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Hi guys,

I am really very sorry, but a major disagreement with one of the moderators, means that I have decided to leave Diplomaticcorp.

I hope the game progresses well after you find a replacement for me. The information necessary to continue the game has been left with the DC moderators. You will be asked to submit your orders, and the deadline will be extended.

Cheers,

Paolo.

[Reply]

[Reply]

HI folks,

Guess Bruce's computer came down with a bad bug. He's asked one of the mods to adjudicate the Fall turn in his stead. This is just a quick note to you guys to let you all know that I'll send out the Fall turn ASAP. (Yes - you can all start screaming now...) =P


Bruce just needs to forward me the orders you all have sent him. Alternatively, if you get this before I send out the turn, please feel free to send me a copy of your orders yourself. I will send out the turn as soon as I have all sets of orders in - either from Bruce or from you folks.


Sorry about this minor delay everyone. Thanks for the patience while we sort this out.


Cheers!


Trout




On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 4:24 AM, Bruce Quinn <coebq(at)yahoo.com ([email]coebq(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:bb7123da8d] Gentlemen,

My sincerest apologies. My laptop, where all of my RP files are located, has got a very serious virus. Something called "XPSheld" that is lodged in my syetem files and blocks all anti-virus attempts to access it or clean it. At first all it did was send me a random web page every two minutes or so, now, however, I can no longer even boot fully. I have tried everything I can to fix this problem while I am here on the road, but to no avail. I am going to have wait until I return to China and let my company tech guys have at it. In the meantime, while I can communicate with you all via Yahoo on a hotel machine, I cannot adjudicate. I believe that based on my saved files of the game I can send our dc masters the files needed to adjudicate this turn on my behalf. I have contacted them and will let you know the decision.

Once again, I am very sorry for this delay. I know a game is not fun that doesn't move. Please hang in there with me as I work this out and get us back up and running.

Best regards.

Bruce



From: Bruce Quinn <coebq(at)yahoo.com ([email]coebq(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
To: alfred.nicol(at)virgin.net ([email]alfred.nicol(at)virgin.net[/email]); danshot360(at)yahoo.com ([email]danshot360(at)yahoo.com[/email]); sarkinus(at)yahoo.com ([email]sarkinus(at)yahoo.com[/email]); born_1993_died(at)hotmail.com ([email]born_1993_died(at)hotmail.com[/email]); philidorpriestman(at)live.com ([email]philidorpriestman(at)live.com[/email]); the.ski.3(at)googlemail.com ([email]the.ski.3(at)googlemail.com[/email]); amn(at)benenden.kent.sch.uk ([email]amn(at)benenden.kent.sch.uk[/email]); BearlyTzu(at)Gmail.com; coebq(at)yahoo.com ([email]coebq(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Cc: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>; Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 3:24:15 AM
Subject: DC208 Spring 1903 Results

Therefore, a prudent ruler ought not to keep faith when by so doing it would be against his interest...If men were all good, this precept would not be a good on; but as they are bad, and would not observe their faith with you, so you are not bound to keep faith with them. Nor have legitimate grounds ever failed a prince who wished to show colorable excuse for the non-fulfillment of his promise.

In other words Machiavelli is telling us to not worry about those broken promises--people forget them really very quickly--particularly when you are strong and in a position to offer them something.

As a new year begins, the battle becomes desperate for some while others begin to look elsewhere for a little more action. In the East, the Sultan once again holds the Black Sea, but at the same time orders his men to perform a tactical withdraw, abandoning the ancient city of Constantinople and perhaps preparing for his final stand. Even while supporting his relentless assault on the Turks, the Austrian leader orders his units West, opening a new front; but against whom exactly? In the West the chaos continues, although an alliance may have shown itself...

My apologies for the delay in getting this adjudication out. I wanted to give our new Russia the time he needed, but was then dumped on by work.

Please watch those orders folks. If the RP doesn't accept it as written, I check to see what's up, but I can't make substantive changes. We had one ambiguous order this turn which could not be accepted and another completely erroneous one. Ultimately, the ambiguous order would not have mattered as it would have resulted in a bounce, but I would hate to see someone lose a center on a badly written order.

Let's get this one back on-track and moving. No retreats are due so straight into the Fall we go. Deadline will be Next Monday, October 27 at 2359 GMT. Hey, I'll be in Chicago!

Let me know if you spot any errors or need for time to plot and negotiate.

Good luck and best regards gentlemen!

Bruce

_____________________________________________________________________________

Movement results for Spring of 1903. (dc208 Spring 1903 Moves)

Austria: F Aegean Sea Supports A Bulgaria - Constantinople.
Austria: A Bulgaria - Constantinople.
Austria: F Ionian Sea - Tyrrhenian Sea.
Austria: A Serbia - Bulgaria.
Austria: A Trieste Hold.
Austria: A Vienna - Tyrolia.

England: F Helgoland Bight Supports F Skagerrak - Denmark.
England: A Holland - Kiel (*Bounce*).
England: A London - Belgium.
England: F North Sea Convoys A London - Belgium.
England: F Norway Hold.
England: F Skagerrak - Denmark.

France: F Brest - Mid-Atlantic Ocean.
France: A Burgundy - Munich (*Fails*).
France: A Marseilles Hold.
France: F Spain(sc) Supports A Marseilles.
France: F Western Mediterranean - Tunis (*Fails*).

Germany: F Berlin - Baltic Sea.
Germany: A Denmark - Kiel (*Disbanded*).
Germany: A Kiel, no move received.
Germany: A Munich - Burgundy (*Fails*).
Germany: A Burgundy - Ruhr (*No Such Unit*)

Italy: F Gulf of Lyon Convoys A Tuscany - Marseilles.
Italy: A Piedmont S attack Mar (*invalid Unit*)
Italy: F Tunis - Western Mediterranean (*Fails*).
Italy: A Tuscany - Marseilles (*Fails*).

Russia: F Armenia - Ankara (*Fails*).
Russia: A Finland Supports F Sweden.
Russia: F Rumania - Black Sea (*Fails*).
Russia: A Sevastopol Hold.
Russia: F Sweden Hold.
Russia: A Warsaw - Moscow.

Turkey: F Ankara Supports F Black Sea (*Cut*).
Turkey: F Black Sea Supports F Ankara (*Cut*).
Turkey: A Constantinople - Smyrna.

Unit locations:
Austria: F Aegean Sea, A Bulgaria, A Constantinople, A Trieste, A Tyrolia, F
Tyrrhenian Sea.
England: A Belgium, F Denmark, F Helgoland Bight, A Holland, F North Sea, F
Norway.
France: A Burgundy, A Marseilles, F Mid-Atlantic Ocean, F Spain(sc), F
Western Mediterranean.
Germany: F Baltic Sea, A Kiel, A Munich.
Italy: F Gulf of Lyon, A Piedmont, F Tunis, A Tuscany.
Russia: F Armenia, A Finland, A Moscow, F Rumania, A Sevastopol, F Sweden.
Turkey: F Ankara, F Black Sea, A Smyrna.

Ownership of supply centers:
Austria: Budapest, Bulgaria, Greece, Serbia, Trieste, Vienna.
England: Belgium, Edinburgh, Holland, Liverpool, London, Norway.
France: Brest, Marseilles, Paris, Portugal, Spain.
Germany: Berlin, Denmark, Kiel, Munich.
Italy: Naples, Rome, Tunis, Venice.
Russia: Moscow, Rumania, Sevastopol, St Petersburg, Sweden, Warsaw.
Turkey: Ankara, Constantinople, Smyrna.


NEXT DEADLINE: FALL, 1903 DUE ON MONDAY, 27 OCTOBER (at) 2359 GMT!

[Reply]

Hey all!

Also a special shout-out to Rachael who's spooky birthday is on Halloween... Happy Birthday Rachael!


Trout


On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 9:11 AM, Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:89226c391a]Heya folks,

Slight apology here. Looks as though I made a slight error in the Spring 06 adjudication. Germany ordered Munich to Silisia, not to Bohemia as I entered into RP. Sorry for any confusion, and thanks to Matt for the quick catch.


Attached is the revised Spring 06 map. Cheers!


Trout

[Reply]

Heya folks,

Slight apology here. Looks as though I made a slight error in the Spring 06 adjudication. Germany ordered Munich to Silisia, not to Bohemia as I entered into RP. Sorry for any confusion, and thanks to Matt for the quick catch.


Attached is the revised Spring 06 map. Cheers!


Trout

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[Reply]

From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Guns, Germs and Steel 1264 / DC110 - Fall 1879 - Till the Fat Lady Sings...
To: sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com
Cc: "Cat23 1200 List" <Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com>, "dc110" <DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com>, "Rob Ackerley" <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca>, "David E Watson" <dipknight(at)comcast.net>, "Jerry Todd" <sgttodd(at)mainecav.org>, "Jim Atkins" <savwa4(at)comcast.net>, "Lee Taylor" <leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk>, "Mike Hoffman" <mrh(at)panix.com>, "Randolph" <ruffhaus8(at)aol.com>, "Rob Bristol" <rBristol(at)cargojet.com>, "Rob Bristol" <rbristol(at)cogeco.ca>, "Rudi Van Hal" <rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl>, "Rupert Armstrong" <writetorupert(at)gmail.com>, "Steve Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>, "Suzanne Castagne" <sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr>, "Ted Morley" <ee_morley(at)hotmail.com>, "Ted Morley" <Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov>
Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 12:43 AM

In clarification.
The pertinent part of my HRs is Section IX Paragraph (2) - which reads in part:

If, after a period of 4 game years, no Supply Centers have changed ownership, the GM reserves the right, after a warning is given, to declare a draw including all survivors...


The remainder of that paragraph is void in this instance, as I will enforce a DIAS if 4 game years elapse without centers changing hands.


Concerning the variant rules - unless any player has objection we will allow the optional rule of ending the game on Spring 1901. If this occurs, the game result will also be a DIAS.


Trout




On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 3:04 PM, Paolo Sforza <sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com ([email]sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:ec5fc8001d]
Hi Trout,

Just so we all know where we are then I formally ask the question.

This game can finish as a solo on 70 SCs - we all know that. No problem. It can also end as an n-way DRAW if such a proposal is unanimously passed. Again, no problem. All clear as crystal. However, as we could be heading towards game end, sooner rather than later, then exactly what criteria need to met and what duration do these criteria need to in place for you to call a DIAS? Is there an objective set of criteria for the DIAS that we play towards? There is an optional rule (is it in force?) that says '...the game will also end on Spring 1901 should no player possess the required number of supply centers'. The variant optional rule doesn't say what the result will be at game end. Just that the game will end. Is this also a DIAS?

Cheers and thanks,

Paolo.

--- On Thu, 10/30/08, Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Subject: Re: Guns, Germs and Steel 1264 / DC110 - Fall 1879 - Till the Fat Lady Sings...
To: sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com ([email]sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Cc: "Cat23 1200 List" <Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com ([email]Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com[/email])>, "dc110" <DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])>, "Rob Ackerley" <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>, "David E Watson" <dipknight(at)comcast.net ([email]dipknight(at)comcast.net[/email])>, "Jerry Todd" <sgttodd(at)mainecav.org ([email]sgttodd(at)mainecav.org[/email])>, "Jim Atkins" <savwa4(at)comcast.net ([email]savwa4(at)comcast.net[/email])>, "Lee Taylor" <leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk ([email]leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk[/email])>, "Mike Hoffman" <mrh(at)panix.com ([email]mrh(at)panix.com[/email])>, "Randolph" <ruffhaus8(at)aol.com ([email]ruffhaus8(at)aol.com[/email])>, "Rob Bristol" <rBristol(at)cargojet.com ([email]rBristol(at)cargojet.com[/email])>, "Rob Bristol" <rbristol(at)cogeco.ca ([email]rbristol(at)cogeco.ca[/email])>, "Rudi Van Hal" <rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl ([email]rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl[/email])>, "Rupert Armstrong" <writetorupert(at)gmail.com ([email]writetorupert(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "Steve Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "Suzanne Castagne" <sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr ([email]sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr[/email])>, "Ted Morley" <ee_morley(at)hotmail.com ([email]ee_morley(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "Ted Morley" <Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov ([email]Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov[/email])>
Date: Thursday, October 30, 2008, 3:52 PM

For the record.
Any players that do not wish to participate in this game are not held hostage to it. If you wish to abandon this game, please just let me know and I will find a replacement to finish the game off.
It will be labelled a game abandon, however, on the DC club stats. There is nothing I can do about that.
If any player has issues with my House Rules or my GMing style, I will be very happy to entertain your personal grievances in private.
Cheers!
Trout

On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Paolo Sforza <sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com ([email]sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:ec5fc8001d]
Hi guys,

I think I put in this 6-way for last turn, but just in case it is someone else's 6-way proposal, I'd better vote. YES, to the 6-way (China, France, Holland, Japan, Russia, USA) DRAW.

Everyone knows the stalemate line, so as long as it is maintained I shall be putting in this proposal every turn and voting down any other proposition. My family is very long lived so I should see the end. Assuming the House Rules are followed then this game should be over in 4 (L-O-N-G) game year's time when the GM calls a DIAS. I have to mention this now because I don't want this monster to go on a moment longer than necessary. If ANYONE has problems (I absolutely don't) with Steve sharing in this DIAS - so effectively making this a 7-way DRAW then they'd better call for his elimination NOW as this will be an SC change and so the 4-game year clock won't start ticking until after this elimination. If Rupert eliminates Steve in Spring and Rudi keeps voting down the 6-way then the game should end just after Spring 1883 - I make that 3 months (late January) based on how slowly this monstrosity has lurched forward so far (GAWD SAVE US!)

The House Rules say (God forbid we ever actually follow the House Rules, of course) that the movement turns could be a minimum of 2 days duration. If Trout would reduce to this duration AND/OR remove his prohibition on perpetual orders then we could get this nonsense over and done with in a couple of weeks (still far too long in my book).

Like I said, I think, once before. This is game is about as exciting as watching anti-climb paint dry. This is supposed to be a 'short' game as it only requires 70 SCs for a SOLO. Even that fudge can't make this enjoyable. Who the hell invents this crappy huge games, riddled with stalemate lines? Rhetorical question - I DON'T want to know anything more about Imperial2,

Just thought! If packrat is right and REing is the same as FWDing - I might be lucky enough to be replaced! Cor, there IS light at the end of the tunnel.

Cheers to all,

Paolo.





--- On Thu, 10/30/08, Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])> wrote:

From: Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>
Subject: Re: Guns, Germs and Steel 1264 / DC110 - Fall 1879 - Till the Fat Lady Sings...
To: "Former Trout" <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "Cat23 1200 List" <Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com ([email]Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com[/email])>, "dc110" <DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])>
Cc: "David E Watson" <dipknight(at)comcast.net ([email]dipknight(at)comcast.net[/email])>, "Jerry Todd" <sgttodd(at)mainecav.org ([email]sgttodd(at)mainecav.org[/email])>, "Jim Atkins" <savwa4(at)comcast.net ([email]savwa4(at)comcast.net[/email])>, "Lee Taylor" <leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk ([email]leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk[/email])>, "Mike Hoffman" <mrh(at)panix.com ([email]mrh(at)panix.com[/email])>, "Paolo Sforza" <sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com ([email]sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "Randolph" <ruffhaus8(at)aol.com ([email]ruffhaus8(at)aol.com[/email])>, "Rob Bristol" <rBristol(at)cargojet.com ([email]rBristol(at)cargojet.com[/email])>, "Rob Bristol" <rbristol(at)cogeco.ca ([email]rbristol(at)cogeco.ca[/email])>, "Rudi Van Hal" <rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl ([email]rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl[/email])>, "Rupert Armstrong" <writetorupert(at)gmail.com ([email]writetorupert(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "Steve Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "Suzanne Castagne" <sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr ([email]sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr[/email])>, "Ted Morley" <ee_morley(at)hotmail.com ([email]ee_morley(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "Ted Morley" <Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov ([email]Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov[/email])>
Date: Thursday, October 30, 2008, 12:55 PM

YES vote from Russia.

________________________________
From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Cat23 1200 List <Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com ([email]Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com[/email])>; dc110 <DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])>
Cc: David E Watson <dipknight(at)comcast.net ([email]dipknight(at)comcast.net[/email])>; Jerry Todd <sgttodd(at)mainecav.org ([email]sgttodd(at)mainecav.org[/email])>; Jim Atkins <savwa4(at)comcast.net ([email]savwa4(at)comcast.net[/email])>; Lee Taylor <leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk ([email]leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk[/email])>; Mike Hoffman <mrh(at)panix.com ([email]mrh(at)panix.com[/email])>; Paolo Sforza <sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com ([email]sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Randolph <ruffhaus8(at)aol.com ([email]ruffhaus8(at)aol.com[/email])>; Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; Rob Bristol <rBristol(at)cargojet.com ([email]rBristol(at)cargojet.com[/email])>; Rob Bristol <rbristol(at)cogeco.ca ([email]rbristol(at)cogeco.ca[/email])>; Rudi Van Hal <rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl ([email]rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl[/email])>; Rupert Armstrong <writetorupert(at)gmail.com ([email]writetorupert(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Steve Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Suzanne Castagne <sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr ([email]sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr[/email])>; Ted Morley <ee_morley(at)hotmail.com ([email]ee_morley(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Ted Morley <Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov ([email]Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov[/email])>
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 10:51:42 AM
Subject: Guns, Germs and Steel 1264 / DC110 - Fall 1879 - Till the Fat Lady Sings...

- TEMPERS FLARE AS WORLD REALIZES ... IT AIN'T OVER!!
- MEAT TENDERIZERS AND ATHLETIC CUPS FLY OFF SHELVES WORLD-WIDE

Okie. Lets all sit around the fire and have a short talk.

Some of you wish to end this game. I absolutely understand that. But despite how crazy it sounds to some, there are those of you who do NOT wish it to end. At least, not at this point.

This is a monster. We all knew it was a monster when we signed up to play. And the fact that its gone on for quite some time has not changed the truth in any way that this game remains a monster. What we have left with is a very good group of players that all have strong wills and personalities... And a board that seems locked to some but that still actually has quite a lot of play in it.

Please do not be discouraged that, if you are one of those wanting the game to end, that it is not - in fact - ending. =P

But okay - enough blabber from me. Fall rolls around and find Holland undergoing a massive withdrawal and reorganization in the south. China continues to get gobbled up and the British in exile suddenly find two thirds of their town halls waving American flags.

The Dutch solo proposal is kicked under the table meeting defeat. In the meanwhile, a new 6-way draw (US/France/Russia/Holland/Japan/China) is proposed. Please have your yay or nay votes on that submitted to me by the Winter 1879 deadline of Saturday, November 1st (11:59 PM GMT).

Strap on those cups, gentlemen. The time-clock hasn't quite run out. =P

Cheers!

Trout

Movement results for Fall of 1879. (1879 FALL)

China: A Manchuria (mac) Supports A Mongolia (mon) - Inner Mongolia (img).
China: A Mongolia (mon) - Inner Mongolia (img).

France: F Adriatic Sea (adr) Supports F Greece (gre).
France: F The Azores (azo) Supports F Bay of Biscay (bob).
France: F Bay of Biscay (bob) Supports F Nantes (nan).
France: A Berlin (ber) Supports A Kiel (kie).
France: A Bosnia (bos) Supports F Greece (gre).
France: A Brasilia (bra) Supports F Recife (rec).
France: F Brazil Current (bcu) Supports F South Georgia Islands (sgr).
France: F Cameroon (cmn) Supports F Okrana (okn).
France: F Canary Seaway(cny) Supports F Cape Verde Islands (vrd).
France: F Cape Verde Islands (vrd) Supports F Canary Seaway(cny).
France: F Coast of Argentina (cag) Supports F Brazil Current (bcu).
France: F Drake (dra) Supports F Brazil Current (bcu).
France: F Falkland Islands (fal) Supports F Drake (dra).
France: A Galicia (gal) Supports A Sevastopol (sev).
France: A Goyamas (goy) - Cochabamba (coh).
France: F Grain Coast (gcs) Supports F Middle Atlantic (mat).
France: F Greece (gre) Supports A Bosnia (bos).
France: F Gulf of Guinea (gog) Supports F Okrana (okn).
France: F Gulf of Lyon (lyo) - Gibraltar (gib) (*Fails*).
France: F Holland (hol) Supports A Rouen (rou).
France: F Ionian Sea (ion) - Sicily (sic).
France: A Kiel (kie) Supports A Berlin (ber).
France: A La Paz (lpa) Supports A Brasilia (bra).
France: F Middle Atlantic (mat) Supports F Recife (rec).
France: F Nantes (nan) Supports F Bay of Biscay (bob).
France: F Okrana (okn) Supports F Gulf of Guinea (gog).
France: A Paris (par) Supports F Nantes (nan).
France: A Quito (qto) Supports A La Paz (lpa).
France: F Recife (rec) Supports F Middle Atlantic (mat).
France: A Rio de Janeiro (rdj) Supports F Recife (rec).
France: A Rouen (rou) Supports F Holland (hol).
France: A Ruhr (ruh) Supports A Kiel (kie).
France: A Rumania (rum) Supports A Sevastopol (sev).
France: A Serbia (ser) Supports A Bosnia (bos).
France: A Silesia (sil) Supports A Berlin (ber).
France: F South Georgia Islands (sgr) Supports F Brazil Current (bcu).
France: A Stuttgart (stu) Supports A Kiel (kie).
France: A Tawarek (twr) Supports F Tripoli (trp).
France: F Tripoli (trp) Supports A Tunis (tun) (*Cut*).
France: A Tunis (tun) Supports F Tripoli (trp).
France: F Tyrrhenian Sea (tys) Supports A Tunis (tun).
France: A Wallacia (wlc) Supports A Rumania (rum).

Holland: F Angola (agl) - South Atlantic (sat) (*Bounce*).
Holland: F Angora (ang)(nc) Supports F Black Sea (bla).
Holland: F Antarctic Atlantic Ocean (aat) - Goodhope (goo).
Holland: F Antarctic Indian Ocean(ain) Supports F Antarctic Atlantic Ocean
(aat) (*Ordered to Move*).
Holland: F Antarctic Pacific Ocean(apa) - Barrier Sea (brr).
Holland: A Armenia (arm) - Tabrize (tbr).
Holland: A Assam (asm) - Yunnan (yun).
Holland: A Aswan (asw) - Fezz (fzz) (*Fails*).
Holland: A Baku (bku) - Georgia (geo).
Holland: F Barrier Sea (brr) - New South Wales (nsw).
Holland: F Bismark Sea (bis) - Izu Trench (izu) (*Fails*).
Holland: F Black Sea (bla) Convoys A Sevastopol (sev) - Baku (bku) (*Void*).
Holland: A Bokhara (bkh) - Kasala (ksl).
Holland: A Cairo (cai) Supports F Tubruq (tbq).
Holland: A Canton (can) Supports F Hong Kong (hko) - Fuchan (fuc).
Holland: F Caroline Islands (crl) Supports F Bismark Sea (bis) - Izu Trench
(izu) (*Fails*).
Holland: A Congo (cng) Supports F Angola (agl) (*Ordered to Move*).
Holland: F Constantinople (con) Supports A Sofia (sof).
Holland: F Coral Sea (cor) - Queensland (qnl).
Holland: F Crete (cre) - Ionian Sea (ion).
Holland: F Cyprus (cyp) - Eastern Mediterranean (eas).
Holland: F Damaraland (dml) - South Atlantic (sat) (*Bounce*).
Holland: A Dar Es Sallam (dar) Supports A Aswan (asw) - Fezz (fzz) (*Fails*).
Holland: F East China Sea (ecs) - Shanghai (sha).
Holland: F Eastern Mediterranean (eas) - Aegean Sea (aeg).
Holland: F Equatorial CounterCurrent (eco) - Bismark Sea (bis) (*Fails*).
Holland: A Evenki (eve) - Yakutsk (yak).
Holland: A Fezz (fzz) - Tripoli (trp) (*Fails*).
Holland: F Fiji (fij) - Coral Sea (cor).
Holland: F Formosa (for) Hold.
Holland: F Goodhope (goo) - West Indian (win).
Holland: F Hong Kong (hko) - Fuchan (fuc).
Holland: A Inner Mongolia (img) Supports A Irkutsk (irk) - Vladivostok (vla)
(*Disbanded*).
Holland: A Irkutsk (irk) - Vladivostok (vla) (*Fails*).
Holland: F Izu Trench (izu) - Kagoshima (kag) (*Fails*).
Holland: A Karachi (krc) - Bokhara (bkh).
Holland: A Kashgar (ksg) - Kirghiz (kir).
Holland: A Kirghiz (kir) - Mongolia (mon).
Holland: A Krasnoyarsk (kra) - Evenki (eve).
Holland: A Langchow (lch) Supports A Kirghiz (kir) - Mongolia (mon).
Holland: F Luzon (luz) Supports F Philippine (phi).
Holland: F Luzon Sea (lus) - Mindanao (mnd).
Holland: F Marshal Islands (mhl) Supports F West Pacific (wpa).
Holland: F New Guinea (ngu) - Timor (tim).
Holland: F New Zealand (nzl) - Tasman (tas).
Holland: F Okinawa (oki) Supports F Bismark Sea (bis) - Izu Trench (izu)
(*Fails*).
Holland: A Omsk (oms) Supports A Baku (bku) - Georgia (geo).
Holland: A Orenburg (orn) Supports A Baku (bku) - Georgia (geo).
Holland: F Philippine (phi) Supports F Bismark Sea (bis) - Izu Trench (izu)
(*Fails*).
Holland: F Shanghai (sha) - Peking (pek).
Holland: A Sinkiang (snk) Supports A Yunnan (yun) - Chungking (chk).
Holland: A Sofia (sof) Hold.
Holland: F South Atlantic (sat) - Cape Town (ctn).
Holland: F South China Sea (scs) Hold.
Holland: F South West Pacific (swp) - Equatorial CounterCurrent (eco) (*Fails*).
Holland: F Syria (syr)(wc) Supports F Cyprus (cyp) - Eastern Mediterranean
(eas).
Holland: A Tashkent (tsh) - Krasnoyarsk (kra).
Holland: A Tibet (tib) - Kashgar (ksg).
Holland: A Tonkin (tnk) Supports A Canton (can).
Holland: F Tubruq (tbq) Supports F Crete (cre) - Ionian Sea (ion).
Holland: F West Pacific (wpa) Supports F Kuril (kur) (*Ordered to Move*).
Holland: A Wuhan (wuh) Supports F Shanghai (sha) - Peking (pek).
Holland: A Yunnan (yun) - Chungking (chk).

Japan: F Edo (edo) Supports F Bering Sea (bse) - Kuril (kur).
Japan: F Fusan (fsn) Supports F Yellow Sea (yse).
Japan: F Kagoshima (kag) Supports F Yellow Sea (yse) (*Cut*).
Japan: F Kuril (kur) - Sapporo (sap).
Japan: F Port Arthur (poa) Supports A Manchuria (mac).
Japan: F Sea of Japan (soj) Supports F Yellow Sea (yse).
Japan: F Seoul (seo)(wc) Supports F Yellow Sea (yse).
Japan: A Vladivostok (vla) Hold.
Japan: F Yellow Sea (yse) Hold.

Russia: A Warsaw (war) Supports A Sevastopol (sev).
Russia: A Perm (prm) Supports A Moscow (mos).
Russia: A Sevastopol (sev) Supports A Moscow (mos).
Russia: A Moscow (mos) Supports A Perm (prm).

USA: A Alaska (ala) Hold.
USA: A Amazon (ama) Supports A Pramaiba (pra).
USA: F Baltic Sea (bal) Supports F North Sea (nth) - Denmark (den).
USA: A Barcelone (brc) Supports A Amazon (ama).
USA: F Barents Sea (bar) - Norway (nwy).
USA: F Bering Sea (bse) - Kuril (kur).
USA: A Caledonia (cld) Supports A Pramaiba (pra).
USA: F Cayenne (cyn) Supports F North East Trades (net).
USA: F Chesapeake Approaches (che) Supports F North Atlantic (nat).
USA: F Chilean Basin (cba) Supports F Drake (dra).
USA: F Counter Current (ccu) Supports F Hawaii (haw).
USA: F Denmark (den) - Sweden (swe).
USA: F Eastern Carribean (eca) Supports F Sargasso (sar).
USA: F Eastern Pacific (epa) Supports F Kirbati Sea (kse).
USA: F Eastern Seaboard (ese) Supports F North Atlantic (nat).
USA: F Finland (fin)(nc) Supports A St Petersburg (stp).
USA: F Gulf of Bothnia (bot) Supports F Baltic Sea (bal).
USA: F Hawaii (haw) Supports F Kirbati Sea (kse).
USA: F Helgoland Bight (hel) Supports F Norwegian Sea (nwg) - North Sea (nth).
USA: F Hudson (hud) Hold.
USA: F Kamchatka (kam) Supports F Bering Sea (bse) - Kuril (kur).
USA: F Kirbati Sea (kse) Hold.
USA: A Lima (lim) Supports A Amazon (ama).
USA: A Livonia (lvn) Supports A Moscow (mos).
USA: F North Atlantic (nat) Hold.
USA: F North East Trades (net) Hold.
USA: F North Pacific (npa) Supports F Westerlies (wst).
USA: F North Sea (nth) - Denmark (den).
USA: F Norwegian Sea (nwg) - North Sea (nth).
USA: F Nova Scotia (nsc) Supports F North Atlantic (nat).
USA: F Okhotsk (okh) Supports A Vladivostok (vla).
USA: F Pacific Basin (pba) Supports F Chilean Basin (cba).
USA: A Pramaiba (pra) Supports A Amazon (ama).
USA: A Ruperts Land (rla) Hold.
USA: F Sargasso (sar) Hold.
USA: F Society Islands (sct) Supports F South Pacific (spa).
USA: F South Pacific (spa) Hold.
USA: A St Petersburg (stp) Supports A Perm (prm).
USA: F Virgin Islands (vis) Supports F Sargasso (sar).
USA: F Westerlies (wst) Supports F Bering Sea (bse) - Kuril (kur).

Unit locations:

China: A Inner Mongolia (img), A Manchuria (mac).
France: F Adriatic Sea (adr), F The Azores (azo), F Bay of Biscay (bob), A
Berlin (ber), A Bosnia (bos), A Brasilia (bra), F Brazil Current
(bcu), F Cameroon (cmn), F Canary Seaway(cny), F Cape Verde Islands
(vrd), F Coast of Argentina (cag), A Cochabamba (coh), F Drake (dra),
F Falkland Islands (fal), A Galicia (gal), F Grain Coast (gcs), F
Greece (gre), F Gulf of Guinea (gog), F Gulf of Lyon (lyo), F Holland
(hol), A Kiel (kie), A La Paz (lpa), F Middle Atlantic (mat), F Nantes
(nan), F Okrana (okn), A Paris (par), A Quito (qto), F Recife (rec), A
Rio de Janeiro (rdj), A Rouen (rou), A Ruhr (ruh), A Rumania (rum), A
Serbia (ser), F Sicily (sic), A Silesia (sil), F South Georgia Islands
(sgr), A Stuttgart (stu), A Tawarek (twr), F Tripoli (trp), A Tunis
(tun), F Tyrrhenian Sea (tys), A Wallacia (wlc).
Holland: F Aegean Sea (aeg), F Angola (agl), F Angora (ang)(nc), F Antarctic
Indian Ocean(ain), A Aswan (asw), F Barrier Sea (brr), F Bismark Sea
(bis), F Black Sea (bla), A Bokhara (bkh), A Cairo (cai), A Canton
(can), F Cape Town (ctn), F Caroline Islands (crl), A Chungking (chk),
A Congo (cng), F Constantinople (con), F Coral Sea (cor), F Damaraland
(dml), A Dar Es Sallam (dar), F Eastern Mediterranean (eas), F
Equatorial CounterCurrent (eco), A Evenki (eve), A Fezz (fzz), F
Formosa (for), F Fuchan (fuc), A Georgia (geo), F Goodhope (goo), A
Inner Mongolia (img), F Ionian Sea (ion), A Irkutsk (irk), F Izu
Trench (izu), A Kasala (ksl), A Kashgar (ksg), A Kirghiz (kir), A
Krasnoyarsk (kra), A Langchow (lch), F Luzon (luz), F Marshal Islands
(mhl), F Mindanao (mnd), A Mongolia (mon), F New South Wales (nsw), F
Okinawa (oki), A Omsk (oms), A Orenburg (orn), F Peking (pek), F
Philippine (phi), F Queensland (qnl), F Shanghai (sha), A Sinkiang
(snk), A Sofia (sof), F South China Sea (scs), F South West Pacific
(swp), F Syria (syr)(wc), A Tabrize (tbr), F Tasman (tas), F Timor
(tim), A Tonkin (tnk), F Tubruq (tbq), F West Indian (win), F West
Pacific (wpa), A Wuhan (wuh), A Yakutsk (yak), A Yunnan (yun).
Japan: F Edo (edo), F Fusan (fsn), F Kagoshima (kag), F Port Arthur (poa), F
Sapporo (sap), F Sea of Japan (soj), F Seoul (seo)(wc), A Vladivostok
(vla), F Yellow Sea (yse).
Russia: A Warsaw (war), A Perm (prm), A Sevastopol (sev), A Moscow (mos).
USA: A Alaska (ala), A Amazon (ama), F Baltic Sea (bal), A Barcelone (brc),
A Caledonia (cld), F Cayenne (cyn), F Chesapeake Approaches (che), F
Chilean Basin (cba), F Counter Current (ccu), F Denmark (den), F
Eastern Carribean (eca), F Eastern Pacific (epa), F Eastern Seaboard
(ese), F Finland (fin)(nc), F Gulf of Bothnia (bot), F Hawaii (haw), F
Helgoland Bight (hel), F Hudson (hud), F Kamchatka (kam), F Kirbati
Sea (kse), F Kuril (kur), A Lima (lim), A Livonia (lvn), F North
Atlantic (nat), F North East Trades (net), F North Pacific (npa), F
North Sea (nth), F Norway (nwy), F Nova Scotia (nsc), F Okhotsk (okh),
F Pacific Basin (pba), A Pramaiba (pra), A Ruperts Land (rla), F
Sargasso (sar), F Society Islands (sct), F South Pacific (spa), A St
Petersburg (stp), F Sweden (swe), F Virgin Islands (vis), F Westerlies
(wst).

Ownership of supply centers:

Britain: Greenland (grn).
China: Manchuria (mac).
France: The Azores (azo), Bavaria (bav), Berlin (ber), Brasilia (bra),
Budapest (bud), Cameroon (cmn), Cape Verde Islands (vrd), Corsica
(crs), Crete (cre), Croatia (cro), Falkland Islands (fal), Gibraltar
(gib), Grain Coast (gcs), Greece (gre), Holland (hol), Ivory Coast
(ivc), Kiel (kie), La Paz (lpa), Marseilles (mar), Monrovia (mnv),
Morocco (mrc), Nantes (nan), Okrana (okn), Oliveira (oli), Paraguay
(prg), Paris (par), Piedmont (pie), Recife (rec), Rio de Janeiro
(rdj), Rome (rom), Ruhr (ruh), Rumania (rum), Salerno (sal), Serbia
(ser), Sicily (sic), Sierra Leone (sie), Silesia (sil), South Georgia
Islands (sgr), Stuttgart (stu), Tripoli (trp), Tunis (tun), Uruguay
(uru), Valencia (vlc), Venice (ven), Vienna (vie).
Holland: Abyssinia (aby), Aden (ade), Andaman Islands (amn), Angora (ang),
Baghdad (bag), Baku (bku), Bangalore (ban), Bangkok (bnk), Bengal
(ben), Bombay (bom), Borneo (brn), Botswana (bsw), Burma (brm), Cairo
(cai), Cambodia (cmb), Canton (can), Cape Town (ctn), Caroline Islands
(crl), Ceylon (cey), Chungking (chk), Cochin (cch), Constantinople
(con), Cyprus (cyp), Delhi (del), Fiji (fij), Formosa (for), Georgia
(geo), Hong Kong (hko), Irian Java (ija), Irkutsk (irk), Java (jav),
Karachi (krc), Kashmir (kas), Khiva (khv), Luzon (luz), Madagascar
(mad), Madras (mds), Malaysia (mal), Maldives (mld), Marshal Islands
(mhl), Mindanao (mnd), New Guinea (ngu), New South Wales (nsw), New
Zealand (nzl), Okinawa (oki), Oman (oma), Omsk (oms), Orenburg (orn),
Peking (pek), Perth (per), Queensland (qnl), Rangoon (rng), Rhodesia
(rho), Sarawak (srw), Seychelles (sey), Shanghai (sha), Singapore
(sin), Sinkiang (snk), Sofia (sof), Sudan (sud), Sumatra (sum),
Tashkent (tsh), Tehran (teh), Tonkin (tnk), Transvaal (trn), Wuhan
(wuh), Yuthia (yut).
Japan: Edo (edo), Fusan (fsn), Kagoshima (kag), Port Arthur (poa), Sakhurlin
(sak), Sapporo (sap), Seoul (seo), Vladivostok (vla).
Russia: Warsaw (war), Prussia (pru), Sevastopol (sev), Moscow (mos).
USA: Alberta (alb), Anchorage (anc), Atlanta (atl), Austin (aus), The
Bahamas (bah), Barcelone (brc), Bogota (bgt), Cayenne (cyn), Chicago
(chc), Cuba (cub), Denmark (den), Detroit (det), Dublin (dub),
Edinburgh (edi), Galapagos (glp), Haiti (hai), Hawaii (haw), Honduras
(hon), Kansas (kan), Lima (lim), London (lon), Mazatlan (maz), Merida
(mer), Mexico City (mex), Nebraska (neb), New Mexico (nme), New
Orleans (nol), New York (nyc), Norway (nwy), Nova Scotia (nsc),
Oklahoma (okl), Oregon (ore), Panama (pan), Paramaribo (pmb), Quebec
(que), Richmond (ric), San Francisco (sfo), Seattle (sea), Society
Islands (sct), St Petersburg (stp), Sweden (swe), Vancouver (van),
Victoria (vic), Virgin Islands (vis), Washington DC (wdc), Yukon (yuk).

Austria: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
Brazil: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
Britain: 1 Supply center , 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
China: 1 Supply center , 2 Units: Removes 1 unit.
CSA: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
France: 45 Supply centers, 42 Units: Builds 3 units.
Holland: 67 Supply centers, 63 Units: Builds 4 units.
Japan: 8 Supply centers, 9 Units: Removes 1 unit.
Mexico: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
Prussia: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
Russia: 4 Supply centers, 4 Units: Builds 0 units.
Turkey: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
USA: 46 Supply centers, 40 Units: Builds 6 units.


NEXT DEADLINE: WINTER 1879 ADJUSTMENTS DUE SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 1ST (11:59 PM GMT)!!






________________________________
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[Reply]

From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Guns, Germs and Steel 1264 / DC110 - Fall 1879 - Till the Fat Lady Sings...
To: sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com
Cc: "Cat23 1200 List" <Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com>, "dc110" <DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com>, "Rob Ackerley" <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca>, "David E Watson" <dipknight(at)comcast.net>, "Jerry Todd" <sgttodd(at)mainecav.org>, "Jim Atkins" <savwa4(at)comcast.net>, "Lee Taylor" <leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk>, "Mike Hoffman" <mrh(at)panix.com>, "Randolph" <ruffhaus8(at)aol.com>, "Rob Bristol" <rBristol(at)cargojet.com>, "Rob Bristol" <rbristol(at)cogeco.ca>, "Rudi Van Hal" <rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl>, "Rupert Armstrong" <writetorupert(at)gmail.com>, "Steve Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>, "Suzanne Castagne" <sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr>, "Ted Morley" <ee_morley(at)hotmail.com>, "Ted Morley" <Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov>
Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 12:43 AM

In clarification.
The pertinent part of my HRs is Section IX Paragraph (2) - which reads in part:

If, after a period of 4 game years, no Supply Centers have changed ownership, the GM reserves the right, after a warning is given, to declare a draw including all survivors...


The remainder of that paragraph is void in this instance, as I will enforce a DIAS if 4 game years elapse without centers changing hands.


Concerning the variant rules - unless any player has objection we will allow the optional rule of ending the game on Spring 1901. If this occurs, the game result will also be a DIAS.


Trout




On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 3:04 PM, Paolo Sforza <sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com ([email]sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:1161a1712c]
Hi Trout,

Just so we all know where we are then I formally ask the question.

This game can finish as a solo on 70 SCs - we all know that. No problem. It can also end as an n-way DRAW if such a proposal is unanimously passed. Again, no problem. All clear as crystal. However, as we could be heading towards game end, sooner rather than later, then exactly what criteria need to met and what duration do these criteria need to in place for you to call a DIAS? Is there an objective set of criteria for the DIAS that we play towards? There is an optional rule (is it in force?) that says '...the game will also end on Spring 1901 should no player possess the required number of supply centers'. The variant optional rule doesn't say what the result will be at game end. Just that the game will end. Is this also a DIAS?

Cheers and thanks,

Paolo.

--- On Thu, 10/30/08, Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Subject: Re: Guns, Germs and Steel 1264 / DC110 - Fall 1879 - Till the Fat Lady Sings...
To: sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com ([email]sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Cc: "Cat23 1200 List" <Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com ([email]Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com[/email])>, "dc110" <DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])>, "Rob Ackerley" <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>, "David E Watson" <dipknight(at)comcast.net ([email]dipknight(at)comcast.net[/email])>, "Jerry Todd" <sgttodd(at)mainecav.org ([email]sgttodd(at)mainecav.org[/email])>, "Jim Atkins" <savwa4(at)comcast.net ([email]savwa4(at)comcast.net[/email])>, "Lee Taylor" <leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk ([email]leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk[/email])>, "Mike Hoffman" <mrh(at)panix.com ([email]mrh(at)panix.com[/email])>, "Randolph" <ruffhaus8(at)aol.com ([email]ruffhaus8(at)aol.com[/email])>, "Rob Bristol" <rBristol(at)cargojet.com ([email]rBristol(at)cargojet.com[/email])>, "Rob Bristol" <rbristol(at)cogeco.ca ([email]rbristol(at)cogeco.ca[/email])>, "Rudi Van Hal" <rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl ([email]rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl[/email])>, "Rupert Armstrong" <writetorupert(at)gmail.com ([email]writetorupert(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "Steve Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "Suzanne Castagne" <sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr ([email]sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr[/email])>, "Ted Morley" <ee_morley(at)hotmail.com ([email]ee_morley(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "Ted Morley" <Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov ([email]Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov[/email])>
Date: Thursday, October 30, 2008, 3:52 PM

For the record.
Any players that do not wish to participate in this game are not held hostage to it. If you wish to abandon this game, please just let me know and I will find a replacement to finish the game off.
It will be labelled a game abandon, however, on the DC club stats. There is nothing I can do about that.
If any player has issues with my House Rules or my GMing style, I will be very happy to entertain your personal grievances in private.
Cheers!
Trout

On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Paolo Sforza <sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com ([email]sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:1161a1712c]
Hi guys,

I think I put in this 6-way for last turn, but just in case it is someone else's 6-way proposal, I'd better vote. YES, to the 6-way (China, France, Holland, Japan, Russia, USA) DRAW.

Everyone knows the stalemate line, so as long as it is maintained I shall be putting in this proposal every turn and voting down any other proposition. My family is very long lived so I should see the end. Assuming the House Rules are followed then this game should be over in 4 (L-O-N-G) game year's time when the GM calls a DIAS. I have to mention this now because I don't want this monster to go on a moment longer than necessary. If ANYONE has problems (I absolutely don't) with Steve sharing in this DIAS - so effectively making this a 7-way DRAW then they'd better call for his elimination NOW as this will be an SC change and so the 4-game year clock won't start ticking until after this elimination. If Rupert eliminates Steve in Spring and Rudi keeps voting down the 6-way then the game should end just after Spring 1883 - I make that 3 months (late January) based on how slowly this monstrosity has lurched forward so far (GAWD SAVE US!)

The House Rules say (God forbid we ever actually follow the House Rules, of course) that the movement turns could be a minimum of 2 days duration. If Trout would reduce to this duration AND/OR remove his prohibition on perpetual orders then we could get this nonsense over and done with in a couple of weeks (still far too long in my book).

Like I said, I think, once before. This is game is about as exciting as watching anti-climb paint dry. This is supposed to be a 'short' game as it only requires 70 SCs for a SOLO. Even that fudge can't make this enjoyable. Who the hell invents this crappy huge games, riddled with stalemate lines? Rhetorical question - I DON'T want to know anything more about Imperial2,

Just thought! If packrat is right and REing is the same as FWDing - I might be lucky enough to be replaced! Cor, there IS light at the end of the tunnel.

Cheers to all,

Paolo.





--- On Thu, 10/30/08, Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])> wrote:

From: Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>
Subject: Re: Guns, Germs and Steel 1264 / DC110 - Fall 1879 - Till the Fat Lady Sings...
To: "Former Trout" <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "Cat23 1200 List" <Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com ([email]Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com[/email])>, "dc110" <DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])>
Cc: "David E Watson" <dipknight(at)comcast.net ([email]dipknight(at)comcast.net[/email])>, "Jerry Todd" <sgttodd(at)mainecav.org ([email]sgttodd(at)mainecav.org[/email])>, "Jim Atkins" <savwa4(at)comcast.net ([email]savwa4(at)comcast.net[/email])>, "Lee Taylor" <leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk ([email]leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk[/email])>, "Mike Hoffman" <mrh(at)panix.com ([email]mrh(at)panix.com[/email])>, "Paolo Sforza" <sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com ([email]sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "Randolph" <ruffhaus8(at)aol.com ([email]ruffhaus8(at)aol.com[/email])>, "Rob Bristol" <rBristol(at)cargojet.com ([email]rBristol(at)cargojet.com[/email])>, "Rob Bristol" <rbristol(at)cogeco.ca ([email]rbristol(at)cogeco.ca[/email])>, "Rudi Van Hal" <rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl ([email]rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl[/email])>, "Rupert Armstrong" <writetorupert(at)gmail.com ([email]writetorupert(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "Steve Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "Suzanne Castagne" <sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr ([email]sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr[/email])>, "Ted Morley" <ee_morley(at)hotmail.com ([email]ee_morley(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "Ted Morley" <Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov ([email]Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov[/email])>
Date: Thursday, October 30, 2008, 12:55 PM

YES vote from Russia.

________________________________
From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Cat23 1200 List <Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com ([email]Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com[/email])>; dc110 <DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])>
Cc: David E Watson <dipknight(at)comcast.net ([email]dipknight(at)comcast.net[/email])>; Jerry Todd <sgttodd(at)mainecav.org ([email]sgttodd(at)mainecav.org[/email])>; Jim Atkins <savwa4(at)comcast.net ([email]savwa4(at)comcast.net[/email])>; Lee Taylor <leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk ([email]leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk[/email])>; Mike Hoffman <mrh(at)panix.com ([email]mrh(at)panix.com[/email])>; Paolo Sforza <sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com ([email]sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Randolph <ruffhaus8(at)aol.com ([email]ruffhaus8(at)aol.com[/email])>; Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; Rob Bristol <rBristol(at)cargojet.com ([email]rBristol(at)cargojet.com[/email])>; Rob Bristol <rbristol(at)cogeco.ca ([email]rbristol(at)cogeco.ca[/email])>; Rudi Van Hal <rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl ([email]rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl[/email])>; Rupert Armstrong <writetorupert(at)gmail.com ([email]writetorupert(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Steve Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Suzanne Castagne <sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr ([email]sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr[/email])>; Ted Morley <ee_morley(at)hotmail.com ([email]ee_morley(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Ted Morley <Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov ([email]Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov[/email])>
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 10:51:42 AM
Subject: Guns, Germs and Steel 1264 / DC110 - Fall 1879 - Till the Fat Lady Sings...

- TEMPERS FLARE AS WORLD REALIZES ... IT AIN'T OVER!!
- MEAT TENDERIZERS AND ATHLETIC CUPS FLY OFF SHELVES WORLD-WIDE

Okie. Lets all sit around the fire and have a short talk.

Some of you wish to end this game. I absolutely understand that. But despite how crazy it sounds to some, there are those of you who do NOT wish it to end. At least, not at this point.

This is a monster. We all knew it was a monster when we signed up to play. And the fact that its gone on for quite some time has not changed the truth in any way that this game remains a monster. What we have left with is a very good group of players that all have strong wills and personalities... And a board that seems locked to some but that still actually has quite a lot of play in it.

Please do not be discouraged that, if you are one of those wanting the game to end, that it is not - in fact - ending. =P

But okay - enough blabber from me. Fall rolls around and find Holland undergoing a massive withdrawal and reorganization in the south. China continues to get gobbled up and the British in exile suddenly find two thirds of their town halls waving American flags.

The Dutch solo proposal is kicked under the table meeting defeat. In the meanwhile, a new 6-way draw (US/France/Russia/Holland/Japan/China) is proposed. Please have your yay or nay votes on that submitted to me by the Winter 1879 deadline of Saturday, November 1st (11:59 PM GMT).

Strap on those cups, gentlemen. The time-clock hasn't quite run out. =P

Cheers!

Trout

Movement results for Fall of 1879. (1879 FALL)

China: A Manchuria (mac) Supports A Mongolia (mon) - Inner Mongolia (img).
China: A Mongolia (mon) - Inner Mongolia (img).

France: F Adriatic Sea (adr) Supports F Greece (gre).
France: F The Azores (azo) Supports F Bay of Biscay (bob).
France: F Bay of Biscay (bob) Supports F Nantes (nan).
France: A Berlin (ber) Supports A Kiel (kie).
France: A Bosnia (bos) Supports F Greece (gre).
France: A Brasilia (bra) Supports F Recife (rec).
France: F Brazil Current (bcu) Supports F South Georgia Islands (sgr).
France: F Cameroon (cmn) Supports F Okrana (okn).
France: F Canary Seaway(cny) Supports F Cape Verde Islands (vrd).
France: F Cape Verde Islands (vrd) Supports F Canary Seaway(cny).
France: F Coast of Argentina (cag) Supports F Brazil Current (bcu).
France: F Drake (dra) Supports F Brazil Current (bcu).
France: F Falkland Islands (fal) Supports F Drake (dra).
France: A Galicia (gal) Supports A Sevastopol (sev).
France: A Goyamas (goy) - Cochabamba (coh).
France: F Grain Coast (gcs) Supports F Middle Atlantic (mat).
France: F Greece (gre) Supports A Bosnia (bos).
France: F Gulf of Guinea (gog) Supports F Okrana (okn).
France: F Gulf of Lyon (lyo) - Gibraltar (gib) (*Fails*).
France: F Holland (hol) Supports A Rouen (rou).
France: F Ionian Sea (ion) - Sicily (sic).
France: A Kiel (kie) Supports A Berlin (ber).
France: A La Paz (lpa) Supports A Brasilia (bra).
France: F Middle Atlantic (mat) Supports F Recife (rec).
France: F Nantes (nan) Supports F Bay of Biscay (bob).
France: F Okrana (okn) Supports F Gulf of Guinea (gog).
France: A Paris (par) Supports F Nantes (nan).
France: A Quito (qto) Supports A La Paz (lpa).
France: F Recife (rec) Supports F Middle Atlantic (mat).
France: A Rio de Janeiro (rdj) Supports F Recife (rec).
France: A Rouen (rou) Supports F Holland (hol).
France: A Ruhr (ruh) Supports A Kiel (kie).
France: A Rumania (rum) Supports A Sevastopol (sev).
France: A Serbia (ser) Supports A Bosnia (bos).
France: A Silesia (sil) Supports A Berlin (ber).
France: F South Georgia Islands (sgr) Supports F Brazil Current (bcu).
France: A Stuttgart (stu) Supports A Kiel (kie).
France: A Tawarek (twr) Supports F Tripoli (trp).
France: F Tripoli (trp) Supports A Tunis (tun) (*Cut*).
France: A Tunis (tun) Supports F Tripoli (trp).
France: F Tyrrhenian Sea (tys) Supports A Tunis (tun).
France: A Wallacia (wlc) Supports A Rumania (rum).

Holland: F Angola (agl) - South Atlantic (sat) (*Bounce*).
Holland: F Angora (ang)(nc) Supports F Black Sea (bla).
Holland: F Antarctic Atlantic Ocean (aat) - Goodhope (goo).
Holland: F Antarctic Indian Ocean(ain) Supports F Antarctic Atlantic Ocean
(aat) (*Ordered to Move*).
Holland: F Antarctic Pacific Ocean(apa) - Barrier Sea (brr).
Holland: A Armenia (arm) - Tabrize (tbr).
Holland: A Assam (asm) - Yunnan (yun).
Holland: A Aswan (asw) - Fezz (fzz) (*Fails*).
Holland: A Baku (bku) - Georgia (geo).
Holland: F Barrier Sea (brr) - New South Wales (nsw).
Holland: F Bismark Sea (bis) - Izu Trench (izu) (*Fails*).
Holland: F Black Sea (bla) Convoys A Sevastopol (sev) - Baku (bku) (*Void*).
Holland: A Bokhara (bkh) - Kasala (ksl).
Holland: A Cairo (cai) Supports F Tubruq (tbq).
Holland: A Canton (can) Supports F Hong Kong (hko) - Fuchan (fuc).
Holland: F Caroline Islands (crl) Supports F Bismark Sea (bis) - Izu Trench
(izu) (*Fails*).
Holland: A Congo (cng) Supports F Angola (agl) (*Ordered to Move*).
Holland: F Constantinople (con) Supports A Sofia (sof).
Holland: F Coral Sea (cor) - Queensland (qnl).
Holland: F Crete (cre) - Ionian Sea (ion).
Holland: F Cyprus (cyp) - Eastern Mediterranean (eas).
Holland: F Damaraland (dml) - South Atlantic (sat) (*Bounce*).
Holland: A Dar Es Sallam (dar) Supports A Aswan (asw) - Fezz (fzz) (*Fails*).
Holland: F East China Sea (ecs) - Shanghai (sha).
Holland: F Eastern Mediterranean (eas) - Aegean Sea (aeg).
Holland: F Equatorial CounterCurrent (eco) - Bismark Sea (bis) (*Fails*).
Holland: A Evenki (eve) - Yakutsk (yak).
Holland: A Fezz (fzz) - Tripoli (trp) (*Fails*).
Holland: F Fiji (fij) - Coral Sea (cor).
Holland: F Formosa (for) Hold.
Holland: F Goodhope (goo) - West Indian (win).
Holland: F Hong Kong (hko) - Fuchan (fuc).
Holland: A Inner Mongolia (img) Supports A Irkutsk (irk) - Vladivostok (vla)
(*Disbanded*).
Holland: A Irkutsk (irk) - Vladivostok (vla) (*Fails*).
Holland: F Izu Trench (izu) - Kagoshima (kag) (*Fails*).
Holland: A Karachi (krc) - Bokhara (bkh).
Holland: A Kashgar (ksg) - Kirghiz (kir).
Holland: A Kirghiz (kir) - Mongolia (mon).
Holland: A Krasnoyarsk (kra) - Evenki (eve).
Holland: A Langchow (lch) Supports A Kirghiz (kir) - Mongolia (mon).
Holland: F Luzon (luz) Supports F Philippine (phi).
Holland: F Luzon Sea (lus) - Mindanao (mnd).
Holland: F Marshal Islands (mhl) Supports F West Pacific (wpa).
Holland: F New Guinea (ngu) - Timor (tim).
Holland: F New Zealand (nzl) - Tasman (tas).
Holland: F Okinawa (oki) Supports F Bismark Sea (bis) - Izu Trench (izu)
(*Fails*).
Holland: A Omsk (oms) Supports A Baku (bku) - Georgia (geo).
Holland: A Orenburg (orn) Supports A Baku (bku) - Georgia (geo).
Holland: F Philippine (phi) Supports F Bismark Sea (bis) - Izu Trench (izu)
(*Fails*).
Holland: F Shanghai (sha) - Peking (pek).
Holland: A Sinkiang (snk) Supports A Yunnan (yun) - Chungking (chk).
Holland: A Sofia (sof) Hold.
Holland: F South Atlantic (sat) - Cape Town (ctn).
Holland: F South China Sea (scs) Hold.
Holland: F South West Pacific (swp) - Equatorial CounterCurrent (eco) (*Fails*).
Holland: F Syria (syr)(wc) Supports F Cyprus (cyp) - Eastern Mediterranean
(eas).
Holland: A Tashkent (tsh) - Krasnoyarsk (kra).
Holland: A Tibet (tib) - Kashgar (ksg).
Holland: A Tonkin (tnk) Supports A Canton (can).
Holland: F Tubruq (tbq) Supports F Crete (cre) - Ionian Sea (ion).
Holland: F West Pacific (wpa) Supports F Kuril (kur) (*Ordered to Move*).
Holland: A Wuhan (wuh) Supports F Shanghai (sha) - Peking (pek).
Holland: A Yunnan (yun) - Chungking (chk).

Japan: F Edo (edo) Supports F Bering Sea (bse) - Kuril (kur).
Japan: F Fusan (fsn) Supports F Yellow Sea (yse).
Japan: F Kagoshima (kag) Supports F Yellow Sea (yse) (*Cut*).
Japan: F Kuril (kur) - Sapporo (sap).
Japan: F Port Arthur (poa) Supports A Manchuria (mac).
Japan: F Sea of Japan (soj) Supports F Yellow Sea (yse).
Japan: F Seoul (seo)(wc) Supports F Yellow Sea (yse).
Japan: A Vladivostok (vla) Hold.
Japan: F Yellow Sea (yse) Hold.

Russia: A Warsaw (war) Supports A Sevastopol (sev).
Russia: A Perm (prm) Supports A Moscow (mos).
Russia: A Sevastopol (sev) Supports A Moscow (mos).
Russia: A Moscow (mos) Supports A Perm (prm).

USA: A Alaska (ala) Hold.
USA: A Amazon (ama) Supports A Pramaiba (pra).
USA: F Baltic Sea (bal) Supports F North Sea (nth) - Denmark (den).
USA: A Barcelone (brc) Supports A Amazon (ama).
USA: F Barents Sea (bar) - Norway (nwy).
USA: F Bering Sea (bse) - Kuril (kur).
USA: A Caledonia (cld) Supports A Pramaiba (pra).
USA: F Cayenne (cyn) Supports F North East Trades (net).
USA: F Chesapeake Approaches (che) Supports F North Atlantic (nat).
USA: F Chilean Basin (cba) Supports F Drake (dra).
USA: F Counter Current (ccu) Supports F Hawaii (haw).
USA: F Denmark (den) - Sweden (swe).
USA: F Eastern Carribean (eca) Supports F Sargasso (sar).
USA: F Eastern Pacific (epa) Supports F Kirbati Sea (kse).
USA: F Eastern Seaboard (ese) Supports F North Atlantic (nat).
USA: F Finland (fin)(nc) Supports A St Petersburg (stp).
USA: F Gulf of Bothnia (bot) Supports F Baltic Sea (bal).
USA: F Hawaii (haw) Supports F Kirbati Sea (kse).
USA: F Helgoland Bight (hel) Supports F Norwegian Sea (nwg) - North Sea (nth).
USA: F Hudson (hud) Hold.
USA: F Kamchatka (kam) Supports F Bering Sea (bse) - Kuril (kur).
USA: F Kirbati Sea (kse) Hold.
USA: A Lima (lim) Supports A Amazon (ama).
USA: A Livonia (lvn) Supports A Moscow (mos).
USA: F North Atlantic (nat) Hold.
USA: F North East Trades (net) Hold.
USA: F North Pacific (npa) Supports F Westerlies (wst).
USA: F North Sea (nth) - Denmark (den).
USA: F Norwegian Sea (nwg) - North Sea (nth).
USA: F Nova Scotia (nsc) Supports F North Atlantic (nat).
USA: F Okhotsk (okh) Supports A Vladivostok (vla).
USA: F Pacific Basin (pba) Supports F Chilean Basin (cba).
USA: A Pramaiba (pra) Supports A Amazon (ama).
USA: A Ruperts Land (rla) Hold.
USA: F Sargasso (sar) Hold.
USA: F Society Islands (sct) Supports F South Pacific (spa).
USA: F South Pacific (spa) Hold.
USA: A St Petersburg (stp) Supports A Perm (prm).
USA: F Virgin Islands (vis) Supports F Sargasso (sar).
USA: F Westerlies (wst) Supports F Bering Sea (bse) - Kuril (kur).

Unit locations:

China: A Inner Mongolia (img), A Manchuria (mac).
France: F Adriatic Sea (adr), F The Azores (azo), F Bay of Biscay (bob), A
Berlin (ber), A Bosnia (bos), A Brasilia (bra), F Brazil Current
(bcu), F Cameroon (cmn), F Canary Seaway(cny), F Cape Verde Islands
(vrd), F Coast of Argentina (cag), A Cochabamba (coh), F Drake (dra),
F Falkland Islands (fal), A Galicia (gal), F Grain Coast (gcs), F
Greece (gre), F Gulf of Guinea (gog), F Gulf of Lyon (lyo), F Holland
(hol), A Kiel (kie), A La Paz (lpa), F Middle Atlantic (mat), F Nantes
(nan), F Okrana (okn), A Paris (par), A Quito (qto), F Recife (rec), A
Rio de Janeiro (rdj), A Rouen (rou), A Ruhr (ruh), A Rumania (rum), A
Serbia (ser), F Sicily (sic), A Silesia (sil), F South Georgia Islands
(sgr), A Stuttgart (stu), A Tawarek (twr), F Tripoli (trp), A Tunis
(tun), F Tyrrhenian Sea (tys), A Wallacia (wlc).
Holland: F Aegean Sea (aeg), F Angola (agl), F Angora (ang)(nc), F Antarctic
Indian Ocean(ain), A Aswan (asw), F Barrier Sea (brr), F Bismark Sea
(bis), F Black Sea (bla), A Bokhara (bkh), A Cairo (cai), A Canton
(can), F Cape Town (ctn), F Caroline Islands (crl), A Chungking (chk),
A Congo (cng), F Constantinople (con), F Coral Sea (cor), F Damaraland
(dml), A Dar Es Sallam (dar), F Eastern Mediterranean (eas), F
Equatorial CounterCurrent (eco), A Evenki (eve), A Fezz (fzz), F
Formosa (for), F Fuchan (fuc), A Georgia (geo), F Goodhope (goo), A
Inner Mongolia (img), F Ionian Sea (ion), A Irkutsk (irk), F Izu
Trench (izu), A Kasala (ksl), A Kashgar (ksg), A Kirghiz (kir), A
Krasnoyarsk (kra), A Langchow (lch), F Luzon (luz), F Marshal Islands
(mhl), F Mindanao (mnd), A Mongolia (mon), F New South Wales (nsw), F
Okinawa (oki), A Omsk (oms), A Orenburg (orn), F Peking (pek), F
Philippine (phi), F Queensland (qnl), F Shanghai (sha), A Sinkiang
(snk), A Sofia (sof), F South China Sea (scs), F South West Pacific
(swp), F Syria (syr)(wc), A Tabrize (tbr), F Tasman (tas), F Timor
(tim), A Tonkin (tnk), F Tubruq (tbq), F West Indian (win), F West
Pacific (wpa), A Wuhan (wuh), A Yakutsk (yak), A Yunnan (yun).
Japan: F Edo (edo), F Fusan (fsn), F Kagoshima (kag), F Port Arthur (poa), F
Sapporo (sap), F Sea of Japan (soj), F Seoul (seo)(wc), A Vladivostok
(vla), F Yellow Sea (yse).
Russia: A Warsaw (war), A Perm (prm), A Sevastopol (sev), A Moscow (mos).
USA: A Alaska (ala), A Amazon (ama), F Baltic Sea (bal), A Barcelone (brc),
A Caledonia (cld), F Cayenne (cyn), F Chesapeake Approaches (che), F
Chilean Basin (cba), F Counter Current (ccu), F Denmark (den), F
Eastern Carribean (eca), F Eastern Pacific (epa), F Eastern Seaboard
(ese), F Finland (fin)(nc), F Gulf of Bothnia (bot), F Hawaii (haw), F
Helgoland Bight (hel), F Hudson (hud), F Kamchatka (kam), F Kirbati
Sea (kse), F Kuril (kur), A Lima (lim), A Livonia (lvn), F North
Atlantic (nat), F North East Trades (net), F North Pacific (npa), F
North Sea (nth), F Norway (nwy), F Nova Scotia (nsc), F Okhotsk (okh),
F Pacific Basin (pba), A Pramaiba (pra), A Ruperts Land (rla), F
Sargasso (sar), F Society Islands (sct), F South Pacific (spa), A St
Petersburg (stp), F Sweden (swe), F Virgin Islands (vis), F Westerlies
(wst).

Ownership of supply centers:

Britain: Greenland (grn).
China: Manchuria (mac).
France: The Azores (azo), Bavaria (bav), Berlin (ber), Brasilia (bra),
Budapest (bud), Cameroon (cmn), Cape Verde Islands (vrd), Corsica
(crs), Crete (cre), Croatia (cro), Falkland Islands (fal), Gibraltar
(gib), Grain Coast (gcs), Greece (gre), Holland (hol), Ivory Coast
(ivc), Kiel (kie), La Paz (lpa), Marseilles (mar), Monrovia (mnv),
Morocco (mrc), Nantes (nan), Okrana (okn), Oliveira (oli), Paraguay
(prg), Paris (par), Piedmont (pie), Recife (rec), Rio de Janeiro
(rdj), Rome (rom), Ruhr (ruh), Rumania (rum), Salerno (sal), Serbia
(ser), Sicily (sic), Sierra Leone (sie), Silesia (sil), South Georgia
Islands (sgr), Stuttgart (stu), Tripoli (trp), Tunis (tun), Uruguay
(uru), Valencia (vlc), Venice (ven), Vienna (vie).
Holland: Abyssinia (aby), Aden (ade), Andaman Islands (amn), Angora (ang),
Baghdad (bag), Baku (bku), Bangalore (ban), Bangkok (bnk), Bengal
(ben), Bombay (bom), Borneo (brn), Botswana (bsw), Burma (brm), Cairo
(cai), Cambodia (cmb), Canton (can), Cape Town (ctn), Caroline Islands
(crl), Ceylon (cey), Chungking (chk), Cochin (cch), Constantinople
(con), Cyprus (cyp), Delhi (del), Fiji (fij), Formosa (for), Georgia
(geo), Hong Kong (hko), Irian Java (ija), Irkutsk (irk), Java (jav),
Karachi (krc), Kashmir (kas), Khiva (khv), Luzon (luz), Madagascar
(mad), Madras (mds), Malaysia (mal), Maldives (mld), Marshal Islands
(mhl), Mindanao (mnd), New Guinea (ngu), New South Wales (nsw), New
Zealand (nzl), Okinawa (oki), Oman (oma), Omsk (oms), Orenburg (orn),
Peking (pek), Perth (per), Queensland (qnl), Rangoon (rng), Rhodesia
(rho), Sarawak (srw), Seychelles (sey), Shanghai (sha), Singapore
(sin), Sinkiang (snk), Sofia (sof), Sudan (sud), Sumatra (sum),
Tashkent (tsh), Tehran (teh), Tonkin (tnk), Transvaal (trn), Wuhan
(wuh), Yuthia (yut).
Japan: Edo (edo), Fusan (fsn), Kagoshima (kag), Port Arthur (poa), Sakhurlin
(sak), Sapporo (sap), Seoul (seo), Vladivostok (vla).
Russia: Warsaw (war), Prussia (pru), Sevastopol (sev), Moscow (mos).
USA: Alberta (alb), Anchorage (anc), Atlanta (atl), Austin (aus), The
Bahamas (bah), Barcelone (brc), Bogota (bgt), Cayenne (cyn), Chicago
(chc), Cuba (cub), Denmark (den), Detroit (det), Dublin (dub),
Edinburgh (edi), Galapagos (glp), Haiti (hai), Hawaii (haw), Honduras
(hon), Kansas (kan), Lima (lim), London (lon), Mazatlan (maz), Merida
(mer), Mexico City (mex), Nebraska (neb), New Mexico (nme), New
Orleans (nol), New York (nyc), Norway (nwy), Nova Scotia (nsc),
Oklahoma (okl), Oregon (ore), Panama (pan), Paramaribo (pmb), Quebec
(que), Richmond (ric), San Francisco (sfo), Seattle (sea), Society
Islands (sct), St Petersburg (stp), Sweden (swe), Vancouver (van),
Victoria (vic), Virgin Islands (vis), Washington DC (wdc), Yukon (yuk).

Austria: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
Brazil: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
Britain: 1 Supply center , 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
China: 1 Supply center , 2 Units: Removes 1 unit.
CSA: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
France: 45 Supply centers, 42 Units: Builds 3 units.
Holland: 67 Supply centers, 63 Units: Builds 4 units.
Japan: 8 Supply centers, 9 Units: Removes 1 unit.
Mexico: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
Prussia: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
Russia: 4 Supply centers, 4 Units: Builds 0 units.
Turkey: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
USA: 46 Supply centers, 40 Units: Builds 6 units.


NEXT DEADLINE: WINTER 1879 ADJUSTMENTS DUE SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 1ST (11:59 PM GMT)!!






________________________________
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[Reply]

From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Guns, Germs and Steel 1264 / DC110 - Fall 1879 - Till the Fat Lady Sings...
To: sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com
Cc: "Cat23 1200 List" <Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com>, "dc110" <DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com>, "Rob Ackerley" <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca>, "David E Watson" <dipknight(at)comcast.net>, "Jerry Todd" <sgttodd(at)mainecav.org>, "Jim Atkins" <savwa4(at)comcast.net>, "Lee Taylor" <leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk>, "Mike Hoffman" <mrh(at)panix.com>, "Randolph" <ruffhaus8(at)aol.com>, "Rob Bristol" <rBristol(at)cargojet.com>, "Rob Bristol" <rbristol(at)cogeco.ca>, "Rudi Van Hal" <rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl>, "Rupert Armstrong" <writetorupert(at)gmail.com>, "Steve Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>, "Suzanne Castagne" <sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr>, "Ted Morley" <ee_morley(at)hotmail.com>, "Ted Morley" <Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov>
Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 12:43 AM

In clarification.
The pertinent part of my HRs is Section IX Paragraph (2) - which reads in part:

If, after a period of 4 game years, no Supply Centers have changed ownership, the GM reserves the right, after a warning is given, to declare a draw including all survivors...


The remainder of that paragraph is void in this instance, as I will enforce a DIAS if 4 game years elapse without centers changing hands.


Concerning the variant rules - unless any player has objection we will allow the optional rule of ending the game on Spring 1901. If this occurs, the game result will also be a DIAS.


Trout




On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 3:04 PM, Paolo Sforza <sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com ([email]sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:dc1fd09eff]
Hi Trout,

Just so we all know where we are then I formally ask the question.

This game can finish as a solo on 70 SCs - we all know that. No problem. It can also end as an n-way DRAW if such a proposal is unanimously passed. Again, no problem. All clear as crystal. However, as we could be heading towards game end, sooner rather than later, then exactly what criteria need to met and what duration do these criteria need to in place for you to call a DIAS? Is there an objective set of criteria for the DIAS that we play towards? There is an optional rule (is it in force?) that says '...the game will also end on Spring 1901 should no player possess the required number of supply centers'. The variant optional rule doesn't say what the result will be at game end. Just that the game will end. Is this also a DIAS?

Cheers and thanks,

Paolo.

--- On Thu, 10/30/08, Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Subject: Re: Guns, Germs and Steel 1264 / DC110 - Fall 1879 - Till the Fat Lady Sings...
To: sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com ([email]sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Cc: "Cat23 1200 List" <Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com ([email]Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com[/email])>, "dc110" <DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])>, "Rob Ackerley" <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>, "David E Watson" <dipknight(at)comcast.net ([email]dipknight(at)comcast.net[/email])>, "Jerry Todd" <sgttodd(at)mainecav.org ([email]sgttodd(at)mainecav.org[/email])>, "Jim Atkins" <savwa4(at)comcast.net ([email]savwa4(at)comcast.net[/email])>, "Lee Taylor" <leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk ([email]leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk[/email])>, "Mike Hoffman" <mrh(at)panix.com ([email]mrh(at)panix.com[/email])>, "Randolph" <ruffhaus8(at)aol.com ([email]ruffhaus8(at)aol.com[/email])>, "Rob Bristol" <rBristol(at)cargojet.com ([email]rBristol(at)cargojet.com[/email])>, "Rob Bristol" <rbristol(at)cogeco.ca ([email]rbristol(at)cogeco.ca[/email])>, "Rudi Van Hal" <rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl ([email]rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl[/email])>, "Rupert Armstrong" <writetorupert(at)gmail.com ([email]writetorupert(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "Steve Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "Suzanne Castagne" <sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr ([email]sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr[/email])>, "Ted Morley" <ee_morley(at)hotmail.com ([email]ee_morley(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "Ted Morley" <Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov ([email]Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov[/email])>
Date: Thursday, October 30, 2008, 3:52 PM

For the record.
Any players that do not wish to participate in this game are not held hostage to it. If you wish to abandon this game, please just let me know and I will find a replacement to finish the game off.
It will be labelled a game abandon, however, on the DC club stats. There is nothing I can do about that.
If any player has issues with my House Rules or my GMing style, I will be very happy to entertain your personal grievances in private.
Cheers!
Trout

On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Paolo Sforza <sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com ([email]sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:dc1fd09eff]
Hi guys,

I think I put in this 6-way for last turn, but just in case it is someone else's 6-way proposal, I'd better vote. YES, to the 6-way (China, France, Holland, Japan, Russia, USA) DRAW.

Everyone knows the stalemate line, so as long as it is maintained I shall be putting in this proposal every turn and voting down any other proposition. My family is very long lived so I should see the end. Assuming the House Rules are followed then this game should be over in 4 (L-O-N-G) game year's time when the GM calls a DIAS. I have to mention this now because I don't want this monster to go on a moment longer than necessary. If ANYONE has problems (I absolutely don't) with Steve sharing in this DIAS - so effectively making this a 7-way DRAW then they'd better call for his elimination NOW as this will be an SC change and so the 4-game year clock won't start ticking until after this elimination. If Rupert eliminates Steve in Spring and Rudi keeps voting down the 6-way then the game should end just after Spring 1883 - I make that 3 months (late January) based on how slowly this monstrosity has lurched forward so far (GAWD SAVE US!)

The House Rules say (God forbid we ever actually follow the House Rules, of course) that the movement turns could be a minimum of 2 days duration. If Trout would reduce to this duration AND/OR remove his prohibition on perpetual orders then we could get this nonsense over and done with in a couple of weeks (still far too long in my book).

Like I said, I think, once before. This is game is about as exciting as watching anti-climb paint dry. This is supposed to be a 'short' game as it only requires 70 SCs for a SOLO. Even that fudge can't make this enjoyable. Who the hell invents this crappy huge games, riddled with stalemate lines? Rhetorical question - I DON'T want to know anything more about Imperial2,

Just thought! If packrat is right and REing is the same as FWDing - I might be lucky enough to be replaced! Cor, there IS light at the end of the tunnel.

Cheers to all,

Paolo.





--- On Thu, 10/30/08, Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])> wrote:

From: Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>
Subject: Re: Guns, Germs and Steel 1264 / DC110 - Fall 1879 - Till the Fat Lady Sings...
To: "Former Trout" <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "Cat23 1200 List" <Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com ([email]Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com[/email])>, "dc110" <DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])>
Cc: "David E Watson" <dipknight(at)comcast.net ([email]dipknight(at)comcast.net[/email])>, "Jerry Todd" <sgttodd(at)mainecav.org ([email]sgttodd(at)mainecav.org[/email])>, "Jim Atkins" <savwa4(at)comcast.net ([email]savwa4(at)comcast.net[/email])>, "Lee Taylor" <leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk ([email]leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk[/email])>, "Mike Hoffman" <mrh(at)panix.com ([email]mrh(at)panix.com[/email])>, "Paolo Sforza" <sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com ([email]sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "Randolph" <ruffhaus8(at)aol.com ([email]ruffhaus8(at)aol.com[/email])>, "Rob Bristol" <rBristol(at)cargojet.com ([email]rBristol(at)cargojet.com[/email])>, "Rob Bristol" <rbristol(at)cogeco.ca ([email]rbristol(at)cogeco.ca[/email])>, "Rudi Van Hal" <rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl ([email]rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl[/email])>, "Rupert Armstrong" <writetorupert(at)gmail.com ([email]writetorupert(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "Steve Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "Suzanne Castagne" <sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr ([email]sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr[/email])>, "Ted Morley" <ee_morley(at)hotmail.com ([email]ee_morley(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "Ted Morley" <Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov ([email]Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov[/email])>
Date: Thursday, October 30, 2008, 12:55 PM

YES vote from Russia.

________________________________
From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Cat23 1200 List <Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com ([email]Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com[/email])>; dc110 <DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])>
Cc: David E Watson <dipknight(at)comcast.net ([email]dipknight(at)comcast.net[/email])>; Jerry Todd <sgttodd(at)mainecav.org ([email]sgttodd(at)mainecav.org[/email])>; Jim Atkins <savwa4(at)comcast.net ([email]savwa4(at)comcast.net[/email])>; Lee Taylor <leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk ([email]leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk[/email])>; Mike Hoffman <mrh(at)panix.com ([email]mrh(at)panix.com[/email])>; Paolo Sforza <sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com ([email]sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Randolph <ruffhaus8(at)aol.com ([email]ruffhaus8(at)aol.com[/email])>; Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; Rob Bristol <rBristol(at)cargojet.com ([email]rBristol(at)cargojet.com[/email])>; Rob Bristol <rbristol(at)cogeco.ca ([email]rbristol(at)cogeco.ca[/email])>; Rudi Van Hal <rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl ([email]rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl[/email])>; Rupert Armstrong <writetorupert(at)gmail.com ([email]writetorupert(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Steve Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Suzanne Castagne <sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr ([email]sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr[/email])>; Ted Morley <ee_morley(at)hotmail.com ([email]ee_morley(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Ted Morley <Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov ([email]Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov[/email])>
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 10:51:42 AM
Subject: Guns, Germs and Steel 1264 / DC110 - Fall 1879 - Till the Fat Lady Sings...

- TEMPERS FLARE AS WORLD REALIZES ... IT AIN'T OVER!!
- MEAT TENDERIZERS AND ATHLETIC CUPS FLY OFF SHELVES WORLD-WIDE

Okie. Lets all sit around the fire and have a short talk.

Some of you wish to end this game. I absolutely understand that. But despite how crazy it sounds to some, there are those of you who do NOT wish it to end. At least, not at this point.

This is a monster. We all knew it was a monster when we signed up to play. And the fact that its gone on for quite some time has not changed the truth in any way that this game remains a monster. What we have left with is a very good group of players that all have strong wills and personalities... And a board that seems locked to some but that still actually has quite a lot of play in it.

Please do not be discouraged that, if you are one of those wanting the game to end, that it is not - in fact - ending. =P

But okay - enough blabber from me. Fall rolls around and find Holland undergoing a massive withdrawal and reorganization in the south. China continues to get gobbled up and the British in exile suddenly find two thirds of their town halls waving American flags.

The Dutch solo proposal is kicked under the table meeting defeat. In the meanwhile, a new 6-way draw (US/France/Russia/Holland/Japan/China) is proposed. Please have your yay or nay votes on that submitted to me by the Winter 1879 deadline of Saturday, November 1st (11:59 PM GMT).

Strap on those cups, gentlemen. The time-clock hasn't quite run out. =P

Cheers!

Trout

Movement results for Fall of 1879. (1879 FALL)

China: A Manchuria (mac) Supports A Mongolia (mon) - Inner Mongolia (img).
China: A Mongolia (mon) - Inner Mongolia (img).

France: F Adriatic Sea (adr) Supports F Greece (gre).
France: F The Azores (azo) Supports F Bay of Biscay (bob).
France: F Bay of Biscay (bob) Supports F Nantes (nan).
France: A Berlin (ber) Supports A Kiel (kie).
France: A Bosnia (bos) Supports F Greece (gre).
France: A Brasilia (bra) Supports F Recife (rec).
France: F Brazil Current (bcu) Supports F South Georgia Islands (sgr).
France: F Cameroon (cmn) Supports F Okrana (okn).
France: F Canary Seaway(cny) Supports F Cape Verde Islands (vrd).
France: F Cape Verde Islands (vrd) Supports F Canary Seaway(cny).
France: F Coast of Argentina (cag) Supports F Brazil Current (bcu).
France: F Drake (dra) Supports F Brazil Current (bcu).
France: F Falkland Islands (fal) Supports F Drake (dra).
France: A Galicia (gal) Supports A Sevastopol (sev).
France: A Goyamas (goy) - Cochabamba (coh).
France: F Grain Coast (gcs) Supports F Middle Atlantic (mat).
France: F Greece (gre) Supports A Bosnia (bos).
France: F Gulf of Guinea (gog) Supports F Okrana (okn).
France: F Gulf of Lyon (lyo) - Gibraltar (gib) (*Fails*).
France: F Holland (hol) Supports A Rouen (rou).
France: F Ionian Sea (ion) - Sicily (sic).
France: A Kiel (kie) Supports A Berlin (ber).
France: A La Paz (lpa) Supports A Brasilia (bra).
France: F Middle Atlantic (mat) Supports F Recife (rec).
France: F Nantes (nan) Supports F Bay of Biscay (bob).
France: F Okrana (okn) Supports F Gulf of Guinea (gog).
France: A Paris (par) Supports F Nantes (nan).
France: A Quito (qto) Supports A La Paz (lpa).
France: F Recife (rec) Supports F Middle Atlantic (mat).
France: A Rio de Janeiro (rdj) Supports F Recife (rec).
France: A Rouen (rou) Supports F Holland (hol).
France: A Ruhr (ruh) Supports A Kiel (kie).
France: A Rumania (rum) Supports A Sevastopol (sev).
France: A Serbia (ser) Supports A Bosnia (bos).
France: A Silesia (sil) Supports A Berlin (ber).
France: F South Georgia Islands (sgr) Supports F Brazil Current (bcu).
France: A Stuttgart (stu) Supports A Kiel (kie).
France: A Tawarek (twr) Supports F Tripoli (trp).
France: F Tripoli (trp) Supports A Tunis (tun) (*Cut*).
France: A Tunis (tun) Supports F Tripoli (trp).
France: F Tyrrhenian Sea (tys) Supports A Tunis (tun).
France: A Wallacia (wlc) Supports A Rumania (rum).

Holland: F Angola (agl) - South Atlantic (sat) (*Bounce*).
Holland: F Angora (ang)(nc) Supports F Black Sea (bla).
Holland: F Antarctic Atlantic Ocean (aat) - Goodhope (goo).
Holland: F Antarctic Indian Ocean(ain) Supports F Antarctic Atlantic Ocean
(aat) (*Ordered to Move*).
Holland: F Antarctic Pacific Ocean(apa) - Barrier Sea (brr).
Holland: A Armenia (arm) - Tabrize (tbr).
Holland: A Assam (asm) - Yunnan (yun).
Holland: A Aswan (asw) - Fezz (fzz) (*Fails*).
Holland: A Baku (bku) - Georgia (geo).
Holland: F Barrier Sea (brr) - New South Wales (nsw).
Holland: F Bismark Sea (bis) - Izu Trench (izu) (*Fails*).
Holland: F Black Sea (bla) Convoys A Sevastopol (sev) - Baku (bku) (*Void*).
Holland: A Bokhara (bkh) - Kasala (ksl).
Holland: A Cairo (cai) Supports F Tubruq (tbq).
Holland: A Canton (can) Supports F Hong Kong (hko) - Fuchan (fuc).
Holland: F Caroline Islands (crl) Supports F Bismark Sea (bis) - Izu Trench
(izu) (*Fails*).
Holland: A Congo (cng) Supports F Angola (agl) (*Ordered to Move*).
Holland: F Constantinople (con) Supports A Sofia (sof).
Holland: F Coral Sea (cor) - Queensland (qnl).
Holland: F Crete (cre) - Ionian Sea (ion).
Holland: F Cyprus (cyp) - Eastern Mediterranean (eas).
Holland: F Damaraland (dml) - South Atlantic (sat) (*Bounce*).
Holland: A Dar Es Sallam (dar) Supports A Aswan (asw) - Fezz (fzz) (*Fails*).
Holland: F East China Sea (ecs) - Shanghai (sha).
Holland: F Eastern Mediterranean (eas) - Aegean Sea (aeg).
Holland: F Equatorial CounterCurrent (eco) - Bismark Sea (bis) (*Fails*).
Holland: A Evenki (eve) - Yakutsk (yak).
Holland: A Fezz (fzz) - Tripoli (trp) (*Fails*).
Holland: F Fiji (fij) - Coral Sea (cor).
Holland: F Formosa (for) Hold.
Holland: F Goodhope (goo) - West Indian (win).
Holland: F Hong Kong (hko) - Fuchan (fuc).
Holland: A Inner Mongolia (img) Supports A Irkutsk (irk) - Vladivostok (vla)
(*Disbanded*).
Holland: A Irkutsk (irk) - Vladivostok (vla) (*Fails*).
Holland: F Izu Trench (izu) - Kagoshima (kag) (*Fails*).
Holland: A Karachi (krc) - Bokhara (bkh).
Holland: A Kashgar (ksg) - Kirghiz (kir).
Holland: A Kirghiz (kir) - Mongolia (mon).
Holland: A Krasnoyarsk (kra) - Evenki (eve).
Holland: A Langchow (lch) Supports A Kirghiz (kir) - Mongolia (mon).
Holland: F Luzon (luz) Supports F Philippine (phi).
Holland: F Luzon Sea (lus) - Mindanao (mnd).
Holland: F Marshal Islands (mhl) Supports F West Pacific (wpa).
Holland: F New Guinea (ngu) - Timor (tim).
Holland: F New Zealand (nzl) - Tasman (tas).
Holland: F Okinawa (oki) Supports F Bismark Sea (bis) - Izu Trench (izu)
(*Fails*).
Holland: A Omsk (oms) Supports A Baku (bku) - Georgia (geo).
Holland: A Orenburg (orn) Supports A Baku (bku) - Georgia (geo).
Holland: F Philippine (phi) Supports F Bismark Sea (bis) - Izu Trench (izu)
(*Fails*).
Holland: F Shanghai (sha) - Peking (pek).
Holland: A Sinkiang (snk) Supports A Yunnan (yun) - Chungking (chk).
Holland: A Sofia (sof) Hold.
Holland: F South Atlantic (sat) - Cape Town (ctn).
Holland: F South China Sea (scs) Hold.
Holland: F South West Pacific (swp) - Equatorial CounterCurrent (eco) (*Fails*).
Holland: F Syria (syr)(wc) Supports F Cyprus (cyp) - Eastern Mediterranean
(eas).
Holland: A Tashkent (tsh) - Krasnoyarsk (kra).
Holland: A Tibet (tib) - Kashgar (ksg).
Holland: A Tonkin (tnk) Supports A Canton (can).
Holland: F Tubruq (tbq) Supports F Crete (cre) - Ionian Sea (ion).
Holland: F West Pacific (wpa) Supports F Kuril (kur) (*Ordered to Move*).
Holland: A Wuhan (wuh) Supports F Shanghai (sha) - Peking (pek).
Holland: A Yunnan (yun) - Chungking (chk).

Japan: F Edo (edo) Supports F Bering Sea (bse) - Kuril (kur).
Japan: F Fusan (fsn) Supports F Yellow Sea (yse).
Japan: F Kagoshima (kag) Supports F Yellow Sea (yse) (*Cut*).
Japan: F Kuril (kur) - Sapporo (sap).
Japan: F Port Arthur (poa) Supports A Manchuria (mac).
Japan: F Sea of Japan (soj) Supports F Yellow Sea (yse).
Japan: F Seoul (seo)(wc) Supports F Yellow Sea (yse).
Japan: A Vladivostok (vla) Hold.
Japan: F Yellow Sea (yse) Hold.

Russia: A Warsaw (war) Supports A Sevastopol (sev).
Russia: A Perm (prm) Supports A Moscow (mos).
Russia: A Sevastopol (sev) Supports A Moscow (mos).
Russia: A Moscow (mos) Supports A Perm (prm).

USA: A Alaska (ala) Hold.
USA: A Amazon (ama) Supports A Pramaiba (pra).
USA: F Baltic Sea (bal) Supports F North Sea (nth) - Denmark (den).
USA: A Barcelone (brc) Supports A Amazon (ama).
USA: F Barents Sea (bar) - Norway (nwy).
USA: F Bering Sea (bse) - Kuril (kur).
USA: A Caledonia (cld) Supports A Pramaiba (pra).
USA: F Cayenne (cyn) Supports F North East Trades (net).
USA: F Chesapeake Approaches (che) Supports F North Atlantic (nat).
USA: F Chilean Basin (cba) Supports F Drake (dra).
USA: F Counter Current (ccu) Supports F Hawaii (haw).
USA: F Denmark (den) - Sweden (swe).
USA: F Eastern Carribean (eca) Supports F Sargasso (sar).
USA: F Eastern Pacific (epa) Supports F Kirbati Sea (kse).
USA: F Eastern Seaboard (ese) Supports F North Atlantic (nat).
USA: F Finland (fin)(nc) Supports A St Petersburg (stp).
USA: F Gulf of Bothnia (bot) Supports F Baltic Sea (bal).
USA: F Hawaii (haw) Supports F Kirbati Sea (kse).
USA: F Helgoland Bight (hel) Supports F Norwegian Sea (nwg) - North Sea (nth).
USA: F Hudson (hud) Hold.
USA: F Kamchatka (kam) Supports F Bering Sea (bse) - Kuril (kur).
USA: F Kirbati Sea (kse) Hold.
USA: A Lima (lim) Supports A Amazon (ama).
USA: A Livonia (lvn) Supports A Moscow (mos).
USA: F North Atlantic (nat) Hold.
USA: F North East Trades (net) Hold.
USA: F North Pacific (npa) Supports F Westerlies (wst).
USA: F North Sea (nth) - Denmark (den).
USA: F Norwegian Sea (nwg) - North Sea (nth).
USA: F Nova Scotia (nsc) Supports F North Atlantic (nat).
USA: F Okhotsk (okh) Supports A Vladivostok (vla).
USA: F Pacific Basin (pba) Supports F Chilean Basin (cba).
USA: A Pramaiba (pra) Supports A Amazon (ama).
USA: A Ruperts Land (rla) Hold.
USA: F Sargasso (sar) Hold.
USA: F Society Islands (sct) Supports F South Pacific (spa).
USA: F South Pacific (spa) Hold.
USA: A St Petersburg (stp) Supports A Perm (prm).
USA: F Virgin Islands (vis) Supports F Sargasso (sar).
USA: F Westerlies (wst) Supports F Bering Sea (bse) - Kuril (kur).

Unit locations:

China: A Inner Mongolia (img), A Manchuria (mac).
France: F Adriatic Sea (adr), F The Azores (azo), F Bay of Biscay (bob), A
Berlin (ber), A Bosnia (bos), A Brasilia (bra), F Brazil Current
(bcu), F Cameroon (cmn), F Canary Seaway(cny), F Cape Verde Islands
(vrd), F Coast of Argentina (cag), A Cochabamba (coh), F Drake (dra),
F Falkland Islands (fal), A Galicia (gal), F Grain Coast (gcs), F
Greece (gre), F Gulf of Guinea (gog), F Gulf of Lyon (lyo), F Holland
(hol), A Kiel (kie), A La Paz (lpa), F Middle Atlantic (mat), F Nantes
(nan), F Okrana (okn), A Paris (par), A Quito (qto), F Recife (rec), A
Rio de Janeiro (rdj), A Rouen (rou), A Ruhr (ruh), A Rumania (rum), A
Serbia (ser), F Sicily (sic), A Silesia (sil), F South Georgia Islands
(sgr), A Stuttgart (stu), A Tawarek (twr), F Tripoli (trp), A Tunis
(tun), F Tyrrhenian Sea (tys), A Wallacia (wlc).
Holland: F Aegean Sea (aeg), F Angola (agl), F Angora (ang)(nc), F Antarctic
Indian Ocean(ain), A Aswan (asw), F Barrier Sea (brr), F Bismark Sea
(bis), F Black Sea (bla), A Bokhara (bkh), A Cairo (cai), A Canton
(can), F Cape Town (ctn), F Caroline Islands (crl), A Chungking (chk),
A Congo (cng), F Constantinople (con), F Coral Sea (cor), F Damaraland
(dml), A Dar Es Sallam (dar), F Eastern Mediterranean (eas), F
Equatorial CounterCurrent (eco), A Evenki (eve), A Fezz (fzz), F
Formosa (for), F Fuchan (fuc), A Georgia (geo), F Goodhope (goo), A
Inner Mongolia (img), F Ionian Sea (ion), A Irkutsk (irk), F Izu
Trench (izu), A Kasala (ksl), A Kashgar (ksg), A Kirghiz (kir), A
Krasnoyarsk (kra), A Langchow (lch), F Luzon (luz), F Marshal Islands
(mhl), F Mindanao (mnd), A Mongolia (mon), F New South Wales (nsw), F
Okinawa (oki), A Omsk (oms), A Orenburg (orn), F Peking (pek), F
Philippine (phi), F Queensland (qnl), F Shanghai (sha), A Sinkiang
(snk), A Sofia (sof), F South China Sea (scs), F South West Pacific
(swp), F Syria (syr)(wc), A Tabrize (tbr), F Tasman (tas), F Timor
(tim), A Tonkin (tnk), F Tubruq (tbq), F West Indian (win), F West
Pacific (wpa), A Wuhan (wuh), A Yakutsk (yak), A Yunnan (yun).
Japan: F Edo (edo), F Fusan (fsn), F Kagoshima (kag), F Port Arthur (poa), F
Sapporo (sap), F Sea of Japan (soj), F Seoul (seo)(wc), A Vladivostok
(vla), F Yellow Sea (yse).
Russia: A Warsaw (war), A Perm (prm), A Sevastopol (sev), A Moscow (mos).
USA: A Alaska (ala), A Amazon (ama), F Baltic Sea (bal), A Barcelone (brc),
A Caledonia (cld), F Cayenne (cyn), F Chesapeake Approaches (che), F
Chilean Basin (cba), F Counter Current (ccu), F Denmark (den), F
Eastern Carribean (eca), F Eastern Pacific (epa), F Eastern Seaboard
(ese), F Finland (fin)(nc), F Gulf of Bothnia (bot), F Hawaii (haw), F
Helgoland Bight (hel), F Hudson (hud), F Kamchatka (kam), F Kirbati
Sea (kse), F Kuril (kur), A Lima (lim), A Livonia (lvn), F North
Atlantic (nat), F North East Trades (net), F North Pacific (npa), F
North Sea (nth), F Norway (nwy), F Nova Scotia (nsc), F Okhotsk (okh),
F Pacific Basin (pba), A Pramaiba (pra), A Ruperts Land (rla), F
Sargasso (sar), F Society Islands (sct), F South Pacific (spa), A St
Petersburg (stp), F Sweden (swe), F Virgin Islands (vis), F Westerlies
(wst).

Ownership of supply centers:

Britain: Greenland (grn).
China: Manchuria (mac).
France: The Azores (azo), Bavaria (bav), Berlin (ber), Brasilia (bra),
Budapest (bud), Cameroon (cmn), Cape Verde Islands (vrd), Corsica
(crs), Crete (cre), Croatia (cro), Falkland Islands (fal), Gibraltar
(gib), Grain Coast (gcs), Greece (gre), Holland (hol), Ivory Coast
(ivc), Kiel (kie), La Paz (lpa), Marseilles (mar), Monrovia (mnv),
Morocco (mrc), Nantes (nan), Okrana (okn), Oliveira (oli), Paraguay
(prg), Paris (par), Piedmont (pie), Recife (rec), Rio de Janeiro
(rdj), Rome (rom), Ruhr (ruh), Rumania (rum), Salerno (sal), Serbia
(ser), Sicily (sic), Sierra Leone (sie), Silesia (sil), South Georgia
Islands (sgr), Stuttgart (stu), Tripoli (trp), Tunis (tun), Uruguay
(uru), Valencia (vlc), Venice (ven), Vienna (vie).
Holland: Abyssinia (aby), Aden (ade), Andaman Islands (amn), Angora (ang),
Baghdad (bag), Baku (bku), Bangalore (ban), Bangkok (bnk), Bengal
(ben), Bombay (bom), Borneo (brn), Botswana (bsw), Burma (brm), Cairo
(cai), Cambodia (cmb), Canton (can), Cape Town (ctn), Caroline Islands
(crl), Ceylon (cey), Chungking (chk), Cochin (cch), Constantinople
(con), Cyprus (cyp), Delhi (del), Fiji (fij), Formosa (for), Georgia
(geo), Hong Kong (hko), Irian Java (ija), Irkutsk (irk), Java (jav),
Karachi (krc), Kashmir (kas), Khiva (khv), Luzon (luz), Madagascar
(mad), Madras (mds), Malaysia (mal), Maldives (mld), Marshal Islands
(mhl), Mindanao (mnd), New Guinea (ngu), New South Wales (nsw), New
Zealand (nzl), Okinawa (oki), Oman (oma), Omsk (oms), Orenburg (orn),
Peking (pek), Perth (per), Queensland (qnl), Rangoon (rng), Rhodesia
(rho), Sarawak (srw), Seychelles (sey), Shanghai (sha), Singapore
(sin), Sinkiang (snk), Sofia (sof), Sudan (sud), Sumatra (sum),
Tashkent (tsh), Tehran (teh), Tonkin (tnk), Transvaal (trn), Wuhan
(wuh), Yuthia (yut).
Japan: Edo (edo), Fusan (fsn), Kagoshima (kag), Port Arthur (poa), Sakhurlin
(sak), Sapporo (sap), Seoul (seo), Vladivostok (vla).
Russia: Warsaw (war), Prussia (pru), Sevastopol (sev), Moscow (mos).
USA: Alberta (alb), Anchorage (anc), Atlanta (atl), Austin (aus), The
Bahamas (bah), Barcelone (brc), Bogota (bgt), Cayenne (cyn), Chicago
(chc), Cuba (cub), Denmark (den), Detroit (det), Dublin (dub),
Edinburgh (edi), Galapagos (glp), Haiti (hai), Hawaii (haw), Honduras
(hon), Kansas (kan), Lima (lim), London (lon), Mazatlan (maz), Merida
(mer), Mexico City (mex), Nebraska (neb), New Mexico (nme), New
Orleans (nol), New York (nyc), Norway (nwy), Nova Scotia (nsc),
Oklahoma (okl), Oregon (ore), Panama (pan), Paramaribo (pmb), Quebec
(que), Richmond (ric), San Francisco (sfo), Seattle (sea), Society
Islands (sct), St Petersburg (stp), Sweden (swe), Vancouver (van),
Victoria (vic), Virgin Islands (vis), Washington DC (wdc), Yukon (yuk).

Austria: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
Brazil: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
Britain: 1 Supply center , 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
China: 1 Supply center , 2 Units: Removes 1 unit.
CSA: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
France: 45 Supply centers, 42 Units: Builds 3 units.
Holland: 67 Supply centers, 63 Units: Builds 4 units.
Japan: 8 Supply centers, 9 Units: Removes 1 unit.
Mexico: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
Prussia: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
Russia: 4 Supply centers, 4 Units: Builds 0 units.
Turkey: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
USA: 46 Supply centers, 40 Units: Builds 6 units.


NEXT DEADLINE: WINTER 1879 ADJUSTMENTS DUE SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 1ST (11:59 PM GMT)!!






________________________________
Now with a new friend-happy design! Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger

[Reply]

From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Guns, Germs and Steel 1264 / DC110 - Fall 1879 - Till the Fat Lady Sings...
To: sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com
Cc: "Cat23 1200 List" <Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com>, "dc110" <DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com>, "Rob Ackerley" <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca>, "David E Watson" <dipknight(at)comcast.net>, "Jerry Todd" <sgttodd(at)mainecav.org>, "Jim Atkins" <savwa4(at)comcast.net>, "Lee Taylor" <leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk>, "Mike Hoffman" <mrh(at)panix.com>, "Randolph" <ruffhaus8(at)aol.com>, "Rob Bristol" <rBristol(at)cargojet.com>, "Rob Bristol" <rbristol(at)cogeco.ca>, "Rudi Van Hal" <rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl>, "Rupert Armstrong" <writetorupert(at)gmail.com>, "Steve Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>, "Suzanne Castagne" <sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr>, "Ted Morley" <ee_morley(at)hotmail.com>, "Ted Morley" <Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov>
Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 12:43 AM

In clarification.
The pertinent part of my HRs is Section IX Paragraph (2) - which reads in part:

If, after a period of 4 game years, no Supply Centers have changed ownership, the GM reserves the right, after a warning is given, to declare a draw including all survivors...


The remainder of that paragraph is void in this instance, as I will enforce a DIAS if 4 game years elapse without centers changing hands.


Concerning the variant rules - unless any player has objection we will allow the optional rule of ending the game on Spring 1901. If this occurs, the game result will also be a DIAS.


Trout




On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 3:04 PM, Paolo Sforza <sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com ([email]sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:4b0c87b663]
Hi Trout,

Just so we all know where we are then I formally ask the question.

This game can finish as a solo on 70 SCs - we all know that. No problem. It can also end as an n-way DRAW if such a proposal is unanimously passed. Again, no problem. All clear as crystal. However, as we could be heading towards game end, sooner rather than later, then exactly what criteria need to met and what duration do these criteria need to in place for you to call a DIAS? Is there an objective set of criteria for the DIAS that we play towards? There is an optional rule (is it in force?) that says '...the game will also end on Spring 1901 should no player possess the required number of supply centers'. The variant optional rule doesn't say what the result will be at game end. Just that the game will end. Is this also a DIAS?

Cheers and thanks,

Paolo.

--- On Thu, 10/30/08, Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Subject: Re: Guns, Germs and Steel 1264 / DC110 - Fall 1879 - Till the Fat Lady Sings...
To: sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com ([email]sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Cc: "Cat23 1200 List" <Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com ([email]Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com[/email])>, "dc110" <DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])>, "Rob Ackerley" <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>, "David E Watson" <dipknight(at)comcast.net ([email]dipknight(at)comcast.net[/email])>, "Jerry Todd" <sgttodd(at)mainecav.org ([email]sgttodd(at)mainecav.org[/email])>, "Jim Atkins" <savwa4(at)comcast.net ([email]savwa4(at)comcast.net[/email])>, "Lee Taylor" <leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk ([email]leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk[/email])>, "Mike Hoffman" <mrh(at)panix.com ([email]mrh(at)panix.com[/email])>, "Randolph" <ruffhaus8(at)aol.com ([email]ruffhaus8(at)aol.com[/email])>, "Rob Bristol" <rBristol(at)cargojet.com ([email]rBristol(at)cargojet.com[/email])>, "Rob Bristol" <rbristol(at)cogeco.ca ([email]rbristol(at)cogeco.ca[/email])>, "Rudi Van Hal" <rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl ([email]rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl[/email])>, "Rupert Armstrong" <writetorupert(at)gmail.com ([email]writetorupert(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "Steve Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "Suzanne Castagne" <sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr ([email]sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr[/email])>, "Ted Morley" <ee_morley(at)hotmail.com ([email]ee_morley(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "Ted Morley" <Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov ([email]Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov[/email])>
Date: Thursday, October 30, 2008, 3:52 PM

For the record.
Any players that do not wish to participate in this game are not held hostage to it. If you wish to abandon this game, please just let me know and I will find a replacement to finish the game off.
It will be labelled a game abandon, however, on the DC club stats. There is nothing I can do about that.
If any player has issues with my House Rules or my GMing style, I will be very happy to entertain your personal grievances in private.
Cheers!
Trout

On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Paolo Sforza <sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com ([email]sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:4b0c87b663]
Hi guys,

I think I put in this 6-way for last turn, but just in case it is someone else's 6-way proposal, I'd better vote. YES, to the 6-way (China, France, Holland, Japan, Russia, USA) DRAW.

Everyone knows the stalemate line, so as long as it is maintained I shall be putting in this proposal every turn and voting down any other proposition. My family is very long lived so I should see the end. Assuming the House Rules are followed then this game should be over in 4 (L-O-N-G) game year's time when the GM calls a DIAS. I have to mention this now because I don't want this monster to go on a moment longer than necessary. If ANYONE has problems (I absolutely don't) with Steve sharing in this DIAS - so effectively making this a 7-way DRAW then they'd better call for his elimination NOW as this will be an SC change and so the 4-game year clock won't start ticking until after this elimination. If Rupert eliminates Steve in Spring and Rudi keeps voting down the 6-way then the game should end just after Spring 1883 - I make that 3 months (late January) based on how slowly this monstrosity has lurched forward so far (GAWD SAVE US!)

The House Rules say (God forbid we ever actually follow the House Rules, of course) that the movement turns could be a minimum of 2 days duration. If Trout would reduce to this duration AND/OR remove his prohibition on perpetual orders then we could get this nonsense over and done with in a couple of weeks (still far too long in my book).

Like I said, I think, once before. This is game is about as exciting as watching anti-climb paint dry. This is supposed to be a 'short' game as it only requires 70 SCs for a SOLO. Even that fudge can't make this enjoyable. Who the hell invents this crappy huge games, riddled with stalemate lines? Rhetorical question - I DON'T want to know anything more about Imperial2,

Just thought! If packrat is right and REing is the same as FWDing - I might be lucky enough to be replaced! Cor, there IS light at the end of the tunnel.

Cheers to all,

Paolo.





--- On Thu, 10/30/08, Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])> wrote:

From: Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>
Subject: Re: Guns, Germs and Steel 1264 / DC110 - Fall 1879 - Till the Fat Lady Sings...
To: "Former Trout" <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "Cat23 1200 List" <Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com ([email]Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com[/email])>, "dc110" <DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])>
Cc: "David E Watson" <dipknight(at)comcast.net ([email]dipknight(at)comcast.net[/email])>, "Jerry Todd" <sgttodd(at)mainecav.org ([email]sgttodd(at)mainecav.org[/email])>, "Jim Atkins" <savwa4(at)comcast.net ([email]savwa4(at)comcast.net[/email])>, "Lee Taylor" <leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk ([email]leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk[/email])>, "Mike Hoffman" <mrh(at)panix.com ([email]mrh(at)panix.com[/email])>, "Paolo Sforza" <sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com ([email]sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "Randolph" <ruffhaus8(at)aol.com ([email]ruffhaus8(at)aol.com[/email])>, "Rob Bristol" <rBristol(at)cargojet.com ([email]rBristol(at)cargojet.com[/email])>, "Rob Bristol" <rbristol(at)cogeco.ca ([email]rbristol(at)cogeco.ca[/email])>, "Rudi Van Hal" <rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl ([email]rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl[/email])>, "Rupert Armstrong" <writetorupert(at)gmail.com ([email]writetorupert(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "Steve Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "Suzanne Castagne" <sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr ([email]sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr[/email])>, "Ted Morley" <ee_morley(at)hotmail.com ([email]ee_morley(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "Ted Morley" <Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov ([email]Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov[/email])>
Date: Thursday, October 30, 2008, 12:55 PM

YES vote from Russia.

________________________________
From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Cat23 1200 List <Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com ([email]Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com[/email])>; dc110 <DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])>
Cc: David E Watson <dipknight(at)comcast.net ([email]dipknight(at)comcast.net[/email])>; Jerry Todd <sgttodd(at)mainecav.org ([email]sgttodd(at)mainecav.org[/email])>; Jim Atkins <savwa4(at)comcast.net ([email]savwa4(at)comcast.net[/email])>; Lee Taylor <leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk ([email]leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk[/email])>; Mike Hoffman <mrh(at)panix.com ([email]mrh(at)panix.com[/email])>; Paolo Sforza <sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com ([email]sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Randolph <ruffhaus8(at)aol.com ([email]ruffhaus8(at)aol.com[/email])>; Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; Rob Bristol <rBristol(at)cargojet.com ([email]rBristol(at)cargojet.com[/email])>; Rob Bristol <rbristol(at)cogeco.ca ([email]rbristol(at)cogeco.ca[/email])>; Rudi Van Hal <rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl ([email]rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl[/email])>; Rupert Armstrong <writetorupert(at)gmail.com ([email]writetorupert(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Steve Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Suzanne Castagne <sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr ([email]sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr[/email])>; Ted Morley <ee_morley(at)hotmail.com ([email]ee_morley(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Ted Morley <Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov ([email]Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov[/email])>
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 10:51:42 AM
Subject: Guns, Germs and Steel 1264 / DC110 - Fall 1879 - Till the Fat Lady Sings...

- TEMPERS FLARE AS WORLD REALIZES ... IT AIN'T OVER!!
- MEAT TENDERIZERS AND ATHLETIC CUPS FLY OFF SHELVES WORLD-WIDE

Okie. Lets all sit around the fire and have a short talk.

Some of you wish to end this game. I absolutely understand that. But despite how crazy it sounds to some, there are those of you who do NOT wish it to end. At least, not at this point.

This is a monster. We all knew it was a monster when we signed up to play. And the fact that its gone on for quite some time has not changed the truth in any way that this game remains a monster. What we have left with is a very good group of players that all have strong wills and personalities... And a board that seems locked to some but that still actually has quite a lot of play in it.

Please do not be discouraged that, if you are one of those wanting the game to end, that it is not - in fact - ending. =P

But okay - enough blabber from me. Fall rolls around and find Holland undergoing a massive withdrawal and reorganization in the south. China continues to get gobbled up and the British in exile suddenly find two thirds of their town halls waving American flags.

The Dutch solo proposal is kicked under the table meeting defeat. In the meanwhile, a new 6-way draw (US/France/Russia/Holland/Japan/China) is proposed. Please have your yay or nay votes on that submitted to me by the Winter 1879 deadline of Saturday, November 1st (11:59 PM GMT).

Strap on those cups, gentlemen. The time-clock hasn't quite run out. =P

Cheers!

Trout

Movement results for Fall of 1879. (1879 FALL)

China: A Manchuria (mac) Supports A Mongolia (mon) - Inner Mongolia (img).
China: A Mongolia (mon) - Inner Mongolia (img).

France: F Adriatic Sea (adr) Supports F Greece (gre).
France: F The Azores (azo) Supports F Bay of Biscay (bob).
France: F Bay of Biscay (bob) Supports F Nantes (nan).
France: A Berlin (ber) Supports A Kiel (kie).
France: A Bosnia (bos) Supports F Greece (gre).
France: A Brasilia (bra) Supports F Recife (rec).
France: F Brazil Current (bcu) Supports F South Georgia Islands (sgr).
France: F Cameroon (cmn) Supports F Okrana (okn).
France: F Canary Seaway(cny) Supports F Cape Verde Islands (vrd).
France: F Cape Verde Islands (vrd) Supports F Canary Seaway(cny).
France: F Coast of Argentina (cag) Supports F Brazil Current (bcu).
France: F Drake (dra) Supports F Brazil Current (bcu).
France: F Falkland Islands (fal) Supports F Drake (dra).
France: A Galicia (gal) Supports A Sevastopol (sev).
France: A Goyamas (goy) - Cochabamba (coh).
France: F Grain Coast (gcs) Supports F Middle Atlantic (mat).
France: F Greece (gre) Supports A Bosnia (bos).
France: F Gulf of Guinea (gog) Supports F Okrana (okn).
France: F Gulf of Lyon (lyo) - Gibraltar (gib) (*Fails*).
France: F Holland (hol) Supports A Rouen (rou).
France: F Ionian Sea (ion) - Sicily (sic).
France: A Kiel (kie) Supports A Berlin (ber).
France: A La Paz (lpa) Supports A Brasilia (bra).
France: F Middle Atlantic (mat) Supports F Recife (rec).
France: F Nantes (nan) Supports F Bay of Biscay (bob).
France: F Okrana (okn) Supports F Gulf of Guinea (gog).
France: A Paris (par) Supports F Nantes (nan).
France: A Quito (qto) Supports A La Paz (lpa).
France: F Recife (rec) Supports F Middle Atlantic (mat).
France: A Rio de Janeiro (rdj) Supports F Recife (rec).
France: A Rouen (rou) Supports F Holland (hol).
France: A Ruhr (ruh) Supports A Kiel (kie).
France: A Rumania (rum) Supports A Sevastopol (sev).
France: A Serbia (ser) Supports A Bosnia (bos).
France: A Silesia (sil) Supports A Berlin (ber).
France: F South Georgia Islands (sgr) Supports F Brazil Current (bcu).
France: A Stuttgart (stu) Supports A Kiel (kie).
France: A Tawarek (twr) Supports F Tripoli (trp).
France: F Tripoli (trp) Supports A Tunis (tun) (*Cut*).
France: A Tunis (tun) Supports F Tripoli (trp).
France: F Tyrrhenian Sea (tys) Supports A Tunis (tun).
France: A Wallacia (wlc) Supports A Rumania (rum).

Holland: F Angola (agl) - South Atlantic (sat) (*Bounce*).
Holland: F Angora (ang)(nc) Supports F Black Sea (bla).
Holland: F Antarctic Atlantic Ocean (aat) - Goodhope (goo).
Holland: F Antarctic Indian Ocean(ain) Supports F Antarctic Atlantic Ocean
(aat) (*Ordered to Move*).
Holland: F Antarctic Pacific Ocean(apa) - Barrier Sea (brr).
Holland: A Armenia (arm) - Tabrize (tbr).
Holland: A Assam (asm) - Yunnan (yun).
Holland: A Aswan (asw) - Fezz (fzz) (*Fails*).
Holland: A Baku (bku) - Georgia (geo).
Holland: F Barrier Sea (brr) - New South Wales (nsw).
Holland: F Bismark Sea (bis) - Izu Trench (izu) (*Fails*).
Holland: F Black Sea (bla) Convoys A Sevastopol (sev) - Baku (bku) (*Void*).
Holland: A Bokhara (bkh) - Kasala (ksl).
Holland: A Cairo (cai) Supports F Tubruq (tbq).
Holland: A Canton (can) Supports F Hong Kong (hko) - Fuchan (fuc).
Holland: F Caroline Islands (crl) Supports F Bismark Sea (bis) - Izu Trench
(izu) (*Fails*).
Holland: A Congo (cng) Supports F Angola (agl) (*Ordered to Move*).
Holland: F Constantinople (con) Supports A Sofia (sof).
Holland: F Coral Sea (cor) - Queensland (qnl).
Holland: F Crete (cre) - Ionian Sea (ion).
Holland: F Cyprus (cyp) - Eastern Mediterranean (eas).
Holland: F Damaraland (dml) - South Atlantic (sat) (*Bounce*).
Holland: A Dar Es Sallam (dar) Supports A Aswan (asw) - Fezz (fzz) (*Fails*).
Holland: F East China Sea (ecs) - Shanghai (sha).
Holland: F Eastern Mediterranean (eas) - Aegean Sea (aeg).
Holland: F Equatorial CounterCurrent (eco) - Bismark Sea (bis) (*Fails*).
Holland: A Evenki (eve) - Yakutsk (yak).
Holland: A Fezz (fzz) - Tripoli (trp) (*Fails*).
Holland: F Fiji (fij) - Coral Sea (cor).
Holland: F Formosa (for) Hold.
Holland: F Goodhope (goo) - West Indian (win).
Holland: F Hong Kong (hko) - Fuchan (fuc).
Holland: A Inner Mongolia (img) Supports A Irkutsk (irk) - Vladivostok (vla)
(*Disbanded*).
Holland: A Irkutsk (irk) - Vladivostok (vla) (*Fails*).
Holland: F Izu Trench (izu) - Kagoshima (kag) (*Fails*).
Holland: A Karachi (krc) - Bokhara (bkh).
Holland: A Kashgar (ksg) - Kirghiz (kir).
Holland: A Kirghiz (kir) - Mongolia (mon).
Holland: A Krasnoyarsk (kra) - Evenki (eve).
Holland: A Langchow (lch) Supports A Kirghiz (kir) - Mongolia (mon).
Holland: F Luzon (luz) Supports F Philippine (phi).
Holland: F Luzon Sea (lus) - Mindanao (mnd).
Holland: F Marshal Islands (mhl) Supports F West Pacific (wpa).
Holland: F New Guinea (ngu) - Timor (tim).
Holland: F New Zealand (nzl) - Tasman (tas).
Holland: F Okinawa (oki) Supports F Bismark Sea (bis) - Izu Trench (izu)
(*Fails*).
Holland: A Omsk (oms) Supports A Baku (bku) - Georgia (geo).
Holland: A Orenburg (orn) Supports A Baku (bku) - Georgia (geo).
Holland: F Philippine (phi) Supports F Bismark Sea (bis) - Izu Trench (izu)
(*Fails*).
Holland: F Shanghai (sha) - Peking (pek).
Holland: A Sinkiang (snk) Supports A Yunnan (yun) - Chungking (chk).
Holland: A Sofia (sof) Hold.
Holland: F South Atlantic (sat) - Cape Town (ctn).
Holland: F South China Sea (scs) Hold.
Holland: F South West Pacific (swp) - Equatorial CounterCurrent (eco) (*Fails*).
Holland: F Syria (syr)(wc) Supports F Cyprus (cyp) - Eastern Mediterranean
(eas).
Holland: A Tashkent (tsh) - Krasnoyarsk (kra).
Holland: A Tibet (tib) - Kashgar (ksg).
Holland: A Tonkin (tnk) Supports A Canton (can).
Holland: F Tubruq (tbq) Supports F Crete (cre) - Ionian Sea (ion).
Holland: F West Pacific (wpa) Supports F Kuril (kur) (*Ordered to Move*).
Holland: A Wuhan (wuh) Supports F Shanghai (sha) - Peking (pek).
Holland: A Yunnan (yun) - Chungking (chk).

Japan: F Edo (edo) Supports F Bering Sea (bse) - Kuril (kur).
Japan: F Fusan (fsn) Supports F Yellow Sea (yse).
Japan: F Kagoshima (kag) Supports F Yellow Sea (yse) (*Cut*).
Japan: F Kuril (kur) - Sapporo (sap).
Japan: F Port Arthur (poa) Supports A Manchuria (mac).
Japan: F Sea of Japan (soj) Supports F Yellow Sea (yse).
Japan: F Seoul (seo)(wc) Supports F Yellow Sea (yse).
Japan: A Vladivostok (vla) Hold.
Japan: F Yellow Sea (yse) Hold.

Russia: A Warsaw (war) Supports A Sevastopol (sev).
Russia: A Perm (prm) Supports A Moscow (mos).
Russia: A Sevastopol (sev) Supports A Moscow (mos).
Russia: A Moscow (mos) Supports A Perm (prm).

USA: A Alaska (ala) Hold.
USA: A Amazon (ama) Supports A Pramaiba (pra).
USA: F Baltic Sea (bal) Supports F North Sea (nth) - Denmark (den).
USA: A Barcelone (brc) Supports A Amazon (ama).
USA: F Barents Sea (bar) - Norway (nwy).
USA: F Bering Sea (bse) - Kuril (kur).
USA: A Caledonia (cld) Supports A Pramaiba (pra).
USA: F Cayenne (cyn) Supports F North East Trades (net).
USA: F Chesapeake Approaches (che) Supports F North Atlantic (nat).
USA: F Chilean Basin (cba) Supports F Drake (dra).
USA: F Counter Current (ccu) Supports F Hawaii (haw).
USA: F Denmark (den) - Sweden (swe).
USA: F Eastern Carribean (eca) Supports F Sargasso (sar).
USA: F Eastern Pacific (epa) Supports F Kirbati Sea (kse).
USA: F Eastern Seaboard (ese) Supports F North Atlantic (nat).
USA: F Finland (fin)(nc) Supports A St Petersburg (stp).
USA: F Gulf of Bothnia (bot) Supports F Baltic Sea (bal).
USA: F Hawaii (haw) Supports F Kirbati Sea (kse).
USA: F Helgoland Bight (hel) Supports F Norwegian Sea (nwg) - North Sea (nth).
USA: F Hudson (hud) Hold.
USA: F Kamchatka (kam) Supports F Bering Sea (bse) - Kuril (kur).
USA: F Kirbati Sea (kse) Hold.
USA: A Lima (lim) Supports A Amazon (ama).
USA: A Livonia (lvn) Supports A Moscow (mos).
USA: F North Atlantic (nat) Hold.
USA: F North East Trades (net) Hold.
USA: F North Pacific (npa) Supports F Westerlies (wst).
USA: F North Sea (nth) - Denmark (den).
USA: F Norwegian Sea (nwg) - North Sea (nth).
USA: F Nova Scotia (nsc) Supports F North Atlantic (nat).
USA: F Okhotsk (okh) Supports A Vladivostok (vla).
USA: F Pacific Basin (pba) Supports F Chilean Basin (cba).
USA: A Pramaiba (pra) Supports A Amazon (ama).
USA: A Ruperts Land (rla) Hold.
USA: F Sargasso (sar) Hold.
USA: F Society Islands (sct) Supports F South Pacific (spa).
USA: F South Pacific (spa) Hold.
USA: A St Petersburg (stp) Supports A Perm (prm).
USA: F Virgin Islands (vis) Supports F Sargasso (sar).
USA: F Westerlies (wst) Supports F Bering Sea (bse) - Kuril (kur).

Unit locations:

China: A Inner Mongolia (img), A Manchuria (mac).
France: F Adriatic Sea (adr), F The Azores (azo), F Bay of Biscay (bob), A
Berlin (ber), A Bosnia (bos), A Brasilia (bra), F Brazil Current
(bcu), F Cameroon (cmn), F Canary Seaway(cny), F Cape Verde Islands
(vrd), F Coast of Argentina (cag), A Cochabamba (coh), F Drake (dra),
F Falkland Islands (fal), A Galicia (gal), F Grain Coast (gcs), F
Greece (gre), F Gulf of Guinea (gog), F Gulf of Lyon (lyo), F Holland
(hol), A Kiel (kie), A La Paz (lpa), F Middle Atlantic (mat), F Nantes
(nan), F Okrana (okn), A Paris (par), A Quito (qto), F Recife (rec), A
Rio de Janeiro (rdj), A Rouen (rou), A Ruhr (ruh), A Rumania (rum), A
Serbia (ser), F Sicily (sic), A Silesia (sil), F South Georgia Islands
(sgr), A Stuttgart (stu), A Tawarek (twr), F Tripoli (trp), A Tunis
(tun), F Tyrrhenian Sea (tys), A Wallacia (wlc).
Holland: F Aegean Sea (aeg), F Angola (agl), F Angora (ang)(nc), F Antarctic
Indian Ocean(ain), A Aswan (asw), F Barrier Sea (brr), F Bismark Sea
(bis), F Black Sea (bla), A Bokhara (bkh), A Cairo (cai), A Canton
(can), F Cape Town (ctn), F Caroline Islands (crl), A Chungking (chk),
A Congo (cng), F Constantinople (con), F Coral Sea (cor), F Damaraland
(dml), A Dar Es Sallam (dar), F Eastern Mediterranean (eas), F
Equatorial CounterCurrent (eco), A Evenki (eve), A Fezz (fzz), F
Formosa (for), F Fuchan (fuc), A Georgia (geo), F Goodhope (goo), A
Inner Mongolia (img), F Ionian Sea (ion), A Irkutsk (irk), F Izu
Trench (izu), A Kasala (ksl), A Kashgar (ksg), A Kirghiz (kir), A
Krasnoyarsk (kra), A Langchow (lch), F Luzon (luz), F Marshal Islands
(mhl), F Mindanao (mnd), A Mongolia (mon), F New South Wales (nsw), F
Okinawa (oki), A Omsk (oms), A Orenburg (orn), F Peking (pek), F
Philippine (phi), F Queensland (qnl), F Shanghai (sha), A Sinkiang
(snk), A Sofia (sof), F South China Sea (scs), F South West Pacific
(swp), F Syria (syr)(wc), A Tabrize (tbr), F Tasman (tas), F Timor
(tim), A Tonkin (tnk), F Tubruq (tbq), F West Indian (win), F West
Pacific (wpa), A Wuhan (wuh), A Yakutsk (yak), A Yunnan (yun).
Japan: F Edo (edo), F Fusan (fsn), F Kagoshima (kag), F Port Arthur (poa), F
Sapporo (sap), F Sea of Japan (soj), F Seoul (seo)(wc), A Vladivostok
(vla), F Yellow Sea (yse).
Russia: A Warsaw (war), A Perm (prm), A Sevastopol (sev), A Moscow (mos).
USA: A Alaska (ala), A Amazon (ama), F Baltic Sea (bal), A Barcelone (brc),
A Caledonia (cld), F Cayenne (cyn), F Chesapeake Approaches (che), F
Chilean Basin (cba), F Counter Current (ccu), F Denmark (den), F
Eastern Carribean (eca), F Eastern Pacific (epa), F Eastern Seaboard
(ese), F Finland (fin)(nc), F Gulf of Bothnia (bot), F Hawaii (haw), F
Helgoland Bight (hel), F Hudson (hud), F Kamchatka (kam), F Kirbati
Sea (kse), F Kuril (kur), A Lima (lim), A Livonia (lvn), F North
Atlantic (nat), F North East Trades (net), F North Pacific (npa), F
North Sea (nth), F Norway (nwy), F Nova Scotia (nsc), F Okhotsk (okh),
F Pacific Basin (pba), A Pramaiba (pra), A Ruperts Land (rla), F
Sargasso (sar), F Society Islands (sct), F South Pacific (spa), A St
Petersburg (stp), F Sweden (swe), F Virgin Islands (vis), F Westerlies
(wst).

Ownership of supply centers:

Britain: Greenland (grn).
China: Manchuria (mac).
France: The Azores (azo), Bavaria (bav), Berlin (ber), Brasilia (bra),
Budapest (bud), Cameroon (cmn), Cape Verde Islands (vrd), Corsica
(crs), Crete (cre), Croatia (cro), Falkland Islands (fal), Gibraltar
(gib), Grain Coast (gcs), Greece (gre), Holland (hol), Ivory Coast
(ivc), Kiel (kie), La Paz (lpa), Marseilles (mar), Monrovia (mnv),
Morocco (mrc), Nantes (nan), Okrana (okn), Oliveira (oli), Paraguay
(prg), Paris (par), Piedmont (pie), Recife (rec), Rio de Janeiro
(rdj), Rome (rom), Ruhr (ruh), Rumania (rum), Salerno (sal), Serbia
(ser), Sicily (sic), Sierra Leone (sie), Silesia (sil), South Georgia
Islands (sgr), Stuttgart (stu), Tripoli (trp), Tunis (tun), Uruguay
(uru), Valencia (vlc), Venice (ven), Vienna (vie).
Holland: Abyssinia (aby), Aden (ade), Andaman Islands (amn), Angora (ang),
Baghdad (bag), Baku (bku), Bangalore (ban), Bangkok (bnk), Bengal
(ben), Bombay (bom), Borneo (brn), Botswana (bsw), Burma (brm), Cairo
(cai), Cambodia (cmb), Canton (can), Cape Town (ctn), Caroline Islands
(crl), Ceylon (cey), Chungking (chk), Cochin (cch), Constantinople
(con), Cyprus (cyp), Delhi (del), Fiji (fij), Formosa (for), Georgia
(geo), Hong Kong (hko), Irian Java (ija), Irkutsk (irk), Java (jav),
Karachi (krc), Kashmir (kas), Khiva (khv), Luzon (luz), Madagascar
(mad), Madras (mds), Malaysia (mal), Maldives (mld), Marshal Islands
(mhl), Mindanao (mnd), New Guinea (ngu), New South Wales (nsw), New
Zealand (nzl), Okinawa (oki), Oman (oma), Omsk (oms), Orenburg (orn),
Peking (pek), Perth (per), Queensland (qnl), Rangoon (rng), Rhodesia
(rho), Sarawak (srw), Seychelles (sey), Shanghai (sha), Singapore
(sin), Sinkiang (snk), Sofia (sof), Sudan (sud), Sumatra (sum),
Tashkent (tsh), Tehran (teh), Tonkin (tnk), Transvaal (trn), Wuhan
(wuh), Yuthia (yut).
Japan: Edo (edo), Fusan (fsn), Kagoshima (kag), Port Arthur (poa), Sakhurlin
(sak), Sapporo (sap), Seoul (seo), Vladivostok (vla).
Russia: Warsaw (war), Prussia (pru), Sevastopol (sev), Moscow (mos).
USA: Alberta (alb), Anchorage (anc), Atlanta (atl), Austin (aus), The
Bahamas (bah), Barcelone (brc), Bogota (bgt), Cayenne (cyn), Chicago
(chc), Cuba (cub), Denmark (den), Detroit (det), Dublin (dub),
Edinburgh (edi), Galapagos (glp), Haiti (hai), Hawaii (haw), Honduras
(hon), Kansas (kan), Lima (lim), London (lon), Mazatlan (maz), Merida
(mer), Mexico City (mex), Nebraska (neb), New Mexico (nme), New
Orleans (nol), New York (nyc), Norway (nwy), Nova Scotia (nsc),
Oklahoma (okl), Oregon (ore), Panama (pan), Paramaribo (pmb), Quebec
(que), Richmond (ric), San Francisco (sfo), Seattle (sea), Society
Islands (sct), St Petersburg (stp), Sweden (swe), Vancouver (van),
Victoria (vic), Virgin Islands (vis), Washington DC (wdc), Yukon (yuk).

Austria: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
Brazil: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
Britain: 1 Supply center , 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
China: 1 Supply center , 2 Units: Removes 1 unit.
CSA: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
France: 45 Supply centers, 42 Units: Builds 3 units.
Holland: 67 Supply centers, 63 Units: Builds 4 units.
Japan: 8 Supply centers, 9 Units: Removes 1 unit.
Mexico: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
Prussia: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
Russia: 4 Supply centers, 4 Units: Builds 0 units.
Turkey: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
USA: 46 Supply centers, 40 Units: Builds 6 units.


NEXT DEADLINE: WINTER 1879 ADJUSTMENTS DUE SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 1ST (11:59 PM GMT)!!






________________________________
Now with a new friend-happy design! Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger

[Reply]

From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Guns, Germs and Steel 1264 / DC110 - Fall 1879 - Till the Fat Lady Sings...
To: sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com
Cc: "Cat23 1200 List" <Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com>, "dc110" <DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com>, "Rob Ackerley" <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca>, "David E Watson" <dipknight(at)comcast.net>, "Jerry Todd" <sgttodd(at)mainecav.org>, "Jim Atkins" <savwa4(at)comcast.net>, "Lee Taylor" <leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk>, "Mike Hoffman" <mrh(at)panix.com>, "Randolph" <ruffhaus8(at)aol.com>, "Rob Bristol" <rBristol(at)cargojet.com>, "Rob Bristol" <rbristol(at)cogeco.ca>, "Rudi Van Hal" <rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl>, "Rupert Armstrong" <writetorupert(at)gmail.com>, "Steve Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>, "Suzanne Castagne" <sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr>, "Ted Morley" <ee_morley(at)hotmail.com>, "Ted Morley" <Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov>
Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 12:43 AM

In clarification.
The pertinent part of my HRs is Section IX Paragraph (2) - which reads in part:

If, after a period of 4 game years, no Supply Centers have changed ownership, the GM reserves the right, after a warning is given, to declare a draw including all survivors...


The remainder of that paragraph is void in this instance, as I will enforce a DIAS if 4 game years elapse without centers changing hands.


Concerning the variant rules - unless any player has objection we will allow the optional rule of ending the game on Spring 1901. If this occurs, the game result will also be a DIAS.


Trout




On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 3:04 PM, Paolo Sforza <sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com ([email]sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:9bffabc326]
Hi Trout,

Just so we all know where we are then I formally ask the question.

This game can finish as a solo on 70 SCs - we all know that. No problem. It can also end as an n-way DRAW if such a proposal is unanimously passed. Again, no problem. All clear as crystal. However, as we could be heading towards game end, sooner rather than later, then exactly what criteria need to met and what duration do these criteria need to in place for you to call a DIAS? Is there an objective set of criteria for the DIAS that we play towards? There is an optional rule (is it in force?) that says '...the game will also end on Spring 1901 should no player possess the required number of supply centers'. The variant optional rule doesn't say what the result will be at game end. Just that the game will end. Is this also a DIAS?

Cheers and thanks,

Paolo.

--- On Thu, 10/30/08, Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Subject: Re: Guns, Germs and Steel 1264 / DC110 - Fall 1879 - Till the Fat Lady Sings...
To: sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com ([email]sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Cc: "Cat23 1200 List" <Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com ([email]Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com[/email])>, "dc110" <DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])>, "Rob Ackerley" <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>, "David E Watson" <dipknight(at)comcast.net ([email]dipknight(at)comcast.net[/email])>, "Jerry Todd" <sgttodd(at)mainecav.org ([email]sgttodd(at)mainecav.org[/email])>, "Jim Atkins" <savwa4(at)comcast.net ([email]savwa4(at)comcast.net[/email])>, "Lee Taylor" <leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk ([email]leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk[/email])>, "Mike Hoffman" <mrh(at)panix.com ([email]mrh(at)panix.com[/email])>, "Randolph" <ruffhaus8(at)aol.com ([email]ruffhaus8(at)aol.com[/email])>, "Rob Bristol" <rBristol(at)cargojet.com ([email]rBristol(at)cargojet.com[/email])>, "Rob Bristol" <rbristol(at)cogeco.ca ([email]rbristol(at)cogeco.ca[/email])>, "Rudi Van Hal" <rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl ([email]rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl[/email])>, "Rupert Armstrong" <writetorupert(at)gmail.com ([email]writetorupert(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "Steve Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "Suzanne Castagne" <sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr ([email]sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr[/email])>, "Ted Morley" <ee_morley(at)hotmail.com ([email]ee_morley(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "Ted Morley" <Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov ([email]Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov[/email])>
Date: Thursday, October 30, 2008, 3:52 PM

For the record.
Any players that do not wish to participate in this game are not held hostage to it. If you wish to abandon this game, please just let me know and I will find a replacement to finish the game off.
It will be labelled a game abandon, however, on the DC club stats. There is nothing I can do about that.
If any player has issues with my House Rules or my GMing style, I will be very happy to entertain your personal grievances in private.
Cheers!
Trout

On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Paolo Sforza <sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com ([email]sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:9bffabc326]
Hi guys,

I think I put in this 6-way for last turn, but just in case it is someone else's 6-way proposal, I'd better vote. YES, to the 6-way (China, France, Holland, Japan, Russia, USA) DRAW.

Everyone knows the stalemate line, so as long as it is maintained I shall be putting in this proposal every turn and voting down any other proposition. My family is very long lived so I should see the end. Assuming the House Rules are followed then this game should be over in 4 (L-O-N-G) game year's time when the GM calls a DIAS. I have to mention this now because I don't want this monster to go on a moment longer than necessary. If ANYONE has problems (I absolutely don't) with Steve sharing in this DIAS - so effectively making this a 7-way DRAW then they'd better call for his elimination NOW as this will be an SC change and so the 4-game year clock won't start ticking until after this elimination. If Rupert eliminates Steve in Spring and Rudi keeps voting down the 6-way then the game should end just after Spring 1883 - I make that 3 months (late January) based on how slowly this monstrosity has lurched forward so far (GAWD SAVE US!)

The House Rules say (God forbid we ever actually follow the House Rules, of course) that the movement turns could be a minimum of 2 days duration. If Trout would reduce to this duration AND/OR remove his prohibition on perpetual orders then we could get this nonsense over and done with in a couple of weeks (still far too long in my book).

Like I said, I think, once before. This is game is about as exciting as watching anti-climb paint dry. This is supposed to be a 'short' game as it only requires 70 SCs for a SOLO. Even that fudge can't make this enjoyable. Who the hell invents this crappy huge games, riddled with stalemate lines? Rhetorical question - I DON'T want to know anything more about Imperial2,

Just thought! If packrat is right and REing is the same as FWDing - I might be lucky enough to be replaced! Cor, there IS light at the end of the tunnel.

Cheers to all,

Paolo.





--- On Thu, 10/30/08, Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])> wrote:

From: Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>
Subject: Re: Guns, Germs and Steel 1264 / DC110 - Fall 1879 - Till the Fat Lady Sings...
To: "Former Trout" <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "Cat23 1200 List" <Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com ([email]Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com[/email])>, "dc110" <DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])>
Cc: "David E Watson" <dipknight(at)comcast.net ([email]dipknight(at)comcast.net[/email])>, "Jerry Todd" <sgttodd(at)mainecav.org ([email]sgttodd(at)mainecav.org[/email])>, "Jim Atkins" <savwa4(at)comcast.net ([email]savwa4(at)comcast.net[/email])>, "Lee Taylor" <leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk ([email]leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk[/email])>, "Mike Hoffman" <mrh(at)panix.com ([email]mrh(at)panix.com[/email])>, "Paolo Sforza" <sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com ([email]sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "Randolph" <ruffhaus8(at)aol.com ([email]ruffhaus8(at)aol.com[/email])>, "Rob Bristol" <rBristol(at)cargojet.com ([email]rBristol(at)cargojet.com[/email])>, "Rob Bristol" <rbristol(at)cogeco.ca ([email]rbristol(at)cogeco.ca[/email])>, "Rudi Van Hal" <rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl ([email]rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl[/email])>, "Rupert Armstrong" <writetorupert(at)gmail.com ([email]writetorupert(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "Steve Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "Suzanne Castagne" <sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr ([email]sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr[/email])>, "Ted Morley" <ee_morley(at)hotmail.com ([email]ee_morley(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "Ted Morley" <Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov ([email]Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov[/email])>
Date: Thursday, October 30, 2008, 12:55 PM

YES vote from Russia.

________________________________
From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Cat23 1200 List <Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com ([email]Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com[/email])>; dc110 <DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])>
Cc: David E Watson <dipknight(at)comcast.net ([email]dipknight(at)comcast.net[/email])>; Jerry Todd <sgttodd(at)mainecav.org ([email]sgttodd(at)mainecav.org[/email])>; Jim Atkins <savwa4(at)comcast.net ([email]savwa4(at)comcast.net[/email])>; Lee Taylor <leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk ([email]leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk[/email])>; Mike Hoffman <mrh(at)panix.com ([email]mrh(at)panix.com[/email])>; Paolo Sforza <sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com ([email]sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Randolph <ruffhaus8(at)aol.com ([email]ruffhaus8(at)aol.com[/email])>; Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; Rob Bristol <rBristol(at)cargojet.com ([email]rBristol(at)cargojet.com[/email])>; Rob Bristol <rbristol(at)cogeco.ca ([email]rbristol(at)cogeco.ca[/email])>; Rudi Van Hal <rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl ([email]rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl[/email])>; Rupert Armstrong <writetorupert(at)gmail.com ([email]writetorupert(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Steve Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Suzanne Castagne <sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr ([email]sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr[/email])>; Ted Morley <ee_morley(at)hotmail.com ([email]ee_morley(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Ted Morley <Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov ([email]Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov[/email])>
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 10:51:42 AM
Subject: Guns, Germs and Steel 1264 / DC110 - Fall 1879 - Till the Fat Lady Sings...

- TEMPERS FLARE AS WORLD REALIZES ... IT AIN'T OVER!!
- MEAT TENDERIZERS AND ATHLETIC CUPS FLY OFF SHELVES WORLD-WIDE

Okie. Lets all sit around the fire and have a short talk.

Some of you wish to end this game. I absolutely understand that. But despite how crazy it sounds to some, there are those of you who do NOT wish it to end. At least, not at this point.

This is a monster. We all knew it was a monster when we signed up to play. And the fact that its gone on for quite some time has not changed the truth in any way that this game remains a monster. What we have left with is a very good group of players that all have strong wills and personalities... And a board that seems locked to some but that still actually has quite a lot of play in it.

Please do not be discouraged that, if you are one of those wanting the game to end, that it is not - in fact - ending. =P

But okay - enough blabber from me. Fall rolls around and find Holland undergoing a massive withdrawal and reorganization in the south. China continues to get gobbled up and the British in exile suddenly find two thirds of their town halls waving American flags.

The Dutch solo proposal is kicked under the table meeting defeat. In the meanwhile, a new 6-way draw (US/France/Russia/Holland/Japan/China) is proposed. Please have your yay or nay votes on that submitted to me by the Winter 1879 deadline of Saturday, November 1st (11:59 PM GMT).

Strap on those cups, gentlemen. The time-clock hasn't quite run out. =P

Cheers!

Trout

Movement results for Fall of 1879. (1879 FALL)

China: A Manchuria (mac) Supports A Mongolia (mon) - Inner Mongolia (img).
China: A Mongolia (mon) - Inner Mongolia (img).

France: F Adriatic Sea (adr) Supports F Greece (gre).
France: F The Azores (azo) Supports F Bay of Biscay (bob).
France: F Bay of Biscay (bob) Supports F Nantes (nan).
France: A Berlin (ber) Supports A Kiel (kie).
France: A Bosnia (bos) Supports F Greece (gre).
France: A Brasilia (bra) Supports F Recife (rec).
France: F Brazil Current (bcu) Supports F South Georgia Islands (sgr).
France: F Cameroon (cmn) Supports F Okrana (okn).
France: F Canary Seaway(cny) Supports F Cape Verde Islands (vrd).
France: F Cape Verde Islands (vrd) Supports F Canary Seaway(cny).
France: F Coast of Argentina (cag) Supports F Brazil Current (bcu).
France: F Drake (dra) Supports F Brazil Current (bcu).
France: F Falkland Islands (fal) Supports F Drake (dra).
France: A Galicia (gal) Supports A Sevastopol (sev).
France: A Goyamas (goy) - Cochabamba (coh).
France: F Grain Coast (gcs) Supports F Middle Atlantic (mat).
France: F Greece (gre) Supports A Bosnia (bos).
France: F Gulf of Guinea (gog) Supports F Okrana (okn).
France: F Gulf of Lyon (lyo) - Gibraltar (gib) (*Fails*).
France: F Holland (hol) Supports A Rouen (rou).
France: F Ionian Sea (ion) - Sicily (sic).
France: A Kiel (kie) Supports A Berlin (ber).
France: A La Paz (lpa) Supports A Brasilia (bra).
France: F Middle Atlantic (mat) Supports F Recife (rec).
France: F Nantes (nan) Supports F Bay of Biscay (bob).
France: F Okrana (okn) Supports F Gulf of Guinea (gog).
France: A Paris (par) Supports F Nantes (nan).
France: A Quito (qto) Supports A La Paz (lpa).
France: F Recife (rec) Supports F Middle Atlantic (mat).
France: A Rio de Janeiro (rdj) Supports F Recife (rec).
France: A Rouen (rou) Supports F Holland (hol).
France: A Ruhr (ruh) Supports A Kiel (kie).
France: A Rumania (rum) Supports A Sevastopol (sev).
France: A Serbia (ser) Supports A Bosnia (bos).
France: A Silesia (sil) Supports A Berlin (ber).
France: F South Georgia Islands (sgr) Supports F Brazil Current (bcu).
France: A Stuttgart (stu) Supports A Kiel (kie).
France: A Tawarek (twr) Supports F Tripoli (trp).
France: F Tripoli (trp) Supports A Tunis (tun) (*Cut*).
France: A Tunis (tun) Supports F Tripoli (trp).
France: F Tyrrhenian Sea (tys) Supports A Tunis (tun).
France: A Wallacia (wlc) Supports A Rumania (rum).

Holland: F Angola (agl) - South Atlantic (sat) (*Bounce*).
Holland: F Angora (ang)(nc) Supports F Black Sea (bla).
Holland: F Antarctic Atlantic Ocean (aat) - Goodhope (goo).
Holland: F Antarctic Indian Ocean(ain) Supports F Antarctic Atlantic Ocean
(aat) (*Ordered to Move*).
Holland: F Antarctic Pacific Ocean(apa) - Barrier Sea (brr).
Holland: A Armenia (arm) - Tabrize (tbr).
Holland: A Assam (asm) - Yunnan (yun).
Holland: A Aswan (asw) - Fezz (fzz) (*Fails*).
Holland: A Baku (bku) - Georgia (geo).
Holland: F Barrier Sea (brr) - New South Wales (nsw).
Holland: F Bismark Sea (bis) - Izu Trench (izu) (*Fails*).
Holland: F Black Sea (bla) Convoys A Sevastopol (sev) - Baku (bku) (*Void*).
Holland: A Bokhara (bkh) - Kasala (ksl).
Holland: A Cairo (cai) Supports F Tubruq (tbq).
Holland: A Canton (can) Supports F Hong Kong (hko) - Fuchan (fuc).
Holland: F Caroline Islands (crl) Supports F Bismark Sea (bis) - Izu Trench
(izu) (*Fails*).
Holland: A Congo (cng) Supports F Angola (agl) (*Ordered to Move*).
Holland: F Constantinople (con) Supports A Sofia (sof).
Holland: F Coral Sea (cor) - Queensland (qnl).
Holland: F Crete (cre) - Ionian Sea (ion).
Holland: F Cyprus (cyp) - Eastern Mediterranean (eas).
Holland: F Damaraland (dml) - South Atlantic (sat) (*Bounce*).
Holland: A Dar Es Sallam (dar) Supports A Aswan (asw) - Fezz (fzz) (*Fails*).
Holland: F East China Sea (ecs) - Shanghai (sha).
Holland: F Eastern Mediterranean (eas) - Aegean Sea (aeg).
Holland: F Equatorial CounterCurrent (eco) - Bismark Sea (bis) (*Fails*).
Holland: A Evenki (eve) - Yakutsk (yak).
Holland: A Fezz (fzz) - Tripoli (trp) (*Fails*).
Holland: F Fiji (fij) - Coral Sea (cor).
Holland: F Formosa (for) Hold.
Holland: F Goodhope (goo) - West Indian (win).
Holland: F Hong Kong (hko) - Fuchan (fuc).
Holland: A Inner Mongolia (img) Supports A Irkutsk (irk) - Vladivostok (vla)
(*Disbanded*).
Holland: A Irkutsk (irk) - Vladivostok (vla) (*Fails*).
Holland: F Izu Trench (izu) - Kagoshima (kag) (*Fails*).
Holland: A Karachi (krc) - Bokhara (bkh).
Holland: A Kashgar (ksg) - Kirghiz (kir).
Holland: A Kirghiz (kir) - Mongolia (mon).
Holland: A Krasnoyarsk (kra) - Evenki (eve).
Holland: A Langchow (lch) Supports A Kirghiz (kir) - Mongolia (mon).
Holland: F Luzon (luz) Supports F Philippine (phi).
Holland: F Luzon Sea (lus) - Mindanao (mnd).
Holland: F Marshal Islands (mhl) Supports F West Pacific (wpa).
Holland: F New Guinea (ngu) - Timor (tim).
Holland: F New Zealand (nzl) - Tasman (tas).
Holland: F Okinawa (oki) Supports F Bismark Sea (bis) - Izu Trench (izu)
(*Fails*).
Holland: A Omsk (oms) Supports A Baku (bku) - Georgia (geo).
Holland: A Orenburg (orn) Supports A Baku (bku) - Georgia (geo).
Holland: F Philippine (phi) Supports F Bismark Sea (bis) - Izu Trench (izu)
(*Fails*).
Holland: F Shanghai (sha) - Peking (pek).
Holland: A Sinkiang (snk) Supports A Yunnan (yun) - Chungking (chk).
Holland: A Sofia (sof) Hold.
Holland: F South Atlantic (sat) - Cape Town (ctn).
Holland: F South China Sea (scs) Hold.
Holland: F South West Pacific (swp) - Equatorial CounterCurrent (eco) (*Fails*).
Holland: F Syria (syr)(wc) Supports F Cyprus (cyp) - Eastern Mediterranean
(eas).
Holland: A Tashkent (tsh) - Krasnoyarsk (kra).
Holland: A Tibet (tib) - Kashgar (ksg).
Holland: A Tonkin (tnk) Supports A Canton (can).
Holland: F Tubruq (tbq) Supports F Crete (cre) - Ionian Sea (ion).
Holland: F West Pacific (wpa) Supports F Kuril (kur) (*Ordered to Move*).
Holland: A Wuhan (wuh) Supports F Shanghai (sha) - Peking (pek).
Holland: A Yunnan (yun) - Chungking (chk).

Japan: F Edo (edo) Supports F Bering Sea (bse) - Kuril (kur).
Japan: F Fusan (fsn) Supports F Yellow Sea (yse).
Japan: F Kagoshima (kag) Supports F Yellow Sea (yse) (*Cut*).
Japan: F Kuril (kur) - Sapporo (sap).
Japan: F Port Arthur (poa) Supports A Manchuria (mac).
Japan: F Sea of Japan (soj) Supports F Yellow Sea (yse).
Japan: F Seoul (seo)(wc) Supports F Yellow Sea (yse).
Japan: A Vladivostok (vla) Hold.
Japan: F Yellow Sea (yse) Hold.

Russia: A Warsaw (war) Supports A Sevastopol (sev).
Russia: A Perm (prm) Supports A Moscow (mos).
Russia: A Sevastopol (sev) Supports A Moscow (mos).
Russia: A Moscow (mos) Supports A Perm (prm).

USA: A Alaska (ala) Hold.
USA: A Amazon (ama) Supports A Pramaiba (pra).
USA: F Baltic Sea (bal) Supports F North Sea (nth) - Denmark (den).
USA: A Barcelone (brc) Supports A Amazon (ama).
USA: F Barents Sea (bar) - Norway (nwy).
USA: F Bering Sea (bse) - Kuril (kur).
USA: A Caledonia (cld) Supports A Pramaiba (pra).
USA: F Cayenne (cyn) Supports F North East Trades (net).
USA: F Chesapeake Approaches (che) Supports F North Atlantic (nat).
USA: F Chilean Basin (cba) Supports F Drake (dra).
USA: F Counter Current (ccu) Supports F Hawaii (haw).
USA: F Denmark (den) - Sweden (swe).
USA: F Eastern Carribean (eca) Supports F Sargasso (sar).
USA: F Eastern Pacific (epa) Supports F Kirbati Sea (kse).
USA: F Eastern Seaboard (ese) Supports F North Atlantic (nat).
USA: F Finland (fin)(nc) Supports A St Petersburg (stp).
USA: F Gulf of Bothnia (bot) Supports F Baltic Sea (bal).
USA: F Hawaii (haw) Supports F Kirbati Sea (kse).
USA: F Helgoland Bight (hel) Supports F Norwegian Sea (nwg) - North Sea (nth).
USA: F Hudson (hud) Hold.
USA: F Kamchatka (kam) Supports F Bering Sea (bse) - Kuril (kur).
USA: F Kirbati Sea (kse) Hold.
USA: A Lima (lim) Supports A Amazon (ama).
USA: A Livonia (lvn) Supports A Moscow (mos).
USA: F North Atlantic (nat) Hold.
USA: F North East Trades (net) Hold.
USA: F North Pacific (npa) Supports F Westerlies (wst).
USA: F North Sea (nth) - Denmark (den).
USA: F Norwegian Sea (nwg) - North Sea (nth).
USA: F Nova Scotia (nsc) Supports F North Atlantic (nat).
USA: F Okhotsk (okh) Supports A Vladivostok (vla).
USA: F Pacific Basin (pba) Supports F Chilean Basin (cba).
USA: A Pramaiba (pra) Supports A Amazon (ama).
USA: A Ruperts Land (rla) Hold.
USA: F Sargasso (sar) Hold.
USA: F Society Islands (sct) Supports F South Pacific (spa).
USA: F South Pacific (spa) Hold.
USA: A St Petersburg (stp) Supports A Perm (prm).
USA: F Virgin Islands (vis) Supports F Sargasso (sar).
USA: F Westerlies (wst) Supports F Bering Sea (bse) - Kuril (kur).

Unit locations:

China: A Inner Mongolia (img), A Manchuria (mac).
France: F Adriatic Sea (adr), F The Azores (azo), F Bay of Biscay (bob), A
Berlin (ber), A Bosnia (bos), A Brasilia (bra), F Brazil Current
(bcu), F Cameroon (cmn), F Canary Seaway(cny), F Cape Verde Islands
(vrd), F Coast of Argentina (cag), A Cochabamba (coh), F Drake (dra),
F Falkland Islands (fal), A Galicia (gal), F Grain Coast (gcs), F
Greece (gre), F Gulf of Guinea (gog), F Gulf of Lyon (lyo), F Holland
(hol), A Kiel (kie), A La Paz (lpa), F Middle Atlantic (mat), F Nantes
(nan), F Okrana (okn), A Paris (par), A Quito (qto), F Recife (rec), A
Rio de Janeiro (rdj), A Rouen (rou), A Ruhr (ruh), A Rumania (rum), A
Serbia (ser), F Sicily (sic), A Silesia (sil), F South Georgia Islands
(sgr), A Stuttgart (stu), A Tawarek (twr), F Tripoli (trp), A Tunis
(tun), F Tyrrhenian Sea (tys), A Wallacia (wlc).
Holland: F Aegean Sea (aeg), F Angola (agl), F Angora (ang)(nc), F Antarctic
Indian Ocean(ain), A Aswan (asw), F Barrier Sea (brr), F Bismark Sea
(bis), F Black Sea (bla), A Bokhara (bkh), A Cairo (cai), A Canton
(can), F Cape Town (ctn), F Caroline Islands (crl), A Chungking (chk),
A Congo (cng), F Constantinople (con), F Coral Sea (cor), F Damaraland
(dml), A Dar Es Sallam (dar), F Eastern Mediterranean (eas), F
Equatorial CounterCurrent (eco), A Evenki (eve), A Fezz (fzz), F
Formosa (for), F Fuchan (fuc), A Georgia (geo), F Goodhope (goo), A
Inner Mongolia (img), F Ionian Sea (ion), A Irkutsk (irk), F Izu
Trench (izu), A Kasala (ksl), A Kashgar (ksg), A Kirghiz (kir), A
Krasnoyarsk (kra), A Langchow (lch), F Luzon (luz), F Marshal Islands
(mhl), F Mindanao (mnd), A Mongolia (mon), F New South Wales (nsw), F
Okinawa (oki), A Omsk (oms), A Orenburg (orn), F Peking (pek), F
Philippine (phi), F Queensland (qnl), F Shanghai (sha), A Sinkiang
(snk), A Sofia (sof), F South China Sea (scs), F South West Pacific
(swp), F Syria (syr)(wc), A Tabrize (tbr), F Tasman (tas), F Timor
(tim), A Tonkin (tnk), F Tubruq (tbq), F West Indian (win), F West
Pacific (wpa), A Wuhan (wuh), A Yakutsk (yak), A Yunnan (yun).
Japan: F Edo (edo), F Fusan (fsn), F Kagoshima (kag), F Port Arthur (poa), F
Sapporo (sap), F Sea of Japan (soj), F Seoul (seo)(wc), A Vladivostok
(vla), F Yellow Sea (yse).
Russia: A Warsaw (war), A Perm (prm), A Sevastopol (sev), A Moscow (mos).
USA: A Alaska (ala), A Amazon (ama), F Baltic Sea (bal), A Barcelone (brc),
A Caledonia (cld), F Cayenne (cyn), F Chesapeake Approaches (che), F
Chilean Basin (cba), F Counter Current (ccu), F Denmark (den), F
Eastern Carribean (eca), F Eastern Pacific (epa), F Eastern Seaboard
(ese), F Finland (fin)(nc), F Gulf of Bothnia (bot), F Hawaii (haw), F
Helgoland Bight (hel), F Hudson (hud), F Kamchatka (kam), F Kirbati
Sea (kse), F Kuril (kur), A Lima (lim), A Livonia (lvn), F North
Atlantic (nat), F North East Trades (net), F North Pacific (npa), F
North Sea (nth), F Norway (nwy), F Nova Scotia (nsc), F Okhotsk (okh),
F Pacific Basin (pba), A Pramaiba (pra), A Ruperts Land (rla), F
Sargasso (sar), F Society Islands (sct), F South Pacific (spa), A St
Petersburg (stp), F Sweden (swe), F Virgin Islands (vis), F Westerlies
(wst).

Ownership of supply centers:

Britain: Greenland (grn).
China: Manchuria (mac).
France: The Azores (azo), Bavaria (bav), Berlin (ber), Brasilia (bra),
Budapest (bud), Cameroon (cmn), Cape Verde Islands (vrd), Corsica
(crs), Crete (cre), Croatia (cro), Falkland Islands (fal), Gibraltar
(gib), Grain Coast (gcs), Greece (gre), Holland (hol), Ivory Coast
(ivc), Kiel (kie), La Paz (lpa), Marseilles (mar), Monrovia (mnv),
Morocco (mrc), Nantes (nan), Okrana (okn), Oliveira (oli), Paraguay
(prg), Paris (par), Piedmont (pie), Recife (rec), Rio de Janeiro
(rdj), Rome (rom), Ruhr (ruh), Rumania (rum), Salerno (sal), Serbia
(ser), Sicily (sic), Sierra Leone (sie), Silesia (sil), South Georgia
Islands (sgr), Stuttgart (stu), Tripoli (trp), Tunis (tun), Uruguay
(uru), Valencia (vlc), Venice (ven), Vienna (vie).
Holland: Abyssinia (aby), Aden (ade), Andaman Islands (amn), Angora (ang),
Baghdad (bag), Baku (bku), Bangalore (ban), Bangkok (bnk), Bengal
(ben), Bombay (bom), Borneo (brn), Botswana (bsw), Burma (brm), Cairo
(cai), Cambodia (cmb), Canton (can), Cape Town (ctn), Caroline Islands
(crl), Ceylon (cey), Chungking (chk), Cochin (cch), Constantinople
(con), Cyprus (cyp), Delhi (del), Fiji (fij), Formosa (for), Georgia
(geo), Hong Kong (hko), Irian Java (ija), Irkutsk (irk), Java (jav),
Karachi (krc), Kashmir (kas), Khiva (khv), Luzon (luz), Madagascar
(mad), Madras (mds), Malaysia (mal), Maldives (mld), Marshal Islands
(mhl), Mindanao (mnd), New Guinea (ngu), New South Wales (nsw), New
Zealand (nzl), Okinawa (oki), Oman (oma), Omsk (oms), Orenburg (orn),
Peking (pek), Perth (per), Queensland (qnl), Rangoon (rng), Rhodesia
(rho), Sarawak (srw), Seychelles (sey), Shanghai (sha), Singapore
(sin), Sinkiang (snk), Sofia (sof), Sudan (sud), Sumatra (sum),
Tashkent (tsh), Tehran (teh), Tonkin (tnk), Transvaal (trn), Wuhan
(wuh), Yuthia (yut).
Japan: Edo (edo), Fusan (fsn), Kagoshima (kag), Port Arthur (poa), Sakhurlin
(sak), Sapporo (sap), Seoul (seo), Vladivostok (vla).
Russia: Warsaw (war), Prussia (pru), Sevastopol (sev), Moscow (mos).
USA: Alberta (alb), Anchorage (anc), Atlanta (atl), Austin (aus), The
Bahamas (bah), Barcelone (brc), Bogota (bgt), Cayenne (cyn), Chicago
(chc), Cuba (cub), Denmark (den), Detroit (det), Dublin (dub),
Edinburgh (edi), Galapagos (glp), Haiti (hai), Hawaii (haw), Honduras
(hon), Kansas (kan), Lima (lim), London (lon), Mazatlan (maz), Merida
(mer), Mexico City (mex), Nebraska (neb), New Mexico (nme), New
Orleans (nol), New York (nyc), Norway (nwy), Nova Scotia (nsc),
Oklahoma (okl), Oregon (ore), Panama (pan), Paramaribo (pmb), Quebec
(que), Richmond (ric), San Francisco (sfo), Seattle (sea), Society
Islands (sct), St Petersburg (stp), Sweden (swe), Vancouver (van),
Victoria (vic), Virgin Islands (vis), Washington DC (wdc), Yukon (yuk).

Austria: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
Brazil: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
Britain: 1 Supply center , 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
China: 1 Supply center , 2 Units: Removes 1 unit.
CSA: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
France: 45 Supply centers, 42 Units: Builds 3 units.
Holland: 67 Supply centers, 63 Units: Builds 4 units.
Japan: 8 Supply centers, 9 Units: Removes 1 unit.
Mexico: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
Prussia: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
Russia: 4 Supply centers, 4 Units: Builds 0 units.
Turkey: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
USA: 46 Supply centers, 40 Units: Builds 6 units.


NEXT DEADLINE: WINTER 1879 ADJUSTMENTS DUE SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 1ST (11:59 PM GMT)!!






________________________________
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[Reply]

From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Guns, Germs and Steel 1264 / DC110 - Fall 1879 - Till the Fat Lady Sings...
To: sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com
Cc: "Cat23 1200 List" <Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com>, "dc110" <DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com>, "Rob Ackerley" <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca>, "David E Watson" <dipknight(at)comcast.net>, "Jerry Todd" <sgttodd(at)mainecav.org>, "Jim Atkins" <savwa4(at)comcast.net>, "Lee Taylor" <leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk>, "Mike Hoffman" <mrh(at)panix.com>, "Randolph" <ruffhaus8(at)aol.com>, "Rob Bristol" <rBristol(at)cargojet.com>, "Rob Bristol" <rbristol(at)cogeco.ca>, "Rudi Van Hal" <rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl>, "Rupert Armstrong" <writetorupert(at)gmail.com>, "Steve Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>, "Suzanne Castagne" <sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr>, "Ted Morley" <ee_morley(at)hotmail.com>, "Ted Morley" <Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov>
Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 12:43 AM

In clarification.
The pertinent part of my HRs is Section IX Paragraph (2) - which reads in part:

If, after a period of 4 game years, no Supply Centers have changed ownership, the GM reserves the right, after a warning is given, to declare a draw including all survivors...


The remainder of that paragraph is void in this instance, as I will enforce a DIAS if 4 game years elapse without centers changing hands.


Concerning the variant rules - unless any player has objection we will allow the optional rule of ending the game on Spring 1901. If this occurs, the game result will also be a DIAS.


Trout




On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 3:04 PM, Paolo Sforza <sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com ([email]sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:b44dfd9576]
Hi Trout,

Just so we all know where we are then I formally ask the question.

This game can finish as a solo on 70 SCs - we all know that. No problem. It can also end as an n-way DRAW if such a proposal is unanimously passed. Again, no problem. All clear as crystal. However, as we could be heading towards game end, sooner rather than later, then exactly what criteria need to met and what duration do these criteria need to in place for you to call a DIAS? Is there an objective set of criteria for the DIAS that we play towards? There is an optional rule (is it in force?) that says '...the game will also end on Spring 1901 should no player possess the required number of supply centers'. The variant optional rule doesn't say what the result will be at game end. Just that the game will end. Is this also a DIAS?

Cheers and thanks,

Paolo.

--- On Thu, 10/30/08, Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Subject: Re: Guns, Germs and Steel 1264 / DC110 - Fall 1879 - Till the Fat Lady Sings...
To: sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com ([email]sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Cc: "Cat23 1200 List" <Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com ([email]Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com[/email])>, "dc110" <DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])>, "Rob Ackerley" <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>, "David E Watson" <dipknight(at)comcast.net ([email]dipknight(at)comcast.net[/email])>, "Jerry Todd" <sgttodd(at)mainecav.org ([email]sgttodd(at)mainecav.org[/email])>, "Jim Atkins" <savwa4(at)comcast.net ([email]savwa4(at)comcast.net[/email])>, "Lee Taylor" <leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk ([email]leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk[/email])>, "Mike Hoffman" <mrh(at)panix.com ([email]mrh(at)panix.com[/email])>, "Randolph" <ruffhaus8(at)aol.com ([email]ruffhaus8(at)aol.com[/email])>, "Rob Bristol" <rBristol(at)cargojet.com ([email]rBristol(at)cargojet.com[/email])>, "Rob Bristol" <rbristol(at)cogeco.ca ([email]rbristol(at)cogeco.ca[/email])>, "Rudi Van Hal" <rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl ([email]rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl[/email])>, "Rupert Armstrong" <writetorupert(at)gmail.com ([email]writetorupert(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "Steve Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "Suzanne Castagne" <sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr ([email]sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr[/email])>, "Ted Morley" <ee_morley(at)hotmail.com ([email]ee_morley(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "Ted Morley" <Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov ([email]Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov[/email])>
Date: Thursday, October 30, 2008, 3:52 PM

For the record.
Any players that do not wish to participate in this game are not held hostage to it. If you wish to abandon this game, please just let me know and I will find a replacement to finish the game off.
It will be labelled a game abandon, however, on the DC club stats. There is nothing I can do about that.
If any player has issues with my House Rules or my GMing style, I will be very happy to entertain your personal grievances in private.
Cheers!
Trout

On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Paolo Sforza <sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com ([email]sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:b44dfd9576]
Hi guys,

I think I put in this 6-way for last turn, but just in case it is someone else's 6-way proposal, I'd better vote. YES, to the 6-way (China, France, Holland, Japan, Russia, USA) DRAW.

Everyone knows the stalemate line, so as long as it is maintained I shall be putting in this proposal every turn and voting down any other proposition. My family is very long lived so I should see the end. Assuming the House Rules are followed then this game should be over in 4 (L-O-N-G) game year's time when the GM calls a DIAS. I have to mention this now because I don't want this monster to go on a moment longer than necessary. If ANYONE has problems (I absolutely don't) with Steve sharing in this DIAS - so effectively making this a 7-way DRAW then they'd better call for his elimination NOW as this will be an SC change and so the 4-game year clock won't start ticking until after this elimination. If Rupert eliminates Steve in Spring and Rudi keeps voting down the 6-way then the game should end just after Spring 1883 - I make that 3 months (late January) based on how slowly this monstrosity has lurched forward so far (GAWD SAVE US!)

The House Rules say (God forbid we ever actually follow the House Rules, of course) that the movement turns could be a minimum of 2 days duration. If Trout would reduce to this duration AND/OR remove his prohibition on perpetual orders then we could get this nonsense over and done with in a couple of weeks (still far too long in my book).

Like I said, I think, once before. This is game is about as exciting as watching anti-climb paint dry. This is supposed to be a 'short' game as it only requires 70 SCs for a SOLO. Even that fudge can't make this enjoyable. Who the hell invents this crappy huge games, riddled with stalemate lines? Rhetorical question - I DON'T want to know anything more about Imperial2,

Just thought! If packrat is right and REing is the same as FWDing - I might be lucky enough to be replaced! Cor, there IS light at the end of the tunnel.

Cheers to all,

Paolo.





--- On Thu, 10/30/08, Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])> wrote:

From: Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>
Subject: Re: Guns, Germs and Steel 1264 / DC110 - Fall 1879 - Till the Fat Lady Sings...
To: "Former Trout" <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "Cat23 1200 List" <Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com ([email]Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com[/email])>, "dc110" <DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])>
Cc: "David E Watson" <dipknight(at)comcast.net ([email]dipknight(at)comcast.net[/email])>, "Jerry Todd" <sgttodd(at)mainecav.org ([email]sgttodd(at)mainecav.org[/email])>, "Jim Atkins" <savwa4(at)comcast.net ([email]savwa4(at)comcast.net[/email])>, "Lee Taylor" <leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk ([email]leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk[/email])>, "Mike Hoffman" <mrh(at)panix.com ([email]mrh(at)panix.com[/email])>, "Paolo Sforza" <sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com ([email]sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "Randolph" <ruffhaus8(at)aol.com ([email]ruffhaus8(at)aol.com[/email])>, "Rob Bristol" <rBristol(at)cargojet.com ([email]rBristol(at)cargojet.com[/email])>, "Rob Bristol" <rbristol(at)cogeco.ca ([email]rbristol(at)cogeco.ca[/email])>, "Rudi Van Hal" <rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl ([email]rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl[/email])>, "Rupert Armstrong" <writetorupert(at)gmail.com ([email]writetorupert(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "Steve Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "Suzanne Castagne" <sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr ([email]sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr[/email])>, "Ted Morley" <ee_morley(at)hotmail.com ([email]ee_morley(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "Ted Morley" <Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov ([email]Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov[/email])>
Date: Thursday, October 30, 2008, 12:55 PM

YES vote from Russia.

________________________________
From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Cat23 1200 List <Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com ([email]Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com[/email])>; dc110 <DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])>
Cc: David E Watson <dipknight(at)comcast.net ([email]dipknight(at)comcast.net[/email])>; Jerry Todd <sgttodd(at)mainecav.org ([email]sgttodd(at)mainecav.org[/email])>; Jim Atkins <savwa4(at)comcast.net ([email]savwa4(at)comcast.net[/email])>; Lee Taylor <leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk ([email]leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk[/email])>; Mike Hoffman <mrh(at)panix.com ([email]mrh(at)panix.com[/email])>; Paolo Sforza <sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com ([email]sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Randolph <ruffhaus8(at)aol.com ([email]ruffhaus8(at)aol.com[/email])>; Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; Rob Bristol <rBristol(at)cargojet.com ([email]rBristol(at)cargojet.com[/email])>; Rob Bristol <rbristol(at)cogeco.ca ([email]rbristol(at)cogeco.ca[/email])>; Rudi Van Hal <rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl ([email]rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl[/email])>; Rupert Armstrong <writetorupert(at)gmail.com ([email]writetorupert(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Steve Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Suzanne Castagne <sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr ([email]sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr[/email])>; Ted Morley <ee_morley(at)hotmail.com ([email]ee_morley(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Ted Morley <Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov ([email]Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov[/email])>
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 10:51:42 AM
Subject: Guns, Germs and Steel 1264 / DC110 - Fall 1879 - Till the Fat Lady Sings...

- TEMPERS FLARE AS WORLD REALIZES ... IT AIN'T OVER!!
- MEAT TENDERIZERS AND ATHLETIC CUPS FLY OFF SHELVES WORLD-WIDE

Okie. Lets all sit around the fire and have a short talk.

Some of you wish to end this game. I absolutely understand that. But despite how crazy it sounds to some, there are those of you who do NOT wish it to end. At least, not at this point.

This is a monster. We all knew it was a monster when we signed up to play. And the fact that its gone on for quite some time has not changed the truth in any way that this game remains a monster. What we have left with is a very good group of players that all have strong wills and personalities... And a board that seems locked to some but that still actually has quite a lot of play in it.

Please do not be discouraged that, if you are one of those wanting the game to end, that it is not - in fact - ending. =P

But okay - enough blabber from me. Fall rolls around and find Holland undergoing a massive withdrawal and reorganization in the south. China continues to get gobbled up and the British in exile suddenly find two thirds of their town halls waving American flags.

The Dutch solo proposal is kicked under the table meeting defeat. In the meanwhile, a new 6-way draw (US/France/Russia/Holland/Japan/China) is proposed. Please have your yay or nay votes on that submitted to me by the Winter 1879 deadline of Saturday, November 1st (11:59 PM GMT).

Strap on those cups, gentlemen. The time-clock hasn't quite run out. =P

Cheers!

Trout

Movement results for Fall of 1879. (1879 FALL)

China: A Manchuria (mac) Supports A Mongolia (mon) - Inner Mongolia (img).
China: A Mongolia (mon) - Inner Mongolia (img).

France: F Adriatic Sea (adr) Supports F Greece (gre).
France: F The Azores (azo) Supports F Bay of Biscay (bob).
France: F Bay of Biscay (bob) Supports F Nantes (nan).
France: A Berlin (ber) Supports A Kiel (kie).
France: A Bosnia (bos) Supports F Greece (gre).
France: A Brasilia (bra) Supports F Recife (rec).
France: F Brazil Current (bcu) Supports F South Georgia Islands (sgr).
France: F Cameroon (cmn) Supports F Okrana (okn).
France: F Canary Seaway(cny) Supports F Cape Verde Islands (vrd).
France: F Cape Verde Islands (vrd) Supports F Canary Seaway(cny).
France: F Coast of Argentina (cag) Supports F Brazil Current (bcu).
France: F Drake (dra) Supports F Brazil Current (bcu).
France: F Falkland Islands (fal) Supports F Drake (dra).
France: A Galicia (gal) Supports A Sevastopol (sev).
France: A Goyamas (goy) - Cochabamba (coh).
France: F Grain Coast (gcs) Supports F Middle Atlantic (mat).
France: F Greece (gre) Supports A Bosnia (bos).
France: F Gulf of Guinea (gog) Supports F Okrana (okn).
France: F Gulf of Lyon (lyo) - Gibraltar (gib) (*Fails*).
France: F Holland (hol) Supports A Rouen (rou).
France: F Ionian Sea (ion) - Sicily (sic).
France: A Kiel (kie) Supports A Berlin (ber).
France: A La Paz (lpa) Supports A Brasilia (bra).
France: F Middle Atlantic (mat) Supports F Recife (rec).
France: F Nantes (nan) Supports F Bay of Biscay (bob).
France: F Okrana (okn) Supports F Gulf of Guinea (gog).
France: A Paris (par) Supports F Nantes (nan).
France: A Quito (qto) Supports A La Paz (lpa).
France: F Recife (rec) Supports F Middle Atlantic (mat).
France: A Rio de Janeiro (rdj) Supports F Recife (rec).
France: A Rouen (rou) Supports F Holland (hol).
France: A Ruhr (ruh) Supports A Kiel (kie).
France: A Rumania (rum) Supports A Sevastopol (sev).
France: A Serbia (ser) Supports A Bosnia (bos).
France: A Silesia (sil) Supports A Berlin (ber).
France: F South Georgia Islands (sgr) Supports F Brazil Current (bcu).
France: A Stuttgart (stu) Supports A Kiel (kie).
France: A Tawarek (twr) Supports F Tripoli (trp).
France: F Tripoli (trp) Supports A Tunis (tun) (*Cut*).
France: A Tunis (tun) Supports F Tripoli (trp).
France: F Tyrrhenian Sea (tys) Supports A Tunis (tun).
France: A Wallacia (wlc) Supports A Rumania (rum).

Holland: F Angola (agl) - South Atlantic (sat) (*Bounce*).
Holland: F Angora (ang)(nc) Supports F Black Sea (bla).
Holland: F Antarctic Atlantic Ocean (aat) - Goodhope (goo).
Holland: F Antarctic Indian Ocean(ain) Supports F Antarctic Atlantic Ocean
(aat) (*Ordered to Move*).
Holland: F Antarctic Pacific Ocean(apa) - Barrier Sea (brr).
Holland: A Armenia (arm) - Tabrize (tbr).
Holland: A Assam (asm) - Yunnan (yun).
Holland: A Aswan (asw) - Fezz (fzz) (*Fails*).
Holland: A Baku (bku) - Georgia (geo).
Holland: F Barrier Sea (brr) - New South Wales (nsw).
Holland: F Bismark Sea (bis) - Izu Trench (izu) (*Fails*).
Holland: F Black Sea (bla) Convoys A Sevastopol (sev) - Baku (bku) (*Void*).
Holland: A Bokhara (bkh) - Kasala (ksl).
Holland: A Cairo (cai) Supports F Tubruq (tbq).
Holland: A Canton (can) Supports F Hong Kong (hko) - Fuchan (fuc).
Holland: F Caroline Islands (crl) Supports F Bismark Sea (bis) - Izu Trench
(izu) (*Fails*).
Holland: A Congo (cng) Supports F Angola (agl) (*Ordered to Move*).
Holland: F Constantinople (con) Supports A Sofia (sof).
Holland: F Coral Sea (cor) - Queensland (qnl).
Holland: F Crete (cre) - Ionian Sea (ion).
Holland: F Cyprus (cyp) - Eastern Mediterranean (eas).
Holland: F Damaraland (dml) - South Atlantic (sat) (*Bounce*).
Holland: A Dar Es Sallam (dar) Supports A Aswan (asw) - Fezz (fzz) (*Fails*).
Holland: F East China Sea (ecs) - Shanghai (sha).
Holland: F Eastern Mediterranean (eas) - Aegean Sea (aeg).
Holland: F Equatorial CounterCurrent (eco) - Bismark Sea (bis) (*Fails*).
Holland: A Evenki (eve) - Yakutsk (yak).
Holland: A Fezz (fzz) - Tripoli (trp) (*Fails*).
Holland: F Fiji (fij) - Coral Sea (cor).
Holland: F Formosa (for) Hold.
Holland: F Goodhope (goo) - West Indian (win).
Holland: F Hong Kong (hko) - Fuchan (fuc).
Holland: A Inner Mongolia (img) Supports A Irkutsk (irk) - Vladivostok (vla)
(*Disbanded*).
Holland: A Irkutsk (irk) - Vladivostok (vla) (*Fails*).
Holland: F Izu Trench (izu) - Kagoshima (kag) (*Fails*).
Holland: A Karachi (krc) - Bokhara (bkh).
Holland: A Kashgar (ksg) - Kirghiz (kir).
Holland: A Kirghiz (kir) - Mongolia (mon).
Holland: A Krasnoyarsk (kra) - Evenki (eve).
Holland: A Langchow (lch) Supports A Kirghiz (kir) - Mongolia (mon).
Holland: F Luzon (luz) Supports F Philippine (phi).
Holland: F Luzon Sea (lus) - Mindanao (mnd).
Holland: F Marshal Islands (mhl) Supports F West Pacific (wpa).
Holland: F New Guinea (ngu) - Timor (tim).
Holland: F New Zealand (nzl) - Tasman (tas).
Holland: F Okinawa (oki) Supports F Bismark Sea (bis) - Izu Trench (izu)
(*Fails*).
Holland: A Omsk (oms) Supports A Baku (bku) - Georgia (geo).
Holland: A Orenburg (orn) Supports A Baku (bku) - Georgia (geo).
Holland: F Philippine (phi) Supports F Bismark Sea (bis) - Izu Trench (izu)
(*Fails*).
Holland: F Shanghai (sha) - Peking (pek).
Holland: A Sinkiang (snk) Supports A Yunnan (yun) - Chungking (chk).
Holland: A Sofia (sof) Hold.
Holland: F South Atlantic (sat) - Cape Town (ctn).
Holland: F South China Sea (scs) Hold.
Holland: F South West Pacific (swp) - Equatorial CounterCurrent (eco) (*Fails*).
Holland: F Syria (syr)(wc) Supports F Cyprus (cyp) - Eastern Mediterranean
(eas).
Holland: A Tashkent (tsh) - Krasnoyarsk (kra).
Holland: A Tibet (tib) - Kashgar (ksg).
Holland: A Tonkin (tnk) Supports A Canton (can).
Holland: F Tubruq (tbq) Supports F Crete (cre) - Ionian Sea (ion).
Holland: F West Pacific (wpa) Supports F Kuril (kur) (*Ordered to Move*).
Holland: A Wuhan (wuh) Supports F Shanghai (sha) - Peking (pek).
Holland: A Yunnan (yun) - Chungking (chk).

Japan: F Edo (edo) Supports F Bering Sea (bse) - Kuril (kur).
Japan: F Fusan (fsn) Supports F Yellow Sea (yse).
Japan: F Kagoshima (kag) Supports F Yellow Sea (yse) (*Cut*).
Japan: F Kuril (kur) - Sapporo (sap).
Japan: F Port Arthur (poa) Supports A Manchuria (mac).
Japan: F Sea of Japan (soj) Supports F Yellow Sea (yse).
Japan: F Seoul (seo)(wc) Supports F Yellow Sea (yse).
Japan: A Vladivostok (vla) Hold.
Japan: F Yellow Sea (yse) Hold.

Russia: A Warsaw (war) Supports A Sevastopol (sev).
Russia: A Perm (prm) Supports A Moscow (mos).
Russia: A Sevastopol (sev) Supports A Moscow (mos).
Russia: A Moscow (mos) Supports A Perm (prm).

USA: A Alaska (ala) Hold.
USA: A Amazon (ama) Supports A Pramaiba (pra).
USA: F Baltic Sea (bal) Supports F North Sea (nth) - Denmark (den).
USA: A Barcelone (brc) Supports A Amazon (ama).
USA: F Barents Sea (bar) - Norway (nwy).
USA: F Bering Sea (bse) - Kuril (kur).
USA: A Caledonia (cld) Supports A Pramaiba (pra).
USA: F Cayenne (cyn) Supports F North East Trades (net).
USA: F Chesapeake Approaches (che) Supports F North Atlantic (nat).
USA: F Chilean Basin (cba) Supports F Drake (dra).
USA: F Counter Current (ccu) Supports F Hawaii (haw).
USA: F Denmark (den) - Sweden (swe).
USA: F Eastern Carribean (eca) Supports F Sargasso (sar).
USA: F Eastern Pacific (epa) Supports F Kirbati Sea (kse).
USA: F Eastern Seaboard (ese) Supports F North Atlantic (nat).
USA: F Finland (fin)(nc) Supports A St Petersburg (stp).
USA: F Gulf of Bothnia (bot) Supports F Baltic Sea (bal).
USA: F Hawaii (haw) Supports F Kirbati Sea (kse).
USA: F Helgoland Bight (hel) Supports F Norwegian Sea (nwg) - North Sea (nth).
USA: F Hudson (hud) Hold.
USA: F Kamchatka (kam) Supports F Bering Sea (bse) - Kuril (kur).
USA: F Kirbati Sea (kse) Hold.
USA: A Lima (lim) Supports A Amazon (ama).
USA: A Livonia (lvn) Supports A Moscow (mos).
USA: F North Atlantic (nat) Hold.
USA: F North East Trades (net) Hold.
USA: F North Pacific (npa) Supports F Westerlies (wst).
USA: F North Sea (nth) - Denmark (den).
USA: F Norwegian Sea (nwg) - North Sea (nth).
USA: F Nova Scotia (nsc) Supports F North Atlantic (nat).
USA: F Okhotsk (okh) Supports A Vladivostok (vla).
USA: F Pacific Basin (pba) Supports F Chilean Basin (cba).
USA: A Pramaiba (pra) Supports A Amazon (ama).
USA: A Ruperts Land (rla) Hold.
USA: F Sargasso (sar) Hold.
USA: F Society Islands (sct) Supports F South Pacific (spa).
USA: F South Pacific (spa) Hold.
USA: A St Petersburg (stp) Supports A Perm (prm).
USA: F Virgin Islands (vis) Supports F Sargasso (sar).
USA: F Westerlies (wst) Supports F Bering Sea (bse) - Kuril (kur).

Unit locations:

China: A Inner Mongolia (img), A Manchuria (mac).
France: F Adriatic Sea (adr), F The Azores (azo), F Bay of Biscay (bob), A
Berlin (ber), A Bosnia (bos), A Brasilia (bra), F Brazil Current
(bcu), F Cameroon (cmn), F Canary Seaway(cny), F Cape Verde Islands
(vrd), F Coast of Argentina (cag), A Cochabamba (coh), F Drake (dra),
F Falkland Islands (fal), A Galicia (gal), F Grain Coast (gcs), F
Greece (gre), F Gulf of Guinea (gog), F Gulf of Lyon (lyo), F Holland
(hol), A Kiel (kie), A La Paz (lpa), F Middle Atlantic (mat), F Nantes
(nan), F Okrana (okn), A Paris (par), A Quito (qto), F Recife (rec), A
Rio de Janeiro (rdj), A Rouen (rou), A Ruhr (ruh), A Rumania (rum), A
Serbia (ser), F Sicily (sic), A Silesia (sil), F South Georgia Islands
(sgr), A Stuttgart (stu), A Tawarek (twr), F Tripoli (trp), A Tunis
(tun), F Tyrrhenian Sea (tys), A Wallacia (wlc).
Holland: F Aegean Sea (aeg), F Angola (agl), F Angora (ang)(nc), F Antarctic
Indian Ocean(ain), A Aswan (asw), F Barrier Sea (brr), F Bismark Sea
(bis), F Black Sea (bla), A Bokhara (bkh), A Cairo (cai), A Canton
(can), F Cape Town (ctn), F Caroline Islands (crl), A Chungking (chk),
A Congo (cng), F Constantinople (con), F Coral Sea (cor), F Damaraland
(dml), A Dar Es Sallam (dar), F Eastern Mediterranean (eas), F
Equatorial CounterCurrent (eco), A Evenki (eve), A Fezz (fzz), F
Formosa (for), F Fuchan (fuc), A Georgia (geo), F Goodhope (goo), A
Inner Mongolia (img), F Ionian Sea (ion), A Irkutsk (irk), F Izu
Trench (izu), A Kasala (ksl), A Kashgar (ksg), A Kirghiz (kir), A
Krasnoyarsk (kra), A Langchow (lch), F Luzon (luz), F Marshal Islands
(mhl), F Mindanao (mnd), A Mongolia (mon), F New South Wales (nsw), F
Okinawa (oki), A Omsk (oms), A Orenburg (orn), F Peking (pek), F
Philippine (phi), F Queensland (qnl), F Shanghai (sha), A Sinkiang
(snk), A Sofia (sof), F South China Sea (scs), F South West Pacific
(swp), F Syria (syr)(wc), A Tabrize (tbr), F Tasman (tas), F Timor
(tim), A Tonkin (tnk), F Tubruq (tbq), F West Indian (win), F West
Pacific (wpa), A Wuhan (wuh), A Yakutsk (yak), A Yunnan (yun).
Japan: F Edo (edo), F Fusan (fsn), F Kagoshima (kag), F Port Arthur (poa), F
Sapporo (sap), F Sea of Japan (soj), F Seoul (seo)(wc), A Vladivostok
(vla), F Yellow Sea (yse).
Russia: A Warsaw (war), A Perm (prm), A Sevastopol (sev), A Moscow (mos).
USA: A Alaska (ala), A Amazon (ama), F Baltic Sea (bal), A Barcelone (brc),
A Caledonia (cld), F Cayenne (cyn), F Chesapeake Approaches (che), F
Chilean Basin (cba), F Counter Current (ccu), F Denmark (den), F
Eastern Carribean (eca), F Eastern Pacific (epa), F Eastern Seaboard
(ese), F Finland (fin)(nc), F Gulf of Bothnia (bot), F Hawaii (haw), F
Helgoland Bight (hel), F Hudson (hud), F Kamchatka (kam), F Kirbati
Sea (kse), F Kuril (kur), A Lima (lim), A Livonia (lvn), F North
Atlantic (nat), F North East Trades (net), F North Pacific (npa), F
North Sea (nth), F Norway (nwy), F Nova Scotia (nsc), F Okhotsk (okh),
F Pacific Basin (pba), A Pramaiba (pra), A Ruperts Land (rla), F
Sargasso (sar), F Society Islands (sct), F South Pacific (spa), A St
Petersburg (stp), F Sweden (swe), F Virgin Islands (vis), F Westerlies
(wst).

Ownership of supply centers:

Britain: Greenland (grn).
China: Manchuria (mac).
France: The Azores (azo), Bavaria (bav), Berlin (ber), Brasilia (bra),
Budapest (bud), Cameroon (cmn), Cape Verde Islands (vrd), Corsica
(crs), Crete (cre), Croatia (cro), Falkland Islands (fal), Gibraltar
(gib), Grain Coast (gcs), Greece (gre), Holland (hol), Ivory Coast
(ivc), Kiel (kie), La Paz (lpa), Marseilles (mar), Monrovia (mnv),
Morocco (mrc), Nantes (nan), Okrana (okn), Oliveira (oli), Paraguay
(prg), Paris (par), Piedmont (pie), Recife (rec), Rio de Janeiro
(rdj), Rome (rom), Ruhr (ruh), Rumania (rum), Salerno (sal), Serbia
(ser), Sicily (sic), Sierra Leone (sie), Silesia (sil), South Georgia
Islands (sgr), Stuttgart (stu), Tripoli (trp), Tunis (tun), Uruguay
(uru), Valencia (vlc), Venice (ven), Vienna (vie).
Holland: Abyssinia (aby), Aden (ade), Andaman Islands (amn), Angora (ang),
Baghdad (bag), Baku (bku), Bangalore (ban), Bangkok (bnk), Bengal
(ben), Bombay (bom), Borneo (brn), Botswana (bsw), Burma (brm), Cairo
(cai), Cambodia (cmb), Canton (can), Cape Town (ctn), Caroline Islands
(crl), Ceylon (cey), Chungking (chk), Cochin (cch), Constantinople
(con), Cyprus (cyp), Delhi (del), Fiji (fij), Formosa (for), Georgia
(geo), Hong Kong (hko), Irian Java (ija), Irkutsk (irk), Java (jav),
Karachi (krc), Kashmir (kas), Khiva (khv), Luzon (luz), Madagascar
(mad), Madras (mds), Malaysia (mal), Maldives (mld), Marshal Islands
(mhl), Mindanao (mnd), New Guinea (ngu), New South Wales (nsw), New
Zealand (nzl), Okinawa (oki), Oman (oma), Omsk (oms), Orenburg (orn),
Peking (pek), Perth (per), Queensland (qnl), Rangoon (rng), Rhodesia
(rho), Sarawak (srw), Seychelles (sey), Shanghai (sha), Singapore
(sin), Sinkiang (snk), Sofia (sof), Sudan (sud), Sumatra (sum),
Tashkent (tsh), Tehran (teh), Tonkin (tnk), Transvaal (trn), Wuhan
(wuh), Yuthia (yut).
Japan: Edo (edo), Fusan (fsn), Kagoshima (kag), Port Arthur (poa), Sakhurlin
(sak), Sapporo (sap), Seoul (seo), Vladivostok (vla).
Russia: Warsaw (war), Prussia (pru), Sevastopol (sev), Moscow (mos).
USA: Alberta (alb), Anchorage (anc), Atlanta (atl), Austin (aus), The
Bahamas (bah), Barcelone (brc), Bogota (bgt), Cayenne (cyn), Chicago
(chc), Cuba (cub), Denmark (den), Detroit (det), Dublin (dub),
Edinburgh (edi), Galapagos (glp), Haiti (hai), Hawaii (haw), Honduras
(hon), Kansas (kan), Lima (lim), London (lon), Mazatlan (maz), Merida
(mer), Mexico City (mex), Nebraska (neb), New Mexico (nme), New
Orleans (nol), New York (nyc), Norway (nwy), Nova Scotia (nsc),
Oklahoma (okl), Oregon (ore), Panama (pan), Paramaribo (pmb), Quebec
(que), Richmond (ric), San Francisco (sfo), Seattle (sea), Society
Islands (sct), St Petersburg (stp), Sweden (swe), Vancouver (van),
Victoria (vic), Virgin Islands (vis), Washington DC (wdc), Yukon (yuk).

Austria: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
Brazil: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
Britain: 1 Supply center , 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
China: 1 Supply center , 2 Units: Removes 1 unit.
CSA: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
France: 45 Supply centers, 42 Units: Builds 3 units.
Holland: 67 Supply centers, 63 Units: Builds 4 units.
Japan: 8 Supply centers, 9 Units: Removes 1 unit.
Mexico: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
Prussia: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
Russia: 4 Supply centers, 4 Units: Builds 0 units.
Turkey: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
USA: 46 Supply centers, 40 Units: Builds 6 units.


NEXT DEADLINE: WINTER 1879 ADJUSTMENTS DUE SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 1ST (11:59 PM GMT)!!






________________________________
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[Reply]

From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Guns, Germs and Steel 1264 / DC110 - Fall 1879 - Till the Fat Lady Sings...
To: sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com
Cc: "Cat23 1200 List" <Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com>, "dc110" <DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com>, "Rob Ackerley" <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca>, "David E Watson" <dipknight(at)comcast.net>, "Jerry Todd" <sgttodd(at)mainecav.org>, "Jim Atkins" <savwa4(at)comcast.net>, "Lee Taylor" <leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk>, "Mike Hoffman" <mrh(at)panix.com>, "Randolph" <ruffhaus8(at)aol.com>, "Rob Bristol" <rBristol(at)cargojet.com>, "Rob Bristol" <rbristol(at)cogeco.ca>, "Rudi Van Hal" <rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl>, "Rupert Armstrong" <writetorupert(at)gmail.com>, "Steve Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>, "Suzanne Castagne" <sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr>, "Ted Morley" <ee_morley(at)hotmail.com>, "Ted Morley" <Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov>
Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 12:43 AM

In clarification.
The pertinent part of my HRs is Section IX Paragraph (2) - which reads in part:

If, after a period of 4 game years, no Supply Centers have changed ownership, the GM reserves the right, after a warning is given, to declare a draw including all survivors...


The remainder of that paragraph is void in this instance, as I will enforce a DIAS if 4 game years elapse without centers changing hands.


Concerning the variant rules - unless any player has objection we will allow the optional rule of ending the game on Spring 1901. If this occurs, the game result will also be a DIAS.


Trout




On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 3:04 PM, Paolo Sforza <sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com ([email]sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:6571855a03]
Hi Trout,

Just so we all know where we are then I formally ask the question.

This game can finish as a solo on 70 SCs - we all know that. No problem. It can also end as an n-way DRAW if such a proposal is unanimously passed. Again, no problem. All clear as crystal. However, as we could be heading towards game end, sooner rather than later, then exactly what criteria need to met and what duration do these criteria need to in place for you to call a DIAS? Is there an objective set of criteria for the DIAS that we play towards? There is an optional rule (is it in force?) that says '...the game will also end on Spring 1901 should no player possess the required number of supply centers'. The variant optional rule doesn't say what the result will be at game end. Just that the game will end. Is this also a DIAS?

Cheers and thanks,

Paolo.

--- On Thu, 10/30/08, Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Subject: Re: Guns, Germs and Steel 1264 / DC110 - Fall 1879 - Till the Fat Lady Sings...
To: sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com ([email]sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Cc: "Cat23 1200 List" <Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com ([email]Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com[/email])>, "dc110" <DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])>, "Rob Ackerley" <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>, "David E Watson" <dipknight(at)comcast.net ([email]dipknight(at)comcast.net[/email])>, "Jerry Todd" <sgttodd(at)mainecav.org ([email]sgttodd(at)mainecav.org[/email])>, "Jim Atkins" <savwa4(at)comcast.net ([email]savwa4(at)comcast.net[/email])>, "Lee Taylor" <leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk ([email]leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk[/email])>, "Mike Hoffman" <mrh(at)panix.com ([email]mrh(at)panix.com[/email])>, "Randolph" <ruffhaus8(at)aol.com ([email]ruffhaus8(at)aol.com[/email])>, "Rob Bristol" <rBristol(at)cargojet.com ([email]rBristol(at)cargojet.com[/email])>, "Rob Bristol" <rbristol(at)cogeco.ca ([email]rbristol(at)cogeco.ca[/email])>, "Rudi Van Hal" <rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl ([email]rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl[/email])>, "Rupert Armstrong" <writetorupert(at)gmail.com ([email]writetorupert(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "Steve Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "Suzanne Castagne" <sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr ([email]sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr[/email])>, "Ted Morley" <ee_morley(at)hotmail.com ([email]ee_morley(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "Ted Morley" <Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov ([email]Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov[/email])>
Date: Thursday, October 30, 2008, 3:52 PM

For the record.
Any players that do not wish to participate in this game are not held hostage to it. If you wish to abandon this game, please just let me know and I will find a replacement to finish the game off.
It will be labelled a game abandon, however, on the DC club stats. There is nothing I can do about that.
If any player has issues with my House Rules or my GMing style, I will be very happy to entertain your personal grievances in private.
Cheers!
Trout

On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Paolo Sforza <sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com ([email]sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:6571855a03]
Hi guys,

I think I put in this 6-way for last turn, but just in case it is someone else's 6-way proposal, I'd better vote. YES, to the 6-way (China, France, Holland, Japan, Russia, USA) DRAW.

Everyone knows the stalemate line, so as long as it is maintained I shall be putting in this proposal every turn and voting down any other proposition. My family is very long lived so I should see the end. Assuming the House Rules are followed then this game should be over in 4 (L-O-N-G) game year's time when the GM calls a DIAS. I have to mention this now because I don't want this monster to go on a moment longer than necessary. If ANYONE has problems (I absolutely don't) with Steve sharing in this DIAS - so effectively making this a 7-way DRAW then they'd better call for his elimination NOW as this will be an SC change and so the 4-game year clock won't start ticking until after this elimination. If Rupert eliminates Steve in Spring and Rudi keeps voting down the 6-way then the game should end just after Spring 1883 - I make that 3 months (late January) based on how slowly this monstrosity has lurched forward so far (GAWD SAVE US!)

The House Rules say (God forbid we ever actually follow the House Rules, of course) that the movement turns could be a minimum of 2 days duration. If Trout would reduce to this duration AND/OR remove his prohibition on perpetual orders then we could get this nonsense over and done with in a couple of weeks (still far too long in my book).

Like I said, I think, once before. This is game is about as exciting as watching anti-climb paint dry. This is supposed to be a 'short' game as it only requires 70 SCs for a SOLO. Even that fudge can't make this enjoyable. Who the hell invents this crappy huge games, riddled with stalemate lines? Rhetorical question - I DON'T want to know anything more about Imperial2,

Just thought! If packrat is right and REing is the same as FWDing - I might be lucky enough to be replaced! Cor, there IS light at the end of the tunnel.

Cheers to all,

Paolo.





--- On Thu, 10/30/08, Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])> wrote:

From: Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>
Subject: Re: Guns, Germs and Steel 1264 / DC110 - Fall 1879 - Till the Fat Lady Sings...
To: "Former Trout" <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "Cat23 1200 List" <Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com ([email]Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com[/email])>, "dc110" <DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])>
Cc: "David E Watson" <dipknight(at)comcast.net ([email]dipknight(at)comcast.net[/email])>, "Jerry Todd" <sgttodd(at)mainecav.org ([email]sgttodd(at)mainecav.org[/email])>, "Jim Atkins" <savwa4(at)comcast.net ([email]savwa4(at)comcast.net[/email])>, "Lee Taylor" <leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk ([email]leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk[/email])>, "Mike Hoffman" <mrh(at)panix.com ([email]mrh(at)panix.com[/email])>, "Paolo Sforza" <sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com ([email]sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "Randolph" <ruffhaus8(at)aol.com ([email]ruffhaus8(at)aol.com[/email])>, "Rob Bristol" <rBristol(at)cargojet.com ([email]rBristol(at)cargojet.com[/email])>, "Rob Bristol" <rbristol(at)cogeco.ca ([email]rbristol(at)cogeco.ca[/email])>, "Rudi Van Hal" <rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl ([email]rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl[/email])>, "Rupert Armstrong" <writetorupert(at)gmail.com ([email]writetorupert(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "Steve Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "Suzanne Castagne" <sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr ([email]sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr[/email])>, "Ted Morley" <ee_morley(at)hotmail.com ([email]ee_morley(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "Ted Morley" <Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov ([email]Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov[/email])>
Date: Thursday, October 30, 2008, 12:55 PM

YES vote from Russia.

________________________________
From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Cat23 1200 List <Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com ([email]Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com[/email])>; dc110 <DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])>
Cc: David E Watson <dipknight(at)comcast.net ([email]dipknight(at)comcast.net[/email])>; Jerry Todd <sgttodd(at)mainecav.org ([email]sgttodd(at)mainecav.org[/email])>; Jim Atkins <savwa4(at)comcast.net ([email]savwa4(at)comcast.net[/email])>; Lee Taylor <leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk ([email]leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk[/email])>; Mike Hoffman <mrh(at)panix.com ([email]mrh(at)panix.com[/email])>; Paolo Sforza <sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com ([email]sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Randolph <ruffhaus8(at)aol.com ([email]ruffhaus8(at)aol.com[/email])>; Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; Rob Bristol <rBristol(at)cargojet.com ([email]rBristol(at)cargojet.com[/email])>; Rob Bristol <rbristol(at)cogeco.ca ([email]rbristol(at)cogeco.ca[/email])>; Rudi Van Hal <rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl ([email]rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl[/email])>; Rupert Armstrong <writetorupert(at)gmail.com ([email]writetorupert(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Steve Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Suzanne Castagne <sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr ([email]sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr[/email])>; Ted Morley <ee_morley(at)hotmail.com ([email]ee_morley(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Ted Morley <Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov ([email]Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov[/email])>
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 10:51:42 AM
Subject: Guns, Germs and Steel 1264 / DC110 - Fall 1879 - Till the Fat Lady Sings...

- TEMPERS FLARE AS WORLD REALIZES ... IT AIN'T OVER!!
- MEAT TENDERIZERS AND ATHLETIC CUPS FLY OFF SHELVES WORLD-WIDE

Okie. Lets all sit around the fire and have a short talk.

Some of you wish to end this game. I absolutely understand that. But despite how crazy it sounds to some, there are those of you who do NOT wish it to end. At least, not at this point.

This is a monster. We all knew it was a monster when we signed up to play. And the fact that its gone on for quite some time has not changed the truth in any way that this game remains a monster. What we have left with is a very good group of players that all have strong wills and personalities... And a board that seems locked to some but that still actually has quite a lot of play in it.

Please do not be discouraged that, if you are one of those wanting the game to end, that it is not - in fact - ending. =P

But okay - enough blabber from me. Fall rolls around and find Holland undergoing a massive withdrawal and reorganization in the south. China continues to get gobbled up and the British in exile suddenly find two thirds of their town halls waving American flags.

The Dutch solo proposal is kicked under the table meeting defeat. In the meanwhile, a new 6-way draw (US/France/Russia/Holland/Japan/China) is proposed. Please have your yay or nay votes on that submitted to me by the Winter 1879 deadline of Saturday, November 1st (11:59 PM GMT).

Strap on those cups, gentlemen. The time-clock hasn't quite run out. =P

Cheers!

Trout

Movement results for Fall of 1879. (1879 FALL)

China: A Manchuria (mac) Supports A Mongolia (mon) - Inner Mongolia (img).
China: A Mongolia (mon) - Inner Mongolia (img).

France: F Adriatic Sea (adr) Supports F Greece (gre).
France: F The Azores (azo) Supports F Bay of Biscay (bob).
France: F Bay of Biscay (bob) Supports F Nantes (nan).
France: A Berlin (ber) Supports A Kiel (kie).
France: A Bosnia (bos) Supports F Greece (gre).
France: A Brasilia (bra) Supports F Recife (rec).
France: F Brazil Current (bcu) Supports F South Georgia Islands (sgr).
France: F Cameroon (cmn) Supports F Okrana (okn).
France: F Canary Seaway(cny) Supports F Cape Verde Islands (vrd).
France: F Cape Verde Islands (vrd) Supports F Canary Seaway(cny).
France: F Coast of Argentina (cag) Supports F Brazil Current (bcu).
France: F Drake (dra) Supports F Brazil Current (bcu).
France: F Falkland Islands (fal) Supports F Drake (dra).
France: A Galicia (gal) Supports A Sevastopol (sev).
France: A Goyamas (goy) - Cochabamba (coh).
France: F Grain Coast (gcs) Supports F Middle Atlantic (mat).
France: F Greece (gre) Supports A Bosnia (bos).
France: F Gulf of Guinea (gog) Supports F Okrana (okn).
France: F Gulf of Lyon (lyo) - Gibraltar (gib) (*Fails*).
France: F Holland (hol) Supports A Rouen (rou).
France: F Ionian Sea (ion) - Sicily (sic).
France: A Kiel (kie) Supports A Berlin (ber).
France: A La Paz (lpa) Supports A Brasilia (bra).
France: F Middle Atlantic (mat) Supports F Recife (rec).
France: F Nantes (nan) Supports F Bay of Biscay (bob).
France: F Okrana (okn) Supports F Gulf of Guinea (gog).
France: A Paris (par) Supports F Nantes (nan).
France: A Quito (qto) Supports A La Paz (lpa).
France: F Recife (rec) Supports F Middle Atlantic (mat).
France: A Rio de Janeiro (rdj) Supports F Recife (rec).
France: A Rouen (rou) Supports F Holland (hol).
France: A Ruhr (ruh) Supports A Kiel (kie).
France: A Rumania (rum) Supports A Sevastopol (sev).
France: A Serbia (ser) Supports A Bosnia (bos).
France: A Silesia (sil) Supports A Berlin (ber).
France: F South Georgia Islands (sgr) Supports F Brazil Current (bcu).
France: A Stuttgart (stu) Supports A Kiel (kie).
France: A Tawarek (twr) Supports F Tripoli (trp).
France: F Tripoli (trp) Supports A Tunis (tun) (*Cut*).
France: A Tunis (tun) Supports F Tripoli (trp).
France: F Tyrrhenian Sea (tys) Supports A Tunis (tun).
France: A Wallacia (wlc) Supports A Rumania (rum).

Holland: F Angola (agl) - South Atlantic (sat) (*Bounce*).
Holland: F Angora (ang)(nc) Supports F Black Sea (bla).
Holland: F Antarctic Atlantic Ocean (aat) - Goodhope (goo).
Holland: F Antarctic Indian Ocean(ain) Supports F Antarctic Atlantic Ocean
(aat) (*Ordered to Move*).
Holland: F Antarctic Pacific Ocean(apa) - Barrier Sea (brr).
Holland: A Armenia (arm) - Tabrize (tbr).
Holland: A Assam (asm) - Yunnan (yun).
Holland: A Aswan (asw) - Fezz (fzz) (*Fails*).
Holland: A Baku (bku) - Georgia (geo).
Holland: F Barrier Sea (brr) - New South Wales (nsw).
Holland: F Bismark Sea (bis) - Izu Trench (izu) (*Fails*).
Holland: F Black Sea (bla) Convoys A Sevastopol (sev) - Baku (bku) (*Void*).
Holland: A Bokhara (bkh) - Kasala (ksl).
Holland: A Cairo (cai) Supports F Tubruq (tbq).
Holland: A Canton (can) Supports F Hong Kong (hko) - Fuchan (fuc).
Holland: F Caroline Islands (crl) Supports F Bismark Sea (bis) - Izu Trench
(izu) (*Fails*).
Holland: A Congo (cng) Supports F Angola (agl) (*Ordered to Move*).
Holland: F Constantinople (con) Supports A Sofia (sof).
Holland: F Coral Sea (cor) - Queensland (qnl).
Holland: F Crete (cre) - Ionian Sea (ion).
Holland: F Cyprus (cyp) - Eastern Mediterranean (eas).
Holland: F Damaraland (dml) - South Atlantic (sat) (*Bounce*).
Holland: A Dar Es Sallam (dar) Supports A Aswan (asw) - Fezz (fzz) (*Fails*).
Holland: F East China Sea (ecs) - Shanghai (sha).
Holland: F Eastern Mediterranean (eas) - Aegean Sea (aeg).
Holland: F Equatorial CounterCurrent (eco) - Bismark Sea (bis) (*Fails*).
Holland: A Evenki (eve) - Yakutsk (yak).
Holland: A Fezz (fzz) - Tripoli (trp) (*Fails*).
Holland: F Fiji (fij) - Coral Sea (cor).
Holland: F Formosa (for) Hold.
Holland: F Goodhope (goo) - West Indian (win).
Holland: F Hong Kong (hko) - Fuchan (fuc).
Holland: A Inner Mongolia (img) Supports A Irkutsk (irk) - Vladivostok (vla)
(*Disbanded*).
Holland: A Irkutsk (irk) - Vladivostok (vla) (*Fails*).
Holland: F Izu Trench (izu) - Kagoshima (kag) (*Fails*).
Holland: A Karachi (krc) - Bokhara (bkh).
Holland: A Kashgar (ksg) - Kirghiz (kir).
Holland: A Kirghiz (kir) - Mongolia (mon).
Holland: A Krasnoyarsk (kra) - Evenki (eve).
Holland: A Langchow (lch) Supports A Kirghiz (kir) - Mongolia (mon).
Holland: F Luzon (luz) Supports F Philippine (phi).
Holland: F Luzon Sea (lus) - Mindanao (mnd).
Holland: F Marshal Islands (mhl) Supports F West Pacific (wpa).
Holland: F New Guinea (ngu) - Timor (tim).
Holland: F New Zealand (nzl) - Tasman (tas).
Holland: F Okinawa (oki) Supports F Bismark Sea (bis) - Izu Trench (izu)
(*Fails*).
Holland: A Omsk (oms) Supports A Baku (bku) - Georgia (geo).
Holland: A Orenburg (orn) Supports A Baku (bku) - Georgia (geo).
Holland: F Philippine (phi) Supports F Bismark Sea (bis) - Izu Trench (izu)
(*Fails*).
Holland: F Shanghai (sha) - Peking (pek).
Holland: A Sinkiang (snk) Supports A Yunnan (yun) - Chungking (chk).
Holland: A Sofia (sof) Hold.
Holland: F South Atlantic (sat) - Cape Town (ctn).
Holland: F South China Sea (scs) Hold.
Holland: F South West Pacific (swp) - Equatorial CounterCurrent (eco) (*Fails*).
Holland: F Syria (syr)(wc) Supports F Cyprus (cyp) - Eastern Mediterranean
(eas).
Holland: A Tashkent (tsh) - Krasnoyarsk (kra).
Holland: A Tibet (tib) - Kashgar (ksg).
Holland: A Tonkin (tnk) Supports A Canton (can).
Holland: F Tubruq (tbq) Supports F Crete (cre) - Ionian Sea (ion).
Holland: F West Pacific (wpa) Supports F Kuril (kur) (*Ordered to Move*).
Holland: A Wuhan (wuh) Supports F Shanghai (sha) - Peking (pek).
Holland: A Yunnan (yun) - Chungking (chk).

Japan: F Edo (edo) Supports F Bering Sea (bse) - Kuril (kur).
Japan: F Fusan (fsn) Supports F Yellow Sea (yse).
Japan: F Kagoshima (kag) Supports F Yellow Sea (yse) (*Cut*).
Japan: F Kuril (kur) - Sapporo (sap).
Japan: F Port Arthur (poa) Supports A Manchuria (mac).
Japan: F Sea of Japan (soj) Supports F Yellow Sea (yse).
Japan: F Seoul (seo)(wc) Supports F Yellow Sea (yse).
Japan: A Vladivostok (vla) Hold.
Japan: F Yellow Sea (yse) Hold.

Russia: A Warsaw (war) Supports A Sevastopol (sev).
Russia: A Perm (prm) Supports A Moscow (mos).
Russia: A Sevastopol (sev) Supports A Moscow (mos).
Russia: A Moscow (mos) Supports A Perm (prm).

USA: A Alaska (ala) Hold.
USA: A Amazon (ama) Supports A Pramaiba (pra).
USA: F Baltic Sea (bal) Supports F North Sea (nth) - Denmark (den).
USA: A Barcelone (brc) Supports A Amazon (ama).
USA: F Barents Sea (bar) - Norway (nwy).
USA: F Bering Sea (bse) - Kuril (kur).
USA: A Caledonia (cld) Supports A Pramaiba (pra).
USA: F Cayenne (cyn) Supports F North East Trades (net).
USA: F Chesapeake Approaches (che) Supports F North Atlantic (nat).
USA: F Chilean Basin (cba) Supports F Drake (dra).
USA: F Counter Current (ccu) Supports F Hawaii (haw).
USA: F Denmark (den) - Sweden (swe).
USA: F Eastern Carribean (eca) Supports F Sargasso (sar).
USA: F Eastern Pacific (epa) Supports F Kirbati Sea (kse).
USA: F Eastern Seaboard (ese) Supports F North Atlantic (nat).
USA: F Finland (fin)(nc) Supports A St Petersburg (stp).
USA: F Gulf of Bothnia (bot) Supports F Baltic Sea (bal).
USA: F Hawaii (haw) Supports F Kirbati Sea (kse).
USA: F Helgoland Bight (hel) Supports F Norwegian Sea (nwg) - North Sea (nth).
USA: F Hudson (hud) Hold.
USA: F Kamchatka (kam) Supports F Bering Sea (bse) - Kuril (kur).
USA: F Kirbati Sea (kse) Hold.
USA: A Lima (lim) Supports A Amazon (ama).
USA: A Livonia (lvn) Supports A Moscow (mos).
USA: F North Atlantic (nat) Hold.
USA: F North East Trades (net) Hold.
USA: F North Pacific (npa) Supports F Westerlies (wst).
USA: F North Sea (nth) - Denmark (den).
USA: F Norwegian Sea (nwg) - North Sea (nth).
USA: F Nova Scotia (nsc) Supports F North Atlantic (nat).
USA: F Okhotsk (okh) Supports A Vladivostok (vla).
USA: F Pacific Basin (pba) Supports F Chilean Basin (cba).
USA: A Pramaiba (pra) Supports A Amazon (ama).
USA: A Ruperts Land (rla) Hold.
USA: F Sargasso (sar) Hold.
USA: F Society Islands (sct) Supports F South Pacific (spa).
USA: F South Pacific (spa) Hold.
USA: A St Petersburg (stp) Supports A Perm (prm).
USA: F Virgin Islands (vis) Supports F Sargasso (sar).
USA: F Westerlies (wst) Supports F Bering Sea (bse) - Kuril (kur).

Unit locations:

China: A Inner Mongolia (img), A Manchuria (mac).
France: F Adriatic Sea (adr), F The Azores (azo), F Bay of Biscay (bob), A
Berlin (ber), A Bosnia (bos), A Brasilia (bra), F Brazil Current
(bcu), F Cameroon (cmn), F Canary Seaway(cny), F Cape Verde Islands
(vrd), F Coast of Argentina (cag), A Cochabamba (coh), F Drake (dra),
F Falkland Islands (fal), A Galicia (gal), F Grain Coast (gcs), F
Greece (gre), F Gulf of Guinea (gog), F Gulf of Lyon (lyo), F Holland
(hol), A Kiel (kie), A La Paz (lpa), F Middle Atlantic (mat), F Nantes
(nan), F Okrana (okn), A Paris (par), A Quito (qto), F Recife (rec), A
Rio de Janeiro (rdj), A Rouen (rou), A Ruhr (ruh), A Rumania (rum), A
Serbia (ser), F Sicily (sic), A Silesia (sil), F South Georgia Islands
(sgr), A Stuttgart (stu), A Tawarek (twr), F Tripoli (trp), A Tunis
(tun), F Tyrrhenian Sea (tys), A Wallacia (wlc).
Holland: F Aegean Sea (aeg), F Angola (agl), F Angora (ang)(nc), F Antarctic
Indian Ocean(ain), A Aswan (asw), F Barrier Sea (brr), F Bismark Sea
(bis), F Black Sea (bla), A Bokhara (bkh), A Cairo (cai), A Canton
(can), F Cape Town (ctn), F Caroline Islands (crl), A Chungking (chk),
A Congo (cng), F Constantinople (con), F Coral Sea (cor), F Damaraland
(dml), A Dar Es Sallam (dar), F Eastern Mediterranean (eas), F
Equatorial CounterCurrent (eco), A Evenki (eve), A Fezz (fzz), F
Formosa (for), F Fuchan (fuc), A Georgia (geo), F Goodhope (goo), A
Inner Mongolia (img), F Ionian Sea (ion), A Irkutsk (irk), F Izu
Trench (izu), A Kasala (ksl), A Kashgar (ksg), A Kirghiz (kir), A
Krasnoyarsk (kra), A Langchow (lch), F Luzon (luz), F Marshal Islands
(mhl), F Mindanao (mnd), A Mongolia (mon), F New South Wales (nsw), F
Okinawa (oki), A Omsk (oms), A Orenburg (orn), F Peking (pek), F
Philippine (phi), F Queensland (qnl), F Shanghai (sha), A Sinkiang
(snk), A Sofia (sof), F South China Sea (scs), F South West Pacific
(swp), F Syria (syr)(wc), A Tabrize (tbr), F Tasman (tas), F Timor
(tim), A Tonkin (tnk), F Tubruq (tbq), F West Indian (win), F West
Pacific (wpa), A Wuhan (wuh), A Yakutsk (yak), A Yunnan (yun).
Japan: F Edo (edo), F Fusan (fsn), F Kagoshima (kag), F Port Arthur (poa), F
Sapporo (sap), F Sea of Japan (soj), F Seoul (seo)(wc), A Vladivostok
(vla), F Yellow Sea (yse).
Russia: A Warsaw (war), A Perm (prm), A Sevastopol (sev), A Moscow (mos).
USA: A Alaska (ala), A Amazon (ama), F Baltic Sea (bal), A Barcelone (brc),
A Caledonia (cld), F Cayenne (cyn), F Chesapeake Approaches (che), F
Chilean Basin (cba), F Counter Current (ccu), F Denmark (den), F
Eastern Carribean (eca), F Eastern Pacific (epa), F Eastern Seaboard
(ese), F Finland (fin)(nc), F Gulf of Bothnia (bot), F Hawaii (haw), F
Helgoland Bight (hel), F Hudson (hud), F Kamchatka (kam), F Kirbati
Sea (kse), F Kuril (kur), A Lima (lim), A Livonia (lvn), F North
Atlantic (nat), F North East Trades (net), F North Pacific (npa), F
North Sea (nth), F Norway (nwy), F Nova Scotia (nsc), F Okhotsk (okh),
F Pacific Basin (pba), A Pramaiba (pra), A Ruperts Land (rla), F
Sargasso (sar), F Society Islands (sct), F South Pacific (spa), A St
Petersburg (stp), F Sweden (swe), F Virgin Islands (vis), F Westerlies
(wst).

Ownership of supply centers:

Britain: Greenland (grn).
China: Manchuria (mac).
France: The Azores (azo), Bavaria (bav), Berlin (ber), Brasilia (bra),
Budapest (bud), Cameroon (cmn), Cape Verde Islands (vrd), Corsica
(crs), Crete (cre), Croatia (cro), Falkland Islands (fal), Gibraltar
(gib), Grain Coast (gcs), Greece (gre), Holland (hol), Ivory Coast
(ivc), Kiel (kie), La Paz (lpa), Marseilles (mar), Monrovia (mnv),
Morocco (mrc), Nantes (nan), Okrana (okn), Oliveira (oli), Paraguay
(prg), Paris (par), Piedmont (pie), Recife (rec), Rio de Janeiro
(rdj), Rome (rom), Ruhr (ruh), Rumania (rum), Salerno (sal), Serbia
(ser), Sicily (sic), Sierra Leone (sie), Silesia (sil), South Georgia
Islands (sgr), Stuttgart (stu), Tripoli (trp), Tunis (tun), Uruguay
(uru), Valencia (vlc), Venice (ven), Vienna (vie).
Holland: Abyssinia (aby), Aden (ade), Andaman Islands (amn), Angora (ang),
Baghdad (bag), Baku (bku), Bangalore (ban), Bangkok (bnk), Bengal
(ben), Bombay (bom), Borneo (brn), Botswana (bsw), Burma (brm), Cairo
(cai), Cambodia (cmb), Canton (can), Cape Town (ctn), Caroline Islands
(crl), Ceylon (cey), Chungking (chk), Cochin (cch), Constantinople
(con), Cyprus (cyp), Delhi (del), Fiji (fij), Formosa (for), Georgia
(geo), Hong Kong (hko), Irian Java (ija), Irkutsk (irk), Java (jav),
Karachi (krc), Kashmir (kas), Khiva (khv), Luzon (luz), Madagascar
(mad), Madras (mds), Malaysia (mal), Maldives (mld), Marshal Islands
(mhl), Mindanao (mnd), New Guinea (ngu), New South Wales (nsw), New
Zealand (nzl), Okinawa (oki), Oman (oma), Omsk (oms), Orenburg (orn),
Peking (pek), Perth (per), Queensland (qnl), Rangoon (rng), Rhodesia
(rho), Sarawak (srw), Seychelles (sey), Shanghai (sha), Singapore
(sin), Sinkiang (snk), Sofia (sof), Sudan (sud), Sumatra (sum),
Tashkent (tsh), Tehran (teh), Tonkin (tnk), Transvaal (trn), Wuhan
(wuh), Yuthia (yut).
Japan: Edo (edo), Fusan (fsn), Kagoshima (kag), Port Arthur (poa), Sakhurlin
(sak), Sapporo (sap), Seoul (seo), Vladivostok (vla).
Russia: Warsaw (war), Prussia (pru), Sevastopol (sev), Moscow (mos).
USA: Alberta (alb), Anchorage (anc), Atlanta (atl), Austin (aus), The
Bahamas (bah), Barcelone (brc), Bogota (bgt), Cayenne (cyn), Chicago
(chc), Cuba (cub), Denmark (den), Detroit (det), Dublin (dub),
Edinburgh (edi), Galapagos (glp), Haiti (hai), Hawaii (haw), Honduras
(hon), Kansas (kan), Lima (lim), London (lon), Mazatlan (maz), Merida
(mer), Mexico City (mex), Nebraska (neb), New Mexico (nme), New
Orleans (nol), New York (nyc), Norway (nwy), Nova Scotia (nsc),
Oklahoma (okl), Oregon (ore), Panama (pan), Paramaribo (pmb), Quebec
(que), Richmond (ric), San Francisco (sfo), Seattle (sea), Society
Islands (sct), St Petersburg (stp), Sweden (swe), Vancouver (van),
Victoria (vic), Virgin Islands (vis), Washington DC (wdc), Yukon (yuk).

Austria: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
Brazil: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
Britain: 1 Supply center , 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
China: 1 Supply center , 2 Units: Removes 1 unit.
CSA: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
France: 45 Supply centers, 42 Units: Builds 3 units.
Holland: 67 Supply centers, 63 Units: Builds 4 units.
Japan: 8 Supply centers, 9 Units: Removes 1 unit.
Mexico: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
Prussia: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
Russia: 4 Supply centers, 4 Units: Builds 0 units.
Turkey: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
USA: 46 Supply centers, 40 Units: Builds 6 units.


NEXT DEADLINE: WINTER 1879 ADJUSTMENTS DUE SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 1ST (11:59 PM GMT)!!






________________________________
Now with a new friend-happy design! Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger

[Reply]

From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Guns, Germs and Steel 1264 / DC110 - Fall 1879 - Till the Fat Lady Sings...
To: sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com
Cc: "Cat23 1200 List" <Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com>, "dc110" <DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com>, "Rob Ackerley" <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca>, "David E Watson" <dipknight(at)comcast.net>, "Jerry Todd" <sgttodd(at)mainecav.org>, "Jim Atkins" <savwa4(at)comcast.net>, "Lee Taylor" <leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk>, "Mike Hoffman" <mrh(at)panix.com>, "Randolph" <ruffhaus8(at)aol.com>, "Rob Bristol" <rBristol(at)cargojet.com>, "Rob Bristol" <rbristol(at)cogeco.ca>, "Rudi Van Hal" <rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl>, "Rupert Armstrong" <writetorupert(at)gmail.com>, "Steve Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>, "Suzanne Castagne" <sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr>, "Ted Morley" <ee_morley(at)hotmail.com>, "Ted Morley" <Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov>
Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 12:43 AM

In clarification.
The pertinent part of my HRs is Section IX Paragraph (2) - which reads in part:

If, after a period of 4 game years, no Supply Centers have changed ownership, the GM reserves the right, after a warning is given, to declare a draw including all survivors...


The remainder of that paragraph is void in this instance, as I will enforce a DIAS if 4 game years elapse without centers changing hands.


Concerning the variant rules - unless any player has objection we will allow the optional rule of ending the game on Spring 1901. If this occurs, the game result will also be a DIAS.


Trout




On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 3:04 PM, Paolo Sforza <sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com ([email]sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:19f25f8499]
Hi Trout,

Just so we all know where we are then I formally ask the question.

This game can finish as a solo on 70 SCs - we all know that. No problem. It can also end as an n-way DRAW if such a proposal is unanimously passed. Again, no problem. All clear as crystal. However, as we could be heading towards game end, sooner rather than later, then exactly what criteria need to met and what duration do these criteria need to in place for you to call a DIAS? Is there an objective set of criteria for the DIAS that we play towards? There is an optional rule (is it in force?) that says '...the game will also end on Spring 1901 should no player possess the required number of supply centers'. The variant optional rule doesn't say what the result will be at game end. Just that the game will end. Is this also a DIAS?

Cheers and thanks,

Paolo.

--- On Thu, 10/30/08, Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Subject: Re: Guns, Germs and Steel 1264 / DC110 - Fall 1879 - Till the Fat Lady Sings...
To: sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com ([email]sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Cc: "Cat23 1200 List" <Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com ([email]Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com[/email])>, "dc110" <DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])>, "Rob Ackerley" <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>, "David E Watson" <dipknight(at)comcast.net ([email]dipknight(at)comcast.net[/email])>, "Jerry Todd" <sgttodd(at)mainecav.org ([email]sgttodd(at)mainecav.org[/email])>, "Jim Atkins" <savwa4(at)comcast.net ([email]savwa4(at)comcast.net[/email])>, "Lee Taylor" <leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk ([email]leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk[/email])>, "Mike Hoffman" <mrh(at)panix.com ([email]mrh(at)panix.com[/email])>, "Randolph" <ruffhaus8(at)aol.com ([email]ruffhaus8(at)aol.com[/email])>, "Rob Bristol" <rBristol(at)cargojet.com ([email]rBristol(at)cargojet.com[/email])>, "Rob Bristol" <rbristol(at)cogeco.ca ([email]rbristol(at)cogeco.ca[/email])>, "Rudi Van Hal" <rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl ([email]rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl[/email])>, "Rupert Armstrong" <writetorupert(at)gmail.com ([email]writetorupert(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "Steve Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "Suzanne Castagne" <sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr ([email]sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr[/email])>, "Ted Morley" <ee_morley(at)hotmail.com ([email]ee_morley(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "Ted Morley" <Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov ([email]Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov[/email])>
Date: Thursday, October 30, 2008, 3:52 PM

For the record.
Any players that do not wish to participate in this game are not held hostage to it. If you wish to abandon this game, please just let me know and I will find a replacement to finish the game off.
It will be labelled a game abandon, however, on the DC club stats. There is nothing I can do about that.
If any player has issues with my House Rules or my GMing style, I will be very happy to entertain your personal grievances in private.
Cheers!
Trout

On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Paolo Sforza <sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com ([email]sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:19f25f8499]
Hi guys,

I think I put in this 6-way for last turn, but just in case it is someone else's 6-way proposal, I'd better vote. YES, to the 6-way (China, France, Holland, Japan, Russia, USA) DRAW.

Everyone knows the stalemate line, so as long as it is maintained I shall be putting in this proposal every turn and voting down any other proposition. My family is very long lived so I should see the end. Assuming the House Rules are followed then this game should be over in 4 (L-O-N-G) game year's time when the GM calls a DIAS. I have to mention this now because I don't want this monster to go on a moment longer than necessary. If ANYONE has problems (I absolutely don't) with Steve sharing in this DIAS - so effectively making this a 7-way DRAW then they'd better call for his elimination NOW as this will be an SC change and so the 4-game year clock won't start ticking until after this elimination. If Rupert eliminates Steve in Spring and Rudi keeps voting down the 6-way then the game should end just after Spring 1883 - I make that 3 months (late January) based on how slowly this monstrosity has lurched forward so far (GAWD SAVE US!)

The House Rules say (God forbid we ever actually follow the House Rules, of course) that the movement turns could be a minimum of 2 days duration. If Trout would reduce to this duration AND/OR remove his prohibition on perpetual orders then we could get this nonsense over and done with in a couple of weeks (still far too long in my book).

Like I said, I think, once before. This is game is about as exciting as watching anti-climb paint dry. This is supposed to be a 'short' game as it only requires 70 SCs for a SOLO. Even that fudge can't make this enjoyable. Who the hell invents this crappy huge games, riddled with stalemate lines? Rhetorical question - I DON'T want to know anything more about Imperial2,

Just thought! If packrat is right and REing is the same as FWDing - I might be lucky enough to be replaced! Cor, there IS light at the end of the tunnel.

Cheers to all,

Paolo.





--- On Thu, 10/30/08, Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])> wrote:

From: Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>
Subject: Re: Guns, Germs and Steel 1264 / DC110 - Fall 1879 - Till the Fat Lady Sings...
To: "Former Trout" <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "Cat23 1200 List" <Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com ([email]Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com[/email])>, "dc110" <DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])>
Cc: "David E Watson" <dipknight(at)comcast.net ([email]dipknight(at)comcast.net[/email])>, "Jerry Todd" <sgttodd(at)mainecav.org ([email]sgttodd(at)mainecav.org[/email])>, "Jim Atkins" <savwa4(at)comcast.net ([email]savwa4(at)comcast.net[/email])>, "Lee Taylor" <leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk ([email]leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk[/email])>, "Mike Hoffman" <mrh(at)panix.com ([email]mrh(at)panix.com[/email])>, "Paolo Sforza" <sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com ([email]sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "Randolph" <ruffhaus8(at)aol.com ([email]ruffhaus8(at)aol.com[/email])>, "Rob Bristol" <rBristol(at)cargojet.com ([email]rBristol(at)cargojet.com[/email])>, "Rob Bristol" <rbristol(at)cogeco.ca ([email]rbristol(at)cogeco.ca[/email])>, "Rudi Van Hal" <rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl ([email]rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl[/email])>, "Rupert Armstrong" <writetorupert(at)gmail.com ([email]writetorupert(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "Steve Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "Suzanne Castagne" <sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr ([email]sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr[/email])>, "Ted Morley" <ee_morley(at)hotmail.com ([email]ee_morley(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "Ted Morley" <Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov ([email]Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov[/email])>
Date: Thursday, October 30, 2008, 12:55 PM

YES vote from Russia.

________________________________
From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Cat23 1200 List <Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com ([email]Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com[/email])>; dc110 <DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])>
Cc: David E Watson <dipknight(at)comcast.net ([email]dipknight(at)comcast.net[/email])>; Jerry Todd <sgttodd(at)mainecav.org ([email]sgttodd(at)mainecav.org[/email])>; Jim Atkins <savwa4(at)comcast.net ([email]savwa4(at)comcast.net[/email])>; Lee Taylor <leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk ([email]leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk[/email])>; Mike Hoffman <mrh(at)panix.com ([email]mrh(at)panix.com[/email])>; Paolo Sforza <sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com ([email]sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Randolph <ruffhaus8(at)aol.com ([email]ruffhaus8(at)aol.com[/email])>; Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; Rob Bristol <rBristol(at)cargojet.com ([email]rBristol(at)cargojet.com[/email])>; Rob Bristol <rbristol(at)cogeco.ca ([email]rbristol(at)cogeco.ca[/email])>; Rudi Van Hal <rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl ([email]rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl[/email])>; Rupert Armstrong <writetorupert(at)gmail.com ([email]writetorupert(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Steve Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Suzanne Castagne <sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr ([email]sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr[/email])>; Ted Morley <ee_morley(at)hotmail.com ([email]ee_morley(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Ted Morley <Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov ([email]Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov[/email])>
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 10:51:42 AM
Subject: Guns, Germs and Steel 1264 / DC110 - Fall 1879 - Till the Fat Lady Sings...

- TEMPERS FLARE AS WORLD REALIZES ... IT AIN'T OVER!!
- MEAT TENDERIZERS AND ATHLETIC CUPS FLY OFF SHELVES WORLD-WIDE

Okie. Lets all sit around the fire and have a short talk.

Some of you wish to end this game. I absolutely understand that. But despite how crazy it sounds to some, there are those of you who do NOT wish it to end. At least, not at this point.

This is a monster. We all knew it was a monster when we signed up to play. And the fact that its gone on for quite some time has not changed the truth in any way that this game remains a monster. What we have left with is a very good group of players that all have strong wills and personalities... And a board that seems locked to some but that still actually has quite a lot of play in it.

Please do not be discouraged that, if you are one of those wanting the game to end, that it is not - in fact - ending. =P

But okay - enough blabber from me. Fall rolls around and find Holland undergoing a massive withdrawal and reorganization in the south. China continues to get gobbled up and the British in exile suddenly find two thirds of their town halls waving American flags.

The Dutch solo proposal is kicked under the table meeting defeat. In the meanwhile, a new 6-way draw (US/France/Russia/Holland/Japan/China) is proposed. Please have your yay or nay votes on that submitted to me by the Winter 1879 deadline of Saturday, November 1st (11:59 PM GMT).

Strap on those cups, gentlemen. The time-clock hasn't quite run out. =P

Cheers!

Trout

Movement results for Fall of 1879. (1879 FALL)

China: A Manchuria (mac) Supports A Mongolia (mon) - Inner Mongolia (img).
China: A Mongolia (mon) - Inner Mongolia (img).

France: F Adriatic Sea (adr) Supports F Greece (gre).
France: F The Azores (azo) Supports F Bay of Biscay (bob).
France: F Bay of Biscay (bob) Supports F Nantes (nan).
France: A Berlin (ber) Supports A Kiel (kie).
France: A Bosnia (bos) Supports F Greece (gre).
France: A Brasilia (bra) Supports F Recife (rec).
France: F Brazil Current (bcu) Supports F South Georgia Islands (sgr).
France: F Cameroon (cmn) Supports F Okrana (okn).
France: F Canary Seaway(cny) Supports F Cape Verde Islands (vrd).
France: F Cape Verde Islands (vrd) Supports F Canary Seaway(cny).
France: F Coast of Argentina (cag) Supports F Brazil Current (bcu).
France: F Drake (dra) Supports F Brazil Current (bcu).
France: F Falkland Islands (fal) Supports F Drake (dra).
France: A Galicia (gal) Supports A Sevastopol (sev).
France: A Goyamas (goy) - Cochabamba (coh).
France: F Grain Coast (gcs) Supports F Middle Atlantic (mat).
France: F Greece (gre) Supports A Bosnia (bos).
France: F Gulf of Guinea (gog) Supports F Okrana (okn).
France: F Gulf of Lyon (lyo) - Gibraltar (gib) (*Fails*).
France: F Holland (hol) Supports A Rouen (rou).
France: F Ionian Sea (ion) - Sicily (sic).
France: A Kiel (kie) Supports A Berlin (ber).
France: A La Paz (lpa) Supports A Brasilia (bra).
France: F Middle Atlantic (mat) Supports F Recife (rec).
France: F Nantes (nan) Supports F Bay of Biscay (bob).
France: F Okrana (okn) Supports F Gulf of Guinea (gog).
France: A Paris (par) Supports F Nantes (nan).
France: A Quito (qto) Supports A La Paz (lpa).
France: F Recife (rec) Supports F Middle Atlantic (mat).
France: A Rio de Janeiro (rdj) Supports F Recife (rec).
France: A Rouen (rou) Supports F Holland (hol).
France: A Ruhr (ruh) Supports A Kiel (kie).
France: A Rumania (rum) Supports A Sevastopol (sev).
France: A Serbia (ser) Supports A Bosnia (bos).
France: A Silesia (sil) Supports A Berlin (ber).
France: F South Georgia Islands (sgr) Supports F Brazil Current (bcu).
France: A Stuttgart (stu) Supports A Kiel (kie).
France: A Tawarek (twr) Supports F Tripoli (trp).
France: F Tripoli (trp) Supports A Tunis (tun) (*Cut*).
France: A Tunis (tun) Supports F Tripoli (trp).
France: F Tyrrhenian Sea (tys) Supports A Tunis (tun).
France: A Wallacia (wlc) Supports A Rumania (rum).

Holland: F Angola (agl) - South Atlantic (sat) (*Bounce*).
Holland: F Angora (ang)(nc) Supports F Black Sea (bla).
Holland: F Antarctic Atlantic Ocean (aat) - Goodhope (goo).
Holland: F Antarctic Indian Ocean(ain) Supports F Antarctic Atlantic Ocean
(aat) (*Ordered to Move*).
Holland: F Antarctic Pacific Ocean(apa) - Barrier Sea (brr).
Holland: A Armenia (arm) - Tabrize (tbr).
Holland: A Assam (asm) - Yunnan (yun).
Holland: A Aswan (asw) - Fezz (fzz) (*Fails*).
Holland: A Baku (bku) - Georgia (geo).
Holland: F Barrier Sea (brr) - New South Wales (nsw).
Holland: F Bismark Sea (bis) - Izu Trench (izu) (*Fails*).
Holland: F Black Sea (bla) Convoys A Sevastopol (sev) - Baku (bku) (*Void*).
Holland: A Bokhara (bkh) - Kasala (ksl).
Holland: A Cairo (cai) Supports F Tubruq (tbq).
Holland: A Canton (can) Supports F Hong Kong (hko) - Fuchan (fuc).
Holland: F Caroline Islands (crl) Supports F Bismark Sea (bis) - Izu Trench
(izu) (*Fails*).
Holland: A Congo (cng) Supports F Angola (agl) (*Ordered to Move*).
Holland: F Constantinople (con) Supports A Sofia (sof).
Holland: F Coral Sea (cor) - Queensland (qnl).
Holland: F Crete (cre) - Ionian Sea (ion).
Holland: F Cyprus (cyp) - Eastern Mediterranean (eas).
Holland: F Damaraland (dml) - South Atlantic (sat) (*Bounce*).
Holland: A Dar Es Sallam (dar) Supports A Aswan (asw) - Fezz (fzz) (*Fails*).
Holland: F East China Sea (ecs) - Shanghai (sha).
Holland: F Eastern Mediterranean (eas) - Aegean Sea (aeg).
Holland: F Equatorial CounterCurrent (eco) - Bismark Sea (bis) (*Fails*).
Holland: A Evenki (eve) - Yakutsk (yak).
Holland: A Fezz (fzz) - Tripoli (trp) (*Fails*).
Holland: F Fiji (fij) - Coral Sea (cor).
Holland: F Formosa (for) Hold.
Holland: F Goodhope (goo) - West Indian (win).
Holland: F Hong Kong (hko) - Fuchan (fuc).
Holland: A Inner Mongolia (img) Supports A Irkutsk (irk) - Vladivostok (vla)
(*Disbanded*).
Holland: A Irkutsk (irk) - Vladivostok (vla) (*Fails*).
Holland: F Izu Trench (izu) - Kagoshima (kag) (*Fails*).
Holland: A Karachi (krc) - Bokhara (bkh).
Holland: A Kashgar (ksg) - Kirghiz (kir).
Holland: A Kirghiz (kir) - Mongolia (mon).
Holland: A Krasnoyarsk (kra) - Evenki (eve).
Holland: A Langchow (lch) Supports A Kirghiz (kir) - Mongolia (mon).
Holland: F Luzon (luz) Supports F Philippine (phi).
Holland: F Luzon Sea (lus) - Mindanao (mnd).
Holland: F Marshal Islands (mhl) Supports F West Pacific (wpa).
Holland: F New Guinea (ngu) - Timor (tim).
Holland: F New Zealand (nzl) - Tasman (tas).
Holland: F Okinawa (oki) Supports F Bismark Sea (bis) - Izu Trench (izu)
(*Fails*).
Holland: A Omsk (oms) Supports A Baku (bku) - Georgia (geo).
Holland: A Orenburg (orn) Supports A Baku (bku) - Georgia (geo).
Holland: F Philippine (phi) Supports F Bismark Sea (bis) - Izu Trench (izu)
(*Fails*).
Holland: F Shanghai (sha) - Peking (pek).
Holland: A Sinkiang (snk) Supports A Yunnan (yun) - Chungking (chk).
Holland: A Sofia (sof) Hold.
Holland: F South Atlantic (sat) - Cape Town (ctn).
Holland: F South China Sea (scs) Hold.
Holland: F South West Pacific (swp) - Equatorial CounterCurrent (eco) (*Fails*).
Holland: F Syria (syr)(wc) Supports F Cyprus (cyp) - Eastern Mediterranean
(eas).
Holland: A Tashkent (tsh) - Krasnoyarsk (kra).
Holland: A Tibet (tib) - Kashgar (ksg).
Holland: A Tonkin (tnk) Supports A Canton (can).
Holland: F Tubruq (tbq) Supports F Crete (cre) - Ionian Sea (ion).
Holland: F West Pacific (wpa) Supports F Kuril (kur) (*Ordered to Move*).
Holland: A Wuhan (wuh) Supports F Shanghai (sha) - Peking (pek).
Holland: A Yunnan (yun) - Chungking (chk).

Japan: F Edo (edo) Supports F Bering Sea (bse) - Kuril (kur).
Japan: F Fusan (fsn) Supports F Yellow Sea (yse).
Japan: F Kagoshima (kag) Supports F Yellow Sea (yse) (*Cut*).
Japan: F Kuril (kur) - Sapporo (sap).
Japan: F Port Arthur (poa) Supports A Manchuria (mac).
Japan: F Sea of Japan (soj) Supports F Yellow Sea (yse).
Japan: F Seoul (seo)(wc) Supports F Yellow Sea (yse).
Japan: A Vladivostok (vla) Hold.
Japan: F Yellow Sea (yse) Hold.

Russia: A Warsaw (war) Supports A Sevastopol (sev).
Russia: A Perm (prm) Supports A Moscow (mos).
Russia: A Sevastopol (sev) Supports A Moscow (mos).
Russia: A Moscow (mos) Supports A Perm (prm).

USA: A Alaska (ala) Hold.
USA: A Amazon (ama) Supports A Pramaiba (pra).
USA: F Baltic Sea (bal) Supports F North Sea (nth) - Denmark (den).
USA: A Barcelone (brc) Supports A Amazon (ama).
USA: F Barents Sea (bar) - Norway (nwy).
USA: F Bering Sea (bse) - Kuril (kur).
USA: A Caledonia (cld) Supports A Pramaiba (pra).
USA: F Cayenne (cyn) Supports F North East Trades (net).
USA: F Chesapeake Approaches (che) Supports F North Atlantic (nat).
USA: F Chilean Basin (cba) Supports F Drake (dra).
USA: F Counter Current (ccu) Supports F Hawaii (haw).
USA: F Denmark (den) - Sweden (swe).
USA: F Eastern Carribean (eca) Supports F Sargasso (sar).
USA: F Eastern Pacific (epa) Supports F Kirbati Sea (kse).
USA: F Eastern Seaboard (ese) Supports F North Atlantic (nat).
USA: F Finland (fin)(nc) Supports A St Petersburg (stp).
USA: F Gulf of Bothnia (bot) Supports F Baltic Sea (bal).
USA: F Hawaii (haw) Supports F Kirbati Sea (kse).
USA: F Helgoland Bight (hel) Supports F Norwegian Sea (nwg) - North Sea (nth).
USA: F Hudson (hud) Hold.
USA: F Kamchatka (kam) Supports F Bering Sea (bse) - Kuril (kur).
USA: F Kirbati Sea (kse) Hold.
USA: A Lima (lim) Supports A Amazon (ama).
USA: A Livonia (lvn) Supports A Moscow (mos).
USA: F North Atlantic (nat) Hold.
USA: F North East Trades (net) Hold.
USA: F North Pacific (npa) Supports F Westerlies (wst).
USA: F North Sea (nth) - Denmark (den).
USA: F Norwegian Sea (nwg) - North Sea (nth).
USA: F Nova Scotia (nsc) Supports F North Atlantic (nat).
USA: F Okhotsk (okh) Supports A Vladivostok (vla).
USA: F Pacific Basin (pba) Supports F Chilean Basin (cba).
USA: A Pramaiba (pra) Supports A Amazon (ama).
USA: A Ruperts Land (rla) Hold.
USA: F Sargasso (sar) Hold.
USA: F Society Islands (sct) Supports F South Pacific (spa).
USA: F South Pacific (spa) Hold.
USA: A St Petersburg (stp) Supports A Perm (prm).
USA: F Virgin Islands (vis) Supports F Sargasso (sar).
USA: F Westerlies (wst) Supports F Bering Sea (bse) - Kuril (kur).

Unit locations:

China: A Inner Mongolia (img), A Manchuria (mac).
France: F Adriatic Sea (adr), F The Azores (azo), F Bay of Biscay (bob), A
Berlin (ber), A Bosnia (bos), A Brasilia (bra), F Brazil Current
(bcu), F Cameroon (cmn), F Canary Seaway(cny), F Cape Verde Islands
(vrd), F Coast of Argentina (cag), A Cochabamba (coh), F Drake (dra),
F Falkland Islands (fal), A Galicia (gal), F Grain Coast (gcs), F
Greece (gre), F Gulf of Guinea (gog), F Gulf of Lyon (lyo), F Holland
(hol), A Kiel (kie), A La Paz (lpa), F Middle Atlantic (mat), F Nantes
(nan), F Okrana (okn), A Paris (par), A Quito (qto), F Recife (rec), A
Rio de Janeiro (rdj), A Rouen (rou), A Ruhr (ruh), A Rumania (rum), A
Serbia (ser), F Sicily (sic), A Silesia (sil), F South Georgia Islands
(sgr), A Stuttgart (stu), A Tawarek (twr), F Tripoli (trp), A Tunis
(tun), F Tyrrhenian Sea (tys), A Wallacia (wlc).
Holland: F Aegean Sea (aeg), F Angola (agl), F Angora (ang)(nc), F Antarctic
Indian Ocean(ain), A Aswan (asw), F Barrier Sea (brr), F Bismark Sea
(bis), F Black Sea (bla), A Bokhara (bkh), A Cairo (cai), A Canton
(can), F Cape Town (ctn), F Caroline Islands (crl), A Chungking (chk),
A Congo (cng), F Constantinople (con), F Coral Sea (cor), F Damaraland
(dml), A Dar Es Sallam (dar), F Eastern Mediterranean (eas), F
Equatorial CounterCurrent (eco), A Evenki (eve), A Fezz (fzz), F
Formosa (for), F Fuchan (fuc), A Georgia (geo), F Goodhope (goo), A
Inner Mongolia (img), F Ionian Sea (ion), A Irkutsk (irk), F Izu
Trench (izu), A Kasala (ksl), A Kashgar (ksg), A Kirghiz (kir), A
Krasnoyarsk (kra), A Langchow (lch), F Luzon (luz), F Marshal Islands
(mhl), F Mindanao (mnd), A Mongolia (mon), F New South Wales (nsw), F
Okinawa (oki), A Omsk (oms), A Orenburg (orn), F Peking (pek), F
Philippine (phi), F Queensland (qnl), F Shanghai (sha), A Sinkiang
(snk), A Sofia (sof), F South China Sea (scs), F South West Pacific
(swp), F Syria (syr)(wc), A Tabrize (tbr), F Tasman (tas), F Timor
(tim), A Tonkin (tnk), F Tubruq (tbq), F West Indian (win), F West
Pacific (wpa), A Wuhan (wuh), A Yakutsk (yak), A Yunnan (yun).
Japan: F Edo (edo), F Fusan (fsn), F Kagoshima (kag), F Port Arthur (poa), F
Sapporo (sap), F Sea of Japan (soj), F Seoul (seo)(wc), A Vladivostok
(vla), F Yellow Sea (yse).
Russia: A Warsaw (war), A Perm (prm), A Sevastopol (sev), A Moscow (mos).
USA: A Alaska (ala), A Amazon (ama), F Baltic Sea (bal), A Barcelone (brc),
A Caledonia (cld), F Cayenne (cyn), F Chesapeake Approaches (che), F
Chilean Basin (cba), F Counter Current (ccu), F Denmark (den), F
Eastern Carribean (eca), F Eastern Pacific (epa), F Eastern Seaboard
(ese), F Finland (fin)(nc), F Gulf of Bothnia (bot), F Hawaii (haw), F
Helgoland Bight (hel), F Hudson (hud), F Kamchatka (kam), F Kirbati
Sea (kse), F Kuril (kur), A Lima (lim), A Livonia (lvn), F North
Atlantic (nat), F North East Trades (net), F North Pacific (npa), F
North Sea (nth), F Norway (nwy), F Nova Scotia (nsc), F Okhotsk (okh),
F Pacific Basin (pba), A Pramaiba (pra), A Ruperts Land (rla), F
Sargasso (sar), F Society Islands (sct), F South Pacific (spa), A St
Petersburg (stp), F Sweden (swe), F Virgin Islands (vis), F Westerlies
(wst).

Ownership of supply centers:

Britain: Greenland (grn).
China: Manchuria (mac).
France: The Azores (azo), Bavaria (bav), Berlin (ber), Brasilia (bra),
Budapest (bud), Cameroon (cmn), Cape Verde Islands (vrd), Corsica
(crs), Crete (cre), Croatia (cro), Falkland Islands (fal), Gibraltar
(gib), Grain Coast (gcs), Greece (gre), Holland (hol), Ivory Coast
(ivc), Kiel (kie), La Paz (lpa), Marseilles (mar), Monrovia (mnv),
Morocco (mrc), Nantes (nan), Okrana (okn), Oliveira (oli), Paraguay
(prg), Paris (par), Piedmont (pie), Recife (rec), Rio de Janeiro
(rdj), Rome (rom), Ruhr (ruh), Rumania (rum), Salerno (sal), Serbia
(ser), Sicily (sic), Sierra Leone (sie), Silesia (sil), South Georgia
Islands (sgr), Stuttgart (stu), Tripoli (trp), Tunis (tun), Uruguay
(uru), Valencia (vlc), Venice (ven), Vienna (vie).
Holland: Abyssinia (aby), Aden (ade), Andaman Islands (amn), Angora (ang),
Baghdad (bag), Baku (bku), Bangalore (ban), Bangkok (bnk), Bengal
(ben), Bombay (bom), Borneo (brn), Botswana (bsw), Burma (brm), Cairo
(cai), Cambodia (cmb), Canton (can), Cape Town (ctn), Caroline Islands
(crl), Ceylon (cey), Chungking (chk), Cochin (cch), Constantinople
(con), Cyprus (cyp), Delhi (del), Fiji (fij), Formosa (for), Georgia
(geo), Hong Kong (hko), Irian Java (ija), Irkutsk (irk), Java (jav),
Karachi (krc), Kashmir (kas), Khiva (khv), Luzon (luz), Madagascar
(mad), Madras (mds), Malaysia (mal), Maldives (mld), Marshal Islands
(mhl), Mindanao (mnd), New Guinea (ngu), New South Wales (nsw), New
Zealand (nzl), Okinawa (oki), Oman (oma), Omsk (oms), Orenburg (orn),
Peking (pek), Perth (per), Queensland (qnl), Rangoon (rng), Rhodesia
(rho), Sarawak (srw), Seychelles (sey), Shanghai (sha), Singapore
(sin), Sinkiang (snk), Sofia (sof), Sudan (sud), Sumatra (sum),
Tashkent (tsh), Tehran (teh), Tonkin (tnk), Transvaal (trn), Wuhan
(wuh), Yuthia (yut).
Japan: Edo (edo), Fusan (fsn), Kagoshima (kag), Port Arthur (poa), Sakhurlin
(sak), Sapporo (sap), Seoul (seo), Vladivostok (vla).
Russia: Warsaw (war), Prussia (pru), Sevastopol (sev), Moscow (mos).
USA: Alberta (alb), Anchorage (anc), Atlanta (atl), Austin (aus), The
Bahamas (bah), Barcelone (brc), Bogota (bgt), Cayenne (cyn), Chicago
(chc), Cuba (cub), Denmark (den), Detroit (det), Dublin (dub),
Edinburgh (edi), Galapagos (glp), Haiti (hai), Hawaii (haw), Honduras
(hon), Kansas (kan), Lima (lim), London (lon), Mazatlan (maz), Merida
(mer), Mexico City (mex), Nebraska (neb), New Mexico (nme), New
Orleans (nol), New York (nyc), Norway (nwy), Nova Scotia (nsc),
Oklahoma (okl), Oregon (ore), Panama (pan), Paramaribo (pmb), Quebec
(que), Richmond (ric), San Francisco (sfo), Seattle (sea), Society
Islands (sct), St Petersburg (stp), Sweden (swe), Vancouver (van),
Victoria (vic), Virgin Islands (vis), Washington DC (wdc), Yukon (yuk).

Austria: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
Brazil: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
Britain: 1 Supply center , 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
China: 1 Supply center , 2 Units: Removes 1 unit.
CSA: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
France: 45 Supply centers, 42 Units: Builds 3 units.
Holland: 67 Supply centers, 63 Units: Builds 4 units.
Japan: 8 Supply centers, 9 Units: Removes 1 unit.
Mexico: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
Prussia: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
Russia: 4 Supply centers, 4 Units: Builds 0 units.
Turkey: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
USA: 46 Supply centers, 40 Units: Builds 6 units.


NEXT DEADLINE: WINTER 1879 ADJUSTMENTS DUE SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 1ST (11:59 PM GMT)!!






________________________________
Now with a new friend-happy design! Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger

[Reply]

From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Guns, Germs and Steel 1264 / DC110 - Fall 1879 - Till the Fat Lady Sings...
To: sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com
Cc: "Cat23 1200 List" <Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com>, "dc110" <DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com>, "Rob Ackerley" <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca>, "David E Watson" <dipknight(at)comcast.net>, "Jerry Todd" <sgttodd(at)mainecav.org>, "Jim Atkins" <savwa4(at)comcast.net>, "Lee Taylor" <leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk>, "Mike Hoffman" <mrh(at)panix.com>, "Randolph" <ruffhaus8(at)aol.com>, "Rob Bristol" <rBristol(at)cargojet.com>, "Rob Bristol" <rbristol(at)cogeco.ca>, "Rudi Van Hal" <rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl>, "Rupert Armstrong" <writetorupert(at)gmail.com>, "Steve Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>, "Suzanne Castagne" <sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr>, "Ted Morley" <ee_morley(at)hotmail.com>, "Ted Morley" <Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov>
Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 12:43 AM

In clarification.
The pertinent part of my HRs is Section IX Paragraph (2) - which reads in part:

If, after a period of 4 game years, no Supply Centers have changed ownership, the GM reserves the right, after a warning is given, to declare a draw including all survivors...


The remainder of that paragraph is void in this instance, as I will enforce a DIAS if 4 game years elapse without centers changing hands.


Concerning the variant rules - unless any player has objection we will allow the optional rule of ending the game on Spring 1901. If this occurs, the game result will also be a DIAS.


Trout




On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 3:04 PM, Paolo Sforza <sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com ([email]sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:346ce24f7f]
Hi Trout,

Just so we all know where we are then I formally ask the question.

This game can finish as a solo on 70 SCs - we all know that. No problem. It can also end as an n-way DRAW if such a proposal is unanimously passed. Again, no problem. All clear as crystal. However, as we could be heading towards game end, sooner rather than later, then exactly what criteria need to met and what duration do these criteria need to in place for you to call a DIAS? Is there an objective set of criteria for the DIAS that we play towards? There is an optional rule (is it in force?) that says '...the game will also end on Spring 1901 should no player possess the required number of supply centers'. The variant optional rule doesn't say what the result will be at game end. Just that the game will end. Is this also a DIAS?

Cheers and thanks,

Paolo.

--- On Thu, 10/30/08, Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Subject: Re: Guns, Germs and Steel 1264 / DC110 - Fall 1879 - Till the Fat Lady Sings...
To: sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com ([email]sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Cc: "Cat23 1200 List" <Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com ([email]Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com[/email])>, "dc110" <DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])>, "Rob Ackerley" <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>, "David E Watson" <dipknight(at)comcast.net ([email]dipknight(at)comcast.net[/email])>, "Jerry Todd" <sgttodd(at)mainecav.org ([email]sgttodd(at)mainecav.org[/email])>, "Jim Atkins" <savwa4(at)comcast.net ([email]savwa4(at)comcast.net[/email])>, "Lee Taylor" <leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk ([email]leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk[/email])>, "Mike Hoffman" <mrh(at)panix.com ([email]mrh(at)panix.com[/email])>, "Randolph" <ruffhaus8(at)aol.com ([email]ruffhaus8(at)aol.com[/email])>, "Rob Bristol" <rBristol(at)cargojet.com ([email]rBristol(at)cargojet.com[/email])>, "Rob Bristol" <rbristol(at)cogeco.ca ([email]rbristol(at)cogeco.ca[/email])>, "Rudi Van Hal" <rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl ([email]rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl[/email])>, "Rupert Armstrong" <writetorupert(at)gmail.com ([email]writetorupert(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "Steve Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "Suzanne Castagne" <sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr ([email]sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr[/email])>, "Ted Morley" <ee_morley(at)hotmail.com ([email]ee_morley(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "Ted Morley" <Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov ([email]Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov[/email])>
Date: Thursday, October 30, 2008, 3:52 PM

For the record.
Any players that do not wish to participate in this game are not held hostage to it. If you wish to abandon this game, please just let me know and I will find a replacement to finish the game off.
It will be labelled a game abandon, however, on the DC club stats. There is nothing I can do about that.
If any player has issues with my House Rules or my GMing style, I will be very happy to entertain your personal grievances in private.
Cheers!
Trout

On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Paolo Sforza <sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com ([email]sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:346ce24f7f]
Hi guys,

I think I put in this 6-way for last turn, but just in case it is someone else's 6-way proposal, I'd better vote. YES, to the 6-way (China, France, Holland, Japan, Russia, USA) DRAW.

Everyone knows the stalemate line, so as long as it is maintained I shall be putting in this proposal every turn and voting down any other proposition. My family is very long lived so I should see the end. Assuming the House Rules are followed then this game should be over in 4 (L-O-N-G) game year's time when the GM calls a DIAS. I have to mention this now because I don't want this monster to go on a moment longer than necessary. If ANYONE has problems (I absolutely don't) with Steve sharing in this DIAS - so effectively making this a 7-way DRAW then they'd better call for his elimination NOW as this will be an SC change and so the 4-game year clock won't start ticking until after this elimination. If Rupert eliminates Steve in Spring and Rudi keeps voting down the 6-way then the game should end just after Spring 1883 - I make that 3 months (late January) based on how slowly this monstrosity has lurched forward so far (GAWD SAVE US!)

The House Rules say (God forbid we ever actually follow the House Rules, of course) that the movement turns could be a minimum of 2 days duration. If Trout would reduce to this duration AND/OR remove his prohibition on perpetual orders then we could get this nonsense over and done with in a couple of weeks (still far too long in my book).

Like I said, I think, once before. This is game is about as exciting as watching anti-climb paint dry. This is supposed to be a 'short' game as it only requires 70 SCs for a SOLO. Even that fudge can't make this enjoyable. Who the hell invents this crappy huge games, riddled with stalemate lines? Rhetorical question - I DON'T want to know anything more about Imperial2,

Just thought! If packrat is right and REing is the same as FWDing - I might be lucky enough to be replaced! Cor, there IS light at the end of the tunnel.

Cheers to all,

Paolo.





--- On Thu, 10/30/08, Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])> wrote:

From: Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>
Subject: Re: Guns, Germs and Steel 1264 / DC110 - Fall 1879 - Till the Fat Lady Sings...
To: "Former Trout" <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "Cat23 1200 List" <Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com ([email]Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com[/email])>, "dc110" <DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])>
Cc: "David E Watson" <dipknight(at)comcast.net ([email]dipknight(at)comcast.net[/email])>, "Jerry Todd" <sgttodd(at)mainecav.org ([email]sgttodd(at)mainecav.org[/email])>, "Jim Atkins" <savwa4(at)comcast.net ([email]savwa4(at)comcast.net[/email])>, "Lee Taylor" <leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk ([email]leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk[/email])>, "Mike Hoffman" <mrh(at)panix.com ([email]mrh(at)panix.com[/email])>, "Paolo Sforza" <sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com ([email]sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "Randolph" <ruffhaus8(at)aol.com ([email]ruffhaus8(at)aol.com[/email])>, "Rob Bristol" <rBristol(at)cargojet.com ([email]rBristol(at)cargojet.com[/email])>, "Rob Bristol" <rbristol(at)cogeco.ca ([email]rbristol(at)cogeco.ca[/email])>, "Rudi Van Hal" <rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl ([email]rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl[/email])>, "Rupert Armstrong" <writetorupert(at)gmail.com ([email]writetorupert(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "Steve Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "Suzanne Castagne" <sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr ([email]sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr[/email])>, "Ted Morley" <ee_morley(at)hotmail.com ([email]ee_morley(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "Ted Morley" <Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov ([email]Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov[/email])>
Date: Thursday, October 30, 2008, 12:55 PM

YES vote from Russia.

________________________________
From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Cat23 1200 List <Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com ([email]Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com[/email])>; dc110 <DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])>
Cc: David E Watson <dipknight(at)comcast.net ([email]dipknight(at)comcast.net[/email])>; Jerry Todd <sgttodd(at)mainecav.org ([email]sgttodd(at)mainecav.org[/email])>; Jim Atkins <savwa4(at)comcast.net ([email]savwa4(at)comcast.net[/email])>; Lee Taylor <leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk ([email]leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk[/email])>; Mike Hoffman <mrh(at)panix.com ([email]mrh(at)panix.com[/email])>; Paolo Sforza <sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com ([email]sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Randolph <ruffhaus8(at)aol.com ([email]ruffhaus8(at)aol.com[/email])>; Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; Rob Bristol <rBristol(at)cargojet.com ([email]rBristol(at)cargojet.com[/email])>; Rob Bristol <rbristol(at)cogeco.ca ([email]rbristol(at)cogeco.ca[/email])>; Rudi Van Hal <rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl ([email]rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl[/email])>; Rupert Armstrong <writetorupert(at)gmail.com ([email]writetorupert(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Steve Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Suzanne Castagne <sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr ([email]sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr[/email])>; Ted Morley <ee_morley(at)hotmail.com ([email]ee_morley(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Ted Morley <Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov ([email]Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov[/email])>
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 10:51:42 AM
Subject: Guns, Germs and Steel 1264 / DC110 - Fall 1879 - Till the Fat Lady Sings...

- TEMPERS FLARE AS WORLD REALIZES ... IT AIN'T OVER!!
- MEAT TENDERIZERS AND ATHLETIC CUPS FLY OFF SHELVES WORLD-WIDE

Okie. Lets all sit around the fire and have a short talk.

Some of you wish to end this game. I absolutely understand that. But despite how crazy it sounds to some, there are those of you who do NOT wish it to end. At least, not at this point.

This is a monster. We all knew it was a monster when we signed up to play. And the fact that its gone on for quite some time has not changed the truth in any way that this game remains a monster. What we have left with is a very good group of players that all have strong wills and personalities... And a board that seems locked to some but that still actually has quite a lot of play in it.

Please do not be discouraged that, if you are one of those wanting the game to end, that it is not - in fact - ending. =P

But okay - enough blabber from me. Fall rolls around and find Holland undergoing a massive withdrawal and reorganization in the south. China continues to get gobbled up and the British in exile suddenly find two thirds of their town halls waving American flags.

The Dutch solo proposal is kicked under the table meeting defeat. In the meanwhile, a new 6-way draw (US/France/Russia/Holland/Japan/China) is proposed. Please have your yay or nay votes on that submitted to me by the Winter 1879 deadline of Saturday, November 1st (11:59 PM GMT).

Strap on those cups, gentlemen. The time-clock hasn't quite run out. =P

Cheers!

Trout

Movement results for Fall of 1879. (1879 FALL)

China: A Manchuria (mac) Supports A Mongolia (mon) - Inner Mongolia (img).
China: A Mongolia (mon) - Inner Mongolia (img).

France: F Adriatic Sea (adr) Supports F Greece (gre).
France: F The Azores (azo) Supports F Bay of Biscay (bob).
France: F Bay of Biscay (bob) Supports F Nantes (nan).
France: A Berlin (ber) Supports A Kiel (kie).
France: A Bosnia (bos) Supports F Greece (gre).
France: A Brasilia (bra) Supports F Recife (rec).
France: F Brazil Current (bcu) Supports F South Georgia Islands (sgr).
France: F Cameroon (cmn) Supports F Okrana (okn).
France: F Canary Seaway(cny) Supports F Cape Verde Islands (vrd).
France: F Cape Verde Islands (vrd) Supports F Canary Seaway(cny).
France: F Coast of Argentina (cag) Supports F Brazil Current (bcu).
France: F Drake (dra) Supports F Brazil Current (bcu).
France: F Falkland Islands (fal) Supports F Drake (dra).
France: A Galicia (gal) Supports A Sevastopol (sev).
France: A Goyamas (goy) - Cochabamba (coh).
France: F Grain Coast (gcs) Supports F Middle Atlantic (mat).
France: F Greece (gre) Supports A Bosnia (bos).
France: F Gulf of Guinea (gog) Supports F Okrana (okn).
France: F Gulf of Lyon (lyo) - Gibraltar (gib) (*Fails*).
France: F Holland (hol) Supports A Rouen (rou).
France: F Ionian Sea (ion) - Sicily (sic).
France: A Kiel (kie) Supports A Berlin (ber).
France: A La Paz (lpa) Supports A Brasilia (bra).
France: F Middle Atlantic (mat) Supports F Recife (rec).
France: F Nantes (nan) Supports F Bay of Biscay (bob).
France: F Okrana (okn) Supports F Gulf of Guinea (gog).
France: A Paris (par) Supports F Nantes (nan).
France: A Quito (qto) Supports A La Paz (lpa).
France: F Recife (rec) Supports F Middle Atlantic (mat).
France: A Rio de Janeiro (rdj) Supports F Recife (rec).
France: A Rouen (rou) Supports F Holland (hol).
France: A Ruhr (ruh) Supports A Kiel (kie).
France: A Rumania (rum) Supports A Sevastopol (sev).
France: A Serbia (ser) Supports A Bosnia (bos).
France: A Silesia (sil) Supports A Berlin (ber).
France: F South Georgia Islands (sgr) Supports F Brazil Current (bcu).
France: A Stuttgart (stu) Supports A Kiel (kie).
France: A Tawarek (twr) Supports F Tripoli (trp).
France: F Tripoli (trp) Supports A Tunis (tun) (*Cut*).
France: A Tunis (tun) Supports F Tripoli (trp).
France: F Tyrrhenian Sea (tys) Supports A Tunis (tun).
France: A Wallacia (wlc) Supports A Rumania (rum).

Holland: F Angola (agl) - South Atlantic (sat) (*Bounce*).
Holland: F Angora (ang)(nc) Supports F Black Sea (bla).
Holland: F Antarctic Atlantic Ocean (aat) - Goodhope (goo).
Holland: F Antarctic Indian Ocean(ain) Supports F Antarctic Atlantic Ocean
(aat) (*Ordered to Move*).
Holland: F Antarctic Pacific Ocean(apa) - Barrier Sea (brr).
Holland: A Armenia (arm) - Tabrize (tbr).
Holland: A Assam (asm) - Yunnan (yun).
Holland: A Aswan (asw) - Fezz (fzz) (*Fails*).
Holland: A Baku (bku) - Georgia (geo).
Holland: F Barrier Sea (brr) - New South Wales (nsw).
Holland: F Bismark Sea (bis) - Izu Trench (izu) (*Fails*).
Holland: F Black Sea (bla) Convoys A Sevastopol (sev) - Baku (bku) (*Void*).
Holland: A Bokhara (bkh) - Kasala (ksl).
Holland: A Cairo (cai) Supports F Tubruq (tbq).
Holland: A Canton (can) Supports F Hong Kong (hko) - Fuchan (fuc).
Holland: F Caroline Islands (crl) Supports F Bismark Sea (bis) - Izu Trench
(izu) (*Fails*).
Holland: A Congo (cng) Supports F Angola (agl) (*Ordered to Move*).
Holland: F Constantinople (con) Supports A Sofia (sof).
Holland: F Coral Sea (cor) - Queensland (qnl).
Holland: F Crete (cre) - Ionian Sea (ion).
Holland: F Cyprus (cyp) - Eastern Mediterranean (eas).
Holland: F Damaraland (dml) - South Atlantic (sat) (*Bounce*).
Holland: A Dar Es Sallam (dar) Supports A Aswan (asw) - Fezz (fzz) (*Fails*).
Holland: F East China Sea (ecs) - Shanghai (sha).
Holland: F Eastern Mediterranean (eas) - Aegean Sea (aeg).
Holland: F Equatorial CounterCurrent (eco) - Bismark Sea (bis) (*Fails*).
Holland: A Evenki (eve) - Yakutsk (yak).
Holland: A Fezz (fzz) - Tripoli (trp) (*Fails*).
Holland: F Fiji (fij) - Coral Sea (cor).
Holland: F Formosa (for) Hold.
Holland: F Goodhope (goo) - West Indian (win).
Holland: F Hong Kong (hko) - Fuchan (fuc).
Holland: A Inner Mongolia (img) Supports A Irkutsk (irk) - Vladivostok (vla)
(*Disbanded*).
Holland: A Irkutsk (irk) - Vladivostok (vla) (*Fails*).
Holland: F Izu Trench (izu) - Kagoshima (kag) (*Fails*).
Holland: A Karachi (krc) - Bokhara (bkh).
Holland: A Kashgar (ksg) - Kirghiz (kir).
Holland: A Kirghiz (kir) - Mongolia (mon).
Holland: A Krasnoyarsk (kra) - Evenki (eve).
Holland: A Langchow (lch) Supports A Kirghiz (kir) - Mongolia (mon).
Holland: F Luzon (luz) Supports F Philippine (phi).
Holland: F Luzon Sea (lus) - Mindanao (mnd).
Holland: F Marshal Islands (mhl) Supports F West Pacific (wpa).
Holland: F New Guinea (ngu) - Timor (tim).
Holland: F New Zealand (nzl) - Tasman (tas).
Holland: F Okinawa (oki) Supports F Bismark Sea (bis) - Izu Trench (izu)
(*Fails*).
Holland: A Omsk (oms) Supports A Baku (bku) - Georgia (geo).
Holland: A Orenburg (orn) Supports A Baku (bku) - Georgia (geo).
Holland: F Philippine (phi) Supports F Bismark Sea (bis) - Izu Trench (izu)
(*Fails*).
Holland: F Shanghai (sha) - Peking (pek).
Holland: A Sinkiang (snk) Supports A Yunnan (yun) - Chungking (chk).
Holland: A Sofia (sof) Hold.
Holland: F South Atlantic (sat) - Cape Town (ctn).
Holland: F South China Sea (scs) Hold.
Holland: F South West Pacific (swp) - Equatorial CounterCurrent (eco) (*Fails*).
Holland: F Syria (syr)(wc) Supports F Cyprus (cyp) - Eastern Mediterranean
(eas).
Holland: A Tashkent (tsh) - Krasnoyarsk (kra).
Holland: A Tibet (tib) - Kashgar (ksg).
Holland: A Tonkin (tnk) Supports A Canton (can).
Holland: F Tubruq (tbq) Supports F Crete (cre) - Ionian Sea (ion).
Holland: F West Pacific (wpa) Supports F Kuril (kur) (*Ordered to Move*).
Holland: A Wuhan (wuh) Supports F Shanghai (sha) - Peking (pek).
Holland: A Yunnan (yun) - Chungking (chk).

Japan: F Edo (edo) Supports F Bering Sea (bse) - Kuril (kur).
Japan: F Fusan (fsn) Supports F Yellow Sea (yse).
Japan: F Kagoshima (kag) Supports F Yellow Sea (yse) (*Cut*).
Japan: F Kuril (kur) - Sapporo (sap).
Japan: F Port Arthur (poa) Supports A Manchuria (mac).
Japan: F Sea of Japan (soj) Supports F Yellow Sea (yse).
Japan: F Seoul (seo)(wc) Supports F Yellow Sea (yse).
Japan: A Vladivostok (vla) Hold.
Japan: F Yellow Sea (yse) Hold.

Russia: A Warsaw (war) Supports A Sevastopol (sev).
Russia: A Perm (prm) Supports A Moscow (mos).
Russia: A Sevastopol (sev) Supports A Moscow (mos).
Russia: A Moscow (mos) Supports A Perm (prm).

USA: A Alaska (ala) Hold.
USA: A Amazon (ama) Supports A Pramaiba (pra).
USA: F Baltic Sea (bal) Supports F North Sea (nth) - Denmark (den).
USA: A Barcelone (brc) Supports A Amazon (ama).
USA: F Barents Sea (bar) - Norway (nwy).
USA: F Bering Sea (bse) - Kuril (kur).
USA: A Caledonia (cld) Supports A Pramaiba (pra).
USA: F Cayenne (cyn) Supports F North East Trades (net).
USA: F Chesapeake Approaches (che) Supports F North Atlantic (nat).
USA: F Chilean Basin (cba) Supports F Drake (dra).
USA: F Counter Current (ccu) Supports F Hawaii (haw).
USA: F Denmark (den) - Sweden (swe).
USA: F Eastern Carribean (eca) Supports F Sargasso (sar).
USA: F Eastern Pacific (epa) Supports F Kirbati Sea (kse).
USA: F Eastern Seaboard (ese) Supports F North Atlantic (nat).
USA: F Finland (fin)(nc) Supports A St Petersburg (stp).
USA: F Gulf of Bothnia (bot) Supports F Baltic Sea (bal).
USA: F Hawaii (haw) Supports F Kirbati Sea (kse).
USA: F Helgoland Bight (hel) Supports F Norwegian Sea (nwg) - North Sea (nth).
USA: F Hudson (hud) Hold.
USA: F Kamchatka (kam) Supports F Bering Sea (bse) - Kuril (kur).
USA: F Kirbati Sea (kse) Hold.
USA: A Lima (lim) Supports A Amazon (ama).
USA: A Livonia (lvn) Supports A Moscow (mos).
USA: F North Atlantic (nat) Hold.
USA: F North East Trades (net) Hold.
USA: F North Pacific (npa) Supports F Westerlies (wst).
USA: F North Sea (nth) - Denmark (den).
USA: F Norwegian Sea (nwg) - North Sea (nth).
USA: F Nova Scotia (nsc) Supports F North Atlantic (nat).
USA: F Okhotsk (okh) Supports A Vladivostok (vla).
USA: F Pacific Basin (pba) Supports F Chilean Basin (cba).
USA: A Pramaiba (pra) Supports A Amazon (ama).
USA: A Ruperts Land (rla) Hold.
USA: F Sargasso (sar) Hold.
USA: F Society Islands (sct) Supports F South Pacific (spa).
USA: F South Pacific (spa) Hold.
USA: A St Petersburg (stp) Supports A Perm (prm).
USA: F Virgin Islands (vis) Supports F Sargasso (sar).
USA: F Westerlies (wst) Supports F Bering Sea (bse) - Kuril (kur).

Unit locations:

China: A Inner Mongolia (img), A Manchuria (mac).
France: F Adriatic Sea (adr), F The Azores (azo), F Bay of Biscay (bob), A
Berlin (ber), A Bosnia (bos), A Brasilia (bra), F Brazil Current
(bcu), F Cameroon (cmn), F Canary Seaway(cny), F Cape Verde Islands
(vrd), F Coast of Argentina (cag), A Cochabamba (coh), F Drake (dra),
F Falkland Islands (fal), A Galicia (gal), F Grain Coast (gcs), F
Greece (gre), F Gulf of Guinea (gog), F Gulf of Lyon (lyo), F Holland
(hol), A Kiel (kie), A La Paz (lpa), F Middle Atlantic (mat), F Nantes
(nan), F Okrana (okn), A Paris (par), A Quito (qto), F Recife (rec), A
Rio de Janeiro (rdj), A Rouen (rou), A Ruhr (ruh), A Rumania (rum), A
Serbia (ser), F Sicily (sic), A Silesia (sil), F South Georgia Islands
(sgr), A Stuttgart (stu), A Tawarek (twr), F Tripoli (trp), A Tunis
(tun), F Tyrrhenian Sea (tys), A Wallacia (wlc).
Holland: F Aegean Sea (aeg), F Angola (agl), F Angora (ang)(nc), F Antarctic
Indian Ocean(ain), A Aswan (asw), F Barrier Sea (brr), F Bismark Sea
(bis), F Black Sea (bla), A Bokhara (bkh), A Cairo (cai), A Canton
(can), F Cape Town (ctn), F Caroline Islands (crl), A Chungking (chk),
A Congo (cng), F Constantinople (con), F Coral Sea (cor), F Damaraland
(dml), A Dar Es Sallam (dar), F Eastern Mediterranean (eas), F
Equatorial CounterCurrent (eco), A Evenki (eve), A Fezz (fzz), F
Formosa (for), F Fuchan (fuc), A Georgia (geo), F Goodhope (goo), A
Inner Mongolia (img), F Ionian Sea (ion), A Irkutsk (irk), F Izu
Trench (izu), A Kasala (ksl), A Kashgar (ksg), A Kirghiz (kir), A
Krasnoyarsk (kra), A Langchow (lch), F Luzon (luz), F Marshal Islands
(mhl), F Mindanao (mnd), A Mongolia (mon), F New South Wales (nsw), F
Okinawa (oki), A Omsk (oms), A Orenburg (orn), F Peking (pek), F
Philippine (phi), F Queensland (qnl), F Shanghai (sha), A Sinkiang
(snk), A Sofia (sof), F South China Sea (scs), F South West Pacific
(swp), F Syria (syr)(wc), A Tabrize (tbr), F Tasman (tas), F Timor
(tim), A Tonkin (tnk), F Tubruq (tbq), F West Indian (win), F West
Pacific (wpa), A Wuhan (wuh), A Yakutsk (yak), A Yunnan (yun).
Japan: F Edo (edo), F Fusan (fsn), F Kagoshima (kag), F Port Arthur (poa), F
Sapporo (sap), F Sea of Japan (soj), F Seoul (seo)(wc), A Vladivostok
(vla), F Yellow Sea (yse).
Russia: A Warsaw (war), A Perm (prm), A Sevastopol (sev), A Moscow (mos).
USA: A Alaska (ala), A Amazon (ama), F Baltic Sea (bal), A Barcelone (brc),
A Caledonia (cld), F Cayenne (cyn), F Chesapeake Approaches (che), F
Chilean Basin (cba), F Counter Current (ccu), F Denmark (den), F
Eastern Carribean (eca), F Eastern Pacific (epa), F Eastern Seaboard
(ese), F Finland (fin)(nc), F Gulf of Bothnia (bot), F Hawaii (haw), F
Helgoland Bight (hel), F Hudson (hud), F Kamchatka (kam), F Kirbati
Sea (kse), F Kuril (kur), A Lima (lim), A Livonia (lvn), F North
Atlantic (nat), F North East Trades (net), F North Pacific (npa), F
North Sea (nth), F Norway (nwy), F Nova Scotia (nsc), F Okhotsk (okh),
F Pacific Basin (pba), A Pramaiba (pra), A Ruperts Land (rla), F
Sargasso (sar), F Society Islands (sct), F South Pacific (spa), A St
Petersburg (stp), F Sweden (swe), F Virgin Islands (vis), F Westerlies
(wst).

Ownership of supply centers:

Britain: Greenland (grn).
China: Manchuria (mac).
France: The Azores (azo), Bavaria (bav), Berlin (ber), Brasilia (bra),
Budapest (bud), Cameroon (cmn), Cape Verde Islands (vrd), Corsica
(crs), Crete (cre), Croatia (cro), Falkland Islands (fal), Gibraltar
(gib), Grain Coast (gcs), Greece (gre), Holland (hol), Ivory Coast
(ivc), Kiel (kie), La Paz (lpa), Marseilles (mar), Monrovia (mnv),
Morocco (mrc), Nantes (nan), Okrana (okn), Oliveira (oli), Paraguay
(prg), Paris (par), Piedmont (pie), Recife (rec), Rio de Janeiro
(rdj), Rome (rom), Ruhr (ruh), Rumania (rum), Salerno (sal), Serbia
(ser), Sicily (sic), Sierra Leone (sie), Silesia (sil), South Georgia
Islands (sgr), Stuttgart (stu), Tripoli (trp), Tunis (tun), Uruguay
(uru), Valencia (vlc), Venice (ven), Vienna (vie).
Holland: Abyssinia (aby), Aden (ade), Andaman Islands (amn), Angora (ang),
Baghdad (bag), Baku (bku), Bangalore (ban), Bangkok (bnk), Bengal
(ben), Bombay (bom), Borneo (brn), Botswana (bsw), Burma (brm), Cairo
(cai), Cambodia (cmb), Canton (can), Cape Town (ctn), Caroline Islands
(crl), Ceylon (cey), Chungking (chk), Cochin (cch), Constantinople
(con), Cyprus (cyp), Delhi (del), Fiji (fij), Formosa (for), Georgia
(geo), Hong Kong (hko), Irian Java (ija), Irkutsk (irk), Java (jav),
Karachi (krc), Kashmir (kas), Khiva (khv), Luzon (luz), Madagascar
(mad), Madras (mds), Malaysia (mal), Maldives (mld), Marshal Islands
(mhl), Mindanao (mnd), New Guinea (ngu), New South Wales (nsw), New
Zealand (nzl), Okinawa (oki), Oman (oma), Omsk (oms), Orenburg (orn),
Peking (pek), Perth (per), Queensland (qnl), Rangoon (rng), Rhodesia
(rho), Sarawak (srw), Seychelles (sey), Shanghai (sha), Singapore
(sin), Sinkiang (snk), Sofia (sof), Sudan (sud), Sumatra (sum),
Tashkent (tsh), Tehran (teh), Tonkin (tnk), Transvaal (trn), Wuhan
(wuh), Yuthia (yut).
Japan: Edo (edo), Fusan (fsn), Kagoshima (kag), Port Arthur (poa), Sakhurlin
(sak), Sapporo (sap), Seoul (seo), Vladivostok (vla).
Russia: Warsaw (war), Prussia (pru), Sevastopol (sev), Moscow (mos).
USA: Alberta (alb), Anchorage (anc), Atlanta (atl), Austin (aus), The
Bahamas (bah), Barcelone (brc), Bogota (bgt), Cayenne (cyn), Chicago
(chc), Cuba (cub), Denmark (den), Detroit (det), Dublin (dub),
Edinburgh (edi), Galapagos (glp), Haiti (hai), Hawaii (haw), Honduras
(hon), Kansas (kan), Lima (lim), London (lon), Mazatlan (maz), Merida
(mer), Mexico City (mex), Nebraska (neb), New Mexico (nme), New
Orleans (nol), New York (nyc), Norway (nwy), Nova Scotia (nsc),
Oklahoma (okl), Oregon (ore), Panama (pan), Paramaribo (pmb), Quebec
(que), Richmond (ric), San Francisco (sfo), Seattle (sea), Society
Islands (sct), St Petersburg (stp), Sweden (swe), Vancouver (van),
Victoria (vic), Virgin Islands (vis), Washington DC (wdc), Yukon (yuk).

Austria: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
Brazil: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
Britain: 1 Supply center , 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
China: 1 Supply center , 2 Units: Removes 1 unit.
CSA: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
France: 45 Supply centers, 42 Units: Builds 3 units.
Holland: 67 Supply centers, 63 Units: Builds 4 units.
Japan: 8 Supply centers, 9 Units: Removes 1 unit.
Mexico: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
Prussia: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
Russia: 4 Supply centers, 4 Units: Builds 0 units.
Turkey: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
USA: 46 Supply centers, 40 Units: Builds 6 units.


NEXT DEADLINE: WINTER 1879 ADJUSTMENTS DUE SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 1ST (11:59 PM GMT)!!






________________________________
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[Reply]

From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Guns, Germs and Steel 1264 / DC110 - Fall 1879 - Till the Fat Lady Sings...
To: sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com
Cc: "Cat23 1200 List" <Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com>, "dc110" <DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com>, "Rob Ackerley" <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca>, "David E Watson" <dipknight(at)comcast.net>, "Jerry Todd" <sgttodd(at)mainecav.org>, "Jim Atkins" <savwa4(at)comcast.net>, "Lee Taylor" <leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk>, "Mike Hoffman" <mrh(at)panix.com>, "Randolph" <ruffhaus8(at)aol.com>, "Rob Bristol" <rBristol(at)cargojet.com>, "Rob Bristol" <rbristol(at)cogeco.ca>, "Rudi Van Hal" <rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl>, "Rupert Armstrong" <writetorupert(at)gmail.com>, "Steve Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>, "Suzanne Castagne" <sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr>, "Ted Morley" <ee_morley(at)hotmail.com>, "Ted Morley" <Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov>
Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 12:43 AM

In clarification.
The pertinent part of my HRs is Section IX Paragraph (2) - which reads in part:

If, after a period of 4 game years, no Supply Centers have changed ownership, the GM reserves the right, after a warning is given, to declare a draw including all survivors...


The remainder of that paragraph is void in this instance, as I will enforce a DIAS if 4 game years elapse without centers changing hands.


Concerning the variant rules - unless any player has objection we will allow the optional rule of ending the game on Spring 1901. If this occurs, the game result will also be a DIAS.


Trout




On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 3:04 PM, Paolo Sforza <sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com ([email]sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:9ffd82a75a]
Hi Trout,

Just so we all know where we are then I formally ask the question.

This game can finish as a solo on 70 SCs - we all know that. No problem. It can also end as an n-way DRAW if such a proposal is unanimously passed. Again, no problem. All clear as crystal. However, as we could be heading towards game end, sooner rather than later, then exactly what criteria need to met and what duration do these criteria need to in place for you to call a DIAS? Is there an objective set of criteria for the DIAS that we play towards? There is an optional rule (is it in force?) that says '...the game will also end on Spring 1901 should no player possess the required number of supply centers'. The variant optional rule doesn't say what the result will be at game end. Just that the game will end. Is this also a DIAS?

Cheers and thanks,

Paolo.

--- On Thu, 10/30/08, Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])> wrote:

From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Subject: Re: Guns, Germs and Steel 1264 / DC110 - Fall 1879 - Till the Fat Lady Sings...
To: sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com ([email]sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Cc: "Cat23 1200 List" <Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com ([email]Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com[/email])>, "dc110" <DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])>, "Rob Ackerley" <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>, "David E Watson" <dipknight(at)comcast.net ([email]dipknight(at)comcast.net[/email])>, "Jerry Todd" <sgttodd(at)mainecav.org ([email]sgttodd(at)mainecav.org[/email])>, "Jim Atkins" <savwa4(at)comcast.net ([email]savwa4(at)comcast.net[/email])>, "Lee Taylor" <leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk ([email]leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk[/email])>, "Mike Hoffman" <mrh(at)panix.com ([email]mrh(at)panix.com[/email])>, "Randolph" <ruffhaus8(at)aol.com ([email]ruffhaus8(at)aol.com[/email])>, "Rob Bristol" <rBristol(at)cargojet.com ([email]rBristol(at)cargojet.com[/email])>, "Rob Bristol" <rbristol(at)cogeco.ca ([email]rbristol(at)cogeco.ca[/email])>, "Rudi Van Hal" <rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl ([email]rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl[/email])>, "Rupert Armstrong" <writetorupert(at)gmail.com ([email]writetorupert(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "Steve Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "Suzanne Castagne" <sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr ([email]sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr[/email])>, "Ted Morley" <ee_morley(at)hotmail.com ([email]ee_morley(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "Ted Morley" <Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov ([email]Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov[/email])>
Date: Thursday, October 30, 2008, 3:52 PM

For the record.
Any players that do not wish to participate in this game are not held hostage to it. If you wish to abandon this game, please just let me know and I will find a replacement to finish the game off.
It will be labelled a game abandon, however, on the DC club stats. There is nothing I can do about that.
If any player has issues with my House Rules or my GMing style, I will be very happy to entertain your personal grievances in private.
Cheers!
Trout

On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Paolo Sforza <sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com ([email]sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:9ffd82a75a]
Hi guys,

I think I put in this 6-way for last turn, but just in case it is someone else's 6-way proposal, I'd better vote. YES, to the 6-way (China, France, Holland, Japan, Russia, USA) DRAW.

Everyone knows the stalemate line, so as long as it is maintained I shall be putting in this proposal every turn and voting down any other proposition. My family is very long lived so I should see the end. Assuming the House Rules are followed then this game should be over in 4 (L-O-N-G) game year's time when the GM calls a DIAS. I have to mention this now because I don't want this monster to go on a moment longer than necessary. If ANYONE has problems (I absolutely don't) with Steve sharing in this DIAS - so effectively making this a 7-way DRAW then they'd better call for his elimination NOW as this will be an SC change and so the 4-game year clock won't start ticking until after this elimination. If Rupert eliminates Steve in Spring and Rudi keeps voting down the 6-way then the game should end just after Spring 1883 - I make that 3 months (late January) based on how slowly this monstrosity has lurched forward so far (GAWD SAVE US!)

The House Rules say (God forbid we ever actually follow the House Rules, of course) that the movement turns could be a minimum of 2 days duration. If Trout would reduce to this duration AND/OR remove his prohibition on perpetual orders then we could get this nonsense over and done with in a couple of weeks (still far too long in my book).

Like I said, I think, once before. This is game is about as exciting as watching anti-climb paint dry. This is supposed to be a 'short' game as it only requires 70 SCs for a SOLO. Even that fudge can't make this enjoyable. Who the hell invents this crappy huge games, riddled with stalemate lines? Rhetorical question - I DON'T want to know anything more about Imperial2,

Just thought! If packrat is right and REing is the same as FWDing - I might be lucky enough to be replaced! Cor, there IS light at the end of the tunnel.

Cheers to all,

Paolo.





--- On Thu, 10/30/08, Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])> wrote:

From: Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>
Subject: Re: Guns, Germs and Steel 1264 / DC110 - Fall 1879 - Till the Fat Lady Sings...
To: "Former Trout" <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "Cat23 1200 List" <Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com ([email]Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com[/email])>, "dc110" <DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])>
Cc: "David E Watson" <dipknight(at)comcast.net ([email]dipknight(at)comcast.net[/email])>, "Jerry Todd" <sgttodd(at)mainecav.org ([email]sgttodd(at)mainecav.org[/email])>, "Jim Atkins" <savwa4(at)comcast.net ([email]savwa4(at)comcast.net[/email])>, "Lee Taylor" <leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk ([email]leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk[/email])>, "Mike Hoffman" <mrh(at)panix.com ([email]mrh(at)panix.com[/email])>, "Paolo Sforza" <sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com ([email]sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "Randolph" <ruffhaus8(at)aol.com ([email]ruffhaus8(at)aol.com[/email])>, "Rob Bristol" <rBristol(at)cargojet.com ([email]rBristol(at)cargojet.com[/email])>, "Rob Bristol" <rbristol(at)cogeco.ca ([email]rbristol(at)cogeco.ca[/email])>, "Rudi Van Hal" <rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl ([email]rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl[/email])>, "Rupert Armstrong" <writetorupert(at)gmail.com ([email]writetorupert(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "Steve Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "Suzanne Castagne" <sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr ([email]sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr[/email])>, "Ted Morley" <ee_morley(at)hotmail.com ([email]ee_morley(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "Ted Morley" <Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov ([email]Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov[/email])>
Date: Thursday, October 30, 2008, 12:55 PM

YES vote from Russia.

________________________________
From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
To: Cat23 1200 List <Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com ([email]Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com[/email])>; dc110 <DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])>
Cc: David E Watson <dipknight(at)comcast.net ([email]dipknight(at)comcast.net[/email])>; Jerry Todd <sgttodd(at)mainecav.org ([email]sgttodd(at)mainecav.org[/email])>; Jim Atkins <savwa4(at)comcast.net ([email]savwa4(at)comcast.net[/email])>; Lee Taylor <leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk ([email]leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk[/email])>; Mike Hoffman <mrh(at)panix.com ([email]mrh(at)panix.com[/email])>; Paolo Sforza <sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com ([email]sforzapaolo(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; Randolph <ruffhaus8(at)aol.com ([email]ruffhaus8(at)aol.com[/email])>; Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; Rob Bristol <rBristol(at)cargojet.com ([email]rBristol(at)cargojet.com[/email])>; Rob Bristol <rbristol(at)cogeco.ca ([email]rbristol(at)cogeco.ca[/email])>; Rudi Van Hal <rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl ([email]rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl[/email])>; Rupert Armstrong <writetorupert(at)gmail.com ([email]writetorupert(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Steve Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Suzanne Castagne <sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr ([email]sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr[/email])>; Ted Morley <ee_morley(at)hotmail.com ([email]ee_morley(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; Ted Morley <Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov ([email]Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov[/email])>
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 10:51:42 AM
Subject: Guns, Germs and Steel 1264 / DC110 - Fall 1879 - Till the Fat Lady Sings...

- TEMPERS FLARE AS WORLD REALIZES ... IT AIN'T OVER!!
- MEAT TENDERIZERS AND ATHLETIC CUPS FLY OFF SHELVES WORLD-WIDE

Okie. Lets all sit around the fire and have a short talk.

Some of you wish to end this game. I absolutely understand that. But despite how crazy it sounds to some, there are those of you who do NOT wish it to end. At least, not at this point.

This is a monster. We all knew it was a monster when we signed up to play. And the fact that its gone on for quite some time has not changed the truth in any way that this game remains a monster. What we have left with is a very good group of players that all have strong wills and personalities... And a board that seems locked to some but that still actually has quite a lot of play in it.

Please do not be discouraged that, if you are one of those wanting the game to end, that it is not - in fact - ending. =P

But okay - enough blabber from me. Fall rolls around and find Holland undergoing a massive withdrawal and reorganization in the south. China continues to get gobbled up and the British in exile suddenly find two thirds of their town halls waving American flags.

The Dutch solo proposal is kicked under the table meeting defeat. In the meanwhile, a new 6-way draw (US/France/Russia/Holland/Japan/China) is proposed. Please have your yay or nay votes on that submitted to me by the Winter 1879 deadline of Saturday, November 1st (11:59 PM GMT).

Strap on those cups, gentlemen. The time-clock hasn't quite run out. =P

Cheers!

Trout

Movement results for Fall of 1879. (1879 FALL)

China: A Manchuria (mac) Supports A Mongolia (mon) - Inner Mongolia (img).
China: A Mongolia (mon) - Inner Mongolia (img).

France: F Adriatic Sea (adr) Supports F Greece (gre).
France: F The Azores (azo) Supports F Bay of Biscay (bob).
France: F Bay of Biscay (bob) Supports F Nantes (nan).
France: A Berlin (ber) Supports A Kiel (kie).
France: A Bosnia (bos) Supports F Greece (gre).
France: A Brasilia (bra) Supports F Recife (rec).
France: F Brazil Current (bcu) Supports F South Georgia Islands (sgr).
France: F Cameroon (cmn) Supports F Okrana (okn).
France: F Canary Seaway(cny) Supports F Cape Verde Islands (vrd).
France: F Cape Verde Islands (vrd) Supports F Canary Seaway(cny).
France: F Coast of Argentina (cag) Supports F Brazil Current (bcu).
France: F Drake (dra) Supports F Brazil Current (bcu).
France: F Falkland Islands (fal) Supports F Drake (dra).
France: A Galicia (gal) Supports A Sevastopol (sev).
France: A Goyamas (goy) - Cochabamba (coh).
France: F Grain Coast (gcs) Supports F Middle Atlantic (mat).
France: F Greece (gre) Supports A Bosnia (bos).
France: F Gulf of Guinea (gog) Supports F Okrana (okn).
France: F Gulf of Lyon (lyo) - Gibraltar (gib) (*Fails*).
France: F Holland (hol) Supports A Rouen (rou).
France: F Ionian Sea (ion) - Sicily (sic).
France: A Kiel (kie) Supports A Berlin (ber).
France: A La Paz (lpa) Supports A Brasilia (bra).
France: F Middle Atlantic (mat) Supports F Recife (rec).
France: F Nantes (nan) Supports F Bay of Biscay (bob).
France: F Okrana (okn) Supports F Gulf of Guinea (gog).
France: A Paris (par) Supports F Nantes (nan).
France: A Quito (qto) Supports A La Paz (lpa).
France: F Recife (rec) Supports F Middle Atlantic (mat).
France: A Rio de Janeiro (rdj) Supports F Recife (rec).
France: A Rouen (rou) Supports F Holland (hol).
France: A Ruhr (ruh) Supports A Kiel (kie).
France: A Rumania (rum) Supports A Sevastopol (sev).
France: A Serbia (ser) Supports A Bosnia (bos).
France: A Silesia (sil) Supports A Berlin (ber).
France: F South Georgia Islands (sgr) Supports F Brazil Current (bcu).
France: A Stuttgart (stu) Supports A Kiel (kie).
France: A Tawarek (twr) Supports F Tripoli (trp).
France: F Tripoli (trp) Supports A Tunis (tun) (*Cut*).
France: A Tunis (tun) Supports F Tripoli (trp).
France: F Tyrrhenian Sea (tys) Supports A Tunis (tun).
France: A Wallacia (wlc) Supports A Rumania (rum).

Holland: F Angola (agl) - South Atlantic (sat) (*Bounce*).
Holland: F Angora (ang)(nc) Supports F Black Sea (bla).
Holland: F Antarctic Atlantic Ocean (aat) - Goodhope (goo).
Holland: F Antarctic Indian Ocean(ain) Supports F Antarctic Atlantic Ocean
(aat) (*Ordered to Move*).
Holland: F Antarctic Pacific Ocean(apa) - Barrier Sea (brr).
Holland: A Armenia (arm) - Tabrize (tbr).
Holland: A Assam (asm) - Yunnan (yun).
Holland: A Aswan (asw) - Fezz (fzz) (*Fails*).
Holland: A Baku (bku) - Georgia (geo).
Holland: F Barrier Sea (brr) - New South Wales (nsw).
Holland: F Bismark Sea (bis) - Izu Trench (izu) (*Fails*).
Holland: F Black Sea (bla) Convoys A Sevastopol (sev) - Baku (bku) (*Void*).
Holland: A Bokhara (bkh) - Kasala (ksl).
Holland: A Cairo (cai) Supports F Tubruq (tbq).
Holland: A Canton (can) Supports F Hong Kong (hko) - Fuchan (fuc).
Holland: F Caroline Islands (crl) Supports F Bismark Sea (bis) - Izu Trench
(izu) (*Fails*).
Holland: A Congo (cng) Supports F Angola (agl) (*Ordered to Move*).
Holland: F Constantinople (con) Supports A Sofia (sof).
Holland: F Coral Sea (cor) - Queensland (qnl).
Holland: F Crete (cre) - Ionian Sea (ion).
Holland: F Cyprus (cyp) - Eastern Mediterranean (eas).
Holland: F Damaraland (dml) - South Atlantic (sat) (*Bounce*).
Holland: A Dar Es Sallam (dar) Supports A Aswan (asw) - Fezz (fzz) (*Fails*).
Holland: F East China Sea (ecs) - Shanghai (sha).
Holland: F Eastern Mediterranean (eas) - Aegean Sea (aeg).
Holland: F Equatorial CounterCurrent (eco) - Bismark Sea (bis) (*Fails*).
Holland: A Evenki (eve) - Yakutsk (yak).
Holland: A Fezz (fzz) - Tripoli (trp) (*Fails*).
Holland: F Fiji (fij) - Coral Sea (cor).
Holland: F Formosa (for) Hold.
Holland: F Goodhope (goo) - West Indian (win).
Holland: F Hong Kong (hko) - Fuchan (fuc).
Holland: A Inner Mongolia (img) Supports A Irkutsk (irk) - Vladivostok (vla)
(*Disbanded*).
Holland: A Irkutsk (irk) - Vladivostok (vla) (*Fails*).
Holland: F Izu Trench (izu) - Kagoshima (kag) (*Fails*).
Holland: A Karachi (krc) - Bokhara (bkh).
Holland: A Kashgar (ksg) - Kirghiz (kir).
Holland: A Kirghiz (kir) - Mongolia (mon).
Holland: A Krasnoyarsk (kra) - Evenki (eve).
Holland: A Langchow (lch) Supports A Kirghiz (kir) - Mongolia (mon).
Holland: F Luzon (luz) Supports F Philippine (phi).
Holland: F Luzon Sea (lus) - Mindanao (mnd).
Holland: F Marshal Islands (mhl) Supports F West Pacific (wpa).
Holland: F New Guinea (ngu) - Timor (tim).
Holland: F New Zealand (nzl) - Tasman (tas).
Holland: F Okinawa (oki) Supports F Bismark Sea (bis) - Izu Trench (izu)
(*Fails*).
Holland: A Omsk (oms) Supports A Baku (bku) - Georgia (geo).
Holland: A Orenburg (orn) Supports A Baku (bku) - Georgia (geo).
Holland: F Philippine (phi) Supports F Bismark Sea (bis) - Izu Trench (izu)
(*Fails*).
Holland: F Shanghai (sha) - Peking (pek).
Holland: A Sinkiang (snk) Supports A Yunnan (yun) - Chungking (chk).
Holland: A Sofia (sof) Hold.
Holland: F South Atlantic (sat) - Cape Town (ctn).
Holland: F South China Sea (scs) Hold.
Holland: F South West Pacific (swp) - Equatorial CounterCurrent (eco) (*Fails*).
Holland: F Syria (syr)(wc) Supports F Cyprus (cyp) - Eastern Mediterranean
(eas).
Holland: A Tashkent (tsh) - Krasnoyarsk (kra).
Holland: A Tibet (tib) - Kashgar (ksg).
Holland: A Tonkin (tnk) Supports A Canton (can).
Holland: F Tubruq (tbq) Supports F Crete (cre) - Ionian Sea (ion).
Holland: F West Pacific (wpa) Supports F Kuril (kur) (*Ordered to Move*).
Holland: A Wuhan (wuh) Supports F Shanghai (sha) - Peking (pek).
Holland: A Yunnan (yun) - Chungking (chk).

Japan: F Edo (edo) Supports F Bering Sea (bse) - Kuril (kur).
Japan: F Fusan (fsn) Supports F Yellow Sea (yse).
Japan: F Kagoshima (kag) Supports F Yellow Sea (yse) (*Cut*).
Japan: F Kuril (kur) - Sapporo (sap).
Japan: F Port Arthur (poa) Supports A Manchuria (mac).
Japan: F Sea of Japan (soj) Supports F Yellow Sea (yse).
Japan: F Seoul (seo)(wc) Supports F Yellow Sea (yse).
Japan: A Vladivostok (vla) Hold.
Japan: F Yellow Sea (yse) Hold.

Russia: A Warsaw (war) Supports A Sevastopol (sev).
Russia: A Perm (prm) Supports A Moscow (mos).
Russia: A Sevastopol (sev) Supports A Moscow (mos).
Russia: A Moscow (mos) Supports A Perm (prm).

USA: A Alaska (ala) Hold.
USA: A Amazon (ama) Supports A Pramaiba (pra).
USA: F Baltic Sea (bal) Supports F North Sea (nth) - Denmark (den).
USA: A Barcelone (brc) Supports A Amazon (ama).
USA: F Barents Sea (bar) - Norway (nwy).
USA: F Bering Sea (bse) - Kuril (kur).
USA: A Caledonia (cld) Supports A Pramaiba (pra).
USA: F Cayenne (cyn) Supports F North East Trades (net).
USA: F Chesapeake Approaches (che) Supports F North Atlantic (nat).
USA: F Chilean Basin (cba) Supports F Drake (dra).
USA: F Counter Current (ccu) Supports F Hawaii (haw).
USA: F Denmark (den) - Sweden (swe).
USA: F Eastern Carribean (eca) Supports F Sargasso (sar).
USA: F Eastern Pacific (epa) Supports F Kirbati Sea (kse).
USA: F Eastern Seaboard (ese) Supports F North Atlantic (nat).
USA: F Finland (fin)(nc) Supports A St Petersburg (stp).
USA: F Gulf of Bothnia (bot) Supports F Baltic Sea (bal).
USA: F Hawaii (haw) Supports F Kirbati Sea (kse).
USA: F Helgoland Bight (hel) Supports F Norwegian Sea (nwg) - North Sea (nth).
USA: F Hudson (hud) Hold.
USA: F Kamchatka (kam) Supports F Bering Sea (bse) - Kuril (kur).
USA: F Kirbati Sea (kse) Hold.
USA: A Lima (lim) Supports A Amazon (ama).
USA: A Livonia (lvn) Supports A Moscow (mos).
USA: F North Atlantic (nat) Hold.
USA: F North East Trades (net) Hold.
USA: F North Pacific (npa) Supports F Westerlies (wst).
USA: F North Sea (nth) - Denmark (den).
USA: F Norwegian Sea (nwg) - North Sea (nth).
USA: F Nova Scotia (nsc) Supports F North Atlantic (nat).
USA: F Okhotsk (okh) Supports A Vladivostok (vla).
USA: F Pacific Basin (pba) Supports F Chilean Basin (cba).
USA: A Pramaiba (pra) Supports A Amazon (ama).
USA: A Ruperts Land (rla) Hold.
USA: F Sargasso (sar) Hold.
USA: F Society Islands (sct) Supports F South Pacific (spa).
USA: F South Pacific (spa) Hold.
USA: A St Petersburg (stp) Supports A Perm (prm).
USA: F Virgin Islands (vis) Supports F Sargasso (sar).
USA: F Westerlies (wst) Supports F Bering Sea (bse) - Kuril (kur).

Unit locations:

China: A Inner Mongolia (img), A Manchuria (mac).
France: F Adriatic Sea (adr), F The Azores (azo), F Bay of Biscay (bob), A
Berlin (ber), A Bosnia (bos), A Brasilia (bra), F Brazil Current
(bcu), F Cameroon (cmn), F Canary Seaway(cny), F Cape Verde Islands
(vrd), F Coast of Argentina (cag), A Cochabamba (coh), F Drake (dra),
F Falkland Islands (fal), A Galicia (gal), F Grain Coast (gcs), F
Greece (gre), F Gulf of Guinea (gog), F Gulf of Lyon (lyo), F Holland
(hol), A Kiel (kie), A La Paz (lpa), F Middle Atlantic (mat), F Nantes
(nan), F Okrana (okn), A Paris (par), A Quito (qto), F Recife (rec), A
Rio de Janeiro (rdj), A Rouen (rou), A Ruhr (ruh), A Rumania (rum), A
Serbia (ser), F Sicily (sic), A Silesia (sil), F South Georgia Islands
(sgr), A Stuttgart (stu), A Tawarek (twr), F Tripoli (trp), A Tunis
(tun), F Tyrrhenian Sea (tys), A Wallacia (wlc).
Holland: F Aegean Sea (aeg), F Angola (agl), F Angora (ang)(nc), F Antarctic
Indian Ocean(ain), A Aswan (asw), F Barrier Sea (brr), F Bismark Sea
(bis), F Black Sea (bla), A Bokhara (bkh), A Cairo (cai), A Canton
(can), F Cape Town (ctn), F Caroline Islands (crl), A Chungking (chk),
A Congo (cng), F Constantinople (con), F Coral Sea (cor), F Damaraland
(dml), A Dar Es Sallam (dar), F Eastern Mediterranean (eas), F
Equatorial CounterCurrent (eco), A Evenki (eve), A Fezz (fzz), F
Formosa (for), F Fuchan (fuc), A Georgia (geo), F Goodhope (goo), A
Inner Mongolia (img), F Ionian Sea (ion), A Irkutsk (irk), F Izu
Trench (izu), A Kasala (ksl), A Kashgar (ksg), A Kirghiz (kir), A
Krasnoyarsk (kra), A Langchow (lch), F Luzon (luz), F Marshal Islands
(mhl), F Mindanao (mnd), A Mongolia (mon), F New South Wales (nsw), F
Okinawa (oki), A Omsk (oms), A Orenburg (orn), F Peking (pek), F
Philippine (phi), F Queensland (qnl), F Shanghai (sha), A Sinkiang
(snk), A Sofia (sof), F South China Sea (scs), F South West Pacific
(swp), F Syria (syr)(wc), A Tabrize (tbr), F Tasman (tas), F Timor
(tim), A Tonkin (tnk), F Tubruq (tbq), F West Indian (win), F West
Pacific (wpa), A Wuhan (wuh), A Yakutsk (yak), A Yunnan (yun).
Japan: F Edo (edo), F Fusan (fsn), F Kagoshima (kag), F Port Arthur (poa), F
Sapporo (sap), F Sea of Japan (soj), F Seoul (seo)(wc), A Vladivostok
(vla), F Yellow Sea (yse).
Russia: A Warsaw (war), A Perm (prm), A Sevastopol (sev), A Moscow (mos).
USA: A Alaska (ala), A Amazon (ama), F Baltic Sea (bal), A Barcelone (brc),
A Caledonia (cld), F Cayenne (cyn), F Chesapeake Approaches (che), F
Chilean Basin (cba), F Counter Current (ccu), F Denmark (den), F
Eastern Carribean (eca), F Eastern Pacific (epa), F Eastern Seaboard
(ese), F Finland (fin)(nc), F Gulf of Bothnia (bot), F Hawaii (haw), F
Helgoland Bight (hel), F Hudson (hud), F Kamchatka (kam), F Kirbati
Sea (kse), F Kuril (kur), A Lima (lim), A Livonia (lvn), F North
Atlantic (nat), F North East Trades (net), F North Pacific (npa), F
North Sea (nth), F Norway (nwy), F Nova Scotia (nsc), F Okhotsk (okh),
F Pacific Basin (pba), A Pramaiba (pra), A Ruperts Land (rla), F
Sargasso (sar), F Society Islands (sct), F South Pacific (spa), A St
Petersburg (stp), F Sweden (swe), F Virgin Islands (vis), F Westerlies
(wst).

Ownership of supply centers:

Britain: Greenland (grn).
China: Manchuria (mac).
France: The Azores (azo), Bavaria (bav), Berlin (ber), Brasilia (bra),
Budapest (bud), Cameroon (cmn), Cape Verde Islands (vrd), Corsica
(crs), Crete (cre), Croatia (cro), Falkland Islands (fal), Gibraltar
(gib), Grain Coast (gcs), Greece (gre), Holland (hol), Ivory Coast
(ivc), Kiel (kie), La Paz (lpa), Marseilles (mar), Monrovia (mnv),
Morocco (mrc), Nantes (nan), Okrana (okn), Oliveira (oli), Paraguay
(prg), Paris (par), Piedmont (pie), Recife (rec), Rio de Janeiro
(rdj), Rome (rom), Ruhr (ruh), Rumania (rum), Salerno (sal), Serbia
(ser), Sicily (sic), Sierra Leone (sie), Silesia (sil), South Georgia
Islands (sgr), Stuttgart (stu), Tripoli (trp), Tunis (tun), Uruguay
(uru), Valencia (vlc), Venice (ven), Vienna (vie).
Holland: Abyssinia (aby), Aden (ade), Andaman Islands (amn), Angora (ang),
Baghdad (bag), Baku (bku), Bangalore (ban), Bangkok (bnk), Bengal
(ben), Bombay (bom), Borneo (brn), Botswana (bsw), Burma (brm), Cairo
(cai), Cambodia (cmb), Canton (can), Cape Town (ctn), Caroline Islands
(crl), Ceylon (cey), Chungking (chk), Cochin (cch), Constantinople
(con), Cyprus (cyp), Delhi (del), Fiji (fij), Formosa (for), Georgia
(geo), Hong Kong (hko), Irian Java (ija), Irkutsk (irk), Java (jav),
Karachi (krc), Kashmir (kas), Khiva (khv), Luzon (luz), Madagascar
(mad), Madras (mds), Malaysia (mal), Maldives (mld), Marshal Islands
(mhl), Mindanao (mnd), New Guinea (ngu), New South Wales (nsw), New
Zealand (nzl), Okinawa (oki), Oman (oma), Omsk (oms), Orenburg (orn),
Peking (pek), Perth (per), Queensland (qnl), Rangoon (rng), Rhodesia
(rho), Sarawak (srw), Seychelles (sey), Shanghai (sha), Singapore
(sin), Sinkiang (snk), Sofia (sof), Sudan (sud), Sumatra (sum),
Tashkent (tsh), Tehran (teh), Tonkin (tnk), Transvaal (trn), Wuhan
(wuh), Yuthia (yut).
Japan: Edo (edo), Fusan (fsn), Kagoshima (kag), Port Arthur (poa), Sakhurlin
(sak), Sapporo (sap), Seoul (seo), Vladivostok (vla).
Russia: Warsaw (war), Prussia (pru), Sevastopol (sev), Moscow (mos).
USA: Alberta (alb), Anchorage (anc), Atlanta (atl), Austin (aus), The
Bahamas (bah), Barcelone (brc), Bogota (bgt), Cayenne (cyn), Chicago
(chc), Cuba (cub), Denmark (den), Detroit (det), Dublin (dub),
Edinburgh (edi), Galapagos (glp), Haiti (hai), Hawaii (haw), Honduras
(hon), Kansas (kan), Lima (lim), London (lon), Mazatlan (maz), Merida
(mer), Mexico City (mex), Nebraska (neb), New Mexico (nme), New
Orleans (nol), New York (nyc), Norway (nwy), Nova Scotia (nsc),
Oklahoma (okl), Oregon (ore), Panama (pan), Paramaribo (pmb), Quebec
(que), Richmond (ric), San Francisco (sfo), Seattle (sea), Society
Islands (sct), St Petersburg (stp), Sweden (swe), Vancouver (van),
Victoria (vic), Virgin Islands (vis), Washington DC (wdc), Yukon (yuk).

Austria: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
Brazil: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
Britain: 1 Supply center , 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
China: 1 Supply center , 2 Units: Removes 1 unit.
CSA: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
France: 45 Supply centers, 42 Units: Builds 3 units.
Holland: 67 Supply centers, 63 Units: Builds 4 units.
Japan: 8 Supply centers, 9 Units: Removes 1 unit.
Mexico: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
Prussia: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
Russia: 4 Supply centers, 4 Units: Builds 0 units.
Turkey: 0 Supply centers, 0 Units: Builds 0 units.
USA: 46 Supply centers, 40 Units: Builds 6 units.


NEXT DEADLINE: WINTER 1879 ADJUSTMENTS DUE SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 1ST (11:59 PM GMT)!!






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