Us Rogues are sneaky --- we actually got 7 builds in Year 1, reported 0 to the IRS, and slowly pulled from the nest egg when needed. 
---------
"Sit Long, Talk Much, Laugh Often" -- anon

"Shared Pain is lessened, Shared Joy is increased" --- Spider Robinson




On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 11:30 AM, Michael Sims <mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.com> wrote:



There is a lot of good talk here on north vs south, and I think it's working out largely how I envisioned... You've got your two witches... the Knights and Ogres... if they get hit early on, the continent remains volatile and the other civs jockey for power.  If either is able to stabilize, then the contient becomes heavily influenced by the K or O and whomever else they're working with.  The Dwarves are the lynchpin that determines how all this shakes out, and their spring 01 moves are extremely powerful... for if the Dwarves open toward Ice, then they set the stage for an early Knight hit, but if they open toward Dev then an Ogre hit is coming.  That's what happened here... the Dwarves snagged Dev in 01, leaving the Ogres buildless while the Knights grew with a safe back side against the Barbarians and Centaurs.  In dc406, we see an entirely different picture.  The Dwarves opened with a convoy to Myth, heading toward neither Ice nor Dev.  Now 10 years in, KOD are the dominant powers in the game.  It all depends on who is playing the positions and what alliances form early. 
 
Some interesting stats... in 5 games complete, 5 civs have managed to never be part of the final draw... Barbarians, Centaurs, Elves, Gnomes, and Leprechauns.  Tho both Gnomes and Elves had a good run in this game, up till their fatal stabs.
 
Jim nailed the key initiatives.  You gotta play like a shark -- If you aren't in an alliance plotting to kill someone off, then you are probly the one slated for sacrifice.  And you want to keep your alliances obscured from the rest of the board.  However bucking this thoughtline, is the fact that Hoffman as the Rogues opened up conceding a 0-build start in 01, yet was one of the final 2.  That is quite remarkable to be a powerhouse by mid-game after having gotten off to the slowest of starts.  It certainly challenges the standard that you need a good start followed by consistent momentum in order to do well.
 


From: Michael Norton [mailto:mjn82(at)yahoo.com]
Sent: Wed 10/3/2012 11:10 AM
Subject: Re: Elves Reply to Ogre EoG



Having played in the North as the archer and the south as the Ogre I agree with Chris.  Much more room to work with and more well defined boundaries up north than in the treacherous realms of the south.  But then,  that's what makes the game interesting.
 
Mike



From: Christopher Lockheardt <clockheardt(at)yahoo.com>

To: Michael Penner <mvpenner(at)yahoo.com>; Jim Burgess <jfburgess(at)gmail.com>; "mrh(at)panix.com" <mrh(at)panix.com>; Michael Norton <mjn82(at)yahoo.com>

Cc: Michael Sims <mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.com>; "diplomacy(at)diffell.net" <diplomacy(at)diffell.net>; "baz.dip(at)gmail.com" <baz.dip(at)gmail.com>; "dipcorp.player(at)gmail.com" <dipcorp.player(at)gmail.com>; "chaosonejoe(at)yahoo.com" <chaosonejoe(at)yahoo.com>; "welsh_stroud(at)msn.com" <welsh_stroud(at)msn.com>; Garry Bledsoe <kielmarch(at)hotmail.com>; "dan.i.sinensky(at)gmail.com" <dan.i.sinensky(at)gmail.com>; Jerome Payne <jerome777(at)ymail.com>; "wealllovekatamari(at)yahoo.com" <wealllovekatamari(at)yahoo.com>; "sandiegosmith(at)hotmail.com" <sandiegosmith(at)hotmail.com>; "Spinozas(at)gmx.net" <Spinozas(at)gmx.net>; "kingkovas(at)gmail.com" <kingkovas(at)gmail.com>; "tiga124(at)aol.com" <tiga124(at)aol.com>; "tomahaha(at)frontiernet.net" <tomahaha(at)frontiernet.net>; dc394 <dc394(at)diplomaticcorp.com>

Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 10:41 AM
Subject: Elves Reply to Ogre EoG



It would indeed have been fun to ally with Mike at the beginning of the game. He's brilliant and chummy.

One thing kept me from doing so: Three River Lake. I identified TRL--which borders two of my home centers, as well as a home center of the Ogres and the Nomads--as the key to my survival. Control it, and I would be a tough nut to crack. Allow a rival fleet to patrol it, and I would be bent over that power's knee.


So the first thing I did in the game was negotiate a DMZ of TRL with the Ogres and Nomads. And the third thing I did, after gaining my first build in Caer, is break it.

Mike, to his credit, worked hard for the remainder of his game to work something out with me and then, failing that, to make me pay for my treachery.


Which to me illustrates the one striking feature of this game. In the southern continent, every foot of conquest was bought with buckets of blood and then more than likely lost the next season. But in the north, the borders of the Knights and Rogues seemed to flow down the map like water.


I suspect it had to do with the cramped quarters in the south. The Ogres and Nomads are landlocked, as essentially was I, trapped behind the long channel flowing between the southern and central continents. There was simply no room to get a running start.


The season that the Knights began their solo run by stabbing every neighbor in sight for five centers, I remember thinking, "There's no way the bunch of us could leave that many centers undefended in the south. We'd have to put three-quarters of our units out to sea first."


Did anyone else note that discrepancy in expansion opportunities? Or was it more a product of the players than the geography?

Chris
 

--- On Wed, 10/3/12, Michael Norton <mjn82(at)yahoo.com> wrote:


From: Michael Norton <mjn82(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Haven victory (An OgresTale)

To: "Michael Penner" <mvpenner(at)yahoo.com>, "Christopher Lockheardt" <clockheardt(at)yahoo.com>, "Jim Burgess" <jfburgess(at)gmail.com>, "mrh(at)panix.com" <mrh(at)panix.com>

Cc: "Michael Sims" <mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.com>, "diplomacy(at)diffell.net" <diplomacy(at)diffell.net>, "baz.dip(at)gmail.com" <baz.dip(at)gmail.com>, "dipcorp.player(at)gmail.com" <dipcorp.player(at)gmail.com>, "chaosonejoe(at)yahoo.com" <chaosonejoe(at)yahoo.com>, "welsh_stroud(at)msn.com" <welsh_stroud(at)msn.com>, "Garry Bledsoe" <kielmarch(at)hotmail.com>, "dan.i.sinensky(at)gmail.com" <dan.i.sinensky(at)gmail.com>, "Jerome Payne" <jerome777(at)ymail.com>, "wealllovekatamari(at)yahoo.com" <wealllovekatamari(at)yahoo.com>, "sandiegosmith(at)hotmail.com" <sandiegosmith(at)hotmail.com>, "Spinozas(at)gmx.net" <Spinozas(at)gmx.net>, "kingkovas(at)gmail.com" <kingkovas(at)gmail.com>, "tiga124(at)aol.com" <tiga124(at)aol.com>, "tomahaha(at)frontiernet.net" <tomahaha(at)frontiernet.net>, "dc394" <dc394(at)diplomaticcorp.com>

Date: Wednesday, October 3, 2012, 11:01 AM



I thought it would be fun to ally with Lockheardt and thought Elves and Ogres would be a good start.   Alas,  Chris had other plans.  I also expected the Dwarves to be tied up protecting his homeland as the last time I played so many wanted a piece of the underworld.  Wrong on both counts and wrong on not cultivating the one friend who was loyal,  the Leprechauns.  Hence the early exit.  Well 2 tries at Haven,  and one draw.  not bad.  we will see again soon.  hope to see some of you in the next Haven
 
Currently occupied filming Shrek IV
Mike


From: Michael Penner <mvpenner(at)yahoo.com>

To: Christopher Lockheardt <clockheardt(at)yahoo.com>; Jim Burgess <jfburgess(at)gmail.com>; "mrh(at)panix.com" <mrh(at)panix.com>

Cc: Michael Sims <mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.com>; "diplomacy(at)diffell.net" <diplomacy(at)diffell.net>; "baz.dip(at)gmail.com" <baz.dip(at)gmail.com>; "dipcorp.player(at)gmail.com" <dipcorp.player(at)gmail.com>; "chaosonejoe(at)yahoo.com" <chaosonejoe(at)yahoo.com>; "welsh_stroud(at)msn.com" <welsh_stroud(at)msn.com>; Garry Bledsoe <kielmarch(at)hotmail.com>; "dan.i.sinensky(at)gmail.com" <dan.i.sinensky(at)gmail.com>; Jerome Payne <jerome777(at)ymail.com>; "wealllovekatamari(at)yahoo.com" <wealllovekatamari(at)yahoo.com>; "mjn82(at)yahoo.com" <mjn82(at)yahoo.com>; "sandiegosmith(at)hotmail.com" <sandiegosmith(at)hotmail.com>; "Spinozas(at)gmx.net" <Spinozas(at)gmx.net>; "kingkovas(at)gmail.com" <kingkovas(at)gmail.com>; "tiga124(at)aol.com" <tiga124(at)aol.com>; "tomahaha(at)frontiernet.net" <tomahaha(at)frontiernet.net>; dc394 <dc394(at)diplomaticcorp.com>

Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2012 11:40 PM
Subject: Re: Haven victory (A Faerie's Take)


I have not been paying any attention to this game since being eliminated, but I'll say I'm not surprised at the result.  Let's see what I remember...Right off the hop, I attempted to work with Hoffman because I've always been frustrated as his enemy and have rarely had the option of being his friend, so I thought since we were nearly neighbours, this would be a good chance for that.  As such, I started off in the direction of the Archers.  Shortly after beating him down, a call came from the Barbarians that the Knights were treacherous and needed to be stopped.  I looked at the situation and agreed.  I appealed to the Nomad, the Dwarf, and the Rogue to join me in knocking him down.  As it turned out, it was only the Barbarian and I who took up the fight.  I remember being frustrated that the Nomad and the Rogue couldn't patch their differences to help in this matter.So, the Knight slowly did away with me, pushing me out into the central sea.  As he expanded, and came in contact with more people, I kept entreating people to avoid allying with him as he seemed to have a history of turning on allies, but one by one, they joined him instead of opposing him.  The only semblance of help I got was from the Dwarf, who helped me survive much longer than I should have, until I ran into an expanding Hobbit who couldn't see the use of keeping me around.So I chose my retreat and sacrificed myself at the feet of a dragon, trying desperately to convince the world that the Knights were to be feared.  So that's why I say I'm not surprised.  Well played, sir!mvp