I'll ignore the inflammatory stuff in this email and just focus on the pertinent detail.

Michael uses the default DC house rules, according to the game page. Point 4 of those HRs - (which YOU helped write might I add) state:


As always in all DC games, the GM of the game has the final say and final decision on all matters relating to the game, whether they are covered in the rules or not


What I think of the decision, or what you think of the decision is frankly irrelevent. Michael made the call, based on player questions reconsidered it, and then kept with the original ruling.


For the record, I would have had no problem bouncing in MST if Michael had reversed his decision. BUT - I DO have a problem with a player attempting to loudly pressure the GM into doing so. Especially when that player knows better.


Trout




On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 2:11 PM, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:

Point? That a player wrote an order, using the letters printed on the map, which as best I can tell by actually looking at the map the M and the H are indistinguishable, yet it was misordered. The order was not ambiguous - if there was another space nearby that was HST, then MST and HST need to be different. But given that's how it's labeled, I see no reason not to accept it. But I guess there's no point, and it's in your best interest to see to it that nothing is changed, but I did want to voice that it was a challengeable ruling, and so I challenged it. Er seconded Jason's challenge rather. Am I not entitled to challenge a ruling? Michael has made his statement, doesnt mean I cant point out that a player used the abbreviation printed on the map, and that was misordered cuz apparently we're supposed to make up our own abbreviation based on the textual wording which only exists on some of the provinces. Because you did get it right, I'll give you a pat on the back for that. I never suggested invalidating your order.


From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]

Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 3:01 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Rob Ackerley; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD





I don't know if I buy that argument. I used the same map that the GM sent out and ordered to the same spot. Somehow I managed to get the correct abbreviation...

What exactly is the point of all of this, Mike? Again - I don't know if I agree with the call made by the GM, but it is definitely HIS call to make...


T.

On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 1:28 PM, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:f8412ebb61] I know you were, and it was amusing, and it does exemplify the fact that using an unrelated 3rd party app we'd be correct, but using the maps our gm sends out, we'd get misorders. (it was also nice to get an email from you Rob, I think this conversation has resulted in us doubling our total communique in this game thus far! :-p)


From: Rob Ackerley [mailto:rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])]

Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 2:07 PM
To: Michael Sims; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout

Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD





I was just trying to interject some humour... I am torn and we all have probably been on both sides of choices like this... Sucks yes, but part of the game and part of the duty of the GM's who graciously grant us their time to manage our games.

I jumping out of this debate now...


From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
To: Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 1:59:35 PM
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD

So we need to rely on a 3rd-party program, which Michael does not send out the .dpy files for, instead of using the map he does send, which does have abbreviations on it which are supposedly to be accepted? It definitely looks like HST, irrelevant of what the actual text name is.

Can you at least pls take the abbreviations off the map, if you're not going to allow the ones that are printed on it?

I guess I didnt look at the error initially, but this is silly to not accept an abbrev that's on the map that's sent out.
-mike



From: Rob Ackerley [mailto:rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:51 PM
To: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout; Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD


Cut and paste from RP Saves all the problems and is a lot less work too!


From: MICHAEL BOUTOT <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
To: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Cc: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 1:49:43 PM
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD

1 can clearly read Malacca Strait underneath the 3 letters in dispute. That alone makes it clear. The other earlier errors had the same conflict that should have raised a white flag.


--- On Mon, 2/9/09, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:

[quote:f8412ebb61]From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: "Former Trout" <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: "Jason 4747" <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT" <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "158NewArchersJason Longbow" <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "209Australia Nick Cherrier" <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts" <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "209Vietnam Rob Ackerley" <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>, "DC101tGMStephen Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 11:24 AM
Yeah but you have to agree the map clearly looks like HST,
or certainly could be read that way. I mean if we cant rely
on the abbreviations on the map we're receiving from the
GM, then what can we rely on?

________________________________

From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:20 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason
Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob
Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley; DC101tGMStephen Lytton;
dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD


Personally I would allow the move as well. However, to be
fair to Michael, he identified WAY early at the beginning of
the game that he was going to be taking a strict
interpretation of the abbreviations. I almost had an order
disallowed because I didn't call the province the right
name - but luckily I included the correct abbreviation in
brackets...

Long story short, I'd say its the GMs call to make. =)

T.


On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Michael Sims
<mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:


MST and HST look identical in that font. Why are we not
allowing that move? It's not ambiguous, and the
lettering could be read as either one.
-mike


________________________________

From: Jason 4747 [mailto:jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 11:35 AM
To: 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason Longbow;
209Thailand Trout former.trout; 209Australia Nick Cherrier;
209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley;
Michael Sims
Cc: DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD


Mike,

To be fair, MSt almost equals HSt on my screen, but it is
no excuse for goegraphy stupidity on my part....

As for that and other error, kids, let it be a lesson to
you - multitasking just does not work. And just say no to
drugs.

Jason





[quote:f8412ebb61]Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 18:46:41 -0800
From: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Subject: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email]); Githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]Githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email]);

former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email]);
salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email]); rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email]);
mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])

CC: stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

I didn't think I'd see days like these

either. John Lennon. P was on the road away from map but it
is I's moves which are the show. 1. Malacca Strait
clearly can't be HST so not a reading the map issue.
Hold. 2. F jak move to Cjak has no coast. Hold. 3. Only 7
moves - none for F Jav. Hold. The 1 P ret is a given but F
Jav can go many places. Mon due. Indonesian F Jav can
retreat to NIO or Bal or SlS or Slw or ETi

or WTi or CJa(nc).
Philippine F SCS can retreat to Luz.

Indonesia:
F And - Bur (*Fails*)
F TiS Supports F PHe - SIO
F Jav, no move received (*Dislodged*)
F PHe - SIO
F Jak Hold
F Med Hold
A Sab - Kuc
A Kuc - WKa

Malaysia:
F Bru Supports A Sab - Kuc
A Pah - KLu (*Fails*)

Philippines:
F NPS - ECS (*Fails*)
F SCS Supports F NPS - ECS (*Dislodged*)
F SuS Supports F Ceb - SSe
F Ara - BaS
F Ceb - SSe
A Luz - Man
F Tai Supports F SCS

Thailand:
F GTh - Tha(ec) (*Bounce*)
F MSe - Jav
F Sur Supports F MSe - Jav
F Sin Supports F MSe - Jav
F SpI - MSe
F Ked - MSt
A KBh - Tha (*Bounce*)
A KLu Supports F Sin (*Cut*)
A Bur Hold

Vietnam:
F ECS - NPS (*Fails*)
F SSe - SpI
F ViS Supports F Fuj - SCS
F Sai Supports F SpI - MSe
A HKo - Dav (*Fails*)
F Fuj - SCS
F Guz Supports F Fuj - SCS

________________________________

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