FIN is an army. Therefore, BLA should have been removed.

Thanks,
-kevin


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:22046814f2] Austria:
Build A Trieste
Build A Vienna
Build A Budapest


England:
Defaults, removing F Yorkshire


France:
Build A Paris
Build A Marseilles
Build F Brest


Germany:
Remove A Bohemia


Italy:
Remove F Eastern Mediterranean
Remove A Ankara


Russia:
Defaults, removing A Munich




Next orders due Friday the 26th 23:00 GMT
If this does not work let me know as I know some may be on vacation.


Kai









[/quote:22046814f2]



[/quote:22046814f2]








[/quote:22046814f2]








[/quote:22046814f2]








[/quote:22046814f2]



[/quote:22046814f2]







[/quote:22046814f2]








[/quote:22046814f2]







[/quote:22046814f2]








[/quote:22046814f2]
dc 197 Winter 1905 (dc197) Kai Dec 19, 03:48 pm
That map is still wrong. I will send out the new one when I get home tonight. Sorry all, it is an Austrian fleet in TRI jsut to remind everyone.

On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 3:12 PM, Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

Hey guys,

The ruling stands as is. I interpreted it as farthest away from the home centers, as did RealPolitik. There was a mess up on my part however, Austria is right and it should be a Fleet in Tri. I read it horribly wrong and have no idea why. >_< Correct map is attached. And it seems everyone is ok with the deadline as is?


Kai


On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 12:07 AM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:7683688537] FWIW - I agree. On all points.

You might also want to consider something at the top of the houserules
stating what edition was used in drafting the rules. The URL you had
in the other email would be good to put up there as well.


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>

To: Kevin Lynch <klynch427(at)hotmail.com ([email]klynch427(at)hotmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Germany Diplomacy <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Turkey DC 197 <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent France Diplomacy <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; Joe/Italy Diplomacy <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor/England Diplomacy <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:02:17 AM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Guys,

Having taken part in creating the default HRs I can assure everyone that it was never the intention to create a set of rules that conflicted with the Standard Diplomacy rules.


The quote I just pasted from the rules says essentially the same thing as our house rules do - only our HRs throw in the SC condition as well. Instead of a bullet-point list, the standard rulebook just wrote it into a paragraph.


The bullet-point list is only to eliminate options to reduce the auto-disband to a single choice. All four conditions should be viewed as a set and taken together.


The final word is up to Jackson, of course. But the rule-book says that he made the right call, the HRs say that he made the right call and as the player whose unit it is I agree with it as well.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:49 PM, Kevin Lynch <klynch427(at)hotmail.com ([email]klynch427(at)hotmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:7683688537] Wow - lots of emails in my inbox tonight. 2 comments.

1) I actually requested a Fleet in Trieste. I've re-sent that email to the GM, not sure how I ended up with an Army in TRI instead.

2) I'm not sure I quite understand the "take the rules as a whole" argument. Don't you use alphabetically only as the last resort? And don't you use fleet over army only as the next-to-last resort? It would make more sense to me to keep a unit in a supply center, so I'd think that comes first. In which case, BLA should be disbanded and not MUN. I don't really care too much how this ends up, but that is the outcome that makes the most sense to me.

Austrian Kevin

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 20:37:22 -0800
From: brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905

To: former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])
CC: kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email]); jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email]); stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email]); vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email]); josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email]); rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email]); KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])


A fleet in SYR cannot go through ARM. If it said shortest distance I would agree.

Oh, wait - these are DC rules - the hell with the game rules.


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:33:22 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905

Right on. So we agree. =)

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:32 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:7683688537] nope - the 82 rules say "as computed by the shortest route"


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:29:20 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Number of spaces is counted regardless of unit type. Whether the unit is a fleet or an army is irrelevent. For the purpose of calculating distance from a home SC, the unit is either X number of spaces or it is not.

You guys are adding sub-text where there isn't any.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:27 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:7683688537] No, I think he may be correct - SYR can NOT go to ARM.
If we are taking convoys into account then I think the intent
is that the route the unit must take is important as well.




From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:25:17 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




What happened to Armenia? Did we suddenly pop into a seismic game? =P

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:7683688537] Nope, because a fleet in SYR is not two spaces away from a Russian province.

In that case, the fleet in SYR would be removed, because even at the least, the fleet in SYR is 4 spaces away from SEV.



On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 10:21 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:7683688537] yes - even if the unit in SYR was also a fleet.


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:18:57 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Exactly. Because both are two spaces away from Russias home SCs. Then you take the one that is not on an SC itself.

Go one step further. Same example but add a fleet in the Norwegian Sea. In that case, it would be the fleet that gets disbanded and Munich and Syria would both stay on the board.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:15 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:7683688537] so then if you had a unit in MUN and SYR - the unit in SYR would
then be disbanded?


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>

To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>

Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:00:40 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




None of those take precedence over each other - they are meant to be taken as a whole.

i.e.


The unit disbanded is the one that is furthest from a home center.
If more than one is equidistant from a home SC, then the unit removed is one not on a supply center.
If more than one are not on a supply center then you take fleets before armies.
Then you resort to the alphabet if there choices still have not resolved into one.


In this case there was only one unit that was two spaces away from a home SC. That was Munich.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:54 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:7683688537] Yeah, I was just looking at that. What the rules don't say is which takes priority,
furtherest from home, or on a supply center or not.

But I am curious - given the three editions that have come out since my 82 edition -
what do they say? Yes, I know the DC House Rules trump the real rules, but it
would be interesting to see what they say. Especially since Kevin's email implies they
may be different.



From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 10:47:59 PM


Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Good grief. How did I miss sending in that order. Sorry guys.

Packrat is right though - the default is usually the unit furthest from the home centers. (Not just any center.) But default removals are covered by the HRS - which are in this case the default DC house rules.


"On a Winter turn an NMR (NBR/NDR) would mean that if the player was building - the builds would be waived and if the player was disbanding, units would be disbanded under the following rules [list:7683688537] [*:7683688537]Units not in a supply center before units in a supply center [*:7683688537]Units further from home centers before units closer to home centers [*:7683688537]Fleets before armies if equidistant per the above [*:7683688537]Alphabetical"[/list:u:7683688537]

Both of my units that are not on a supply center are only one space from a home center. Munich is two. As such, Jackson made the correct disband.


Long story short, the lapse on my part was unforgiveable and the forced disband is my fault. I think Jackosn made the right call.


Trout






On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

[quote:7683688537] Which rules are you referencing?



On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:14 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:7683688537] I believe the rules say HOME supply center.

The units are removed furthest from home first - regardless of
whether it is a supply center or not, armies before fleets, and
alphabetically if equidistant.



From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:11:33 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905



Folks, I have a dispute about these adjudications.

The default by Russia seems to be incorrect adjudicated, according to the DiplomaticCorp House Rules.

The rules specifically state that the first unit to be removed is a unit that is not in a supply center. Clearly, MUN is a supply center.

Then, the next criteria states that the unit which is further from a home supply center is to be removed. Both FIN and BLA are one space away from a home supply center (even though STP is not owned by Russia, it is still a Home supply center).

The third criteria is a fleet before an army will be removed. BLA is a fleet. FIN is an army. Therefore, BLA should have been removed.

Thanks,
-kevin


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:7683688537] Austria:
Build A Trieste
Build A Vienna
Build A Budapest


England:
Defaults, removing F Yorkshire


France:
Build A Paris
Build A Marseilles
Build F Brest


Germany:
Remove A Bohemia


Italy:
Remove F Eastern Mediterranean
Remove A Ankara


Russia:
Defaults, removing A Munich




Next orders due Friday the 26th 23:00 GMT
If this does not work let me know as I know some may be on vacation.


Kai









[/quote:7683688537]



[/quote:7683688537]








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[/quote:7683688537]
dc 197 Winter 1905 (dc197) Kai Dec 20, 03:41 pm
Right map+
On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 4:47 PM, Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

That map is still wrong. I will send out the new one when I get home tonight. Sorry all, it is an Austrian fleet in TRI jsut to remind everyone.


On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 3:12 PM, Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:caa09ac68a]Hey guys,

The ruling stands as is. I interpreted it as farthest away from the home centers, as did RealPolitik. There was a mess up on my part however, Austria is right and it should be a Fleet in Tri. I read it horribly wrong and have no idea why. >_< Correct map is attached. And it seems everyone is ok with the deadline as is?


Kai


On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 12:07 AM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:caa09ac68a] FWIW - I agree. On all points.

You might also want to consider something at the top of the houserules
stating what edition was used in drafting the rules. The URL you had
in the other email would be good to put up there as well.


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>

To: Kevin Lynch <klynch427(at)hotmail.com ([email]klynch427(at)hotmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Germany Diplomacy <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Turkey DC 197 <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent France Diplomacy <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; Joe/Italy Diplomacy <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor/England Diplomacy <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:02:17 AM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Guys,

Having taken part in creating the default HRs I can assure everyone that it was never the intention to create a set of rules that conflicted with the Standard Diplomacy rules.


The quote I just pasted from the rules says essentially the same thing as our house rules do - only our HRs throw in the SC condition as well. Instead of a bullet-point list, the standard rulebook just wrote it into a paragraph.


The bullet-point list is only to eliminate options to reduce the auto-disband to a single choice. All four conditions should be viewed as a set and taken together.


The final word is up to Jackson, of course. But the rule-book says that he made the right call, the HRs say that he made the right call and as the player whose unit it is I agree with it as well.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:49 PM, Kevin Lynch <klynch427(at)hotmail.com ([email]klynch427(at)hotmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:caa09ac68a] Wow - lots of emails in my inbox tonight. 2 comments.

1) I actually requested a Fleet in Trieste. I've re-sent that email to the GM, not sure how I ended up with an Army in TRI instead.

2) I'm not sure I quite understand the "take the rules as a whole" argument. Don't you use alphabetically only as the last resort? And don't you use fleet over army only as the next-to-last resort? It would make more sense to me to keep a unit in a supply center, so I'd think that comes first. In which case, BLA should be disbanded and not MUN. I don't really care too much how this ends up, but that is the outcome that makes the most sense to me.

Austrian Kevin

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 20:37:22 -0800
From: brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905

To: former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])
CC: kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email]); jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email]); stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email]); vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email]); josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email]); rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email]); KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])


A fleet in SYR cannot go through ARM. If it said shortest distance I would agree.

Oh, wait - these are DC rules - the hell with the game rules.


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:33:22 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905

Right on. So we agree. =)

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:32 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:caa09ac68a] nope - the 82 rules say "as computed by the shortest route"


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:29:20 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Number of spaces is counted regardless of unit type. Whether the unit is a fleet or an army is irrelevent. For the purpose of calculating distance from a home SC, the unit is either X number of spaces or it is not.

You guys are adding sub-text where there isn't any.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:27 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:caa09ac68a] No, I think he may be correct - SYR can NOT go to ARM.
If we are taking convoys into account then I think the intent
is that the route the unit must take is important as well.




From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:25:17 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




What happened to Armenia? Did we suddenly pop into a seismic game? =P

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:caa09ac68a] Nope, because a fleet in SYR is not two spaces away from a Russian province.

In that case, the fleet in SYR would be removed, because even at the least, the fleet in SYR is 4 spaces away from SEV.



On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 10:21 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:caa09ac68a] yes - even if the unit in SYR was also a fleet.


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:18:57 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Exactly. Because both are two spaces away from Russias home SCs. Then you take the one that is not on an SC itself.

Go one step further. Same example but add a fleet in the Norwegian Sea. In that case, it would be the fleet that gets disbanded and Munich and Syria would both stay on the board.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:15 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:caa09ac68a] so then if you had a unit in MUN and SYR - the unit in SYR would
then be disbanded?


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>

To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>

Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:00:40 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




None of those take precedence over each other - they are meant to be taken as a whole.

i.e.


The unit disbanded is the one that is furthest from a home center.
If more than one is equidistant from a home SC, then the unit removed is one not on a supply center.
If more than one are not on a supply center then you take fleets before armies.
Then you resort to the alphabet if there choices still have not resolved into one.


In this case there was only one unit that was two spaces away from a home SC. That was Munich.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:54 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:caa09ac68a] Yeah, I was just looking at that. What the rules don't say is which takes priority,
furtherest from home, or on a supply center or not.

But I am curious - given the three editions that have come out since my 82 edition -
what do they say? Yes, I know the DC House Rules trump the real rules, but it
would be interesting to see what they say. Especially since Kevin's email implies they
may be different.



From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 10:47:59 PM


Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Good grief. How did I miss sending in that order. Sorry guys.

Packrat is right though - the default is usually the unit furthest from the home centers. (Not just any center.) But default removals are covered by the HRS - which are in this case the default DC house rules.


"On a Winter turn an NMR (NBR/NDR) would mean that if the player was building - the builds would be waived and if the player was disbanding, units would be disbanded under the following rules [list:caa09ac68a] [*:caa09ac68a]Units not in a supply center before units in a supply center [*:caa09ac68a]Units further from home centers before units closer to home centers [*:caa09ac68a]Fleets before armies if equidistant per the above [*:caa09ac68a]Alphabetical"[/list:u:caa09ac68a]

Both of my units that are not on a supply center are only one space from a home center. Munich is two. As such, Jackson made the correct disband.


Long story short, the lapse on my part was unforgiveable and the forced disband is my fault. I think Jackosn made the right call.


Trout






On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

[quote:caa09ac68a] Which rules are you referencing?



On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:14 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:caa09ac68a] I believe the rules say HOME supply center.

The units are removed furthest from home first - regardless of
whether it is a supply center or not, armies before fleets, and
alphabetically if equidistant.



From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:11:33 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905



Folks, I have a dispute about these adjudications.

The default by Russia seems to be incorrect adjudicated, according to the DiplomaticCorp House Rules.

The rules specifically state that the first unit to be removed is a unit that is not in a supply center. Clearly, MUN is a supply center.

Then, the next criteria states that the unit which is further from a home supply center is to be removed. Both FIN and BLA are one space away from a home supply center (even though STP is not owned by Russia, it is still a Home supply center).

The third criteria is a fleet before an army will be removed. BLA is a fleet. FIN is an army. Therefore, BLA should have been removed.

Thanks,
-kevin


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:caa09ac68a] Austria:
Build A Trieste
Build A Vienna
Build A Budapest


England:
Defaults, removing F Yorkshire


France:
Build A Paris
Build A Marseilles
Build F Brest


Germany:
Remove A Bohemia


Italy:
Remove F Eastern Mediterranean
Remove A Ankara


Russia:
Defaults, removing A Munich




Next orders due Friday the 26th 23:00 GMT
If this does not work let me know as I know some may be on vacation.


Kai









[/quote:caa09ac68a]



[/quote:caa09ac68a]








[/quote:caa09ac68a]








[/quote:caa09ac68a]








[/quote:caa09ac68a]



[/quote:caa09ac68a]







[/quote:caa09ac68a]








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[/quote:caa09ac68a]








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[/quote:caa09ac68a]



[/quote:caa09ac68a]
dc 197 Winter 1905 (dc197) Kai Dec 26, 12:05 pm
Reminder guys- Orders are due by 23:00 GMT Today. Missing some still.

On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 4:40 PM, Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:


Right map+

On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 4:47 PM, Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:4e7afa7e7c]That map is still wrong. I will send out the new one when I get home tonight. Sorry all, it is an Austrian fleet in TRI jsut to remind everyone.


On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 3:12 PM, Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:4e7afa7e7c]Hey guys,

The ruling stands as is. I interpreted it as farthest away from the home centers, as did RealPolitik. There was a mess up on my part however, Austria is right and it should be a Fleet in Tri. I read it horribly wrong and have no idea why. >_< Correct map is attached. And it seems everyone is ok with the deadline as is?


Kai


On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 12:07 AM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:4e7afa7e7c] FWIW - I agree. On all points.

You might also want to consider something at the top of the houserules
stating what edition was used in drafting the rules. The URL you had
in the other email would be good to put up there as well.


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>

To: Kevin Lynch <klynch427(at)hotmail.com ([email]klynch427(at)hotmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Germany Diplomacy <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Turkey DC 197 <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent France Diplomacy <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; Joe/Italy Diplomacy <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor/England Diplomacy <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:02:17 AM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Guys,

Having taken part in creating the default HRs I can assure everyone that it was never the intention to create a set of rules that conflicted with the Standard Diplomacy rules.


The quote I just pasted from the rules says essentially the same thing as our house rules do - only our HRs throw in the SC condition as well. Instead of a bullet-point list, the standard rulebook just wrote it into a paragraph.


The bullet-point list is only to eliminate options to reduce the auto-disband to a single choice. All four conditions should be viewed as a set and taken together.


The final word is up to Jackson, of course. But the rule-book says that he made the right call, the HRs say that he made the right call and as the player whose unit it is I agree with it as well.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:49 PM, Kevin Lynch <klynch427(at)hotmail.com ([email]klynch427(at)hotmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:4e7afa7e7c] Wow - lots of emails in my inbox tonight. 2 comments.

1) I actually requested a Fleet in Trieste. I've re-sent that email to the GM, not sure how I ended up with an Army in TRI instead.

2) I'm not sure I quite understand the "take the rules as a whole" argument. Don't you use alphabetically only as the last resort? And don't you use fleet over army only as the next-to-last resort? It would make more sense to me to keep a unit in a supply center, so I'd think that comes first. In which case, BLA should be disbanded and not MUN. I don't really care too much how this ends up, but that is the outcome that makes the most sense to me.

Austrian Kevin

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 20:37:22 -0800
From: brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905

To: former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])
CC: kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email]); jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email]); stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email]); vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email]); josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email]); rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email]); KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])


A fleet in SYR cannot go through ARM. If it said shortest distance I would agree.

Oh, wait - these are DC rules - the hell with the game rules.


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:33:22 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905

Right on. So we agree. =)

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:32 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:4e7afa7e7c] nope - the 82 rules say "as computed by the shortest route"


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:29:20 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Number of spaces is counted regardless of unit type. Whether the unit is a fleet or an army is irrelevent. For the purpose of calculating distance from a home SC, the unit is either X number of spaces or it is not.

You guys are adding sub-text where there isn't any.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:27 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:4e7afa7e7c] No, I think he may be correct - SYR can NOT go to ARM.
If we are taking convoys into account then I think the intent
is that the route the unit must take is important as well.




From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:25:17 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




What happened to Armenia? Did we suddenly pop into a seismic game? =P

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:4e7afa7e7c] Nope, because a fleet in SYR is not two spaces away from a Russian province.

In that case, the fleet in SYR would be removed, because even at the least, the fleet in SYR is 4 spaces away from SEV.



On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 10:21 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:4e7afa7e7c] yes - even if the unit in SYR was also a fleet.


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:18:57 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Exactly. Because both are two spaces away from Russias home SCs. Then you take the one that is not on an SC itself.

Go one step further. Same example but add a fleet in the Norwegian Sea. In that case, it would be the fleet that gets disbanded and Munich and Syria would both stay on the board.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:15 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:4e7afa7e7c] so then if you had a unit in MUN and SYR - the unit in SYR would
then be disbanded?


From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>

To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>

Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:00:40 PM

Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




None of those take precedence over each other - they are meant to be taken as a whole.

i.e.


The unit disbanded is the one that is furthest from a home center.
If more than one is equidistant from a home SC, then the unit removed is one not on a supply center.
If more than one are not on a supply center then you take fleets before armies.
Then you resort to the alphabet if there choices still have not resolved into one.


In this case there was only one unit that was two spaces away from a home SC. That was Munich.


T.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:54 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:4e7afa7e7c] Yeah, I was just looking at that. What the rules don't say is which takes priority,
furtherest from home, or on a supply center or not.

But I am curious - given the three editions that have come out since my 82 edition -
what do they say? Yes, I know the DC House Rules trump the real rules, but it
would be interesting to see what they say. Especially since Kevin's email implies they
may be different.



From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 10:47:59 PM


Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905




Good grief. How did I miss sending in that order. Sorry guys.

Packrat is right though - the default is usually the unit furthest from the home centers. (Not just any center.) But default removals are covered by the HRS - which are in this case the default DC house rules.


"On a Winter turn an NMR (NBR/NDR) would mean that if the player was building - the builds would be waived and if the player was disbanding, units would be disbanded under the following rules [list:4e7afa7e7c] [*:4e7afa7e7c]Units not in a supply center before units in a supply center [*:4e7afa7e7c]Units further from home centers before units closer to home centers [*:4e7afa7e7c]Fleets before armies if equidistant per the above [*:4e7afa7e7c]Alphabetical"[/list:u:4e7afa7e7c]

Both of my units that are not on a supply center are only one space from a home center. Munich is two. As such, Jackson made the correct disband.


Long story short, the lapse on my part was unforgiveable and the forced disband is my fault. I think Jackosn made the right call.


Trout






On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

[quote:4e7afa7e7c] Which rules are you referencing?



On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:14 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:4e7afa7e7c] I believe the rules say HOME supply center.

The units are removed furthest from home first - regardless of
whether it is a supply center or not, armies before fleets, and
alphabetically if equidistant.



From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:11:33 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905



Folks, I have a dispute about these adjudications.

The default by Russia seems to be incorrect adjudicated, according to the DiplomaticCorp House Rules.

The rules specifically state that the first unit to be removed is a unit that is not in a supply center. Clearly, MUN is a supply center.

Then, the next criteria states that the unit which is further from a home supply center is to be removed. Both FIN and BLA are one space away from a home supply center (even though STP is not owned by Russia, it is still a Home supply center).

The third criteria is a fleet before an army will be removed. BLA is a fleet. FIN is an army. Therefore, BLA should have been removed.

Thanks,
-kevin


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:4e7afa7e7c] Austria:
Build A Trieste
Build A Vienna
Build A Budapest


England:
Defaults, removing F Yorkshire


France:
Build A Paris
Build A Marseilles
Build F Brest


Germany:
Remove A Bohemia


Italy:
Remove F Eastern Mediterranean
Remove A Ankara


Russia:
Defaults, removing A Munich




Next orders due Friday the 26th 23:00 GMT
If this does not work let me know as I know some may be on vacation.


Kai









[/quote:4e7afa7e7c]



[/quote:4e7afa7e7c]








[/quote:4e7afa7e7c]








[/quote:4e7afa7e7c]








[/quote:4e7afa7e7c]



[/quote:4e7afa7e7c]







[/quote:4e7afa7e7c]








[/quote:4e7afa7e7c]







[/quote:4e7afa7e7c]








[/quote:4e7afa7e7c]




[/quote:4e7afa7e7c]



[/quote:4e7afa7e7c]



[/quote:4e7afa7e7c]
dc 197 Winter 1905 (dc197) Kai Dec 28, 05:31 pm
Hey all aorry for the delay. Will be out tomorrow.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:05 PM, Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

Austria:
Build A Trieste
Build A Vienna
Build A Budapest


England:
Defaults, removing F Yorkshire


France:
Build A Paris
Build A Marseilles
Build F Brest


Germany:
Remove A Bohemia


Italy:
Remove F Eastern Mediterranean
Remove A Ankara


Russia:
Defaults, removing A Munich




Next orders due Friday the 26th 23:00 GMT
If this does not work let me know as I know some may be on vacation.


Kai

DC223 - Fall 1902 Adjudication - bielf11   (Dec 17, 2008, 6:33 pm)
Fall 1902: a reporter from The Gazette is quoted saying that the Austrian Emperor for sure will show his displeasure with this Fall's result. Perhaps the taking of Greece may make up for the loss of Munich, but having to retreat is a public disgrace. No doubt the other Powers will remind him of that! And 1902 has been a year where alliances have become much more visible: Italy and Austria seem to have a common goal in the Balkan and Austria has shown an early interest in Munich; Germany meanwhile seems to have gained the support from Russia; As to France and England, it is still unclear who their allies are.

The Austrian army in Munich can retreat to Ruhr or Bohemia or Tyrolia. Or OTB.

Austria:
F Albania - Greece
A Budapest Supports A Vienna - Galicia (*Cut*)
A Munich - Kiel (*Dislodged*)
A Vienna - Galicia (*Fails*)

England:
F Edinburgh - Norwegian Sea
F North Sea - Norway (*Fails*)
F Norway - Sweden (*Bounce*)
A Yorkshire Hold

France:
A Burgundy - Belgium
A Gascony - Burgundy
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean Hold
A Paris Supports A Gascony - Burgundy
A Picardy Supports A Burgundy - Belgium

Germany:
A Belgium - Holland
A Berlin - Munich
A Denmark - Kiel (*Bounce*)
F Helgoland Bight - Kiel (*Bounce*)

Italy:
F Ionian Sea - Tunis
F Naples - Ionian Sea
A Serbia Supports F Albania - Greece
A Trieste Supports A Budapest

Russia:
A Galicia Supports A Rumania - Budapest (*Cut*)
A Moscow - St Petersburg
A Rumania - Budapest (*Fails*)
F Sevastopol Supports A Bulgaria - Rumania (*Fails*)
A Silesia Supports A Berlin - Munich
F Skagerrak - Sweden (*Bounce*)

Turkey:
F Ankara - Constantinople (*Fails*)
A Bulgaria - Rumania (*Fails*)
A Constantinople - Bulgaria (*Fails*)
F Smyrna - Aegean Sea

Deadline for Autumn 1902 retreat for Austria is Thursday, Dec 18 at 23:00 GMT.
Please note that any orders for Summer or Autumn are considered Final by default. So unless the retreats clearly state Prelims, the retreat orders will be adjudicated as soon as all retreat orders are in.

NOTE: I will be away, without access to the Internet from Saturday Dec 20 until Sunday Dec 28.
So I'd like to suggest that the deadline for Winter 1902 will be Sunday Dec 28, at 23:00 GMT.
And Spring 1903 on Sunday Jan 4, at 23:00 GMT.
Any objections to these dates, please let me asap.

Frank

[Reply]

DC223 - Fall 1902 Adjudication (dc223) pieandmash Dec 18, 02:27 am
Dates good with me. Merry Christmas chaps. Have a great break and enjoy finest English beef and scotch whisky courtesy of the royal navy

Sent from my iPhone

On 18 Dec 2008, at 00:32, "F Bielschowsky" <bielschowsky.f(at)googlemail.com> wrote:

Fall 1902: a reporter from The Gazette is quoted saying that the Austrian Emperor for sure will show his displeasure with this Fall's result. Perhaps the taking of Greece may make up for the loss of Munich, but having to retreat is a public disgrace. No doubt the other Powers will remind him of that! And 1902 has been a year where alliances have become much more visible: Italy and Austria seem to have a common goal in the Balkan and Austria has shown an early interest in Munich; Germany meanwhile seems to have gained the support from Russia; As to France and England, it is still unclear who their allies are.

The Austrian army in Munich can retreat to Ruhr or Bohemia or Tyrolia. Or OTB.
Austria:
F Albania - Greece
A Budapest Supports A Vienna - Galicia (*Cut*)
A Munich - Kiel (*Dislodged*)
A Vienna - Galicia (*Fails*)

England:
F Edinburgh - Norwegian Sea
F North Sea - Norway (*Fails*)
F Norway - Sweden (*Bounce*)
A Yorkshire Hold

France:
A Burgundy - Belgium
A Gascony - Burgundy
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean Hold
A Paris Supports A Gascony - Burgundy
A Picardy Supports A Burgundy - Belgium

Germany:
A Belgium - Holland
A Berlin - Munich
A Denmark - Kiel (*Bounce*)
F Helgoland Bight - Kiel (*Bounce*)

Italy:
F Ionian Sea - Tunis
F Naples - Ionian Sea
A Serbia Supports F Albania - Greece
A Trieste Supports A Budapest

Russia:
A Galicia Supports A Rumania - Budapest (*Cut*)
A Moscow - St Petersburg
A Rumania - Budapest (*Fails*)
F Sevastopol Supports A Bulgaria - Rumania (*Fails*)
A Silesia Supports A Berlin - Munich
F Skagerrak - Sweden (*Bounce*)

Turkey:
F Ankara - Constantinople (*Fails*)
A Bulgaria - Rumania (*Fails*)
A Constantinople - Bulgaria (*Fails*)
F Smyrna - Aegean Sea

Deadline for Autumn 1902 retreat for Austria is Thursday, Dec 18 at 23:00 GMT.
Please note that any orders for Summer or Autumn are considered Final by default. So unless the retreats clearly state Prelims, the retreat orders will be adjudicated as soon as all retreat orders are in.

NOTE: I will be away, without access to the Internet from Saturday Dec 20 until Sunday Dec 28.
So I'd like to suggest that the deadline for Winter 1902 will be Sunday Dec 28, at 23:00 GMT.
And Spring 1903 on Sunday Jan 4, at 23:00 GMT.
Any objections to these dates, please let me asap.

Frank
<DC223 Autumn 1902.gif>
<DC223 F1902 moves.gif>
<DC223 Autumn 1902.dpy>
Unknown - david_e_cohen   (Dec 17, 2008, 5:25 pm)
I don't see anything.

[Reply]

DC 207: Summer 366 Map - scaponig   (Dec 17, 2008, 4:34 pm)
Here she is.

Thanks!

Steve

[Reply]

Unknown (dc207) david_e_cohen Dec 17, 05:25 pm
I don't see anything.
Unknown (dc207) scaponig Dec 18, 07:10 am
Did you get the email, or just the post?
I'm pretty sure I attached it to the email.
Unknown (dc207) david_e_cohen Dec 18, 09:01 am
I do not believe I am on your email list for adjudications. I would love to be, though. The email address to use is zendip18 AT optonline DOT net.
DC219, Spring 03 - m_don_j   (Dec 17, 2008, 2:43 pm)
And here are the results!

Austria:
A Budapest - Serbia
F Bulgaria(sc), no move received
A Greece Supports F Bulgaria(sc)
A Trieste Supports A Tyrolia - Venice
A Tyrolia - Venice (*Fails*)
A Vienna - Tyrolia (*Fails*)

England:
F Brest - Mid-Atlantic Ocean (*Fails*)
F Edinburgh - North Sea (*Bounce*)
F London - English Channel
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean - Western Mediterranean (*Fails*)
F Norway Supports F Edinburgh - North Sea (*Cut*)
A St Petersburg, H

France:
F Gascony - Ber (*illegal, holds*)
A Portugal - Lon (*illegal, holds*)
F Spain(sc) - Rom (*illegal, holds*)

Germany:
A Berlin - Kiel
A Burgundy - Marseilles (*Fails*)
F Denmark - North Sea (*Bounce*)
A Picardy Supports F Gascony - Brest (*Void*)
A Ruhr - Belgium
A Silesia - Munich
F Sweden - Norway (*Fails*)

Italy:
A Apulia Supports A Venice
A Marseilles Supports F Western Mediterranean - Spain(sc) (*Cut*)
F Naples - Ionian Sea
A Venice H
F Western Mediterranean - Spain(sc) (*Fails*)

Russia:
F Armenia - Ankara
F Black Sea Supports F Armenia - Ankara
A Rumania - Ukraine
A Ukraine - Warsaw

Turkey:
F Aegean Sea Supports F Constantinople - Bulgaria(sc)
F Constantinople - Bulgaria(sc) (*Fails*)
A Smyrna, H

Since we have no retreats we move straight to fall, can we put that on the 20th, have retreats (or builds) by the 21th, and if we have retreats we'll do builds by the 22th. This is cutting it a bit close, but I'd like to resolve this season before Christmas. If I get final orders before deadline, I will adjudicate early.

SO:

Fall, December 20th, 20:00:00 GMT
Retreats (if any, otherwise this will be the winter deadline) December 21th, 20:00:00
Builds (if we have retreats) December 22th, 20:00:00

Cheers!

/ Mikael

Höststäda med nya dammsugarpåsar. www.Dammsugarpåsar.Nu

[Reply]

DC219, All orders in - m_don_j   (Dec 17, 2008, 2:23 pm)
Heya folks!

All orders are in, commencing Adjudication.

/ Mikael
Höststäda med nya dammsugarpåsar. www.Dammsugarpåsar.Nu

[Reply]

DC 220 Delay - Verticallychallangedcutie   (Dec 17, 2008, 12:27 pm)
Folks,
I just received a 2 day extension request and I've granted it. The new deadline is Friday Dec 19th at 7pm EST.

-Rachael

[Reply]

DC 211: (Ctrl-Z... Undo) - AceRimmer   (Dec 17, 2008, 9:24 am)
Reverse conga line! Let’s back up the other way! But, for fun, let’s go through Kiel instead of Denmark. You guys are very entertaining, you know. And I like the way you are resurrecting the trench-warfare feeling of WWI by... well... by not going anywhere. Nor changing any boundaries.

Alright, so nobody asked the GM to be a wise ass. Consider it free in the bargain.

Retreats:
Russian Army Sweden may retreat to Finland, St. Petersburg, or OTB
Turkish Army Constantinople may retreat to Ankara or OTB

Deadline: Retreats ASAP but technically no later than Thursday at 1000 CST

I would still like to get seismics and adjustments processed this week, but I will trickle into next week if your negotiations require the full time (your negotiations always take precedence; they really do). Upcoming adjustments and SC counts are listed at the end of the adjudication.

Austria:
A Tri -> Gre
A Bul S Smy -> Con
A Boh S Tyl
A Pie -> Tri
A Tyl S Ber
A Smy -> Con

England:
A Kiel -> Sweden
F Norway Support Kiel -> Sweden
F North Atlantic Support Norway
F Helgoland Bight -> Denmark (*Fails*)
F North Sea Support Helgoland Bight -> Denmark (*Cut*)
A Belgium -> Holland

France:
A Ruh S A Mun
A Bur S A Bel - Hol
A Mun S A Bel - Hol
F Tys – Nap (*Bounce 1:1 with F Nap-Tys*)
F Spa - GoL
F MAt - Spa(sc)
A Por S F MAt – Spa

Germany:
F Hol-Kie

Italy:
F Ion - Smy
F NAf - Wes
F Nap – Tys (*Bounce 1:1 with F Tys-Nap*)
A Rom H

Russia:
F Rum - Black Sea (*Fails*)
A Sev – Rum (*Fails*)
a war s a ber
a ber s german f hol - kie
a den s german f hol – kie (*Cut*)
a swe s f den (*Cut*, *Dislodged*)
f ska – nth (*Fails*)

Turkey:
A con to bul (*Fail*, *Dislodged*)
F Bla S A con to Bul (*Cut*)
F alb S F ion to Gre (*Void*)

In the Winter, Builds will be (not including any retreats off the board):

SC Builds/Disbands
Austria 7 +1
England 6
France 7
Germany 1
Italy 5 +1
Russia 7
Turkey 1 -2

[Reply]

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