Hi guys,
I agree with Mike and Baz that the starting positions as they are only work in a fog of war game.
The Nomads are spread around the board, and can't really form a coherent strategy. The Ogres and Samurai are secure, and have relatively easy early grabs, making their positions nearly impregnable if they work together (in contrast to the north, where there are three border-powers, and three always turn into a two-against-one sooner or later).
The problem of Elves, Leps and Archers is that their most obvious early moves either pit them against each other, or force them to move some armies away from defensive lines against the guys in their backs. Both options lead to easy dominance by Ogres/Samurai or Barbarians/Gnomes.
I'd suggest to radically alter the southern starting positions for regular games:
Nomads start with F TGR, F OLD and F PWY (relocating the SC from FAN). This gives them a base, creates a naval power in the central ocean (which is lacking as of now), and is within their "racial profile" as seafaring wanderers.
Elves start F GEL, F AUR, A MOM, wedging them in between Ogres and Samurai. The SC in GAR is relocated to POW, to give the Leps an easier early grab and incentives to move against the Samurai (or vice versa).
The Ogres start in the same place, but with two armies instead of one.
I can't say anything about the Archers, as I've not payed enough attention to the peculiarities of their position.
These changes might be too much, but I can't see how the Leps, Nomads, Elves or Archers will survive otherwise in a regular game (short of massive amounts of luck/sweet-talk extraordinaire). The record of games thus far speaks for itself.
To the game:
I foolishly chose the Elves, as I was operating under the misconception that this would be a Fog of War game. After my rude awakening, I came to the conclusion that the Elves couldn't co-exist with the Ogres in the long run (especially when they're played by a veteran), and had a stab lined up as soon as fall 01, but it collapsed when the Nomad went AWOL, and I had to reconsider my strategy.
After the Ogres' massive gains, my only option was to throw myself at their feet, and to start working to bring around Wizards and Hobbits against him.
Due to his strange messages, everyone in the south believed the Samurai to be working with the other powers, while he actually stayed on his own, and became a non-factor soon after.
While initially reluctant to move openly against the Ogre, Hobbits and Wizards came around when Max defected from the VA. The prospect of experienced players mopping us up in cold blood was terrifying enough to pressure us to work together. Lucky for me, this was just before the Ogre tried to stab me, and allowed me to prolong my mediocre existence for a while.
I tried to get another front moving with Dwarves and Undead, to prevent Rogues and Trolls from linking up with Leps/Ogres, but that again collapsed when the Undead finally decided to shed the Un-, and was thrown into CD.
The Lep and I got off on the wrong foot, and never managed to come to terms, which in the end allowed the Hobbits to nearly finish us of. I still maintained cordial relations with the Dwarves, as we both were reduced to life our lives out on the pastures, he being chased around the map by the Wizards, and I cowering before the steam-rolling Hobbits.
I still think that Charles could have pulled off a solo, if he had waited with his stab on me until the Ogre was dead. He was superbly positioned to stab the Wizards and/or Pirates, and had a firm grip on the underworld. Lucky for me (and others) that he was content with the draw.
This being my first game on the site, and generally the first in a long time, I had my share of panic reactions and paranoia, not to speak of ridiculous misconceptions and delusions of grandeur. But I really enjoyed this game, and look forward to play against or with you in games to come.
Cheers, Matt
-------- Original-Nachricht --------
Datum: Wed, 18 May 2011 20:51:03 -0400
Von: Balthazar Logan
An: Warren Fleming
CC: Nathan Deily , mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.com, welsh_stroud(at)msn.com, Garry Bledsoe , githraine(at)yahoo.com, dan.i.sinensky(at)gmail.com, jdtsoft(at)jdtsoft.com, justin(at)darkenedpath.com, markjsmith60(at)gmail.com, hall.jeff(at)gmail.com, kelly058(at)verizon.net, wealllovekatamari(at)yahoo.com, Mike Hoffman , maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk, spinozas(at)gmx.net, tomjnkns.il(at)gmail.com, michael.alan.walters(at)gmail.com, dc354(at)diplomaticcorp.com, pjh5000(at)hotmail.com
Betreff: Re: dc354 game end - draw!
Helle everyone,
Regarding the starting positions: Like Mike said, in a fog of war game,
the
Nomad's initial spread and special power worked to their advantage with a
wider view of the map, especially if they could hide the fact that they
only
had one unit in any given area. In a regular game, they're made too easy
of
a target. With the Magicians, their problem is a localized version of the
Nomads issue. With none of their home centers bordering each other, it's
difficult to keep a line of defense once their position gets jeopardized.
Perhaps something as simple as making Sable's Swamp a home center and
Tarsis a neutral territory could fix it.
The only other starting position issue I could see is the advantage of the
Ogres/Samurai in the south and the Knights/Centaurs in the north. No
other
power on the board can have an unassailable rear. Perhaps something to
make
the map wrap north-south could resolve this. Maybe splitting Devil's
Canyon
into an East and West, and then connecting them to Icereach and Crystal
Lake? Just a though, I'm not really sure how it would play.
As far as this game, my initial strategy was going to be to move
aggressively against the Elves and Hobbits, eliminate those powers closest
to me, and expand from there. After seeing the potential strength of the
Ogres/Samurai in previous games, I tried to organize the Elves, Hobbits,
and
Leps against them and that also fell through. Perhaps it was my status as
a
newcomer to the site that people didn't trust.
Thankfully, Charles reached out to me from the beginning, and I resolved
myself to working with him, at least in the early years. The hardest
decision for me was whether or not to stab the Hobbits immediately in
spring
of 02. I was seriously tempted, but I didn't have many other alliance
prospects. Once the Pirates were brought in and the Elves were willing to
replace my units in the south, I was able to capitalize on the chaos in
the
middle of the map. The Nomads and Archers were eradicated fairly quickly,
the Pirates didn't bring any fleets in my direction, the Dwarves got
hemmed
in, and the Faeries were late to the party, allowing me to secure Myth
Drannor and Great Glacier. I think I was able to expand without pissing
anyone off (at least, until they weren't in any position to do anything
about it), which allowed me to continue working with the Dwarves and
Faeries
until the very end.
I think the last thing that worked in our favor was that people were
clearly
concerned about the veterans alliance. All you had to do was look at
their
profiles and see what kind of quality players the Rogues, Trolls, and
Ogres
were. Anyone joining their alliance was more than likely going to end up
as
the odd man out by the endgame, whereas our group was more of an unknown
quality, perhaps allowing the Elves, Dwarves, and Faeries to think they'd
fare better factoring into the draw on our side.
Of course, Garry was the straw that broke the camel's back. I had hoped
we
could turn him for a few seasons before he finally jumped ship, but it
made
sense once he got hemmed in up north. It would have been a good fight if
Garry had stayed with the Rogues, Trolls, and Gnomes and we had to fight
it
out to the bloody end.
Overall, great game. This map was the reason I joined DC to begin with,
and
I had a hell of a time trying to stay afloat. I look forward to playing
with each and every one of you again, especially the next time the Haven
map
gets played.
-Baz
On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 5:36 PM, Warren Fleming
wrote:
I agree with Nathan about the nomads... but consider the poor
Magicians,
who fell rapidly again. A few things about that spot make them targets
imho.
Warren
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 14:15:49 -0700
From: ndeily(at)yahoo.com
Subject: Re: dc354 game end - draw!
To: mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.com; alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com; baz.dip(at)gmail.com;
welsh_stroud(at)msn.com; kielmarch(at)hotmail.com; githraine(at)yahoo.com;
dan.i.sinensky(at)gmail.com; jdtsoft(at)jdtsoft.com; justin(at)darkenedpath.com;
markjsmith60(at)gmail.com; hall.jeff(at)gmail.com; kelly058(at)verizon.net;
wealllovekatamari(at)yahoo.com; mrh(at)panix.com; Maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk;
Spinozas(at)gmx.net; tomjnkns.IL(at)gmail.com; michael.alan.walters(at)gmail.com;
dc354(at)diplomaticcorp.com; pjh5000(at)hotmail.com
Interestingly the phrase: "There is no honor among thieves" (or Rogues)
was
disproven and the idea that Knights abide by a code of honor and
chivalry
was utterly discredited...
In all seriousness - I think the model is balancing well but the Nomads
seem to me to be at a huge disadvantage relative to any other power...
All in all the variant continues to trend positive and I enjoyed my
experience (even the utter reaming I took).
Nathan
*From:* Michael Sims
*To:* alwayshunted(at)hotmail.com; baz.dip(at)gmail.com; welsh_stroud(at)msn.com;
Garry Bledsoe ; Jason Koelewyn
;
dan.i.sinensky(at)gmail.com; jdtsoft(at)jdtsoft.com; justin(at)darkenedpath.com;
markjsmith60(at)gmail.com; hall.jeff(at)gmail.com; kelly058(at)verizon.net;
wealllovekatamari(at)yahoo.com; ndeily(at)yahoo.com; mrh(at)panix.com;
Maxatrest(at)yahoo.co.uk; Spinozas(at)gmx.net; tomjnkns.IL(at)gmail.com;
michael.alan.walters(at)gmail.com; dc354 ;
pjh5000(at)hotmail.com; justin(at)darkenedpath.com
*Sent:* Wednesday, May 18, 2011 2:08 PM
*Subject:* dc354 game end - draw!
Surrender or die!
You can make demands like that when 4 powers control 2/3 of the centers
on
the board. 63 to 39 is pretty overwhelming. The real question that
lingers
is what might have happened if the game played on for a bit. Can one do
better in the game? I dunno - nobody has ever managed to solo this
variant,
and it's already a pretty small draw. So congrats to our top 4! Max,
Garry, Charles, and Baz. The other 8 do squeak out survivals, some only
half a year away from elimination.
So now that everyone has all agreed to world peace, what do you take
away
from the game? Has it made you a better person? Has it altered your
love
for Ogres and Trolls? Perhaps your belief in Leprechauns and Hobbits?
And
why oh why do such seemingly happy peaceful creatures fight like that?
Why
is it that Wizards consistently outperform Magicians, even tho both have
access to the same books of spells? What about those Nomads and Dwarves
that start scattered - they didn't so so well this round. All this, and
more, I'm sure, to follow in many EGS's.
I would like to make a few map tweaks and then run another game in a
little
bit. So any ideas you have be sure to bring up!
Also we're in need of the next Standard GM... so if you want to run a
game
let me know!
Enjoy,
-mike
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