[quote:40779d48bc="charlesf"]Stephen Agar was right in saying: "I have no hesitation in saying that most variants are crap."

I'd say that line is pretty disheartening for someone of his caliber. I understand purists are out there, but variants take the same general premise and turn it into something fresh.[/quote:40779d48bc]

Well, Stephen is the very opposite of a purist. After all he's the custodian of the variantbank and has designed a fair number of variants himself.

Most good boardgames will develop variants or expansions. Any active boardgamers (outside of Diplomacy) will be well exposed to this.

Hm, I'd say only a small fraction of all boardgames published every year spawn expansions or whole franchises (e.g. Carcassonne) whereas there's a whole universe of fan-made Diplomacy variants. I don't think any other modern boardgame has become a hobby unto its own as Diplomacy has become.

Yes, "unpolished" variants are bad. (heh us Poles might interpret "unpolish" variants are bad )

Yep. And Stephen contends most variants are unpolished. I agree. Few variants are as meticulously crafted as to become polished.

It takes time, and it takes all the finishing touches that many miss. I think we should use the Variants forum more for this sort of thing.

Perhaps some such discussions will shift from the Diplomacy Variants Workshop over here someday. Redscape used to have a very active variants forum, but for some reason it no longer exists. A shame. Lots of interesting discussion in there, back then.

One very important key to variant design, is that every piece, from its starting location, has to have multiple "good" places to go that will help one neighbor but hurt another.

Aye.

And that every world power has the ability to directly influence at least 3 other powers, at game start.

You think that's the case with Ancient Med?

Another place variants tend to miss the mark, is putting too much "white space".

I agree with Stephen that the unit to space ration should be in the 1:2 to 1:2.5 range. Standard clocks in at 2.2.

Another issue can be "supply lines" particularly in large variants. The distance you have to travel from your home centers in order to get new units into play. This needs to be kept down to 3-4 turns. If it takes more than that, then building new units is too slow.

Talking tempi here. An issue of course directly tied to the aforementioned unit-to-space ratio.

I've played 1900. It was good, no argument there. I really enjoyed it. But I wouldnt say it's "superior" to standard, just different.

1900 is:

- more historically accurate (e.g. Germany's the military powerhouse it ought to be)
- more interactive (e.g. Britain and Turkey have FAR MORE to discuss than in Standard)
- more balanced (i.e. no power is sure a severe underdog as Standard's Italy).

Add to that that the expanded board affords more options for many powers and stalemate lines are far less of an issue. I think this all makes 1900 the superior design.

As for Ancient Mediterranean ... utterly bland

Totally disagree. The balance in AM is fantastic, the convoy action is great, and the dichotomy of whether to build armies or fleets is great too. It is an extremely well-balanced game. Possibly too much so, as a little imbalance makes things interesting. One of my favorites.[/quote]

I think the fundamental problem is that you only have five human variables arranged in a ring. It's IMO not complex enough a situation and that is compounded by the map having two distinct theatres, the West and the East.

Then see Ancient World. It's AM w just like you describe. Great variant. Want to run one?

He, I'm running a 1900 and my 1648 game. For the foreseeable future, I'll limit myself to GMing my own creations.

[quote:40779d48bc="charlesf"]I think in that respect Hundred got it right.

Played this one too, and I dont agree. I rather found Hundred a bit boring.[/quote:40779d48bc]

I'm not saying that a 3-people variant is advisable. But if you do go down that route, you gotta use a low victory threshold. That's what I meant, when saying: "in that respect Hundred got it right".

Still doesn't mean I want to play Hundred. So I dare say we're here in actual agreement.

Variants can be good. They just need to be well thought out, and have all the finishing touches in place.
-mike

Sure. Doesn't mean though that all or indeed most meet that standard.