My whole game was spent fighting the big powers since there was no chance of me ever being one. Joe was the first big power in the southern continent, so I turned down his offer to split the Wizard territory and instead patched over my early-game differences with the Wizards and joined them in pushing Joe back. Garry did all the heavy mental lifting in the alliance, and his tactics worked quite effectively in getting Joe backpedaling.
But then the Knights and Pirates seemed on the verge of sweeping
south, and as Joe was in best position to defend the southern continent against them, I offered to kill off poor Garry in return for Joe stabbing Pirate Tom.
After that, Joe and I coexisted as well we could. Joe attempted at least three stabs, but I always seemed to sniff them out beforehand. I'm sure I made moves that made him uncomfortable too. But besides Joe's first big stab attempt--which he launched right after a brief reconciliation with Tom that Joe made the mistake of telling me about, allowing me the chance to move my defenses in place after I realized Joe always needed someone to attack and I was the only someone
left after Tom--our brief tussles never distracted from me from defending the central island, which was my assigned Last Stand Zone.
Once Brian was crowned the Solo Threat, I knew my days were numbered because I wasn't manning the line against the Knights. Since I couldn't threaten to throw any centers the Knights way, Joe had no reason to not feed off my corpse once Jim stabbed me.
Joe is one of those rare players who is as (and maybe even more) enjoyable an enemy as he is an ally. I enjoyed matching wits with him and learned a lot from his affable but aggressive style.
From: joe babinsack <chaosonejoe(at)yahoo.com>
To: Michael Sims <mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.com>; "diplomacy(at)diffell.net" <diplomacy(at)diffell.net>
Cc: Michael Penner <mvpenner(at)yahoo.com>; "baz.dip(at)gmail.com" <baz.dip(at)gmail.com>; "dipcorp.player(at)gmail.com"
<dipcorp.player(at)gmail.com>; "welsh_stroud(at)msn.com" <welsh_stroud(at)msn.com>; Garry Bledsoe <kielmarch(at)hotmail.com>; "dan.i.sinensky(at)gmail.com" <dan.i.sinensky(at)gmail.com>; Jerome Payne <jerome777(at)ymail.com>; "jfburgess(at)gmail.com" <jfburgess(at)gmail.com>; "wealllovekatamari(at)yahoo.com" <wealllovekatamari(at)yahoo.com>; "mjn82(at)yahoo.com" <mjn82(at)yahoo.com>; "mrh(at)panix.com" <mrh(at)panix.com>; "sandiegosmith(at)hotmail.com" <sandiegosmith(at)hotmail.com>; "Spinozas(at)gmx.net" <Spinozas(at)gmx.net>; "kingkovas(at)gmail.com" <kingkovas(at)gmail.com>; "clockheardt(at)yahoo.com" <clockheardt(at)yahoo.com>; "tiga124(at)aol.com" <tiga124(at)aol.com>; "tomahaha(at)frontiernet.net" <tomahaha(at)frontiernet.net>; dc394 <dc394(at)diplomaticcorp.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2012 10:12 AM
Subject: Re: Haven victory
Joe Hobbit here... trying to avoid a novelization, but 20 years is 80 years in Hobbit time.
Congrats to Brian on a well-earned victory.
One of the most interesting games I've been involved in, and obviously because I stayed in it to the end. The twists and turns over the past few months were worthy of the reputation of the game -- going a bit too far a few times, tying into the realities of email gaming, and (as I believe) the game was ultimately decided by a poorly timed (or conceived?) stab by the Rogues.
Going back two decades, I saw some strong neighbors and tried to wheel and deal. The Wizards (sorry Garry) were on board, but the opportunity to strike early and hard against a dangerous opponent was too much to ignore. As the first few years settled out, I was able to work with others to grind out the Wizards, made a long term alliance with the Pirates that allowed us both to grow, and saw immeditate hostility (in terms of position and tone) with the Elves.
But the Wizards would not die fast.
The clashes with Christopher were heated and public, which brought about enough cover that we did decide to work together. My arrangement with the Pirates allowed us to carve up some mutual neighbors and put me at the top of the leader board, and the problems with that position. It seemed for a time that I was on a solid path, and a surprise deal with the Elves allowed us to kill the Wizards, but at that point we were so wary of each other that we couldn't abandon defensive positions and wasted a lot of efforts.
Meanwhile, the world started shaping up between northern and southern spheres.
The Pirates arranged a loose arrangement for a four way alliance, involving the Rogues and Knights. I had made a few arrangements, but the south was difficult to handle, and the alliance with the Pirates opened up a lot of room, but we were rarely working together because of positioning, while K/R alliance was able to grind out its neighbors. The Elves were always a thorn in my growth, and I could never convince the Dwarves to turn. I tried to balance Fleets and Armies, but that kept me weakened on both sides, and I could neither overtake the big Southern island, nor properly outflank it to do what I wanted.
I wasn't going anywhere fast, and the KRPH arrangement wasn't helping me in my perception. I noticed a shift in emails, and took it out on Tom. The blowup wasn't pretty, and we got a crappy situation where the Pirates said that they would throw the game (but the numbers just weren't there). The Pirates stuck around a few more years, but then dropped off the planet (literally and figuratively).
Seeing that the K's and R's were strong and almost controlled the north, I first tried to re-align with them, but then realized that the infighting in the South was going to be the death of us all. Elves and Dwarves and Hobbits allied with a common cause of survival. And then the K/R alliance seemed to be disintegrating.... although a lot of it seemed to be staged.
Eventually, though, the Rogues came over. The Dwarves were in a precarious position, and a lot of us realized that Knights in the underworld would be the end of it all, and they were definitely there. I hesitated on stabbing Jim, because I didn't want to open the flood gates, but looking back this may have been an opportunity to grab enough centers to be a world power, and not a waning one.
EDHR was never destined to last. I was stuck in the middle of Elves, Dwarves and Rogues and hit my territorial limit, but I was concentrated enough, and the Knights were enough of a concern, that I was sure I was safe from being stabbed. But I knew four non-growing powers needed to be three, and the Dwarves were vital against the Knights. I also knew the Rogues were the closest to the Knights in numbers, and was wary of giving them more. But turning on the Elves to get some centers was an easier decision to make.
Around this time, the game was dragging and I had a lot of "real life" situations distracting me. The emails sometimes didn't arrive until late, and we had some true miscommunications, but the Rogues did a big "accidental" stab of me, that knocked me down enough and grew him enough that it changed the complexion of the game from counter balancing the Knights to realizing that a two-way was likely.
What Michael didn't seem to think out was that he was really generating animosity, while the Knights were just trying to win the game in the eyes of Hobbits and Dwarves.
I was wary of both Knights and Rogues. But I had limited interaction with the Knights, and the Rogues were always playing puppet-master, and I was shrinking despite trying to work with the Rogues.
The big delays (I moved, vacations, etc) were obviously going to impact the game. But the Rogues mis-played another stab, at a time when he really needed to diplomatize a finish, and not try to force one. the H/D alliance was strong but ineffectual in most ways, except for one -- we had votes, weren't going to vote for a draw to benefit the person that stabbed us, and would play out the game until the Knights won. (obviously the Elves were able to stick around too, and openly shot down victory requests left and right).
In the end, the Knights won. This last year showed that there was very little that anyone could do, alone, to stop them, and the Rogues in essence eroded allies at the expense of a gambit to earn a draw, which -- again -- didn't sit well with his former allies, and kept his forces split.
I always had a sense that the Knights and Rogues were playing a higher level game, and thought they may end up settling for a draw, but being that close to a solo makes settling for a draw kinda foolish.
Great gaming with everyone, and I look forward to more.... give me a week before I say yes to another Haven, though. (in Hobbit years?)
Joe
From: Michael Sims <mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.com>
To: diplomacy(at)diffell.net
Cc: Michael Penner <mvpenner(at)yahoo.com>; baz.dip(at)gmail.com; dipcorp.player(at)gmail.com; chaosonejoe(at)yahoo.com; welsh_stroud(at)msn.com; Garry Bledsoe <kielmarch(at)hotmail.com>; dan.i.sinensky(at)gmail.com; Jerome Payne <jerome777(at)ymail.com>; jfburgess(at)gmail.com; wealllovekatamari(at)yahoo.com; mjn82(at)yahoo.com; mrh(at)panix.com; sandiegosmith(at)hotmail.com; Spinozas(at)gmx.net; kingkovas(at)gmail.com; clockheardt(at)yahoo.com;
tiga124(at)aol.com; tomahaha(at)frontiernet.net; dc394 <dc394(at)diplomaticcorp.com>; clockheardt(at)yahoo.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2012 8:34 AM
Subject: Haven victory
This is it! Game over! Congrats Brian...
Catapulting to 55 suppy centers with only 52 needed to win, the Knights take this one to the record books. Longest game (20 years) and first solo victory... So. What do you have to say for yourselves? EOG's! From everyone! Even those little guys who got killed early on...
Some interesting stats at the end...
Supply Center Chart: http://www.diplomaticcorp.com/country_stats.php?type=game&game_id=dc394
New Trend Chart for Haven results: http://www.diplomaticcorp.com/country_stats.php?map=Haven&chart=Column3D
NEXT: Nothing! No orders due! Take a breather. But the next Haven game is already open to join... http://www.diplomaticcorp.com/game_page.php?game_id=re004
Do y'all even wanna see the results? It's pretty much Knights all over the place while everyone else takes a bath. Not a pretty picture... but just for the visual, we'll attach a final map and some moves...
Some RETREATS that don't matter...
Dwarves:
A Valley of Lost Honor - Marshes of Morva
Rogues:
F The Neverwood - PIRATE SHOALS
F Pans Labyrinth - The High Way
A The Silver city - Moominvalley
F Sorrows End - THON THALAS
F NORTH MIRIANIC OCEAN - RUGGED COAST
ORDERS
Dwarves:
A Lindon Supports A Undermountain - Nowwhat
A Lubrick - Knockshegowna
A Whoville Hold
A Valley of Lost Honor - Garthim (*Dislodged*)
F Powry - Lubrick
A Ogrun - Nehwon (*Fails*)
A Marshes of Morva - Gelfling
A Thra - Silvanesti
Hobbits:
F Mordor - Candlekeep
A Rohan - Two Towers
A Waterdeep - City of Splendors
A Krikkit Supports A The Wilderland - Nowwhat
A The Wilderland - Nowwhat (*Fails*)
F Yuirwood Supports F Mordor - Candlekeep (*Fails*)
F Rivendell - SEA OF FALLEN STARS
F Far Far Away - Never Never Land (*Fails*)
F GULF OF LUHN - Baldurs Gate
F SEA OF FALLEN STARS - Enchanted Isles
Knights:
A Grissel - Orboros
A Mount Nimro Hold
A Vinyaya - Acme Acres
F Ella - NORTH MIRIANIC OCEAN
A Newa River Supports A Troldhaugen - Cave of Ordeals
A Riku Hold
A Grimheim - Ashan (*Bounce*)
A Troldhaugen - Cave of Ordeals
A Orboros - The Silver city
A Devils Canyon - Traal
A Candlekeep - Waterdeep
A Travers Town Supports A Maze of Regrets - The Neverwood
F Slightly Gulch Hold
F Dimmsdale Hold
A Cave of Ordeals - Sorrows End
F Abby Normal Supports A Cave of Ordeals - Sorrows End
A Hoarluk - Fafhrd
F Kara-Tur Supports A Candlekeep - Waterdeep
A Parce Pass Supports A Groves of Academe - Pans Labyrinth
A Camelittle Hold
A Maze of Regrets - The Neverwood
A Endor - Cliffs of Insanity
A Groves of Academe - Pans Labyrinth
A Daisy Meadows Supports F Dimmsdale
A Cliffs of Insanity - Myth Drannor
A Khaz Modan - Temple of Doom
A
Carpantha
Supports A Mount Nimro
A Twisted Tunnels - Devils Canyon
A Snow Witch Supports A Twisted Tunnels - Devils Canyon
A Undermountain - Nowwhat
A Venatori Umbrarum Supports A Undermountain - Nowwhat
F SUNLESS SEA Supports A Grissel - Orboros
F BEAVERSDAM Supports A Orboros - The Silver city
F TILVA STRAIT Supports A Grimheim - Ashan (*Cut*)
F TROG BOG - Pygmy (*Fails*)
F GRIEF REEF Convoys A Groves of Academe - Pans Labyrinth
F MERMAIDS LAGOON Convoys A Groves of Academe - Pans Labyrinth
F EAST MIRIANIC OCEAN Supports F RUGGED COAST - Gumdrop Isle
F CHOCOLATE RIVER Supports F Ella - NORTH MIRIANIC OCEAN
F RUGGED COAST - Gumdrop Isle
F RIFT CANYON Supports A Cliffs of Insanity - Myth Drannor
F RESTLESS WATERS Supports F PIRATE SHOALS - Land Ho
F PIRATE SHOALS - Land Ho
Rogues:
F Garthim Supports A Cormyr - Valley of Lost Honor
A Nehwon Supports A Heresh - Devils Canyon (*Cut*)
F The Neverwood Hold (*Dislodged*)
F Pans Labyrinth - Rivendell (*Dislodged*)
A The Silver city Supports F POOL OF RADIANCE - Ashan (*Dislodged*)
F Ashan - Grimheim (*Fails*)
F Sorrows End Supports F TROG BOG - THON THALAS (*Dislodged*)
A Kahvi Hold
F Land Ho - GULF OF LUHN
F Never Never Land Supports F HIGH SEAS - WAY THE HECK (*Cut*)
F Myth Drannor - Port Ghaast (*Disbanded*)
F Great Glacier - RIVER OF THE DAWN (*Fails*)
A Zhentil Keep Hold
F The Old Gristmill - Dhunia
A Pygmy Supports A The Silver city (*Cut*)
A Walk of Clouds Supports F NORTH MIRIANIC OCEAN - Dimmsdale
A Palmaris - Timberlands
A Sinking Shore - Prekkendorran Hts
A Heresh - Devils Canyon (*Fails*)
A Cormyr - Valley of Lost Honor
F Port Ghaast - Gumdrop Isle
(*Fails*)
A
Pwyll - Myth Drannor (*Fails*)
F POOL OF RADIANCE - Ashan (*Bounce*)
F HIGH SEAS - WAY THE HECK
F EAST SEA OF SHADOWS - WEST SEA OF SHADOWS
F THUNDERHEAD - Merrow
F SAVAGE SEA - THUNDERHEAD
F ZEBOIMS DEEP - The Old Gristmill
F CHURNING REACH Convoys A Pwyll - Myth Drannor
F WEST MIRIANIC OCEAN - TILVA STRAIT (*Fails*)
F NORTH MIRIANIC OCEAN - Dimmsdale (*Dislodged*)
F RAZORS EDGE Supports F RESTLESS WATERS - Baldurs Gate (*Void*)
F RIVER OF THE DAWN - Waterdeep (*Fails*)
