Bret,

What holier than thou crap???!!??? I have admitted and confessed my mistakes and where applicable my reasoning behind some of the things I have done.

You want an apology for how things panned out between us? It's not coming. Get over it.

All I was trying to further illustrate is that Holland and USA are rapidly growing with less and less and less opposition. And even fewer capable countries to counter. That being the case, I am merely suggesting we send this game to the record books and move on with our lives.

I am tired of negotiation, debating, justifying, attempting to assemble the masses. I am Russia and I care only about Russia now. I either want this game to end in a passed vote (really I would vote in favor of any reasonable proposal) or continue it's rapid advance to a Solo for USA or Holland. I know Brazil has already chosen that. You have too (or I made the choice for you if you want to keep dumping blame on me). My retreats will come from my front with Holland first and foremost. They will not come from my Austrian or China front.

bottom line is I see 7 of us that cannot win - several of us will be lucky if we could survive more than 3 or 4 years. So unless USA or Holland are hell bent on trying for a solo (a very legitimate possibility for both of them) then I am asking - no pleading - with everyone to vote yes to a USA/Holland victory.

Rob


----- Original Message ----
From: Bret Pollack <bret_pollack(at)hotmail.com>
To: Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca>; Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com>; Cat23 1200 List <cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com>; dc110 <dc110(at)diplomaticcorp.com>
Cc: David E Watson <dipknight(at)comcast.net>; Jerry Todd <sgttodd(at)mainecav.org>; Jim Atkins <savwa4(at)comcast.net>; Lee Taylor <leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk>; Mike Hoffman <mrh(at)panix.com>; Randolph <ruffhaus8(at)aol.com>; Rob Bristol <rbristol(at)cargojet.com>; Rob Bristol <rbristol(at)cogeco.ca>; Rudi Van Hal <rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl>; Rupert Armstrong <writetorupert(at)gmail.com>; Steve Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>; Suzanne Castagne <sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr>; Ted Morley <ee_morley(at)hotmail.com>; Ted Morley <ted.morley(at)sen.ca.gov>
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 7:51:19 PM
Subject: RE: Guns, Germs and Steel 1264 / DC110 - Fall 1870 - Mysteries

.hmmessage P { margin:0px;padding:0px;} body.hmmessage { FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma;} Rob,

Stop pulling this holier than thou crap. You set this whole thing in motion with your play. I have been and have always been a man of my word in this game. I was content to fight it out at the point aginst the Dutch, but you and China could not see you way to back this action. All you could see was a dot grab. So, I took the last option I had which was to simply collapse and let you see your mistake. Deal with it. I am tired of hearing it. I would never vote for DIAS. I don't deserve a part of this, and as long as I have breath you won't either. If the players wish to continue then great. There is plenty of game left. There may be a point where the US or Holland may solo. There may still be a two-way that is not seen.

I hope the game continues, but either way, I welcome the Dutch, like I said I would.

[u:a2973c7f95]I AM A MAN OF MY WORD.[/u:a2973c7f95]

Bret - What remains of Japan

Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 00:18:09 -0700
From: rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca
Subject: Re: Guns, Germs and Steel 1264 / DC110 - Fall 1870 - Mysteries
To: former.trout(at)gmail.com; Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com; DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com
CC: bret_pollack(at)hotmail.com; dipknight(at)comcast.net; sgttodd(at)mainecav.org; savwa4(at)comcast.net; leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk; mrh(at)panix.com; ruffhaus8(at)aol.com; rBristol(at)cargojet.com; rbristol(at)cogeco.ca; rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl; writetorupert(at)gmail.com; stevelytton(at)hotmail.com; sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr; ee_morley(at)hotmail.com; Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov

.ExternalClass DIV {} Russia:
A Baghdad (bag) - Armenia (arm)

Holland Build 6
USA Build 8
Austria dot grabs from Russia (AGAIN - you fool - Rudi retreat to CYP would ya!)
England Caves under pressure.
China pulls his pants down - spear pointing at Russia and backdoor wide open to Holland.
Japan and Brazil eagerly await assymilation/desimation.
France too little too late.
Another fine turn by the itty bitty committee.
Another year of incredible gains by the forerunners. (Well done)
Aside from USA and HOLLAND Racing each other to the solo, is there really any possible reason to continue this game.
Another Vote.... USA/HOLLAND VICTORY.

----- Original Message ----
From: Former Trout <former.trout(at)gmail.com>
To: Cat23 1200 List <Cat23-1200(at)yahoogroups.com>; dc110 <DC110(at)diplomaticcorp.com>
Cc: Bret Pollack <bret_pollack(at)hotmail.com>; David E Watson <dipknight(at)comcast.net>; Jerry Todd <sgttodd(at)mainecav.org>; Jim Atkins <savwa4(at)comcast.net>; Lee Taylor <leewarrentaylor(at)yahoo.co.uk>; Mike Hoffman <mrh(at)panix.com>; Randolph <ruffhaus8(at)aol.com>; Rob Ackerley <rob_ackerley(at)yahoo.ca>; Rob Bristol <rBristol(at)cargojet.com>; Rob Bristol <rbristol(at)cogeco.ca>; Rudi Van Hal <rvhgames(at)xs4all.nl>; Rupert Armstrong <writetorupert(at)gmail.com>; Steve Lytton <stevelytton(at)hotmail.com>; Suzanne Castagne <sucastag(at)wanadoo.fr>; Ted Morley <ee_morley(at)hotmail.com>; Ted Morley <Ted.Morley(at)sen.ca.gov>
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 12:48:57 AM
Subject: Guns, Germs and Steel 1264 / DC110 - Fall 1870 - Mysteries

- USA EARNS WORLD RECORD IN BULD-GAINING OLYMPICS WITH A STAGGERING EIGHT BUILDS
- DUTCH FORCES FOLLOW THE WAY OF THE SAMURAI, LANDING IN KAGOSHIMA
- FRENCH FLEETS CANCEL ALL FERRY SERVICE ACROSS THE NORTH SEA
- AUSTRIANS SAIL TO BYZANTIUM AND INSTEAD FIND CONSTANTINOPLE

--------------------------------------------------------

The big get bigger, the small... well, you get the idea. One thing is for sure, the board is irrevocably changing.

Several retreats are required after the Fall turn - one each from the Dutch, Japanese, Russians, Austrians and British and two required from Brazil. Deadline for the Early Winter 1870 retreats will be set for Monday, March 24th (11:59 PM GMT).

PLEASE DOUBLE-CHECK THESE RESULTS! I have to admit that I'm a little under the influence tonight after the bad part of a couple bottles of wine - things might be a little shaky. Just let me know if you spot any errors.

Cheers folks!

Trout

Dip 1264 / DC110 Guns, Germs and Steel
An Imperial Variant Game Game Started: June 13, 2007





Current Turn: Fall 1870

Next Deadline: Early Winter 1870 Retreats
Monday, March 24th (11:59 PM GMT)



The Assembly of Nations

Austria: Mike Hoffman
mrh AT panix DOT com Brazil: Ted Morley
Ted DOT Morley AT SEN DOT CA DOT GOV Britain: Steve Lytton
Stevelytton AT hotmail DOT com China: Dave Watson
dipknight AT comcast DOT net Confederate States: Jim Atkins
savwa4 AT comcast DOT net France: Lee Taylor
leewarrentaylor AT yahoo DOT co DOT uk Holland: Rudi van Hal
rvhgames AT xs4all DOT nl Japan: Bret Pollack
bret_pollack AT hotmail DOT com Mexico: Randolph
ruffhaus8 AT aol DOT com Prussia: Shane Whatsit
shanefgtoledo AT yahoo DOT com Russia: Rob Ackerley
rob_ackerley AT yahoo DOT ca Turkey: Jerry Todd
stgttodd AT mainecav DOT org United States: Rupert Alesbury
writetorupert AT gmail DOT com



Humble GM: Former Trout
former DOT trout AT gmail DOT com Game Starting Map: http://www.diplom.org/Online/maps/imperial-small.gif Variant Description: http://www.diplom.org/Online/variants/imperial.html




CURRENT TURN:


FALL 1870 ORDERS:


FRANCE:
a Sic to trp OK a Met to hol OK a Okn to rec OK a Pie support a rom OK a Par to met OK a Rom support a pie OK a Mrc to tir OK a Mdo hold OK a Nan to par OK f Ion convoy a sic to trp OK f Wme to sog OK f Vrd support f mat OK f Sgr support f bcu OK f Can to azo OK f Adr support f ion OK f Tyn support f ion OK f Rdj to oli OK f Rec to pra OK f Hol to nth OK f Bcu convoy a okn to rec OK f Hel support f hol to nth OK f Rou support f hol to nth OK f Mat support f bcu OK f Tun support a sic to trp OK f Sat convoy a okn to rec OK

HOLLAND:
F Antarctic Atlantic Ocean (aat) - Drake (dra) OK F Antarctic Pacific Ocean(apa) Supports F Antarctic Atlantic Ocean (aat) - Drake (dra) OK F Arabian Sea(ara) - Horn of Africa (hoa) OK A Aswan (asw) Supports A Dar Es Sallam (dar) - Fezz (fzz) OK A Bangalore (ban) Supports A Nejaaz (nej) - Baghdad (bag) OK F Bangkok (bnk)(wc) Hold OK F Bismark Sea (bis) Supports F Philippine (phi) OK A Cambodia (cmb) Supports F Bangkok (bnk)(wc) OK F Cape Town (ctn) - Goodhope (goo) OK A Dar Es Sallam (dar) - Fezz (fzz) OK F East China Sea (ecs) - Yellow Sea (yse) OK F Equatorial CounterCurrent (eco) Supports F Hawaii (haw) - West Pacific (wpa) OK F Goodhope (goo) - Antarctic Indian Ocean(ain) OK A Gujarat (guj) - Karachi (krc) OK F Gulf of Siam (gos) - South China Sea (scs) OK F Hadramaut (hdr)(nc) Supports A Nejaaz (nej) - Baghdad (bag) OK F Izu Trench (izu) - Kagoshima (kag) OK F Java Sea (jse) - Celebes Sea (cls) OK A Kenya (ken) - Dar Es Sallam (dar) OK F Madras (mds) - Arabian Sea(ara) OK F Marshal Islands (mhl) Supports F Hawaii (haw) - West Pacific (wpa) OK A Mozambique (moz) - Kenya (ken) OK A Nejaaz (nej) - Baghdad (bag) OK F New Zealand (nzl) Supports F Antarctic Pacific Ocean(apa) OK A Northern Territories (ntr) - South Australia (sau) OK F Okinawa (oki) Supports F East China Sea (ecs) - Yellow Sea (yse) OK F Persian Gulf (pgu) Supports A Bangalore (ban) OK F Philippine (phi) Supports F South China Sea (scs) - East China Sea (ecs) OK F Red Sea (rse) - Cairo (cai)(ec) [BOUNCE with CAI 1:1] F South China Sea (scs) - East China Sea (ecs) OK F South West Pacific (swp) Supports F Equatorial CounterCurrent (eco) OK F Sudan (sud) - Abyssinia (aby) OK A Syria (syr) - Armenia (arm) [DEFEATED & DISLODGED by ARM 2:1] F Timor (tim) - Coral Sea (cor) OK

JAPAN:
F Poa support A Seo OK A Seo support China A Vla OK F Sak support China A Vla OK F Edo support F WPa to Kur OK F Wpa to Kur [DEFEATED by WST 3:2; DISBANDED by WPA 3:1] F Kir to Sct [BOUNCE with SPA 1:1] F Okh to Sap OK F Yel support A Seo [DISLODGED by ECS 2:1] F Crl to Izu OK

RUSSIA:
F Angora (ang)(sc) Supports A Armenia (arm) - Syria (syr) OK A Armenia (arm) - Syria (syr) OK A Baghdad (bag) - Nejaaz (nej) [DEFEATED & DISLODGED by NEJ 3:1] F Black Sea (bla) Supports A Rumania (rum) OK A Irkutsk (irk) Supports F Okhotsk (okh) - Vladivostok (vla) VOID (No Such Order) A Khiva (khv) Supports A Orenburg (orn) - Bokhara (bkh) OK A Kirghiz (kir) - Tashkent (tsh) [DEFEATED & DISBANDED by TSH 3:2] A Krasnoyarsk (kra) Supports A Kirghiz (kir) - Tashkent (tsh) OK A Livonia (lvn) Supports A Warsaw (war) OK A Warsaw (war) Hold OK A Orenburg (orn) - Bokhara (bkh) OK A Rumania (rum) Hold OK A Sevastopol (sev) Supports A Rumania (rum) OK A Tabrize (tbr) - Tehran (teh) OK A Yakutsk (yak) Supports A Irkutsk (irk) OK

UNITED STATES:
F Kam SUPPORTS F Wst - Kur OK F Kur - SoJ OK F BSe SUPPORTS F Wst - Kur OK F Wst - Kur OK F Haw - WPa OK F NPa - Wst OK F WCo - NPa OK F EPa - Haw OK F GoC - EPa OK F GoP CONVOYS A Hon - GoP - Lim OK F PBa SUPPORTS A Hon - GoP - Lim OK F CBa - Qto [BOUNCE with QTO 1:1] F SPa - Sct [BOUNCE with KSE 1:1] A Pan SUPPORTS A Gtm - WCa - Bgt OK A Hon - GoP - Lim OK A Gtm - WCa - Bgt OK A Ala HOLDS OK A NOl - Ten OK A Cyn SUPPORTS F NET - Pmb OK F GoM SUPPORTS F WCa OK F WCa CONVOYS A Gtm - WCa - Bgt OK F Cub SUPPORTS F Sar - Hai OK F Bah - Sar OK F NET - Pmb OK F Sar - Hai OK F ESe SUPPORTS F Che - NAt OK F Che - NAt [BOUNCE with NAT 1:1] F Hud SUPPORTS F NAt - NPs OK F Lon SUPPORTS F NAt - NPs [CUT by NTH] F NAt - NPs [BOUNCE with BAR 2:2] F Dub - Edi [BOUNCE with EDI 1:1]

AUSTRIA:
A Fzz S Cai [DISLODGED by DAR 2:1] A Elj -> Twr OK A Cai S Arm -> Syr [CUT by RED] A Wlc S Bos -> Rum OK A Bos -> Rum [BOUNCE with RUM 3:3] A Sof S Bos -> Rum OK F Aeg -> Con OK F EME S Aeg -> Con OK F Cre -> Aeg OK A Bud -> Glc OK A Crt S Ven OK A Ven S Rom OK A Sil S Bud -> Glc OK A Prs S Sil OK A Stu S Kie OK A Ruh S Kie OK A Kie S Hol OK [GM NOTE: A GLD UNORDERED - HOLDS] OK

BRAZIL:
Brazilian forces to stand down
[GM NOTE: A LIMA HOLDS] [DISLODGED by HON 2:1] [GM NOTE: A BOGOTA HOLDS] [DISLODGED by GTM 2:1] [GM NOTE: A BRASILIA HOLDS] OK [GM NOTE: F EASTERN CARRIBEAN SEA HOLDS] OK [GM NOTE: F FALKLAND ISLANDS HOLDS] OK [GM NOTE: F QUITO HOLDS] OK [GM NOTE: F DRAKE HOLDS] [DISBANDED by AAT 2:1] [GM NOTE: F HAITI HOLDS] [DISBANDED by SAR 2:1] [GM NOTE: F CAPE OF ARGENTINA HOLDS] OK [GM NOTE: F VIRGIN ISLANDS HOLDS] OK [GM NOTE: F URUGUAY HOLDS] OK

BRITAIN:
Fleet Nth - Lon. [BOUNCE with LON 1:1; DISLODGED by HOL 3:1] F Edi Supports f nth - lon [CUT by DUB] f nwg s f edi OK f bar - ne passage [BOUNCE with NAT 2:2] f greenland s f bar - ne passage OK

CHINA:
A TSH - KIR OK A KSG S A TSH - KIR OK A SNK S A TSH - KIR OK A BKH - TSH OK A LCH - MON OK A PEK - LCH OK A VLA Hold OK A MNC S A VLA OK A NMG S A LCH - MON OK F SHA - PEK OK A FUC - SHA OK A CAN - WUH OK A TNK - CAN [BOUNCE with HGK 1:1] F HK - CAN [BOUNCE with TNK 1:1] A DEL - KAS OK [GM NOTE: A RANGOON UNORDERED - HOLDS] OK

EARLY WINTER 1870 RETREATS:
Dutch A Syria may retreat to Nej, Cyp, Mec or OTB
Japanese F Yellow Sea may retreat to Fsn or OTB
Japanese F West Pacific is Automatically Disbanded
Russian A Baghdad may retreat to Arm, Tbr or OTB
Russian A Kirghiz is Automatically Disbanded
Austrian A Fezz may retreat to Tbq or OTB
Brazilian A Lima may retreat to Mit, Ama or OTB
Brazilian A Bogota may retreat to Mit, Brc, Clb or OTB
Brazilian F Drake is Automatically Disbanded
Brazilian F Haiti is Automatically Disbanded
British F North Sea may retreat to Nan, Nwy, Ska, Den or OTB


WINTER 1870 ADJUSTMENTS:
France: BUILDS 2 Holland: BUILDS 5 Japan: DISBANDS 1 Russia: DISBANDS 1 United States: BUILDS 8 Austria: No Adjustments Brazil: DISBANDS 2 Britain: No Adjustments China: BUILDS 1



Unit / Supply Center Breakdown


France: BUILDS 2
27 Supply Centers - Nan, Mrs, Par, Crs, Mnv, Gcs, Sie, Ivc, Pie, Vlc
Vrd, Mrc, Tun, Cmn, Okn, Azo, Gib, Sal, Hol, Sic, Rom, Trp, Fij, Rdj,
Sgr, Rec, Oli
9 Armies - Trp, Hol, Rec, Pie, Met, Rom, Tir, Mdo, Par
16 Fleets - Ion, Sog, Vrd, Sgr, Azo, Adr, Tyn, Oli, Pra, Nth, Bcu, Hel, Rou,
Mat, Tun, Sat


Holland: BUILDS 5
40 Supply Centers - Ctn, Trn, Cey, Sum, Jav, Brn, Rho, Amn, Srw, Ngu
Mal, Ija, Bsw, Sey, Sgp, Mad, Bnk, Mld, Per, Qnl, Nsw, Mds, Cmb, Nze
Cch, Luz, Mnd, Bor, Oma, Ade, Bag, Aby, Sud, For, Krc, Ban, Oki, Kag
Mhl, Bom
11 Armies - Asw, Ban, Cmb, Fzz, Bag, Dar, [Syr], Ken, Bag, Krc, Sau
24 Fleets - Dra, Hdr(ec), Ara, Bis, Bnk(wc), Nzl, Rse, Aby, Yse, Pgu,
Eco, Hoa, Ecs, Phi, Apa, Ain, Goo, Swp, Cor, Oki, Kag, Mhl, Scs, Cls


Japan: DISBANDS 1
7 Supply Centers - Edo, Sap, Fsn, Seo, Crl, Poa, Sak
1 Army - Seo
7 Fleets - [Yse], Edo, Izu, Kse, Sak, Poa, Okh


Russia: DISBANDS 2
13 Supply Centers - Stp, Mos, War, Sev, Grg, Oms, Orn, Irk, Teh, Khv
Bku, Ang, Rmn
12 Armies - Irk, Bkh, War, Khv, Kra, [Bag], Syr, Lvn, Rum, Geo, Yak, Teh
2 Fleets - Bla, Ang(sc)


United States: BUILDS 8
39 Supply Centers - Wdc, Nyo, Det, Sfo, Org, Sea, Neb, Kan, Vic, Alb
Ric, Van, Yuk, Anc, Che, Nme, Que, Nsc, Okl, Atl, Glp, Aus, Nol, Bha, Maz
Sct, Mex, Mer, Cub, Hon, Dub, Haw, Lon, Hai, Cyn, Pmb, Lim, Bgt, Pan
6 Armies - Ten, Bgt, Lim, Ala, Pan, Cyn
25 Fleets - Kam, Sar, Pba, Cba, Spa, Nat, Che, Wpa, Wca, Nol, Kur,
Gop, Pmb, Lon, Hud, Hai, Cub, Dub, Soj, Wst, Haw, Epa, Ese, Bse, Npa


Austria:
18 Supply Centers - Vie, Bud, Crt, Ven, Ser, Bav, Sil, Ruh, Cai, Kie,
Cre, Gre, Cyp, Sof, Pru, Stu, Ber, Con
15 Armies - Stu, Gld, Twr, Kie, Cai, Ven, Pru, Sof, [Fzz], Wlc, Bos, Ruh
Glc, Sil, Crt
3 Fleets - Eme, Con, Aeg


Brazil: DISBANDS 2
7 Supply Centers - Bra, Prg, Brc, Uru, Lpa, Fal, Vrg
3 Armies - [Lim], [Bgt], Bra
6 Fleets - Ecs, Fal, Qto, Coa, Vrg, Uru


Britain
5 Supply Centers - Edi, Nwy, Grn, Swe, Den
0 Armies -
5 Fleets - Nwg, Grn, [Nth], Bar, Edi


China: BUILDS 1
17 Supply Centers - Wuh, Chk, Snk, Can, Ben, Brm, Yut, Kas, Rng, Del
Tnk, Sha, Pek, Tsh, Hkg, Mnc, Vla
14 Armies - Nmg, Tnk, Ksh, Tsh, Vla, Rng, Wuh, Mnc, Sha, Kir, Lch, Snk
Mon, Kas
2 Fleets - Pek, Hgk


PRUSSIA - ELIMINATED 1865


CONFEDERATE STATES - ELIMINATED 1867


MEXICO - ELIMINATED 1868


TURKEY - ELIMINATED 1868



NEXT DEADLINE: EARLY WINTER 1870 RETREATS DUE MONDAY, MARCH 24TH (11:59 PM GMT)!!

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