ok - you wanted a response apparently. SL & 1600 are the 2 games that can draw me in (A Med sometimes) to play. 1600 due to map & flow. SL because it is quite like a version of Dip we had to create to get wargamers to play Dip. Early on Dep was a game one gently directed people unable to handle the complexity of morale; tactics; supply; troop quality; etc of even some of the simpler wargames. Wargamers(WGs) were the majority then. The 1st dip games I Gm'd in early 70s ran into WGs who absolutely walked out when faced with "ridiculous" rules such as beleagured garrisons & the idea 2 russian armies even equaled 1 german 1 in WWI (Tannenberg) let alone defeated same. SL is a taut, tactics-filled game where trapping & popping other units is everything. Most SL games played from this mindset are basically decided by yr 06 or 07 & with little or no building as there is no need (or likelihood with proper interdiction) for it. No need for a boring Standard to
appear at all. Not only did you not defend Ber as I mentioned you had to but you now actually turned around & attacked Mun which is inconceivable. Getting that back helps you not a whit. There are no strategies being employed here - traditional or otherwise. You avoid getting disbands & you inflict them on others. You are (were) the critical lynchpin between favored France and an easy win & you jumped out of his way 2 consecutive turns even after being warned what was going to happen. Austria is trying but can't do your work for you. If people are so desperate for the farce to continue with gunboat moves fine. I signed up for a SL & this ain't 1. No 1 looking at the map & knowing they can't rebuild lost units would do what has been done here.


--- On Mon, 12/22/08, Jack McHugh <jwmchughjr(at)gmail.com> wrote:

From: Jack McHugh <jwmchughjr(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: DC 218 SHIFT LEFT: Reiterate: I'm out of this 1
To: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com
Cc: "The White Wolf" <cloudhurler77(at)yahoo.com>, "Stephen Worthy" <stephen(at)worthy1.fsnet.co.uk>, g_mod23(at)hotmail.com, matthew.kremer(at)yale.edu, scaponig(at)yahoo.com, "Packrat" <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com>, "Former Trout" <former.trout(at)gmail.com>, dc218(at)diplomaticcorp.com, "Steve Lytton" <stevelytton(at)gmail.com>, mike(at)southwall.com, stevelytton(at)hotmail.com
Date: Monday, December 22, 2008, 12:22 PM
whoops, on correction, my last sentence in the first
paragraph should read:

i would turn your complaint around and if you want people
to play "normal"
strategies then sign up for a "normal" dip game

gmail deleted a line on me...

jack

On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 3:19 PM, Jack McHugh
<jwmchughjr(at)gmail.com> wrote:

[quote:30f4402538]Michael,

while i sympathize with your frustration in view of

your opinion of our

play but this is a VARIANT.....which means traditional

strategies don't work

so i'm trying new things here--if they don't

work fine...then i'll learn

from my mistakes...iits like you sign up for a

varient chess game with

extra pieces and then you ar3 upset no one uses a king

pawn opening...i

would "normal" dip game start.

i am also a bit offended (don't worry i'll get

over it) by your complaining

about my play--as someone else said this is also game

of diplomacy,

sometimes people get taken in, i guess i was....but i

don't think getting to

your home centers so you can BUILD was such an awful

assumption to make and

i wish u would stop acting like it was some big

conspiracy to screw you....

Also quitting really sucks, as i assume everyone will

play out all the DC

game starts even if they don't like the game or

how they other players are

playing...you should play out the game unless there is

some clear evidence

of cheating or other illegal activity..i am currently

playing in dc207

viking dip..i really don't like the variant but i

played to see if i liked

and i'm going to play it out, even though i

don't like it, for me to quit

would be unfair to the other players, some of whom may

like it. I don't

assume because I don't like a game or am not

enjoying it therefore no one

else is...and i certainly don't blame the other

players for the variant

design or their play...anticipating how players will

play to me is part of

the designer's job, to blame them for taking

advantage of design is blaming

the effect for the cause...

just my two cents,

Jack


On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 8:35 AM, MICHAEL BOUTOT

<vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com>wrote:

[quote:30f4402538]
Worst played game imaginable & they still

[/quote:30f4402538]don't acknowledge it. Dead

[quote:30f4402538]wrong: Stephen can not lose unless he tries to by

[/quote:30f4402538]continuing to negotiate

[quote:30f4402538]when it is needless to do so just to pretend a

[/quote:30f4402538]game is going on. Have played

[quote:30f4402538]& run dozens of these - interdict 1st or

[/quote:30f4402538]don't enter the game. Running home

[quote:30f4402538]means you want to play Standard - plenty of that

[/quote:30f4402538]simple stuff available

[quote:30f4402538]elsewhere. Sorry about your son but this game is

[/quote:30f4402538]hopeless. Both E's moves

[quote:30f4402538]were fine (blocked Ven as R should have & the

[/quote:30f4402538]like) so no issue there.

[quote:30f4402538]
--- On Sat, 12/20/08, Packrat

[/quote:30f4402538]<brn2dip(at)yahoo.com> wrote:

[quote:30f4402538]
[quote:30f4402538]From: Packrat <brn2dip(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: DC 218 SHIFT LEFT: I'm out

[/quote:30f4402538][/quote:30f4402538]of this 1

[quote:30f4402538][quote:30f4402538]To: vegas_iwish(at)yahoo.com, "The White

[/quote:30f4402538][/quote:30f4402538]Wolf" <cloudhurler77(at)yahoo.com>,

[quote:30f4402538]jwmchughjr(at)gmail.com, "Stephen Worthy"

[/quote:30f4402538]<stephen(at)worthy1.fsnet.co.uk>,

[quote:30f4402538]g_mod23(at)hotmail.com, matthew.kremer(at)yale.edu,

[/quote:30f4402538]scaponig(at)yahoo.com

[quote:30f4402538][quote:30f4402538]Cc: "Former Trout"

[/quote:30f4402538][/quote:30f4402538]<former.trout(at)gmail.com>, dc218(at)diplomaticcorp.com,

[quote:30f4402538]"Steve Lytton"

[/quote:30f4402538]<stevelytton(at)gmail.com>, mike(at)southwall.com,

[quote:30f4402538]stevelytton(at)hotmail.com
[quote:30f4402538]Date: Saturday, December 20, 2008, 5:32 AM
A couple of things here folks -
Orders were due Friday and I will get to them

[/quote:30f4402538][/quote:30f4402538]at some point

[quote:30f4402538][quote:30f4402538]today. We had 1/2" or more
of ice on EVERY thing and my son was almost

[/quote:30f4402538][/quote:30f4402538]killed by

[quote:30f4402538][quote:30f4402538]falling branches. Sorry, but that
took priority.

Michael - I am sorry you feel that way but

[/quote:30f4402538][/quote:30f4402538]how, exactly,

[quote:30f4402538][quote:30f4402538]does your being a poor sport
and running for the hills help this game?

[/quote:30f4402538][/quote:30f4402538]You may see

[quote:30f4402538][quote:30f4402538]this game as over, but I think it
is a far cry from that and I also believe you

[/quote:30f4402538][/quote:30f4402538]are wrong.

[quote:30f4402538][quote:30f4402538]Unfortunately me being the GM
precludes me from commenting beyond that.

[/quote:30f4402538][/quote:30f4402538]There is a new

[quote:30f4402538][quote:30f4402538]Enland on the board and
his first set of moves has yet to be seen by

[/quote:30f4402538][/quote:30f4402538]anyone but

[quote:30f4402538][quote:30f4402538]me. Trust me, I have thrown
similar temper tantrums to yours (some worse)

[/quote:30f4402538][/quote:30f4402538]and this too

[quote:30f4402538][quote:30f4402538]will pass. I would prefer
that you stayed in the game and played it to

[/quote:30f4402538][/quote:30f4402538]the end but I

[quote:30f4402538][quote:30f4402538]am not going to beg you to.
I already think you are an ass as a GM,

[/quote:30f4402538][/quote:30f4402538]please do not give

[quote:30f4402538][quote:30f4402538]me reason to think you
are as a player as well.

ALL: I will adjudicate later today if I can,

[/quote:30f4402538][/quote:30f4402538]there are

[quote:30f4402538][quote:30f4402538]family events going on from
1-4 and 9-midnight so I will try and get it

[/quote:30f4402538][/quote:30f4402538]done between 4

[quote:30f4402538][quote:30f4402538]and 11. I will run
this season with the orders Michael submitted

[/quote:30f4402538][/quote:30f4402538]already and

[quote:30f4402538][quote:30f4402538]take it from there.

Michael - if you still want out just let me

[/quote:30f4402538][/quote:30f4402538]know and I will

[quote:30f4402538][quote:30f4402538]replace you. Otherwise
I will assume you were just blowing off steam

[/quote:30f4402538][/quote:30f4402538]and keep you

[quote:30f4402538][quote:30f4402538]on board.

[/quote:30f4402538][/quote:30f4402538][/quote:30f4402538]