I propose a 4 way draw between Russia, Persia, Mexico, and South
America.  If it can be voted upon publicly lets do so.  GM - can we
take a vote to allow such a public vote to be binding?
 
South America also votes FOR the draw.  
 
Thanks,
Andrew 

 
On 4/27/09, F Bielschowsky <bielschowsky.f(at)googlemail.com> wrote:
4-way proposal has my FOR-vote.
[quote:5907624147]Oceania

2009/4/27 Andrew Tanner <damienthryn(at)gmail.com>

[quote:5907624147]You're on.  Propose it, I'll vote for it, as I have done each time
its come up - AND proposed in the past more than once.
 
Something you told me early on this game comes to mind - that if
Persia and Russia are united and dominate Eurasia, no one will be
able to stop them.  I don't think you are wrong - frankly I don't
believe that anything I can do can seriously threaten Persia, even
if I take every sea center bordering his centers.  Which is not my
intent.  I wanted to hit YOU in IND, and that I'm there now only
allows me to eliminate your last fleet for kicks without any
difficulty. 
 
I'm doing now what I suggested in my press - we give the remaining
small powers an incentive to actively propose and vote for draws.  I
don't really think any of you is actually hoping to gain much out of
killing a draw proposal, or is even actively voting no - abstention
is the same as voting no by the current rules.  Even if no one is
actually TRYING to kill the draw, just forgetting to vote means the
same thing.  So why not put some pressure and provide some incentive
to remember?  It worked in DC138, another game where I was accused
of setting up to attack and go for a solo, and happily accepted a
draw.  I'm not even ruling out someone playing this game with a
different goal in mind than achiving the best statistical outcome. 
I can see myself cheerfully stirring the pot while I was alive, just
for kicks.  Heck, if that IS someone's plan, its working - Ian
thinks I'm trying to attack him, and I'm sure Scott is having second
thoughts about my intentions. 
 
So I took IND.  So what?  I can't keep it if I want to advance, and
it can't go anywhere alone.  And DES?  Sure I could take it, and CON
too, and probably JAK as part of the bargain!  Where does it get
me?  As I've said before, even if one side or the other OWNS Africa
outright, they can't break into the other side's home centers as
long as the continental blocs stay true.  As a gesture of good
faith, I will take NOTHING of Ian's this turn, even though (I'd
thought) we agreed to let me have CON and I can take it at no cost
if I so choose.  But I won't, if that helps prove I'm not just after
some 'alibi'
 
This game's outcome is determined, unless Scott and I or Hamish and
Ian fight.  Which isn't going to happen.  It will end in a 4 way
draw.  I want it, and I will absolutely accept a binding public draw
vote at any time.  I'll publicly post my orders and my vote each
turn, if that helps.
 
Of course, I don't expect that it will.  You'll accuse me of
scuttling the draw, or altering my submissions, and so on.  But I'll
still do it.  This game is ending one of two ways regardless -
everyone believes me and makes sure the small powers can't kill a
draw, or they believe you and we spend the next however many months
maneuvering into a nice, clear stalemate.  Heck, lets believe the
both of us - lets vote publicly.  If it fails, then perhaps its time
for a process of elimination.
 

Andrew

 

On 4/27/09, Michael Sims <mike(at)southwall.com> wrote: Andrew you'd
love that wouldnt you. 
[quote:5907624147] 
It's the perfect alibi to speak so profoundly about how the game is
drawn, all the while you're gaining ground in just about every
ocean.  This turn is no exception.  Propose it again man, I'll vote
for it, like I have every turn.  I'm in it for the survival here,
and as I told the others, I'll accept a PUBLIC 4-way draw if you
and everyone else so wanted to do so.  I'm guessing there would be
a holdout to such a procedure, and it wouldn't be me.    Perhaps
it would be someone w a little more to gain, like maybe the player
who just gained multiple critical zones in the Atlantic and Indian
Oceans.  Or maybe the player that's about to gain JAK and DES, to
grow by two!  Wait they're the same person...
 
But you keep selling your story, I'm sure someone will buy it!
 
I will personally re-propose the 4-way draw of the 4 big players,
and offer to you all to vote on it publicly, with the public votes
being binding.  Now if you all want it, then speak up and take it,
else we see who doesn't!
 
And Andrew, use some common sense here... what would I (or any of
the small guys) POSSIBLY stand to gain by voting down a draw in
this situation... with between 1 and 3 centers, it's just not
lucrative to expect to come back and score better than a survival. 
It's obviously in my best interests to not waste time on a game if
I can end it, it would be dumb to vote it down.  Same thing with
blue and yellow.
 
And if it's SERIOUSLY not you Andrew (which dont bother denying, it
doesnt matter) then SOMEONE wants better than a draw out of this. 
So let's go w the plan above and see who objects.  Yes?
-mike
 

From: Diplomacy Gamemaster [mailto:worldwidegm(at)gmail.com]
Sent: Mon 4/27/2009 2:34 PM
To: Andrew Tanner; Frank Bielschowsky; Hamish Williams; Ian Bond;
Ian Shaw; Michael Sims; Scott Hickey
Cc: dc190; Steve Lytton
Subject: DC190 - Spring 2013

 
Press: SAm-All - So, do we have to start whacking the small guys to
be sure they aren't (even inadvertently) killing the draw?  I want
the draw, Mexico wants the draw, Russia wants the draw, and I bet
Persia does as well.  Its in all our best interests.  That leaves
someone stirring up trouble.  Perhaps we should all surround the
remaining nations and make it in their best interest to support a
draw as well?

Here are your moves for the spring of 2013.  The battle of Africa
rages on and, well, not much else to my eyes.  But maybe there is
more than meets the eye?  We have one retreat to resolve and then
I'll be away until Friday, May 8.

Mexico:
A Paris - Rome (*fails*)
A Tombouctou - Algeria (*dislodged*)
A Ouagadougou - Niamey (*fails*)
F Iberia Supports A Florida - Morocco
F Canary Sea Convoys A Florida - Morocco
F Atlantic Ocean Convoys A Florida - Morocco
F Gulf of St. Lawrence - Halifax (*bounce*)
F Quebec - Halifax (*bounce*)
F Bermuda Supports F Atlantic Ocean
A Florida - Morocco
F Arizona - Pacific Ocean
F Pacific Ocean - Alaska
F Alaska - Nunavut
A Nunavut - Vancouver
F Revillagigedo Sea - Fijian Sea
F Jayapura - Philippines Sea
F Arafura Sea Supports F Cocos Sea - Jakarta (*void*)
F Darwin Holds

South America:
A Pretoria - Zambezi
A Maputo Supports A Pretoria - Zambezi
F Nosy Barrens - Zanzibar Sea (*fails*)
F Angola - Congo (*fails*)
F Falkland Sea - Sandwich Sea
F Dakar - Cape Verde Sea
F Argentina - Falkland Sea
F Cape of Good Hope - Cocos Sea
F Great Australian Bight Supports F Cape of Good Hope - Cocos Sea
F Cocos Sea - Indian Ocean
F South China Sea - Siam (*fails*)
F Bay of Bengal Supports F Cocos Sea - Indian Ocean
F Perth Supports F Cape of Good Hope - Cocos Sea

Russia:
F Beaufort Sea Supports F Bering Sea
F Labrador Sea Supports F English Channel
F English Channel Supports F Labrador Sea
A London Holds
A Holland Supports A Berlin
A Berlin Supports A Holland
F Arctic Ocean Supports F Labrador Sea
A Irkutsk - Vladivostok (*bounce*)
A Ulaanbaatar - Vladivostok (*bounce*)
A Beijing Holds
F Honshu Supports F East China Sea
F East China Sea Supports F Taiwan
F Taiwan Supports F East China Sea

West Africa:
F Lagos - Ougadougou (*fails*)
A Morocco - Tombouctou
A Algeria Supports A Morocco - Tombouctou

Persia:
A N'Djamena - Niamey
F Ionian Sea - Tyrrhenian Sea
F Tunisia Supports F Ionian Sea - Tyrrhenian Sea
A Rome - Paris (*fails*)
F Zagreb - Ionian Sea
A Libya Supports A N'Djamena - Niamey
A Tehran - Somalia
F Arabian Sea Convoys A Tehran - Somalia
A Baghdad - Tehran
A Mumbai - Delhi
F Pakistan - Mumbai
A Shanghai Supports A Hong Kong
A Hong Kong Supports A Shanghai
A Nairobi Supports A Dar es Salaam
A Congo Supports A Dar es Salaam
A Dar es Salaam Supports A Congo
F Zanzibar Sea Supports A Dar es Salaam (*cut*)

China:
F Indian Ocean - Antananarivo

Oceania:
F Siam Supports F Jakarta (*cut*)
F Jakarta Supports F Siam
F Manila Holds

Retreats:
Mexico's A Tombouctou may retreat to Dakar or OTB.

Next Deadline:
Scott, if you can get your retreat in tomorrow, I'll be able to get
it out.  But a better alternative is if you just replay all with
your retreat so everyone can know about it whether I have time to
get to it or not.  So then, let's have the Fall 2013 orders due
Saturday, May 9, and I'll adjudicate when I get back.