dc226 Standard\Summer/1902
============================
Map, Results Attached!
COMMENTARY AND RESULTS
======================
The Deadline for gunboat game dc226, Fall 1902, is Thursday Feb
12, at 2400 hrs MT!
NEW TURKEY! Thanks go out to Turkey and France for getting in
retreats before deadline!
RULES FOR PRESS:
1. Press may be sent in at anytime!
2. Press sent in with orders will be published with orders.
3. Press sent in separate from orders may be published at
anytime between deadlines.
4. GM not responsible for publishing press ahead of orders when
press arrives separate from orders. Even when directed to do
otherwise!
5. GM not responsible for not publishing press sent in with
orders when directed to do otherwise!
6. GM not responsible for not publishing press sent in with
orders when press precedes orders on same page!
7. When same press does not repeat with order change, previous
Press with orders,will not be published.
8. If you wish to change Press with orders, then resubmit
orders with press.
An attempt will be made to group press by Country it is
addressed to, then in order listed! Black Press rules apply,
you may use any byline.
GM has right to edit or not publish press not related to game,
or is indecent by GM personal standards or in some other way is
hateful or personal. GM does not always read press completely,
and can not be held responsible if some unacceptable press is
published.
Retreats: Su/1902
=================================================================
France : Retreat: A mun - boh
Turkey : Retreat: A sev - rum
=================================================================
Ownership
Su\02 |# SC| [HOME SUPPLY CENTER] (BUILD CENTER)
=================================================================
Austria |( 5)|[AUST,tri,vie,bud],gre,ser
England |( 4)|[ENGL,lon,lvp,edi],nwy
France |( 6)|[FRAN,mar,bre,par](mun),por,spa
Germany |( 4)|[GERM,kie,ber],den,hol
Italy |( 4)|[ITAL,rom,nap,ven],tun
Russia |( 3)|[RUSS,war,mos,stp]
Turkey |( 5)|[TURK,smy,ank,con](sev),bul
Madman |( 3)|,bel,rum,swe
=================================================================
Total = ( 34)
POSITIONS
Su\02 |
=================================================================
Austria | A bud, A gal, N gre, A ser, A tyr
England | N NTH, N SKA, N swe, A yor
France | A boh, A bur, A mar, N MID, A pic, A spa
Germany | A ber, N kie, A mun, A ruh
Italy | A apu, N TYN, A ven, N WES
Russia | N sev, A ukr, A war
Turkey | A arm, N BLA, A bul, N con, A rum
Madman |
=================================================================
DIPYCORP PRESS RELEASES
New Turkey to Austria:
I can see from last seasons moves that you were friends with
the previous Turkish sultan. I have no intention of breaking
this friendship since it appears to have work well for both of
our great nations in the past. Please fill me in on the
details of your agreements with the previous Turkish sultan in
your next press.
From The Czar of Russia-
Nations of Europe, I, Your Humble Czar, have been tried my
hardest to refrain from violence, we Russians have always
intended to use any military power we have to insure peace
throughout our land. Unfortunately, Austria has felt that
WE, WE pose a threat to you. For the longest time we have
remained in our cities, watching our world fall apart, and
desired to do nothing but assist in peace. We have
endeavored to form a trust with each and every one of you,
so we can all work toward mutual goals. Ladies and
Gentlemen, Kings and Queens, Dukes and Duchesses, Prime
Ministers and First ladies, Austria and Turkey have
violated that trust! Thankfully, the turkish people have
realized this, and have ejected their former leader and
installed a new, more sensible one. However, the facts
remain. Austria ordered attacks, by turkey, on us, your
humble guardian-servant. Our City of Sevestpol is still
burning, even after an entire season. Sevestpol has been
left with its father's dead, mother's raped, and children
kidnaped and pressed into Turkish service. ALL BECAUSE OF
AUSTRIA! The time has come, Europe, to band together, and
fight the forces that seek nothing but their own dominion.
They'll invade our space, and we'll fall back. They'll take
over entire supply centers, and we'll fall back. Well, not
again, and never again. The line must be drawn HERE, and we
will make them PAY for WHAT THEY HAVE DONE! -Your
Czar-protector
Germany to Austria: Archduke, there is still time to draw back
our two great Nations from the brink of disaster. We are at a
loss as the cause of your enemity, Germany and Austria/Hungary
being traditional friends. You will shortly be under serious
attack from three sides, why invite us to join your enemies?
Your presence in TYL and threatened support of the French will
bring you no gain, as France has his eyes firmly set on MUN
with no possibility of spoils for you. I would hope that even
that this late stage you can see the storm clouds gathering
againt you in the Balkans, the Aegean and GAL, why even VIE
could be under threat from the rogue French. It is in these
circumstances that we ask you to desist from supporting the
French, and return your armies to base in VIE or TRI. Should
you choose not to respond or to decline, then we will support
Italy in whatever endeavour she will do to remove your threat
to her from TYL. We await your timely response.
The Kaiser
The King of France accepts the hospitality of the Archduke.
With your Tyrolian Army, would you be willing to support my
return to Mun? I am eager to have my Army out of your
territories as quickly as possible and make the area safer for
both our countries.
Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr![Reply] |
DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD (dc209) jason4747 Feb 09, 11:36 am |
Mike,
To be fair, MSt almost equals HSt on my screen, but it is no excuse for goegraphy stupidity on my part....
As for that and other error, kids, let it be a lesson to you - multitasking just does not work. And just say no to drugs.
Jason
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 18:46:41 -0800
From: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com
Subject: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: jason4747(at)hotmail.com; Githraine(at)yahoo.com; former.trout(at)gmail.com; zeclient(at)hotmail.com; salexander37(at)gmail.com; rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca; mike(at)southwall.com
CC: stevelytton(at)hotmail.com; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
I didn't think I'd see days like these either. John Lennon. P was on the road away from map but it is I's moves which are the show. 1. Malacca Strait clearly can't be HST so not a reading the map issue. Hold. 2. F jak move to Cjak has no coast. Hold. 3. Only 7 moves - none for F Jav. Hold. The 1 P ret is a given but F Jav can go many places. Mon due. Indonesian F Jav can retreat to NIO or Bal or SlS or Slw or ETi
or WTi or CJa(nc).
Philippine F SCS can retreat to Luz.
Indonesia:
F And - Bur (*Fails*)
F TiS Supports F PHe - SIO
F Jav, no move received (*Dislodged*)
F PHe - SIO
F Jak Hold
F Med Hold
A Sab - Kuc
A Kuc - WKa
Malaysia:
F Bru Supports A Sab - Kuc
A Pah - KLu (*Fails*)
Philippines:
F NPS - ECS (*Fails*)
F SCS Supports F NPS - ECS (*Dislodged*)
F SuS Supports F Ceb - SSe
F Ara - BaS
F Ceb - SSe
A Luz - Man
F Tai Supports F SCS
Thailand:
F GTh - Tha(ec) (*Bounce*)
F MSe - Jav
F Sur Supports F MSe - Jav
F Sin Supports F MSe - Jav
F SpI - MSe
F Ked - MSt
A KBh - Tha (*Bounce*)
A KLu Supports F Sin (*Cut*)
A Bur Hold
Vietnam:
F ECS - NPS (*Fails*)
F SSe - SpI
F ViS Supports F Fuj - SCS
F Sai Supports F SpI - MSe
A HKo - Dav (*Fails*)
F Fuj - SCS
F Guz Supports F Fuj - SCS
Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync. See how it works. |
DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD (dc209) FuzzyLogic Feb 09, 11:46 am |
MST and HST look identical in that font. Why are we not allowing that move? It's not ambiguous, and the lettering could be read as either one.
-mike
From: Jason 4747 [mailto:jason4747(at)hotmail.com]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 11:35 AM
To: 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Thailand Trout former.trout; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley; Michael Sims
Cc: DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Mike,
To be fair, MSt almost equals HSt on my screen, but it is no excuse for goegraphy stupidity on my part....
As for that and other error, kids, let it be a lesson to you - multitasking just does not work. And just say no to drugs.
Jason
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 18:46:41 -0800
From: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com
Subject: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: jason4747(at)hotmail.com; Githraine(at)yahoo.com; former.trout(at)gmail.com; zeclient(at)hotmail.com; salexander37(at)gmail.com; rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca; mike(at)southwall.com
CC: stevelytton(at)hotmail.com; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
I didn't think I'd see days like these either. John Lennon. P was on the road away from map but it is I's moves which are the show. 1. Malacca Strait clearly can't be HST so not a reading the map issue. Hold. 2. F jak move to Cjak has no coast. Hold. 3. Only 7 moves - none for F Jav. Hold. The 1 P ret is a given but F Jav can go many places. Mon due. Indonesian F Jav can retreat to NIO or Bal or SlS or Slw or ETi
or WTi or CJa(nc).
Philippine F SCS can retreat to Luz.
Indonesia:
F And - Bur (*Fails*)
F TiS Supports F PHe - SIO
F Jav, no move received (*Dislodged*)
F PHe - SIO
F Jak Hold
F Med Hold
A Sab - Kuc
A Kuc - WKa
Malaysia:
F Bru Supports A Sab - Kuc
A Pah - KLu (*Fails*)
Philippines:
F NPS - ECS (*Fails*)
F SCS Supports F NPS - ECS (*Dislodged*)
F SuS Supports F Ceb - SSe
F Ara - BaS
F Ceb - SSe
A Luz - Man
F Tai Supports F SCS
Thailand:
F GTh - Tha(ec) (*Bounce*)
F MSe - Jav
F Sur Supports F MSe - Jav
F Sin Supports F MSe - Jav
F SpI - MSe
F Ked - MSt
A KBh - Tha (*Bounce*)
A KLu Supports F Sin (*Cut*)
A Bur Hold
Vietnam:
F ECS - NPS (*Fails*)
F SSe - SpI
F ViS Supports F Fuj - SCS
F Sai Supports F SpI - MSe
A HKo - Dav (*Fails*)
F Fuj - SCS
F Guz Supports F Fuj - SCS
Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync. See how it works. |
DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD (dc209) former.trout Feb 09, 01:21 pm |
Personally I would allow the move as well. However, to be fair to Michael, he identified WAY early at the beginning of the game that he was going to be taking a strict interpretation of the abbreviations. I almost had an order disallowed because I didn't call the province the right name - but luckily I included the correct abbreviation in brackets...
Long story short, I'd say its the GMs call to make. =)
T.
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
MST and HST look identical in that font. Why are we not allowing that move? It's not ambiguous, and the lettering could be read as either one.
-mike
From: Jason 4747 [mailto:jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 11:35 AM
To: 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Thailand Trout former.trout; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley; Michael Sims
Cc: DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Mike,
To be fair, MSt almost equals HSt on my screen, but it is no excuse for goegraphy stupidity on my part....
As for that and other error, kids, let it be a lesson to you - multitasking just does not work. And just say no to drugs.
Jason
[quote:ef5e740401]Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 18:46:41 -0800
From: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Subject: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email]); Githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]Githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email]); former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email]); salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email]); rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email]); mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])
CC: stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
I didn't think I'd see days like these either. John Lennon. P was on the road away from map but it is I's moves which are the show. 1. Malacca Strait clearly can't be HST so not a reading the map issue. Hold. 2. F jak move to Cjak has no coast. Hold. 3. Only 7 moves - none for F Jav. Hold. The 1 P ret is a given but F Jav can go many places. Mon due. Indonesian F Jav can retreat to NIO or Bal or SlS or Slw or ETi
or WTi or CJa(nc).
Philippine F SCS can retreat to Luz.
Indonesia:
F And - Bur (*Fails*)
F TiS Supports F PHe - SIO
F Jav, no move received (*Dislodged*)
F PHe - SIO
F Jak Hold
F Med Hold
A Sab - Kuc
A Kuc - WKa
Malaysia:
F Bru Supports A Sab - Kuc
A Pah - KLu (*Fails*)
Philippines:
F NPS - ECS (*Fails*)
F SCS Supports F NPS - ECS (*Dislodged*)
F SuS Supports F Ceb - SSe
F Ara - BaS
F Ceb - SSe
A Luz - Man
F Tai Supports F SCS
Thailand:
F GTh - Tha(ec) (*Bounce*)
F MSe - Jav
F Sur Supports F MSe - Jav
F Sin Supports F MSe - Jav
F SpI - MSe
F Ked - MSt
A KBh - Tha (*Bounce*)
A KLu Supports F Sin (*Cut*)
A Bur Hold
Vietnam:
F ECS - NPS (*Fails*)
F SSe - SpI
F ViS Supports F Fuj - SCS
F Sai Supports F SpI - MSe
A HKo - Dav (*Fails*)
F Fuj - SCS
F Guz Supports F Fuj - SCS
Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync. See how it works.
[/quote:ef5e740401] |
DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD (dc209) FuzzyLogic Feb 09, 01:27 pm |
Yeah but you have to agree the map clearly looks like HST, or certainly could be read that way. I mean if we cant rely on the abbreviations on the map we're receiving from the GM, then what can we rely on?
From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:20 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Personally I would allow the move as well. However, to be fair to Michael, he identified WAY early at the beginning of the game that he was going to be taking a strict interpretation of the abbreviations. I almost had an order disallowed because I didn't call the province the right name - but luckily I included the correct abbreviation in brackets...
Long story short, I'd say its the GMs call to make. =)
T.
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
MST and HST look identical in that font. Why are we not allowing that move? It's not ambiguous, and the lettering could be read as either one.
-mike
From: Jason 4747 [mailto:jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 11:35 AM
To: 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Thailand Trout former.trout; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley; Michael Sims
Cc: DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Mike,
To be fair, MSt almost equals HSt on my screen, but it is no excuse for goegraphy stupidity on my part....
As for that and other error, kids, let it be a lesson to you - multitasking just does not work. And just say no to drugs.
Jason
[quote:80cdc766fe]Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 18:46:41 -0800
From: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Subject: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email]); Githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]Githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email]); former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email]); salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email]); rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email]); mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])
CC: stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
I didn't think I'd see days like these either. John Lennon. P was on the road away from map but it is I's moves which are the show. 1. Malacca Strait clearly can't be HST so not a reading the map issue. Hold. 2. F jak move to Cjak has no coast. Hold. 3. Only 7 moves - none for F Jav. Hold. The 1 P ret is a given but F Jav can go many places. Mon due. Indonesian F Jav can retreat to NIO or Bal or SlS or Slw or ETi
or WTi or CJa(nc).
Philippine F SCS can retreat to Luz.
Indonesia:
F And - Bur (*Fails*)
F TiS Supports F PHe - SIO
F Jav, no move received (*Dislodged*)
F PHe - SIO
F Jak Hold
F Med Hold
A Sab - Kuc
A Kuc - WKa
Malaysia:
F Bru Supports A Sab - Kuc
A Pah - KLu (*Fails*)
Philippines:
F NPS - ECS (*Fails*)
F SCS Supports F NPS - ECS (*Dislodged*)
F SuS Supports F Ceb - SSe
F Ara - BaS
F Ceb - SSe
A Luz - Man
F Tai Supports F SCS
Thailand:
F GTh - Tha(ec) (*Bounce*)
F MSe - Jav
F Sur Supports F MSe - Jav
F Sin Supports F MSe - Jav
F SpI - MSe
F Ked - MSt
A KBh - Tha (*Bounce*)
A KLu Supports F Sin (*Cut*)
A Bur Hold
Vietnam:
F ECS - NPS (*Fails*)
F SSe - SpI
F ViS Supports F Fuj - SCS
F Sai Supports F SpI - MSe
A HKo - Dav (*Fails*)
F Fuj - SCS
F Guz Supports F Fuj - SCS
Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync. See how it works.
[/quote:80cdc766fe] |
DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD (dc209) vegas_iwish Feb 09, 01:50 pm |
1 can clearly read Malacca Strait underneath the 3 letters in dispute. That alone makes it clear. The other earlier errors had the same conflict that should have raised a white flag.
--- On Mon, 2/9/09, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com> wrote:
From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com>
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: "Former Trout" <former.trout(at)gmail.com>
Cc: "Jason 4747" <jason4747(at)hotmail.com>, "209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT" <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com>, "158NewArchersJason Longbow" <githraine(at)yahoo.com>, "209Australia Nick Cherrier" <zeclient(at)hotmail.com>, "209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts" <salexander37(at)gmail.com>, "209Vietnam Rob Ackerley" <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca>, "DC101tGMStephen Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>, dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 11:24 AM
Yeah but you have to agree the map clearly looks like HST,
or certainly could be read that way. I mean if we cant rely
on the abbreviations on the map we're receiving from the
GM, then what can we rely on?
________________________________
From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:20 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason
Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob
Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley; DC101tGMStephen Lytton;
dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Personally I would allow the move as well. However, to be
fair to Michael, he identified WAY early at the beginning of
the game that he was going to be taking a strict
interpretation of the abbreviations. I almost had an order
disallowed because I didn't call the province the right
name - but luckily I included the correct abbreviation in
brackets...
Long story short, I'd say its the GMs call to make. =)
T.
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Michael Sims
<mike(at)southwall.com> wrote:
MST and HST look identical in that font. Why are we not
allowing that move? It's not ambiguous, and the
lettering could be read as either one.
-mike
________________________________
From: Jason 4747 [mailto:jason4747(at)hotmail.com]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 11:35 AM
To: 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason Longbow;
209Thailand Trout former.trout; 209Australia Nick Cherrier;
209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley;
Michael Sims
Cc: DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Mike,
To be fair, MSt almost equals HSt on my screen, but it is
no excuse for goegraphy stupidity on my part....
As for that and other error, kids, let it be a lesson to
you - multitasking just does not work. And just say no to
drugs.
Jason
> Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 18:46:41 -0800
> From: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com
> Subject: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
> To: jason4747(at)hotmail.com; Githraine(at)yahoo.com;
former.trout(at)gmail.com; zeclient(at)hotmail.com;
salexander37(at)gmail.com; rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca;
mike(at)southwall.com
> CC: stevelytton(at)hotmail.com; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
>
> I didn't think I'd see days like these
either. John Lennon. P was on the road away from map but it
is I's moves which are the show. 1. Malacca Strait
clearly can't be HST so not a reading the map issue.
Hold. 2. F jak move to Cjak has no coast. Hold. 3. Only 7
moves - none for F Jav. Hold. The 1 P ret is a given but F
Jav can go many places. Mon due. Indonesian F Jav can
retreat to NIO or Bal or SlS or Slw or ETi
> or WTi or CJa(nc).
> Philippine F SCS can retreat to Luz.
>
> Indonesia:
> F And - Bur (*Fails*)
> F TiS Supports F PHe - SIO
> F Jav, no move received (*Dislodged*)
> F PHe - SIO
> F Jak Hold
> F Med Hold
> A Sab - Kuc
> A Kuc - WKa
>
> Malaysia:
> F Bru Supports A Sab - Kuc
> A Pah - KLu (*Fails*)
>
> Philippines:
> F NPS - ECS (*Fails*)
> F SCS Supports F NPS - ECS (*Dislodged*)
> F SuS Supports F Ceb - SSe
> F Ara - BaS
> F Ceb - SSe
> A Luz - Man
> F Tai Supports F SCS
>
> Thailand:
> F GTh - Tha(ec) (*Bounce*)
> F MSe - Jav
> F Sur Supports F MSe - Jav
> F Sin Supports F MSe - Jav
> F SpI - MSe
> F Ked - MSt
> A KBh - Tha (*Bounce*)
> A KLu Supports F Sin (*Cut*)
> A Bur Hold
>
> Vietnam:
> F ECS - NPS (*Fails*)
> F SSe - SpI
> F ViS Supports F Fuj - SCS
> F Sai Supports F SpI - MSe
> A HKo - Dav (*Fails*)
> F Fuj - SCS
> F Guz Supports F Fuj - SCS
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________
Windows Live(tm): Keep your life in sync. See how it
works.
<http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_022009> |
DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD (dc209) roback80 Feb 09, 01:52 pm |
Cut and paste from RP Saves all the problems and is a lot less work too!
From: MICHAEL BOUTOT <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com>
To: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com>; Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com>
Cc: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com>; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 1:49:43 PM
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
1 can clearly read Malacca Strait underneath the 3 letters in dispute. That alone makes it clear. The other earlier errors had the same conflict that should have raised a white flag.
--- On Mon, 2/9/09, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: "Former Trout" <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: "Jason 4747" <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT" <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "158NewArchersJason Longbow" <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "209Australia Nick Cherrier" <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts" <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "209Vietnam Rob Ackerley" <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>, "DC101tGMStephen Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 11:24 AM
Yeah but you have to agree the map clearly looks like HST,
or certainly could be read that way. I mean if we cant rely
on the abbreviations on the map we're receiving from the
GM, then what can we rely on?
________________________________
From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:20 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason
Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob
Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley; DC101tGMStephen Lytton;
dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Personally I would allow the move as well. However, to be
fair to Michael, he identified WAY early at the beginning of
the game that he was going to be taking a strict
interpretation of the abbreviations. I almost had an order
disallowed because I didn't call the province the right
name - but luckily I included the correct abbreviation in
brackets...
Long story short, I'd say its the GMs call to make. =)
T.
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Michael Sims
<mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
MST and HST look identical in that font. Why are we not
allowing that move? It's not ambiguous, and the
lettering could be read as either one.
-mike
________________________________
From: Jason 4747 [mailto:jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 11:35 AM
To: 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason Longbow;
209Thailand Trout former.trout; 209Australia Nick Cherrier;
209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley;
Michael Sims
Cc: DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Mike,
To be fair, MSt almost equals HSt on my screen, but it is
no excuse for goegraphy stupidity on my part....
As for that and other error, kids, let it be a lesson to
you - multitasking just does not work. And just say no to
drugs.
Jason
[quote:60e743da9e]Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 18:46:41 -0800
From: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Subject: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email]); Githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]Githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email]);
former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email]);
salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email]); rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email]);
mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])
CC: stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
I didn't think I'd see days like these
either. John Lennon. P was on the road away from map but it
is I's moves which are the show. 1. Malacca Strait
clearly can't be HST so not a reading the map issue.
Hold. 2. F jak move to Cjak has no coast. Hold. 3. Only 7
moves - none for F Jav. Hold. The 1 P ret is a given but F
Jav can go many places. Mon due. Indonesian F Jav can
retreat to NIO or Bal or SlS or Slw or ETi
or WTi or CJa(nc).
Philippine F SCS can retreat to Luz.
Indonesia:
F And - Bur (*Fails*)
F TiS Supports F PHe - SIO
F Jav, no move received (*Dislodged*)
F PHe - SIO
F Jak Hold
F Med Hold
A Sab - Kuc
A Kuc - WKa
Malaysia:
F Bru Supports A Sab - Kuc
A Pah - KLu (*Fails*)
Philippines:
F NPS - ECS (*Fails*)
F SCS Supports F NPS - ECS (*Dislodged*)
F SuS Supports F Ceb - SSe
F Ara - BaS
F Ceb - SSe
A Luz - Man
F Tai Supports F SCS
Thailand:
F GTh - Tha(ec) (*Bounce*)
F MSe - Jav
F Sur Supports F MSe - Jav
F Sin Supports F MSe - Jav
F SpI - MSe
F Ked - MSt
A KBh - Tha (*Bounce*)
A KLu Supports F Sin (*Cut*)
A Bur Hold
Vietnam:
F ECS - NPS (*Fails*)
F SSe - SpI
F ViS Supports F Fuj - SCS
F Sai Supports F SpI - MSe
A HKo - Dav (*Fails*)
F Fuj - SCS
F Guz Supports F Fuj - SCS
________________________________
Windows Live(tm): Keep your life in sync. See how it
works.
<http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_022009>
[/quote:60e743da9e]
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DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD (dc209) FuzzyLogic Feb 09, 02:04 pm |
So we need to rely on a 3rd-party program, which Michael does not send out the .dpy files for, instead of using the map he does send, which does have abbreviations on it which are supposedly to be accepted? It definitely looks like HST, irrelevant of what the actual text name is.
Can you at least pls take the abbreviations off the map, if you're not going to allow the ones that are printed on it?
I guess I didnt look at the error initially, but this is silly to not accept an abbrev that's on the map that's sent out.
-mike
From: Rob Ackerley [mailto:rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:51 PM
To: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com; Former Trout; Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Cut and paste from RP Saves all the problems and is a lot less work too!
From: MICHAEL BOUTOT <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com>
To: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com>; Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com>
Cc: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com>; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 1:49:43 PM
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
1 can clearly read Malacca Strait underneath the 3 letters in dispute. That alone makes it clear. The other earlier errors had the same conflict that should have raised a white flag.
--- On Mon, 2/9/09, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: "Former Trout" <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: "Jason 4747" <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT" <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "158NewArchersJason Longbow" <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "209Australia Nick Cherrier" <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts" <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "209Vietnam Rob Ackerley" <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>, "DC101tGMStephen Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 11:24 AM
Yeah but you have to agree the map clearly looks like HST,
or certainly could be read that way. I mean if we cant rely
on the abbreviations on the map we're receiving from the
GM, then what can we rely on?
________________________________
From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:20 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason
Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob
Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley; DC101tGMStephen Lytton;
dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Personally I would allow the move as well. However, to be
fair to Michael, he identified WAY early at the beginning of
the game that he was going to be taking a strict
interpretation of the abbreviations. I almost had an order
disallowed because I didn't call the province the right
name - but luckily I included the correct abbreviation in
brackets...
Long story short, I'd say its the GMs call to make. =)
T.
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Michael Sims
<mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
MST and HST look identical in that font. Why are we not
allowing that move? It's not ambiguous, and the
lettering could be read as either one.
-mike
________________________________
From: Jason 4747 [mailto:jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 11:35 AM
To: 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason Longbow;
209Thailand Trout former.trout; 209Australia Nick Cherrier;
209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley;
Michael Sims
Cc: DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Mike,
To be fair, MSt almost equals HSt on my screen, but it is
no excuse for goegraphy stupidity on my part....
As for that and other error, kids, let it be a lesson to
you - multitasking just does not work. And just say no to
drugs.
Jason
[quote:4603e17e2c]Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 18:46:41 -0800
From: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Subject: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email]); Githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]Githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email]);
former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email]);
salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email]); rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email]);
mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])
CC: stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
I didn't think I'd see days like these
either. John Lennon. P was on the road away from map but it
is I's moves which are the show. 1. Malacca Strait
clearly can't be HST so not a reading the map issue.
Hold. 2. F jak move to Cjak has no coast. Hold. 3. Only 7
moves - none for F Jav. Hold. The 1 P ret is a given but F
Jav can go many places. Mon due. Indonesian F Jav can
retreat to NIO or Bal or SlS or Slw or ETi
or WTi or CJa(nc).
Philippine F SCS can retreat to Luz.
Indonesia:
F And - Bur (*Fails*)
F TiS Supports F PHe - SIO
F Jav, no move received (*Dislodged*)
F PHe - SIO
F Jak Hold
F Med Hold
A Sab - Kuc
A Kuc - WKa
Malaysia:
F Bru Supports A Sab - Kuc
A Pah - KLu (*Fails*)
Philippines:
F NPS - ECS (*Fails*)
F SCS Supports F NPS - ECS (*Dislodged*)
F SuS Supports F Ceb - SSe
F Ara - BaS
F Ceb - SSe
A Luz - Man
F Tai Supports F SCS
Thailand:
F GTh - Tha(ec) (*Bounce*)
F MSe - Jav
F Sur Supports F MSe - Jav
F Sin Supports F MSe - Jav
F SpI - MSe
F Ked - MSt
A KBh - Tha (*Bounce*)
A KLu Supports F Sin (*Cut*)
A Bur Hold
Vietnam:
F ECS - NPS (*Fails*)
F SSe - SpI
F ViS Supports F Fuj - SCS
F Sai Supports F SpI - MSe
A HKo - Dav (*Fails*)
F Fuj - SCS
F Guz Supports F Fuj - SCS
________________________________
Windows Live(tm): Keep your life in sync. See how it
works.
<http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_022009>
[/quote:4603e17e2c]
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DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD (dc209) roback80 Feb 09, 02:07 pm |
I was just trying to interject some humour... I am torn and we all have probably been on both sides of choices like this... Sucks yes, but part of the game and part of the duty of the GM's who graciously grant us their time to manage our games.
I jumping out of this debate now...
From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com>
To: Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca>; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com; Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com>
Cc: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 1:59:35 PM
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
So we need to rely on a 3rd-party program, which Michael does not send out the .dpy files for, instead of using the map he does send, which does have abbreviations on it which are supposedly to be accepted? It definitely looks like HST, irrelevant of what the actual text name is.
Can you at least pls take the abbreviations off the map, if you're not going to allow the ones that are printed on it?
I guess I didnt look at the error initially, but this is silly to not accept an abbrev that's on the map that's sent out.
-mike
From: Rob Ackerley [mailto:rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:51 PM
To: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com; Former Trout; Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Cut and paste from RP Saves all the problems and is a lot less work too!
From: MICHAEL BOUTOT <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com>
To: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com>; Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com>
Cc: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com>; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 1:49:43 PM
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
1 can clearly read Malacca Strait underneath the 3 letters in dispute. That alone makes it clear. The other earlier errors had the same conflict that should have raised a white flag.
--- On Mon, 2/9/09, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: "Former Trout" <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: "Jason 4747" <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT" <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "158NewArchersJason Longbow" <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "209Australia Nick Cherrier" <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts" <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "209Vietnam Rob Ackerley" <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>, "DC101tGMStephen Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 11:24 AM
Yeah but you have to agree the map clearly looks like HST,
or certainly could be read that way. I mean if we cant rely
on the abbreviations on the map we're receiving from the
GM, then what can we rely on?
________________________________
From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:20 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason
Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob
Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley; DC101tGMStephen Lytton;
dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Personally I would allow the move as well. However, to be
fair to Michael, he identified WAY early at the beginning of
the game that he was going to be taking a strict
interpretation of the abbreviations. I almost had an order
disallowed because I didn't call the province the right
name - but luckily I included the correct abbreviation in
brackets...
Long story short, I'd say its the GMs call to make. =)
T.
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Michael Sims
<mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
MST and HST look identical in that font. Why are we not
allowing that move? It's not ambiguous, and the
lettering could be read as either one.
-mike
________________________________
From: Jason 4747 [mailto:jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 11:35 AM
To: 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason Longbow;
209Thailand Trout former.trout; 209Australia Nick Cherrier;
209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley;
Michael Sims
Cc: DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Mike,
To be fair, MSt almost equals HSt on my screen, but it is
no excuse for goegraphy stupidity on my part....
As for that and other error, kids, let it be a lesson to
you - multitasking just does not work. And just say no to
drugs.
Jason
[quote:875da8a92c]Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 18:46:41 -0800
From: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Subject: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email]); Githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]Githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email]);
former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email]);
salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email]); rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email]);
mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])
CC: stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
I didn't think I'd see days like these
either. John Lennon. P was on the road away from map but it
is I's moves which are the show. 1. Malacca Strait
clearly can't be HST so not a reading the map issue.
Hold. 2. F jak move to Cjak has no coast. Hold. 3. Only 7
moves - none for F Jav. Hold. The 1 P ret is a given but F
Jav can go many places. Mon due. Indonesian F Jav can
retreat to NIO or Bal or SlS or Slw or ETi
or WTi or CJa(nc).
Philippine F SCS can retreat to Luz.
Indonesia:
F And - Bur (*Fails*)
F TiS Supports F PHe - SIO
F Jav, no move received (*Dislodged*)
F PHe - SIO
F Jak Hold
F Med Hold
A Sab - Kuc
A Kuc - WKa
Malaysia:
F Bru Supports A Sab - Kuc
A Pah - KLu (*Fails*)
Philippines:
F NPS - ECS (*Fails*)
F SCS Supports F NPS - ECS (*Dislodged*)
F SuS Supports F Ceb - SSe
F Ara - BaS
F Ceb - SSe
A Luz - Man
F Tai Supports F SCS
Thailand:
F GTh - Tha(ec) (*Bounce*)
F MSe - Jav
F Sur Supports F MSe - Jav
F Sin Supports F MSe - Jav
F SpI - MSe
F Ked - MSt
A KBh - Tha (*Bounce*)
A KLu Supports F Sin (*Cut*)
A Bur Hold
Vietnam:
F ECS - NPS (*Fails*)
F SSe - SpI
F ViS Supports F Fuj - SCS
F Sai Supports F SpI - MSe
A HKo - Dav (*Fails*)
F Fuj - SCS
F Guz Supports F Fuj - SCS
________________________________
Windows Live(tm): Keep your life in sync. See how it
works.
<http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_022009>
[/quote:875da8a92c]
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DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD (dc209) vegas_iwish Feb 09, 02:16 pm |
A warning for Hed vs Med had come before. Malaysian sea looks the exact same as far as H vs M. This late in game there is no excuse to even put forward. Looking at & reading the map there is no room for question.
--- On Mon, 2/9/09, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com> wrote:
From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com>
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: "Rob Ackerley" <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca>, vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com, "Former Trout" <former.trout(at)gmail.com>
Cc: "Jason 4747" <jason4747(at)hotmail.com>, "158NewArchersJason Longbow" <githraine(at)yahoo.com>, "209Australia Nick Cherrier" <zeclient(at)hotmail.com>, "209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts" <salexander37(at)gmail.com>, "DC101tGMStephen Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>, dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 11:59 AM
So we need to rely on a 3rd-party program, which Michael
does not send out the .dpy files for, instead of using the
map he does send, which does have abbreviations on it which
are supposedly to be accepted? It definitely looks like
HST, irrelevant of what the actual text name is.
Can you at least pls take the abbreviations off the map, if
you're not going to allow the ones that are printed on
it?
I guess I didnt look at the error initially, but this is
silly to not accept an abbrev that's on the map
that's sent out.
-mike
________________________________
From: Rob Ackerley [mailto:rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:51 PM
To: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com; Former Trout; Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia
Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts;
DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Cut and paste from RP Saves all the problems and is a
lot less work too!
________________________________
From: MICHAEL BOUTOT <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com>
To: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com>; Michael
Sims <mike(at)southwall.com>
Cc: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com>;
158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com>;
209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com>;
209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts
<salexander37(at)gmail.com>; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley
<rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton
<stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 1:49:43 PM
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
1 can clearly read Malacca Strait underneath the 3 letters
in dispute. That alone makes it clear. The other earlier
errors had the same conflict that should have raised a white
flag.
--- On Mon, 2/9/09, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com>
wrote:
[quote:6c8e327307]From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com>
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: "Former Trout"
<former.trout(at)gmail.com>
Cc: "Jason 4747"
<jason4747(at)hotmail.com>, "209GM MICHAEL
BOUTOT" <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com>,
"158NewArchersJason Longbow"
<githraine(at)yahoo.com>, "209Australia Nick
Cherrier" <zeclient(at)hotmail.com>, "209China
(tubby) Jacob Roberts" <salexander37(at)gmail.com>,
"209Vietnam Rob Ackerley"
<rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca>, "DC101tGMStephen
Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>,
dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 11:24 AM
Yeah but you have to agree the map clearly looks like
HST,
or certainly could be read that way. I mean if we
cant rely
on the abbreviations on the map we're receiving
from the
GM, then what can we rely on?
________________________________
From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:20 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT;
158NewArchersJason
Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby)
Jacob
Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley; DC101tGMStephen
Lytton;
dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Personally I would allow the move as well. However,
to be
fair to Michael, he identified WAY early at the
beginning of
the game that he was going to be taking a strict
interpretation of the abbreviations. I almost had an
order
disallowed because I didn't call the province the
right
name - but luckily I included the correct abbreviation
in
brackets...
Long story short, I'd say its the GMs call to
make. =)
T.
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Michael Sims
<mike(at)southwall.com> wrote:
MST and HST look identical in that font. Why are
we not
allowing that move? It's not ambiguous, and the
lettering could be read as either one.
-mike
________________________________
From: Jason 4747 [mailto:jason4747(at)hotmail.com]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 11:35 AM
To: 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason
Longbow;
209Thailand Trout former.trout; 209Australia Nick
Cherrier;
209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob
Ackerley;
Michael Sims
Cc: DC101tGMStephen Lytton;
dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Mike,
To be fair, MSt almost equals HSt on my screen,
but it is
no excuse for goegraphy stupidity on my part....
As for that and other error, kids, let it be a
lesson to
you - multitasking just does not work. And just say
no to
drugs.
Jason
[quote:6c8e327307]Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 18:46:41 -0800
From: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com
Subject: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: jason4747(at)hotmail.com;
[/quote:6c8e327307]Githraine(at)yahoo.com;
former.trout(at)gmail.com; zeclient(at)hotmail.com;
salexander37(at)gmail.com; rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca;
mike(at)southwall.com
[quote:6c8e327307]CC: stevelytton(at)hotmail.com;
[/quote:6c8e327307]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
[quote:6c8e327307]
I didn't think I'd see days like
[/quote:6c8e327307]these
either. John Lennon. P was on the road away from map
but it
is I's moves which are the show. 1. Malacca Strait
clearly can't be HST so not a reading the map
issue.
Hold. 2. F jak move to Cjak has no coast. Hold. 3.
Only 7
moves - none for F Jav. Hold. The 1 P ret is a given
but F
Jav can go many places. Mon due. Indonesian F Jav can
retreat to NIO or Bal or SlS or Slw or ETi
[quote:6c8e327307]or WTi or CJa(nc).
Philippine F SCS can retreat to Luz.
Indonesia:
F And - Bur (*Fails*)
F TiS Supports F PHe - SIO
F Jav, no move received (*Dislodged*)
F PHe - SIO
F Jak Hold
F Med Hold
A Sab - Kuc
A Kuc - WKa
Malaysia:
F Bru Supports A Sab - Kuc
A Pah - KLu (*Fails*)
Philippines:
F NPS - ECS (*Fails*)
F SCS Supports F NPS - ECS (*Dislodged*)
F SuS Supports F Ceb - SSe
F Ara - BaS
F Ceb - SSe
A Luz - Man
F Tai Supports F SCS
Thailand:
F GTh - Tha(ec) (*Bounce*)
F MSe - Jav
F Sur Supports F MSe - Jav
F Sin Supports F MSe - Jav
F SpI - MSe
F Ked - MSt
A KBh - Tha (*Bounce*)
A KLu Supports F Sin (*Cut*)
A Bur Hold
Vietnam:
F ECS - NPS (*Fails*)
F SSe - SpI
F ViS Supports F Fuj - SCS
F Sai Supports F SpI - MSe
A HKo - Dav (*Fails*)
F Fuj - SCS
F Guz Supports F Fuj - SCS
________________________________
Windows Live(tm): Keep your life in sync. See how
[/quote:6c8e327307]it
works.
<http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_022009>
________________________________
Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!
<http://www.flickr.com/gift/>[/quote:6c8e327307] |
DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD (dc209) former.trout Feb 09, 02:29 pm |
Its not actually a debate. Whatever our opinions are, Michael made his ruling. =)
T.
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 1:07 PM, Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])> wrote:
I was just trying to interject some humour... I am torn and we all have probably been on both sides of choices like this... Sucks yes, but part of the game and part of the duty of the GM's who graciously grant us their time to manage our games.
I jumping out of this debate now...
From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
To: Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 1:59:35 PM
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
So we need to rely on a 3rd-party program, which Michael does not send out the .dpy files for, instead of using the map he does send, which does have abbreviations on it which are supposedly to be accepted? It definitely looks like HST, irrelevant of what the actual text name is.
Can you at least pls take the abbreviations off the map, if you're not going to allow the ones that are printed on it?
I guess I didnt look at the error initially, but this is silly to not accept an abbrev that's on the map that's sent out.
-mike
From: Rob Ackerley [mailto:rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:51 PM
To: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout; Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Cut and paste from RP Saves all the problems and is a lot less work too!
From: MICHAEL BOUTOT <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
To: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Cc: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 1:49:43 PM
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
1 can clearly read Malacca Strait underneath the 3 letters in dispute. That alone makes it clear. The other earlier errors had the same conflict that should have raised a white flag.
--- On Mon, 2/9/09, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:a55c227f58]From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: "Former Trout" <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: "Jason 4747" <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT" <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "158NewArchersJason Longbow" <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "209Australia Nick Cherrier" <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts" <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "209Vietnam Rob Ackerley" <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>, "DC101tGMStephen Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 11:24 AM
Yeah but you have to agree the map clearly looks like HST,
or certainly could be read that way. I mean if we cant rely
on the abbreviations on the map we're receiving from the
GM, then what can we rely on?
________________________________
From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:20 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason
Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob
Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley; DC101tGMStephen Lytton;
dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Personally I would allow the move as well. However, to be
fair to Michael, he identified WAY early at the beginning of
the game that he was going to be taking a strict
interpretation of the abbreviations. I almost had an order
disallowed because I didn't call the province the right
name - but luckily I included the correct abbreviation in
brackets...
Long story short, I'd say its the GMs call to make. =)
T.
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Michael Sims
<mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
MST and HST look identical in that font. Why are we not
allowing that move? It's not ambiguous, and the
lettering could be read as either one.
-mike
________________________________
From: Jason 4747 [mailto:jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 11:35 AM
To: 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason Longbow;
209Thailand Trout former.trout; 209Australia Nick Cherrier;
209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley;
Michael Sims
Cc: DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Mike,
To be fair, MSt almost equals HSt on my screen, but it is
no excuse for goegraphy stupidity on my part....
As for that and other error, kids, let it be a lesson to
you - multitasking just does not work. And just say no to
drugs.
Jason
[quote:a55c227f58]Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 18:46:41 -0800
From: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Subject: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email]); Githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]Githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email]);
former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email]);
salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email]); rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email]);
mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])
CC: stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
I didn't think I'd see days like these
either. John Lennon. P was on the road away from map but it
is I's moves which are the show. 1. Malacca Strait
clearly can't be HST so not a reading the map issue.
Hold. 2. F jak move to Cjak has no coast. Hold. 3. Only 7
moves - none for F Jav. Hold. The 1 P ret is a given but F
Jav can go many places. Mon due. Indonesian F Jav can
retreat to NIO or Bal or SlS or Slw or ETi
or WTi or CJa(nc).
Philippine F SCS can retreat to Luz.
Indonesia:
F And - Bur (*Fails*)
F TiS Supports F PHe - SIO
F Jav, no move received (*Dislodged*)
F PHe - SIO
F Jak Hold
F Med Hold
A Sab - Kuc
A Kuc - WKa
Malaysia:
F Bru Supports A Sab - Kuc
A Pah - KLu (*Fails*)
Philippines:
F NPS - ECS (*Fails*)
F SCS Supports F NPS - ECS (*Dislodged*)
F SuS Supports F Ceb - SSe
F Ara - BaS
F Ceb - SSe
A Luz - Man
F Tai Supports F SCS
Thailand:
F GTh - Tha(ec) (*Bounce*)
F MSe - Jav
F Sur Supports F MSe - Jav
F Sin Supports F MSe - Jav
F SpI - MSe
F Ked - MSt
A KBh - Tha (*Bounce*)
A KLu Supports F Sin (*Cut*)
A Bur Hold
Vietnam:
F ECS - NPS (*Fails*)
F SSe - SpI
F ViS Supports F Fuj - SCS
F Sai Supports F SpI - MSe
A HKo - Dav (*Fails*)
F Fuj - SCS
F Guz Supports F Fuj - SCS
________________________________
Windows Live(tm): Keep your life in sync. See how it
works.
<http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_022009>
[/quote:a55c227f58]
Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!
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[/quote:a55c227f58] |
DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD (dc209) FuzzyLogic Feb 09, 02:31 pm |
I know you were, and it was amusing, and it does exemplify the fact that using an unrelated 3rd party app we'd be correct, but using the maps our gm sends out, we'd get misorders. (it was also nice to get an email from you Rob, I think this conversation has resulted in us doubling our total communique in this game thus far! :-p)
From: Rob Ackerley [mailto:rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 2:07 PM
To: Michael Sims; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com; Former Trout
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
I was just trying to interject some humour... I am torn and we all have probably been on both sides of choices like this... Sucks yes, but part of the game and part of the duty of the GM's who graciously grant us their time to manage our games.
I jumping out of this debate now...
From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com>
To: Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca>; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com; Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com>
Cc: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 1:59:35 PM
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
So we need to rely on a 3rd-party program, which Michael does not send out the .dpy files for, instead of using the map he does send, which does have abbreviations on it which are supposedly to be accepted? It definitely looks like HST, irrelevant of what the actual text name is.
Can you at least pls take the abbreviations off the map, if you're not going to allow the ones that are printed on it?
I guess I didnt look at the error initially, but this is silly to not accept an abbrev that's on the map that's sent out.
-mike
From: Rob Ackerley [mailto:rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:51 PM
To: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com; Former Trout; Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Cut and paste from RP Saves all the problems and is a lot less work too!
From: MICHAEL BOUTOT <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com>
To: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com>; Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com>
Cc: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com>; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 1:49:43 PM
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
1 can clearly read Malacca Strait underneath the 3 letters in dispute. That alone makes it clear. The other earlier errors had the same conflict that should have raised a white flag.
--- On Mon, 2/9/09, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: "Former Trout" <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: "Jason 4747" <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT" <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "158NewArchersJason Longbow" <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "209Australia Nick Cherrier" <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts" <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "209Vietnam Rob Ackerley" <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>, "DC101tGMStephen Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 11:24 AM
Yeah but you have to agree the map clearly looks like HST,
or certainly could be read that way. I mean if we cant rely
on the abbreviations on the map we're receiving from the
GM, then what can we rely on?
________________________________
From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:20 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason
Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob
Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley; DC101tGMStephen Lytton;
dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Personally I would allow the move as well. However, to be
fair to Michael, he identified WAY early at the beginning of
the game that he was going to be taking a strict
interpretation of the abbreviations. I almost had an order
disallowed because I didn't call the province the right
name - but luckily I included the correct abbreviation in
brackets...
Long story short, I'd say its the GMs call to make. =)
T.
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Michael Sims
<mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
MST and HST look identical in that font. Why are we not
allowing that move? It's not ambiguous, and the
lettering could be read as either one.
-mike
________________________________
From: Jason 4747 [mailto:jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 11:35 AM
To: 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason Longbow;
209Thailand Trout former.trout; 209Australia Nick Cherrier;
209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley;
Michael Sims
Cc: DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Mike,
To be fair, MSt almost equals HSt on my screen, but it is
no excuse for goegraphy stupidity on my part....
As for that and other error, kids, let it be a lesson to
you - multitasking just does not work. And just say no to
drugs.
Jason
[quote:cebe04216c]Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 18:46:41 -0800
From: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Subject: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email]); Githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]Githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email]);
former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email]);
salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email]); rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email]);
mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])
CC: stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
I didn't think I'd see days like these
either. John Lennon. P was on the road away from map but it
is I's moves which are the show. 1. Malacca Strait
clearly can't be HST so not a reading the map issue.
Hold. 2. F jak move to Cjak has no coast. Hold. 3. Only 7
moves - none for F Jav. Hold. The 1 P ret is a given but F
Jav can go many places. Mon due. Indonesian F Jav can
retreat to NIO or Bal or SlS or Slw or ETi
or WTi or CJa(nc).
Philippine F SCS can retreat to Luz.
Indonesia:
F And - Bur (*Fails*)
F TiS Supports F PHe - SIO
F Jav, no move received (*Dislodged*)
F PHe - SIO
F Jak Hold
F Med Hold
A Sab - Kuc
A Kuc - WKa
Malaysia:
F Bru Supports A Sab - Kuc
A Pah - KLu (*Fails*)
Philippines:
F NPS - ECS (*Fails*)
F SCS Supports F NPS - ECS (*Dislodged*)
F SuS Supports F Ceb - SSe
F Ara - BaS
F Ceb - SSe
A Luz - Man
F Tai Supports F SCS
Thailand:
F GTh - Tha(ec) (*Bounce*)
F MSe - Jav
F Sur Supports F MSe - Jav
F Sin Supports F MSe - Jav
F SpI - MSe
F Ked - MSt
A KBh - Tha (*Bounce*)
A KLu Supports F Sin (*Cut*)
A Bur Hold
Vietnam:
F ECS - NPS (*Fails*)
F SSe - SpI
F ViS Supports F Fuj - SCS
F Sai Supports F SpI - MSe
A HKo - Dav (*Fails*)
F Fuj - SCS
F Guz Supports F Fuj - SCS
________________________________
Windows Live(tm): Keep your life in sync. See how it
works.
<http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_022009>
[/quote:cebe04216c]
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DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD (dc209) former.trout Feb 09, 03:02 pm |
I don't know if I buy that argument. I used the same map that the GM sent out and ordered to the same spot. Somehow I managed to get the correct abbreviation...
What exactly is the point of all of this, Mike? Again - I don't know if I agree with the call made by the GM, but it is definitely HIS call to make...
T.
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 1:28 PM, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
I know you were, and it was amusing, and it does exemplify the fact that using an unrelated 3rd party app we'd be correct, but using the maps our gm sends out, we'd get misorders. (it was also nice to get an email from you Rob, I think this conversation has resulted in us doubling our total communique in this game thus far! :-p)
From: Rob Ackerley [mailto:rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 2:07 PM
To: Michael Sims; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
I was just trying to interject some humour... I am torn and we all have probably been on both sides of choices like this... Sucks yes, but part of the game and part of the duty of the GM's who graciously grant us their time to manage our games.
I jumping out of this debate now...
From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
To: Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 1:59:35 PM
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
So we need to rely on a 3rd-party program, which Michael does not send out the .dpy files for, instead of using the map he does send, which does have abbreviations on it which are supposedly to be accepted? It definitely looks like HST, irrelevant of what the actual text name is.
Can you at least pls take the abbreviations off the map, if you're not going to allow the ones that are printed on it?
I guess I didnt look at the error initially, but this is silly to not accept an abbrev that's on the map that's sent out.
-mike
From: Rob Ackerley [mailto:rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:51 PM
To: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout; Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Cut and paste from RP Saves all the problems and is a lot less work too!
From: MICHAEL BOUTOT <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
To: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Cc: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 1:49:43 PM
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
1 can clearly read Malacca Strait underneath the 3 letters in dispute. That alone makes it clear. The other earlier errors had the same conflict that should have raised a white flag.
--- On Mon, 2/9/09, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:f6b157ea3e]From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: "Former Trout" <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: "Jason 4747" <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT" <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "158NewArchersJason Longbow" <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "209Australia Nick Cherrier" <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts" <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "209Vietnam Rob Ackerley" <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>, "DC101tGMStephen Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 11:24 AM
Yeah but you have to agree the map clearly looks like HST,
or certainly could be read that way. I mean if we cant rely
on the abbreviations on the map we're receiving from the
GM, then what can we rely on?
________________________________
From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:20 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason
Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob
Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley; DC101tGMStephen Lytton;
dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Personally I would allow the move as well. However, to be
fair to Michael, he identified WAY early at the beginning of
the game that he was going to be taking a strict
interpretation of the abbreviations. I almost had an order
disallowed because I didn't call the province the right
name - but luckily I included the correct abbreviation in
brackets...
Long story short, I'd say its the GMs call to make. =)
T.
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Michael Sims
<mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
MST and HST look identical in that font. Why are we not
allowing that move? It's not ambiguous, and the
lettering could be read as either one.
-mike
________________________________
From: Jason 4747 [mailto:jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 11:35 AM
To: 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason Longbow;
209Thailand Trout former.trout; 209Australia Nick Cherrier;
209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley;
Michael Sims
Cc: DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Mike,
To be fair, MSt almost equals HSt on my screen, but it is
no excuse for goegraphy stupidity on my part....
As for that and other error, kids, let it be a lesson to
you - multitasking just does not work. And just say no to
drugs.
Jason
[quote:f6b157ea3e]Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 18:46:41 -0800
From: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Subject: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email]); Githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]Githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email]);
former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email]);
salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email]); rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email]);
mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])
CC: stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
I didn't think I'd see days like these
either. John Lennon. P was on the road away from map but it
is I's moves which are the show. 1. Malacca Strait
clearly can't be HST so not a reading the map issue.
Hold. 2. F jak move to Cjak has no coast. Hold. 3. Only 7
moves - none for F Jav. Hold. The 1 P ret is a given but F
Jav can go many places. Mon due. Indonesian F Jav can
retreat to NIO or Bal or SlS or Slw or ETi
or WTi or CJa(nc).
Philippine F SCS can retreat to Luz.
Indonesia:
F And - Bur (*Fails*)
F TiS Supports F PHe - SIO
F Jav, no move received (*Dislodged*)
F PHe - SIO
F Jak Hold
F Med Hold
A Sab - Kuc
A Kuc - WKa
Malaysia:
F Bru Supports A Sab - Kuc
A Pah - KLu (*Fails*)
Philippines:
F NPS - ECS (*Fails*)
F SCS Supports F NPS - ECS (*Dislodged*)
F SuS Supports F Ceb - SSe
F Ara - BaS
F Ceb - SSe
A Luz - Man
F Tai Supports F SCS
Thailand:
F GTh - Tha(ec) (*Bounce*)
F MSe - Jav
F Sur Supports F MSe - Jav
F Sin Supports F MSe - Jav
F SpI - MSe
F Ked - MSt
A KBh - Tha (*Bounce*)
A KLu Supports F Sin (*Cut*)
A Bur Hold
Vietnam:
F ECS - NPS (*Fails*)
F SSe - SpI
F ViS Supports F Fuj - SCS
F Sai Supports F SpI - MSe
A HKo - Dav (*Fails*)
F Fuj - SCS
F Guz Supports F Fuj - SCS
________________________________
Windows Live(tm): Keep your life in sync. See how it
works.
<http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_022009>
[/quote:f6b157ea3e]
Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!
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[/quote:f6b157ea3e] |
DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD (dc209) FuzzyLogic Feb 09, 03:12 pm |
Point? That a player wrote an order, using the letters printed on the map, which as best I can tell by actually looking at the map the M and the H are indistinguishable, yet it was misordered. The order was not ambiguous - if there was another space nearby that was HST, then MST and HST need to be different. But given that's how it's labeled, I see no reason not to accept it. But I guess there's no point, and it's in your best interest to see to it that nothing is changed, but I did want to voice that it was a challengeable ruling, and so I challenged it. Er seconded Jason's challenge rather. Am I not entitled to challenge a ruling? Michael has made his statement, doesnt mean I cant point out that a player used the abbreviation printed on the map, and that was misordered cuz apparently we're supposed to make up our own abbreviation based on the textual wording which only exists on some of the provinces. Because you did get it right, I'll give you a pat on the back for that. I never suggested invalidating your order.
From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 3:01 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Rob Ackerley; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com; Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
I don't know if I buy that argument. I used the same map that the GM sent out and ordered to the same spot. Somehow I managed to get the correct abbreviation...
What exactly is the point of all of this, Mike? Again - I don't know if I agree with the call made by the GM, but it is definitely HIS call to make...
T.
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 1:28 PM, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
I know you were, and it was amusing, and it does exemplify the fact that using an unrelated 3rd party app we'd be correct, but using the maps our gm sends out, we'd get misorders. (it was also nice to get an email from you Rob, I think this conversation has resulted in us doubling our total communique in this game thus far! :-p)
From: Rob Ackerley [mailto:rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 2:07 PM
To: Michael Sims; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
I was just trying to interject some humour... I am torn and we all have probably been on both sides of choices like this... Sucks yes, but part of the game and part of the duty of the GM's who graciously grant us their time to manage our games.
I jumping out of this debate now...
From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
To: Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 1:59:35 PM
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
So we need to rely on a 3rd-party program, which Michael does not send out the .dpy files for, instead of using the map he does send, which does have abbreviations on it which are supposedly to be accepted? It definitely looks like HST, irrelevant of what the actual text name is.
Can you at least pls take the abbreviations off the map, if you're not going to allow the ones that are printed on it?
I guess I didnt look at the error initially, but this is silly to not accept an abbrev that's on the map that's sent out.
-mike
From: Rob Ackerley [mailto:rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:51 PM
To: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout; Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Cut and paste from RP Saves all the problems and is a lot less work too!
From: MICHAEL BOUTOT <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
To: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Cc: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 1:49:43 PM
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
1 can clearly read Malacca Strait underneath the 3 letters in dispute. That alone makes it clear. The other earlier errors had the same conflict that should have raised a white flag.
--- On Mon, 2/9/09, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:4f6bf6e59e]From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: "Former Trout" <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: "Jason 4747" <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT" <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "158NewArchersJason Longbow" <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "209Australia Nick Cherrier" <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts" <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "209Vietnam Rob Ackerley" <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>, "DC101tGMStephen Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 11:24 AM
Yeah but you have to agree the map clearly looks like HST,
or certainly could be read that way. I mean if we cant rely
on the abbreviations on the map we're receiving from the
GM, then what can we rely on?
________________________________
From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:20 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason
Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob
Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley; DC101tGMStephen Lytton;
dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Personally I would allow the move as well. However, to be
fair to Michael, he identified WAY early at the beginning of
the game that he was going to be taking a strict
interpretation of the abbreviations. I almost had an order
disallowed because I didn't call the province the right
name - but luckily I included the correct abbreviation in
brackets...
Long story short, I'd say its the GMs call to make. =)
T.
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Michael Sims
<mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
MST and HST look identical in that font. Why are we not
allowing that move? It's not ambiguous, and the
lettering could be read as either one.
-mike
________________________________
From: Jason 4747 [mailto:jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 11:35 AM
To: 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason Longbow;
209Thailand Trout former.trout; 209Australia Nick Cherrier;
209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley;
Michael Sims
Cc: DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Mike,
To be fair, MSt almost equals HSt on my screen, but it is
no excuse for goegraphy stupidity on my part....
As for that and other error, kids, let it be a lesson to
you - multitasking just does not work. And just say no to
drugs.
Jason
[quote:4f6bf6e59e]Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 18:46:41 -0800
From: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Subject: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email]); Githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]Githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email]);
former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email]);
salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email]); rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email]);
mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])
CC: stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
I didn't think I'd see days like these
either. John Lennon. P was on the road away from map but it
is I's moves which are the show. 1. Malacca Strait
clearly can't be HST so not a reading the map issue.
Hold. 2. F jak move to Cjak has no coast. Hold. 3. Only 7
moves - none for F Jav. Hold. The 1 P ret is a given but F
Jav can go many places. Mon due. Indonesian F Jav can
retreat to NIO or Bal or SlS or Slw or ETi
or WTi or CJa(nc).
Philippine F SCS can retreat to Luz.
Indonesia:
F And - Bur (*Fails*)
F TiS Supports F PHe - SIO
F Jav, no move received (*Dislodged*)
F PHe - SIO
F Jak Hold
F Med Hold
A Sab - Kuc
A Kuc - WKa
Malaysia:
F Bru Supports A Sab - Kuc
A Pah - KLu (*Fails*)
Philippines:
F NPS - ECS (*Fails*)
F SCS Supports F NPS - ECS (*Dislodged*)
F SuS Supports F Ceb - SSe
F Ara - BaS
F Ceb - SSe
A Luz - Man
F Tai Supports F SCS
Thailand:
F GTh - Tha(ec) (*Bounce*)
F MSe - Jav
F Sur Supports F MSe - Jav
F Sin Supports F MSe - Jav
F SpI - MSe
F Ked - MSt
A KBh - Tha (*Bounce*)
A KLu Supports F Sin (*Cut*)
A Bur Hold
Vietnam:
F ECS - NPS (*Fails*)
F SSe - SpI
F ViS Supports F Fuj - SCS
F Sai Supports F SpI - MSe
A HKo - Dav (*Fails*)
F Fuj - SCS
F Guz Supports F Fuj - SCS
________________________________
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DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD (dc209) former.trout Feb 09, 03:35 pm |
I'll ignore the inflammatory stuff in this email and just focus on the pertinent detail.
Michael uses the default DC house rules, according to the game page. Point 4 of those HRs - (which YOU helped write might I add) state:
As always in all DC games, the GM of the game has the final say and final decision on all matters relating to the game, whether they are covered in the rules or not
What I think of the decision, or what you think of the decision is frankly irrelevent. Michael made the call, based on player questions reconsidered it, and then kept with the original ruling.
For the record, I would have had no problem bouncing in MST if Michael had reversed his decision. BUT - I DO have a problem with a player attempting to loudly pressure the GM into doing so. Especially when that player knows better.
Trout
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 2:11 PM, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
Point? That a player wrote an order, using the letters printed on the map, which as best I can tell by actually looking at the map the M and the H are indistinguishable, yet it was misordered. The order was not ambiguous - if there was another space nearby that was HST, then MST and HST need to be different. But given that's how it's labeled, I see no reason not to accept it. But I guess there's no point, and it's in your best interest to see to it that nothing is changed, but I did want to voice that it was a challengeable ruling, and so I challenged it. Er seconded Jason's challenge rather. Am I not entitled to challenge a ruling? Michael has made his statement, doesnt mean I cant point out that a player used the abbreviation printed on the map, and that was misordered cuz apparently we're supposed to make up our own abbreviation based on the textual wording which only exists on some of the provinces. Because you did get it right, I'll give you a pat on the back for that. I never suggested invalidating your order.
From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 3:01 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Rob Ackerley; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
I don't know if I buy that argument. I used the same map that the GM sent out and ordered to the same spot. Somehow I managed to get the correct abbreviation...
What exactly is the point of all of this, Mike? Again - I don't know if I agree with the call made by the GM, but it is definitely HIS call to make...
T.
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 1:28 PM, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:f8412ebb61] I know you were, and it was amusing, and it does exemplify the fact that using an unrelated 3rd party app we'd be correct, but using the maps our gm sends out, we'd get misorders. (it was also nice to get an email from you Rob, I think this conversation has resulted in us doubling our total communique in this game thus far! :-p)
From: Rob Ackerley [mailto:rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 2:07 PM
To: Michael Sims; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
I was just trying to interject some humour... I am torn and we all have probably been on both sides of choices like this... Sucks yes, but part of the game and part of the duty of the GM's who graciously grant us their time to manage our games.
I jumping out of this debate now...
From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
To: Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 1:59:35 PM
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
So we need to rely on a 3rd-party program, which Michael does not send out the .dpy files for, instead of using the map he does send, which does have abbreviations on it which are supposedly to be accepted? It definitely looks like HST, irrelevant of what the actual text name is.
Can you at least pls take the abbreviations off the map, if you're not going to allow the ones that are printed on it?
I guess I didnt look at the error initially, but this is silly to not accept an abbrev that's on the map that's sent out.
-mike
From: Rob Ackerley [mailto:rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:51 PM
To: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout; Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Cut and paste from RP Saves all the problems and is a lot less work too!
From: MICHAEL BOUTOT <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
To: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Cc: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 1:49:43 PM
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
1 can clearly read Malacca Strait underneath the 3 letters in dispute. That alone makes it clear. The other earlier errors had the same conflict that should have raised a white flag.
--- On Mon, 2/9/09, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:f8412ebb61]From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: "Former Trout" <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: "Jason 4747" <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT" <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "158NewArchersJason Longbow" <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "209Australia Nick Cherrier" <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts" <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "209Vietnam Rob Ackerley" <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>, "DC101tGMStephen Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 11:24 AM
Yeah but you have to agree the map clearly looks like HST,
or certainly could be read that way. I mean if we cant rely
on the abbreviations on the map we're receiving from the
GM, then what can we rely on?
________________________________
From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:20 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason
Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob
Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley; DC101tGMStephen Lytton;
dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Personally I would allow the move as well. However, to be
fair to Michael, he identified WAY early at the beginning of
the game that he was going to be taking a strict
interpretation of the abbreviations. I almost had an order
disallowed because I didn't call the province the right
name - but luckily I included the correct abbreviation in
brackets...
Long story short, I'd say its the GMs call to make. =)
T.
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Michael Sims
<mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
MST and HST look identical in that font. Why are we not
allowing that move? It's not ambiguous, and the
lettering could be read as either one.
-mike
________________________________
From: Jason 4747 [mailto:jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 11:35 AM
To: 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason Longbow;
209Thailand Trout former.trout; 209Australia Nick Cherrier;
209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley;
Michael Sims
Cc: DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Mike,
To be fair, MSt almost equals HSt on my screen, but it is
no excuse for goegraphy stupidity on my part....
As for that and other error, kids, let it be a lesson to
you - multitasking just does not work. And just say no to
drugs.
Jason
[quote:f8412ebb61]Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 18:46:41 -0800
From: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Subject: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email]); Githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]Githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email]);
former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email]);
salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email]); rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email]);
mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])
CC: stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
I didn't think I'd see days like these
either. John Lennon. P was on the road away from map but it
is I's moves which are the show. 1. Malacca Strait
clearly can't be HST so not a reading the map issue.
Hold. 2. F jak move to Cjak has no coast. Hold. 3. Only 7
moves - none for F Jav. Hold. The 1 P ret is a given but F
Jav can go many places. Mon due. Indonesian F Jav can
retreat to NIO or Bal or SlS or Slw or ETi
or WTi or CJa(nc).
Philippine F SCS can retreat to Luz.
Indonesia:
F And - Bur (*Fails*)
F TiS Supports F PHe - SIO
F Jav, no move received (*Dislodged*)
F PHe - SIO
F Jak Hold
F Med Hold
A Sab - Kuc
A Kuc - WKa
Malaysia:
F Bru Supports A Sab - Kuc
A Pah - KLu (*Fails*)
Philippines:
F NPS - ECS (*Fails*)
F SCS Supports F NPS - ECS (*Dislodged*)
F SuS Supports F Ceb - SSe
F Ara - BaS
F Ceb - SSe
A Luz - Man
F Tai Supports F SCS
Thailand:
F GTh - Tha(ec) (*Bounce*)
F MSe - Jav
F Sur Supports F MSe - Jav
F Sin Supports F MSe - Jav
F SpI - MSe
F Ked - MSt
A KBh - Tha (*Bounce*)
A KLu Supports F Sin (*Cut*)
A Bur Hold
Vietnam:
F ECS - NPS (*Fails*)
F SSe - SpI
F ViS Supports F Fuj - SCS
F Sai Supports F SpI - MSe
A HKo - Dav (*Fails*)
F Fuj - SCS
F Guz Supports F Fuj - SCS
________________________________
Windows Live(tm): Keep your life in sync. See how it
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[/quote:f8412ebb61]
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DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD (dc209) FuzzyLogic Feb 09, 03:47 pm |
Are you serious??
The rule ALSO says:
The GM will accept all reasonable abbreviations. However if an order is unclear and not clarified by the deadline, the order will be declared void and the unit will hold. Abbreviations that could be applied to more than one space on the map (such as NOR and LIV) should be avoided. EG Lvp or Liverpool for Liverpool and Lvn or Livonia or Livonia.
"The GM will accept all reasonable abbreviations". That is blatantly clear!
Is this a "reasonable abbreviation"? Well it's on the map, it looks like HST to me. I would say it counts as "reasonable", as in it can be reasoned that that space would be HST by the writing on the map.
Is the order unclear? Well could HST be anything else on the map? Let's look at the map. Nope... there it is. Right there, one space. Even labeled HST (or is it MST? I cant tell)
If you're going to suggest we follow the rules, then I think there is absolutely no grounded case to say HST should fail!
I am not trying to pressure anyone. Tho you seem to think we should not even discuss it like gentlemen. Other players were even joking about it. I would say there is no pressure, just bewilderment as to why the above rule is not being applied, when it seems very appropriate that HST is not ambiguous, can not be mistaken for anywhere else, and it's LABELED ON THE MAP as such, in such a bad font, that one cant possibly tell if it's HST or MST. And the rules of the game clearly state The GM will accept all reasonable abbreviations. So it fails???
Come on Trout you usually stand up for following the rules... this is a weird position for you to take.
-mike
From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 3:34 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Rob Ackerley; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com; Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
I'll ignore the inflammatory stuff in this email and just focus on the pertinent detail.
Michael uses the default DC house rules, according to the game page. Point 4 of those HRs - (which YOU helped write might I add) state:
As always in all DC games, the GM of the game has the final say and final decision on all matters relating to the game, whether they are covered in the rules or not
What I think of the decision, or what you think of the decision is frankly irrelevent. Michael made the call, based on player questions reconsidered it, and then kept with the original ruling.
For the record, I would have had no problem bouncing in MST if Michael had reversed his decision. BUT - I DO have a problem with a player attempting to loudly pressure the GM into doing so. Especially when that player knows better.
Trout
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 2:11 PM, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
Point? That a player wrote an order, using the letters printed on the map, which as best I can tell by actually looking at the map the M and the H are indistinguishable, yet it was misordered. The order was not ambiguous - if there was another space nearby that was HST, then MST and HST need to be different. But given that's how it's labeled, I see no reason not to accept it. But I guess there's no point, and it's in your best interest to see to it that nothing is changed, but I did want to voice that it was a challengeable ruling, and so I challenged it. Er seconded Jason's challenge rather. Am I not entitled to challenge a ruling? Michael has made his statement, doesnt mean I cant point out that a player used the abbreviation printed on the map, and that was misordered cuz apparently we're supposed to make up our own abbreviation based on the textual wording which only exists on some of the provinces. Because you did get it right, I'll give you a pat on the back for that. I never suggested invalidating your order.
From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 3:01 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Rob Ackerley; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
I don't know if I buy that argument. I used the same map that the GM sent out and ordered to the same spot. Somehow I managed to get the correct abbreviation...
What exactly is the point of all of this, Mike? Again - I don't know if I agree with the call made by the GM, but it is definitely HIS call to make...
T.
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 1:28 PM, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:b67ee9c41f] I know you were, and it was amusing, and it does exemplify the fact that using an unrelated 3rd party app we'd be correct, but using the maps our gm sends out, we'd get misorders. (it was also nice to get an email from you Rob, I think this conversation has resulted in us doubling our total communique in this game thus far! :-p)
From: Rob Ackerley [mailto:rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 2:07 PM
To: Michael Sims; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
I was just trying to interject some humour... I am torn and we all have probably been on both sides of choices like this... Sucks yes, but part of the game and part of the duty of the GM's who graciously grant us their time to manage our games.
I jumping out of this debate now...
From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
To: Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 1:59:35 PM
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
So we need to rely on a 3rd-party program, which Michael does not send out the .dpy files for, instead of using the map he does send, which does have abbreviations on it which are supposedly to be accepted? It definitely looks like HST, irrelevant of what the actual text name is.
Can you at least pls take the abbreviations off the map, if you're not going to allow the ones that are printed on it?
I guess I didnt look at the error initially, but this is silly to not accept an abbrev that's on the map that's sent out.
-mike
From: Rob Ackerley [mailto:rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:51 PM
To: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout; Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Cut and paste from RP Saves all the problems and is a lot less work too!
From: MICHAEL BOUTOT <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
To: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Cc: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 1:49:43 PM
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
1 can clearly read Malacca Strait underneath the 3 letters in dispute. That alone makes it clear. The other earlier errors had the same conflict that should have raised a white flag.
--- On Mon, 2/9/09, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:b67ee9c41f]From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: "Former Trout" <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: "Jason 4747" <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT" <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "158NewArchersJason Longbow" <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "209Australia Nick Cherrier" <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts" <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "209Vietnam Rob Ackerley" <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>, "DC101tGMStephen Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 11:24 AM
Yeah but you have to agree the map clearly looks like HST,
or certainly could be read that way. I mean if we cant rely
on the abbreviations on the map we're receiving from the
GM, then what can we rely on?
________________________________
From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:20 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason
Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob
Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley; DC101tGMStephen Lytton;
dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Personally I would allow the move as well. However, to be
fair to Michael, he identified WAY early at the beginning of
the game that he was going to be taking a strict
interpretation of the abbreviations. I almost had an order
disallowed because I didn't call the province the right
name - but luckily I included the correct abbreviation in
brackets...
Long story short, I'd say its the GMs call to make. =)
T.
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Michael Sims
<mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
MST and HST look identical in that font. Why are we not
allowing that move? It's not ambiguous, and the
lettering could be read as either one.
-mike
________________________________
From: Jason 4747 [mailto:jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 11:35 AM
To: 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason Longbow;
209Thailand Trout former.trout; 209Australia Nick Cherrier;
209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley;
Michael Sims
Cc: DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Mike,
To be fair, MSt almost equals HSt on my screen, but it is
no excuse for goegraphy stupidity on my part....
As for that and other error, kids, let it be a lesson to
you - multitasking just does not work. And just say no to
drugs.
Jason
[quote:b67ee9c41f]Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 18:46:41 -0800
From: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Subject: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email]); Githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]Githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email]);
former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email]);
salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email]); rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email]);
mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])
CC: stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
I didn't think I'd see days like these
either. John Lennon. P was on the road away from map but it
is I's moves which are the show. 1. Malacca Strait
clearly can't be HST so not a reading the map issue.
Hold. 2. F jak move to Cjak has no coast. Hold. 3. Only 7
moves - none for F Jav. Hold. The 1 P ret is a given but F
Jav can go many places. Mon due. Indonesian F Jav can
retreat to NIO or Bal or SlS or Slw or ETi
or WTi or CJa(nc).
Philippine F SCS can retreat to Luz.
Indonesia:
F And - Bur (*Fails*)
F TiS Supports F PHe - SIO
F Jav, no move received (*Dislodged*)
F PHe - SIO
F Jak Hold
F Med Hold
A Sab - Kuc
A Kuc - WKa
Malaysia:
F Bru Supports A Sab - Kuc
A Pah - KLu (*Fails*)
Philippines:
F NPS - ECS (*Fails*)
F SCS Supports F NPS - ECS (*Dislodged*)
F SuS Supports F Ceb - SSe
F Ara - BaS
F Ceb - SSe
A Luz - Man
F Tai Supports F SCS
Thailand:
F GTh - Tha(ec) (*Bounce*)
F MSe - Jav
F Sur Supports F MSe - Jav
F Sin Supports F MSe - Jav
F SpI - MSe
F Ked - MSt
A KBh - Tha (*Bounce*)
A KLu Supports F Sin (*Cut*)
A Bur Hold
Vietnam:
F ECS - NPS (*Fails*)
F SSe - SpI
F ViS Supports F Fuj - SCS
F Sai Supports F SpI - MSe
A HKo - Dav (*Fails*)
F Fuj - SCS
F Guz Supports F Fuj - SCS
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DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD (dc209) former.trout Feb 09, 04:08 pm |
What is 'reasonable' is defined by the GM. Not just in this game, but in any PBEM game. Obviously in this case, Michael (the GM) feels differently about it then you do.
Anyways, I apologize to my fellow players for the public argument. I'll just shut up now. =P
Trout
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 2:46 PM, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
Are you serious??
The rule ALSO says:
The GM will accept all reasonable abbreviations. However if an order is unclear and not clarified by the deadline, the order will be declared void and the unit will hold. Abbreviations that could be applied to more than one space on the map (such as NOR and LIV) should be avoided. EG Lvp or Liverpool for Liverpool and Lvn or Livonia or Livonia.
"The GM will accept all reasonable abbreviations". That is blatantly clear!
Is this a "reasonable abbreviation"? Well it's on the map, it looks like HST to me. I would say it counts as "reasonable", as in it can be reasoned that that space would be HST by the writing on the map.
Is the order unclear? Well could HST be anything else on the map? Let's look at the map. Nope... there it is. Right there, one space. Even labeled HST (or is it MST? I cant tell)
If you're going to suggest we follow the rules, then I think there is absolutely no grounded case to say HST should fail!
I am not trying to pressure anyone. Tho you seem to think we should not even discuss it like gentlemen. Other players were even joking about it. I would say there is no pressure, just bewilderment as to why the above rule is not being applied, when it seems very appropriate that HST is not ambiguous, can not be mistaken for anywhere else, and it's LABELED ON THE MAP as such, in such a bad font, that one cant possibly tell if it's HST or MST. And the rules of the game clearly state The GM will accept all reasonable abbreviations. So it fails???
Come on Trout you usually stand up for following the rules... this is a weird position for you to take.
-mike
From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 3:34 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Rob Ackerley; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
I'll ignore the inflammatory stuff in this email and just focus on the pertinent detail.
Michael uses the default DC house rules, according to the game page. Point 4 of those HRs - (which YOU helped write might I add) state:
As always in all DC games, the GM of the game has the final say and final decision on all matters relating to the game, whether they are covered in the rules or not
What I think of the decision, or what you think of the decision is frankly irrelevent. Michael made the call, based on player questions reconsidered it, and then kept with the original ruling.
For the record, I would have had no problem bouncing in MST if Michael had reversed his decision. BUT - I DO have a problem with a player attempting to loudly pressure the GM into doing so. Especially when that player knows better.
Trout
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 2:11 PM, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:95b76770da] Point? That a player wrote an order, using the letters printed on the map, which as best I can tell by actually looking at the map the M and the H are indistinguishable, yet it was misordered. The order was not ambiguous - if there was another space nearby that was HST, then MST and HST need to be different. But given that's how it's labeled, I see no reason not to accept it. But I guess there's no point, and it's in your best interest to see to it that nothing is changed, but I did want to voice that it was a challengeable ruling, and so I challenged it. Er seconded Jason's challenge rather. Am I not entitled to challenge a ruling? Michael has made his statement, doesnt mean I cant point out that a player used the abbreviation printed on the map, and that was misordered cuz apparently we're supposed to make up our own abbreviation based on the textual wording which only exists on some of the provinces. Because you did get it right, I'll give you a pat on the back for that. I never suggested invalidating your order.
From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 3:01 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Rob Ackerley; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
I don't know if I buy that argument. I used the same map that the GM sent out and ordered to the same spot. Somehow I managed to get the correct abbreviation...
What exactly is the point of all of this, Mike? Again - I don't know if I agree with the call made by the GM, but it is definitely HIS call to make...
T.
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 1:28 PM, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:95b76770da] I know you were, and it was amusing, and it does exemplify the fact that using an unrelated 3rd party app we'd be correct, but using the maps our gm sends out, we'd get misorders. (it was also nice to get an email from you Rob, I think this conversation has resulted in us doubling our total communique in this game thus far! :-p)
From: Rob Ackerley [mailto:rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 2:07 PM
To: Michael Sims; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
I was just trying to interject some humour... I am torn and we all have probably been on both sides of choices like this... Sucks yes, but part of the game and part of the duty of the GM's who graciously grant us their time to manage our games.
I jumping out of this debate now...
From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
To: Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 1:59:35 PM
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
So we need to rely on a 3rd-party program, which Michael does not send out the .dpy files for, instead of using the map he does send, which does have abbreviations on it which are supposedly to be accepted? It definitely looks like HST, irrelevant of what the actual text name is.
Can you at least pls take the abbreviations off the map, if you're not going to allow the ones that are printed on it?
I guess I didnt look at the error initially, but this is silly to not accept an abbrev that's on the map that's sent out.
-mike
From: Rob Ackerley [mailto:rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:51 PM
To: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout; Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Cut and paste from RP Saves all the problems and is a lot less work too!
From: MICHAEL BOUTOT <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
To: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Cc: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 1:49:43 PM
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
1 can clearly read Malacca Strait underneath the 3 letters in dispute. That alone makes it clear. The other earlier errors had the same conflict that should have raised a white flag.
--- On Mon, 2/9/09, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:95b76770da]From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: "Former Trout" <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: "Jason 4747" <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT" <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "158NewArchersJason Longbow" <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "209Australia Nick Cherrier" <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts" <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "209Vietnam Rob Ackerley" <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>, "DC101tGMStephen Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 11:24 AM
Yeah but you have to agree the map clearly looks like HST,
or certainly could be read that way. I mean if we cant rely
on the abbreviations on the map we're receiving from the
GM, then what can we rely on?
________________________________
From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:20 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason
Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob
Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley; DC101tGMStephen Lytton;
dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Personally I would allow the move as well. However, to be
fair to Michael, he identified WAY early at the beginning of
the game that he was going to be taking a strict
interpretation of the abbreviations. I almost had an order
disallowed because I didn't call the province the right
name - but luckily I included the correct abbreviation in
brackets...
Long story short, I'd say its the GMs call to make. =)
T.
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Michael Sims
<mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
MST and HST look identical in that font. Why are we not
allowing that move? It's not ambiguous, and the
lettering could be read as either one.
-mike
________________________________
From: Jason 4747 [mailto:jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 11:35 AM
To: 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason Longbow;
209Thailand Trout former.trout; 209Australia Nick Cherrier;
209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley;
Michael Sims
Cc: DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Mike,
To be fair, MSt almost equals HSt on my screen, but it is
no excuse for goegraphy stupidity on my part....
As for that and other error, kids, let it be a lesson to
you - multitasking just does not work. And just say no to
drugs.
Jason
[quote:95b76770da]Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 18:46:41 -0800
From: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Subject: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email]); Githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]Githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email]);
former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email]);
salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email]); rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email]);
mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])
CC: stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
I didn't think I'd see days like these
either. John Lennon. P was on the road away from map but it
is I's moves which are the show. 1. Malacca Strait
clearly can't be HST so not a reading the map issue.
Hold. 2. F jak move to Cjak has no coast. Hold. 3. Only 7
moves - none for F Jav. Hold. The 1 P ret is a given but F
Jav can go many places. Mon due. Indonesian F Jav can
retreat to NIO or Bal or SlS or Slw or ETi
or WTi or CJa(nc).
Philippine F SCS can retreat to Luz.
Indonesia:
F And - Bur (*Fails*)
F TiS Supports F PHe - SIO
F Jav, no move received (*Dislodged*)
F PHe - SIO
F Jak Hold
F Med Hold
A Sab - Kuc
A Kuc - WKa
Malaysia:
F Bru Supports A Sab - Kuc
A Pah - KLu (*Fails*)
Philippines:
F NPS - ECS (*Fails*)
F SCS Supports F NPS - ECS (*Dislodged*)
F SuS Supports F Ceb - SSe
F Ara - BaS
F Ceb - SSe
A Luz - Man
F Tai Supports F SCS
Thailand:
F GTh - Tha(ec) (*Bounce*)
F MSe - Jav
F Sur Supports F MSe - Jav
F Sin Supports F MSe - Jav
F SpI - MSe
F Ked - MSt
A KBh - Tha (*Bounce*)
A KLu Supports F Sin (*Cut*)
A Bur Hold
Vietnam:
F ECS - NPS (*Fails*)
F SSe - SpI
F ViS Supports F Fuj - SCS
F Sai Supports F SpI - MSe
A HKo - Dav (*Fails*)
F Fuj - SCS
F Guz Supports F Fuj - SCS
________________________________
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[/quote:95b76770da]
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DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD (dc209) FuzzyLogic Feb 09, 04:28 pm |
That's fine, I dont really care it's just a game... and an inactive one where 2 players aren't even diploming at that. I only brought up the rule cuz you brought up a rule first. And the rule I brought up clearly states that the abbreviation "will be accepted" unless you're going to argue that abbreviations printed on the map are not reasonable. (it seems you're making that argument?)
But what's done is done, I wouldnt mind having the map have clear abbreviations added, since the ones printed on the map are not reasonable to use. I have been going along this game, just guessing at the spots, under the premise that if an H was swapped for an M, it would be accepted, since they look the same. If that's not the case, then the map needs to be clarified, cuz that's all we have to go on.
From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 4:07 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Rob Ackerley; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com; Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
What is 'reasonable' is defined by the GM. Not just in this game, but in any PBEM game. Obviously in this case, Michael (the GM) feels differently about it then you do.
Anyways, I apologize to my fellow players for the public argument. I'll just shut up now. =P
Trout
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 2:46 PM, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
Are you serious??
The rule ALSO says:
The GM will accept all reasonable abbreviations. However if an order is unclear and not clarified by the deadline, the order will be declared void and the unit will hold. Abbreviations that could be applied to more than one space on the map (such as NOR and LIV) should be avoided. EG Lvp or Liverpool for Liverpool and Lvn or Livonia or Livonia.
"The GM will accept all reasonable abbreviations". That is blatantly clear!
Is this a "reasonable abbreviation"? Well it's on the map, it looks like HST to me. I would say it counts as "reasonable", as in it can be reasoned that that space would be HST by the writing on the map.
Is the order unclear? Well could HST be anything else on the map? Let's look at the map. Nope... there it is. Right there, one space. Even labeled HST (or is it MST? I cant tell)
If you're going to suggest we follow the rules, then I think there is absolutely no grounded case to say HST should fail!
I am not trying to pressure anyone. Tho you seem to think we should not even discuss it like gentlemen. Other players were even joking about it. I would say there is no pressure, just bewilderment as to why the above rule is not being applied, when it seems very appropriate that HST is not ambiguous, can not be mistaken for anywhere else, and it's LABELED ON THE MAP as such, in such a bad font, that one cant possibly tell if it's HST or MST. And the rules of the game clearly state The GM will accept all reasonable abbreviations. So it fails???
Come on Trout you usually stand up for following the rules... this is a weird position for you to take.
-mike
From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 3:34 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Rob Ackerley; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
I'll ignore the inflammatory stuff in this email and just focus on the pertinent detail.
Michael uses the default DC house rules, according to the game page. Point 4 of those HRs - (which YOU helped write might I add) state:
As always in all DC games, the GM of the game has the final say and final decision on all matters relating to the game, whether they are covered in the rules or not
What I think of the decision, or what you think of the decision is frankly irrelevent. Michael made the call, based on player questions reconsidered it, and then kept with the original ruling.
For the record, I would have had no problem bouncing in MST if Michael had reversed his decision. BUT - I DO have a problem with a player attempting to loudly pressure the GM into doing so. Especially when that player knows better.
Trout
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 2:11 PM, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:76315721ce] Point? That a player wrote an order, using the letters printed on the map, which as best I can tell by actually looking at the map the M and the H are indistinguishable, yet it was misordered. The order was not ambiguous - if there was another space nearby that was HST, then MST and HST need to be different. But given that's how it's labeled, I see no reason not to accept it. But I guess there's no point, and it's in your best interest to see to it that nothing is changed, but I did want to voice that it was a challengeable ruling, and so I challenged it. Er seconded Jason's challenge rather. Am I not entitled to challenge a ruling? Michael has made his statement, doesnt mean I cant point out that a player used the abbreviation printed on the map, and that was misordered cuz apparently we're supposed to make up our own abbreviation based on the textual wording which only exists on some of the provinces. Because you did get it right, I'll give you a pat on the back for that. I never suggested invalidating your order.
From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 3:01 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Rob Ackerley; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
I don't know if I buy that argument. I used the same map that the GM sent out and ordered to the same spot. Somehow I managed to get the correct abbreviation...
What exactly is the point of all of this, Mike? Again - I don't know if I agree with the call made by the GM, but it is definitely HIS call to make...
T.
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 1:28 PM, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:76315721ce] I know you were, and it was amusing, and it does exemplify the fact that using an unrelated 3rd party app we'd be correct, but using the maps our gm sends out, we'd get misorders. (it was also nice to get an email from you Rob, I think this conversation has resulted in us doubling our total communique in this game thus far! :-p)
From: Rob Ackerley [mailto:rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 2:07 PM
To: Michael Sims; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
I was just trying to interject some humour... I am torn and we all have probably been on both sides of choices like this... Sucks yes, but part of the game and part of the duty of the GM's who graciously grant us their time to manage our games.
I jumping out of this debate now...
From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
To: Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 1:59:35 PM
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
So we need to rely on a 3rd-party program, which Michael does not send out the .dpy files for, instead of using the map he does send, which does have abbreviations on it which are supposedly to be accepted? It definitely looks like HST, irrelevant of what the actual text name is.
Can you at least pls take the abbreviations off the map, if you're not going to allow the ones that are printed on it?
I guess I didnt look at the error initially, but this is silly to not accept an abbrev that's on the map that's sent out.
-mike
From: Rob Ackerley [mailto:rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:51 PM
To: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout; Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Cut and paste from RP Saves all the problems and is a lot less work too!
From: MICHAEL BOUTOT <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
To: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Cc: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 1:49:43 PM
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
1 can clearly read Malacca Strait underneath the 3 letters in dispute. That alone makes it clear. The other earlier errors had the same conflict that should have raised a white flag.
--- On Mon, 2/9/09, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:76315721ce]From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: "Former Trout" <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: "Jason 4747" <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT" <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "158NewArchersJason Longbow" <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "209Australia Nick Cherrier" <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts" <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "209Vietnam Rob Ackerley" <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>, "DC101tGMStephen Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 11:24 AM
Yeah but you have to agree the map clearly looks like HST,
or certainly could be read that way. I mean if we cant rely
on the abbreviations on the map we're receiving from the
GM, then what can we rely on?
________________________________
From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:20 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason
Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob
Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley; DC101tGMStephen Lytton;
dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Personally I would allow the move as well. However, to be
fair to Michael, he identified WAY early at the beginning of
the game that he was going to be taking a strict
interpretation of the abbreviations. I almost had an order
disallowed because I didn't call the province the right
name - but luckily I included the correct abbreviation in
brackets...
Long story short, I'd say its the GMs call to make. =)
T.
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Michael Sims
<mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
MST and HST look identical in that font. Why are we not
allowing that move? It's not ambiguous, and the
lettering could be read as either one.
-mike
________________________________
From: Jason 4747 [mailto:jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 11:35 AM
To: 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason Longbow;
209Thailand Trout former.trout; 209Australia Nick Cherrier;
209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley;
Michael Sims
Cc: DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Mike,
To be fair, MSt almost equals HSt on my screen, but it is
no excuse for goegraphy stupidity on my part....
As for that and other error, kids, let it be a lesson to
you - multitasking just does not work. And just say no to
drugs.
Jason
[quote:76315721ce]Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 18:46:41 -0800
From: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Subject: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email]); Githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]Githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email]);
former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email]);
salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email]); rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email]);
mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])
CC: stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
I didn't think I'd see days like these
either. John Lennon. P was on the road away from map but it
is I's moves which are the show. 1. Malacca Strait
clearly can't be HST so not a reading the map issue.
Hold. 2. F jak move to Cjak has no coast. Hold. 3. Only 7
moves - none for F Jav. Hold. The 1 P ret is a given but F
Jav can go many places. Mon due. Indonesian F Jav can
retreat to NIO or Bal or SlS or Slw or ETi
or WTi or CJa(nc).
Philippine F SCS can retreat to Luz.
Indonesia:
F And - Bur (*Fails*)
F TiS Supports F PHe - SIO
F Jav, no move received (*Dislodged*)
F PHe - SIO
F Jak Hold
F Med Hold
A Sab - Kuc
A Kuc - WKa
Malaysia:
F Bru Supports A Sab - Kuc
A Pah - KLu (*Fails*)
Philippines:
F NPS - ECS (*Fails*)
F SCS Supports F NPS - ECS (*Dislodged*)
F SuS Supports F Ceb - SSe
F Ara - BaS
F Ceb - SSe
A Luz - Man
F Tai Supports F SCS
Thailand:
F GTh - Tha(ec) (*Bounce*)
F MSe - Jav
F Sur Supports F MSe - Jav
F Sin Supports F MSe - Jav
F SpI - MSe
F Ked - MSt
A KBh - Tha (*Bounce*)
A KLu Supports F Sin (*Cut*)
A Bur Hold
Vietnam:
F ECS - NPS (*Fails*)
F SSe - SpI
F ViS Supports F Fuj - SCS
F Sai Supports F SpI - MSe
A HKo - Dav (*Fails*)
F Fuj - SCS
F Guz Supports F Fuj - SCS
________________________________
Windows Live(tm): Keep your life in sync. See how it
works.
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[/quote:76315721ce]
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DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD (dc209) jason4747 Feb 11, 03:59 pm |
Mike and Mike,
I do appreciate your argument on my behalf - for what it's worth I agree, but, Vegas is kind enough to be the GM and what the GM says, goes.
I also have to agree that someone did successfully reach the spot and I have gotten it correct in the past. Just too hurried this round. For whatever reason this last two weeks has been a buzzsaw at work for several of us who usually do pay good, close attention.
For what it's worth, the space in Australia's west Coast is hard to distinguish for the same reason so if anyone is able to fix it eventually it might be worth addressing for other provinces. The whole RP and other file types are beyond my technical capacity.
Anyway, lets play on, I think we are reaching critical mass anyway.
Jason
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 14:27:33 -0800
From: mike(at)southwall.com
To: former.trout(at)gmail.com
CC: rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com; jason4747(at)hotmail.com; githraine(at)yahoo.com; zeclient(at)hotmail.com; salexander37(at)gmail.com; stevelytton(at)hotmail.com; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
That's fine, I dont really care it's just a game... and an inactive one where 2 players aren't even diploming at that. I only brought up the rule cuz you brought up a rule first. And the rule I brought up clearly states that the abbreviation "will be accepted" unless you're going to argue that abbreviations printed on the map are not reasonable. (it seems you're making that argument?)
But what's done is done, I wouldnt mind having the map have clear abbreviations added, since the ones printed on the map are not reasonable to use. I have been going along this game, just guessing at the spots, under the premise that if an H was swapped for an M, it would be accepted, since they look the same. If that's not the case, then the map needs to be clarified, cuz that's all we have to go on.
From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 4:07 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Rob Ackerley; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com; Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
What is 'reasonable' is defined by the GM. Not just in this game, but in any PBEM game. Obviously in this case, Michael (the GM) feels differently about it then you do.
Anyways, I apologize to my fellow players for the public argument. I'll just shut up now. =P
Trout
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 2:46 PM, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
Are you serious??
The rule ALSO says:
The GM will accept all reasonable abbreviations. However if an order is unclear and not clarified by the deadline, the order will be declared void and the unit will hold. Abbreviations that could be applied to more than one space on the map (such as NOR and LIV) should be avoided. EG Lvp or Liverpool for Liverpool and Lvn or Livonia or Livonia.
"The GM will accept all reasonable abbreviations". That is blatantly clear!
Is this a "reasonable abbreviation"? Well it's on the map, it looks like HST to me. I would say it counts as "reasonable", as in it can be reasoned that that space would be HST by the writing on the map.
Is the order unclear? Well could HST be anything else on the map? Let's look at the map. Nope... there it is. Right there, one space. Even labeled HST (or is it MST? I cant tell)
If you're going to suggest we follow the rules, then I think there is absolutely no grounded case to say HST should fail!
I am not trying to pressure anyone. Tho you seem to think we should not even discuss it like gentlemen. Other players were even joking about it. I would say there is no pressure, just bewilderment as to why the above rule is not being applied, when it seems very appropriate that HST is not ambiguous, can not be mistaken for anywhere else, and it's LABELED ON THE MAP as such, in such a bad font, that one cant possibly tell if it's HST or MST. And the rules of the game clearly state The GM will accept all reasonable abbreviations. So it fails???
Come on Trout you usually stand up for following the rules... this is a weird position for you to take.
-mike
From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 3:34 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Rob Ackerley; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
I'll ignore the inflammatory stuff in this email and just focus on the pertinent detail.
Michael uses the default DC house rules, according to the game page. Point 4 of those HRs - (which YOU helped write might I add) state:
As always in all DC games, the GM of the game has the final say and final decision on all matters relating to the game, whether they are covered in the rules or not
What I think of the decision, or what you think of the decision is frankly irrelevent. Michael made the call, based on player questions reconsidered it, and then kept with the original ruling.
For the record, I would have had no problem bouncing in MST if Michael had reversed his decision. BUT - I DO have a problem with a player attempting to loudly pressure the GM into doing so. Especially when that player knows better.
Trout
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 2:11 PM, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:da3e25679a] Point? That a player wrote an order, using the letters printed on the map, which as best I can tell by actually looking at the map the M and the H are indistinguishable, yet it was misordered. The order was not ambiguous - if there was another space nearby that was HST, then MST and HST need to be different. But given that's how it's labeled, I see no reason not to accept it. But I guess there's no point, and it's in your best interest to see to it that nothing is changed, but I did want to voice that it was a challengeable ruling, and so I challenged it. Er seconded Jason's challenge rather. Am I not entitled to challenge a ruling? Michael has made his statement, doesnt mean I cant point out that a player used the abbreviation printed on the map, and that was misordered cuz apparently we're supposed to make up our own abbreviation based on the textual wording which only exists on some of the provinces. Because you did get it right, I'll give you a pat on the back for that. I never suggested invalidating your order.
From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 3:01 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Rob Ackerley; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
I don't know if I buy that argument. I used the same map that the GM sent out and ordered to the same spot. Somehow I managed to get the correct abbreviation...
What exactly is the point of all of this, Mike? Again - I don't know if I agree with the call made by the GM, but it is definitely HIS call to make...
T.
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 1:28 PM, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:da3e25679a] I know you were, and it was amusing, and it does exemplify the fact that using an unrelated 3rd party app we'd be correct, but using the maps our gm sends out, we'd get misorders. (it was also nice to get an email from you Rob, I think this conversation has resulted in us doubling our total communique in this game thus far! :-p)
From: Rob Ackerley [mailto:rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 2:07 PM
To: Michael Sims; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
I was just trying to interject some humour... I am torn and we all have probably been on both sides of choices like this... Sucks yes, but part of the game and part of the duty of the GM's who graciously grant us their time to manage our games.
I jumping out of this debate now...
From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
To: Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 1:59:35 PM
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
So we need to rely on a 3rd-party program, which Michael does not send out the .dpy files for, instead of using the map he does send, which does have abbreviations on it which are supposedly to be accepted? It definitely looks like HST, irrelevant of what the actual text name is.
Can you at least pls take the abbreviations off the map, if you're not going to allow the ones that are printed on it?
I guess I didnt look at the error initially, but this is silly to not accept an abbrev that's on the map that's sent out.
-mike
From: Rob Ackerley [mailto:rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:51 PM
To: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout; Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Cut and paste from RP Saves all the problems and is a lot less work too!
From: MICHAEL BOUTOT <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
To: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Cc: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 1:49:43 PM
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
1 can clearly read Malacca Strait underneath the 3 letters in dispute. That alone makes it clear. The other earlier errors had the same conflict that should have raised a white flag.
--- On Mon, 2/9/09, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:da3e25679a]From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: "Former Trout" <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: "Jason 4747" <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT" <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "158NewArchersJason Longbow" <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "209Australia Nick Cherrier" <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts" <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "209Vietnam Rob Ackerley" <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>, "DC101tGMStephen Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 11:24 AM
Yeah but you have to agree the map clearly looks like HST,
or certainly could be read that way. I mean if we cant rely
on the abbreviations on the map we're receiving from the
GM, then what can we rely on?
________________________________
From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:20 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason
Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob
Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley; DC101tGMStephen Lytton;
dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Personally I would allow the move as well. However, to be
fair to Michael, he identified WAY early at the beginning of
the game that he was going to be taking a strict
interpretation of the abbreviations. I almost had an order
disallowed because I didn't call the province the right
name - but luckily I included the correct abbreviation in
brackets...
Long story short, I'd say its the GMs call to make. =)
T.
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Michael Sims
<mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
MST and HST look identical in that font. Why are we not
allowing that move? It's not ambiguous, and the
lettering could be read as either one.
-mike
________________________________
From: Jason 4747 [mailto:jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 11:35 AM
To: 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason Longbow;
209Thailand Trout former.trout; 209Australia Nick Cherrier;
209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley;
Michael Sims
Cc: DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
Mike,
To be fair, MSt almost equals HSt on my screen, but it is
no excuse for goegraphy stupidity on my part....
As for that and other error, kids, let it be a lesson to
you - multitasking just does not work. And just say no to
drugs.
Jason
[quote:da3e25679a]Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 18:46:41 -0800
From: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Subject: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email]); Githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]Githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email]);
former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email]);
salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email]); rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email]);
mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])
CC: stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
I didn't think I'd see days like these
either. John Lennon. P was on the road away from map but it
is I's moves which are the show. 1. Malacca Strait
clearly can't be HST so not a reading the map issue.
Hold. 2. F jak move to Cjak has no coast. Hold. 3. Only 7
moves - none for F Jav. Hold. The 1 P ret is a given but F
Jav can go many places. Mon due. Indonesian F Jav can
retreat to NIO or Bal or SlS or Slw or ETi
or WTi or CJa(nc).
Philippine F SCS can retreat to Luz.
Indonesia:
F And - Bur (*Fails*)
F TiS Supports F PHe - SIO
F Jav, no move received (*Dislodged*)
F PHe - SIO
F Jak Hold
F Med Hold
A Sab - Kuc
A Kuc - WKa
Malaysia:
F Bru Supports A Sab - Kuc
A Pah - KLu (*Fails*)
Philippines:
F NPS - ECS (*Fails*)
F SCS Supports F NPS - ECS (*Dislodged*)
F SuS Supports F Ceb - SSe
F Ara - BaS
F Ceb - SSe
A Luz - Man
F Tai Supports F SCS
Thailand:
F GTh - Tha(ec) (*Bounce*)
F MSe - Jav
F Sur Supports F MSe - Jav
F Sin Supports F MSe - Jav
F SpI - MSe
F Ked - MSt
A KBh - Tha (*Bounce*)
A KLu Supports F Sin (*Cut*)
A Bur Hold
Vietnam:
F ECS - NPS (*Fails*)
F SSe - SpI
F ViS Supports F Fuj - SCS
F Sai Supports F SpI - MSe
A HKo - Dav (*Fails*)
F Fuj - SCS
F Guz Supports F Fuj - SCS
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