Welcome Guest!  [Log In]  [Sign Up]

Diplomaticcorp Discussion Forum:  dc185

(Aegean - Clash of the Titans)


Post:< 7793 
Subject:< Aegean (dc185) EGS! (and lots of them) >
Topic:< dc185 >
Category:< Closed Games 
Author:sandiegosmith
Posted:Nov 27, 2008 at 1:19 pm
Viewed:1258 times

  [New Post]  [Reply]  [Quote]

Garry's observation on space in the eastern side of the board are spot on. It's too tight and narrow. Too much of the asian mainland is only 3 spaces wide. A stalemate line was easily drawn. Per and Sar could be divided up each into two or 3 irregularly shaped SCs,

There needs to be more spaces inserted between the islands. The provinces are drawn too symmetrically even. There should be an open space between lesbos and chi. Just stripping off the islands from their surrounding seas would do.

The north of the map is too constricted as well. It's only two wide in places.

In the west, Lamia is delightfully easy to conquer but difficult to hold. Greece is nicely divided with lots of opportunities for armies and fleets to advance.

If the game continued, I could only have advanced with luck in Asia. Greece still had opportunities for advancement.



A few observations about the variant:
1. If a southern power ever gets enough F's, they can overwhelm the middle due to the flanking position of the seas. Do not underestimate that like I did; I foolishly thought I could hold the line at Dls but was ultimately forced back [granted Athens folding like a cheap suit didn't help].
2. It seems odd that there are so many places in the west that allow armies to pass, especially around Boeotia and Athens but that there is not a similar situation Chi to Ion or Les to Aeo or Aeo to Chi.
3. I like Chaos builds and I can understand why they are needed in this game. However, as usual, they really favor the leading power and I think that held true here with Sparta as well. There were several occasions where Sparta benefited by being able to build F's and A's closer to the front with me which enabled him to ultimately get better position. A regular build version of the game might prove interesting as well.

Thanks again.
garry


Get more done, have more fun, and stay more connected with Windows Mobile®. See how.

This message is in reply to post 7780:

Lots of thoughts on this one...

**************************************************

SPARTA (MARK):

Thanks to Michael Sims our GM for running this game.  It has been a pleasure to play in this variant.  I really appreciated the Spartan cheer!

After the initial introductions all around, the game began with Sparta joining a triumvirate with Thessalia and Athens.  One reason for this triumvirate was the near total lack of communication on the part of Boeotia. On the far side of the board it appeared that Persia and Ionia likewise entered into an alliance.  Macedonia was on his own as was Boetia.

As the game progressed Boetia got smashed by Athens and Thessalia. Sparta and Macedonia ended up playing a lesser role in it's demise.  Ionia and Persia initially cooperated in denying Sparta Crete.

Soon, both Thessalia and Athens were suggesting to Sparta that we stab the other.  Meanwhile Macedonia began to seriously encroach on Thessalia.  Thessalia attempted a stab on Sparta which was thwarted by the continued support of Athens.

Meanwhile in Asia, Ionia performed a strong stab on Persia with the assistance of Macedonia.  Sparta gained Crete along with the adjacent seas with Athenian support.

The following seasons saw Thessalia getting steadily pummelled by Macedonia.  A raproachment with his allies, Sparta and Athens, was made. Meanwhile in Asia, Persia was eliminated by Ionia and Macedonia.  Athens and Sparta managed to gain control of all of the southern seas.

The last big collaboration between Athens and Sparta saw a convoy of a Spartan army onto the Asian mainland. Athens gained a foothold on the Asian mainland as well, gaining an SC there.  Sparta next gained a couple of SCs on the southern tip of Asia.

It was at this point that Athens decided to turn on Sparta by moving a fleet into an agreed neutral sea and actively began working against Sparta.  This was met by an alliance of Ionia and Sparta who cooperated on eliminating Athens from Asia,  Macedonia continued to make inroads on Thessalia and fought with Ionia in North Asia.

Once Delos was gained by Ionia with Spartan help, the alliances changed once again. Ionia and Macedonia made peace and began cooperating to stop Sparta.  Sparta began making steady inroads into Athenian territory.

Thessalia again attempted a stab on Sparta after asking for a guarantee of survival leading to Macedonia gaining Lamia.  Lamia had been promised to Thessalia by Sparta but Macedonia apparently made a better offer of some of his home SCs.  Macedonia was determined to stop the looming win by Sparta.  Athens stopped offering resistance to Sparta as he saw his choice between losing SCs to Macedonia or Sparta.

Delos was won from Ionia by Sparta and the southern half of the map was securely Spartan.  Now the contest was entering it's final phases.

A struggle over the Western Aegean Sea, a battle for the heart of the Asian mainland, a fight over the last of the Athenian SCs save one, and the gathering of the SCs along the coast of the North Ionian Sea and the game was over.

Thanks all for a great game and hope to soon meet you in another one!

Mark SanDiegoSmith - Sparta

**************************************************

MACEDONIA (JORGE):

I enjoyed this game this game before it even started, as it has a great map and icons. Mike was his usual flawless self GMing, and he has no idea how many breaks I cut him in other games because of my appreciation for his contributions. I found the game itself pretty balanced, with its biggest flaw being that the most endangered country wound up with the weakest player.

This game had two great moments for me. The first was how Ionia and I set up and took apart the biggest threat on the board - Persia - right from the start. We got off to a good start, and never broke our alliance from then on. In the meantime, Boeotia was jumped by the other three, and he did what became all too common in this game: give up.

This gave AST a quick leg up on Ionia and me, and pretty soon Thessaly moved on me with a 6:3 edge in local superiority, while Athens and Sparta ganged up on Ionia. Our goal was to hang on in the likelihood that their triple alliance would inevitably fall apart. While Ionia gave up ground slowly, I managed to stop, then push back Thessaly. This was a matter of good moves, timing, and luck - everything went well, and I knew AST wouldn't last much longer.

A turn later, Athens stabbed Thessaly and Sparta. Sparta stood around for a bit, then joined in on Thessaly as well. But Athens had waited too long to stab - Sparta was pretty strong, and Ionia wasn't all that eager to cooperate with his former enemy.

This is where the game shifted into its final phase. It all came down to poor diploming. Ionia wasn't always available, and usually only spoke to Athens through me. Athens did the same. As a result, there were a series of messed-up orders, and Sparta kept growing. This was in part due to Thessaly trying to force me to ally with him by giving up his south to Sparta. I didn't ally with him at the time because I didn't need to. Given how things turned out, of course, this was a mistake.

The difference between Ionia and Athens was that Ionia never quit fighting. Athens, on the other hand, paid less and less attention, eventually NMRing. On the brink of going under, he agreed to focus again and actively work with me, then turned around and said he had gone to the other side. I had no idea why, as I had always been in a strong enough position to basically offer him one-sided support, asking nothing in return.

That ended the game. As soon as I saw that Athens was literally giving Sparta all his centers, I made peace with Thessaly. Then the three of us - IMT - tried to stop Sparta from hitting the magic number, but it was too late.

At this point I want to acknowledge that, while Sparta obviously greatly benefited from gift SCs from Boeotia, Thessaly and Athens, he played an increasingly good game. In the last few years his moves were flawless, and the fact that he had numerical superiority takes nothing away from this. Let me put it this way: nobody deserved to solo more than Sparta.

Given that Athens could have achieved one-unit survivor status with anyone, my assumption is that Athens' earlier stab of Sparta was the decisive factor. But of course, he could have joined the anti-Sparta faction, and been part of a draw. I can only conclude that, having thoroughly misplayed his position, Athens wanted to assert himself on the game any way he could. That's too bad, as it took away from the effort of the other survivors and displayed nothing except pettiness. Happily, that's one of the few downsides of playing on a large online site like DC.

It doesn't prevent me from congratulating Sparta for an incredibly consistent effort, Ionia for tenacious defense, and Thessaly for doing everything he could to put himself in a winning position.

Jorge

**************************************************

ATHENS (MAX):

End of game statement- i played them all and snatched defeat from the jaws of victory, but well done Mark in his corner- straight and well deserved winner

**************************************************

IONIA (GARRY):

Well, first off kudos and thanks to Mike for running another fun variant.

And, begrudgingly, congrats to Mark for a great solo.

I learned something today...oh wait, that is South Park. No, I actually did learn a bit in this game about maintaining a balance of power and about waiting too long [and then not at all] to stab. Oh well - I guess if nothing else I proved a good ally in that regard.

All in all, this was an interesting game. Rarely have I seen two besieged so quickly [Boeotia and Persia]. For my part, I had to decide early on what to do. I was surrounded by three powers and needed to decide who to fight and who not to. My perception was that if I allied with Persia I had to stick with him through the whole game and constantly worry about being stabbed [it felt a bit like an E/G alliance]; thus I decided to attack Persia full on after lying about my intentions. Unfortunately, I chose poorly [in retrospect] and I would have likely been better off not stabbing Michael. Sorry Michael - you deserved better.

I should have seen from the early moves by Athens a portent of things to come. Max seemed more intent on simply throwing around crazy moves than on forming alliances. At a point early on he was willing to fight me and let Sparta grow as a result rather than secure his own growth. That unfortunately was a precursor to the end-game where, rather than try to force a 5-way draw with Sparta, he seemed to be okay with simply giving Sparta centers in exchange for a 1 unit survival. Seriously? Are you f-ing kidding me? Where is the fun/challenge in that? We could have just voted for a Spartan solo like three months ago if that was going to be the case. Sorry but I just have no tolerance for that and honestly hope I don't play with that type of mentality in the future.

Okay...enough of the side bar. Somehow, in spite of Athens early attack, I was able to finish off Persia [probably due to my game-long ally, Jorge [Macedonia], staying on the same page as me] and things started to look a bit different. The game was down to five and things seemed somewhat evenly matched. Unfortunately I was fighting a combined Athens/Sparta in the south and that was more than I could stop. Slowly I had to bleed centers to Sparta [not willingly, that was just the member that seemed to benefit] who was rapidly becoming the more dominant power as Jorge and Alan stalled each other in the north. Unfortunately my attempts to get Athens to turn on Sparta never came to fruition. He had a chance to do it around 05/06 but hesitated and got outflanked by Sparta. It was pretty much this point that Sparta became the dominant power [and we honestly could have voted on a Spartan solo if we had known that Athens wouldn't defend against Sparta]. Mark made a great attempt to get me to turn on Jorge and I was sorely tempted [I had been once before but I was in a great position to now with all of his forces aligned against Alan]. However, in the end, I settled for some help from Mark in hitting Athens and gave up a center in the south [which I likely was going to give up anyway]. In retrospect, even with all of the back and forth between Athens and I, I possibly should have left him alone...maybe he would have joined our draw attempt. Unfortunately everything I had seen so far convinced me that I was better off with the unit and using it to fight Sparta than he was. Well, whether it was me taking his homeland or not, Athens decided to give Sparta the help he needed to go for the solo. Alan, Jorge and I tried our best to stop Sparta but he just had too much mass and too good of a position for us to stop.

Jorge/Alan - valiant effort. Sorry we couldn't ultimately force the stalemate.
Mark - congrats.

A few observations about the variant:
1. If a southern power ever gets enough F's, they can overwhelm the middle due to the flanking position of the seas. Do not underestimate that like I did; I foolishly thought I could hold the line at Dls but was ultimately forced back [granted Athens folding like a cheap suit didn't help].
2. It seems odd that there are so many places in the west that allow armies to pass, especially around Boeotia and Athens but that there is not a similar situation Chi to Ion or Les to Aeo or Aeo to Chi.
3. I like Chaos builds and I can understand why they are needed in this game. However, as usual, they really favor the leading power and I think that held true here with Sparta as well. There were several occasions where Sparta benefited by being able to build F's and A's closer to the front with me which enabled him to ultimately get better position. A regular build version of the game might prove interesting as well.

Thanks again.
garry

**************************************************

It's been a pleasure, and fun variant!
-mike
GM

There are 2 Messages in this Thread:


Aegean (dc185) EGS! (and lots of them) (FuzzyLogic) Nov 26, 11:42 pm

Aegean (dc185) EGS! (and lots of them) (sandiegosmith) Nov 27, 01:19 pm

There are 18 Threads in dc185:


Aegean (dc185) EGS! (and lots of them) (FuzzyLogic) [1 Reply]

Aegean (dc185) EoG Thessalia (AlanRFarrington)

Aegean - Spartans Cheer! (FuzzyLogic)

Aegean s11 results! (FuzzyLogic)

Aegean w10 builds! (FuzzyLogic)

Aegean f10 results! (FuzzyLogic)

Confidential business proposal (ahmedkarim657 at gmail...)

Aegean s10 retreats! (deadline) (FuzzyLogic)

Urgent and call for more clarification @00226 78050119 (anisulmasari14 at abua...)

Aegean s10 retreats! (FuzzyLogic)

Aegean s10 results! (FuzzyLogic)

Aegean w09 builds! (mike at southwall.com)

Aegean f09 results! (update 2) (mike at southwall.com)

Aegean s09 retreats! (FuzzyLogic)

Aegean - s09 results! (FuzzyLogic)

Aegean - f08 results! (FuzzyLogic)

Aegean - s08 results! (FuzzyLogic)

Aegean - s06 results! (FuzzyLogic)

Diplomacy games may contain lying, stabbing, or deliberately deceiving communications that may not be suitable for and may pose a hazard to young children, gullible adults, and small farm animals.

Powered by Fuzzy Logic · You are visitor number 55604 · Page loaded in 0.2382 seconds by DESMOND