What good did "breaking france" do? It just lost you the game. Spain was the one with the clear shot at the win, so then that baffles me too that you'd want to see France go down so that Spain could win. Instead, a BF stab of Spain would have left Spain damaged but alive, and BF a bit stronger, but nowhere near the size that Spain was.
:-/
-mike



From: Andrew Tanner [mailto:damienthryn(at)gmail.com]
Sent: Sat 12/20/2008 11:33 AM
To: Michael Sims
Cc: sgttodd(at)mainecav.org; dc193(at)diplomaticcorp.com; Former Trout; Stephen Lytton; Mick Cox; Michael Thompson; Steve Caponigri
Subject: Re: dc193 ~ Manifested Destiny


I'd say, Mike, that that is the main problem with the map. There are 4 Imperial powers who simply dominate many of the continents. Europe is crowded with powers, and Britain or Spain could essentially write off Europe and consolidate in their colonial holdings. I thought from the start that a Britain-Spain was likely to form, as they had relatively few contested centers and great opportunity to crush France and Holland between them.

If I were to throw in my two cents, it'd be to suggest knocking the colonial powers back a starting unit or three in their disparate holdings, and/or restricting their home centers somewhat. If it took fewer turns to consolidate control of the colonial regions, it would keep the smaller powers like China and Russia from becoming sideshows, as they'd be gaining power bases and be threatening the Imperials.

Aside from a slight starting power imbalance that somewhat relegates the Austrians, Ottomans, Chinese and Russians, I think this is a great map. Be happy to play it again, even as China. However, Mike, you should know I was lobbying HARD for Britain to ally with Spain and stab you. I just want to take some small modicum of credit for helping to break France While on the grand scale that did probably help along a Spanish solo, from the perspective of one of the smaller powers it was kind of pick your poison. A French-British assault on Spain would have left China in about the same situation, even if I'd joined in. One would have gotten stabbed, and a different Imperial power would have gone on to solo.

Andrew

On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 9:20 AM, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com ([email]mike(at)southwall.com[/email])> wrote:

It's a good variant. The problem with this game was that we had 3 large powers... one on around 30 sc (spain) and 2 on around 20 sc (britain and myself, france). When Britain stabbed France, that was just downright foolish, and handed the game to Spain. We two were the only two that could contest the remote Spanish holdings in Africa and S.America. Then Britain dropping off the face of the planet, and not even trying once to start up a discussion about reversing the stab and stopping Spain - led this game downhill. Jerry I dont think the variant is particularly broke, tho I have some ideas on some improvements. Overall it's very good, and the play in the game led to a solo that simply should not occur in this variant with so many sc needed for the win. I'm sorry Mick, but I thought your stab was awful, and that the ensuing lack of diplomacy and seemingness to care afterwards made for a long drawn out loss. Not to take anything away from Steve - Steve, convincing Mick to make that stab of course won you the game, so kudos to a good snowing there.

Another small drawback was the lack of early diploming from the first Holland, which saw one of the four imperial powers go down quick. This game does require a handful of active players, cuz there are so many centers at stake around the board.
-mike



From: Gerald Todd [mailto:sgttodd(at)mainecav.org ([email]sgttodd(at)mainecav.org[/email])]
Sent: Sat 12/20/2008 11:06 AM
To: dc193(at)diplomaticcorp.com ([email]dc193(at)diplomaticcorp.com[/email]); Andrew Tanner; Former Trout; Stephen Lytton; Michael Sims; Mick Cox; Michael Thompson; GM; Steve Caponigri
Subject: dc193 ~ Manifested Destiny




My over ride of the single nay vote was not simply because Spain was
certain to win the last 4 centers he needed - it was because several
players also voted with their feet by not submitting orders with their
vote. Had I adjudicated the turn with the orders I had, Spain would
have gained more than 4 centers and been in position to gain yet more in
the fall turn. By virtue of orders received, Spain had no opposition.

This variant is going into the shop. Play of the game brought problems
to the surface, some technical items that were fixed on the spot, and
some that couldn't be dealt with with the game in progress. I've gotten
some good ideas for improving the variant from most of you, and hope to
hear more of your ideas while the games fresh in your minds.


If all goes well and there's nothing in the way, I hope to start another
game in February.

Jerry