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Diplomaticcorp Discussion Forum:  dc279

(2nd 1648 Playtest)


Post:< 15186 
Subject:< 1648 091010: Summer 1655 Retreats >
Topic:< dc279 >
Category:< Active Games >
Author:offdisc
Posted:Mar 24, 2010 at 6:30 pm
Viewed:820 times

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I asked this question in a previous email and have not received an answer:
If Abo has no coasts, then it cannot force a break in Ing's coasts either
(ala Swe / Den in Standard). If Ing has no coasts, what the heck does it
need a Canal for???? I have never seen a Dip board produced with such a
flagrant redundancy built in. The existence of the canal obviously shows
that the designers made Ing with separate coasts.... and thus Abo must have
separate coasts as well.

Mike, Ingria has a canal (well, actually the river Neva) flowing through it.
Much as say the Kaiser-Wilhelm-Canal runs through Kiel in Standard, or the
Suez Canal runs through Suez in the 1900 variant. Neither space is bicoastal
in nature. So I don't understand your point in the least.

Charles


My point is this: If Ing is bi-coastal, what breaks it's coastline?
Abo, right? Therefore, Abo MUST be bi-coastal as well.

In the case of Kiel & Denmark, Denmark is not bi-coastal because of
its *other* connection, the one to Sweden. That connection is
considered 'fleet passable' and thus both Sweden and Denmark have
single coastlines. However, IF that connection was more solid and
Sweden became bi-coastal, then Denmark would also be bi-coastal,
because the canal runs inside of Kiel.

Thus, the Abo/Ing connection is the same thing. Ing contains the
canal to allow it to act as a single coast province, it's coast breaks
being Abo and whatever is south of it (map not open right now). But
that land connection with Abo **prevents Abo from being single
coastal**!!!

If you claim that Abo is single-coastal, then the border between Ing &
Abo becomes 'fleet passable' (like Den & Swe). So Ing becomes single
coastal ---- and thus no need for the canal.

It's just logic. Smile

Mike
---------
"Shared Pain is lessened, Shared Joy is increased" --- Spider Robinson
"Whenever some act of wondrous power must be performed, Michael is
sent" --- Pope Saint Gregory the Great

This message is in reply to post 15182:

Hi guys,

from what I gather, Jorge has communicated to you players separately his resigning from the game. He cited in his correspondence with me his dissatisfaction over Abo/Lake Ladoga.

Now, the current variant rules do state that Ingria works much as Denmark in Standard Diplomacy. That logically also entails that Abo functions much the same as Sweden does in Standard.

Hence, there are no coastal specifications for Abo on the big map I sent to all players upon starting the game. Realpolitik's adjucation output equally expressly does not list any coasts for Abo as a careful reading of the fall adjucation shows.

I recognise that the variant rules would benefit from a more explicit statement beyond pointing to the Denmark analogy. For what is obvious to a designer may not be to playtesters (a frequent phenomenon in the rules-writing process). Actually, pointing out such room for improvement is indeed to a large extent what playtesting's about and my variants have benefited from such helpful playtester input. I regret Jorge plainly doesn't share that outlook.

Jorge has equally reproached me for not clarifying this situation to him beforehand. However, as it so happens I did actually note at least once in a mail to him prior to game-start that:

"Systematically, [the addition of Lake Ladoga as a space] means that Karelia will have two coasts, whereas Abo will still only have one (much as Standard's Sweden despite a canal space touching it in the middle)."

I'm sorry Jorge no longer remembered that. In light of the extensive variant design discussions Jorge has participated in in the past, I was not aware of his erroneous assumption/lapse of memory. Otherwise I would have of course again stressed that point in my communications to him, much as I notify any player whenever I notice such an issue. I don't spot all such issues, but I do try.

Suffice to say that I consider these illegitimate grounds for abandoning a game and am sorely disappointed.

Now, this means I shall seek a Polish replacement. Once I've sent out this summer adjucation, I shall immediately contact DC's replacement list and advertise the position more generally on the site. Lets hope we shall have a replacement before long. As soon as a replacement has materialised, I shall set a new deadline that affords the new Pole sufficient time to negotiate.

My hope is we'll be back on track before to long.

Cheers,

Charles

----------
PLAYERS:
AUSTRIA: Mike Hoffman <mrh(at)panix.com>
DENMARK-NORWAY: Marc Ellinger <mellinger(at)blitzbardgett.com> (eliminated Winter 1653)
ENGLAND: Harvey Morris <hmtucaz(at)gmail.com>
FRANCE: Nigel Phillips <nephilli99(at)hotmail.com>
POLAND-LITHUANIA: TBA
RUSSIA: Mikael Johansson <m_don_j(at)hotmail.com> (eliminated Winter 1650)
SPAIN: Dirk Knemeyer <dirk(at)knemeyer.com>
SWEDEN: Matthew Kelly <kelly058(at)verizon.net> (joined Winter 1652)
TURKEY: Aidan Slattery <AiSlattery(at)aol.com>

PROCLAMATIONS:
o POLISH MONARCH FORSAKES HIS PEOPLE
o ENGLISH REPAIR TO FINLAND

PRESS: None. Sad

RETREATS:

England:
A Ingria - Abo









SUPPLY CENTER OWNERSHIP (Winter 1654):

Austria(5): Bavaria, Prague, Saxony, Trieste, Vienna.
England(Cool: Abo, Bristol, Christiania, Ireland, London, Scotland, Stockholm, United Provinces.
France(11): Brest, Flanders, Lorraine, Lower Saxony, Marseilles, Paris, Rhineland-Westphalia, Savoy, Swabia, Switzerland, Venice.
Poland-Lithuania(10): Copenhagen, Courland, Cracow, Moscow, Novgorod, Prussia, Riga, Vilna, Voronezh, Warsaw.
Spain(10): Algiers, Madrid, Mecklenburg, Morocco, Naples, Papal States, Portugal, Seville, Tunis, Tuscany.
Sweden(3): Brandenburg, Mecklenburg, Stettin.
Turkey(11): Belgrade, Candia, Constantinople, Crimea, Damascus, Moldavia, Persia, Transylvania, Turkestan, Ukraine, Wallachia.

DEADLINE SCHEDULE: (all orders are due NLT 6PM CET (i.e. GMT+1)...not local time)




o Fall 1655 Moves: TBA



MAP:

There are 4 Messages in this Thread:


1648 091010: Summer 1655 Retreats (charlesf) Mar 24, 04:42 pm

1648 091010: Summer 1655 Retreats (offdisc) Mar 24, 05:17 pm

1648 091010: Summer 1655 Retreats (charlesf) Mar 24, 05:57 pm

1648 091010: Summer 1655 Retreats (offdisc) Mar 24, 06:30 pm

Diplomacy games may contain lying, stabbing, or deliberately deceiving communications that may not be suitable for and may pose a hazard to young children, gullible adults, and small farm animals.

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