Till 1906 Italy was fighting Austria , and would not stop ( Steve did asked them so a couple of times ) , though it was clear there was a huge Russia emerging. So till then there is no direct evidence.However in Spring 1906 ( while I was conducting a lot of dip with the other Doug ) and Russia had 12 !! SC and was a clear threat , what did Italy do ?

Did he try to stop Russia ? the other way round,  he ordered this :
A Tyrolia - Munich     - - This had Russian support A Venice - Piedmont
Italy decided to turn West and attack France and Germany with Russian support. 


On Fall 1906 he ordered:
F Ionian Sea - Tyrrhenian SeaA Piedmont - Marseilles (*Bounce*)
A Munich Supports A Russia Galicia - Silesia (*Void*) 

Italy continued to attack France. while leaving Russia to continue to grow to 14 SC. and then said it is too late to stop Russia.And during all this time he never tried to approach me .( while I thought I'm dipping with him).

I don't see why working with you to eliminate Germany was a much better option for me , since it was clear Germany was going to attack youAnd having Russia growing on and on with no one to stop it wasn't in my interest. ( Although it apparently was an Italian one).

As for "fair play" I still feel that impersonating another player might be a legal and victorious way of a play , however it's on the very edge of "fair play".I have learned much from this , and will do my best not to fall for this dirty ( and legal ) trick a second time.




On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 7:32 PM, Simon Langley-Evans <slangers(at)me.com> wrote:

Can you back that up with actual evidence, as Doug and I had only sporadic communication up to 1906? There were no cooperative moves and I was merely fortunate that the intractable Italy-Austria war allowed me to expand through a friendless Turkey and the Balkans with no credible opposition.

It is very difficult to accurately interpret the motives of other players in the game, especially when the events are not in your immediate sphere of action. For example, until yesterdayI had no idea that Craig had started the game trying to get you all to neutralize me. Craig! I thought you were a friend I had wronged, but now I see your demise was fully deserved. Doug played a strange game from my perspective and the first few years left me baffled as to who he was working with (turned out it was nobody). And Isaac, I felt that you were quite unreasonably wedded to Germany and illogically fixated on eliminating England (a lengthy process when Germany was entirely eastward facing) when working with me to seize German centre was a much better option for you. 

As for what's "fair play", I simply refer you to the tag line on the DC site. 
"Diplomacy games may contain lying, stabbing, or deliberately deceiving communications that may not be suitable for and may pose a hazard to young children, gullible adults, and small farm animals."

Simon

Simon Langley-EvansProfessor of Human Nutrition
Deputy Head of School of BiosciencesUniversity of Nottingham

On Aug 21, 2013, at 10:57 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:


Given the way  Italy was playing before this phony mail issue happened , I doubt it very much , it would have changed anything. As we are talking on period from Spring 06 to Fall 06.  Before and after that, Italy was playing just the same old game of supporting Russia without any logical explanation.



On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 6:47 PM, Douglas Kent <dougray30(at)yahoo.com> wrote:





I will try to write a full EOG later, but let me just state that I "helped"
Russia in the end game for two reasons...one, because nobody would write me
(which leads to reason #2)...and two, France was conducting all his Diplomacy
with Russia thinking it was me, and I felt it only right to punish that
foolishness by eliminating Germany and making sure Russia took the win.  It
wouldn't have mattered, because any hope of an E/F/I or F/G/I was destroyed with
France writing to a fake email address...

 
From: garry b
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 10:38 AM
To: Isaac Zinner ; Craig - Austria
Galad ; Doug1 - France Galad ; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com ; kaficek8(at)gmail.com
; stevieh(at)taosnet.com ; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com ; Cartesian ; Michael
Sims ; Douglas Kent ; Doug2 - France
Galad ; Simon
Langley-Evans
Subject: RE: DC450 France EOG
 
As an unaffected party (and DC Moderator), I think it is only fair
to point out several things:

1. Italy (Doug) is a very established player
who also publishes Diplomacy World (an e-zine about Diplomacy). While it is odd
the way things unraveled I can assure you he is both real and typically a
strong, passionate player.

2. With a third solo it might be time to
realize that Simon has some weird Jedi Mind Trick that enables him to make the
best of us make bad Diplomacy decisions.

3. Having played against him, I
can't figure out how he does it and I too have been frustrated and on the
receiving end of a Simon beat down. I feel your pain Isaac but so far I have
seen nothing that would convince me that he is nothing more than annoyingly
good.

As a player-run community we try to self-police any shenanigans;
typically if they exist they work themselves out because players have no
tolerance for such. I encourage you to join another game and give it a whirl.


Garry



From: isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 10:57:59
+0300
Subject: Re: DC450 France EOG
To: cbconnell(at)gmail.com;
diplomacyworld(at)yahoo.com; isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com;
kaficek8(at)gmail.com; stevieh(at)taosnet.com; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com;
cartesian.i(at)googlemail.com; mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net; kielmarch(at)hotmail.com;
dougray3o(at)yahoo.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com; slangers(at)me.com




Sorry ,forgot to include some.




On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks Justin for GMing, you did a great job.

 
As for the game, It's hard to understand the reason for Russia's
glorifying himself for his Solo.
This was more of a joint Italian / Russian cooperation in order to get
the Solo for Russia.
It does appear as if the Italian was playing for one purpose - to get a
solo for Russia.
 
Italy conceded his SC (at least 6 SC in 2 turns ) to Russia and instead
of trying to fight Russia had been trying to help him even more.  
Go figure.
 
As it was more of a joint Italian / Russian solo  - 
congratulations for both Simon and Doug for achieving it.
 
--Isaac
 
 
BTW it turned out that there was a fake email address pretending to be
that of Italy, with which I had made quite a lot of dipping, till this day I'm
not sure if this email address was Russia or Italy after all.
 
However this put together with the way Italy was playing made me wonder
if there is an Italian player at all.