Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 18:46:41 -0800
From: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com
Subject: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: jason4747(at)hotmail.com; Githraine(at)yahoo.com; former.trout(at)gmail.com; zeclient(at)hotmail.com; salexander37(at)gmail.com; rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca; mike(at)southwall.com
CC: stevelytton(at)hotmail.com; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com

I didn't think I'd see days like these either. John Lennon. P was on the road away from map but it is I's moves which are the show. 1. Malacca Strait clearly can't be HST so not a reading the map issue. Hold. 2. F jak move to Cjak has no coast. Hold. 3. Only 7 moves - none for F Jav. Hold. The 1 P ret is a given but F Jav can go many places. Mon due. Indonesian F Jav can retreat to NIO or Bal or SlS or Slw or ETi
or WTi or CJa(nc).
Philippine F SCS can retreat to Luz.

Indonesia:
F And - Bur (*Fails*)
F TiS Supports F PHe - SIO
F Jav, no move received (*Dislodged*)
F PHe - SIO
F Jak Hold
F Med Hold
A Sab - Kuc
A Kuc - WKa

Malaysia:
F Bru Supports A Sab - Kuc
A Pah - KLu (*Fails*)

Philippines:
F NPS - ECS (*Fails*)
F SCS Supports F NPS - ECS (*Dislodged*)
F SuS Supports F Ceb - SSe
F Ara - BaS
F Ceb - SSe
A Luz - Man
F Tai Supports F SCS

Thailand:
F GTh - Tha(ec) (*Bounce*)
F MSe - Jav
F Sur Supports F MSe - Jav
F Sin Supports F MSe - Jav
F SpI - MSe
F Ked - MSt
A KBh - Tha (*Bounce*)
A KLu Supports F Sin (*Cut*)
A Bur Hold

Vietnam:
F ECS - NPS (*Fails*)
F SSe - SpI
F ViS Supports F Fuj - SCS
F Sai Supports F SpI - MSe
A HKo - Dav (*Fails*)
F Fuj - SCS
F Guz Supports F Fuj - SCS

Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 18:46:41 -0800
From: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com
Subject: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: jason4747(at)hotmail.com; Githraine(at)yahoo.com; former.trout(at)gmail.com; zeclient(at)hotmail.com; salexander37(at)gmail.com; rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca; mike(at)southwall.com
CC: stevelytton(at)hotmail.com; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com

I didn't think I'd see days like these either. John Lennon. P was on the road away from map but it is I's moves which are the show. 1. Malacca Strait clearly can't be HST so not a reading the map issue. Hold. 2. F jak move to Cjak has no coast. Hold. 3. Only 7 moves - none for F Jav. Hold. The 1 P ret is a given but F Jav can go many places. Mon due. Indonesian F Jav can retreat to NIO or Bal or SlS or Slw or ETi
or WTi or CJa(nc).
Philippine F SCS can retreat to Luz.

Indonesia:
F And - Bur (*Fails*)
F TiS Supports F PHe - SIO
F Jav, no move received (*Dislodged*)
F PHe - SIO
F Jak Hold
F Med Hold
A Sab - Kuc
A Kuc - WKa

Malaysia:
F Bru Supports A Sab - Kuc
A Pah - KLu (*Fails*)

Philippines:
F NPS - ECS (*Fails*)
F SCS Supports F NPS - ECS (*Dislodged*)
F SuS Supports F Ceb - SSe
F Ara - BaS
F Ceb - SSe
A Luz - Man
F Tai Supports F SCS

Thailand:
F GTh - Tha(ec) (*Bounce*)
F MSe - Jav
F Sur Supports F MSe - Jav
F Sin Supports F MSe - Jav
F SpI - MSe
F Ked - MSt
A KBh - Tha (*Bounce*)
A KLu Supports F Sin (*Cut*)
A Bur Hold

Vietnam:
F ECS - NPS (*Fails*)
F SSe - SpI
F ViS Supports F Fuj - SCS
F Sai Supports F SpI - MSe
A HKo - Dav (*Fails*)
F Fuj - SCS
F Guz Supports F Fuj - SCS

MST and HST look identical in that font. Why are we not allowing that move? It's not ambiguous, and the lettering could be read as either one.
-mike



From: Jason 4747 [mailto:jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 11:35 AM
To: 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Thailand Trout former.trout; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley; Michael Sims
Cc: DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD



Mike,

To be fair, MSt almost equals HSt on my screen, but it is no excuse for goegraphy stupidity on my part....

As for that and other error, kids, let it be a lesson to you - multitasking just does not work. And just say no to drugs.

Jason





[quote:ef5e740401]Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 18:46:41 -0800
From: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Subject: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email]); Githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]Githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email]); former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email]); salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email]); rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email]); mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])
CC: stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

I didn't think I'd see days like these either. John Lennon. P was on the road away from map but it is I's moves which are the show. 1. Malacca Strait clearly can't be HST so not a reading the map issue. Hold. 2. F jak move to Cjak has no coast. Hold. 3. Only 7 moves - none for F Jav. Hold. The 1 P ret is a given but F Jav can go many places. Mon due. Indonesian F Jav can retreat to NIO or Bal or SlS or Slw or ETi
or WTi or CJa(nc).
Philippine F SCS can retreat to Luz.

Indonesia:
F And - Bur (*Fails*)
F TiS Supports F PHe - SIO
F Jav, no move received (*Dislodged*)
F PHe - SIO
F Jak Hold
F Med Hold
A Sab - Kuc
A Kuc - WKa

Malaysia:
F Bru Supports A Sab - Kuc
A Pah - KLu (*Fails*)

Philippines:
F NPS - ECS (*Fails*)
F SCS Supports F NPS - ECS (*Dislodged*)
F SuS Supports F Ceb - SSe
F Ara - BaS
F Ceb - SSe
A Luz - Man
F Tai Supports F SCS

Thailand:
F GTh - Tha(ec) (*Bounce*)
F MSe - Jav
F Sur Supports F MSe - Jav
F Sin Supports F MSe - Jav
F SpI - MSe
F Ked - MSt
A KBh - Tha (*Bounce*)
A KLu Supports F Sin (*Cut*)
A Bur Hold

Vietnam:
F ECS - NPS (*Fails*)
F SSe - SpI
F ViS Supports F Fuj - SCS
F Sai Supports F SpI - MSe
A HKo - Dav (*Fails*)
F Fuj - SCS
F Guz Supports F Fuj - SCS

MST and HST look identical in that font. Why are we not allowing that move? It's not ambiguous, and the lettering could be read as either one.
-mike



From: Jason 4747 [mailto:jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 11:35 AM
To: 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Thailand Trout former.trout; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley; Michael Sims
Cc: DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD



Mike,

To be fair, MSt almost equals HSt on my screen, but it is no excuse for goegraphy stupidity on my part....

As for that and other error, kids, let it be a lesson to you - multitasking just does not work. And just say no to drugs.

Jason





[quote:80cdc766fe]Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 18:46:41 -0800
From: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Subject: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email]); Githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]Githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email]); former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email]); zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email]); salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email]); rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email]); mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])
CC: stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

I didn't think I'd see days like these either. John Lennon. P was on the road away from map but it is I's moves which are the show. 1. Malacca Strait clearly can't be HST so not a reading the map issue. Hold. 2. F jak move to Cjak has no coast. Hold. 3. Only 7 moves - none for F Jav. Hold. The 1 P ret is a given but F Jav can go many places. Mon due. Indonesian F Jav can retreat to NIO or Bal or SlS or Slw or ETi
or WTi or CJa(nc).
Philippine F SCS can retreat to Luz.

Indonesia:
F And - Bur (*Fails*)
F TiS Supports F PHe - SIO
F Jav, no move received (*Dislodged*)
F PHe - SIO
F Jak Hold
F Med Hold
A Sab - Kuc
A Kuc - WKa

Malaysia:
F Bru Supports A Sab - Kuc
A Pah - KLu (*Fails*)

Philippines:
F NPS - ECS (*Fails*)
F SCS Supports F NPS - ECS (*Dislodged*)
F SuS Supports F Ceb - SSe
F Ara - BaS
F Ceb - SSe
A Luz - Man
F Tai Supports F SCS

Thailand:
F GTh - Tha(ec) (*Bounce*)
F MSe - Jav
F Sur Supports F MSe - Jav
F Sin Supports F MSe - Jav
F SpI - MSe
F Ked - MSt
A KBh - Tha (*Bounce*)
A KLu Supports F Sin (*Cut*)
A Bur Hold

Vietnam:
F ECS - NPS (*Fails*)
F SSe - SpI
F ViS Supports F Fuj - SCS
F Sai Supports F SpI - MSe
A HKo - Dav (*Fails*)
F Fuj - SCS
F Guz Supports F Fuj - SCS

From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com>
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: "Former Trout" <former.trout(at)gmail.com>
Cc: "Jason 4747" <jason4747(at)hotmail.com>, "209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT" <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com>, "158NewArchersJason Longbow" <githraine(at)yahoo.com>, "209Australia Nick Cherrier" <zeclient(at)hotmail.com>, "209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts" <salexander37(at)gmail.com>, "209Vietnam Rob Ackerley" <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca>, "DC101tGMStephen Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>, dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 11:24 AM
Yeah but you have to agree the map clearly looks like HST,
or certainly could be read that way. I mean if we cant rely
on the abbreviations on the map we're receiving from the
GM, then what can we rely on?

________________________________

From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:20 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason
Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob
Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley; DC101tGMStephen Lytton;
dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD


Personally I would allow the move as well. However, to be
fair to Michael, he identified WAY early at the beginning of
the game that he was going to be taking a strict
interpretation of the abbreviations. I almost had an order
disallowed because I didn't call the province the right
name - but luckily I included the correct abbreviation in
brackets...

Long story short, I'd say its the GMs call to make. =)

T.


On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Michael Sims
<mike(at)southwall.com> wrote:


MST and HST look identical in that font. Why are we not
allowing that move? It's not ambiguous, and the
lettering could be read as either one.
-mike


________________________________

From: Jason 4747 [mailto:jason4747(at)hotmail.com]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 11:35 AM
To: 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason Longbow;
209Thailand Trout former.trout; 209Australia Nick Cherrier;
209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley;
Michael Sims
Cc: DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD


Mike,

To be fair, MSt almost equals HSt on my screen, but it is
no excuse for goegraphy stupidity on my part....

As for that and other error, kids, let it be a lesson to
you - multitasking just does not work. And just say no to
drugs.

Jason





> Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 18:46:41 -0800
> From: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com
> Subject: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
> To: jason4747(at)hotmail.com; Githraine(at)yahoo.com;
former.trout(at)gmail.com; zeclient(at)hotmail.com;
salexander37(at)gmail.com; rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca;
mike(at)southwall.com
> CC: stevelytton(at)hotmail.com; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
>
> I didn't think I'd see days like these
either. John Lennon. P was on the road away from map but it
is I's moves which are the show. 1. Malacca Strait
clearly can't be HST so not a reading the map issue.
Hold. 2. F jak move to Cjak has no coast. Hold. 3. Only 7
moves - none for F Jav. Hold. The 1 P ret is a given but F
Jav can go many places. Mon due. Indonesian F Jav can
retreat to NIO or Bal or SlS or Slw or ETi
> or WTi or CJa(nc).
> Philippine F SCS can retreat to Luz.
>
> Indonesia:
> F And - Bur (*Fails*)
> F TiS Supports F PHe - SIO
> F Jav, no move received (*Dislodged*)
> F PHe - SIO
> F Jak Hold
> F Med Hold
> A Sab - Kuc
> A Kuc - WKa
>
> Malaysia:
> F Bru Supports A Sab - Kuc
> A Pah - KLu (*Fails*)
>
> Philippines:
> F NPS - ECS (*Fails*)
> F SCS Supports F NPS - ECS (*Dislodged*)
> F SuS Supports F Ceb - SSe
> F Ara - BaS
> F Ceb - SSe
> A Luz - Man
> F Tai Supports F SCS
>
> Thailand:
> F GTh - Tha(ec) (*Bounce*)
> F MSe - Jav
> F Sur Supports F MSe - Jav
> F Sin Supports F MSe - Jav
> F SpI - MSe
> F Ked - MSt
> A KBh - Tha (*Bounce*)
> A KLu Supports F Sin (*Cut*)
> A Bur Hold
>
> Vietnam:
> F ECS - NPS (*Fails*)
> F SSe - SpI
> F ViS Supports F Fuj - SCS
> F Sai Supports F SpI - MSe
> A HKo - Dav (*Fails*)
> F Fuj - SCS
> F Guz Supports F Fuj - SCS
>
>
>
>
>



________________________________

Windows Live(tm): Keep your life in sync. See how it
works.
<http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_022009>

From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: "Former Trout" <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: "Jason 4747" <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT" <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "158NewArchersJason Longbow" <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "209Australia Nick Cherrier" <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts" <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "209Vietnam Rob Ackerley" <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>, "DC101tGMStephen Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 11:24 AM
Yeah but you have to agree the map clearly looks like HST,
or certainly could be read that way. I mean if we cant rely
on the abbreviations on the map we're receiving from the
GM, then what can we rely on?

________________________________

From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:20 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason
Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob
Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley; DC101tGMStephen Lytton;
dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD


Personally I would allow the move as well. However, to be
fair to Michael, he identified WAY early at the beginning of
the game that he was going to be taking a strict
interpretation of the abbreviations. I almost had an order
disallowed because I didn't call the province the right
name - but luckily I included the correct abbreviation in
brackets...

Long story short, I'd say its the GMs call to make. =)

T.


On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Michael Sims
<mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:


MST and HST look identical in that font. Why are we not
allowing that move? It's not ambiguous, and the
lettering could be read as either one.
-mike


________________________________

From: Jason 4747 [mailto:jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 11:35 AM
To: 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason Longbow;
209Thailand Trout former.trout; 209Australia Nick Cherrier;
209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley;
Michael Sims
Cc: DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD


Mike,

To be fair, MSt almost equals HSt on my screen, but it is
no excuse for goegraphy stupidity on my part....

As for that and other error, kids, let it be a lesson to
you - multitasking just does not work. And just say no to
drugs.

Jason





[quote:60e743da9e]Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 18:46:41 -0800
From: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Subject: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email]); Githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]Githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email]);

CC: stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

I didn't think I'd see days like these

or WTi or CJa(nc).
Philippine F SCS can retreat to Luz.

Indonesia:
F And - Bur (*Fails*)
F TiS Supports F PHe - SIO
F Jav, no move received (*Dislodged*)
F PHe - SIO
F Jak Hold
F Med Hold
A Sab - Kuc
A Kuc - WKa

Malaysia:
F Bru Supports A Sab - Kuc
A Pah - KLu (*Fails*)

Philippines:
F NPS - ECS (*Fails*)
F SCS Supports F NPS - ECS (*Dislodged*)
F SuS Supports F Ceb - SSe
F Ara - BaS
F Ceb - SSe
A Luz - Man
F Tai Supports F SCS

Thailand:
F GTh - Tha(ec) (*Bounce*)
F MSe - Jav
F Sur Supports F MSe - Jav
F Sin Supports F MSe - Jav
F SpI - MSe
F Ked - MSt
A KBh - Tha (*Bounce*)
A KLu Supports F Sin (*Cut*)
A Bur Hold

Vietnam:
F ECS - NPS (*Fails*)
F SSe - SpI
F ViS Supports F Fuj - SCS
F Sai Supports F SpI - MSe
A HKo - Dav (*Fails*)
F Fuj - SCS
F Guz Supports F Fuj - SCS

From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: "Former Trout" <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: "Jason 4747" <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT" <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "158NewArchersJason Longbow" <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "209Australia Nick Cherrier" <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts" <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "209Vietnam Rob Ackerley" <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>, "DC101tGMStephen Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 11:24 AM
Yeah but you have to agree the map clearly looks like HST,
or certainly could be read that way. I mean if we cant rely
on the abbreviations on the map we're receiving from the
GM, then what can we rely on?

________________________________

From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:20 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason
Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob
Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley; DC101tGMStephen Lytton;
dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD


Personally I would allow the move as well. However, to be
fair to Michael, he identified WAY early at the beginning of
the game that he was going to be taking a strict
interpretation of the abbreviations. I almost had an order
disallowed because I didn't call the province the right
name - but luckily I included the correct abbreviation in
brackets...

Long story short, I'd say its the GMs call to make. =)

T.


On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Michael Sims
<mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:


MST and HST look identical in that font. Why are we not
allowing that move? It's not ambiguous, and the
lettering could be read as either one.
-mike


________________________________

From: Jason 4747 [mailto:jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 11:35 AM
To: 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason Longbow;
209Thailand Trout former.trout; 209Australia Nick Cherrier;
209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley;
Michael Sims
Cc: DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD


Mike,

To be fair, MSt almost equals HSt on my screen, but it is
no excuse for goegraphy stupidity on my part....

As for that and other error, kids, let it be a lesson to
you - multitasking just does not work. And just say no to
drugs.

Jason





[quote:4603e17e2c]Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 18:46:41 -0800
From: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Subject: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email]); Githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]Githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email]);

CC: stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

I didn't think I'd see days like these

or WTi or CJa(nc).
Philippine F SCS can retreat to Luz.

Indonesia:
F And - Bur (*Fails*)
F TiS Supports F PHe - SIO
F Jav, no move received (*Dislodged*)
F PHe - SIO
F Jak Hold
F Med Hold
A Sab - Kuc
A Kuc - WKa

Malaysia:
F Bru Supports A Sab - Kuc
A Pah - KLu (*Fails*)

Philippines:
F NPS - ECS (*Fails*)
F SCS Supports F NPS - ECS (*Dislodged*)
F SuS Supports F Ceb - SSe
F Ara - BaS
F Ceb - SSe
A Luz - Man
F Tai Supports F SCS

Thailand:
F GTh - Tha(ec) (*Bounce*)
F MSe - Jav
F Sur Supports F MSe - Jav
F Sin Supports F MSe - Jav
F SpI - MSe
F Ked - MSt
A KBh - Tha (*Bounce*)
A KLu Supports F Sin (*Cut*)
A Bur Hold

Vietnam:
F ECS - NPS (*Fails*)
F SSe - SpI
F ViS Supports F Fuj - SCS
F Sai Supports F SpI - MSe
A HKo - Dav (*Fails*)
F Fuj - SCS
F Guz Supports F Fuj - SCS

From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: "Former Trout" <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: "Jason 4747" <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT" <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "158NewArchersJason Longbow" <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "209Australia Nick Cherrier" <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts" <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "209Vietnam Rob Ackerley" <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>, "DC101tGMStephen Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 11:24 AM
Yeah but you have to agree the map clearly looks like HST,
or certainly could be read that way. I mean if we cant rely
on the abbreviations on the map we're receiving from the
GM, then what can we rely on?

________________________________

From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:20 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason
Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob
Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley; DC101tGMStephen Lytton;
dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD


Personally I would allow the move as well. However, to be
fair to Michael, he identified WAY early at the beginning of
the game that he was going to be taking a strict
interpretation of the abbreviations. I almost had an order
disallowed because I didn't call the province the right
name - but luckily I included the correct abbreviation in
brackets...

Long story short, I'd say its the GMs call to make. =)

T.


On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Michael Sims
<mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:


MST and HST look identical in that font. Why are we not
allowing that move? It's not ambiguous, and the
lettering could be read as either one.
-mike


________________________________

From: Jason 4747 [mailto:jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 11:35 AM
To: 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason Longbow;
209Thailand Trout former.trout; 209Australia Nick Cherrier;
209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley;
Michael Sims
Cc: DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD


Mike,

To be fair, MSt almost equals HSt on my screen, but it is
no excuse for goegraphy stupidity on my part....

As for that and other error, kids, let it be a lesson to
you - multitasking just does not work. And just say no to
drugs.

Jason





[quote:875da8a92c]Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 18:46:41 -0800
From: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Subject: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email]); Githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]Githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email]);

CC: stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

I didn't think I'd see days like these

or WTi or CJa(nc).
Philippine F SCS can retreat to Luz.

Indonesia:
F And - Bur (*Fails*)
F TiS Supports F PHe - SIO
F Jav, no move received (*Dislodged*)
F PHe - SIO
F Jak Hold
F Med Hold
A Sab - Kuc
A Kuc - WKa

Malaysia:
F Bru Supports A Sab - Kuc
A Pah - KLu (*Fails*)

Philippines:
F NPS - ECS (*Fails*)
F SCS Supports F NPS - ECS (*Dislodged*)
F SuS Supports F Ceb - SSe
F Ara - BaS
F Ceb - SSe
A Luz - Man
F Tai Supports F SCS

Thailand:
F GTh - Tha(ec) (*Bounce*)
F MSe - Jav
F Sur Supports F MSe - Jav
F Sin Supports F MSe - Jav
F SpI - MSe
F Ked - MSt
A KBh - Tha (*Bounce*)
A KLu Supports F Sin (*Cut*)
A Bur Hold

Vietnam:
F ECS - NPS (*Fails*)
F SSe - SpI
F ViS Supports F Fuj - SCS
F Sai Supports F SpI - MSe
A HKo - Dav (*Fails*)
F Fuj - SCS
F Guz Supports F Fuj - SCS

From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com>
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: "Rob Ackerley" <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca>, vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com, "Former Trout" <former.trout(at)gmail.com>
Cc: "Jason 4747" <jason4747(at)hotmail.com>, "158NewArchersJason Longbow" <githraine(at)yahoo.com>, "209Australia Nick Cherrier" <zeclient(at)hotmail.com>, "209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts" <salexander37(at)gmail.com>, "DC101tGMStephen Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>, dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 11:59 AM
So we need to rely on a 3rd-party program, which Michael
does not send out the .dpy files for, instead of using the
map he does send, which does have abbreviations on it which
are supposedly to be accepted? It definitely looks like
HST, irrelevant of what the actual text name is.

Can you at least pls take the abbreviations off the map, if
you're not going to allow the ones that are printed on
it?

I guess I didnt look at the error initially, but this is
silly to not accept an abbrev that's on the map
that's sent out.
-mike


________________________________

From: Rob Ackerley [mailto:rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:51 PM
To: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com; Former Trout; Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia
Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts;
DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD


Cut and paste from RP Saves all the problems and is a
lot less work too!


________________________________

From: MICHAEL BOUTOT <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com>
To: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com>; Michael
Sims <mike(at)southwall.com>
Cc: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com>;
158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com>;
209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com>;
209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts
<salexander37(at)gmail.com>; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley
<rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton
<stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 1:49:43 PM
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD

1 can clearly read Malacca Strait underneath the 3 letters
in dispute. That alone makes it clear. The other earlier
errors had the same conflict that should have raised a white
flag.


--- On Mon, 2/9/09, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com>
wrote:

[quote:6c8e327307]From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com>
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: "Former Trout"

Cc: "Jason 4747"

Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 11:24 AM
Yeah but you have to agree the map clearly looks like

or certainly could be read that way. I mean if we

on the abbreviations on the map we're receiving

GM, then what can we rely on?

________________________________

From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:20 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT;

Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby)

Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley; DC101tGMStephen

dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD


Personally I would allow the move as well. However,

fair to Michael, he identified WAY early at the

the game that he was going to be taking a strict
interpretation of the abbreviations. I almost had an

disallowed because I didn't call the province the

name - but luckily I included the correct abbreviation

brackets...

Long story short, I'd say its the GMs call to

T.


On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Michael Sims
<mike(at)southwall.com> wrote:


MST and HST look identical in that font. Why are

allowing that move? It's not ambiguous, and the
lettering could be read as either one.
-mike


________________________________

From: Jason 4747 [mailto:jason4747(at)hotmail.com]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 11:35 AM
To: 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason

209Thailand Trout former.trout; 209Australia Nick

209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob

Michael Sims
Cc: DC101tGMStephen Lytton;

Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD


Mike,

To be fair, MSt almost equals HSt on my screen,

no excuse for goegraphy stupidity on my part....

As for that and other error, kids, let it be a

you - multitasking just does not work. And just say

drugs.

Jason





[quote:6c8e327307]Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 18:46:41 -0800
From: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com
Subject: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: jason4747(at)hotmail.com;

former.trout(at)gmail.com; zeclient(at)hotmail.com;
salexander37(at)gmail.com; rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca;
mike(at)southwall.com
[quote:6c8e327307]CC: stevelytton(at)hotmail.com;

[quote:6c8e327307]
I didn't think I'd see days like

either. John Lennon. P was on the road away from map

is I's moves which are the show. 1. Malacca Strait
clearly can't be HST so not a reading the map

Hold. 2. F jak move to Cjak has no coast. Hold. 3.

moves - none for F Jav. Hold. The 1 P ret is a given

Jav can go many places. Mon due. Indonesian F Jav can
retreat to NIO or Bal or SlS or Slw or ETi
[quote:6c8e327307]or WTi or CJa(nc).
Philippine F SCS can retreat to Luz.

Indonesia:
F And - Bur (*Fails*)
F TiS Supports F PHe - SIO
F Jav, no move received (*Dislodged*)
F PHe - SIO
F Jak Hold
F Med Hold
A Sab - Kuc
A Kuc - WKa

Malaysia:
F Bru Supports A Sab - Kuc
A Pah - KLu (*Fails*)

Philippines:
F NPS - ECS (*Fails*)
F SCS Supports F NPS - ECS (*Dislodged*)
F SuS Supports F Ceb - SSe
F Ara - BaS
F Ceb - SSe
A Luz - Man
F Tai Supports F SCS

Thailand:
F GTh - Tha(ec) (*Bounce*)
F MSe - Jav
F Sur Supports F MSe - Jav
F Sin Supports F MSe - Jav
F SpI - MSe
F Ked - MSt
A KBh - Tha (*Bounce*)
A KLu Supports F Sin (*Cut*)
A Bur Hold

Vietnam:
F ECS - NPS (*Fails*)
F SSe - SpI
F ViS Supports F Fuj - SCS
F Sai Supports F SpI - MSe
A HKo - Dav (*Fails*)
F Fuj - SCS
F Guz Supports F Fuj - SCS

works.

I was just trying to interject some humour... I am torn and we all have probably been on both sides of choices like this... Sucks yes, but part of the game and part of the duty of the GM's who graciously grant us their time to manage our games.

I jumping out of this debate now...


From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>

To: Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 1:59:35 PM

Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD




So we need to rely on a 3rd-party program, which Michael does not send out the .dpy files for, instead of using the map he does send, which does have abbreviations on it which are supposedly to be accepted? It definitely looks like HST, irrelevant of what the actual text name is.

Can you at least pls take the abbreviations off the map, if you're not going to allow the ones that are printed on it?

I guess I didnt look at the error initially, but this is silly to not accept an abbrev that's on the map that's sent out.
-mike



From: Rob Ackerley [mailto:rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:51 PM
To: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout; Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD


Cut and paste from RP Saves all the problems and is a lot less work too!


From: MICHAEL BOUTOT <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
To: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Cc: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 1:49:43 PM
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD

1 can clearly read Malacca Strait underneath the 3 letters in dispute. That alone makes it clear. The other earlier errors had the same conflict that should have raised a white flag.


--- On Mon, 2/9/09, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:

[quote:a55c227f58]From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: "Former Trout" <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: "Jason 4747" <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT" <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "158NewArchersJason Longbow" <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "209Australia Nick Cherrier" <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts" <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "209Vietnam Rob Ackerley" <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>, "DC101tGMStephen Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 11:24 AM
Yeah but you have to agree the map clearly looks like HST,
or certainly could be read that way. I mean if we cant rely
on the abbreviations on the map we're receiving from the
GM, then what can we rely on?

________________________________

From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:20 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason
Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob
Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley; DC101tGMStephen Lytton;
dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD


Personally I would allow the move as well. However, to be
fair to Michael, he identified WAY early at the beginning of
the game that he was going to be taking a strict
interpretation of the abbreviations. I almost had an order
disallowed because I didn't call the province the right
name - but luckily I included the correct abbreviation in
brackets...

Long story short, I'd say its the GMs call to make. =)

T.


On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Michael Sims
<mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:


MST and HST look identical in that font. Why are we not
allowing that move? It's not ambiguous, and the
lettering could be read as either one.
-mike


________________________________

From: Jason 4747 [mailto:jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 11:35 AM
To: 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason Longbow;
209Thailand Trout former.trout; 209Australia Nick Cherrier;
209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley;
Michael Sims
Cc: DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD


Mike,

To be fair, MSt almost equals HSt on my screen, but it is
no excuse for goegraphy stupidity on my part....

As for that and other error, kids, let it be a lesson to
you - multitasking just does not work. And just say no to
drugs.

Jason





[quote:a55c227f58]Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 18:46:41 -0800
From: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Subject: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email]); Githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]Githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email]);

CC: stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

I didn't think I'd see days like these

or WTi or CJa(nc).
Philippine F SCS can retreat to Luz.

Indonesia:
F And - Bur (*Fails*)
F TiS Supports F PHe - SIO
F Jav, no move received (*Dislodged*)
F PHe - SIO
F Jak Hold
F Med Hold
A Sab - Kuc
A Kuc - WKa

Malaysia:
F Bru Supports A Sab - Kuc
A Pah - KLu (*Fails*)

Philippines:
F NPS - ECS (*Fails*)
F SCS Supports F NPS - ECS (*Dislodged*)
F SuS Supports F Ceb - SSe
F Ara - BaS
F Ceb - SSe
A Luz - Man
F Tai Supports F SCS

Thailand:
F GTh - Tha(ec) (*Bounce*)
F MSe - Jav
F Sur Supports F MSe - Jav
F Sin Supports F MSe - Jav
F SpI - MSe
F Ked - MSt
A KBh - Tha (*Bounce*)
A KLu Supports F Sin (*Cut*)
A Bur Hold

Vietnam:
F ECS - NPS (*Fails*)
F SSe - SpI
F ViS Supports F Fuj - SCS
F Sai Supports F SpI - MSe
A HKo - Dav (*Fails*)
F Fuj - SCS
F Guz Supports F Fuj - SCS

From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: "Former Trout" <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: "Jason 4747" <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT" <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "158NewArchersJason Longbow" <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "209Australia Nick Cherrier" <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts" <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "209Vietnam Rob Ackerley" <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>, "DC101tGMStephen Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 11:24 AM
Yeah but you have to agree the map clearly looks like HST,
or certainly could be read that way. I mean if we cant rely
on the abbreviations on the map we're receiving from the
GM, then what can we rely on?

________________________________

From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:20 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason
Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob
Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley; DC101tGMStephen Lytton;
dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD


Personally I would allow the move as well. However, to be
fair to Michael, he identified WAY early at the beginning of
the game that he was going to be taking a strict
interpretation of the abbreviations. I almost had an order
disallowed because I didn't call the province the right
name - but luckily I included the correct abbreviation in
brackets...

Long story short, I'd say its the GMs call to make. =)

T.


On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Michael Sims
<mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:


MST and HST look identical in that font. Why are we not
allowing that move? It's not ambiguous, and the
lettering could be read as either one.
-mike


________________________________

From: Jason 4747 [mailto:jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 11:35 AM
To: 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason Longbow;
209Thailand Trout former.trout; 209Australia Nick Cherrier;
209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley;
Michael Sims
Cc: DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD


Mike,

To be fair, MSt almost equals HSt on my screen, but it is
no excuse for goegraphy stupidity on my part....

As for that and other error, kids, let it be a lesson to
you - multitasking just does not work. And just say no to
drugs.

Jason





[quote:cebe04216c]Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 18:46:41 -0800
From: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Subject: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email]); Githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]Githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email]);

CC: stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

I didn't think I'd see days like these

or WTi or CJa(nc).
Philippine F SCS can retreat to Luz.

Indonesia:
F And - Bur (*Fails*)
F TiS Supports F PHe - SIO
F Jav, no move received (*Dislodged*)
F PHe - SIO
F Jak Hold
F Med Hold
A Sab - Kuc
A Kuc - WKa

Malaysia:
F Bru Supports A Sab - Kuc
A Pah - KLu (*Fails*)

Philippines:
F NPS - ECS (*Fails*)
F SCS Supports F NPS - ECS (*Dislodged*)
F SuS Supports F Ceb - SSe
F Ara - BaS
F Ceb - SSe
A Luz - Man
F Tai Supports F SCS

Thailand:
F GTh - Tha(ec) (*Bounce*)
F MSe - Jav
F Sur Supports F MSe - Jav
F Sin Supports F MSe - Jav
F SpI - MSe
F Ked - MSt
A KBh - Tha (*Bounce*)
A KLu Supports F Sin (*Cut*)
A Bur Hold

Vietnam:
F ECS - NPS (*Fails*)
F SSe - SpI
F ViS Supports F Fuj - SCS
F Sai Supports F SpI - MSe
A HKo - Dav (*Fails*)
F Fuj - SCS
F Guz Supports F Fuj - SCS

I know you were, and it was amusing, and it does exemplify the fact that using an unrelated 3rd party app we'd be correct, but using the maps our gm sends out, we'd get misorders. (it was also nice to get an email from you Rob, I think this conversation has resulted in us doubling our total communique in this game thus far! :-p)


From: Rob Ackerley [mailto:rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])]

Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 2:07 PM
To: Michael Sims; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout

Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD





I was just trying to interject some humour... I am torn and we all have probably been on both sides of choices like this... Sucks yes, but part of the game and part of the duty of the GM's who graciously grant us their time to manage our games.

I jumping out of this debate now...


From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
To: Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 1:59:35 PM
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD

So we need to rely on a 3rd-party program, which Michael does not send out the .dpy files for, instead of using the map he does send, which does have abbreviations on it which are supposedly to be accepted? It definitely looks like HST, irrelevant of what the actual text name is.

Can you at least pls take the abbreviations off the map, if you're not going to allow the ones that are printed on it?

I guess I didnt look at the error initially, but this is silly to not accept an abbrev that's on the map that's sent out.
-mike



From: Rob Ackerley [mailto:rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:51 PM
To: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout; Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD


Cut and paste from RP Saves all the problems and is a lot less work too!


From: MICHAEL BOUTOT <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
To: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Cc: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 1:49:43 PM
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD

1 can clearly read Malacca Strait underneath the 3 letters in dispute. That alone makes it clear. The other earlier errors had the same conflict that should have raised a white flag.


--- On Mon, 2/9/09, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:

[quote:f6b157ea3e]From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: "Former Trout" <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: "Jason 4747" <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT" <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "158NewArchersJason Longbow" <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "209Australia Nick Cherrier" <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts" <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "209Vietnam Rob Ackerley" <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>, "DC101tGMStephen Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 11:24 AM
Yeah but you have to agree the map clearly looks like HST,
or certainly could be read that way. I mean if we cant rely
on the abbreviations on the map we're receiving from the
GM, then what can we rely on?

________________________________

From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:20 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason
Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob
Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley; DC101tGMStephen Lytton;
dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD


Personally I would allow the move as well. However, to be
fair to Michael, he identified WAY early at the beginning of
the game that he was going to be taking a strict
interpretation of the abbreviations. I almost had an order
disallowed because I didn't call the province the right
name - but luckily I included the correct abbreviation in
brackets...

Long story short, I'd say its the GMs call to make. =)

T.


On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Michael Sims
<mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:


MST and HST look identical in that font. Why are we not
allowing that move? It's not ambiguous, and the
lettering could be read as either one.
-mike


________________________________

From: Jason 4747 [mailto:jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 11:35 AM
To: 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason Longbow;
209Thailand Trout former.trout; 209Australia Nick Cherrier;
209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley;
Michael Sims
Cc: DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD


Mike,

To be fair, MSt almost equals HSt on my screen, but it is
no excuse for goegraphy stupidity on my part....

As for that and other error, kids, let it be a lesson to
you - multitasking just does not work. And just say no to
drugs.

Jason





[quote:f6b157ea3e]Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 18:46:41 -0800
From: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Subject: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email]); Githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]Githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email]);

CC: stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

I didn't think I'd see days like these

or WTi or CJa(nc).
Philippine F SCS can retreat to Luz.

Indonesia:
F And - Bur (*Fails*)
F TiS Supports F PHe - SIO
F Jav, no move received (*Dislodged*)
F PHe - SIO
F Jak Hold
F Med Hold
A Sab - Kuc
A Kuc - WKa

Malaysia:
F Bru Supports A Sab - Kuc
A Pah - KLu (*Fails*)

Philippines:
F NPS - ECS (*Fails*)
F SCS Supports F NPS - ECS (*Dislodged*)
F SuS Supports F Ceb - SSe
F Ara - BaS
F Ceb - SSe
A Luz - Man
F Tai Supports F SCS

Thailand:
F GTh - Tha(ec) (*Bounce*)
F MSe - Jav
F Sur Supports F MSe - Jav
F Sin Supports F MSe - Jav
F SpI - MSe
F Ked - MSt
A KBh - Tha (*Bounce*)
A KLu Supports F Sin (*Cut*)
A Bur Hold

Vietnam:
F ECS - NPS (*Fails*)
F SSe - SpI
F ViS Supports F Fuj - SCS
F Sai Supports F SpI - MSe
A HKo - Dav (*Fails*)
F Fuj - SCS
F Guz Supports F Fuj - SCS

I know you were, and it was amusing, and it does exemplify the fact that using an unrelated 3rd party app we'd be correct, but using the maps our gm sends out, we'd get misorders. (it was also nice to get an email from you Rob, I think this conversation has resulted in us doubling our total communique in this game thus far! :-p)


From: Rob Ackerley [mailto:rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])]

Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 2:07 PM
To: Michael Sims; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout

Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD





I was just trying to interject some humour... I am torn and we all have probably been on both sides of choices like this... Sucks yes, but part of the game and part of the duty of the GM's who graciously grant us their time to manage our games.

I jumping out of this debate now...


From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
To: Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 1:59:35 PM
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD

So we need to rely on a 3rd-party program, which Michael does not send out the .dpy files for, instead of using the map he does send, which does have abbreviations on it which are supposedly to be accepted? It definitely looks like HST, irrelevant of what the actual text name is.

Can you at least pls take the abbreviations off the map, if you're not going to allow the ones that are printed on it?

I guess I didnt look at the error initially, but this is silly to not accept an abbrev that's on the map that's sent out.
-mike



From: Rob Ackerley [mailto:rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:51 PM
To: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout; Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD


Cut and paste from RP Saves all the problems and is a lot less work too!


From: MICHAEL BOUTOT <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
To: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Cc: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 1:49:43 PM
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD

1 can clearly read Malacca Strait underneath the 3 letters in dispute. That alone makes it clear. The other earlier errors had the same conflict that should have raised a white flag.


--- On Mon, 2/9/09, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:

[quote:4f6bf6e59e]From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: "Former Trout" <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: "Jason 4747" <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT" <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "158NewArchersJason Longbow" <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "209Australia Nick Cherrier" <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts" <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "209Vietnam Rob Ackerley" <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>, "DC101tGMStephen Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 11:24 AM
Yeah but you have to agree the map clearly looks like HST,
or certainly could be read that way. I mean if we cant rely
on the abbreviations on the map we're receiving from the
GM, then what can we rely on?

________________________________

From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:20 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason
Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob
Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley; DC101tGMStephen Lytton;
dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD


Personally I would allow the move as well. However, to be
fair to Michael, he identified WAY early at the beginning of
the game that he was going to be taking a strict
interpretation of the abbreviations. I almost had an order
disallowed because I didn't call the province the right
name - but luckily I included the correct abbreviation in
brackets...

Long story short, I'd say its the GMs call to make. =)

T.


On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Michael Sims
<mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:


MST and HST look identical in that font. Why are we not
allowing that move? It's not ambiguous, and the
lettering could be read as either one.
-mike


________________________________

From: Jason 4747 [mailto:jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 11:35 AM
To: 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason Longbow;
209Thailand Trout former.trout; 209Australia Nick Cherrier;
209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley;
Michael Sims
Cc: DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD


Mike,

To be fair, MSt almost equals HSt on my screen, but it is
no excuse for goegraphy stupidity on my part....

As for that and other error, kids, let it be a lesson to
you - multitasking just does not work. And just say no to
drugs.

Jason





[quote:4f6bf6e59e]Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 18:46:41 -0800
From: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Subject: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email]); Githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]Githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email]);

CC: stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

I didn't think I'd see days like these

or WTi or CJa(nc).
Philippine F SCS can retreat to Luz.

Indonesia:
F And - Bur (*Fails*)
F TiS Supports F PHe - SIO
F Jav, no move received (*Dislodged*)
F PHe - SIO
F Jak Hold
F Med Hold
A Sab - Kuc
A Kuc - WKa

Malaysia:
F Bru Supports A Sab - Kuc
A Pah - KLu (*Fails*)

Philippines:
F NPS - ECS (*Fails*)
F SCS Supports F NPS - ECS (*Dislodged*)
F SuS Supports F Ceb - SSe
F Ara - BaS
F Ceb - SSe
A Luz - Man
F Tai Supports F SCS

Thailand:
F GTh - Tha(ec) (*Bounce*)
F MSe - Jav
F Sur Supports F MSe - Jav
F Sin Supports F MSe - Jav
F SpI - MSe
F Ked - MSt
A KBh - Tha (*Bounce*)
A KLu Supports F Sin (*Cut*)
A Bur Hold

Vietnam:
F ECS - NPS (*Fails*)
F SSe - SpI
F ViS Supports F Fuj - SCS
F Sai Supports F SpI - MSe
A HKo - Dav (*Fails*)
F Fuj - SCS
F Guz Supports F Fuj - SCS

Point? That a player wrote an order, using the letters printed on the map, which as best I can tell by actually looking at the map the M and the H are indistinguishable, yet it was misordered. The order was not ambiguous - if there was another space nearby that was HST, then MST and HST need to be different. But given that's how it's labeled, I see no reason not to accept it. But I guess there's no point, and it's in your best interest to see to it that nothing is changed, but I did want to voice that it was a challengeable ruling, and so I challenged it. Er seconded Jason's challenge rather. Am I not entitled to challenge a ruling? Michael has made his statement, doesnt mean I cant point out that a player used the abbreviation printed on the map, and that was misordered cuz apparently we're supposed to make up our own abbreviation based on the textual wording which only exists on some of the provinces. Because you did get it right, I'll give you a pat on the back for that. I never suggested invalidating your order.


From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]

Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 3:01 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Rob Ackerley; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD





I don't know if I buy that argument. I used the same map that the GM sent out and ordered to the same spot. Somehow I managed to get the correct abbreviation...

What exactly is the point of all of this, Mike? Again - I don't know if I agree with the call made by the GM, but it is definitely HIS call to make...


T.

On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 1:28 PM, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:f8412ebb61] I know you were, and it was amusing, and it does exemplify the fact that using an unrelated 3rd party app we'd be correct, but using the maps our gm sends out, we'd get misorders. (it was also nice to get an email from you Rob, I think this conversation has resulted in us doubling our total communique in this game thus far! :-p)


From: Rob Ackerley [mailto:rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])]

Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 2:07 PM
To: Michael Sims; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout

Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD





I was just trying to interject some humour... I am torn and we all have probably been on both sides of choices like this... Sucks yes, but part of the game and part of the duty of the GM's who graciously grant us their time to manage our games.

I jumping out of this debate now...


From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
To: Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 1:59:35 PM
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD

So we need to rely on a 3rd-party program, which Michael does not send out the .dpy files for, instead of using the map he does send, which does have abbreviations on it which are supposedly to be accepted? It definitely looks like HST, irrelevant of what the actual text name is.

Can you at least pls take the abbreviations off the map, if you're not going to allow the ones that are printed on it?

I guess I didnt look at the error initially, but this is silly to not accept an abbrev that's on the map that's sent out.
-mike



From: Rob Ackerley [mailto:rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:51 PM
To: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout; Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD


Cut and paste from RP Saves all the problems and is a lot less work too!


From: MICHAEL BOUTOT <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
To: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Cc: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 1:49:43 PM
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD

1 can clearly read Malacca Strait underneath the 3 letters in dispute. That alone makes it clear. The other earlier errors had the same conflict that should have raised a white flag.


--- On Mon, 2/9/09, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:

[quote:f8412ebb61]From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: "Former Trout" <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: "Jason 4747" <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT" <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "158NewArchersJason Longbow" <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "209Australia Nick Cherrier" <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts" <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "209Vietnam Rob Ackerley" <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>, "DC101tGMStephen Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 11:24 AM
Yeah but you have to agree the map clearly looks like HST,
or certainly could be read that way. I mean if we cant rely
on the abbreviations on the map we're receiving from the
GM, then what can we rely on?

________________________________

From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:20 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason
Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob
Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley; DC101tGMStephen Lytton;
dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD


Personally I would allow the move as well. However, to be
fair to Michael, he identified WAY early at the beginning of
the game that he was going to be taking a strict
interpretation of the abbreviations. I almost had an order
disallowed because I didn't call the province the right
name - but luckily I included the correct abbreviation in
brackets...

Long story short, I'd say its the GMs call to make. =)

T.


On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Michael Sims
<mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:


MST and HST look identical in that font. Why are we not
allowing that move? It's not ambiguous, and the
lettering could be read as either one.
-mike


________________________________

From: Jason 4747 [mailto:jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 11:35 AM
To: 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason Longbow;
209Thailand Trout former.trout; 209Australia Nick Cherrier;
209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley;
Michael Sims
Cc: DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD


Mike,

To be fair, MSt almost equals HSt on my screen, but it is
no excuse for goegraphy stupidity on my part....

As for that and other error, kids, let it be a lesson to
you - multitasking just does not work. And just say no to
drugs.

Jason





[quote:f8412ebb61]Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 18:46:41 -0800
From: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Subject: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email]); Githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]Githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email]);

CC: stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

I didn't think I'd see days like these

or WTi or CJa(nc).
Philippine F SCS can retreat to Luz.

Indonesia:
F And - Bur (*Fails*)
F TiS Supports F PHe - SIO
F Jav, no move received (*Dislodged*)
F PHe - SIO
F Jak Hold
F Med Hold
A Sab - Kuc
A Kuc - WKa

Malaysia:
F Bru Supports A Sab - Kuc
A Pah - KLu (*Fails*)

Philippines:
F NPS - ECS (*Fails*)
F SCS Supports F NPS - ECS (*Dislodged*)
F SuS Supports F Ceb - SSe
F Ara - BaS
F Ceb - SSe
A Luz - Man
F Tai Supports F SCS

Thailand:
F GTh - Tha(ec) (*Bounce*)
F MSe - Jav
F Sur Supports F MSe - Jav
F Sin Supports F MSe - Jav
F SpI - MSe
F Ked - MSt
A KBh - Tha (*Bounce*)
A KLu Supports F Sin (*Cut*)
A Bur Hold

Vietnam:
F ECS - NPS (*Fails*)
F SSe - SpI
F ViS Supports F Fuj - SCS
F Sai Supports F SpI - MSe
A HKo - Dav (*Fails*)
F Fuj - SCS
F Guz Supports F Fuj - SCS

Point? That a player wrote an order, using the letters printed on the map, which as best I can tell by actually looking at the map the M and the H are indistinguishable, yet it was misordered. The order was not ambiguous - if there was another space nearby that was HST, then MST and HST need to be different. But given that's how it's labeled, I see no reason not to accept it. But I guess there's no point, and it's in your best interest to see to it that nothing is changed, but I did want to voice that it was a challengeable ruling, and so I challenged it. Er seconded Jason's challenge rather. Am I not entitled to challenge a ruling? Michael has made his statement, doesnt mean I cant point out that a player used the abbreviation printed on the map, and that was misordered cuz apparently we're supposed to make up our own abbreviation based on the textual wording which only exists on some of the provinces. Because you did get it right, I'll give you a pat on the back for that. I never suggested invalidating your order.


From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]

Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 3:01 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Rob Ackerley; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD





I don't know if I buy that argument. I used the same map that the GM sent out and ordered to the same spot. Somehow I managed to get the correct abbreviation...

What exactly is the point of all of this, Mike? Again - I don't know if I agree with the call made by the GM, but it is definitely HIS call to make...


T.

On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 1:28 PM, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:b67ee9c41f] I know you were, and it was amusing, and it does exemplify the fact that using an unrelated 3rd party app we'd be correct, but using the maps our gm sends out, we'd get misorders. (it was also nice to get an email from you Rob, I think this conversation has resulted in us doubling our total communique in this game thus far! :-p)


From: Rob Ackerley [mailto:rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])]

Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 2:07 PM
To: Michael Sims; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout

Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD





I was just trying to interject some humour... I am torn and we all have probably been on both sides of choices like this... Sucks yes, but part of the game and part of the duty of the GM's who graciously grant us their time to manage our games.

I jumping out of this debate now...


From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
To: Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 1:59:35 PM
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD

So we need to rely on a 3rd-party program, which Michael does not send out the .dpy files for, instead of using the map he does send, which does have abbreviations on it which are supposedly to be accepted? It definitely looks like HST, irrelevant of what the actual text name is.

Can you at least pls take the abbreviations off the map, if you're not going to allow the ones that are printed on it?

I guess I didnt look at the error initially, but this is silly to not accept an abbrev that's on the map that's sent out.
-mike



From: Rob Ackerley [mailto:rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:51 PM
To: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout; Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD


Cut and paste from RP Saves all the problems and is a lot less work too!


From: MICHAEL BOUTOT <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
To: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Cc: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 1:49:43 PM
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD

1 can clearly read Malacca Strait underneath the 3 letters in dispute. That alone makes it clear. The other earlier errors had the same conflict that should have raised a white flag.


--- On Mon, 2/9/09, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:

[quote:b67ee9c41f]From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: "Former Trout" <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: "Jason 4747" <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT" <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "158NewArchersJason Longbow" <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "209Australia Nick Cherrier" <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts" <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "209Vietnam Rob Ackerley" <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>, "DC101tGMStephen Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 11:24 AM
Yeah but you have to agree the map clearly looks like HST,
or certainly could be read that way. I mean if we cant rely
on the abbreviations on the map we're receiving from the
GM, then what can we rely on?

________________________________

From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:20 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason
Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob
Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley; DC101tGMStephen Lytton;
dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD


Personally I would allow the move as well. However, to be
fair to Michael, he identified WAY early at the beginning of
the game that he was going to be taking a strict
interpretation of the abbreviations. I almost had an order
disallowed because I didn't call the province the right
name - but luckily I included the correct abbreviation in
brackets...

Long story short, I'd say its the GMs call to make. =)

T.


On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Michael Sims
<mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:


MST and HST look identical in that font. Why are we not
allowing that move? It's not ambiguous, and the
lettering could be read as either one.
-mike


________________________________

From: Jason 4747 [mailto:jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 11:35 AM
To: 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason Longbow;
209Thailand Trout former.trout; 209Australia Nick Cherrier;
209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley;
Michael Sims
Cc: DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD


Mike,

To be fair, MSt almost equals HSt on my screen, but it is
no excuse for goegraphy stupidity on my part....

As for that and other error, kids, let it be a lesson to
you - multitasking just does not work. And just say no to
drugs.

Jason





[quote:b67ee9c41f]Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 18:46:41 -0800
From: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Subject: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email]); Githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]Githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email]);

CC: stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

I didn't think I'd see days like these

or WTi or CJa(nc).
Philippine F SCS can retreat to Luz.

Indonesia:
F And - Bur (*Fails*)
F TiS Supports F PHe - SIO
F Jav, no move received (*Dislodged*)
F PHe - SIO
F Jak Hold
F Med Hold
A Sab - Kuc
A Kuc - WKa

Malaysia:
F Bru Supports A Sab - Kuc
A Pah - KLu (*Fails*)

Philippines:
F NPS - ECS (*Fails*)
F SCS Supports F NPS - ECS (*Dislodged*)
F SuS Supports F Ceb - SSe
F Ara - BaS
F Ceb - SSe
A Luz - Man
F Tai Supports F SCS

Thailand:
F GTh - Tha(ec) (*Bounce*)
F MSe - Jav
F Sur Supports F MSe - Jav
F Sin Supports F MSe - Jav
F SpI - MSe
F Ked - MSt
A KBh - Tha (*Bounce*)
A KLu Supports F Sin (*Cut*)
A Bur Hold

Vietnam:
F ECS - NPS (*Fails*)
F SSe - SpI
F ViS Supports F Fuj - SCS
F Sai Supports F SpI - MSe
A HKo - Dav (*Fails*)
F Fuj - SCS
F Guz Supports F Fuj - SCS

Are you serious??

The rule ALSO says:

The GM will accept all reasonable abbreviations. However if an order is unclear and not clarified by the deadline, the order will be declared void and the unit will hold. Abbreviations that could be applied to more than one space on the map (such as NOR and LIV) should be avoided. EG Lvp or Liverpool for Liverpool and Lvn or Livonia or Livonia.

"The GM will accept all reasonable abbreviations". That is blatantly clear!

Is this a "reasonable abbreviation"? Well it's on the map, it looks like HST to me. I would say it counts as "reasonable", as in it can be reasoned that that space would be HST by the writing on the map.

Is the order unclear? Well could HST be anything else on the map? Let's look at the map. Nope... there it is. Right there, one space. Even labeled HST (or is it MST? I cant tell)

If you're going to suggest we follow the rules, then I think there is absolutely no grounded case to say HST should fail!

I am not trying to pressure anyone. Tho you seem to think we should not even discuss it like gentlemen. Other players were even joking about it. I would say there is no pressure, just bewilderment as to why the above rule is not being applied, when it seems very appropriate that HST is not ambiguous, can not be mistaken for anywhere else, and it's LABELED ON THE MAP as such, in such a bad font, that one cant possibly tell if it's HST or MST. And the rules of the game clearly state The GM will accept all reasonable abbreviations. So it fails???

Come on Trout you usually stand up for following the rules... this is a weird position for you to take.

-mike



From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]

Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 3:34 PM

To: Michael Sims
Cc: Rob Ackerley; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD





I'll ignore the inflammatory stuff in this email and just focus on the pertinent detail.

Michael uses the default DC house rules, according to the game page. Point 4 of those HRs - (which YOU helped write might I add) state:


As always in all DC games, the GM of the game has the final say and final decision on all matters relating to the game, whether they are covered in the rules or not


What I think of the decision, or what you think of the decision is frankly irrelevent. Michael made the call, based on player questions reconsidered it, and then kept with the original ruling.


For the record, I would have had no problem bouncing in MST if Michael had reversed his decision. BUT - I DO have a problem with a player attempting to loudly pressure the GM into doing so. Especially when that player knows better.


Trout




On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 2:11 PM, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:

[quote:95b76770da] Point? That a player wrote an order, using the letters printed on the map, which as best I can tell by actually looking at the map the M and the H are indistinguishable, yet it was misordered. The order was not ambiguous - if there was another space nearby that was HST, then MST and HST need to be different. But given that's how it's labeled, I see no reason not to accept it. But I guess there's no point, and it's in your best interest to see to it that nothing is changed, but I did want to voice that it was a challengeable ruling, and so I challenged it. Er seconded Jason's challenge rather. Am I not entitled to challenge a ruling? Michael has made his statement, doesnt mean I cant point out that a player used the abbreviation printed on the map, and that was misordered cuz apparently we're supposed to make up our own abbreviation based on the textual wording which only exists on some of the provinces. Because you did get it right, I'll give you a pat on the back for that. I never suggested invalidating your order.


From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]

Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 3:01 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Rob Ackerley; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD





I don't know if I buy that argument. I used the same map that the GM sent out and ordered to the same spot. Somehow I managed to get the correct abbreviation...

What exactly is the point of all of this, Mike? Again - I don't know if I agree with the call made by the GM, but it is definitely HIS call to make...


T.

On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 1:28 PM, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:95b76770da] I know you were, and it was amusing, and it does exemplify the fact that using an unrelated 3rd party app we'd be correct, but using the maps our gm sends out, we'd get misorders. (it was also nice to get an email from you Rob, I think this conversation has resulted in us doubling our total communique in this game thus far! :-p)


From: Rob Ackerley [mailto:rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])]

Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 2:07 PM
To: Michael Sims; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout

Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD





I was just trying to interject some humour... I am torn and we all have probably been on both sides of choices like this... Sucks yes, but part of the game and part of the duty of the GM's who graciously grant us their time to manage our games.

I jumping out of this debate now...


From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
To: Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 1:59:35 PM
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD

So we need to rely on a 3rd-party program, which Michael does not send out the .dpy files for, instead of using the map he does send, which does have abbreviations on it which are supposedly to be accepted? It definitely looks like HST, irrelevant of what the actual text name is.

Can you at least pls take the abbreviations off the map, if you're not going to allow the ones that are printed on it?

I guess I didnt look at the error initially, but this is silly to not accept an abbrev that's on the map that's sent out.
-mike



From: Rob Ackerley [mailto:rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:51 PM
To: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout; Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD


Cut and paste from RP Saves all the problems and is a lot less work too!


From: MICHAEL BOUTOT <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
To: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Cc: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 1:49:43 PM
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD

1 can clearly read Malacca Strait underneath the 3 letters in dispute. That alone makes it clear. The other earlier errors had the same conflict that should have raised a white flag.


--- On Mon, 2/9/09, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:

[quote:95b76770da]From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: "Former Trout" <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: "Jason 4747" <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT" <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "158NewArchersJason Longbow" <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "209Australia Nick Cherrier" <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts" <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "209Vietnam Rob Ackerley" <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>, "DC101tGMStephen Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 11:24 AM
Yeah but you have to agree the map clearly looks like HST,
or certainly could be read that way. I mean if we cant rely
on the abbreviations on the map we're receiving from the
GM, then what can we rely on?

________________________________

From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:20 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason
Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob
Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley; DC101tGMStephen Lytton;
dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD


Personally I would allow the move as well. However, to be
fair to Michael, he identified WAY early at the beginning of
the game that he was going to be taking a strict
interpretation of the abbreviations. I almost had an order
disallowed because I didn't call the province the right
name - but luckily I included the correct abbreviation in
brackets...

Long story short, I'd say its the GMs call to make. =)

T.


On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Michael Sims
<mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:


MST and HST look identical in that font. Why are we not
allowing that move? It's not ambiguous, and the
lettering could be read as either one.
-mike


________________________________

From: Jason 4747 [mailto:jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 11:35 AM
To: 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason Longbow;
209Thailand Trout former.trout; 209Australia Nick Cherrier;
209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley;
Michael Sims
Cc: DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD


Mike,

To be fair, MSt almost equals HSt on my screen, but it is
no excuse for goegraphy stupidity on my part....

As for that and other error, kids, let it be a lesson to
you - multitasking just does not work. And just say no to
drugs.

Jason





[quote:95b76770da]Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 18:46:41 -0800
From: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Subject: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email]); Githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]Githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email]);

CC: stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

I didn't think I'd see days like these

or WTi or CJa(nc).
Philippine F SCS can retreat to Luz.

Indonesia:
F And - Bur (*Fails*)
F TiS Supports F PHe - SIO
F Jav, no move received (*Dislodged*)
F PHe - SIO
F Jak Hold
F Med Hold
A Sab - Kuc
A Kuc - WKa

Malaysia:
F Bru Supports A Sab - Kuc
A Pah - KLu (*Fails*)

Philippines:
F NPS - ECS (*Fails*)
F SCS Supports F NPS - ECS (*Dislodged*)
F SuS Supports F Ceb - SSe
F Ara - BaS
F Ceb - SSe
A Luz - Man
F Tai Supports F SCS

Thailand:
F GTh - Tha(ec) (*Bounce*)
F MSe - Jav
F Sur Supports F MSe - Jav
F Sin Supports F MSe - Jav
F SpI - MSe
F Ked - MSt
A KBh - Tha (*Bounce*)
A KLu Supports F Sin (*Cut*)
A Bur Hold

Vietnam:
F ECS - NPS (*Fails*)
F SSe - SpI
F ViS Supports F Fuj - SCS
F Sai Supports F SpI - MSe
A HKo - Dav (*Fails*)
F Fuj - SCS
F Guz Supports F Fuj - SCS

Are you serious??

The rule ALSO says:

The GM will accept all reasonable abbreviations. However if an order is unclear and not clarified by the deadline, the order will be declared void and the unit will hold. Abbreviations that could be applied to more than one space on the map (such as NOR and LIV) should be avoided. EG Lvp or Liverpool for Liverpool and Lvn or Livonia or Livonia.

"The GM will accept all reasonable abbreviations". That is blatantly clear!

Is this a "reasonable abbreviation"? Well it's on the map, it looks like HST to me. I would say it counts as "reasonable", as in it can be reasoned that that space would be HST by the writing on the map.

Is the order unclear? Well could HST be anything else on the map? Let's look at the map. Nope... there it is. Right there, one space. Even labeled HST (or is it MST? I cant tell)

If you're going to suggest we follow the rules, then I think there is absolutely no grounded case to say HST should fail!

I am not trying to pressure anyone. Tho you seem to think we should not even discuss it like gentlemen. Other players were even joking about it. I would say there is no pressure, just bewilderment as to why the above rule is not being applied, when it seems very appropriate that HST is not ambiguous, can not be mistaken for anywhere else, and it's LABELED ON THE MAP as such, in such a bad font, that one cant possibly tell if it's HST or MST. And the rules of the game clearly state The GM will accept all reasonable abbreviations. So it fails???

Come on Trout you usually stand up for following the rules... this is a weird position for you to take.

-mike



From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]

Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 3:34 PM

To: Michael Sims
Cc: Rob Ackerley; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD





I'll ignore the inflammatory stuff in this email and just focus on the pertinent detail.

Michael uses the default DC house rules, according to the game page. Point 4 of those HRs - (which YOU helped write might I add) state:


As always in all DC games, the GM of the game has the final say and final decision on all matters relating to the game, whether they are covered in the rules or not


What I think of the decision, or what you think of the decision is frankly irrelevent. Michael made the call, based on player questions reconsidered it, and then kept with the original ruling.


For the record, I would have had no problem bouncing in MST if Michael had reversed his decision. BUT - I DO have a problem with a player attempting to loudly pressure the GM into doing so. Especially when that player knows better.


Trout




On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 2:11 PM, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:

[quote:76315721ce] Point? That a player wrote an order, using the letters printed on the map, which as best I can tell by actually looking at the map the M and the H are indistinguishable, yet it was misordered. The order was not ambiguous - if there was another space nearby that was HST, then MST and HST need to be different. But given that's how it's labeled, I see no reason not to accept it. But I guess there's no point, and it's in your best interest to see to it that nothing is changed, but I did want to voice that it was a challengeable ruling, and so I challenged it. Er seconded Jason's challenge rather. Am I not entitled to challenge a ruling? Michael has made his statement, doesnt mean I cant point out that a player used the abbreviation printed on the map, and that was misordered cuz apparently we're supposed to make up our own abbreviation based on the textual wording which only exists on some of the provinces. Because you did get it right, I'll give you a pat on the back for that. I never suggested invalidating your order.


From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]

Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 3:01 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Rob Ackerley; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD





I don't know if I buy that argument. I used the same map that the GM sent out and ordered to the same spot. Somehow I managed to get the correct abbreviation...

What exactly is the point of all of this, Mike? Again - I don't know if I agree with the call made by the GM, but it is definitely HIS call to make...


T.

On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 1:28 PM, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:76315721ce] I know you were, and it was amusing, and it does exemplify the fact that using an unrelated 3rd party app we'd be correct, but using the maps our gm sends out, we'd get misorders. (it was also nice to get an email from you Rob, I think this conversation has resulted in us doubling our total communique in this game thus far! :-p)


From: Rob Ackerley [mailto:rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])]

Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 2:07 PM
To: Michael Sims; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout

Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD





I was just trying to interject some humour... I am torn and we all have probably been on both sides of choices like this... Sucks yes, but part of the game and part of the duty of the GM's who graciously grant us their time to manage our games.

I jumping out of this debate now...


From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
To: Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 1:59:35 PM
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD

So we need to rely on a 3rd-party program, which Michael does not send out the .dpy files for, instead of using the map he does send, which does have abbreviations on it which are supposedly to be accepted? It definitely looks like HST, irrelevant of what the actual text name is.

Can you at least pls take the abbreviations off the map, if you're not going to allow the ones that are printed on it?

I guess I didnt look at the error initially, but this is silly to not accept an abbrev that's on the map that's sent out.
-mike



From: Rob Ackerley [mailto:rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:51 PM
To: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout; Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD


Cut and paste from RP Saves all the problems and is a lot less work too!


From: MICHAEL BOUTOT <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
To: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Cc: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 1:49:43 PM
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD

1 can clearly read Malacca Strait underneath the 3 letters in dispute. That alone makes it clear. The other earlier errors had the same conflict that should have raised a white flag.


--- On Mon, 2/9/09, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:

[quote:76315721ce]From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: "Former Trout" <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: "Jason 4747" <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT" <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "158NewArchersJason Longbow" <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "209Australia Nick Cherrier" <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts" <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "209Vietnam Rob Ackerley" <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>, "DC101tGMStephen Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 11:24 AM
Yeah but you have to agree the map clearly looks like HST,
or certainly could be read that way. I mean if we cant rely
on the abbreviations on the map we're receiving from the
GM, then what can we rely on?

________________________________

From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:20 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason
Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob
Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley; DC101tGMStephen Lytton;
dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD


Personally I would allow the move as well. However, to be
fair to Michael, he identified WAY early at the beginning of
the game that he was going to be taking a strict
interpretation of the abbreviations. I almost had an order
disallowed because I didn't call the province the right
name - but luckily I included the correct abbreviation in
brackets...

Long story short, I'd say its the GMs call to make. =)

T.


On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Michael Sims
<mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:


MST and HST look identical in that font. Why are we not
allowing that move? It's not ambiguous, and the
lettering could be read as either one.
-mike


________________________________

From: Jason 4747 [mailto:jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 11:35 AM
To: 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason Longbow;
209Thailand Trout former.trout; 209Australia Nick Cherrier;
209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley;
Michael Sims
Cc: DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD


Mike,

To be fair, MSt almost equals HSt on my screen, but it is
no excuse for goegraphy stupidity on my part....

As for that and other error, kids, let it be a lesson to
you - multitasking just does not work. And just say no to
drugs.

Jason





[quote:76315721ce]Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 18:46:41 -0800
From: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Subject: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email]); Githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]Githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email]);

CC: stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

I didn't think I'd see days like these

or WTi or CJa(nc).
Philippine F SCS can retreat to Luz.

Indonesia:
F And - Bur (*Fails*)
F TiS Supports F PHe - SIO
F Jav, no move received (*Dislodged*)
F PHe - SIO
F Jak Hold
F Med Hold
A Sab - Kuc
A Kuc - WKa

Malaysia:
F Bru Supports A Sab - Kuc
A Pah - KLu (*Fails*)

Philippines:
F NPS - ECS (*Fails*)
F SCS Supports F NPS - ECS (*Dislodged*)
F SuS Supports F Ceb - SSe
F Ara - BaS
F Ceb - SSe
A Luz - Man
F Tai Supports F SCS

Thailand:
F GTh - Tha(ec) (*Bounce*)
F MSe - Jav
F Sur Supports F MSe - Jav
F Sin Supports F MSe - Jav
F SpI - MSe
F Ked - MSt
A KBh - Tha (*Bounce*)
A KLu Supports F Sin (*Cut*)
A Bur Hold

Vietnam:
F ECS - NPS (*Fails*)
F SSe - SpI
F ViS Supports F Fuj - SCS
F Sai Supports F SpI - MSe
A HKo - Dav (*Fails*)
F Fuj - SCS
F Guz Supports F Fuj - SCS

Are you serious??

The rule ALSO says:

The GM will accept all reasonable abbreviations. However if an order is unclear and not clarified by the deadline, the order will be declared void and the unit will hold. Abbreviations that could be applied to more than one space on the map (such as NOR and LIV) should be avoided. EG Lvp or Liverpool for Liverpool and Lvn or Livonia or Livonia.

"The GM will accept all reasonable abbreviations". That is blatantly clear!

Is this a "reasonable abbreviation"? Well it's on the map, it looks like HST to me. I would say it counts as "reasonable", as in it can be reasoned that that space would be HST by the writing on the map.

Is the order unclear? Well could HST be anything else on the map? Let's look at the map. Nope... there it is. Right there, one space. Even labeled HST (or is it MST? I cant tell)

If you're going to suggest we follow the rules, then I think there is absolutely no grounded case to say HST should fail!

I am not trying to pressure anyone. Tho you seem to think we should not even discuss it like gentlemen. Other players were even joking about it. I would say there is no pressure, just bewilderment as to why the above rule is not being applied, when it seems very appropriate that HST is not ambiguous, can not be mistaken for anywhere else, and it's LABELED ON THE MAP as such, in such a bad font, that one cant possibly tell if it's HST or MST. And the rules of the game clearly state The GM will accept all reasonable abbreviations. So it fails???

Come on Trout you usually stand up for following the rules... this is a weird position for you to take.

-mike



From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]

Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 3:34 PM

To: Michael Sims
Cc: Rob Ackerley; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD





I'll ignore the inflammatory stuff in this email and just focus on the pertinent detail.

Michael uses the default DC house rules, according to the game page. Point 4 of those HRs - (which YOU helped write might I add) state:


As always in all DC games, the GM of the game has the final say and final decision on all matters relating to the game, whether they are covered in the rules or not


What I think of the decision, or what you think of the decision is frankly irrelevent. Michael made the call, based on player questions reconsidered it, and then kept with the original ruling.


For the record, I would have had no problem bouncing in MST if Michael had reversed his decision. BUT - I DO have a problem with a player attempting to loudly pressure the GM into doing so. Especially when that player knows better.


Trout




On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 2:11 PM, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:

[quote:da3e25679a] Point? That a player wrote an order, using the letters printed on the map, which as best I can tell by actually looking at the map the M and the H are indistinguishable, yet it was misordered. The order was not ambiguous - if there was another space nearby that was HST, then MST and HST need to be different. But given that's how it's labeled, I see no reason not to accept it. But I guess there's no point, and it's in your best interest to see to it that nothing is changed, but I did want to voice that it was a challengeable ruling, and so I challenged it. Er seconded Jason's challenge rather. Am I not entitled to challenge a ruling? Michael has made his statement, doesnt mean I cant point out that a player used the abbreviation printed on the map, and that was misordered cuz apparently we're supposed to make up our own abbreviation based on the textual wording which only exists on some of the provinces. Because you did get it right, I'll give you a pat on the back for that. I never suggested invalidating your order.


From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]

Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 3:01 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Rob Ackerley; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD





I don't know if I buy that argument. I used the same map that the GM sent out and ordered to the same spot. Somehow I managed to get the correct abbreviation...

What exactly is the point of all of this, Mike? Again - I don't know if I agree with the call made by the GM, but it is definitely HIS call to make...


T.

On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 1:28 PM, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote:da3e25679a] I know you were, and it was amusing, and it does exemplify the fact that using an unrelated 3rd party app we'd be correct, but using the maps our gm sends out, we'd get misorders. (it was also nice to get an email from you Rob, I think this conversation has resulted in us doubling our total communique in this game thus far! :-p)


From: Rob Ackerley [mailto:rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])]

Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 2:07 PM
To: Michael Sims; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout

Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD





I was just trying to interject some humour... I am torn and we all have probably been on both sides of choices like this... Sucks yes, but part of the game and part of the duty of the GM's who graciously grant us their time to manage our games.

I jumping out of this debate now...


From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
To: Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 1:59:35 PM
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD

So we need to rely on a 3rd-party program, which Michael does not send out the .dpy files for, instead of using the map he does send, which does have abbreviations on it which are supposedly to be accepted? It definitely looks like HST, irrelevant of what the actual text name is.

Can you at least pls take the abbreviations off the map, if you're not going to allow the ones that are printed on it?

I guess I didnt look at the error initially, but this is silly to not accept an abbrev that's on the map that's sent out.
-mike



From: Rob Ackerley [mailto:rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:51 PM
To: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email]); Former Trout; Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 158NewArchersJason Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD


Cut and paste from RP Saves all the problems and is a lot less work too!


From: MICHAEL BOUTOT <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>
To: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>; Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Cc: Jason 4747 <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 158NewArchersJason Longbow <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>; 209Australia Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; 209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>; DC101tGMStephen Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 1:49:43 PM
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD

1 can clearly read Malacca Strait underneath the 3 letters in dispute. That alone makes it clear. The other earlier errors had the same conflict that should have raised a white flag.


--- On Mon, 2/9/09, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:

[quote:da3e25679a]From: Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])>
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: "Former Trout" <former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])>
Cc: "Jason 4747" <jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT" <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "158NewArchersJason Longbow" <githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email])>, "209Australia Nick Cherrier" <zeclient(at)hotmail.com ([email]zeclient(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, "209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts" <salexander37(at)gmail.com ([email]salexander37(at)gmail.com[/email])>, "209Vietnam Rob Ackerley" <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca ([email]rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca[/email])>, "DC101tGMStephen Lytton" <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email])>, dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 11:24 AM
Yeah but you have to agree the map clearly looks like HST,
or certainly could be read that way. I mean if we cant rely
on the abbreviations on the map we're receiving from the
GM, then what can we rely on?

________________________________

From: Former Trout [mailto:former.trout(at)gmail.com ([email]former.trout(at)gmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 1:20 PM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: Jason 4747; 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason
Longbow; 209Australia Nick Cherrier; 209China (tubby) Jacob
Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley; DC101tGMStephen Lytton;
dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: Re: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD


Personally I would allow the move as well. However, to be
fair to Michael, he identified WAY early at the beginning of
the game that he was going to be taking a strict
interpretation of the abbreviations. I almost had an order
disallowed because I didn't call the province the right
name - but luckily I included the correct abbreviation in
brackets...

Long story short, I'd say its the GMs call to make. =)

T.


On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Michael Sims
<mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:


MST and HST look identical in that font. Why are we not
allowing that move? It's not ambiguous, and the
lettering could be read as either one.
-mike


________________________________

From: Jason 4747 [mailto:jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email])]
Sent: Mon 2/9/2009 11:35 AM
To: 209GM MICHAEL BOUTOT; 158NewArchersJason Longbow;
209Thailand Trout former.trout; 209Australia Nick Cherrier;
209China (tubby) Jacob Roberts; 209Vietnam Rob Ackerley;
Michael Sims
Cc: DC101tGMStephen Lytton; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])
Subject: RE: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD


Mike,

To be fair, MSt almost equals HSt on my screen, but it is
no excuse for goegraphy stupidity on my part....

As for that and other error, kids, let it be a lesson to
you - multitasking just does not work. And just say no to
drugs.

Jason





[quote:da3e25679a]Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 18:46:41 -0800
From: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com ([email]vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com[/email])
Subject: DC209 F08 STRANGE DAYS AHEAD
To: jason4747(at)hotmail.com ([email]jason4747(at)hotmail.com[/email]); Githraine(at)yahoo.com ([email]Githraine(at)yahoo.com[/email]);

CC: stevelytton(at)hotmail.com ([email]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com[/email]); dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email])

I didn't think I'd see days like these

or WTi or CJa(nc).
Philippine F SCS can retreat to Luz.

Indonesia:
F And - Bur (*Fails*)
F TiS Supports F PHe - SIO
F Jav, no move received (*Dislodged*)
F PHe - SIO
F Jak Hold
F Med Hold
A Sab - Kuc
A Kuc - WKa

Malaysia:
F Bru Supports A Sab - Kuc
A Pah - KLu (*Fails*)

Philippines:
F NPS - ECS (*Fails*)
F SCS Supports F NPS - ECS (*Dislodged*)
F SuS Supports F Ceb - SSe
F Ara - BaS
F Ceb - SSe
A Luz - Man
F Tai Supports F SCS

Thailand:
F GTh - Tha(ec) (*Bounce*)
F MSe - Jav
F Sur Supports F MSe - Jav
F Sin Supports F MSe - Jav
F SpI - MSe
F Ked - MSt
A KBh - Tha (*Bounce*)
A KLu Supports F Sin (*Cut*)
A Bur Hold

Vietnam:
F ECS - NPS (*Fails*)
F SSe - SpI
F ViS Supports F Fuj - SCS
F Sai Supports F SpI - MSe
A HKo - Dav (*Fails*)
F Fuj - SCS
F Guz Supports F Fuj - SCS

From: Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re: DC209 S08 HEY JUDE - SING A SAD SONG
To: "MICHAEL BOUTOT" <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com>, mike(at)southwall.com, jason4747(at)hotmail.com, Githraine(at)yahoo.com, former.trout(at)gmail.com, "Nick Cherrier" <zeclient(at)hotmail.com>, "Jacob Roberts" <salexander37(at)gmail.com>
Cc: stevelytton(at)hotmail.com, dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2009, 6:06 PM

I think there error around SCS... doesn't do me any justice, but error regardless...

Philly
Man to SCS support by TAI, NPS and SSE (which was cut) Total of 3 on SCS

V'nam
SCS to MAN and GUZ to SCS supported by VIS: Total of 2 (beleagured garisson rules)

But NPS was never cut and RP shows it as invalid which makes it a 2v2 stand off instead of the 3v2 Philly advancement.

Let me know if I am missing something.

Rob


From: MICHAEL BOUTOT <vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com>
To: mike(at)southwall.com; jason4747(at)hotmail.com; Githraine(at)yahoo.com; former.trout(at)gmail.com; Nick Cherrier <zeclient(at)hotmail.com>; Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca>; Jacob Roberts <salexander37(at)gmail.com>
Cc: stevelytton(at)hotmail.com; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 7:23:49 PM
Subject: DC209 S08 HEY JUDE - SING A SAD SONG

& make it be-e-tter. Hard to do that as Sing is lost. But then , lord, you've got to carry that weight a long time (yes I know that is a diff Beatles' tune - loosen up). Only optional ret is T's though seems clear so he can change up to tomorrow. Thai F Jav can retreat to NIO or MSt or WKa or Bal or Slw or BaS
or ETi or WTi or Sur or CJa(nc).

Malaysia:
A Sin - Pah

Philippines:
F SSe - Ceb

Thailand:
F Jav - Sur

Indonesia:
F And - Tha(wc) (*Bounce*)
F SlS - Jav
F PHe - SIO (*Bounce*)
F Dar - TiS
F Jak Supports F SlS - Jav
F Med Supports F SlS - Jav
A Bal - Sab
A Kuc Supports F Bru

Malaysia:
A Sin - KLu (*Dislodged*)
F Bru Supports A Kuc

Philippines:
F NPS Supports F Man - SCS (*Fails*)
F SSe Supports F Man - SCS (*Dislodged*)
F Cai - Ara
F Ceb - SuS
F Man - SCS (*Bounce*)
A Que - Luz
F Tai Supports F Man - SCS

Thailand:
F GTh - MSe
F MSe - Sin
F Jav - SIO (*Dislodged*)
F SpI Supports F Sab - SSe
A KBh - Tha (*Bounce*)
A KLu Supports F MSe - Sin
A Bur - Tha (*Bounce*)
F Tha(wc) - Ked
F Ban - GTh

Vietnam:
F SCS - Man (*Fails*)
F ViS Supports F Guz - SCS
F Sab - SSe
F Sai Supports F GTh - MSe
A HKo - Guz (*Fails*)
F Fuj - ECS
F Guz - SCS (*Bounce*)

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 14:23:51 -0800
From: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com
Subject: DC209 F07 HOLES APPEAR
To: mike(at)southwall.com; jason4747(at)hotmail.com; Githraine(at)yahoo.com; former.trout(at)gmail.com; zeclient(at)hotmail.com; rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca; salexander37(at)gmail.com
CC: stevelytton(at)hotmail.com; dc209(at)diplomaticcorp.com

Had been a request for brief delay from someone who actually made it on time which confused me. Otherwise no word from the missing. 1 negative draw vote + an NMR(as that means no vote) means we go on. As there are way too many options for F Jav we have to have an Autumn due Mon.
Indonesian F Jav can retreat to NIO or Med or Slw or BaS or ETi
or WTi or SIO or Sur or CJa(nc) or Jak.
Philippine F SCS can retreat to ECS or Luz or Man.

Australia: Thanks for playing - will be zero sc
A NTe, no move received

Indonesia:
F And, no move received
F SlS Supports A Bal (*Cut*)
F Jav Supports A Sin (*Dislodged*)
F PHe Hold
F Bro - Dar
A Bal Hold
A Kuc Supports F Bru

Malaysia:
F MSt, no move received
A Sin, no move received
F Bru, no move received

Philippines:
F ECS - Tai
F NPS Supports F ECS - Tai
F SCS - Fuj (*Dislodged*)
F Ara - Cai
F Ceb Supports F Man - SSe
F Man - SSe
A Luz - Que

Thailand:
F SSe - SpI
F GTh Supports F MSe
F MSe Supports F WKa - Jav
F WKa - Jav
A KBh Supports A KLu
A KLu Supports A KBh
A Bur Supports F Tha(wc)
F Tha(wc) Supports A Bur

Vietnam:
F GTo - Guz
F ViS Supports F Tai - SCS
F Sab - SlS (*Fails*)
F Sai Hold
F Fuj Supports F Tai - SCS
A Guz - HKo
F Tai - SCS