| DC450 France EOG (dc450) egni Aug 20, 02:57 am |
Sorry ,forgot to include some.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Justin for GMing, you did a great job.
As for the game, It's hard to understand the reason for Russia's glorifying himself for his Solo.
This was more of a joint Italian / Russian cooperation in order to get the Solo for Russia.
It does appear as if the Italian was playing for one purpose - to get a solo for Russia.
Italy conceded his SC (at least 6 SC in 2 turns ) to Russia and instead of trying to fight Russia had been trying to help him even more. Go figure.
As it was more of a joint Italian / Russian solo - congratulations for both Simon and Doug for achieving it.
--Isaac
BTW it turned out that there was a fake email address pretending to be that of Italy, with which I had made quite a lot of dipping, till this day I'm not sure if this email address was Russia or Italy after all.
However this put together with the way Italy was playing made me wonder if there is an Italian player at all. |
| DC450 France EOG (dc450) egni Aug 20, 02:57 am |
Sorry ,forgot to include some.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Justin for GMing, you did a great job.
As for the game, It's hard to understand the reason for Russia's glorifying himself for his Solo.
This was more of a joint Italian / Russian cooperation in order to get the Solo for Russia.
It does appear as if the Italian was playing for one purpose - to get a solo for Russia.
Italy conceded his SC (at least 6 SC in 2 turns ) to Russia and instead of trying to fight Russia had been trying to help him even more. Go figure.
As it was more of a joint Italian / Russian solo - congratulations for both Simon and Doug for achieving it.
--Isaac
BTW it turned out that there was a fake email address pretending to be that of Italy, with which I had made quite a lot of dipping, till this day I'm not sure if this email address was Russia or Italy after all.
However this put together with the way Italy was playing made me wonder if there is an Italian player at all. |
| DC450 France EOG (dc450) garry.bledsoe Aug 20, 10:38 am |
As an unaffected party (and DC Moderator), I think it is only fair to point out several things:
1. Italy (Doug) is a very established player who also publishes Diplomacy World (an e-zine about Diplomacy). While it is odd the way things unraveled I can assure you he is both real and typically a strong, passionate player.
2. With a third solo it might be time to realize that Simon has some weird Jedi Mind Trick that enables him to make the best of us make bad Diplomacy decisions.
3. Having played against him, I can't figure out how he does it and I too have been frustrated and on the receiving end of a Simon beat down. I feel your pain Isaac but so far I have seen nothing that would convince me that he is nothing more than annoyingly good.
As a player-run community we try to self-police any shenanigans; typically if they exist they work themselves out because players have no tolerance for such. I encourage you to join another game and give it a whirl.
Garry
From: isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 10:57:59 +0300
Subject: Re: DC450 France EOG
To: cbconnell(at)gmail.com; diplomacyworld(at)yahoo.com; isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com; kaficek8(at)gmail.com; stevieh(at)taosnet.com; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com; cartesian.i(at)googlemail.com; mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net; kielmarch(at)hotmail.com; dougray3o(at)yahoo.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com; slangers(at)me.com
Sorry ,forgot to include some.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Justin for GMing, you did a great job.
As for the game, It's hard to understand the reason for Russia's glorifying himself for his Solo.
This was more of a joint Italian / Russian cooperation in order to get the Solo for Russia.
It does appear as if the Italian was playing for one purpose - to get a solo for Russia.
Italy conceded his SC (at least 6 SC in 2 turns ) to Russia and instead of trying to fight Russia had been trying to help him even more. Go figure.
As it was more of a joint Italian / Russian solo - congratulations for both Simon and Doug for achieving it.
--Isaac
BTW it turned out that there was a fake email address pretending to be that of Italy, with which I had made quite a lot of dipping, till this day I'm not sure if this email address was Russia or Italy after all.
However this put together with the way Italy was playing made me wonder if there is an Italian player at all. |
| DC450 France EOG (dc450) Slangers Aug 20, 03:31 am |
The Tsar yawns... Any good losers out there? The traditional DC sour grapes are getting boring.
Sent from my iPhone
On 20 Aug 2013, at 08:57, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Sorry ,forgot to include some.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Justin for GMing, you did a great job.
As for the game, It's hard to understand the reason for Russia's glorifying himself for his Solo.
This was more of a joint Italian / Russian cooperation in order to get the Solo for Russia.
It does appear as if the Italian was playing for one purpose - to get a solo for Russia.
Italy conceded his SC (at least 6 SC in 2 turns ) to Russia and instead of trying to fight Russia had been trying to help him even more. Go figure.
As it was more of a joint Italian / Russian solo - congratulations for both Simon and Doug for achieving it.
--Isaac
BTW it turned out that there was a fake email address pretending to be that of Italy, with which I had made quite a lot of dipping, till this day I'm not sure if this email address was Russia or Italy after all.
However this put together with the way Italy was playing made me wonder if there is an Italian player at all. |
| DC450 France EOG (dc450) Slangers Aug 20, 11:42 am |
I will teach you this skill one day, my young padawan
Simon Langley-EvansProfessor of Human NutritionDeputy Head of School of BiosciencesUniversity of Nottingham
On Aug 20, 2013, at 4:38 PM, garry b <kielmarch(at)hotmail.com> wrote:
As an unaffected party (and DC Moderator), I think it is only fair to point out several things:
1. Italy (Doug) is a very established player who also publishes Diplomacy World (an e-zine about Diplomacy). While it is odd the way things unraveled I can assure you he is both real and typically a strong, passionate player.
2. With a third solo it might be time to realize that Simon has some weird Jedi Mind Trick that enables him to make the best of us make bad Diplomacy decisions.
3. Having played against him, I can't figure out how he does it and I too have been frustrated and on the receiving end of a Simon beat down. I feel your pain Isaac but so far I have seen nothing that would convince me that he is nothing more than annoyingly good.
As a player-run community we try to self-police any shenanigans; typically if they exist they work themselves out because players have no tolerance for such. I encourage you to join another game and give it a whirl.
Garry
From: isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 10:57:59 +0300
Subject: Re: DC450 France EOG
To: cbconnell(at)gmail.com; diplomacyworld(at)yahoo.com; isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com; kaficek8(at)gmail.com; stevieh(at)taosnet.com; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com; cartesian.i(at)googlemail.com; mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net; kielmarch(at)hotmail.com; dougray3o(at)yahoo.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com; slangers(at)me.com
Sorry ,forgot to include some.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Justin for GMing, you did a great job.
As for the game, It's hard to understand the reason for Russia's glorifying himself for his Solo.
This was more of a joint Italian / Russian cooperation in order to get the Solo for Russia.
It does appear as if the Italian was playing for one purpose - to get a solo for Russia.
Italy conceded his SC (at least 6 SC in 2 turns ) to Russia and instead of trying to fight Russia had been trying to help him even more. Go figure.
As it was more of a joint Italian / Russian solo - congratulations for both Simon and Doug for achieving it.
--Isaac
BTW it turned out that there was a fake email address pretending to be that of Italy, with which I had made quite a lot of dipping, till this day I'm not sure if this email address was Russia or Italy after all.
However this put together with the way Italy was playing made me wonder if there is an Italian player at all. |
| DC450 France EOG (dc450) egni Aug 21, 04:56 am |
First time ever that I have encountered such a situation where a player was impersonating another one. using a fake email.As far as I understand this is legal, however I do feel it is on the borderline of fair play.
However I have learned my lesson and will be much more careful from now on.Especially when having Simon as a player.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 6:38 PM, garry b <kielmarch(at)hotmail.com> wrote:
As an unaffected party (and DC Moderator), I think it is only fair to point out several things:
1. Italy (Doug) is a very established player who also publishes Diplomacy World (an e-zine about Diplomacy). While it is odd the way things unraveled I can assure you he is both real and typically a strong, passionate player.
2. With a third solo it might be time to realize that Simon has some weird Jedi Mind Trick that enables him to make the best of us make bad Diplomacy decisions.
3. Having played against him, I can't figure out how he does it and I too have been frustrated and on the receiving end of a Simon beat down. I feel your pain Isaac but so far I have seen nothing that would convince me that he is nothing more than annoyingly good.
As a player-run community we try to self-police any shenanigans; typically if they exist they work themselves out because players have no tolerance for such. I encourage you to join another game and give it a whirl.
Garry
From: isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 10:57:59 +0300
Subject: Re: DC450 France EOG
To: cbconnell(at)gmail.com; diplomacyworld(at)yahoo.com; isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com; kaficek8(at)gmail.com; stevieh(at)taosnet.com; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com; cartesian.i(at)googlemail.com; mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net; kielmarch(at)hotmail.com; dougray3o(at)yahoo.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com; slangers(at)me.com
Sorry ,forgot to include some.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Justin for GMing, you did a great job.
As for the game, It's hard to understand the reason for Russia's glorifying himself for his Solo.
This was more of a joint Italian / Russian cooperation in order to get the Solo for Russia.
It does appear as if the Italian was playing for one purpose - to get a solo for Russia.
Italy conceded his SC (at least 6 SC in 2 turns ) to Russia and instead of trying to fight Russia had been trying to help him even more. Go figure.
As it was more of a joint Italian / Russian solo - congratulations for both Simon and Doug for achieving it.
--Isaac
BTW it turned out that there was a fake email address pretending to be that of Italy, with which I had made quite a lot of dipping, till this day I'm not sure if this email address was Russia or Italy after all.
However this put together with the way Italy was playing made me wonder if there is an Italian player at all. |
| DC450 France EOG (dc450) egni Aug 21, 04:57 am |
Given the way Italy was playing before this phony mail issue happened , I doubt it very much , it would have changed anything. As we are talking on period from Spring 06 to Fall 06. Before and after that, Italy was playing just the same old game of supporting Russia without any logical explanation.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 6:47 PM, Douglas Kent <dougray30(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
I will try to write a full EOG later, but let me just state that I "helped"
Russia in the end game for two reasons...one, because nobody would write me
(which leads to reason #2)...and two, France was conducting all his Diplomacy
with Russia thinking it was me, and I felt it only right to punish that
foolishness by eliminating Germany and making sure Russia took the win. It
wouldn't have mattered, because any hope of an E/F/I or F/G/I was destroyed with
France writing to a fake email address...
From: garry b
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 10:38 AM
To: Isaac Zinner ; Craig - Austria
Galad ; Doug1 - France Galad ; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com ; kaficek8(at)gmail.com
; stevieh(at)taosnet.com ; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com ; Cartesian ; Michael
Sims ; Douglas Kent ; Doug2 - France
Galad ; Simon
Langley-Evans
Subject: RE: DC450 France EOG
As an unaffected party (and DC Moderator), I think it is only fair
to point out several things:
1. Italy (Doug) is a very established player
who also publishes Diplomacy World (an e-zine about Diplomacy). While it is odd
the way things unraveled I can assure you he is both real and typically a
strong, passionate player.
2. With a third solo it might be time to
realize that Simon has some weird Jedi Mind Trick that enables him to make the
best of us make bad Diplomacy decisions.
3. Having played against him, I
can't figure out how he does it and I too have been frustrated and on the
receiving end of a Simon beat down. I feel your pain Isaac but so far I have
seen nothing that would convince me that he is nothing more than annoyingly
good.
As a player-run community we try to self-police any shenanigans;
typically if they exist they work themselves out because players have no
tolerance for such. I encourage you to join another game and give it a whirl.
Garry
From: isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 10:57:59
+0300
Subject: Re: DC450 France EOG
To: cbconnell(at)gmail.com;
diplomacyworld(at)yahoo.com; isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com;
kaficek8(at)gmail.com; stevieh(at)taosnet.com; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com;
cartesian.i(at)googlemail.com; mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net; kielmarch(at)hotmail.com;
dougray3o(at)yahoo.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com; slangers(at)me.com
Sorry ,forgot to include some.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Justin for GMing, you did a great job.
As for the game, It's hard to understand the reason for Russia's
glorifying himself for his Solo.
This was more of a joint Italian / Russian cooperation in order to get
the Solo for Russia.
It does appear as if the Italian was playing for one purpose - to get a
solo for Russia.
Italy conceded his SC (at least 6 SC in 2 turns ) to Russia and instead
of trying to fight Russia had been trying to help him even more.
Go figure.
As it was more of a joint Italian / Russian solo -
congratulations for both Simon and Doug for achieving it.
--Isaac
BTW it turned out that there was a fake email address pretending to be
that of Italy, with which I had made quite a lot of dipping, till this day I'm
not sure if this email address was Russia or Italy after all.
However this put together with the way Italy was playing made me wonder
if there is an Italian player at all.
|
| DC450 France EOG (dc450) Slangers Aug 21, 11:32 am |
Can you back that up with actual evidence, as Doug and I had only sporadic communication up to 1906? There were no cooperative moves and I was merely fortunate that the intractable Italy-Austria war allowed me to expand through a friendless Turkey and the Balkans with no credible opposition.
It is very difficult to accurately interpret the motives of other players in the game, especially when the events are not in your immediate sphere of action. For example, until yesterdayI had no idea that Craig had started the game trying to get you all to neutralize me. Craig! I thought you were a friend I had wronged, but now I see your demise was fully deserved. Doug played a strange game from my perspective and the first few years left me baffled as to who he was working with (turned out it was nobody). And Isaac, I felt that you were quite unreasonably wedded to Germany and illogically fixated on eliminating England (a lengthy process when Germany was entirely eastward facing) when working with me to seize German centre was a much better option for you.
As for what's "fair play", I simply refer you to the tag line on the DC site.
"Diplomacy games may contain lying, stabbing, or deliberately deceiving communications that may not be suitable for and may pose a hazard to young children, gullible adults, and small farm animals."
Simon
Simon Langley-EvansProfessor of Human NutritionDeputy Head of School of BiosciencesUniversity of Nottingham
On Aug 21, 2013, at 10:57 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Given the way Italy was playing before this phony mail issue happened , I doubt it very much , it would have changed anything. As we are talking on period from Spring 06 to Fall 06. Before and after that, Italy was playing just the same old game of supporting Russia without any logical explanation.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 6:47 PM, Douglas Kent <dougray30(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
I will try to write a full EOG later, but let me just state that I ???helped???
Russia in the end game for two reasons...one, because nobody would write me
(which leads to reason #2)...and two, France was conducting all his Diplomacy
with Russia thinking it was me, and I felt it only right to punish that
foolishness by eliminating Germany and making sure Russia took the win. It
wouldn???t have mattered, because any hope of an E/F/I or F/G/I was destroyed with
France writing to a fake email address...
From: garry b
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 10:38 AM
To: Isaac Zinner ; Craig - Austria
Galad ; Doug1 - France Galad ; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com ; kaficek8(at)gmail.com
; stevieh(at)taosnet.com ; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com ; Cartesian ; Michael
Sims ; Douglas Kent ; Doug2 - France
Galad ; Simon
Langley-Evans
Subject: RE: DC450 France EOG
As an unaffected party (and DC Moderator), I think it is only fair
to point out several things:
1. Italy (Doug) is a very established player
who also publishes Diplomacy World (an e-zine about Diplomacy). While it is odd
the way things unraveled I can assure you he is both real and typically a
strong, passionate player.
2. With a third solo it might be time to
realize that Simon has some weird Jedi Mind Trick that enables him to make the
best of us make bad Diplomacy decisions.
3. Having played against him, I
can't figure out how he does it and I too have been frustrated and on the
receiving end of a Simon beat down. I feel your pain Isaac but so far I have
seen nothing that would convince me that he is nothing more than annoyingly
good.
As a player-run community we try to self-police any shenanigans;
typically if they exist they work themselves out because players have no
tolerance for such. I encourage you to join another game and give it a whirl.
Garry
From: isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 10:57:59
+0300
Subject: Re: DC450 France EOG
To: cbconnell(at)gmail.com;
diplomacyworld(at)yahoo.com; isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com;
kaficek8(at)gmail.com; stevieh(at)taosnet.com; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com;
cartesian.i(at)googlemail.com; mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net; kielmarch(at)hotmail.com;
dougray3o(at)yahoo.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com; slangers(at)me.com
Sorry ,forgot to include some.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Justin for GMing, you did a great job.
As for the game, It's hard to understand the reason for Russia's
glorifying himself for his Solo.
This was more of a joint Italian / Russian cooperation in order to get
the Solo for Russia.
It does appear as if the Italian was playing for one purpose - to get a
solo for Russia.
Italy conceded his SC (at least 6 SC in 2 turns ) to Russia and instead
of trying to fight Russia had been trying to help him even more.
Go figure.
As it was more of a joint Italian / Russian solo -
congratulations for both Simon and Doug for achieving it.
--Isaac
BTW it turned out that there was a fake email address pretending to be
that of Italy, with which I had made quite a lot of dipping, till this day I'm
not sure if this email address was Russia or Italy after all.
However this put together with the way Italy was playing made me wonder
if there is an Italian player at all.
|
| DC450 France EOG (dc450) cbconnell Aug 21, 12:00 pm |
No hard feelings I hope Simon? Obviously none of those plans really worked to help me.
This was a strange game from my perspective as well. Everyone seemed to be out for them self with no interest in making any solid alliances. Even after the stab in Norway, Simon was kind enough to do what he said he would do in helping me against Germany.
As to impersonating players.. I understand that even back in the days of playing by postal mail, attempts were made to impersonate other players. Even today, the use of Gray or Black press is an attempt at impersonation. While players may not experience this kind of email impersonation in most games played on Diplomaticcorp, I don't see any problems if it is done. The real problem is the player who is not careful enough to know who he is communicating with (I am guilty of THAT myself in this game).
Craig
On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 10:32 AM, Simon Langley-Evans <slangers(at)me.com> wrote:
Can you back that up with actual evidence, as Doug and I had only sporadic communication up to 1906? There were no cooperative moves and I was merely fortunate that the intractable Italy-Austria war allowed me to expand through a friendless Turkey and the Balkans with no credible opposition.
It is very difficult to accurately interpret the motives of other players in the game, especially when the events are not in your immediate sphere of action. For example, until yesterdayI had no idea that Craig had started the game trying to get you all to neutralize me. Craig! I thought you were a friend I had wronged, but now I see your demise was fully deserved. Doug played a strange game from my perspective and the first few years left me baffled as to who he was working with (turned out it was nobody). And Isaac, I felt that you were quite unreasonably wedded to Germany and illogically fixated on eliminating England (a lengthy process when Germany was entirely eastward facing) when working with me to seize German centre was a much better option for you.??
As for what's "fair play", I simply refer you to the tag line on the DC site.??
"Diplomacy games may contain lying, stabbing, or deliberately deceiving communications that may not be suitable for and may pose a hazard to young children, gullible adults, and small farm animals."
Simon
Simon Langley-EvansProfessor of Human Nutrition
Deputy Head of School of BiosciencesUniversity of Nottingham
On Aug 21, 2013, at 10:57 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Given the way ??Italy was playing before this phony mail issue happened , I doubt it very much , it would have changed anything.??As we are talking on period from Spring 06 to Fall 06. ??Before and after that, Italy was playing just the same old game of supporting Russia without any logical explanation.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 6:47 PM, Douglas Kent <dougray30(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
I will try to write a full EOG later, but let me just state that I ???helped???
Russia in the end game for two reasons...one, because nobody would write me
(which leads to reason #2)...and two, France was conducting all his Diplomacy
with Russia thinking it was me, and I felt it only right to punish that
foolishness by eliminating Germany and making sure Russia took the win.?? It
wouldn???t have mattered, because any hope of an E/F/I or F/G/I was destroyed with
France writing to a fake email address...
??
From: garry b
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 10:38 AM
To: Isaac Zinner ; Craig - Austria
Galad ; Doug1 - France Galad ; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com ; kaficek8(at)gmail.com
; stevieh(at)taosnet.com ; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com ; Cartesian ; Michael
Sims ; Douglas Kent ; Doug2 - France
Galad ; Simon
Langley-Evans
Subject: RE: DC450 France EOG
??
As an unaffected party (and DC Moderator), I think it is only fair
to point out several things:
1. Italy (Doug) is a very established player
who also publishes Diplomacy World (an e-zine about Diplomacy). While it is odd
the way things unraveled I can assure you he is both real and typically a
strong, passionate player.
2. With a third solo it might be time to
realize that Simon has some weird Jedi Mind Trick that enables him to make the
best of us make bad Diplomacy decisions.
3. Having played against him, I
can't figure out how he does it and I too have been frustrated and on the
receiving end of a Simon beat down. I feel your pain Isaac but so far I have
seen nothing that would convince me that he is nothing more than annoyingly
good.
As a player-run community we try to self-police any shenanigans;
typically if they exist they work themselves out because players have no
tolerance for such. I encourage you to join another game and give it a whirl.
Garry
From: isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 10:57:59
+0300
Subject: Re: DC450 France EOG
To: cbconnell(at)gmail.com;
diplomacyworld(at)yahoo.com; isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com;
kaficek8(at)gmail.com; stevieh(at)taosnet.com; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com;
cartesian.i(at)googlemail.com; mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net; kielmarch(at)hotmail.com;
dougray3o(at)yahoo.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com; slangers(at)me.com
Sorry ,forgot to include some.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Justin for GMing, you did a great job.
??
As for the game, It's hard to understand the reason for Russia's
glorifying himself for his Solo.
This was more of a joint Italian / Russian cooperation in order to get
the Solo for Russia.
It does appear as if the Italian was playing for one purpose - to get a
solo for Russia.
??
Italy conceded his SC (at least 6 SC in 2 turns ) to Russia and instead
of trying to fight Russia had been trying to help him even more.????
Go figure.
??
As it was more of a joint Italian / Russian solo?? -??
congratulations for both Simon and Doug for achieving it.
??
--Isaac
??
??
BTW it turned out that there was a fake email address pretending to be
that of Italy, with which I had made quite a lot of dipping, till this day I'm
not sure if this email address was Russia or Italy after all.
??
However this put together with the way Italy was playing made me wonder
if there is an Italian player at all.
?? |
| DC450 France EOG (dc450) Slangers Aug 21, 12:42 pm |
Of course no hard feelings Craig. Only a fool takes grudges from one game to another.
Simon
Simon Langley-EvansProfessor of Human NutritionDeputy Head of School of BiosciencesUniversity of Nottingham
On Aug 21, 2013, at 6:00 PM, Craig Connell <cbconnell(at)gmail.com> wrote:
No hard feelings I hope Simon? Obviously none of those plans really worked to help me.
This was a strange game from my perspective as well. Everyone seemed to be out for them self with no interest in making any solid alliances. Even after the stab in Norway, Simon was kind enough to do what he said he would do in helping me against Germany.
As to impersonating players.. I understand that even back in the days of playing by postal mail, attempts were made to impersonate other players. Even today, the use of Gray or Black press is an attempt at impersonation. While players may not experience this kind of email impersonation in most games played on Diplomaticcorp, I don't see any problems if it is done. The real problem is the player who is not careful enough to know who he is communicating with (I am guilty of THAT myself in this game).
Craig
On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 10:32 AM, Simon Langley-Evans <slangers(at)me.com> wrote:
Can you back that up with actual evidence, as Doug and I had only sporadic communication up to 1906? There were no cooperative moves and I was merely fortunate that the intractable Italy-Austria war allowed me to expand through a friendless Turkey and the Balkans with no credible opposition.
It is very difficult to accurately interpret the motives of other players in the game, especially when the events are not in your immediate sphere of action. For example, until yesterdayI had no idea that Craig had started the game trying to get you all to neutralize me. Craig! I thought you were a friend I had wronged, but now I see your demise was fully deserved. Doug played a strange game from my perspective and the first few years left me baffled as to who he was working with (turned out it was nobody). And Isaac, I felt that you were quite unreasonably wedded to Germany and illogically fixated on eliminating England (a lengthy process when Germany was entirely eastward facing) when working with me to seize German centre was a much better option for you.
As for what's "fair play", I simply refer you to the tag line on the DC site.
"Diplomacy games may contain lying, stabbing, or deliberately deceiving communications that may not be suitable for and may pose a hazard to young children, gullible adults, and small farm animals."
Simon
Simon Langley-EvansProfessor of Human Nutrition
Deputy Head of School of BiosciencesUniversity of Nottingham
On Aug 21, 2013, at 10:57 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Given the way Italy was playing before this phony mail issue happened , I doubt it very much , it would have changed anything. As we are talking on period from Spring 06 to Fall 06. Before and after that, Italy was playing just the same old game of supporting Russia without any logical explanation.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 6:47 PM, Douglas Kent <dougray30(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
I will try to write a full EOG later, but let me just state that I ???helped???
Russia in the end game for two reasons...one, because nobody would write me
(which leads to reason #2)...and two, France was conducting all his Diplomacy
with Russia thinking it was me, and I felt it only right to punish that
foolishness by eliminating Germany and making sure Russia took the win. It
wouldn???t have mattered, because any hope of an E/F/I or F/G/I was destroyed with
France writing to a fake email address...
From: garry b
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 10:38 AM
To: Isaac Zinner ; Craig - Austria
Galad ; Doug1 - France Galad ; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com ; kaficek8(at)gmail.com
; stevieh(at)taosnet.com ; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com ; Cartesian ; Michael
Sims ; Douglas Kent ; Doug2 - France
Galad ; Simon
Langley-Evans
Subject: RE: DC450 France EOG
As an unaffected party (and DC Moderator), I think it is only fair
to point out several things:
1. Italy (Doug) is a very established player
who also publishes Diplomacy World (an e-zine about Diplomacy). While it is odd
the way things unraveled I can assure you he is both real and typically a
strong, passionate player.
2. With a third solo it might be time to
realize that Simon has some weird Jedi Mind Trick that enables him to make the
best of us make bad Diplomacy decisions.
3. Having played against him, I
can't figure out how he does it and I too have been frustrated and on the
receiving end of a Simon beat down. I feel your pain Isaac but so far I have
seen nothing that would convince me that he is nothing more than annoyingly
good.
As a player-run community we try to self-police any shenanigans;
typically if they exist they work themselves out because players have no
tolerance for such. I encourage you to join another game and give it a whirl.
Garry
From: isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 10:57:59
+0300
Subject: Re: DC450 France EOG
To: cbconnell(at)gmail.com;
diplomacyworld(at)yahoo.com; isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com;
kaficek8(at)gmail.com; stevieh(at)taosnet.com; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com;
cartesian.i(at)googlemail.com; mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net; kielmarch(at)hotmail.com;
dougray3o(at)yahoo.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com; slangers(at)me.com
Sorry ,forgot to include some.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Justin for GMing, you did a great job.
As for the game, It's hard to understand the reason for Russia's
glorifying himself for his Solo.
This was more of a joint Italian / Russian cooperation in order to get
the Solo for Russia.
It does appear as if the Italian was playing for one purpose - to get a
solo for Russia.
Italy conceded his SC (at least 6 SC in 2 turns ) to Russia and instead
of trying to fight Russia had been trying to help him even more.
Go figure.
As it was more of a joint Italian / Russian solo -
congratulations for both Simon and Doug for achieving it.
--Isaac
BTW it turned out that there was a fake email address pretending to be
that of Italy, with which I had made quite a lot of dipping, till this day I'm
not sure if this email address was Russia or Italy after all.
However this put together with the way Italy was playing made me wonder
if there is an Italian player at all.
|
| DC450 France EOG (dc450) egni Aug 22, 02:01 am |
Till 1906 Italy was fighting Austria , and would not stop ( Steve did asked them so a couple of times ) , though it was clear there was a huge Russia emerging. So till then there is no direct evidence.However in Spring 1906 ( while I was conducting a lot of dip with the other Doug ) and Russia had 12 !! SC and was a clear threat , what did Italy do ?
Did he try to stop Russia ? the other way round, he ordered this :
A Tyrolia - Munich - - This had Russian support A Venice - Piedmont
Italy decided to turn West and attack France and Germany with Russian support.
On Fall 1906 he ordered:
F Ionian Sea - Tyrrhenian SeaA Piedmont - Marseilles (*Bounce*)
A Munich Supports A Russia Galicia - Silesia (*Void*)
Italy continued to attack France. while leaving Russia to continue to grow to 14 SC. and then said it is too late to stop Russia.And during all this time he never tried to approach me .( while I thought I'm dipping with him).
I don't see why working with you to eliminate Germany was a much better option for me , since it was clear Germany was going to attack youAnd having Russia growing on and on with no one to stop it wasn't in my interest. ( Although it apparently was an Italian one).
As for "fair play" I still feel that impersonating another player might be a legal and victorious way of a play , however it's on the very edge of "fair play".I have learned much from this , and will do my best not to fall for this dirty ( and legal ) trick a second time.
On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 7:32 PM, Simon Langley-Evans <slangers(at)me.com> wrote:
Can you back that up with actual evidence, as Doug and I had only sporadic communication up to 1906? There were no cooperative moves and I was merely fortunate that the intractable Italy-Austria war allowed me to expand through a friendless Turkey and the Balkans with no credible opposition.
It is very difficult to accurately interpret the motives of other players in the game, especially when the events are not in your immediate sphere of action. For example, until yesterdayI had no idea that Craig had started the game trying to get you all to neutralize me. Craig! I thought you were a friend I had wronged, but now I see your demise was fully deserved. Doug played a strange game from my perspective and the first few years left me baffled as to who he was working with (turned out it was nobody). And Isaac, I felt that you were quite unreasonably wedded to Germany and illogically fixated on eliminating England (a lengthy process when Germany was entirely eastward facing) when working with me to seize German centre was a much better option for you.
As for what's "fair play", I simply refer you to the tag line on the DC site.
"Diplomacy games may contain lying, stabbing, or deliberately deceiving communications that may not be suitable for and may pose a hazard to young children, gullible adults, and small farm animals."
Simon
Simon Langley-EvansProfessor of Human Nutrition
Deputy Head of School of BiosciencesUniversity of Nottingham
On Aug 21, 2013, at 10:57 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Given the way Italy was playing before this phony mail issue happened , I doubt it very much , it would have changed anything. As we are talking on period from Spring 06 to Fall 06. Before and after that, Italy was playing just the same old game of supporting Russia without any logical explanation.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 6:47 PM, Douglas Kent <dougray30(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
I will try to write a full EOG later, but let me just state that I "helped"
Russia in the end game for two reasons...one, because nobody would write me
(which leads to reason #2)...and two, France was conducting all his Diplomacy
with Russia thinking it was me, and I felt it only right to punish that
foolishness by eliminating Germany and making sure Russia took the win. It
wouldn't have mattered, because any hope of an E/F/I or F/G/I was destroyed with
France writing to a fake email address...
From: garry b
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 10:38 AM
To: Isaac Zinner ; Craig - Austria
Galad ; Doug1 - France Galad ; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com ; kaficek8(at)gmail.com
; stevieh(at)taosnet.com ; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com ; Cartesian ; Michael
Sims ; Douglas Kent ; Doug2 - France
Galad ; Simon
Langley-Evans
Subject: RE: DC450 France EOG
As an unaffected party (and DC Moderator), I think it is only fair
to point out several things:
1. Italy (Doug) is a very established player
who also publishes Diplomacy World (an e-zine about Diplomacy). While it is odd
the way things unraveled I can assure you he is both real and typically a
strong, passionate player.
2. With a third solo it might be time to
realize that Simon has some weird Jedi Mind Trick that enables him to make the
best of us make bad Diplomacy decisions.
3. Having played against him, I
can't figure out how he does it and I too have been frustrated and on the
receiving end of a Simon beat down. I feel your pain Isaac but so far I have
seen nothing that would convince me that he is nothing more than annoyingly
good.
As a player-run community we try to self-police any shenanigans;
typically if they exist they work themselves out because players have no
tolerance for such. I encourage you to join another game and give it a whirl.
Garry
From: isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 10:57:59
+0300
Subject: Re: DC450 France EOG
To: cbconnell(at)gmail.com;
diplomacyworld(at)yahoo.com; isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com;
kaficek8(at)gmail.com; stevieh(at)taosnet.com; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com;
cartesian.i(at)googlemail.com; mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net; kielmarch(at)hotmail.com;
dougray3o(at)yahoo.com; dougray30(at)yahoo.com; slangers(at)me.com
Sorry ,forgot to include some.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Justin for GMing, you did a great job.
As for the game, It's hard to understand the reason for Russia's
glorifying himself for his Solo.
This was more of a joint Italian / Russian cooperation in order to get
the Solo for Russia.
It does appear as if the Italian was playing for one purpose - to get a
solo for Russia.
Italy conceded his SC (at least 6 SC in 2 turns ) to Russia and instead
of trying to fight Russia had been trying to help him even more.
Go figure.
As it was more of a joint Italian / Russian solo -
congratulations for both Simon and Doug for achieving it.
--Isaac
BTW it turned out that there was a fake email address pretending to be
that of Italy, with which I had made quite a lot of dipping, till this day I'm
not sure if this email address was Russia or Italy after all.
However this put together with the way Italy was playing made me wonder
if there is an Italian player at all.
|
| DC450 France EOG (dc450) egni Aug 22, 02:18 am |
I don't think so,I have written as a reply to Simon, why I think so.
On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 8:24 PM, Douglas Kent <dougray30(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
I think, Isaac, you are blatantly mischaracterizing my moves up to the
final game year or two....in other words, up to when you were conducting "my"
diplomacy with someone else....
From: Simon Langley-Evans
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 11:32 AM
To: Isaac Zinner
Cc: Douglas Kent ; Craig - Austria
Galad ; Doug1 - France Galad ; Jeremiah
Attento ; kaficek8(at)gmail.com ; Steve Hills ; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com ; Douglas Kent ;
John
Langley
Subject: Re: DC450 France EOG
Can you back that up with actual
evidence, as Doug and I had only sporadic communication up to 1906? There were
no cooperative moves and I was merely fortunate that the intractable
Italy-Austria war allowed me to expand through a friendless Turkey and the
Balkans with no credible opposition.
It is very difficult to accurately
interpret the motives of other players in the game, especially when the events
are not in your immediate sphere of action. For example, until yesterdayI had no
idea that Craig had started the game trying to get you all to neutralize me.
Craig! I thought you were a friend I had wronged, but now I see your demise was
fully deserved. Doug played a strange game from my perspective and the first few
years left me baffled as to who he was working with (turned out it was nobody).
And Isaac, I felt that you were quite unreasonably wedded to Germany and
illogically fixated on eliminating England (a lengthy process when Germany was
entirely eastward facing) when working with me to seize German centre was a much
better option for you.
As for what's "fair play", I simply
refer you to the tag line on the DC site.
"Diplomacy
games may contain lying, stabbing, or deliberately deceiving communications that
may not be suitable for and may pose a hazard to young children, gullible
adults, and small farm animals."
Simon
Simon Langley-Evans
Professor of Human Nutrition
Deputy Head of School of Biosciences
University of Nottingham
On Aug 21, 2013, at 10:57 AM,
Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com>
wrote:
Given the way Italy was playing before this phony mail issue
happened , I doubt it very much , it would have changed anything.
As we are talking on period from Spring 06 to Fall 06. Before and
after that, Italy was playing just the same old game of supporting Russia
without any logical explanation.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 6:47 PM, Douglas Kent <dougray30(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
I will try to write a full EOG later, but let me just state that I
"helped" Russia in the end game for two reasons...one, because nobody would
write me (which leads to reason #2)...and two, France was conducting all his
Diplomacy with Russia thinking it was me, and I felt it only right to punish
that foolishness by eliminating Germany and making sure Russia took the
win. It wouldn't have mattered, because any hope of an E/F/I or F/G/I
was destroyed with France writing to a fake email address...
From: garry b
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 10:38 AM
To: Isaac Zinner ; Craig - Austria Galad ; Doug1 - France
Galad ; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com
; kaficek8(at)gmail.com ; stevieh(at)taosnet.com ; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com ; Cartesian ; Michael Sims ; Douglas Kent ; Doug2 - France Galad ;
Simon
Langley-Evans
Subject: RE: DC450 France EOG
As an unaffected party (and DC Moderator), I think it is only
fair to point out several things:
1. Italy (Doug) is a very
established player who also publishes Diplomacy World (an e-zine about
Diplomacy). While it is odd the way things unraveled I can assure you he is
both real and typically a strong, passionate player.
2. With a third
solo it might be time to realize that Simon has some weird Jedi Mind Trick
that enables him to make the best of us make bad Diplomacy
decisions.
3. Having played against him, I can't figure out how he
does it and I too have been frustrated and on the receiving end of a Simon
beat down. I feel your pain Isaac but so far I have seen nothing that would
convince me that he is nothing more than annoyingly good.
As a
player-run community we try to self-police any shenanigans; typically if
they exist they work themselves out because players have no tolerance for
such. I encourage you to join another game and give it a whirl.
Garry
From: isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 10:57:59
+0300
Subject: Re: DC450 France EOG
To: cbconnell(at)gmail.com; diplomacyworld(at)yahoo.com; isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com;
kaficek8(at)gmail.com; stevieh(at)taosnet.com; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com; cartesian.i(at)googlemail.com; mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net; kielmarch(at)hotmail.com;
dougray3o(at)yahoo.com;
dougray30(at)yahoo.com;
slangers(at)me.com
Sorry ,forgot to include some.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Justin for GMing, you did a great job.
As for the game, It's hard to understand the reason for Russia's
glorifying himself for his Solo.
This was more of a joint Italian / Russian cooperation in order to
get the Solo for Russia.
It does appear as if the Italian was playing for one purpose - to get
a solo for Russia.
Italy conceded his SC (at least 6 SC in 2 turns ) to Russia and
instead of trying to fight Russia had been trying to help him even
more. Go figure.
As it was more of a joint Italian / Russian solo -
congratulations for both Simon and Doug for achieving it.
--Isaac
BTW it turned out that there was a fake email address pretending to
be that of Italy, with which I had made quite a lot of dipping, till this
day I'm not sure if this email address was Russia or Italy after all.
However this put together with the way Italy was playing made me
wonder if there is an Italian player at all.
|
| DC450 France EOG (dc450) egni Aug 22, 06:55 am |
I thought you knew about it ONLY AFTER Fall 1906, Now I see you knew about it already from 1906. When it all started. So apparently you did work with him from 1906 , just as I said you did.
And now it is me who gave Simon the game and it's all my fault. Unfortunately, I still can't understand you. However if that makes you feel better, suit yourself. I don't mind.
On a side note, I don't take diplomacy games ( or any other game for that matter ) personally. And I'm ready to accept losing games or being eliminated, I've had my share of both.
Therefore I didn't get angry and I hope I wasn't rude by anyway. If you think that helping Simon ( who did take Steve's comments personally and who REALLY got angry ) is a punishment for me , so be it , though I think this is somewhat childish.
On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Douglas Kent <dougray30(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
Exactly Isaac...1906...BEFORE that I was not working with Russia.
Once it became clear that YOU personally had given Russia a huge advantage by
telegraphing moves to the wrong player, making it nearly impossible to stop him
from winning, I congratulated Simon on his sneakiness and he agreed that rather
than attack me we would punish the foolishness of the person who made it so easy
for him to win. We would eliminate Germany and he would hold off from
taking 18 until then, and I would attack you...if there was a way to eliminate
you too before he got to 18 we would have done that. But it was too
difficult to figure out.
The reason for the attack wasn't just because you gave him the game by
falling for his tricks, but also because you were unable to see how funny they
were. You got angry. *I'm* the one he impersonated and *I* saw how
funny it was that you fell for it hook line and sinker. Those who get
angry (or rude) over a game of Diplomacy should be punished....so I agreed to
make Simon's victory take less time, not drag it out.
From: Isaac Zinner
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 2:01 AM
To: Simon
Langley-Evans
Cc: Douglas Kent ; Craig - Austria
Galad ; Doug1 - France Galad ; Jeremiah
Attento ; kaficek8(at)gmail.com ; Steve Hills ; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com ; Douglas Kent ;
John
Langley
Subject: Re: DC450 France EOG
Till 1906 Italy was fighting Austria , and would not stop ( Steve
did asked them so a couple of times ) , though it was clear there was a huge
Russia emerging. So till then there is no direct evidence.
However in Spring 1906 ( while I was conducting a lot of dip with the other
Doug ) and Russia had 12 !! SC and was a clear threat , what did Italy do
?
Did he try to stop Russia ? the other way round, he ordered this
:
A Tyrolia - Munich - - This had Russian support
A Venice - Piedmont
Italy decided to turn West and attack France and Germany with Russian
support.
On Fall 1906 he ordered:
F Ionian Sea - Tyrrhenian Sea
A Piedmont - Marseilles (*Bounce*)
A Munich Supports A Russia Galicia - Silesia (*Void*)
Italy continued to attack France. while leaving Russia to continue to grow
to 14 SC. and then said it is too late to stop Russia.
And during all this time he never tried to approach me .( while I thought
I'm dipping with him).
I don't see why working with you to eliminate Germany was a much better
option for me , since it was clear Germany was going to attack you
And having Russia growing on and on with no one to stop it wasn't in my
interest. ( Although it apparently was an Italian one).
As for "fair play" I still feel that impersonating another player might be
a legal and victorious way of a play , however it's on the very edge of "fair
play".
I have learned much from this , and will do my best not to fall for this
dirty ( and legal ) trick a second time.
On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 7:32 PM, Simon Langley-Evans
<slangers(at)me.com> wrote:
Can you back that up with actual evidence, as Doug and I had only
sporadic communication up to 1906? There were no cooperative moves and I was
merely fortunate that the intractable Italy-Austria war allowed me to expand
through a friendless Turkey and the Balkans with no credible opposition.
It is very difficult to accurately interpret the motives of other players
in the game, especially when the events are not in your immediate sphere of
action. For example, until yesterdayI had no idea that Craig had started the
game trying to get you all to neutralize me. Craig! I thought you were a
friend I had wronged, but now I see your demise was fully deserved. Doug
played a strange game from my perspective and the first few years left me
baffled as to who he was working with (turned out it was nobody). And Isaac, I
felt that you were quite unreasonably wedded to Germany and illogically
fixated on eliminating England (a lengthy process when Germany was entirely
eastward facing) when working with me to seize German centre was a much better
option for you.
As for what's "fair play", I simply refer you to the tag line on the DC
site.
"Diplomacy games may contain lying, stabbing, or deliberately
deceiving communications that may not be suitable for and may pose a hazard to
young children, gullible adults, and small farm
animals."
Simon
Simon Langley-Evans
Professor of Human Nutrition
Deputy Head of School of Biosciences
University of Nottingham
On Aug 21, 2013, at 10:57 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Given the way Italy was playing before this phony mail issue
happened , I doubt it very much , it would have changed anything.
As we are talking on period from Spring 06 to Fall 06. Before and
after that, Italy was playing just the same old game of supporting Russia
without any logical explanation.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 6:47 PM, Douglas Kent <dougray30(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
I will try to write a full EOG later, but let me just state that I
"helped" Russia in the end game for two reasons...one, because nobody
would write me (which leads to reason #2)...and two, France was conducting
all his Diplomacy with Russia thinking it was me, and I felt it only right
to punish that foolishness by eliminating Germany and making sure Russia
took the win. It wouldn't have mattered, because any hope of an
E/F/I or F/G/I was destroyed with France writing to a fake email
address...
From: garry b
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 10:38 AM
To: Isaac Zinner ; Craig - Austria Galad ; Doug1 - France Galad ; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com ; kaficek8(at)gmail.com ; stevieh(at)taosnet.com ; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com ; Cartesian ; Michael Sims ; Douglas Kent ; Doug2 - France Galad ;
Simon
Langley-Evans
Subject: RE: DC450 France EOG
As an unaffected party (and DC Moderator), I think it is only
fair to point out several things:
1. Italy (Doug) is a very
established player who also publishes Diplomacy World (an e-zine about
Diplomacy). While it is odd the way things unraveled I can assure you he
is both real and typically a strong, passionate player.
2. With a
third solo it might be time to realize that Simon has some weird Jedi Mind
Trick that enables him to make the best of us make bad Diplomacy
decisions.
3. Having played against him, I can't figure out how he
does it and I too have been frustrated and on the receiving end of a Simon
beat down. I feel your pain Isaac but so far I have seen nothing that
would convince me that he is nothing more than annoyingly good.
As
a player-run community we try to self-police any shenanigans; typically if
they exist they work themselves out because players have no tolerance for
such. I encourage you to join another game and give it a whirl.
Garry
From: isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013
10:57:59 +0300
Subject: Re: DC450 France EOG
To: cbconnell(at)gmail.com;
diplomacyworld(at)yahoo.com; isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com; kaficek8(at)gmail.com; stevieh(at)taosnet.com;
dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com; cartesian.i(at)googlemail.com; mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net; kielmarch(at)hotmail.com; dougray3o(at)yahoo.com;
dougray30(at)yahoo.com; slangers(at)me.com
Sorry ,forgot to include some.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Justin for GMing, you did a great job.
As for the game, It's hard to understand the reason for Russia's
glorifying himself for his Solo.
This was more of a joint Italian / Russian cooperation in order to
get the Solo for Russia.
It does appear as if the Italian was playing for one purpose - to
get a solo for Russia.
Italy conceded his SC (at least 6 SC in 2 turns ) to Russia and
instead of trying to fight Russia had been trying to help him even
more. Go figure.
As it was more of a joint Italian / Russian solo -
congratulations for both Simon and Doug for achieving it.
--Isaac
BTW it turned out that there was a fake email address pretending to
be that of Italy, with which I had made quite a lot of dipping, till
this day I'm not sure if this email address was Russia or Italy after
all.
However this put together with the way Italy was playing made me
wonder if there is an Italian player at
all.
|
| DC450 France EOG (dc450) Slangers Aug 22, 08:00 am |
I guess what you are all trying to do is say "well done, Simon". I accept your good wishes graciously. 
S
Simon Langley-EvansProfessor of Human NutritionDeputy Head of School of BiosciencesUniversity of Nottingham
On Aug 22, 2013, at 1:08 PM, Douglas Kent <dougray30(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
Motivations in Diplomacy are different for different people in different
situations when you are no longer going to win.....
From: Isaac Zinner
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 6:55 AM
To: Douglas Kent
Cc: Simon
Langley-Evans ; Craig - Austria Galad ; Doug1 -
France Galad ; Jeremiah Attento ; kaficek8(at)gmail.com
; Steve Hills
; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com ; Douglas Kent ;
John
Langley
Subject: Re: DC450 France EOG
I thought you knew about it ONLY AFTER Fall 1906,
Now I see you knew about it already from 1906. When it all started.
So apparently you did work with him from 1906 , just as I said you
did.
And now it is me who gave Simon the game and it's all my fault.
Unfortunately, I still can't understand you. However if that makes you feel
better, suit yourself. I don't mind.
On a side note, I don't take diplomacy games ( or any other game for that
matter ) personally. And I'm ready to accept losing games or being eliminated,
I've had my share of both.
Therefore I didn't get angry and I hope I wasn't rude by anyway.
If you think that helping Simon ( who did take Steve's comments personally
and who REALLY got angry ) is a punishment for me , so be it , though I think
this is somewhat childish.
On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Douglas Kent <dougray30(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
Exactly Isaac...1906...BEFORE that I was not working with Russia.
Once it became clear that YOU personally had given Russia a huge advantage by
telegraphing moves to the wrong player, making it nearly impossible to stop
him from winning, I congratulated Simon on his sneakiness and he agreed that
rather than attack me we would punish the foolishness of the person who made
it so easy for him to win. We would eliminate Germany and he would hold
off from taking 18 until then, and I would attack you...if there was a way to
eliminate you too before he got to 18 we would have done that. But it
was too difficult to figure out.
The reason for the attack wasn???t just because you gave him the game by
falling for his tricks, but also because you were unable to see how funny they
were. You got angry. *I???m* the one he impersonated and *I* saw how
funny it was that you fell for it hook line and sinker. Those who get
angry (or rude) over a game of Diplomacy should be punished....so I agreed to
make Simon???s victory take less time, not drag it out.
From: Isaac Zinner
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 2:01 AM
To: Simon Langley-Evans
Cc: Douglas Kent ; Craig - Austria Galad ; Doug1 - France Galad ; Jeremiah Attento ; kaficek8(at)gmail.com ; Steve Hills ; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com ; Douglas Kent ; John Langley
Subject: Re: DC450 France EOG
Till 1906 Italy was fighting Austria , and would not stop ( Steve
did asked them so a couple of times ) , though it was clear there was a huge
Russia emerging. So till then there is no direct evidence.
However in Spring 1906 ( while I was conducting a lot of dip with the
other Doug ) and Russia had 12 !! SC and was a clear threat , what did Italy
do ?
Did he try to stop Russia ? the other way round, he ordered this
:
A Tyrolia - Munich - - This had Russian support
A Venice - Piedmont
Italy decided to turn West and attack France and Germany with Russian
support.
On Fall 1906 he ordered:
F Ionian Sea - Tyrrhenian Sea
A Piedmont - Marseilles (*Bounce*)
A Munich Supports A Russia Galicia - Silesia (*Void*)
Italy continued to attack France. while leaving Russia to continue to
grow to 14 SC. and then said it is too late to stop Russia.
And during all this time he never tried to approach me .( while I thought
I'm dipping with him).
I don't see why working with you to eliminate Germany was a much better
option for me , since it was clear Germany was going to attack you
And having Russia growing on and on with no one to stop it wasn't in my
interest. ( Although it apparently was an Italian one).
As for "fair play" I still feel that impersonating another player might
be a legal and victorious way of a play , however it's on the very edge of
"fair play".
I have learned much from this , and will do my best not to fall for this
dirty ( and legal ) trick a second time.
On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 7:32 PM, Simon Langley-Evans
<slangers(at)me.com> wrote:
Can you back that up with actual evidence, as Doug and I had only
sporadic communication up to 1906? There were no cooperative moves and I was
merely fortunate that the intractable Italy-Austria war allowed me to expand
through a friendless Turkey and the Balkans with no credible
opposition.
It is very difficult to accurately interpret the motives of other
players in the game, especially when the events are not in your immediate
sphere of action. For example, until yesterdayI had no idea that Craig had
started the game trying to get you all to neutralize me. Craig! I thought
you were a friend I had wronged, but now I see your demise was fully
deserved. Doug played a strange game from my perspective and the first few
years left me baffled as to who he was working with (turned out it was
nobody). And Isaac, I felt that you were quite unreasonably wedded to
Germany and illogically fixated on eliminating England (a lengthy process
when Germany was entirely eastward facing) when working with me to seize
German centre was a much better option for you.
As for what's "fair play", I simply refer you to the tag line on the DC
site.
"Diplomacy games may contain lying, stabbing, or deliberately
deceiving communications that may not be suitable for and may pose a hazard
to young children, gullible adults, and small farm
animals."
Simon
Simon Langley-Evans
Professor of Human Nutrition
Deputy Head of School of Biosciences
University of Nottingham
On Aug 21, 2013, at 10:57 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Given the way Italy was playing before this phony mail issue
happened , I doubt it very much , it would have changed anything.
As we are talking on period from Spring 06 to Fall 06. Before
and after that, Italy was playing just the same old game of supporting
Russia without any logical explanation.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 6:47 PM, Douglas Kent <dougray30(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
I will try to write a full EOG later, but let me just state that I
???helped??? Russia in the end game for two reasons...one, because nobody
would write me (which leads to reason #2)...and two, France was
conducting all his Diplomacy with Russia thinking it was me, and I felt
it only right to punish that foolishness by eliminating Germany and
making sure Russia took the win. It wouldn???t have mattered,
because any hope of an E/F/I or F/G/I was destroyed with France writing
to a fake email address...
From: garry b
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 10:38 AM
To: Isaac Zinner ; Craig - Austria Galad ; Doug1 - France Galad ; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com ; kaficek8(at)gmail.com ;
stevieh(at)taosnet.com ; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com ; Cartesian ;
Michael Sims ; Douglas Kent ; Doug2 - France Galad ; Simon Langley-Evans
Subject: RE: DC450 France EOG
As an unaffected party (and DC Moderator), I think it is
only fair to point out several things:
1. Italy (Doug) is a very
established player who also publishes Diplomacy World (an e-zine about
Diplomacy). While it is odd the way things unraveled I can assure you he
is both real and typically a strong, passionate player.
2. With a
third solo it might be time to realize that Simon has some weird Jedi
Mind Trick that enables him to make the best of us make bad Diplomacy
decisions.
3. Having played against him, I can't figure out how
he does it and I too have been frustrated and on the receiving end of a
Simon beat down. I feel your pain Isaac but so far I have seen nothing
that would convince me that he is nothing more than annoyingly
good.
As a player-run community we try to self-police any
shenanigans; typically if they exist they work themselves out because
players have no tolerance for such. I encourage you to join another game
and give it a whirl.
Garry
From: isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013
10:57:59 +0300
Subject: Re: DC450 France EOG
To: cbconnell(at)gmail.com;
diplomacyworld(at)yahoo.com; isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com; freeman_ass(at)yahoo.com; kaficek8(at)gmail.com;
stevieh(at)taosnet.com; dc450(at)diplomaticcorp.com; cartesian.i(at)googlemail.com; mike(at)fuzzylogicllc.net; kielmarch(at)hotmail.com; dougray3o(at)yahoo.com;
dougray30(at)yahoo.com; slangers(at)me.com
Sorry ,forgot to include some.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Isaac Zinner <isaac.zinner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Justin for GMing, you did a great job.
As for the game, It's hard to understand the reason for Russia's
glorifying himself for his Solo.
This was more of a joint Italian / Russian cooperation in order
to get the Solo for Russia.
It does appear as if the Italian was playing for one purpose - to
get a solo for Russia.
Italy conceded his SC (at least 6 SC in 2 turns ) to Russia and
instead of trying to fight Russia had been trying to help him even
more. Go figure.
As it was more of a joint Italian / Russian solo -
congratulations for both Simon and Doug for achieving it.
--Isaac
BTW it turned out that there was a fake email address pretending
to be that of Italy, with which I had made quite a lot of dipping,
till this day I'm not sure if this email address was Russia or Italy
after all.
However this put together with the way Italy was playing made me
wonder if there is an Italian player at
all.
|
| One and a half new variants (Variants) david_e_cohen Aug 16, 11:12 am |
As far as RP goes, yes, eventually I or someone else may code them after they get finalized.
Regarding East Indies, the combined map, I am aware that big variants aren't to everyone's taste, but some like them. Heck, it is still significantly smaller than my Known World 901 variant and some others out there.
P.S. Russia? |
| One and a half new variants (Variants) david_e_cohen Sep 29, 05:12 pm |
Made some revisions to the East Indies map (see the revised image in the first post. Specifically:
1. Arabian Sea and Yemen are now adjacent.
2. Laccadive Sea no longer borders Jaffna, Kandy or Nicobar Sea.
3. Southern Ocean has been combined with Maldive Sea, and also borders Tinnevelly and Pulicat.
4. Andaman Sea has been combined with Nicobar Sea (Tinnevelly no longer borders the combined province).
5. Changmai borders Arakan (Shan no longer borders Pegu).
6. Shan Borders Assam.
7. Ava has been made a Supply Center.
8. Jabalpur borders Bengal (Sambalpur no longer borders Benares).
These changes have been made mainly to increase interaction between the eastern and western Powers.
I am also strongly considering restoring the navigable rivers present in the Maharajah's subvariant, and adding the Mekong as a fourth navigable river, though I will probably not permit river convoys. |
| One and a half new variants (Variants) david_e_cohen Jan 27, 07:40 am |
And here we go, with revisions to both maps based upon the results of the first playtest of Spice Islands.
The biggest change is the addition of a 7th Power (14th, for East Indies), Tondo, in the Philippine Islands. Changes have been made to the surrounding sea provinces as well. Also changed is the location of one of Majapahit's home Supply Centers, and there is a neutral dot, Negara Daha, inland in Borneo.
As always, I really welcome comments, and if anyone wants to run a playtest of either of these variants, please contact me.
|
| One and a half new variants (Variants) FuzzyLogic Jan 27, 07:55 am |
Where did u run it? I would be willing to play in Spice Islands if you were to run one here. 
Some suggestions...
* Remove the black space / Chinese Empire Impassible. The black is wasted space and not appealing. Maybe readjust the edge of your map and shift things lower, or block that off and put a title box in there.
* I said this before... I can't easily tell the small color dots. Having a minor color blindness, I would urge you to shade the zones with patterns and not just the dots. I really can't tell some of them apart and that aspect would be frustrating. I can barely tell the red from the green... it doesn't help that these are neighboring powers.
* Consider making the Philippines and other island spaces bigger, adding playability at the cost of accuracy. |
| One and a half new variants (Variants) david_e_cohen Jan 27, 08:22 am |
The playtest was run in the ACD (Academy of Creative Destruction) forum.
I can't really change the upper right border of the map but, could maybe put a big title box up in the upper right corner. If I was artistic, it would be a nice opportunity, but I am not, so it isn't. 
Pattern shading will come when I (or maybe someone else) codes for RP. That said, I sometimes use two-letter abbreviations for units denoting nationality and unit type rather than the colored symbols, which would certainly be an improvement for you.
As far as enlarging the island spaces, that's possible, if difficult, but the map is plenty big to begin with. |
| One and a half new variants (Variants) david_e_cohen Feb 08, 10:05 am |
A few additional changes, in response to comments from various quarters.
On both maps (see below), East China Sea now borders Eastern Ocean. The change was made to increase fluidity.
In East Indies:
Other than the cosmetic move of the legend/rules box from the southwest to the northeast for cosmetic reasons, the following changes have been made:
Sunda has been combined with Javadvipa.
Mentawai Sea has been divided from Southern Sea, and runs from the newly extended Javadvipa to Kandy.
The province of Sutiya has been created from the northern portion of Assam.
The province of Gartok, expanded and renamed Tibet, now extends eastward and borders Sutiya and Shan.
Kashgar has been renamed Taklamakan.
These changes as a group increase the number of provinces in the area of the intersection of the Spice Islands and Maharajah's subvariant maps, and should therefore increase fluidity and make stalemate lines somewhat more difficult to form.
|
