Hey guys,
The ruling stands as is. I interpreted it as farthest away from the home centers, as did RealPolitik. There was a mess up on my part however, Austria is right and it should be a Fleet in Tri. I read it horribly wrong and have no idea why. >_< Correct map is attached. And it seems everyone is ok with the deadline as is?
Kai
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 12:07 AM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
FWIW - I agree. On all points.
You might also want to consider something at the top of the houserules
stating what edition was used in drafting the rules. The URL you had
in the other email would be good to put up there as well.
From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Kevin Lynch <klynch427(at)hotmail.com ([email]klynch427(at)hotmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Germany Diplomacy <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Turkey DC 197 <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent France Diplomacy <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; Joe/Italy Diplomacy <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor/England Diplomacy <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:02:17 AM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905
Guys,
Having taken part in creating the default HRs I can assure everyone that it was never the intention to create a set of rules that conflicted with the Standard Diplomacy rules.
The quote I just pasted from the rules says essentially the same thing as our house rules do - only our HRs throw in the SC condition as well. Instead of a bullet-point list, the standard rulebook just wrote it into a paragraph.
The bullet-point list is only to eliminate options to reduce the auto-disband to a single choice. All four conditions should be viewed as a set and taken together.
The final word is up to Jackson, of course. But the rule-book says that he made the right call, the HRs say that he made the right call and as the player whose unit it is I agree with it as well.
T.
On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:49 PM, Kevin Lynch <klynch427(at)hotmail.com ([email]klynch427(at)hotmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:f6abaa8082] Wow - lots of emails in my inbox tonight. 2 comments.
1) I actually requested a Fleet in Trieste. I've re-sent that email to the GM, not sure how I ended up with an Army in TRI instead.
2) I'm not sure I quite understand the "take the rules as a whole" argument. Don't you use alphabetically only as the last resort? And don't you use fleet over army only as the next-to-last resort? It would make more sense to me to keep a unit in a supply center, so I'd think that comes first. In which case, BLA should be disbanded and not MUN. I don't really care too much how this ends up, but that is the outcome that makes the most sense to me.
Austrian Kevin
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 20:37:22 -0800
From: brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905
To: former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])
CC: kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email]); jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email]); stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email]); vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email]); josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email]); rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email]); KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
A fleet in SYR cannot go through ARM. If it said shortest distance I would agree.
Oh, wait - these are DC rules - the hell with the game rules.
From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:33:22 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905
Right on. So we agree. =)
On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:32 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:f6abaa8082] nope - the 82 rules say "as computed by the shortest route"
From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:29:20 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905
Number of spaces is counted regardless of unit type. Whether the unit is a fleet or an army is irrelevent. For the purpose of calculating distance from a home SC, the unit is either X number of spaces or it is not.
You guys are adding sub-text where there isn't any.
T.
On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:27 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:f6abaa8082]No, I think he may be correct - SYR can NOT go to ARM.
If we are taking convoys into account then I think the intent
is that the route the unit must take is important as well.
From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:25:17 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905
What happened to Armenia? Did we suddenly pop into a seismic game? =P
On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:f6abaa8082]Nope, because a fleet in SYR is not two spaces away from a Russian province.
In that case, the fleet in SYR would be removed, because even at the least, the fleet in SYR is 4 spaces away from SEV.
On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 10:21 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:f6abaa8082] yes - even if the unit in SYR was also a fleet.
From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:18:57 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905
Exactly. Because both are two spaces away from Russias home SCs. Then you take the one that is not on an SC itself.
Go one step further. Same example but add a fleet in the Norwegian Sea. In that case, it would be the fleet that gets disbanded and Munich and Syria would both stay on the board.
T.
On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:15 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:f6abaa8082] so then if you had a unit in MUN and SYR - the unit in SYR would
then be disbanded?
From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
Cc: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:00:40 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905
None of those take precedence over each other - they are meant to be taken as a whole.
i.e.
The unit disbanded is the one that is furthest from a home center.
If more than one is equidistant from a home SC, then the unit removed is one not on a supply center.
If more than one are not on a supply center then you take fleets before armies.
Then you resort to the alphabet if there choices still have not resolved into one.
In this case there was only one unit that was two spaces away from a home SC. That was Munich.
T.
On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:54 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:f6abaa8082] Yeah, I was just looking at that. What the rules don't say is which takes priority,
furtherest from home, or on a supply center or not.
But I am curious - given the three editions that have come out since my 82 edition -
what do they say? Yes, I know the DC House Rules trump the real rules, but it
would be interesting to see what they say. Especially since Kevin's email implies they
may be different.
From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 10:47:59 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905
Good grief. How did I miss sending in that order. Sorry guys.
Packrat is right though - the default is usually the unit furthest from the home centers. (Not just any center.) But default removals are covered by the HRS - which are in this case the default DC house rules.
"On a Winter turn an NMR (NBR/NDR) would mean that if the player was building - the builds would be waived and if the player was disbanding, units would be disbanded under the following rules [list:f6abaa8082] [*:f6abaa8082]Units not in a supply center before units in a supply center [*:f6abaa8082]Units further from home centers before units closer to home centers [*:f6abaa8082]Fleets before armies if equidistant per the above [*:f6abaa8082]Alphabetical"[/list:u:f6abaa8082]
Both of my units that are not on a supply center are only one space from a home center. Munich is two. As such, Jackson made the correct disband.
Long story short, the lapse on my part was unforgiveable and the forced disband is my fault. I think Jackosn made the right call.
Trout
On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:f6abaa8082] Which rules are you referencing?
On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:14 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:f6abaa8082] I believe the rules say HOME supply center.
The units are removed furthest from home first - regardless of
whether it is a supply center or not, armies before fleets, and
alphabetically if equidistant.
From: Kevin O <kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com ([email]kodiplomacy(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); Stephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Vincent Decattoire <vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr ([email]vincentdecattoire(at)yahoo.fr[/email])>; joe payne <josepayne(at)gmail.com ([email]josepayne(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Trevor Baillie <rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com ([email]rtbaillie(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com ([email]KLYNCH427(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc197(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:11:33 PM
Subject: Re: dc 197 Winter 1905
Folks, I have a dispute about these adjudications.
The default by Russia seems to be incorrect adjudicated, according to the DiplomaticCorp House Rules.
The rules specifically state that the first unit to be removed is a unit that is not in a supply center. Clearly, MUN is a supply center.
Then, the next criteria states that the unit which is further from a home supply center is to be removed. Both FIN and BLA are one space away from a home supply center (even though STP is not owned by Russia, it is still a Home supply center).
The third criteria is a fleet before an army will be removed. BLA is a fleet. FIN is an army. Therefore, BLA should have been removed.
Thanks,
-kevin
On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Jackson Foster <jrobfoster(at)gmail.com ([email]jrobfoster(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:f6abaa8082] Austria:
Build A Trieste
Build A Vienna
Build A Budapest
England:
Defaults, removing F Yorkshire
France:
Build A Paris
Build A Marseilles
Build F Brest
Germany:
Remove A Bohemia
Italy:
Remove F Eastern Mediterranean
Remove A Ankara
Russia:
Defaults, removing A Munich
Next orders due Friday the 26th 23:00 GMT
If this does not work let me know as I know some may be on vacation.
Kai
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