I guess what you are all trying to do is say "well done, Simon". I accept your good wishes graciously.
S

Simon Langley-EvansProfessor of Human NutritionDeputy Head of School of BiosciencesUniversity of Nottingham

On Aug 22, 2013, at 1:08 PM, Douglas Kent <dougray30(at)yahoo.com> wrote:



Motivations in Diplomacy are different for different people in different
situations when you are no longer going to win.....

 
From: Isaac Zinner
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 6:55 AM
To: Douglas Kent
Cc: Simon
Langley-Evans ; Craig - Austria Galad ; Doug1 -
France Galad ; Jeremiah Attento ; kaficek8(at)gmail.com
; Steve Hills
; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com ; Douglas Kent ;
John
Langley
Subject: Re: DC450 France EOG
 
I thought you knew about it ONLY AFTER Fall 1906,
Now I see you knew about it already from 1906. When it all started.
So apparently you did work with him from 1906 , just as I said you
did.
 
And now it is me who gave Simon the game and it's all my fault.
Unfortunately, I still can't understand you. However if that makes you feel
better, suit yourself. I don't mind.
 
On a side note, I don't take diplomacy games ( or any other game for that
matter ) personally. And I'm ready to accept losing games or being eliminated,
I've had my share of both.
Therefore I didn't get angry and I hope I wasn't rude by anyway.
If you think that helping Simon ( who did take Steve's comments personally
and who REALLY got angry ) is a punishment for me , so be it , though I think
this is somewhat childish. 
 



On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Douglas Kent <dougray30(at)yahoo.com> wrote:




Exactly Isaac...1906...BEFORE that I was not working with Russia. 
Once it became clear that YOU personally had given Russia a huge advantage by
telegraphing moves to the wrong player, making it nearly impossible to stop
him from winning, I congratulated Simon on his sneakiness and he agreed that
rather than attack me we would punish the foolishness of the person who made
it so easy for him to win.  We would eliminate Germany and he would hold
off from taking 18 until then, and I would attack you...if there was a way to
eliminate you too before he got to 18 we would have done that.  But it
was too difficult to figure out.
 
The reason for the attack wasn???t just because you gave him the game by
falling for his tricks, but also because you were unable to see how funny they
were.  You got angry.  *I???m* the one he impersonated and *I* saw how
funny it was that you fell for it hook line and sinker.  Those who get
angry (or rude) over a game of Diplomacy should be punished....so I agreed to
make Simon???s victory take less time, not drag it out.


 

From: Isaac Zinner
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 2:01 AM
To: Simon Langley-Evans

Cc: Douglas Kent ; Craig - Austria Galad ; Doug1 - France Galad ; Jeremiah Attento ; kaficek8(at)gmail.com ; Steve Hills ; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com ; Douglas Kent ; John Langley


Subject: Re: DC450 France EOG
 



Till 1906 Italy was fighting Austria , and would not stop ( Steve
did asked them so a couple of times ) , though it was clear there was a huge
Russia emerging. So till then there is no direct evidence.
However in Spring 1906 ( while I was conducting a lot of dip with the
other Doug ) and Russia had 12 !! SC and was a clear threat , what did Italy
do ?
Did he try to stop Russia ? the other way round,  he ordered this
:

 
A Tyrolia - Munich     - - This had Russian support

A Venice - Piedmont
 
Italy decided to turn West and attack France and Germany with Russian
support.
 
On Fall 1906 he ordered:
 

F Ionian Sea - Tyrrhenian Sea
A Piedmont - Marseilles (*Bounce*)


A Munich Supports A Russia Galicia - Silesia (*Void*)
 
Italy continued to attack France. while leaving Russia to continue to
grow to 14 SC. and then said it is too late to stop Russia.
And during all this time he never tried to approach me .( while I thought
I'm dipping with him).
 
I don't see why working with you to eliminate Germany was a much better
option for me , since it was clear Germany was going to attack you
And having Russia growing on and on with no one to stop it wasn't in my
interest. ( Although it apparently was an Italian one).
 
As for "fair play" I still feel that impersonating another player might
be a legal and victorious way of a play , however it's on the very edge of
"fair play".
I have learned much from this , and will do my best not to fall for this
dirty ( and legal ) trick a second time.
 



On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 7:32 PM, Simon Langley-Evans
<slangers(at)me.com> wrote:





Can you back that up with actual evidence, as Doug and I had only
sporadic communication up to 1906? There were no cooperative moves and I was
merely fortunate that the intractable Italy-Austria war allowed me to expand
through a friendless Turkey and the Balkans with no credible
opposition.
 
It is very difficult to accurately interpret the motives of other
players in the game, especially when the events are not in your immediate
sphere of action. For example, until yesterdayI had no idea that Craig had
started the game trying to get you all to neutralize me. Craig! I thought
you were a friend I had wronged, but now I see your demise was fully
deserved. Doug played a strange game from my perspective and the first few
years left me baffled as to who he was working with (turned out it was
nobody). And Isaac, I felt that you were quite unreasonably wedded to
Germany and illogically fixated on eliminating England (a lengthy process
when Germany was entirely eastward facing) when working with me to seize
German centre was a much better option for you.
 
As for what's "fair play", I simply refer you to the tag line on the DC
site.
 
"Diplomacy games may contain lying, stabbing, or deliberately
deceiving communications that may not be suitable for and may pose a hazard
to young children, gullible adults, and small farm
animals."
 
Simon


Simon Langley-Evans
Professor of Human Nutrition
Deputy Head of School of Biosciences
University of Nottingham
 



On Aug 21, 2013, at 10:57 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:





Given the way  Italy was playing before this phony mail issue
happened , I doubt it very much , it would have changed anything.
As we are talking on period from Spring 06 to Fall 06.  Before
and after that, Italy was playing just the same old game of supporting
Russia without any logical explanation.



On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 6:47 PM, Douglas Kent <dougray30(at)yahoo.com> wrote:





I will try to write a full EOG later, but let me just state that I
???helped??? Russia in the end game for two reasons...one, because nobody
would write me (which leads to reason #2)...and two, France was
conducting all his Diplomacy with Russia thinking it was me, and I felt
it only right to punish that foolishness by eliminating Germany and
making sure Russia took the win.  It wouldn???t have mattered,
because any hope of an E/F/I or F/G/I was destroyed with France writing
to a fake email address...


 

From: garry b
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 10:38 AM
To: Isaac Zinner ; Craig - Austria Galad ; Doug1 - France Galad ; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com ; kaficek8(at)gmail.com ;
stevieh(at)taosnet.com ; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com ; Cartesian ;
Michael Sims ; Douglas Kent ; Doug2 - France Galad ; Simon Langley-Evans

Subject: RE: DC450 France EOG
 



As an unaffected party (and DC Moderator), I think it is
only fair to point out several things:

1. Italy (Doug) is a very
established player who also publishes Diplomacy World (an e-zine about
Diplomacy). While it is odd the way things unraveled I can assure you he
is both real and typically a strong, passionate player.

2. With a
third solo it might be time to realize that Simon has some weird Jedi
Mind Trick that enables him to make the best of us make bad Diplomacy
decisions.

3. Having played against him, I can't figure out how
he does it and I too have been frustrated and on the receiving end of a
Simon beat down. I feel your pain Isaac but so far I have seen nothing
that would convince me that he is nothing more than annoyingly
good.

As a player-run community we try to self-police any
shenanigans; typically if they exist they work themselves out because
players have no tolerance for such. I encourage you to join another game
and give it a whirl.

Garry




From: isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013
10:57:59 +0300
Subject: Re: DC450 France EOG
To: cbconnell(at)gmail.com;
diplomacyworld(at)yahoo.com; isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com; kaficek8(at)gmail.com;
stevieh(at)taosnet.com; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com; cartesian.i(at)googlemail.com; mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net; kielmarch(at)hotmail.com; dougray3o(at)yahoo.com;
dougray30(at)yahoo.com; slangers(at)me.com


Sorry ,forgot to include some.




On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:


Thanks Justin for GMing, you did a great job.

 
As for the game, It's hard to understand the reason for Russia's
glorifying himself for his Solo.
This was more of a joint Italian / Russian cooperation in order
to get the Solo for Russia.
It does appear as if the Italian was playing for one purpose - to
get a solo for Russia.
 
Italy conceded his SC (at least 6 SC in 2 turns ) to Russia and
instead of trying to fight Russia had been trying to help him even
more.   Go figure.
 
As it was more of a joint Italian / Russian solo  - 
congratulations for both Simon and Doug for achieving it.
 
--Isaac
 
 
BTW it turned out that there was a fake email address pretending
to be that of Italy, with which I had made quite a lot of dipping,
till this day I'm not sure if this email address was Russia or Italy
after all.
 
However this put together with the way Italy was playing made me
wonder if there is an Italian player at
all.