Hi all,




Well I think out Turkey has played an exceptional game, I'd like to respectfully disagree with his assessment of our GM.




This is an incredibly hard tourney to Gm (I've tried, once), given the amount of flexibility in the deadlines (none). Its
alsoan incredibly difficult tourney to run and staff with volunteers.




Mistakes are bound to happen. This is a game after all.




Let's focus on the positive outcome: a very well fought game with LOT'S of twists and turns. The outcome is no longer in doubt, but for much of the game, it was.




Let's end it now with a T/A win...




Fletch





From: Christopher Martin <dance.scholar(at)gmail.com>
To: Gareth Griffiths <gnr.griffiths(at)gmail.com>
Cc: Trust Me <trustmedpl(at)gmail.com>; Winter Blitz <blitz(at)diplomaticcorp.com>; Jim Tapp
<naamanbathing(at)yahoo.com>; Thomas Fletcher <tfletch33(at)yahoo.com>; Stuart Winch <stuartandmaria(at)googlemail.com>; PhilipKing <ilovethechiefs(at)gmail.com>; Mathew Power <mathew.t.power(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 8:11 AM
Subject: Re: DC379 - Fall 1909 - Results


Hi Gareth,



Let me try to run through your points -- and no worries, I think talking about stuff is a good course of action.  Perhaps I am out of line, I often am.  I had a lot of time to think about this, though, and I don't think so in this case.  






I do value the time of human GMs - it is why I haven't said anything until now.  But a volunteer who can't do the gig should either not volunteer or should ask to be replaced.  






I would have replied sooner, but I didn't have access to a keyboard until this morning.  I replied to the GM immediately, but didn't appeal immediately, because the deadline published in the report wasn't until Monday.   If you will recall, I did immediately point out to  our GM that I didn't believe I should be building 3 - I put that in when I sent in my preliminary builds, which I did despite being on the road without access to a computer.  






Of course the dot count can be fixed between Austria and myself, if everything else were equal.  Everything else is not equal.  




Putting it all on the table, then -- I made peace with Austria, he took a big chance walking away from me, and I promised we would take it to a 2 way draw.  Since he and I went through several rounds of typical diplomacy - lying, misleading, what have you - it was very important, in this particular turn, that there be no impression of hijinx.






Jim got a copy of my orders - the ones that included the move to Rumania - and I got a copy of his - which included his fleet holding in Venice, not for nothing, and I can't ask if our GM got that wrong, because they aren't MY orders, but given the fact that I clearly can't trust his reports, I do wonder - and neither Jim nor I saw anything wrong with them.  






So the diplomatic situation is screwed up, because the GM, who should be an invisible stage manager, screwed up for more than 4 seasons.   It isn't the first time the map has reflected the wrong information, either - which speaks to the players responsibility to double check everything, if I want to be completely fair.  






I can (will, do) also propose a 2 way Austria / Turkey draw, which is I think the result we were headed towards.  




Regarding NMRs, its another reason to not play internet diplomacy.    I think the equation between players failing to turn in orders (which, barring life, is a matter of 5 minutes time, and yes, sometimes that is prevented) and GMs failing to make sure they get the adjudication correct, are two different matters entirely.  It is why the automated judges were coded in the first place.  









Chris



On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 11:06 AM, Gareth Griffiths <gnr.griffiths(at)gmail.com> wrote:











Hi Chris,



I don't know why this is being blown out of proportion. Perhaps I'm
not in possession of all of the facts. If you took Rumania by
mistake because of the map then it seems Austria can be given Naples
of Greece in return quite simply (is that fleet really doing
anything? Of course it'd have been different had Austria been forced
to disband the fleet but since Austria NMR'd anyway...). But here
are my thoughts:



1. No-one is infallible, and it states in the rules that any errors
should be reported within 24 hours of an adjudication. Yes, the GM
should not have got this wrong, but why did you not pick up on it
until now?

2. If the situation were more serious (i.e. it would influence the
outcome of the game) then there'd be a reason to be annoyed, but as
I see it, you and Austria have the game wrapped up pretty neatly (or
you could go for the solo if you choose).

3. GMs volunteer their - valuable - time to adjudicate these games
for us all, and I think we should be a little more grateful.

4. This is a fast paced game with 2-4 adjudications per week.
Sometimes I find it difficult to find the time to get my orders in,
so adjudicating is going to be harder to squeeze in. Now I know that
you haven't NMR'd this game Chris, but others have, and those NMR's
have helped you perhaps more than anyone else. If we were to replace
the GM, why not replace players for NMR'ing?

5. I will agree to a DIAS if that's the will of the group, but do
not think it's very sporting.



If the above seems like I'm having a go, I'm honestly not, simply
questioning some things from your last mail that seem - to me - to
be out of order.



Gareth





On 30/05/2011 15:00, Christopher Martin wrote:

Hello all.






I've been away playing diplomacy all weekend - a great
tournament in north carolina - and I haven't had access to the
internet except over my phone.







I want to say a couple of things.







1)   This is a travesty of a mockery of a sham.  


2)  If you are going to have an email handle like "Trust Me"
then perhaps you should take the time to make sure that people
can, in fact, trust the reports you put out, or NOT GM.


3) I don't know if it is possible in this format to request a
replacement GM but if so, I am formally requesting one.


4) Failing that, I am proposing a draw including all
survivors right now.  








I've played a lot of diplomacy - in a lot of formats.  I
despise the judges for their inability to handle nuance, which
is why I thought I would give a hand-adjudicated game a try.
 And everyone makes mistakes.  







I don't know what has been going on in "Trust Me's" life over
the last several weeks, and I don't want to judge simply because
the poor GMing have negatively impacted my game.   







Jim, I am not going to reply to your last mail personally,
but I want to say publicly that I am sorry.  







Chris




On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 8:26 AM, Trust
Me <trustmedpl(at)gmail.com>
wrote:




Well it actually said Monday May 23rd. So obviously that
was wrong. I copy my emails and I forgot to update the
date. But Autumn/Winter is always due on Friday and Spring
is always due on Monday for this Tournament. Sorry for the
confusion.


My apologies for the sloppiness of late. I have been
extremely busy. I will try to do better.


--TrustMe








On May 28, 2011 12:55 AM,
"Dance.scholar" <dance.scholar(at)gmail.com>
wrote:

> Deadline was reported as Monday - with?

>

> Sent from my iPhone

>

> On May 27, 2011, at 7:07 AM, Trust Me <trustmedpl(at)gmail.com>
wrote:

>

>> Hey all,

>>

>> Of course I messed up Germany's orders. I
must have miss clicked. In

>> this case however there is no change to the
map. So play on!

>>

>> -- TrustMe

>>

>> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 3:59 AM, Gareth
Griffiths

>> <gnr.griffiths(at)gmail.com>
wrote:

>>> Hi everyone,

>>>

>>> Just got up and in to work so not had
much of a chance to look at what's

>>> happened, but in case it does matter, one
of my orders was wrong, it should

>>> have been:

>>>

>>> A Yorkshire Supports A Liverpool

>>> I'm sure our GM will confirm when he has
the chance.

>>>

>>> Best,

>>>

>>> Gareth (Germany)

>>> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 2:09 AM, Trust Me
<trustmedpl(at)gmail.com>
wrote:

>>>>

>>>> 379 Board:

>>>>

>>>> Austria - alhabashi - jim tapp - naamanbathing(at)yahoo.com

>>>> England - Stark - Mathew Power - mathew.t.power(at)gmail.com

>>>> France - tfletch33 - Thomas Fletcher
- tfletch33(at)yahoo.com

>>>> Germany - MagDox - Gareth Griffiths -
gnr.griffiths(at)gmail.com

>>>> Italy - ilovethechiefs - Philip King
- ilovethechiefs(at)gmail.com

>>>> Russia - metalwarlord - Stuart Winch
- stuartandmaria(at)gmail.com

>>>> Turkey - DancingQueen - Dancing Queen
- dance.scholar(at)gmail.com

>>>>

>>>> GM Notes:

>>>>

>>>> No moves received for England. Sorry
this is late!

>>>>

>>>> Coming up, June 13 - 17, I will be at
Scout Camp with no access

>>>> to my computer. Assuming the game is
still going, I will need to find

>>>> an alternate GM. The next week I will
be travelling for work, so

>>>> adjudications may be delayed a bit.

>>>>

>>>> Map:

>>>>

>>>> http://www.diplomaticcorp.com/hgames/dc3790903.gif

>>>>

>>>> Deadline:

>>>>

>>>> Autumn/Winter '09 is due Monday May
23rd 3 PM EDST (GMT -4) 1900 GMT

>>>>

>>>> Retreats:

>>>>

>>>> French A Burgundy can retreat to
Gascony or Ruhr or OTB.

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> Orders and Results:

>>>>

>>>> Austria:

>>>> A Livonia Supports A Warsaw - Prussia

>>>> A Moscow - St Petersburg

>>>> A Piedmont - Marseilles

>>>> A Silesia - Kiel

>>>> A Tyrolia - Munich

>>>> F Venice - Adriatic Sea

>>>> A Vienna - Bohemia

>>>> A Warsaw - Prussia

>>>>

>>>> England:

>>>> A Liverpool Hold

>>>> F London Hold

>>>> F Norway Hold

>>>> F Norwegian Sea Hold

>>>> A St Petersburg Hold

>>>>

>>>> France:

>>>> A Burgundy - Marseilles

>>>> F English Channel - Mid-Atlantic
Ocean

>>>> A Marseilles - Spain

>>>> A Paris - Burgundy

>>>> A Wales Hold

>>>>

>>>> Germany:

>>>> F Baltic Sea - Berlin

>>>> A Belgium Supports A Picardy -
Burgundy

>>>> A Kiel Supports A Ruhr - Munich

>>>> F North Sea - English Channel

>>>> A Picardy - Burgundy

>>>> A Ruhr - Munich

>>>> A Yorkshire Supports F Irish Sea

>>>>

>>>> Turkey:

>>>> A Bulgaria - Rumania

>>>> F Ionian Sea - Tyrrhenian Sea

>>>> F Irish Sea - Mid-Atlantic Ocean

>>>> F Mid-Atlantic Ocean - Portugal

>>>> A Serbia - Greece

>>>> A Sevastopol - Moscow

>>>> A Tuscany - Piedmont

>>>> F Western Mediterranean Supports F
Irish Sea - Mid-Atlantic Ocean

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> Supply Center and Unit Count:

>>>>

>>>> Austria: Supp 7 Unit 8 Remove 1

>>>> England: Supp 5 Unit 5

>>>> France: Supp 4 Unit 5 Remove 1

>>>> Germany: Supp 7 Unit 7

>>>> Italy: eliminated

>>>> Russia: eliminated

>>>> Turkey: Supp 11 Unit 8 Build 3

>>>

>>>