I thought you knew about it ONLY AFTER Fall 1906, Now I see you knew about it already from 1906. When it all started. So apparently you did work with him from 1906 , just as I said you did.

And now it is me who gave Simon the game and it's all my fault. Unfortunately, I still can't understand you. However if that makes you feel better, suit yourself. I don't mind.

On a side note, I don't take diplomacy games ( or any other game for that matter ) personally. And I'm ready to accept losing games or being eliminated, I've had my share of both. 
Therefore I didn't get angry and I hope I wasn't rude by anyway. If you think that helping Simon ( who did take Steve's comments personally and who REALLY got angry ) is a punishment for me , so be it , though I think this is somewhat childish.  



On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Douglas Kent <dougray30(at)yahoo.com> wrote:



Exactly Isaac...1906...BEFORE that I was not working with Russia. 
Once it became clear that YOU personally had given Russia a huge advantage by
telegraphing moves to the wrong player, making it nearly impossible to stop him
from winning, I congratulated Simon on his sneakiness and he agreed that rather
than attack me we would punish the foolishness of the person who made it so easy
for him to win.  We would eliminate Germany and he would hold off from
taking 18 until then, and I would attack you...if there was a way to eliminate
you too before he got to 18 we would have done that.  But it was too
difficult to figure out.
 
The reason for the attack wasn't just because you gave him the game by
falling for his tricks, but also because you were unable to see how funny they
were.  You got angry.  *I'm* the one he impersonated and *I* saw how
funny it was that you fell for it hook line and sinker.  Those who get
angry (or rude) over a game of Diplomacy should be punished....so I agreed to
make Simon's victory take less time, not drag it out.

 
From: Isaac Zinner
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 2:01 AM
To: Simon
Langley-Evans
Cc: Douglas Kent ; Craig - Austria
Galad ; Doug1 - France Galad ; Jeremiah
Attento ; kaficek8(at)gmail.com ; Steve Hills ; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com ; Douglas Kent ;
John
Langley
Subject: Re: DC450 France EOG
 
Till 1906 Italy was fighting Austria , and would not stop ( Steve
did asked them so a couple of times ) , though it was clear there was a huge
Russia emerging. So till then there is no direct evidence.
However in Spring 1906 ( while I was conducting a lot of dip with the other
Doug ) and Russia had 12 !! SC and was a clear threat , what did Italy do
?
Did he try to stop Russia ? the other way round,  he ordered this
:
 
A Tyrolia - Munich     - - This had Russian support
A Venice - Piedmont
 
Italy decided to turn West and attack France and Germany with Russian
support.
 
On Fall 1906 he ordered:
 
F Ionian Sea - Tyrrhenian Sea
A Piedmont - Marseilles (*Bounce*)

A Munich Supports A Russia Galicia - Silesia (*Void*)
 
Italy continued to attack France. while leaving Russia to continue to grow
to 14 SC. and then said it is too late to stop Russia.
And during all this time he never tried to approach me .( while I thought
I'm dipping with him).
 
I don't see why working with you to eliminate Germany was a much better
option for me , since it was clear Germany was going to attack you
And having Russia growing on and on with no one to stop it wasn't in my
interest. ( Although it apparently was an Italian one).
 
As for "fair play" I still feel that impersonating another player might be
a legal and victorious way of a play , however it's on the very edge of "fair
play".
I have learned much from this , and will do my best not to fall for this
dirty ( and legal ) trick a second time.
 



On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 7:32 PM, Simon Langley-Evans
<slangers(at)me.com> wrote:




Can you back that up with actual evidence, as Doug and I had only
sporadic communication up to 1906? There were no cooperative moves and I was
merely fortunate that the intractable Italy-Austria war allowed me to expand
through a friendless Turkey and the Balkans with no credible opposition.
 
It is very difficult to accurately interpret the motives of other players
in the game, especially when the events are not in your immediate sphere of
action. For example, until yesterdayI had no idea that Craig had started the
game trying to get you all to neutralize me. Craig! I thought you were a
friend I had wronged, but now I see your demise was fully deserved. Doug
played a strange game from my perspective and the first few years left me
baffled as to who he was working with (turned out it was nobody). And Isaac, I
felt that you were quite unreasonably wedded to Germany and illogically
fixated on eliminating England (a lengthy process when Germany was entirely
eastward facing) when working with me to seize German centre was a much better
option for you.
 
As for what's "fair play", I simply refer you to the tag line on the DC
site.
 
"Diplomacy games may contain lying, stabbing, or deliberately
deceiving communications that may not be suitable for and may pose a hazard to
young children, gullible adults, and small farm
animals."
 
Simon


Simon Langley-Evans
Professor of Human Nutrition
Deputy Head of School of Biosciences
University of Nottingham
 



On Aug 21, 2013, at 10:57 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:





Given the way  Italy was playing before this phony mail issue
happened , I doubt it very much , it would have changed anything.
As we are talking on period from Spring 06 to Fall 06.  Before and
after that, Italy was playing just the same old game of supporting Russia
without any logical explanation.



On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 6:47 PM, Douglas Kent <dougray30(at)yahoo.com> wrote:





I will try to write a full EOG later, but let me just state that I
"helped" Russia in the end game for two reasons...one, because nobody
would write me (which leads to reason #2)...and two, France was conducting
all his Diplomacy with Russia thinking it was me, and I felt it only right
to punish that foolishness by eliminating Germany and making sure Russia
took the win.  It wouldn't have mattered, because any hope of an
E/F/I or F/G/I was destroyed with France writing to a fake email
address...


 

From: garry b
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 10:38 AM
To: Isaac Zinner ; Craig - Austria Galad ; Doug1 - France Galad ; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com ; kaficek8(at)gmail.com ; stevieh(at)taosnet.com ; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com ; Cartesian ; Michael Sims ; Douglas Kent ; Doug2 - France Galad ;
Simon
Langley-Evans
Subject: RE: DC450 France EOG
 



As an unaffected party (and DC Moderator), I think it is only
fair to point out several things:

1. Italy (Doug) is a very
established player who also publishes Diplomacy World (an e-zine about
Diplomacy). While it is odd the way things unraveled I can assure you he
is both real and typically a strong, passionate player.

2. With a
third solo it might be time to realize that Simon has some weird Jedi Mind
Trick that enables him to make the best of us make bad Diplomacy
decisions.

3. Having played against him, I can't figure out how he
does it and I too have been frustrated and on the receiving end of a Simon
beat down. I feel your pain Isaac but so far I have seen nothing that
would convince me that he is nothing more than annoyingly good.

As
a player-run community we try to self-police any shenanigans; typically if
they exist they work themselves out because players have no tolerance for
such. I encourage you to join another game and give it a whirl.


Garry




From: isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013
10:57:59 +0300
Subject: Re: DC450 France EOG
To: cbconnell(at)gmail.com;
diplomacyworld(at)yahoo.com; isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com; kaficek8(at)gmail.com; stevieh(at)taosnet.com;
dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com; cartesian.i(at)googlemail.com; mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net; kielmarch(at)hotmail.com; dougray3o(at)yahoo.com;
dougray30(at)yahoo.com; slangers(at)me.com


Sorry ,forgot to include some.




On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:


Thanks Justin for GMing, you did a great job.

 
As for the game, It's hard to understand the reason for Russia's
glorifying himself for his Solo.
This was more of a joint Italian / Russian cooperation in order to
get the Solo for Russia.
It does appear as if the Italian was playing for one purpose - to
get a solo for Russia.
 
Italy conceded his SC (at least 6 SC in 2 turns ) to Russia and
instead of trying to fight Russia had been trying to help him even
more.   Go figure.
 
As it was more of a joint Italian / Russian solo  - 
congratulations for both Simon and Doug for achieving it.
 
--Isaac
 
 
BTW it turned out that there was a fake email address pretending to
be that of Italy, with which I had made quite a lot of dipping, till
this day I'm not sure if this email address was Russia or Italy after
all.
 
However this put together with the way Italy was playing made me
wonder if there is an Italian player at
all.