No hard feelings at all.

Thanks for the compliments and I would be happy to play with ANY of the players
that were a part of this playtest. I think the comments so far, across three playtests,
speak to the potential of this variant. With only a few, if any, exceptions I think
everyone who has played this has loved the experience.

I stand ready to play this variant once it has been reworked (or even if it hasn't) to
fix the Norse/Swede/Dane issues. I know this would not be an easy thing to do.
Although, I was wondering if you just made it Scandinavia, the Danes and then put
the third power south of the Danes.

As to the suggestion of changing things so that the east and west would be able to
engage each other more quickly - I'm not sure how much I agree with that. The
play might be faster that way, but then I think the nuance of HAVING to cooperate
in the east OR the west before heading west or east would be lost, and I think that
is one of the appealing things about his variant - at least to me anyway. You are
more or less forced (once you've played a bit) to settle things, one way or the other,
at home before sailing against the others. I think the "forced" alliance dealings make
things more interesting.


From: Gregory Bim-Merle <gbimmerle(at)gmail.com>
To: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com>
Cc: Matthew Kelly <kelly058(at)verizon.net>; Nick Higgins <congressofvienna1814(at)yahoo.com>; Benjamin Hester <screwtape777(at)gmail.com>; Nathan Deily <ndeily(at)yahoo.com>; Nigel PHILLIPS <nephilli99(at)hotmail.com>; captain_sicarius(at)hotmail.com; dc262(at)diplomaticcorp.com; Jason K archer <githraine(at)yahoo.com>; Mike Sims - new email <mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net>; mike(at)sims-family.net
Sent: Mon, December 21, 2009 9:46:03 AM
Subject: Re: DC 262: Angstskrik - Norse EOG

First off, I want to thank all of you for the very enjoyable experience that DC262 was - this was my first go at this variant and I greatly enjoyed it.

Here is a quick overview of the game from the Danish point of view:

I began with a strategy similar to Packrat's; Ally with the Swedes against the third power in the Norwegian power-triangle. And, as both Nick and Packrat have pointed out, I found the triangle to be missing a side. So I sent an email to the Norse about working together against the Swedes and found them to be very cooperative. So Packrat, who played a very good Norse, and I hit Sweden hard (which I must say was primarily due Packrat's sound tactics) and brought about its demise fairly quickly. Also I was able to agree with Nick on how to divide up the SCs between us easily which left me free to put all my strength into attacking the Swedes.

Then came what is being called the biggest mistake in this game - the Danes' stab. Now that I see how this variant works and the great importance of getting across the water, I agree that my stab was premature and that I should have waited until I had fleets nearing the Isle at the very least. This, however, was my first time playing this variant so at the time it seemed like the best move I could make. Also, I'm sorry that Packrat bore the brunt of my blunder since his tactical advise during our attack on Sweden was great and he was also a very trustworthy ally. (at) Packrat: If we are ever in a game together again, you'll definitely be on the top of my list for players that I would want as an ally. (I hope there are no hard feelings)

Anyway, after the stab, my stratagem was pretty obvious: finish off the Norse as quickly as possible and then head for the Isle. Unfortunately for me, Packrat's valiant defense of his homeland kept me tied up on the continent far longer than I was anticipating, which again goes to show how skillfully he played the Norse during this game. Even though I agree that the stab was a bad idea, I think that I still could have gotten the solo had it not been for Packrat's solid defense. This, coupled with the fact that my stab was ill-timed, ended up being the deciding factor between my first solo and a 4-way draw. Nevertheless, I had a lot of fun and I hope that you all enjoyed this game as much as I did. I would definitely like to play this variant again.

In regards to this variant, the only suggestion I have is to rearrange the Swedes, Norse, and Danes so that have a truly triangular relationship, in which any of the two could attack the third. Also I think it would also be helpful in breaking the circular feel of this map if the distance between the continental powers and the Isle was reduced so that it would be possible for the Danes, Norse, and Swedes to begin fighting with the Scots and Anglo-Saxons within the first year.

Finally, a big thanks to B H for designing and running Dark Ages. As a player who enjoys playing variants, I really appreciate all the work you've put into these creating these variants - keep up the good work.

I hope you all have a Blessed Christmas,
GB






On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 6:52 PM, Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com ([email]brn2dip(at)yahoo.com[/email])> wrote:

Okay, I guess I'll chime in now. This is my third time at this variant, and I must
say that I REALLY enjoy it.


One problem inherent in just about any variant as it's rolled out is that players tend to
miss some of the subtleties of the variant and play it like a standard dip game and THAT
is generally the first mistake. I'm not sure how much of that played here, but there can
be no doubt that it was a factor.


That being said here we go. I started out knowing I had to get west sooner rather than later
but I needed to stabilize the home area first. The problem was how, exactly, to do that. My
prior two plays I drew island locations so being on the continent was new. However, I had
seen the problem of staying put in both of those games. I opted to work with Sweden over
Denmark, but there was no good reason to actually do it that way. As the game started Denmark
emailed me and offered to work together and as I considered his offer, I noticed the inherent flaw
in the Norse/Swede area and it is the same thing Nick noted. Sweden can NOT get into the game
without a HUGE amount of trust being given by the Norse and, to a lesser extent (but still there) the
Danes.


So the Danes and I set about trashing the Swede and since we worked well together we more or
less cut him off at the knees. That being done I figured we were off to a great start. With my
understanding of the game and strong alliance play I figured the Danes and I were going to kick ass
and swing westward in a large armada that would thwart the island. Certainly the Dane could see
we needed to get west before any stab was a wise idea. Certainly? Certainly NOT!!!

He seemed to have missed a key element in this variant and once he did that I knew where this game
was going to end. The key was to tie the Danes up long enough for the other players to sort things
out set up for the draw. Now, to be fair, I never mentioned that to any of them since I wanted to see
how it was going to play out and see if I was reading it right. So I fought the good fight against my
"idiot" aggressor (nothing personal mind you, but it was a horribly bad idea) for as long as I could and
try to get the upper hand again.

In the final analysis if *this* game the Danes stab was a BADLY timed one and made the difference in
the outcome. Had he waited a few more seasons it would have been far more devastating and he most
surely would have been in a position to pull off the solo. In this variant you HAVE to make progress
across the water before you can stab those closest (physically) to you.

I tried to follow Nick's logic on different areas, but I'm not convinced all of those changes are necessary.
Certainly the Norse/Swede proximity thing needs work, but I think if you play this variant as it's own animal
and see the need for alliances and fast movement to the other side of the map then you'll see the nuance within
the game as a whole. Yes, the proximity to other countries makes it tricky, but that's part of the fun if it all.